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Post by nok on Dec 22, 2010 22:02:48 GMT 3
www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Kenya%20Parliament%20votes%20to%20reject%20The%20Hague/-/1064/1077336/-/kju6svz/-/index.htmlKenyan MPs on Wednesday night rallied behind a motion seeking to withdraw Kenya from the Rome Statute. Kalonzo : State backs bid to quit ICC Kenya MPs fight to kill Hague trials The MPs fully supported the motion by Chepalungu MP Isaac Ruto for Kenya to cease being a signatory to the statute which creates the International Criminal Court. Only Gichugu MP Martha Karua disagreed. And during the debate on Wednesday night, MPs poured vitriol on the ICC and its chief Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo. They expressed solidarity with the six people named as perpetrators of the post election violence. They resolved that cases arising from the chaos be handled by local judicial systems. One day history will be written and I hope the author will use evidence that Jukwaa has been accurately collecting.
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Post by toddo on Dec 22, 2010 22:07:23 GMT 3
Very sad day for our country! Our leaders cannot put their heads together and be sober. Only Martha Karua voted against the motion. She has renewed my respect for her principles. Does this mean that (if) we have Kenyan judges in the Hague such as Justice Joyce Aluoch, they too will not be part of the ICC? Too many questions in my head at the moment, I just need to read the Rome Statute again.
Kenyan MPs never cease to amaze me - Shame on them for letting down their own countrymen.
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Post by gachquota on Dec 22, 2010 22:17:27 GMT 3
www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Kenya%20Parliament%20votes%20to%20reject%20The%20Hague/-/1064/1077336/-/kju6svz/-/index.htmlKenyan MPs on Wednesday night rallied behind a motion seeking to withdraw Kenya from the Rome Statute. Kalonzo : State backs bid to quit ICC Kenya MPs fight to kill Hague trials The MPs fully supported the motion by Chepalungu MP Isaac Ruto for Kenya to cease being a signatory to the statute which creates the International Criminal Court. Only Gichugu MP Martha Karua disagreed. And during the debate on Wednesday night, MPs poured vitriol on the ICC and its chief Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo. They expressed solidarity with the six people named as perpetrators of the post election violence. They resolved that cases arising from the chaos be handled by local judicial systems. One day history will be written and I hope the author will use evidence that Jukwaa has been accurately collecting. God will protect da kantry. |
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Post by tnk on Dec 22, 2010 22:19:26 GMT 3
these knee jerk reactions will surely come back to bite the butt, it seems no one has learnt anything (among the leaders that is)
essentially the plan here which is quite simple is to generate as much confusion as possible such that no real progress is ever made on either the STK, TJRC or ICC and related processes. a simple matter of not only moving goalposts but redesigning them at every step
the next step will be beginning the process to amend the constitution to reflect these wishes. since they are aware the public mood will be against these wishes, they will have to contain it within the house and before elections are called. therefore any impediment will be quickly disposed off.
these guys are basically thugs (who are drunk) with too much power in their hands.
will need the hansard account of what transpired (hopefully that will not be compromised either)
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Post by adongo23456 on Dec 22, 2010 22:27:36 GMT 3
This is the greatest news I have seen in a very long time. Since the Referendum anyways. These suckers just shot themselves in their heads. Pathetic. Ocampo is laughing his head off. He now knows he was absolutely right to charge these guys and the whole world now can fully rally behind him.
Exepect an avalanche of response. The citizens are going to be in a shock. Just earlier today they saw the same M.Ps reject the Ouko report seeking to have the killers investigated and held to account.
If takes them 20 years to still be running in circles, unable and unwilling to resolve the case of cabinet minister who was brutally murdered in State House according to the report how long would it take them to deal with the killing of some 1,300 vinyangarikas who are nobody in their estimation. Try 1,300 years. And they think Kenyans are going to just sit around and wait. Nope. If Ocampo ever needed the support of Kenyans, now he has it in full.
Secondly the international community is going to be enraged with this stupidity that just happened in parliament. Ocampo needed their full support. Now he has it. The chorus of condemnations that is coming our way is going to be defeaning.
Our civil society groups who went napping after the big victories of the last couple of months have been kicked in the groins by kina Ruto and Muchuki. That is not a good thing. Those guys are dangerous when they are awake and working. Noe they have no choice.
The pressure now shifts to Kibaki to see whether he will sign the bill into law or not. If he doesn't he is in trouble with the forces of impunity right from State House to Gatundu. Ngina would personally strangle him. If he signs it he becomes the joke of the world and Kenya would face some major sanctions mainly from the EU and Kibaki shall be approaching the Bashir status. That is his problem.
Then even if Kibaki signs the nonsense into law, Kenya has to formally seek to withdraw from the Rome Statute. That is a nightmare.
And then we have the constitutional matters which may even require changing the constitution otherwise this whole thing is unconstitutional. That is coming.
The sad part for the M.Ps is that even after all that mess, Ocampo is still coming for his toys. Cases before the ICC cannot be withdrawn. Those who drafted these laws new the scumbags will run as soon as they are caught. So ng'weee. You are going nowhere. You have just given Kenyans, the international cpmmunity and Ocampo a ton of new fire. It is coming.
The only resort is for the accused to refuse to cooperate citing the new law. That will make Ocampo's work ten times easier since he will just deal with the judges. Once he convinces them and arrest warrants are issued the fellas have to look for Kabuga for help.
Nope impunity has not won today, impunity has lost big time. This is great. We warned them to be careful what they ask for. They didn't listen. Now we have them exactly where we need them. They have scored in their own goal when they were supposed to make a goal kick and try their luck. The defender(s) just turned around and kaboom into their own goal. It doesn't get any gooder than that if you are the opposing team.
OK they are trying to take us back to the dark ages, but we are going to whip them silly in the dark, they will be begging for light to save them.
adongo
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Post by phil on Dec 22, 2010 22:31:16 GMT 3
the tenth parliament started off well passing important legislation like the NARA and even the National Land Policy.
but it is now apparent money has been used to corrupt MPs and the work of Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto is bearing fruit. They now have the express support Kibaki because of Muthaura's imminent ICC summons.
It is indeed a huge step backwards for this country. Kibaki is the curse that Kenya has to live with. This motion is nothing but his handiwork.
The next thing these people will do is that they may well vote to return Kenya to a one party state!
Bure kabisa hawa ma fisi.
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Post by akinyi2005 on Dec 22, 2010 22:33:43 GMT 3
BERJESUS!....@#$$%....other than the drug lords expose' was this the only other business transacted today? what happens to the more important issues ie CRA and CIC now that our dear mps went ahead and rewarded their hard work with an indefinite recess?
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Post by adongo23456 on Dec 22, 2010 22:37:16 GMT 3
BERJESUS!....@#$$%....other than the drug lords expose' was this the only other business transacted today? what happens to the more important issues ie CRA and CIC now that our dear mps went ahead and rewarded their hard work with an indefinite recess? akinyi, They also spared a little time to reject the Ouko Report. Obviously this was to defend his killers. 20 years and counting. It was a very busy day for the merchants of death and darkness in Kenya. They are going nowhere. That I can say without fear of contradiction. |
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Post by reporter911 on Dec 22, 2010 22:37:52 GMT 3
NO SO FAST.. DON'T THEY HAVE TO SEEK CHANGES IN THE NEW CONSTITUTION TO GET OUT OF HAGUE? OR AM I CONFUSED??
NOW KENYANS MUST MOBILIZE AND GET ALL THESE THIEVES AND THUGS OUT OF OFFICE INCLUDING KIBAKI AND RAILA!!! I'M ROYALLY PISSED OFF!! HOW DARE THEY! IMPUNITY MUST BE STOPPED NOW BY KENYANS... WE DO NOT NEED ROTTEN, CORRUPT MP'S AND THE 2 MASQUERADERS TO RUN THIS COUNTRY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!
HON MARTHA KARUA FOR PRESIDENCY
Here is Martha Karua defending the rights of KENYANS! I SAY KENYANS MUST DEMAND A REFERENDUM ON ICC IT HAS GO TO THE REFERENDUM TO KENYANS NO KIBAKI OR RAILA CAN STRIKE OUT ICC BEFORE FACING KENYANS WITH A REFERENDUM.. THESE THIEVES... MURDERERS, RAPISTS, DRUG LORDS LORDS OF IMPUNITY
WHO TOLD THEM THEY CAN DICTATE TO KENYANS? ALA!!
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Post by adongo23456 on Dec 22, 2010 22:52:27 GMT 3
Folks,
One more thing. They can now forget about those summons. Given the events of the last few weeks coupled with the great Christmas Gift the M.Ps have given Kenyans it is going to be straight up arrest warrants. And then we can start chasing the Kabugas of Kenya. I am thinking of investing in some GPS systems and the google earth maps etc and some gadgets to help track these guys down and make deals with Ocampo.
This time I need to work on my machette skills, the old faithful rungu may not be enough. If need be I will just pack some heat. What teh heck. These are dangerous people we are dealing with. Do they (ICC) pay people if you catch any of these guys.
We need some bounty cash and as soon as the ICC indicts these guys we are on their case 24/7. I have just placed a call with makmende, the action super hero. If anybody sees him tell him to call adongo immediately. There is work to be done. These could be big. Of course if the kabugas of Kenya want to talk, we are open to that. I mean we all need food on our tables. But here we are not talking some change. We want it all and I mean ALL.
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Post by phil on Dec 22, 2010 23:07:51 GMT 3
Folks, One more thing. They can now forget about those summons. Given the events of the last few weeks coupled with the great Christmas Gift the M.Ps have given Kenyans it is going to be straight up arrest warrants. And then we can start chasing the Kabugas of Kenya. I am thinking of investing in some GPS system and some gadgets to help track these guys down and make deals with Ocampo. Do they pay people if you catch any of these guys. We need some bounty cash and as soon as the ICC indicts these guys we are on their case 24/7. I have just placed a call with makmende, the action super hero. If anybody sees him tell himto call adongo immediately. There is work to be done. These could be big. Of course if the kabugas of Kenya want to talk, we are open to that. I mean we all need food on our tables. But here we are not talking some change. We want it all and I mean ALL. Adongo, How does this idiotic motion relate to the new constitution? |
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Post by akinyi2005 on Dec 22, 2010 23:12:01 GMT 3
Adongo,
Ouko must be turning in his grave. Someone like Saitoti trashed the report just because his poisoning incident wasn't mentioned anywhere! I tell you trying to keep up with all that has been happening in Kenya is both depressing and exhausting. What next, now that that the thieves, murderers, drug barons etc have joined hands in solidarity?
Meanwhile, duly elected went to sleep fofofo, behaving like promulgating the constitution was an end in itself. saying that we're in a quagmire doesn't quite capture the gravity of the situation. Interesting times ahead.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Dec 22, 2010 23:24:41 GMT 3
I did not click on the DN link.
So all MPs except Martha voted for this bastardized law? How many actually voted?
I gotta talk to my MP and see whats up
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Post by gulavi on Dec 22, 2010 23:27:55 GMT 3
Ha ha ha As I said, the mission is to kill ICC and then the Local Tribunal. Very Clever  and good trial. What next as they try killing Local Tribunal. The best saying for this is that, When it rains, mbuzi,kuku, etc.. seek the same shelter, this is what has/is happened, not strange at all, its the human nature Ongalo Makokha |
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Post by adongo23456 on Dec 22, 2010 23:30:15 GMT 3
Folks, One more thing. They can now forget about those summons. Given the events of the last few weeks coupled with the great Christmas Gift the M.Ps have given Kenyans it is going to be straight up arrest warrants. And then we can start chasing the Kabugas of Kenya. I am thinking of investing in some GPS system and some gadgets to help track these guys down and make deals with Ocampo. Do they pay people if you catch any of these guys. We need some bounty cash and as soon as the ICC indicts these guys we are on their case 24/7. I have just placed a call with makmende, the action super hero. If anybody sees him tell himto call adongo immediately. There is work to be done. These could be big. Of course if the kabugas of Kenya want to talk, we are open to that. I mean we all need food on our tables. But here we are not talking some change. We want it all and I mean ALL. Adongo, How does this idiotic motion relate to the new constitution? phil, There is something in the new constitution (I will look for the section), stating that international laws ratified by Kenya are part of the Kenyan constitution. Since the Rome statute is already ratified it is part of our constitution. So I would assume that we need to amend the constitution if indeed Kenya is getting out of the Rome Statute. That was Orengo's argument yesterday. I do not think that our constitution anticipated that we will be getting out of ratified international conventions. I think they are going to argue that once the Ratification process is complete then the ICC obligations are no longer part of Kenyan laws. The truth is that even if everything went smoothly for them that will take a few years from now. During that time Kenya is still part of the ICC and has obligations do cooperate with ICC. So nothing changes. After the UN accepts the application the country still remains hooked to the ICC for a full year. So say they finally get the UN to accept a withdrawal say in August 2011, we will be hooked to ICC untill August 2012. In any event even after August 2012(in this example) if there are any cases being handled by the ICC that started before the ratification was withdrawn, they will go on until finished. But expect a legal challenge on the matter very soon. Also the AG has to advise the president before he signs the act into law. If the AG points out that it is unconstitutional then Kibaki has to send it back. In any event the Kenyan government has to formally write to the UN do disengage from the ICC. This is going to be a long drawn battle and by the time it is over the Hague six will be warming their cells. As far as the Hague xis is concerned, this act is useless even if Kibaki signs it into law. But for the dignity of the country and our future as a civilized nation this is terrible. But the great news is that Kenyans can see for themselves that when the corner the merchants of impunity they will do the unthinkable. If it was up to the Isaac Rutos and John Muchukis of Kenya they would love to take Kenya back to one party state. Things are just too hot for them. I find it strange that none of the other M.Ps said much. It would appear to me that some people decided if these folkswant more rope to hang themselves give it to them. This is the worst case scenario for them. |
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Post by gachquota on Dec 22, 2010 23:31:41 GMT 3
Ha ha ha As I said, the mission is to kill ICC and then the Local Tribunal. Very Clever and good trial. What next as they try killing Local Tribunal. The best saying for this is that, When it rains, mbuzi,kuku, etc.. seek the same shelter, this is what has/is happened, not strange at all, its the human nature Ongalo Makokha U captured da mood very well. |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Dec 22, 2010 23:41:43 GMT 3
And where was Orengo and Kajwang and the rest of the ODM brigade?
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Post by akinyi2005 on Dec 22, 2010 23:44:05 GMT 3
just realized that the CIC and CRA nominees were approved. still, impunity carried the day. The urgency with which this motion was dealt with makes me wonder what these clowns have up their sleeves all in the name of protecting uhuru and muthaura. Am sure we're in for more surprises.
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Post by roughrider on Dec 22, 2010 23:54:56 GMT 3
I think the title here, like the Nation's Online by-line 'Parliament Withdraws Kenya from the ICC' are wrong.
This is a motion that has passed. It is not a bill (like the American one popularly known as the 'Hague Invasion Act'. Motions usually just call for some action or the other and most are not acted upon. This particular motion calls for the government to take steps to repeal the International Crimes Act. The motion itself does not constitute a repeal of the act!
The question we must ask ourselves is whether the government will act on this motion. I think not. This realization - of how harmless the motion was - is what allowed it to pass through. It just helped the idiots to ventilate and think that they had done something for their 'brothers'. Having passed all pending business with lightning speed, parliament proceeds on an extended recess. By the time they come back, cooler heads will have prevailed.
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Post by adongo23456 on Dec 22, 2010 23:57:24 GMT 3
And where was Orengo and Kajwang and the rest of the ODM brigade? They decided to give these guys enough rope to hang themselves. Check the list of those who supported the motion. They are less than 15 and they are some of the most vile and uncouth characters ever to step in bunge. The other guys must have simply left Bunge knowing very well that the lunatics they have left behind will grab the rope and ties it neatly around the necks of the Hague six. I had a feeling yesterday that something like that was going to happen. People figured it is may be better to let these chaps expose themselves than to keep baby sitting. Be careful what you ask for. Be very careful. The smarter ones among the Hague six know this is terrible news. But dumb ones may have celebrations today. This whole move turns everything against the Hague six even if it goes nowhere which is very likely. RR,I think the other M.Ps found a way to kill two birds with a small stone. Let the chaps make a mess of themselves then after that they pass the CIC and CRA and go jumping in celeberation after achieving less than nothing. There are many ways to skin a cat. Raila always says that to his supporters. This was a very neat way to do so. adongo |
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Post by phil on Dec 23, 2010 0:01:15 GMT 3
Adongo, could you be referring to Chapter 2 Art 5 and 6 of the constitution - Supremacy of the Constitution - which says".........
(5) The general rules of international law shall form part of the law of Kenya.
(6) Any treaty or convention ratified by Kenya shall form part of the law of Kenya under this Constitution........"? |
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Post by kipfirimbi on Dec 23, 2010 0:09:09 GMT 3
Folks... i have said it before the mount kenya mafia is going to do some amazing things in the next two years in the name of protecting impunity read uhuru wa ngina... these are part of the schemes and we shouldnt be at all shocked, they are going to apply all the tricks in and out of the book to do anything possible to scuttle both ICC and the local tribunal whether they succeed is another thing but lets expect more drama unfold these are kids plays to what these guys can do......history tells us that by wanting to bring down this country at all cost to steal power means nothing is impossible to them.. hopefully Ocampo is watching and learning the kind of characters he is dealing with.Na bado...and expect more folks...
But i wondor if this thread header is right... and yes impunity is going to fight back but i dont think they have won yet....and i doubt if they will.
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Post by roughrider on Dec 23, 2010 0:17:01 GMT 3
Adongo, could you be referring to Chapter 2 Art 5 and 6 of the constitution - Supremacy of the Constitution - which says".........
(5) The general rules of international law shall form part of the law of Kenya.
(6) Any treaty or convention ratified by Kenya shall form part of the law of Kenya under this Constitution........"? Phil, I think many people - including prominent lawyers are confusing two broad concepts. These provisions help us conform to international law. However withdrawing from a specific international treaty is not synonymous with withdrawing from the general rules of international law especially when the said withdrawal is carried out according to international law. This means that by withdrawing from the ICC we are not withdrawing from the general rules of international law including the crimes that the ICC deals with - genocide, torture, crimes against humanity etc.This means that we do not need to amend our constitution to quit the ICC. We only need to repeal the relevant Act and 'unratify' our involvement with the ICC, so to speak. It would take a year at least to withdraw from the ICC and such withdrawal will have nothing to do with pre-existing cases. Having said that - such a move would have consequences that do not include a withdrawal of the Kenyan case or any illusions of non cooperation on our part as some MPs are dreaming. The ICC and its prosecutor will see this for what it is: impunity fighting back and harden their positions. |
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Post by politicalmaniac on Dec 23, 2010 0:17:52 GMT 3
kipfirimbi
The amazing thing is that we know they have done it, we know they have the muscle to do it, we know they will do it, and yet there is nothing we can do to stop it.
Wow.
Just wow? eh?
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Post by adongo23456 on Dec 23, 2010 0:25:29 GMT 3
Adongo, could you be referring to Chapter 2 Art 5 and 6 of the constitution - Supremacy of the Constitution - which says".........
(5) The general rules of international law shall form part of the law of Kenya.
(6) Any treaty or convention ratified by Kenya shall form part of the law of Kenya under this Constitution........"? Exactly. Also notice that RR has pointed out that the Daily Nation heading is grossly misleading. Parliament cannot pull Kenya from the ICC. They can only pass a motion to ask the government of Kenya to do so. That act has to be signed into law. Then the executive has to write to the UN asking to pull Kenya out. If the president refuses to sign the Act, the matter ends there. If the president signs the act into law and refuses to actually write to the UN seeking to remove Kenya from the ICC, the only thing any M.P can do is to take the matter to court and claim the president is not following the law. I think within State House there will be pressure for Kibaki to sign it. Muthaura is hararing there day and night. Poor thing, he must be very tired. Today Michuki was saying he cannot imagine Muthaura raping somebody. That is how far out of touch these people are regarding the Hague. They think unless you physically raped or killed somebody, you are innocent. Anyway Kibaki may sign it. Where it goes from there is hard to figure out. Kibaki going to the UN to get a nod to pull Kenya out of the ICC will not happen. The consequences are just too grave for him and he knows it will not help his two friends in the pickle. This was just some emotional outburst for a few ignorant M.Ps to jump around but it is going to do a lot of damage. |
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and good trial. What next as they try killing Local Tribunal. The best saying for this is that, When it rains, mbuzi,kuku, etc.. seek the same shelter, this is what has/is happened, not strange at all, its the human nature