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Post by Onyango Oloo on Oct 12, 2012 16:47:55 GMT 3
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Post by reporter911 on Oct 12, 2012 17:14:05 GMT 3
These idea of neck to neck!! and close race!! too close to call is what gave Kenya 200-2008 PEV..there after a mismatched Coalition government!! Opinion polls are not about what Kenyans think or want for their country.. let the pollsters allow Kenyans to engage and vote without the false hype.
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Post by kamalet on Oct 12, 2012 17:56:04 GMT 3
Oloo
I think you owe Jukwaaist some respect and should refrain from bringing in such mediocre analysis by some wannabe journalist.
The guy just fell short of asking us to vote for and elect Raila for our own survival!!!
So why would the US or anyone else in the west impose sanctions on the people of Kenya for exercising their democratic right however dumb and daft the elected president it? If Kenyans want to elect Uhuru they must be allowed and who ever is unhappy with it should take a hike...seriuosly!
What this wannabe analyst is trying to do is ignore the fact that the Kenya government today has a lot more chinese military equipment than anything from say the UK or perhaps the US. Trade wise, Kenya has more trade with India and China than the US and the EU combined.
But then a country like Kenya that has not been exactly a good boy in the eyes of the west continues to be a strategic one for the west and their interests such as security and the war on terror. Now that is something they do not want to give up that easily however much they would like to deny the ICC suspects an opportunity of being elected!!
So forget this silly idea of starving thin Kenyans if they elect Uhuru or Ruto just because the Americans are no longer giving us yellow maize! We are doing just fine and even after March 2013, we shall continue to prosper!!!
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Post by mzee on Oct 12, 2012 18:23:28 GMT 3
Oloo I think you owe Jukwaaist some respect and should refrain from bringing in such mediocre analysis by some wannabe journalist. The guy just fell short of asking us to vote for and elect Raila for our own survival!!! So why would the US or anyone else in the west impose sanctions on the people of Kenya for exercising their democratic right however dumb and daft the elected president it? If Kenyans want to elect Uhuru they must be allowed and who ever is unhappy with it should take a hike...seriuosly! What this wannabe analyst is trying to do is ignore the fact that the Kenya government today has a lot more chinese military equipment than anything from say the UK or perhaps the US. Trade wise, Kenya has more trade with India and China than the US and the EU combined. But then a country like Kenya that has not been exactly a good boy in the eyes of the west continues to be a strategic one for the west and their interests such as security and the war on terror. Now that is something they do not want to give up that easily however much they would like to deny the ICC suspects an opportunity of being elected!! So forget this silly idea of starving thin Kenyans if they elect Uhuru or Ruto just because the Americans are no longer giving us yellow maize! We are doing just fine and even after March 2013, we shall continue to prosper!!! Just ask Palestinians when they democratically elected Hamas. They were punished severely and that's what kenyans fear. So the journalist is spot on
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Post by kamalet on Oct 12, 2012 18:37:26 GMT 3
Oloo I think you owe Jukwaaist some respect and should refrain from bringing in such mediocre analysis by some wannabe journalist. The guy just fell short of asking us to vote for and elect Raila for our own survival!!! So why would the US or anyone else in the west impose sanctions on the people of Kenya for exercising their democratic right however dumb and daft the elected president it? If Kenyans want to elect Uhuru they must be allowed and who ever is unhappy with it should take a hike...seriuosly! What this wannabe analyst is trying to do is ignore the fact that the Kenya government today has a lot more chinese military equipment than anything from say the UK or perhaps the US. Trade wise, Kenya has more trade with India and China than the US and the EU combined. But then a country like Kenya that has not been exactly a good boy in the eyes of the west continues to be a strategic one for the west and their interests such as security and the war on terror. Now that is something they do not want to give up that easily however much they would like to deny the ICC suspects an opportunity of being elected!! So forget this silly idea of starving thin Kenyans if they elect Uhuru or Ruto just because the Americans are no longer giving us yellow maize! We are doing just fine and even after March 2013, we shall continue to prosper!!! Just ask Palestinians when they democratically elected Hamas. They were punished severely and that's what kenyans fear. So the journalist is spot on You are comparing oranges and apples
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 13, 2012 18:35:46 GMT 3
Trade wise, Kenya has more trade with India and China than the US and the EU combined. Only if you don't separate imports and exports and think that running a large trade deficit with China, importing junk, is just fine. Looking at our exports in 2011: * UK is ranked #2, taking 10% * Netherlands is ranked #4, taking 6% * USA is ranked #5, taking 5% * India is ranked #14, taking 2% * China is not among our top 25 export markets Even Afghanistan imports more from us than either China or India! Imports vs. Exports: Which one puts money into our pockets? And then you forget other things, like the $500 million/year that comes from the USA for health, as well as numerous types of non-trade money that flows from the West.
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Post by kamalet on Oct 14, 2012 10:19:35 GMT 3
You are so wrong......and your stats do not even add up!
Just how did we survive the last ten years...you really must wonder.
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Post by 5thestate on Oct 14, 2012 14:26:26 GMT 3
I agree with otishotish, China contribution is overated, and thier agenda is extraction and nothing to do with capital investments or exchange. Our relationship with them has to fundamentally change if our relationship with them will be beneficially sustainable – the back lash building up is already evident.
Kenya would have fallen apart long time ago if it was not for grants (in all its forms) remittances from the Diaspora, short term relief from skewed privatisations, the artificial pirate economy and debt.
When the majority of the people live with under one dollar a day, I think the right question to ask is how have we barely survived in the last ten years and I would hazard an to answer that if you compute the figures and lay on the facts – the right answer would be that the majority of Kenyans in the last ten years have been living (surviving) in poverty.
We need a massive constructive and co-ordinated reconstruction not just receipt of grants to build roads
When the majority of the people live with under one dollar a day , I think the right question to ask is who are those who have been surviving in the last ten years.
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Post by kamalet on Oct 14, 2012 16:54:38 GMT 3
Now this is how badly Kenya is doing according to the 5th Estate www.nation.co.ke/business/news/Multinationals+in+Nairobi/-/1006/1532544/-/9lk532/-/index.htmlNow here is a country financing close to 80% of its national budget, local borrowing and only 5% of donor funding that is really desperate for help that it has to sell its soul! Unfortunately that is how mentally enslaved would think. It is not just about China though one must admit that it has been a better development partner than the noise making west! For now I do hope that either Uhuru or Ruto wins it in a free and fair as ell as a peaceful election and see how quickly we shall be hit with sanctions for our collective stupidity as a nation! That will be the day!
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 14, 2012 17:10:32 GMT 3
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 14, 2012 17:14:15 GMT 3
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Post by mank on Oct 14, 2012 17:32:10 GMT 3
Oloo
I think you owe Jukwaaist some respect and should refrain from bringing in such mediocre analysis by some wannabe journalist.
The guy just fell short of asking us to vote for and elect Raila for our own survival!!!
So why would the US or anyone else in the west impose sanctions on the people of Kenya for exercising their democratic right however dumb and daft the elected president it? If Kenyans want to elect Uhuru they must be allowed and who ever is unhappy with it should take a hike...seriuosly!
What this wannabe analyst is trying to do is ignore the fact that the Kenya government today has a lot more chinese military equipment than anything from say the UK or perhaps the US. Trade wise, Kenya has more trade with India and China than the US and the EU combined.
But then a country like Kenya that has not been exactly a good boy in the eyes of the west continues to be a strategic one for the west and their interests such as security and the war on terror. Now that is something they do not want to give up that easily however much they would like to deny the ICC suspects an opportunity of being elected!!
So forget this silly idea of starving thin Kenyans if they elect Uhuru or Ruto just because the Americans are no longer giving us yellow maize! We are doing just fine and even after March 2013, we shall continue to prosper!!! Just ask Palestinians when they democratically elected Hamas. They were punished severely and that's what kenyans fear. So the journalist is spot onPerhaps Kenya should then ask Mrs. Clinton who should be crowned president instead of spending all the time and money in campaigns for everyone yet struggling not to elect those she would oppose so tumultuously. I don't know why the lady would have said what she said in the first place, because it is utterly in contradiction with America's democratic principles.
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Post by 5thestate on Oct 15, 2012 1:50:30 GMT 3
Now this is how badly Kenya is doing according to the 5th Estate www.nation.co.ke/business/news/Multinationals+in+Nairobi/-/1006/1532544/-/9lk532/-/index.htmlNow here is a country financing close to 80% of its national budget, local borrowing and only 5% of donor funding that is really desperate for help that it has to sell its soul! Unfortunately that is how mentally enslaved would think. It is not just about China though one must admit that it has been a better development partner than the noise making west! For now I do hope that either Uhuru or Ruto wins it in a free and fair as ell as a peaceful election and see how quickly we shall be hit with sanctions for our collective stupidity as a nation! That will be the day! You can finance upto 100 % of the budget with well connected local banks and individuals but if you cannot service your external debt the resulting inflation eventually will ripen to a full blown Unga Revolution and maybe executives of General Electric, Google, IBM, Visa International, Pepsi , Nestle, Foton Automobiles, and South Africa’s FirstRand Bank. will come to the rescue. I know which side the bulk of the no minimum low wage earners from these institutions will be . Nothing wrong with them opening shop here thanks to the new Katiba that is a good thing but we also know that unless it is solid manufacturing activity which is transferring knowhow and not repatriating profits , exploiting cheap labour and after cornering the market and eventually automating singing kumbayaa is a bit premature. If mentally enslaved is to wish that we get our priorities right and we build a strong foundation that will be able to sustain our collective future , hiyo ni sawa , but to cook the books including computer errors and ask us to close our eyes is a bit naive. Regarding the small matter of local government domestic financing here we go , allafrica.com/stories/201210090504.htmlCan we call this domestic borrowing good old fashioned financial enslavement ? Maybe that’s more compassionate than IMF or foreign borrowing as this is domesticated. What does an enslaved mind know ? Its just to bad to play games with lives of 40 million + and pretend to be smart by half. and this www.kenya-today.com/business/the-euro-debt-crisis-lessons-for-kenyaAll am saying is that we need a total reset and stop making budgets and parroting figures that are only sound bites but don’t mean anything , facts are stubborn and Kenyans deserve better. I will accept there is progress being made but lets also accept the obvious and strive to change it for the better. Different Monkey Same Forest
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 15, 2012 2:41:46 GMT 3
Now here is a country financing close to 80% of its national budget, local borrowing and only 5% of donor funding that is really desperate for help that it has to sell its soul Figures like these are always intriguing. A key question is what is included in the budget and what is not. To try and answer this, I took a look at one particular sector, the very important one of the Health budget. Here are some facts: (1) From 2009/2010 to 2010/2011, the Health Budget increased by about 18%. All of that increase was due to a huge increase in donor funding, from the usual donors. (2) Donor aid currently acounts for about 30% of the budget, and this has been increasing over the years---8% in 1995, 16% in 2000, etc. And that's before we get to (3). (3) Most significantly, most (about two-thirds) of the donor aid to the sector is not included in the budget. (1) and (2) have raised issues as regards sustainability of future increases in the budget if the government itself is not financing those increases. In addition to the obvious issue of "we finance so much of our buget", (3) has raised issues about how to ensure the effective use of money that is "off-budget". I also noticed that there are all sorts of NGOs and the like pumping in money for things that the government would otherwise have to find money for and that these are not necessarily included in "donor aid". In this regard, I was "amused" to note that the Clinton Foundation alone has contributed a lot to Kenyan health---more than many governments (including the beloved China)---but I bet that's not common knowledge. Today, being Sunday, was a slow day, so I amused myself by looking at all sorts of figures to determine how much money GoK would have to find from elsewhere (budget and off-budget) if it decided to tell the detested West to bugger off. I got a hearty laughy from the "5%" and how people interpret it. I started by looking at the obvious sources of revenues. We know the current situation of exports. Could we export more to our new friend, China? They aren't big coffee drinkers. As for tea, we've all had the joke about exporting tea to China. Which brings us to one of the largest sectors of the Kenyan economy: tourism, one of the top sources of the foreign currency that we need to buy junk fro China. Do I need to state where the tourists largely come from now? No? Good. Can we replace the with Chinese? The Chinese, as they emerge from dire poverty---and most are still in dire poverty---are still much like rural Africans in their travel dreams: they want to be able to brag to their friends about having been to America and Europe' "primitive energy" is not a huge attraction for them. Looking at where they go now, as well as projections by "tourism operators" there, we can forget that one. And so on I went, looking at all sorts of figures ... But let's fast-forward to the chase: how well could we do if we told the West to bugger off? I'm inclined to believe that Kenya will not face any serious sanctions even if we have a President Uhuru, but one never knows. Nevertheless, should we decide to go that way, we have a "case-study" that tells us how it would go: Zimbabwe. Comrade Mugabe is a manly sort of man who looks everyone in the eye and tells them what's what. He has manfully stood up to the West and told them where to get off with their neo-colonialism. Tough guy with Chinese friends. A true African hero, like his friend King of Kings, Khaddafi. And now Zimbabwe is Zimbabwe.
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 15, 2012 3:46:10 GMT 3
You can finance upto 100 % of the budget with well connected local banks and individuals but if you cannot service your external debt the resulting inflation eventually will ripen to a full blown ... 5th Estate: The figures of "we can finance so much of our budget" are good for blowing the trumpet of jingoism and that's about it. See my previous posting on just the health sector. Since that posting, I've looked at the very latest figures, and they show that as at Jan 2012 about 87% of donor funding to that sector is not included in the budget. Just sticking to the Health sector, here's an idea of how nonsensical these "we can finance our own budget claims are". In 2009 (1) Kenya's expenditure on HIV/AIDS was $687 million.(2) Of that, $541 million came from the US Government and $87 million came from the Global Fund. (Please don't ask about Beloved China.) www.unaids.org/globalreport/documents/20101123_GlobalReport_full_en.pdfThat figure of $687 million is way, way more than the entire budget for Health in Kenya in that entire year. Obviously, we shouldn't have any problems financing 100% of our budget---as long as such small donations from friendly nations are kept off-budget. And the good thing about money that is not in the budget is that you can assume it just fell from the sky and so not be concerned with its source. No need to sell your soul or anything else for that matter. ;D Of the friendly nations ... I've lately been reading of some little-reported initiatives that Obama has in place for Kenya. One of these is a very comprehensive plan to make sure that we can feed ourselves. But starving has never bothered us as long as there are "exciting" discussions to be had on presidential candidates, who's defecting from what party, Miguna, who is out to finish whom .... ; so I'll save that one for when the next famine comes up, which should be in .... about 10 months or so, when we'll ask "the international community" to "do something in the interests of humanity". (I wonder: do we always produce new "begging brochures", or do we just use the ones from the last drought/famine?) Kazi iendelee. China, here we come.
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Post by kamalet on Oct 15, 2012 9:22:15 GMT 3
You can finance upto 100 % of the budget with well connected local banks and individuals but if you cannot service your external debt the resulting inflation eventually will ripen to a full blown ... 5th Estate: The figures of "we can finance so much of our budget" are good for blowing the trumpet of jingoism and that's about it. See my previous posting on just the health sector. Since that posting, I've looked at the very latest figures, and they show that as at Jan 2012 about 87% of donor funding to that sector is not included in the budget. Just sticking to the Health sector, here's an idea of how nonsensical these "we can finance our own budget claims are". In 2009 (1) Kenya's expenditure on HIV/AIDS was $687 million.(2) Of that, $541 million came from the US Government and $87 million came from the Global Fund. (Please don't ask about Beloved China.) www.unaids.org/globalreport/documents/20101123_GlobalReport_full_en.pdfThat figure of $687 million is way, way more than the entire budget for Health in Kenya in that entire year. Obviously, we shouldn't have any problems financing 100% of our budget---as long as such small donations from friendly nations are kept off-budget. And the good thing about money that is not in the budget is that you can assume it just fell from the sky and so not be concerned with its source. No need to sell your soul or anything else for that matter. ;D Of the friendly nations ... I've lately been reading of some little-reported initiatives that Obama has in place for Kenya. One of these is a very comprehensive plan to make sure that we can feed ourselves. But starving has never bothered us as long as there are "exciting" discussions to be had on presidential candidates, who's defecting from what party, Miguna, who is out to finish whom .... ; so I'll save that one for when the next famine comes up, which should be in .... about 10 months or so, when we'll ask "the international community" to "do something in the interests of humanity". (I wonder: do we always produce new "begging brochures", or do we just use the ones from the last drought/famine?) Kazi iendelee. China, here we come. It all depends on which stats you are looking at to support an argument. You say that only $87 million came from the Global Fund in 2009 but in another report by the Global Fund, there is a claim to a disbursement of $204 million. portfolio.theglobalfund.org/en/Country/Index/KEN What you fail to recognise is that very little of this money is channeled directly to the government and is part of what is 'eaten' by the characters in the NGO sector who I cannot stand! So if you in your thinking this money will be taken away just because we are foolish enough to elect Ruto as our President, I am afraid you are WRONG.
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 15, 2012 15:22:41 GMT 3
It all depends on which stats you are looking at to support an argument. You say that only $87 million came from the Global Fund in 2009 but in another report by the Global Fund, there is a claim to a disbursement of $204 million. portfolio.theglobalfund.org/en/Country/Index/KEN No, it all depends on whether you can read or not. Go back to your own stats source (at above link) . What you will notice is that the $204 million is the total for HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria combined. Now place your cursor on the HIV/AIDS dot for 2009. You will also notice that funding for HIV/AIDS is the $87 million figure that I gave as having been spent in Kenya (by the Global Fund on HIV/AIDS in that year). By the way, why are you so concerned about this and not the $541 million from the US government (again, lest you get confused) just on HIV/AIDS (and which money went directly to GoK)? No, I don't think anything of the sort. You have to read again to get my point. But perhaps I am so wrong ... and my stats don't add up. ;D
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Post by 5thestate on Oct 15, 2012 19:15:01 GMT 3
That figure of $687 million is way, way more than the entire budget for Health in Kenya in that entire year. China, here we come. Facts and figures are stubborn animals, but naturally one can chose not to do the arithmetic and arrogantly assume all is well. I chose not to live in a parallel universe. “Primitive Energy” – I will say no more!
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 16, 2012 21:28:22 GMT 3
Just how did we survive the last ten years...you really must wonder. Indeed, I have been wondering, and I have spent time looking at all sorts of figures involving all sorts of countries and soures. Let me give you just one example---USG money coming to Kenya through. * In 2002 when Kibaki came into power, it was about $50 million per year. * It is now about $700 million per year. Looking at the US Congressional Budget and Appropriations figures, for 2012 Kenya will rank 7th or 8th in the world (three places up from one or two years ago) in terms of largesse from the US government. In 2002, we weren't even in the top 15. I may get to other countries and sources later, but how's that for a start?
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Post by kamalet on Oct 16, 2012 22:06:10 GMT 3
...and not a single road, hospital of power plant to show for it. 95% of the money to NGOS and activists for the AIDS money you were talking about earlier. And for your information it works to only 6% of the 2012 budget and was actually not factored in the US$ 17.4 billion budget.
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 16, 2012 23:12:53 GMT 3
...and not a single road, hospital of power plant to show for it. 95% of the money to NGOS and activists for the AIDS money you were talking about earlier. And for your information it works to only 6% of the 2012 budget and . He, he, he .. You are definitely a very funny guy, kamalet? By the way, how are your reading skills coming along? First milestone: be able to read your own source of stats. ;D Of course, not! If all the begging numbers, from all sources, were included in the budget, things wouldn'y look too pretty: you wouldn't be able to cite the Daily Nation's 5% and state that we are selling our souls! Definitely better to just consider it all as free money that falls from the sky and does things we wouldn't otherwise do.
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Post by kamalet on Oct 17, 2012 9:40:55 GMT 3
so knock off the 6% equivalent of our budget that the US will take out...what else do you have up your sleeve that will impoverish us if we do not vote for Raila??
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Post by jakaswanga on Oct 17, 2012 11:01:44 GMT 3
I can think of policy issues the nation of Kenya may choose to embark on as her priorities, which would incur the wrath of sanctions from the West. Eg, if we pursue our nuclear power ambitions with serious intent like the Iranians and North Koreans. {As far as the Ochillo Ayako commission goes, everybody knows that is a still-born scheme, but merely a tax-payer rip off, so it means nothing).
Sanctions from the West alone, does not instill enough fear in me. If it were a national consensus to go for nuclear power, I would argue we do, on public support, even if the whoLe OECD will will place us outside international banking based in the West. That defiance is called the price of self determination, and governing according to the peoples will.
What I will not argue is unnecessarily taking your country through sanctions. That is the category under which I place the Uhuruto candidacy. It is not worth the nations time to risk sanctions for the two chieftains of graft and ethnic mayhem. Even as we know for the majority of young Kenyans, life is already rock-bottom and it is difficult to see what further injury total sanctions would entail. For the middle class in their Toyotas, and the new tycoons in the villages called teachers with their KNUT-KUPPET funded Proboxes, it would be back to pre-history no doubt. It is therefore this, as mwalimu Ngugi abuses them, lazy middle class, which has to rise to defend their interests by outruling Uhuruto from the presidency.
The Kenyan middle class has neither the ideological nor street wit to face a Western led regime of sanctions even for 1 week. We are neo-colonials in mentality. Such must be thoroughly shy of challenging the boss.
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 17, 2012 15:30:21 GMT 3
so knock off the 6% equivalent of our budget that the US will take out...what else do you have up your sleeve that will impoverish us if we do not vote for Raila?? Now that you've reduced it to voting for Raila, you are back on safe ground. Just stay away from facts and figures, and you'll be OK.
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