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Post by kaburwo on Mar 27, 2011 13:11:39 GMT 3
Jukwaa, All I have been hearing is that WKR (forget about the borrowed name Samoei) was framed by ODMers. What is it that points to ODM as the mastermind behind the framing of these guys? Burning his own grass-thatched house for the promise of an elusive golden palace, is WKR about to be destitute? Why did he WALK, not get drugged and dragged, into an elaborate PNU trap to isolate and finish him? Reminds me of that old story of three bulls and the lion. Sample these. It is now emerging that WKR's new-found buddies may have played a more pivotal role in his indictment, than in their pretentious 'salvation'. Let us start with the basics. The Daily Nation today screams "How spy agency helped to nail the Ocampo Six". Then it says this in B&W. Question is this: Is the NSIS director general Major-Gen Michael Gichangi a Luo? Is he an ODM member? Ocampo is relying on the evidence bacause, quite understandably Where does Raila Odinga and the ODM come in to implicate the O-6 in the violence? Who heads the security organs in Kenya, does anybody need tutoring on free lessons regarding who owns the instruments of violence and investigation (of violence) in Jamhuri? Did anybody expect the NSIS not to do its professional job? NO. They are paid to serve Kenya. If in the course of that service they provide intelligence, which is consumed by a sleepy PORK, and which ends up being abused rather than being used to ensure the safety of Kenyans and their properties, who is to blame: the intelligence gatherer or the exclusive (even reclusive) consumer? The Waki Commission also reveals that the NSIS collected information on the planning of violence in Naivasha by Mungiki members and politicians, at local and national level. Furthermore, Bravely, the NSIS even informs the consumer that something was happening at State House. Wow In a January 2008 report, the Gichangi’s (NOT ODM's) men said that “some senior Kalenjin personalities were funding ODM activists to organise youth for violence”. God bless the NSIS. So let us examine the Standard a little and its report of a likely (well I'd say imminent) fall-out between WKR and UMK. Wait a minute. Who incriminated WKR, ODM or PNU? Well, the inconvenient truth is that it was ah em: UMK! Uhuru Kenyatta is alleged to have given ICC damning evidence on William RutoThe Standard screams Uhuru and Ruto fallout imminent as ICC beckonsOuchAnd then this, which to me shows why Kalooser has been playing latter-day saviour. Did Kalonzo know that his appointee to the communication ministry (name with-held) gave information to the investigators detailing sms messages? Which ministry is that again? Oh my goodness.I guess there is a Luo minister from PNU in the RVP, right?What is the effect of these? Midiwo sums up the frustrations of the ODM party Then to this. Is Kibaki saving face by building a buffer around himself to protect any image left? Apparently, WKR is suddenly walking into cold reception at SH shortly after failing to FIX Raila.OuchSo, Ruto left ODM a long time ago? The fall-out, oh my. Fare thee well UMK and WKR. It might help to take turns at the ICC. If UMK really wants to help WKR, he should take the witness stand at the ICC and repudiate the incriminating evidence he gave. He can as well say he was under the influence of a narcotic. Whichever way, he (UMK) holds the key to setting Ruto free. Question is, would UMK save WKR's skin? In return for what?
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Post by commes on Mar 27, 2011 13:26:46 GMT 3
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Post by mzee on Mar 27, 2011 14:12:33 GMT 3
Kaburwo,I have more than once said on this very board that Uhuru and Ruto might end up witnessing against each other. I did not have the facts that have been presented here today but it was obvious to me that Uhuru/Kibaki/Michuki/Muthaura/Karua axis must have been deeply involved in fixing WKR. I wrote thus "The interesting thing is that Uhuru and Ruto might even end up witnessing against each other". Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi board=general&action=display&thread=5190#ixzz1HnOu36DI Now facts are coming out and these later day friends will turn into hardcore enemies. I also predicted that all the moves against ICC are being done by the "government" on behalf of Uhuru not Ruto. Now that this is dead the PANU guys are looking for other ways of saving their preferred son from facing Ocampo and even if he faces Ocampo they would like him to get off. There would be no better way of doing this than blaming it all on Ruto. Raila would have fitted the bill best but as we know the man was not part of any criminal activities during the PEV. Ruto had not seen this coming and he won’t until the sh%t hits the fan. By then it might be a little too late. Gumo said something very important. He did point out that they (ODM members) are WKRs best witnesses yet he has abandoned them. The PANU side of the divide can only witness against and not for WKR. But you all know that WKR takes himself to be some kind of superman who will have all the right answers that will leave none other than Raila on the ropes. I think that he has another thing coming. The PANU thugs are plotting against WKR as we talk. Obviously Kibaki will only sparingly meet him hence forth because he has drained WKR of all info. It’s clear to me that one of the reasons PANU has closely paid WKR attention is their obsession with getting something to implicate RAO. Since Ruto was in the pentagon, they thought that he had the information they needed to pin some heinous crimes on RAO, lakini wapi. He has tried to wrestle RAO to the ground without success. I’m predicting that WKR might end up worse off at The Hague than his buddy Uhuru. It now looks as if Kibaki/PANU/Uhuru axis is going to sacrifice WKR. They tricked him into abandoning his real friends in ODM, they are now running away from him at his hour of need. He will cut such a lonely figure on the dock. It’s painful but that’s what happens if you think you are too smart.By the way Kibaki will abandon even Uhuru when push comes to shove. Either Uhuru has to play the “fall guy” to save Kibaki or else Kibaki with shove it in him. Watch this space.
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Post by kaburwo on Mar 27, 2011 14:40:02 GMT 3
In this scheme, everybody is dispensible
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 27, 2011 14:44:16 GMT 3
Kaburwo, This is a case of wanting to hear what one believes or hopes for rather than the reality and this is really what ODM-Raila or as they call it here on ground ODM-R supporters are "suffering" from .
ODM as party had its founding members from various ends of the country coming at a time when they had defeated wakos draft back in 2005.
All the sides from ODM wanted to run for the top post and at that time ODM-Kalonzo as it is known down here as ODM-K was the top contender based on the reviews , ratings, surveys and the pollsters .
To upsurge this ODM-R hired crooks and the the same pollsters to counter the ODM-Ks ratings in readiness for ODM presidential nominations.
ODM-M( Mudavadi) had seen a revival in his political career thus was content just being in that level playground with the likes of ODM-B(Balala) , ODM-U(uhuru) (Lest we forget he was a founding member) ,ODM-W(William Ruto)ODM-R, and ODM-K.
Back to the point . Once ODM-U realised ODM-K had been cornered and would not be able to get the mantle to run for the presidential elections as the supported candidate he did what he did to save his political career banking in future (read now) and opted to support Kibaki .
ODM-W realizing riftvalley were going to support the most anti-kibaki vocal leader that being ODM-R deemed it necessary and beneficial for him to adhere to what his political base wanted in that time but plotting how he would get that wave on his side in future(read now)
ODM-K decided rather than losing relevance he would vie for presidency at that time while fronting and reaching out in future for ODM-U , ODM-B and ODM -W and uniting and forming a formidable political union (read now)
Unfortunately ODM-M and ODM-R could not read the tell signs and are now wondering where they went wrong.
The truth of the matter is that ODM-R is seen as the incumbent with Kibaki leaving the political scene and not anointing any individual to run for the 2012 presidential elections .A deja vu of 2002 and 2007 elections.
The Uhurus,Rutos,Balalas,Duales Kalonzo and the johny come lates the likes of Wamalwa Kombo Magaras et all realized this and are hitting the nail on the head to gain political mileage .
Has it worked . The answer is a big Yes .........compare political lives of Wamalwas ,Uhurus ,Ruto , Balala and Duales as at March 2008 and now March -2011 vis a vis Railas Mudavadi and Karuas .
Bottom line for the political heavyweights its about Raila Vs the Rest and this can be confirmed by what the print & visual media has been showing of late especially this weekend .
The wishful thinking that the rest will go after each other has no basis and the more ODM-R believes it will happen the more it will hurt ODM-R political matrix come 2012 elections
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Post by commes on Mar 27, 2011 15:57:51 GMT 3
kaburwoTo do justice to your piece, let me ignore the ostriches with their heads deeply buried in the sand. I suppose that WKR walked into this trap to save only himself from his many tribulations. The fraud landcase, other are yet to starts and of course the Hague. PORK/PNU had the painkillers not the ultimate medication. Knowing that he had an irresistible political solution for PNU, WKR jumped at the grand trap opportunity offering ; 1. The PM’s head on a silver platter. 2. A section of MP’s to tilt parliamentary strength and weaken ODM, 3. Rift Valley’s massive voting block ahead of 2012 Unfortunately WKR failed in all of the above. The desired effect was not achieved. He has ended up separating and isolating himself instead from the ODM front. PNU on the other hand is beginning to shun him. Fact is that WKR will not be on the ballot paper. Rift Valley is looking for his successor (The successor who is yet to emerge and some leaders will remind rift valley how WKR almost sold them off). The PNU wing has woken up to a realization that Jomo Jnr will also not be on the ballot paper. Another sad fact is that both WKR and Jomo Jnr had dealt each other unsalvageable damage that sunk their fate to the bottoms of the sea. Each used their then existing networks in Government to provide destructive material to the WAKI Commission against each other. They have themselves to blame.WKR is being described by those in the know as finished with a lot of baggage. Jomo Jnr is in no different position either. Evidence collected against both are highly incriminating. WKR had hoped that since the PNU wing appeared to control state resources and machinery, he would benefit from the deferral or referral process and eventually be sanitized via a local tribunal. The above appeared to be an appealing offer to Jomo Jrn and Muthaura who quickly welcomed WKR on board. That is how WKR starting sleeping with his enemies. The downside of this matter is that the wheels of justice continued to turn undeterred. Ocampo stuck to his calendar and schedule. He initiated investigations when he said he would. He named the suspects on schedule. He however summoned the suspects sooner that they had expected, to appear before Pre-trial Chamber II on 7th and 8th April 2011. Reality is setting in that nothing is going to change the course of Justice. Witnesses will testify including the man below. Soon it will be everyone for himself.
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 27, 2011 17:10:55 GMT 3
commes,
Thanks for the cartoons. That is a good collection. We are going to need them when we write the history and twists and turns of this period.
I agree with you that we should ignore those who forget their way to the toilet and end up here posting gibberish. Their own stupidity speaks very eloquently for them.
There is a reason the Ocampo six are terrified of facing trials at The Hague. Once the trials begin the evidence is going to emerge and all the bloody things done in darkness will come to light. Kenyans are not stupid. They will judge the suspects on the basis of evidence against them. Inside the court room cheap politics will not help anybody. It will be time to face the evidence and the witnesses mano amano. That is why the boys are shaking in their pants.
But yeah, that Gichangi guy is a Raila mole in the NSIS. That is why he fingered kina Ruto. hehehehehehe. How much is Raila paying him?
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 27, 2011 17:48:01 GMT 3
kaburwo, This is even more deadly. The chickens are coming home to roost. These people played Ruto like a joke. Now I see why Ocampo is so confident. www.standardmedia.co.ke/politics/InsidePage.php?id=2000032003&cid=289&story=Uhuru+and+Ruto+fallout+imminent+as+ICC+beckons
Uhuru and Ruto fallout imminent as ICC beckons
Updated 18 hr(s) 38 min(s) ago By Juma Kwayera Having, so far, spoken in one voice since the disclosure last December of identities of the six people the International Criminal Court (ICC) accuses of stoking and financing post-election violence, a major falling out looms between two of the politicians implicated in the mayhem. This follows revelations that the evidence deposited at the ICC by Party of National Unity (PNU) on its new ally Eldoret North MP William Ruto is damning.The Higher Education Minister will also have to contend with Information in possession of ICC provided by a minister. The evidence described by those who have seen it as ‘highly incriminating’ is said to have been filed before Ocampo made public the names of the six suspects last December. Ruto will also have to contend with information in possession of ICC courtesy of a PNU minister from Rift Valley.The minister could not be reached for comment, nor did he respond to questions sent on his cell-phone. However, a friend of his accused senior officials in the ministry of turning over the former higher education minister to ICC. It was immediately clear how the MPs got access to the evidence with ICC. However, lawyers versed with international law say the six suspects have a right to know the evidence the court will use if the charges against them will be confirmed. The minister is said to have admitted in private to friends to providing ICC with records of Ruto’s text messages and telephone conversations on orders of the spy agency, the National Security Intelligence Service.Consequently, a major rift between PNU and Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) renegades is in the offing as they prepare to travel to The Hague on April 7 and 8 for confirmation of their charges. Regional Development Minister Fred Gumo and Nominated MP Musa Sirma alluded to the fact that Ruto and Uhuru are headed for a clash during a tour of St Patrick’s Iten High School with Prime Minister Raila Odinga. Gumo told Ruto he had gone to bed with the enemy, and he knows it. The minister spoke at a time there was talk the bulk of the evidence Moreno-Ocampo has, was collected before the National Accord that was signed on February 28, 2008. However, it is ODM Jakoyo Midiwo who provided The Standard on Sunday with details of how PNU ministers fixed Ruto. "I know very well Ruto was turned in by PNU ministers. It irritates me that, although he knows how he was fixed, he still wants to blame ODM for his political troubles," says Midiwo. He says majority of PNU ministers now dining with Ruto were the architects of his date with ICC Chief Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo. The plot to fix Ruto was first alluded to by former Minister for Justice Martha Karua in February 2009, when she refuted claims by the Eldoret North MP that she had been invited to partnership talks ahead of next year’s presidential poll. Karua, under whose docket the evidence was collected, described her Cabinet colleague as a post-election violence suspect with "a lot of baggage." She said, "Why would a Minister of Justice use night meetings to sort out issues with suspects, when she has the whole justice system at her disposal… Why would I bother to get on board with somebody like him? He is a major political baggage?"The evidence, described by those who have seen it as ‘highly incriminating’ was filed before Ocampo made public the names of the six suspects last December. Imenti Central MP, Gitobu Imanyara, told The Standard on Sunday the hardening feelings against Ruto was the culmination of a two-year strategy to ‘grab’ him from the PM, and in the process weaken ODM. Imanyara, who is versed with international court procedures, says he is aware the evidence filed by PNU is sure to be a source of discomfort between Uhuru and Ruto when it is made public. Sources in PNU and ODM privy to the evidence mailed to ICC say April 7, when the court is to confirm or reject the charges, will be a defining moment in inter- and intra-party politics, with Uhuru and Ruto as chief protagonists. The imminent rift is underlain by strategic distancing by President Kibaki from the Ruto faction in ODM, which has seen the President twice decline to meet Ruto and Dujis MP Adan Duale (at Office of the President) on no-appointment grounds.The frosty phase in relationships between the two is a dramatic shift from the cosy interaction the two enjoyed barely two months ago, when the President attended rallies in Rift Valley to cement their newfound solidarity against ICC and the Prime Minister. A senior official close to the President who declined to be named said the April 7-8 ICC date will see a retraction of confrontational language that have dominated political discourse between the two parties since the six names were published. "Ruto is in PNU at the mercy of First Lady Lucy Kibaki, not the old man himself. However, certain developments indicate that falling out between Uhuru and Ruto is also imminent as The Hague process takes off," said the source. The evidence, part of documents deposited at the International Criminal Court and seen by top lawyers and politicians in PNU and ODM, promise a bruising contest between Deputy Prime Minister Uhuru and Ruto. The point of departure in the newfound alliance between Uhuru and Ruto are the serious allegations the former is said to have levelled against the Eldoret MP, which implicates him in the Kiambaa church murders, among other crimes against humanity. Minister for Nairobi Metropolitan Development Njeru Githae concedes PNU filed counter-evidence of crimes against humanity against ODM leaders, "but the ICC chief prosecutor only accepted what ODM supplied against PNU."Githae, who avoided commenting on what Uhuru has up his sleeves against Ruto, says, "Uhuru is preparing his defence and has not implicated anybody. I have seen videos of his defence that show him distributing food victims of post-election near Limuru. One clip shows him prevailing on crowd not to attack rivals." The minister says PNU’s report, although rejected by ICC, implicates the ODM top decision-making organ, the Pentagon, before Ruto parted ways with the Prime Minister.
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Post by nalinali on Mar 27, 2011 18:55:14 GMT 3
commes, Thanks for the cartoons. That is a good collection. We are going to need them when we write the history and twists and turns of this period. I agree with you that we should ignore those who forget their way to the toilet and end up here posting gibberish. Their own stupidity speaks very eloquently for them. There is a reason the Ocampo six are terrified of facing trials at The Hague. Once the trials begin the evidence is going to emerge and all the bloody things done in darkness will come to light. Kenyans are not stupid. They will judge the suspects on the basis of evidence against them. Inside the court room cheap politics will not help anybody. It will be time to face the evidence and the witnesses mano amano. That is why the boys are shaking in their pants. But yeah, that Gichangi guy is a Raila mole in the NSIS. That is why he fingered kina Ruto. hehehehehehe. How much is Raila paying him?Adongo I wish you had asked about how much Raila paid the RV PNU minister (subject to the veracity of the Standard report). What we have witnessed is over the top, explicit and intentional political utterances to put "Raila on trial" in the court of public opinion as responsible for the predicament of Ocampo sic-Uhuru-Ruto especially. With the reports Kaburwo has laid forth, it is difficult to explain how Ruto can turn around with an accusatory glance at Uhuru withouit losing grip of the ground on which his political capital is anchored. His political capital is currently based on an anti-Odinga poise and it will take not less than the actual evidence at the hague to change that. His best hope lies with the judges rejection of Ocampo's case against him. If that happens, he will pray that the evidence of PNU implicating him does not surface lest it destroys his credibility irreparably. But sadder still for me is the puzzle of what sense, for instance, make of Kiraitui Murungi's repeated echo of the lie that Raila has manipulated Oampo to help ease out of the way his formidable 2012 opponents. Other than being a lawyer, with a feather from Harvard, it is hard to believe that such gibberish would ooze freely from his accented utterances. Waht would he say about these reports on NISIS.
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Post by johns on Mar 27, 2011 18:59:36 GMT 3
Its funy how things reveal themselves out just in the course of time. Now it begin to make sense that the same Juma Kwayera who has written this article recorded statement with the kenya police claiming that his life was in danger.http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/news/InsidePage.php?id=2000031485&cid=159&
These people must have been terrified that this article which Juma must have had in the works for some time if allowed to come out, would enlighten the public as to how they ended in the circumstances they now find themselves. It would call into question why they have been blaming the Prime Minister for their tribulations when they know he had nothing to do with it. Karma is really something.
receiving threatening calls and being being trailed by unknown people
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Post by johns on Mar 27, 2011 19:07:50 GMT 3
Here is the story
Writer records statement over threatening phone call
By Standard Reporter
A senior political writer of The Standard recorded a statement with the police at Nairobi;s Central Station, following threats on his life by an anonymous caller.
"We have come to a point where we can longer tolerate your work. If you think you are man enough, we are going to show you that we have killed more serious people than you. We are going to shoot you," warned the caller, who identified himself only as John.
Juma Kwayera, who was accompanied by The Standard’s head of Security, Peter Mwangangi, said the chilling experience occurred at 8.43am moments after he arrived in the office, along Mombasa Road. Speaking in Kiswahili, the caller disclosed he had been paid to eliminate the writer because his clients were angry at his work.
"Although he did not mention how or which of my work had offended his client(s), he left no doubt that theirs was a reaction to the stories I write," said Kwayera. The caller claimed the elimination plot would be executed in broad daylight.
"We do not care if the police would be there. We have even robbed in the past and so getting rid of you is nothing to us. The police will be helpless when we come for you. You cannot do what you have been doing and expect us to keep quiet," threatened ‘John’.
This is not the first time Kwayera has encountered this type of drama over the last three months. "In 2008, I received two warnings from allies of a politician with presidential ambitions. On diverse occasions, the same people have invited me for ‘coffee’, which I have often turned down. I have also received strange calls on my phone from unknown callers on four-digit numbers," says Kwayera.
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Post by nalinali on Mar 27, 2011 19:33:45 GMT 3
Here is the story Writer records statement over threatening phone call By Standard Reporter A senior political writer of The Standard recorded a statement with the police at Nairobi;s Central Station, following threats on his life by an anonymous caller. "We have come to a point where we can longer tolerate your work. If you think you are man enough, we are going to show you that we have killed more serious people than you. We are going to shoot you," warned the caller, who identified himself only as John. Juma Kwayera, who was accompanied by The Standard’s head of Security, Peter Mwangangi, said the chilling experience occurred at 8.43am moments after he arrived in the office, along Mombasa Road. Speaking in Kiswahili, the caller disclosed he had been paid to eliminate the writer because his clients were angry at his work. "Although he did not mention how or which of my work had offended his client(s), he left no doubt that theirs was a reaction to the stories I write," said Kwayera. The caller claimed the elimination plot would be executed in broad daylight. "We do not care if the police would be there. We have even robbed in the past and so getting rid of you is nothing to us. The police will be helpless when we come for you. You cannot do what you have been doing and expect us to keep quiet," threatened ‘John’. This is not the first time Kwayera has encountered this type of drama over the last three months. "In 2008, I received two warnings from allies of a politician with presidential ambitions. On diverse occasions, the same people have invited me for ‘coffee’, which I have often turned down. I have also received strange calls on my phone from unknown callers on four-digit numbers," says Kwayera. Johns That all you need to know that what he wrote about had considerable dose of truth in it. But threatening calls are themselves an indication of licentious impunity(excuse the redundancy), and should be foregrounded and dealt with. I applaud the Nation (in spite of lukewarm reportage in the past) for publishing the NSIS story and the standard for Kwayera's piece. What the misplaced din by the duo of Uhuru and Ruto have done is to turn our moral fabric on its head. here is a case where individuals accused of very heinous crimes use the accusation, buttressed with ethnicity, to build political capital. I really pray that their exploits at funeral rallies do not constitute the nascent stage where the number of folks one is accused of murdering becomes the yardstick for heroism and leadership acumen. I pray that the media take on the task of reporting facts as they should be reported. Only then can the fight to restore sanity and save this country be said to have a credible boost.
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 27, 2011 20:15:18 GMT 3
nalinali & others,
We are all always skeptical of what we read in the media. So I was combing through this story with a double tooth pick to see if it adds up. It more than adds up. The story has brought home some of the things people knew already but could not put their fingers on.
For example everybody knows that the NSIS fingered Ruto both at the Waki commission and possibly with Ocampo, but we did not know that the ministry of information (Phoghiso) was ordered by the NSIS to turn over SMS texts and phone conversations between Ruto and god knows who to Ocampo. But it makes a lot of sense that such evidence would be crucial in the case. In fact the fear has been that the government would have denied Ocampo access to such info. It looks like he got them and may be a lot more.
It is interesting and very credible that both sides tried to provide Ocampo with incriminating dossier on others. The PNU guys had the added advantage of having access to classified info. So they sent tons of stuff to Ocampo, as Njeru Githae admits. It seems their focus was to show that Raila was working with other members of the pentagon in the PEV. Ocampo shifted through all that and may be had to look for collaborative evidence and pinned them where he found them.
On the whole the story is very credible. The big deal and the reason the reporter is being threatened is that all along the Ruto/Uhuru project is to ensure that all real evidence on the case are never made public so they can continue selling their political lies that it is Raila who is finishing them and not their own foolishness in indulging in reckless criminal enterprises.
Let's distinguish between the two groups of the peddlers of lies about Raila taking the Ocampo six to The Hague. The real force behind this outrageous falsehood are the political big wigs. Ruto started the whole project as part of his total war to destroy ODM party and become the king of the kalenjins. Uhuru and the likes of Murungi joined because it served their political interests. These guys know they are lying, the know the exact evidence Ocampo has against them, they know Raila has absolutely nothing to do with any of their nightmare with the ICC, but for political expediency they are ready to lie through their teeth and do it everyday. So that is one category.
Then we have another category of genuinely ignorant and clueless political types like that Moses Kuria chap who honestly believes that Ocampo is working with Odinga and Obama to fix their heroes. I guess what kina Ruto and Uhuru are banking on is that if they can get some fairly well educated people to believe their lies then they can easily sell it in the villages coded in tribal and ethnic incitement to make heroes out of high level criminals. In other words they are trying to tap into what someone called "the strategic reserve of cluelessness". I doubt they will be that lucky.
This bring us to the issue at hand. How will the political narrative of Raila this Raila that in relation to the Ocampo six, change when real evidence becomes public? That is the game changer that terrifies the big two in the Ocampo six to death.
They know the evidence will not only show their hideous criminal activities against Kenyans but it will also show that Raila has nothing to do with anything as far as the ICC cases are concerned. That means the political house of cards they have been building against Raila will start collapsing rapidly as Kenyans get to see and hear the truth for themselves.
All said at the political level, the massive campaign launched by the Ocampo twins to finish Raila may very well end up to be the best gift Raila will receive as the trial gets underway and the lies fall apart. It is partly for that reason that the Ocampo crew are desperate to prevent the cases from moving to the next stage where Kenyans will see the evidence for themselves.
But the truth is already coming out and I think ODM would be foolish not to confront the Kenyan masses with the truth as it emerges and put to shame the merchants of lies and impunity. I am not sure they (the merchants of lies and impunity) are ready for this stage of the battle. We are.
adongo.
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Post by nereah on Mar 27, 2011 20:15:17 GMT 3
kaburo & all,my senior in jukwaa, kamalet referred to ruto as a dead man's walking in the thread below. jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2212i know for sure that the moment the hague trials begin,thats will be the silver bullet, the elusive open sesame to the kenya we want( did i hear someone yawn?) you see, the witnesses(forget about ocampo's dossier or waki's envelop),the witnesses, will be testifying against lords of impunity and war belonging to their own tribe and community. it wont be a luo witness,being used by raila to fix ruto.no this will be a kikuyu witnesses spilling the beans against a fellow kikuyu. muthahura and his tapes saying it as it were.it wont be tribe.not at all and sorry for those playing the ethnic cards. when the witnesses begin giving the harrowing accounts for the massacres,kenyans,as we saw in south africa during the tutu led commission hearing,comes to terms with what the divisive leaders have been shielding/distracting us from:the depth and magnitude of the evil of impunity,hatred and callousness. when ali takes the witness stand or muthaura,when ruto and uhuru are confronted with the evidence;that's the moment that this country will descend into the healing path. back to the topic of your thread,ruto disappoints me because he can be smarter than what he is treating us to. we have done a dialectic on ruto in more than a dozen threads.we have examined his past and present: his folly,foxiness and his frailties.we even contested his media image and tendencies in odm. it is a fact that at one point jukwaa progressives gave him the benefit of doubt as its done to those who abandon retrogression and embrace the ideology of change.but we merely second guessed and that's now is history. exercising my small mind, i have proffered in jukwaa that ruto and his lapdogs are headed for doom in their politics of isolation. they should have first and foremost fostered a practical, genuine, sustainable reconciliation between the kikuyus and kalenjins and other tribes in rift valley as a starting point to their battle against raila and odm.but they just wont! it is a fact that there has never been a structured dialogue and genuine reconciliation as a result of the post election violence.nothing affirms this disturbing reality than the fact that there are non-kalenjins who were evicted and displaced,lost properties and relatives,still living in idp camps.none one,at least to the est of our knowledge,has been compensated. so kaburwo, you are right to say that ruto's goose is cooked or as kamale warned us here, ruto is a dead man walking.
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Post by tnk on Mar 27, 2011 20:44:41 GMT 3
as we have said time and time again. the fear of the ICC process is not that the trials will be fair or unfair
the fear is that the evidence materials that will be unveiled will horrify many kenyans, the violence, the planning, the sell out, the names not yet mentioned publicly, who is associated with what. otherwise why do you think the entire (PNU wing) government machinery must stop at all costs this trial
you see if it is done locally - evidence can always be heard in camera citing security concerns yada yada, plus no real case will ever really be presented.
let them delay it as much as they want, but the clock will never stop ticking. justice is about to be served - may take some months, but it will be served
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Post by mzee on Mar 28, 2011 1:25:12 GMT 3
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Post by mzee on Mar 28, 2011 1:35:36 GMT 3
"I am confident that I will go to The Hague and come back after being cleared and the real perpetrators of the violence will be known," said Uhuru www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000032060&cid=4&ttl=Uhuru's show of might on Kenneth's turf Could Uhuru be talking about Ruto? Afterall he together with PANU provided Ocampo with turns of evidence against WKR. Its time WKR rethought his friendship with Uhuru but will he?
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Post by danielwaweru on Mar 28, 2011 7:24:05 GMT 3
There doesn't seem a lot of reason to think that the story is true, actually. There've been external investigators in the Rift Valley for a very long time, and there were recordings of various people saying things which will get them into trouble even before the elections, and not all of them from government. In particular, it's no secret that Kenyan politicians have been under external surveillance for some time now: those who think that their mobile phone communications are secure have got it badly wrong. This was always one reason to be reasonably confident that there was sufficient evidence to put important people in jail. It's possible but not terribly likely that Poghisio is responsible for the phone evidence falling into the hands of the Waki commission and eventually the ICC. A far likelier route, and one for which there is better evidence, is that the evidence came from external surveillance.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Mar 28, 2011 7:46:55 GMT 3
I wonder what preponderance of evidence people keep talking about here that Justice Peter-Hans Kaul never got to see. Tell us more people, maybe you can ask Kwayera to provide us with more on this.
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Post by nalinali on Mar 28, 2011 7:51:55 GMT 3
I wonder what preponderance of evidence people keep talking about here that Justice Peter-Hans Kaul never got to see. Tell us more people, maybe you can ask Kwayera to provide us with more on this. He saw all the evidence Ocampo collected for the two cases. As a result of what he saw, he agreed fully with Ocampo that such and such crimes were indeed committed in Kenya by the the so named among others. His disagreement with Ocampo is not on the quality of evidence available for the case, but the jurisdiction of the said cases.
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Post by merkeju on Mar 28, 2011 8:42:11 GMT 3
Ruto found himself in Uhuru's company by default, after the mau saga, Ruto thought that he could continue his war with Raila by joining forces with Uhuru in blocking Raila chances of becoming the president of the republic.
I do believe that Ruto himself does not believe that it is Raila who is setting him up, but he has no choice but to go along with the lies which for now has worked in galvanizing the kalenjin people into supporting him and since he has already burned the ODM bridge and he is trying to prove that he can stand by himself. It is evident that whereas Ruto enjoys large support from the Kalenjins for behaving like the victim, it is the Luo and Kalenjins who mostly paid the price after the 2007 elections from either the police or the Mungiki, they share more in terms of pain they went through together that what they share with Uhuru and his community. It is just the other day that Gideon Moi talked of only one community benefiting as IDPs, and Salat was telling Kalonzo to stop wasting tax payers money on shuttle diplomacy, it goes to show that not all Kalenjins are buying the Ruto cooked up victim syndrome.
I have always wondered how do two individuals who are accused of planing and financing the killing of each others tribe dine and wine together as if nothing happened, and do the people who were victims feel about this, seeing the man who is accused of chasing them from their land in Rift Valley talking about being innocent.
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Post by commes on Mar 28, 2011 9:21:41 GMT 3
I wonder what preponderance of evidence people keep talking about here that Justice Peter-Hans Kaul never got to see. Tell us more people, maybe you can ask Kwayera to provide us with more on this. He saw all the evidence Ocampo collected for the two cases. As a result of what he saw, he agreed fully with Ocampo that such and such crimes were indeed committed in Kenya by the the so named among others. His disagreement with Ocampo is not on the quality of evidence available for the case, but the jurisdiction of the said cases. nalinaliYou are spot on. Nothing more to add here. Mwalimu can dig up the ruling and analysis right here at Jukwaa from previous threads. Ni utukutu tuu! www.standardmedia.co.ke/downloads/judge_hans_peter_opinion.pdfwww.standardmedia.co.ke/downloads/judge_hans_peter_opinion_ruto.pdf
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 28, 2011 11:07:42 GMT 3
kaburwoTo do justice to your piece, let me ignore the ostriches with their heads deeply buried in the sand. I suppose that WKR walked into this trap to save only himself from his many tribulations. The fraud landcase, other are yet to starts and of course the Hague. PORK/PNU had the painkillers not the ultimate medication. Knowing that he had an irresistible political solution for PNU, WKR jumped at the grand trap opportunity offering ; 1. The PM’s head on a silver platter. 2. A section of MP’s to tilt parliamentary strength and weaken ODM, 3. Rift Valley’s massive voting block ahead of 2012 Unfortunately WKR failed in all of the above. The desired effect was not achieved. He has ended up separating and isolating himself instead from the ODM front. PNU on the other hand is beginning to shun him. Fact is that WKR will not be on the ballot paper. Rift Valley is looking for his successor (The successor who is yet to emerge and some leaders will remind rift valley how WKR almost sold them off). The PNU wing has woken up to a realization that Jomo Jnr will also not be on the ballot paper. Another sad fact is that both WKR and Jomo Jnr had dealt each other unsalvageable damage that sunk their fate to the bottoms of the sea. Each used their then existing networks in Government to provide destructive material to the WAKI Commission against each other. They have themselves to blame.WKR is being described by those in the know as finished with a lot of baggage. Jomo Jnr is in no different position either. Evidence collected against both are highly incriminating. WKR had hoped that since the PNU wing appeared to control state resources and machinery, he would benefit from the deferral or referral process and eventually be sanitized via a local tribunal. The above appeared to be an appealing offer to Jomo Jrn and Muthaura who quickly welcomed WKR on board. That is how WKR starting sleeping with his enemies. The downside of this matter is that the wheels of justice continued to turn undeterred. Ocampo stuck to his calendar and schedule. He initiated investigations when he said he would. He named the suspects on schedule. He however summoned the suspects sooner that they had expected, to appear before Pre-trial Chamber II on 7th and 8th April 2011. Reality is setting in that nothing is going to change the course of Justice. Witnesses will testify including the man below. Soon it will be everyone for himself. Now who are the real ostriches with their heads deep in the sand , the ones with wishful thinking that uhuru and ruto will go after each other or the ones saying as it is political leaders fear working with ODM-R(Raila) due to his history of falling out with all the political figures he has ever worked with . While some of us speculate how Ruto and Uhuru will go after each other they are in Eastern and Central tearing ODM-R apart. The reception that Ruto is getting from Uhurus political base is not that of a man never wanted in that land as being put by some people. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQscFoAOlcM&feature=player_embedded [/youtube] We’re in 2012 race, say Hague duo www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/We+are+in+2012+race+say+Hague+duo+++/-/1064/1134244/-/p2q1o3/-/index.htmlIf you happened to see yesterdays Rutos interview in Citizen you will clearly understand his main political rival is none other than Raila-All the questions asked were twisted to criticize Raila . We have seen ODM-R plotting the fall off by claiming that Mau IDPs of Kalenjin origin have been left in the cold while IDPs of Kikuyu origin have been relocated and the Uhuru should be held responsible . Did it work ? No We have seen tablings of how the devolution issue will disorganize the Uhuru -Ruto co-operation but this also is bound to fail . Wait and see the heros welcome the 2 will be granted once they return from the hague after heeding the summons . Ok, if a PNU minister incriminated ,Ruto so what ? Will lead to Uhuru /Ruto fallout?- Certainly no - the best for Uhuru is to do away with that minister as his political associate -same with Ruto if this scenerio is in his camp. Mind you their alliance is not like ODM-R where you clearly see Midiwo, Orengo, Kajwang and Nyongo being a liability to Raila but he is doing nothing about it resulting to further divisions in ODM pitting Nyanza party members vs Coast /Riftvalley and Western. [youtube] Well as said earlier this is a case of wanting to hear what one believes or hopes for rather than the reality .This is really what ODM-R and its supporters as a whole are suffering from /
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Post by shifta on Mar 28, 2011 17:26:40 GMT 3
The current noize pollution by the two susupects is indeed a sad affair because it is the kind of hyperbole that heightened ethnic tensions before the last electiosn. The two are not going around saying what they will do for the country if elected but why they hate the PM. Now as I have said before, unless the two of them (I guess Kalooser is gone) settles on Uhuru, which seems to be the case, expect a major fallout. There is no way GEMA, especially, the Kikuyu are voting for Ruto. They will do a Kabogo on him. You can take that to the bank. For now it is easy because there is no agreed upon flag bearer for this horror show.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Mar 28, 2011 19:22:52 GMT 3
. There is no way GEMA, especially, the Kikuyu are voting for Ruto. They will do a Kabogo on him. You can take that to the bank. For now it is easy because there is no agreed upon flag bearer for this horror show.Even the lame duck P.O.R.K admitted that the madness in RV post election was driven by ruto. Right now the Gema masses are responding to jomo jnr message. And ruto is basking in the afterglow. But crunch time comes and we start seeing exactly what Ocampa has in evidence on what ruto did to he Gema masses, and we start hearing direct from the witnesses, wana Gema will cry for ruto's neck
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