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Post by JAHAATWACH on Feb 23, 2008 17:03:18 GMT 3
If you ask me, Kibaki has only three options:
The plausible one is to swallow his ego just as Raila Odinga and ODM have done and let ODM run away with its Irreducible minimum demands whose highlights are separation of State and Government and 50-50 public appointments.He may wish to secure ODM's cast-iron gaurantee on the safety of the Kikuyu diaspora.
If he is too proud, fearful or obstinate as PM thinks, then he must act this evening with a surprise on Kenya and the world. He can exercise his so called powers by radically reconstituting the government to accommodate ODM.
With help of NSIS, he can plagiarize ODM's shadow government and make the appointments(from Cabinet to Foreign Missions and Parastals to Armed Forces) that ODM would have problem denouncing. A 50-50 basis. Then he can direct Wako to kick start the Bomas Katiba for legislation within six months.This would be his selfish way of declaring Koffi Annan redundant.But he wont.
The other option is to go by the script of Jukwaa's right-wing posters Kamale and Dubois . See above post.
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Post by 50cents on Feb 23, 2008 18:26:33 GMT 3
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 23, 2008 18:58:56 GMT 3
Funny how core elements of the Bomas draft is coming into fruition so quickly! Funny how PM post has been rammed down PNU throats and R is getting power via the "back door" following the theft in Dec 07 Funny how Majimbo is now a fait accompli. I think R has sacrificed for the country immeasurbly and his vision is shaping events as they unfold Very funny Bumbling idiots
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Post by kamalet on Feb 23, 2008 22:30:35 GMT 3
Reading this thread is like listening to a stuck record. ODM fellows tralking to themselves about what they wish the world in Kenya should be according to the ODM bible. What all you fellows forget is that PNU and Kibaki also has a constituency that they answer to and that constituency is Kenyan however much you want to disagree with it.
The ODM proposal is bad for Kibaki, Kenya and the people that love this country. They know that any attempt at changing the law to accommodate an individual is wrong and I would not be surprised if this is what has bred that uncalled for suit in court.
It is very important that people in this forum realise that there are those people that do not agree or support the ODM position and that when these people write in Jukwaa they should never purport to speak on behalf of Kenyans. Personally I do not think Kibaki owes Raila anything including ceding any cabinet position to any of the thieves in ODM. But if it comes to that, and many PNU followers seem happy to agree, then it must be done in accordance with the law.
If Raila will be placated with a chief ministerial position, then if it is within the lay, then PNU will support it!
Meantime, do realise there is a government in place!
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Post by mzee on Feb 23, 2008 23:39:58 GMT 3
It was with the above attitude that PANU arrogantly insisted that ODM goes to court. We all know that it did and will not happen.
I will not be tired of reminding those who are in slumberland that its RAO who won the election and not the bandit president. I do not think that the bandit Kibaki owes Raila anything either but he does owe the people of Kenya. He stole the presidency from them and they are demanding it back for they want to place it in the hands of the rightful owner who as we all know is Raila Amolo Odinga.
As far as the government being in place:- I do believe it is in place in Central and parts of Eastern provinces. ODM rules the rest of the country only that they have not taken the opportunity to declare and parallel government. If they do we might go the Madagascar way.
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Post by kamalet on Feb 24, 2008 5:36:21 GMT 3
It was with the above attitude that PANU arrogantly insisted that ODM goes to court. We all know that it did and will not happen. Why shouldn't PNU be arrogant when ODM is even worse. ODM and its supporters including those in Jukwaa like playing the victim every time they are hit at claiming the others are arrogant. Well, you will also notice that ODM never seems to wear the same gloves when going for PNU and its supporters. This is politics Mzee, and in this game, you do not clean your hands before engaging.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 24, 2008 16:27:04 GMT 3
It was with the above attitude that PANU arrogantly insisted that ODM goes to court. We all know that it did and will not happen. Why shouldn't PNU be arrogant when ODM is even worse. ODM and its supporters including those in Jukwaa like playing the victim every time they are hit at claiming the others are arrogant. Well, you will also notice that ODM never seems to wear the same gloves when going for PNU and its supporters. This is politics Mzee, and in this game, you do not clean your hands before engaging. KamaleKibaki and the PNU lost the plot a long time ago. 60 days after the coup and today even Kibaki's closest supporters are wondering what they bought into. They have been screwed big time. In generations to come the Kibaki 2007 fiasco will be taught in schools as a lesson why political theft is bad even for the perpetrators. I have great pity for Kibaki. He actually thought he could pull it off. We told him it wasn't going to work. It won't. This week Kibaki will succumb to reality and Kenya will have a coalition government which will not be controlled by Kibaki and his chauvinist agenda. The curtain will fall this week. What was started on Dec 27, 07 will take a new path this week. And that is just the beginning. If you want to shed tears, do so now. Your old Kibaki is going to be a painting on the wall. You can keep it and hag it every morning. Nobody really cares. adongo
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 24, 2008 17:54:09 GMT 3
Irony of ironies is that the ODM agenda has been fast forwarded. The splitting of Executive authority - the creation of "two centers of power" will be realized. Lets see the sky fall.
The constitution WILL DEFINATELY BE CHANGED, more in line with Bomas, than not.
Majimbo is here! ECK reform!
Wow, in the end posterity will remininse on just how politically inane and insane, how ineffectual and inept, the political thugerry visited upon us by PNU in Dec 2007 was. gen kegs de othaya will go down in infamy. The social engineering he inadvertently implemented will level the playing field in Kenya, much to the chagrin of his loyalists!!
Na Bado!!
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 24, 2008 18:45:52 GMT 3
politics.nationmedia.com/inner.asp?pcat=NEWS&cat=TOP&sid=1530This crap has to stop. The "irreducible minimum" of some kind of executive PM as Ababu Namwamba put it the other day, is the least the ODM will accept. If Kibaki and his PNU don't like it, they can walk into oblivion. Good luck to them. The key word worrying them to death is that the PM will have supervisory powers on the cabinet. They want to keep stealing without oversight. It will not happen. Take it or leave it. Enuff of the BS. If they have a better option, they can pick it. They know they have none. Even the military option is dead. Kenyans will take back their country from these chauvinist thieves one way or the other. That too, they know. It is coming and it is here. Look how miserable the folks are. Ati they are the "government". What government? Listen, PNU should come into the coalition with hope and confidence. As it is they are being dragged into it yelling and screaming. When it happens they will look worse losers than they already are. That is a good thing for the country. adongo
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Post by JAHAATWACH on Feb 24, 2008 21:12:53 GMT 3
Ask me what would drive the Karua Four to respond to media gossips and hearsay narratives at a time when Kenya is anxiously waiting to exhale and I will tell you that it is panic attack.
Remember they acted dump last Friday evening when the media were prodding them to talk? Now on Sunday, they emerge, suddenly, to split our ears with fitina.My small Luo mind tells me that this is not a pre-emptive strike on Annan &Co. I am also convinced that it is not a stakes raising-bargain- hardening adventure. It doesn't sound Alfred Mutuaish to me either.
I am sure it is a panic attack because they impulsively acted the way they acted,when they knew better and the discerning Kenyans who recalls Annan's last brief knows otherwise. In their sense of urgency, I read uncertainty,fear and desperation of a status quo that is in denial typical of powers that be at the end of time.
I am also convinced that ODM has done its part and it is time to step back and let time and its fury take care of those standing between Kenya and its destiny.It is tempting to try and help the conservatives overcome the residual fear that is holding them back- including the fear of unknown but that would be naivety.
It bothers me, however,that the Government's stubbornness in this mediation process has striking similarity with the energy-sapping,adrenaline-pumping and politically lethal machinations of one Stephen Kalonzo Musyoka in the 2007 run-up to party primaries.I am therefore persuaded that it is Kalonzo Musyoka and not Mwai Kibaki who ODM should pay closer attention to.
I hazard to guess that it is because of the mysterious MoU Kibaki had with Kalonzo that Annan mediation effort is in its dicey phase.
-Jahaatwach
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Post by insidious on Feb 24, 2008 21:24:48 GMT 3
It was with the above attitude that PANU arrogantly insisted that ODM goes to court. We all know that it did and will not happen. Why shouldn't PNU be arrogant when ODM is even worse. ODM and its supporters including those in Jukwaa like playing the victim every time they are hit at claiming the others are arrogant. Well, you will also notice that ODM never seems to wear the same gloves when going for PNU and its supporters. This is politics Mzee, and in this game, you do not clean your hands before engaging. There you go again! Why can't you simply be pragmatic about the paralyzing situation? For who long will you hold the fort? Supplies have been cut of, the wary populace is at the fort's walls and the gate is being pounded by a mighty hammer of pressure from the disenfranchised, the regional voices and an international guarantees in the wings? In whose favor is it to defy that which is logical, reasonable, accurate and natural? In whose favor is it you hold the fort even at the cost of your intellect? Let's not kid ourselves Kamalet, something has to give and i hope it will be the politicians and not the country. Hold your position at your peril.
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Post by enigma on Feb 24, 2008 22:27:09 GMT 3
Irony of ironies is that the ODM agenda has been fast forwarded. The splitting of Executive authority - the creation of "two centers of power" will be realized. Lets see the sky fall. The constitution WILL DEFINATELY BE CHANGED, more in line with Bomas, than not. Majimbo is here! ECK reform! Wow, in the end posterity will remininse on just how politically inane and insane, how ineffectual and inept, the political thugerry visited upon us by PNU in Dec 2007 was. gen kegs de othaya will go down in infamy. The social engineering he inadvertently implemented will level the playing field in Kenya, much to the chagrin of his loyalists!! Na Bado!! While the constituion is going to be changed, let me remind you that it takes 2/3 to pass the draft in parliament. So lets see if 2/3 will be achieved when it comes to Majimbo. There are campaign gimmicks and then there are campaign gimmicks.
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Post by enigma on Feb 24, 2008 22:41:56 GMT 3
politics.nationmedia.com/inner.asp?pcat=NEWS&cat=TOP&sid=1530This crap has to stop. The "irreducible minimum" of some kind of executive PM as Ababu Namwamba put it the other day, is the least the ODM will accept. If Kibaki and his PNU don't like it, they can walk into oblivion. Good luck to them. The key word worrying them to death is that the PM will have supervisory powers on the cabinet. They want to keep stealing without oversight. It will not happen. Take it or leave it. Enuff of the BS. If they have a better option, they can pick it. They know they have none. Even the military option is dead. Kenyans will take back their country from these chauvinist thieves one way or the other. That too, they know. It is coming and it is here. Look how miserable the folks are. Ati they are the "government". What government? Listen, PNU should come into the coalition with hope and confidence. As it is they are being dragged into it yelling and screaming. When it happens they will look worse losers than they already are. That is a good thing for the country. adongo It is nonsensical to insist that a new government structure should not be reflected in the constitution. If section 2a could be repealed by a simple amendment, I don't see why parliament cannot do the same for the duties and functions of PM and his deputies and then pursue the mandate of comprehensive reforms in due course. In any case If Kibaki were to appoint a PM under the current constitution under a different set of circumstances, he would still need to give him a job description. So lets legitimize that 'job description' by way of a statutory instrument. Thats what I understand ODM to be asking for albeit under the adversarial aura of the negotiating table. These PNU hardliners don't speak for any ordinary Kenyan anymore.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 25, 2008 0:52:45 GMT 3
politics.nationmedia.com/inner.asp?pcat=NEWS&cat=TOP&sid=1530This crap has to stop. The "irreducible minimum" of some kind of executive PM as Ababu Namwamba put it the other day, is the least the ODM will accept. If Kibaki and his PNU don't like it, they can walk into oblivion. Good luck to them. The key word worrying them to death is that the PM will have supervisory powers on the cabinet. They want to keep stealing without oversight. It will not happen. Take it or leave it. Enuff of the BS. If they have a better option, they can pick it. They know they have none. Even the military option is dead. Kenyans will take back their country from these chauvinist thieves one way or the other. That too, they know. It is coming and it is here. Look how miserable the folks are. Ati they are the "government". What government? Listen, PNU should come into the coalition with hope and confidence. As it is they are being dragged into it yelling and screaming. When it happens they will look worse losers than they already are. That is a good thing for the country. adongo It is nonsensical to insist that a new government structure should not be reflected in the constitution. If section 2a could be repealed by a simple amendment, I don't see why parliament cannot do the same for the duties and functions of PM and his deputies and then pursue the mandate of comprehensive reforms in due course. In any case If Kibaki were to appoint a PM under the current constitution under a different set of circumstances, he would still need to give him a job description. So lets legitimize that 'job description' by way of a statutory instrument. Thats what I understand ODM to be asking for albeit under the adversarial aura of the negotiating table. These PNU hardliners don't speak for any ordinary Kenyan anymore. enigma I agree with you on the need for a constitutionalized (is that a new word) position for a PM in Kenya counter balancing the powers of the presidency. This debate has gone on for two decades and Kenyans have spoken on the matter. It is about time something concrete is done. The circumstances demand action NOW. And to have that office directly answerable to parliament where Kenyans through their M.P's can ask questions on matters that are important to them is phenomenal. With a PM in parliament facing public scrutiny, we will not have to do with arrogant ministers who are above the law and can lie to Kenyans endlessly on matters like Anglo Fleecing. Kenyans will have the opportunity to ask their PM questions relating to these kinds of activities. If such a person happens to be Raila Amolo Odinga, Kenyans are confident they will get frank and honest answers. Remember, ministries have never been "supervised". They are islands unto themselves. Muthaura, Secretary of the cabinet is their boss. As a civil servant Muthaura has no supervisory powers over the cabinet, except for the access to State House he offers to them. That will change. Kenya's PM will be accountable to to the republic and to the public in the National Assembly. Remember the president of Kenya never ever answers questions in Parliament. Actually never goes to parliament except for day one which for Kibaki in 2008 as the M.P for Othaya is a day he would rather forget. I think a situation where cabinet activities, actions, omissions and commissions can be scrutinized through a central executive office answerable to our National Assembly on a daily basis can only do our country a lot of good. It should matter little who occupies that office. I have heard all words like this is going to be the Tanzanian Model, French Model, German Model for a PM's office. Forgive me for running out of models. I will take the Kenyan model. It looks pretty good even with all the work we all have to do as citizens of our great nation. I think we need to expend more energy on how we can bring communities together. The level of ethnic and tribal animosity in the country is toxic. That is our problem as a country. Forget the models and think of the country. We can create something new. Something fresh. Something workable. I think we will. It will be called the Kenyan model. But anigma, how about if the PM was a woman. You would have to rewrite your piece. adongo
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Post by enigma on Feb 25, 2008 14:50:37 GMT 3
It is nonsensical to insist that a new government structure should not be reflected in the constitution. If section 2a could be repealed by a simple amendment, I don't see why parliament cannot do the same for the duties and functions of PM and his deputies and then pursue the mandate of comprehensive reforms in due course. In any case If Kibaki were to appoint a PM under the current constitution under a different set of circumstances, he would still need to give him a job description. So lets legitimize that 'job description' by way of a statutory instrument. Thats what I understand ODM to be asking for albeit under the adversarial aura of the negotiating table. These PNU hardliners don't speak for any ordinary Kenyan anymore. enigma I agree with you on the need for a constitutionalized (is that a new word) position for a PM in Kenya counter balancing the powers of the presidency. This debate has gone on for two decades and Kenyans have spoken on the matter. It is about time something concrete is done. The circumstances demand action NOW. And to have that office directly answerable to parliament where Kenyans through their M.P's can ask questions on matters that are important to them is phenomenal. With a PM in parliament facing public scrutiny, we will not have to do with arrogant ministers who are above the law and can lie to Kenyans endlessly on matters like Anglo Fleecing. Kenyans will have the opportunity to ask their PM questions relating to these kinds of activities. If such a person happens to be Raila Amolo Odinga, Kenyans are confident they will get frank and honest answers. Remember, ministries have never been "supervised". They are islands unto themselves. Muthaura, Secretary of the cabinet is their boss. As a civil servant Muthaura has no supervisory powers over the cabinet, except for the access to State House he offers to them. That will change. Kenya's PM will be accountable to to the republic and to the public in the National Assembly. Remember the president of Kenya never ever answers questions in Parliament. Actually never goes to parliament except for day one which for Kibaki in 2008 as the M.P for Othaya is a day he would rather forget. I think a situation where cabinet activities, actions, omissions and commissions can be scrutinized through a central executive office answerable to our National Assembly on a daily basis can only do our country a lot of good. It should matter little who occupies that office. I have heard all words like this is going to be the Tanzanian Model, French Model, German Model for a PM's office. Forgive me for running out of models. I will take the Kenyan model. It looks pretty good even with all the work we all have to do as citizens of our great nation. I think we need to expend more energy on how we can bring communities together. The level of ethnic and tribal animosity in the country is toxic. That is our problem as a country. Forget the models and think of the country. We can create something new. Something fresh. Something workable. I think we will. It will be called the Kenyan model. But anigma, how about if the PM was a woman. You would have to rewrite your piece. adongo About your last point.........We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Lets redress 27th of December first
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