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Post by tnk on Sept 23, 2009 7:29:08 GMT 3
Ndugu Wanyee, One thing I'll guarantee you is that few (if any at all) will read this long copy-and-paste you've squeezed in here. ... ...it is unaccompanied by any original opinions of the poster - orienting its relevance. This is called dumping - amen
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Post by enigma on Sept 23, 2009 12:21:18 GMT 3
Wanyee's affliction (as Lou Dobbs' and Glenn Beck's) seemed to subside during the summer, but its rearing its ugly head as the depressing winter approaches.
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Post by kamalet on Sept 23, 2009 14:53:06 GMT 3
Well I have read contrary to those that do not want to read it. Whilst I may not agree with all that is written, there are instances that hold true - and the example on south Korea is somewhat true.....could you say as much for Egypt with relation to the rest of Africa expecially those countries like Kenya where we have 'democracy issues'?
Let us stop treating any attact on Obama as if it is the same as that on Raila!
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Post by politicalmaniac on Sept 23, 2009 19:12:05 GMT 3
Ndugu Wanyee, One thing I'll guarantee you is that few (if any at all) will read this long copy-and-paste you've squeezed in here. First, it has nothing to do with the topic herein being discussed and second, it is unaccompanied by any original opinions of the poster - orienting its relevance. This is called dumping - the Chinese are becoming notorious for it......just dropping products helter-skelter everywhere to consumers....disregarding rules. While most here agree with your stance against America's imperialism in Africa, it would be in order if you would just start a seperate thread just for that important topic....or at least take it to your "Obama Deception" thread. Lets stay in topic and stop cross-posting, you've done an excellent job in maintaining the Titanium thread strictly for titanium and mining issues...and I can guarantee you will not see other JUKWAAists posting Harambee Stars soccer issues in that thread. Last but not least, let's agree that Obama was elected by Americans to serve American interests, not African interests. Africans have their own leaders who should be fighting for African interests. This thread was about the possible meeting between one such African leader (Raila) and Obama....which a misguided African diplomat (from the same country) was sabotaging for partisan & petty reasons. I agree Job I wish a summary for dummies (me) was provided for this extremely long article, that doesnt mesh with the intents of this thread.
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Post by kenyamoja on Sept 23, 2009 22:58:42 GMT 3
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Post by wanyee on Sept 23, 2009 23:11:51 GMT 3
Ndugu Job. Thank you for your response. Trust me - you do not need to remind me that Obama is not here to serve the interests of Africans. I was simply echoing some of Johns' sentiments: "The Obama luncheon is just a useless gathering of corrupt and rudderless African leaders and there is nothing to be gained from it".--- Now, my question to you is, what is the point of such meetings, particularly in view of the contents of the following articles (which I already posted above): Barrack Obama’s three misdeeds in Africawww.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14467Obama And U.S. Policy Towards Africawww.pambazuka.org/en/category/features/53257Africa: U.S. Military Holds War Games on Nigeria, Somalia www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14783
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Post by genius on Sept 24, 2009 10:40:14 GMT 3
For some reason, it appears Obama has been convinced to avoid Raila like the plague. That's why he keeps playing cat and mouse games with him mara inviting him then disinviting, then a it appears they'll be together at a dinner, then apparently, Obama is actually holding a parallel dinner which somehow nobody knew about two days ago.
It's not worth the trouble, there's no point Raila seeking to meet Obama. The guy just doesn't want to be seen with Raila.
If however the US government think they will influence things in Kenya and somehow prop up someone who will be president of Kenya in 2012, they are dreaming. It won't happen.
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Post by enigma on Sept 24, 2009 13:54:48 GMT 3
Its the same case for Gordon Brown. I think the he doesnt want to associate with leaders who are beleagured or something.
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Post by denno on Sept 24, 2009 14:23:27 GMT 3
Wanaa Jukwaa Raila met Obama yesterday at the waldorf Astoria where they were both staying. He was accompanied by his wife. we might never know what they talked about. I don't know the significance of the meeting nor the outcome, nut like MOI used to say whether they had lunch or not will not put Ugali on our table
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Post by job on Sept 24, 2009 16:35:33 GMT 3
Its the same case for Gordon Brown. I think the he doesnt want to associate with leaders who are beleagured or something. Gordon Brown hosted Raila at Downing Street last year. Regarding Kenya, the Brits have a very different policy from the US. As for beleagured leaders, the world knows them. They are in fact the ones who opt to isolate themselves in their countries or regions. They choose not to appear at such global events on their own violition. As for Obama, it is clear he doesn't want to breach protocol advised from his own State Department - heavily influenced by opinions of respective Ambassadors (Ogego & Ranneberger). This is one example to prove that an Ambassador is actually powerful. Ambassadors heavily influence the state positions of their Foreign Ministries or State Department in the case of the US. This is what Raila should have seen and moved on. If it were me, I wouldn't insist or bother trying to sidestep both Kenya's Foreign Ministry and the State Department. If the Foreign Ministry thinks its more important to keep the PM away from an African discussion on development, whether for politics or policy, that's a decision the PM can later ask the Ministry to explain to Kenyans. To avoid breaching advice from his State Department, Obama would rather meet Raila in private (away from the glare of cameras) at Waldorf (per denno) than having any formal or open meet. To me, that's more dangerous were a paparazi to bump into them - it might create the impression (both to the State Department & Kenya) that there's in fact something to hide. Coming back to the powers of the Ambassador. The two 'blue-eyed' Kenyan Ambassadors, Rateng' Ogego and Muburi Muita (who must be patting themselves in their backs for a job well done in keeping the PM away from Obama) - organized a meeting of the PM and Kenyans at a New York hotel on Tuesday. It was yet another fiasco (per my source who attended). She tells me the hall was small, there were no chairs, and people were kept standing for at least four hours. Nevertheless, more than a hundred Kenyans withstood the punishment from the mighty Ambassadors and listened to the PM's address and asked all manners of questions (concerns) regarding Kenya. To avoid muscle pulls and cramps, my friend and other women who wore high-heeled shoes had to remove them - they said ahsanteni sana mabwana Ambassadors!Other attendants besides the PM were Wetangula (Foreign Affairs) - who was said to be very arrogant to questioners; Assistant Minister Khaniri (a former NJ resident); North Horr MP Chachu ( a former DC resident); and ODM nominated MP Musa Sirma; and another MP called Ngugi.The PM apparently explained the absence of Ministers John Michuki and Beth Mugo, who were held up in respective official evening sessions for their line Ministries. Before being whisked away by secret service to a dinner with Netherland's head of state, the PM addressed most relevant topics including the Mau & conservation efforts, current drought & famine, the Kazi kwa Vijana programme, etc. There were apparently no news-breaking statements. and by the way...the bugger at the US Embassy Nairobi says ati; US makes Kenya sanctions threat breaking news
The US has threatened to impose travel bans on 15 senior Kenyan officials if they fail to support the country's "reform agenda".
Michael Ranneberger, the US ambassador in Nairobi, says letters have been sent to the officials urging them to back reforms and oppose the use of violence.
In recent months the US has criticised Kenya for failing to investigate deadly violence after the 2007 election.
Some 1,300 people died, but officials have resisted calls for a tribunal. by the way..Ranneberger's 'reform' is not synonymous with the reforms Kenyans want...take great note and caution. Ranneberger's reforms mean liberalization of all sectors, less government regulation, privatization of everything, and purchase of everything American (from food - maize, GM crop technology, and all other technologies)
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Post by enigma on Sept 24, 2009 18:00:41 GMT 3
Job,
I meant Obama doesnt want to meet Gordon Brown. That was the story as of last night Europe time.
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Post by denno on Sept 24, 2009 18:13:04 GMT 3
Job the actually explanation given for Michuki was that he had had a long day hence could not make it. I did not find Wetangula to be arrogant at all. He was curt and to the point and he attempted to sieve through the questions to avoid duplicity.
The PM did take notice of the pain most women were going through with their shoes, but also there were a lot of elderly Kenyans who were forced to stand. The PM admonished the organizers and requested that they have chairs for the wanainchi for any future meetings.
All in all it was a good session with no breaking news as you indicated.
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Post by kalapapla on Sept 24, 2009 23:03:25 GMT 3
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Post by tnk on Sept 24, 2009 23:14:59 GMT 3
hmmhmm looks like the DN was right, that is not a face - to - face it looks more like a side by side to me its not only a pity but a big shame like adongo, job and other jukwaaists have said, the media are trying so hard to reduce kenyans to this very juvenile stance of nita-enda, huta pitia hapa, thereby relegating opportunity to achieve far much more to the periphery. shameful, to the extent that meaningful far reaching discussions beneficial to kenyans were perhaps shelved. aiiish
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Post by phil on Sept 24, 2009 23:38:39 GMT 3
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Post by job on Sept 24, 2009 23:39:26 GMT 3
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Post by wanyee on Sept 24, 2009 23:49:58 GMT 3
How do we reconcile some of the issues raised in the articles I posted above, with “meaningful far reaching discussions beneficial to Kenyans”, not to mention Africans in general?
I have mentioned some of these issues in my response to Kamalet below:
Ndugu Kamalet,
I seemed to find more in those articles.
What about the historical / present role of the United States in the underdevelopment of Africa (via international financial institutions such as the World Bank and the IMF), and the ongoing militarization (including AFRICOM) in order to facilitate the plunder of Africa’s natural resources (in the name of “fighting terrorism”)?
I do not know enough about Egypt’s political economy to make an informed comment, but would venture to say that the analogy of South Korean and Kenya can more or less be applied to the case of Egypt in relation to the rest of Africa.
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Post by okhunyanye on Sept 25, 2009 2:15:37 GMT 3
Kalapapla, Miss your gem postings of yore. On a more serious note though, if the Daily Nation were a reputable organization, someone would have tendered in his/her resignation like yesterday, not because of the initial breaking news about the 'disinvite,' but because of the malicious second story about a face to face meeting between the two leaders. I guess, though, that it will be rapture before this materializes.
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Post by job on Sept 25, 2009 2:41:18 GMT 3
"Watu wasimame" says Ogego to those wishing to listen to RAO. This was a propagandist warning to discourage future enthusiasts who throng RAOs meetings. Here is a picture of Kenyans standing like herd at the Helmsley Hotel, NY, to listen to the PM & delegation. Kenyans in NY listening to Ida OdingaWhat a big shame! Then comes Ogego's backstabbing partner - the Daily Nation. The best they do today (even after being caught trying to mislead Kenyans) is merely posting a photo of the Obamas and Odingas at the bottom of their web edition with no accompanying story. Bure Kabisa! Odinga, Michuki and World Bank Director Zoeller
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Post by tnk on Sept 25, 2009 2:43:50 GMT 3
How do we reconcile some of the issues raised in the articles I posted above, with “meaningful far reaching discussions beneficial to Kenyans”, not to mention Africans in general? have swallowed the bait, attempting to digest. if i live through it, will respond shortly ;D
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Post by tiskie on Sept 25, 2009 3:20:53 GMT 3
How do we reconcile some of the issues raised in the articles I posted above, with “meaningful far reaching discussions beneficial to Kenyans”, not to mention Africans in general? have swallowed the bait, attempting to digest. if i live through it, will respond shortly ;D The statehouse bells are ringing, Ogego, Wetangula, Michuki are having sleepless night.. the question they are being asked is "how did they let that meeting happen happen on their watch.. Raila better fly on another flight... remember the MP's who after flying in the same plan with one evil being ended up 6ft under.. Our brother better even work back home... the poisonous fangs are out full force... Read the Daily nation carefully... you will get the drift...
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Post by kenyamoja on Sept 25, 2009 3:21:50 GMT 3
Given the silliness exhibited by both Kenyan daily newspapers, is it beyond the realm of possibility that this "meeting" as described by the EAS did not happen? And yes I do believe that the two met as evident from the photo but what if it was a photo op and nothing else? I'm personally not in the camp trying to undermine the PM's every move, but the fact is that the truth to this whole saga lies somewhere in the middle. This was a non-story which the two papers (fronting their respective political camps) have blown out of proportions rendering their credibility to new lows.
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Post by okhunyanye on Sept 25, 2009 3:22:52 GMT 3
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Post by tiskie on Sept 25, 2009 3:37:40 GMT 3
Given the silliness exhibited by both Kenyan daily newspapers, is it beyond the realm of possibility that this "meeting" as described by the EAS did not happen? And yes I do believe that the two met as evident from the photo but what if it was a photo op and nothing else? I'm personally not in the camp trying to undermine the PM's every move, but the fact is that the truth to this whole saga lies somewhere in the middle. This was a non-story which the two papers (fronting their respective political camps) have blown out of proportions rendering their credibility to new lows. Ha!!ha!!ha!! nice try... they met they discussed and conquered, even with orders from Statehouse, Daily nation, ogego, Michuki and wetagula campaign to stop them meeting didn't pan out ;D pole sana... DAILY NATION HEADLINES1. Kenya PM dropped from Obama luncheonNew York-based Kenyan ambassador to the UN Zachary Muburi-Muita told the Nation on Saturday night that the State Department contacted him on Friday to “disinvite” Mr Odinga from the September 22 luncheon with President Obama in New York for African leaders.
The ambassador last Monday confirmed to the Nation that he had received an invitation letter for the PM to attend the luncheon. A dispatch to the Foreign Affairs ministry from Kenya’s Ambassador to Washington, Mr Peter Ogego, seen by the Nation confirmed the cancellation.2. Kenya missing as Obama listens to Africa’s needs Several African leaders briefed President Barack Obama about their countries’ needs at a luncheon on Tuesday from which Kenya was excluded. Prime Minister Raila Odinga was initially invited to attend the event at New York’s posh Waldorf Astoria Hotel, but was subsequently disinvited by the US State Department.
3. Raila may not meet Obama face-to-face Prime Minister Raila Odinga and United States President Barack Obama will attend two meetings together in New York, but are unlikely to meet face-to-face.AND LOOK CLOSELY AND CAREFULLY!! HERE THEY ARE... AND THEY TALKED AND TALKED AND TALKED.... ALA ;D ;D
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Post by Titchaz on Sept 25, 2009 4:28:02 GMT 3
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