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Post by kamalet on Jan 27, 2006 8:30:38 GMT 3
Job & Miguna,
Just by the way, are you able to quantify the total DIRECT taxes you paid to the Kenya Government in the year 2004 or 2005?
Well I can, and in the two years, I paid DIRECT taxes enough to provide education to 2 Starehe Boys for ever and includes a stipend for the boys if I had bought 2 Endowments at the school!! You will therefore appreciate my noise when my tax money is stolen.
If you ACTUALLY paid any taxes, then join my noise otherwise be satisfied with being referred to as "Foreign" Kenyans!
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Post by abdulmote on Jan 27, 2006 15:43:40 GMT 3
Kamale bwana, wacha huu mchezo! You are not trying to suggest that one is excluded from criticising one's own country's thefts simply by virtue of living in a "foreign" land. I wonder whether you have any idea how much money comes into the country from those very "foreigners" simply because they have a very strong connection with their motherland in one way or another, your "DIRECT" taxes aside? The issue of "how much" one 'dierctly' pays to the KR is absolutely irrelevant and absurd to suggest at all!
Chill out man!
Kenya ni yetu kama vile ilivyo yako, upende usipende.
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Post by miguna on Jan 27, 2006 19:58:48 GMT 3
Kamau,
It does not matter the amount paid. Even our mothers, sisters, fathers and other relatives in the Kenyan villages pay taxes every day in various forms. Our indignations against looting and corruption cannot be tempered based on the amount of taxes paid. By the way, even non-Kenyans (which neither of us is) are entitled to condemn these government perpertated scams with all their energies....It's not good enough to suggest that "so and so stole less or more" and therefore it justifies silence on our/their part. That has never been my strategy. All you need to do is just read my articles. However, if you have drenched yourself so wet/deep into these scams, please give my articles glorious passes.
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Post by job on Jan 27, 2006 20:45:21 GMT 3
Kamale,
Let me tell you something buddy, I can read your bottomline....stop this naked tribal chauvinism. Paying taxes is not a monopoly of one tribe in Kenya.
Neither is it a monopoly of one individual whose taxes can educate two Starehe students.
This topic was about Anglo-fleecers, looting Kenya dry. You have veered into personal and petty issues in an attempt to detour from the issue at hand.
By name calling or branding other fellow Kenyans as, "foreign" Kenyans or 'Kenyan Tourists'/KT or whatever,.....doesn't make them less Kenyan than you,...does it?
By bragging or flaunting about how much taxes you DIRECTLY pay to KRA doesn't make you more Kenyan than others,...does it?
Even the poor peasants who buy basic commodities super-taxed through VAT are PAYING TAXES and have all the right to make NOISE.
If by any chance flaunting how much tax you pay and how many STAREHE BOYS that can educate does make you feel better, then feel free.
You may just as well be shocked and humbled to realize that the DIRECT tax tabs of many of those Kenyans you refer to as "foreign", many who appropriately choose not to flaunt and publicize them, is not paltry after all.
For your information if you think you control a monopoly of investments or property ownership in Kenya, you're dead wrong. Many people based overseas, pay property taxes, rates (for both land & property) & other duties for numerous PROPERTIES and businesses (some professsional practices) spread across the nation to KRA and to the respective local governments as I told you earlier.
Besides KRA, those foreign Kenyans also pay rates to numerous local councils. Aren't those taxes or what are they?
Some didn't start paying such taxes since going abroad for your information. You think they all never owned even a house in Kenya until venturing into the diaspora?. Quit such stereotypes,.....I can read between them.
Now that we are out here, you assume we don't invest anymore in Kenya because we have become FOREIGNERS? Besides property taxes, some of those Foreign Kenyans used to pay Income tax then and STILL DO today as they have actively running and thriving enterprises. ................................Tell me something else Bwana Mdosi.
Any discussion about corruption activities of KIBAKI, AWORI, MURUNGI, MURUNGARU, MWIRARIA who are all PUBLIC OFFICIALS, answerable to the PUBLIC, should not be confused with petty, private and personal issues some bordering on ethnic-based chauvinistic braggadiosis.
So humble yourself and let other taxpayers make noise, without displaying ARROGANT ATTITUDES here. YOU ARE NOT THE ONE TO DECIDE WHICH KENYANS NEED TO MAKE MORE NOISE SINCE THEY FEEL THE PAIN OF PAYING TAXES.
TAKE BACK YOUR CHALLENGE, all Kenyans have a stake in their public funds, irrespective of where they abode.
We know there is a prevailing attitude amongst some people who think and assume that other Kenyans don't pay taxes,....... just as KIBAKI said to some locals while visiting North Eastern Province.
Martha Karua chose to reffer to the same people as"Refugees" "Foreigners"& "Aliens",...a mindset that is increasingly becoming more and more displayed by certain quarters who naively assume they have a monopoly on PAYING TAXES.
Go slowly my buddy.
nice day, "local" Kenyan.
unedited another taxpayer job
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Post by miguna on Jan 27, 2006 23:56:53 GMT 3
Job:
As the saying goes - "they can run, but they can't hide"; at least not forever..... -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LDP demands reopening of Parliament By BENSON AMOLLO
Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) has demanded that President Mwai Kibaki recalls Parliament within 14 days or have legislators resume parliamentary business without his consent.
The party has also opened a petition book for the legislators who want Parliament reconvened to append their signatures to force the President to recall the House, citing a national crisis following the recent revelations of multi-billion shilling scandals.
.... “Unless the President reconvenes Parliament on or before the aforesaid date, members will meet in Parliament on February 14, 2006 at 2.30pm to conduct business. The Speaker will be accordingly notified by a letter signed by all the members urging such a meeting,” said Kamotho.
The leaders said neither the Cabinet nor the Kenya Anti-Corruption Commission has the capacity to execute a thorough probe into the scandal and other rip-offs “particularly when senior members of the Cabinet are themselves named.”
Pointing out that the scandal was not a Cabinet affair, Raila said Kenyans will not allow the Government to trivialise issues and that “for the government to suggest that John Githongo should come and help shed more light in the scandal is as misplaced as it amounts blame game.”
He questioned the credibility and ability of KACC Director Aaron Ringera to carry out investigations into the scandal as claimed by a Cabinet committee led by Lands Minister Amos Kimunya on Thursday. He said that whereas Ringera can prosecute such cases, it is ridiculous to want to portray him as very able to handle a matter that is deep inside the Government he is serving. “It is like sending a dog to go and catch a lion. Although the dog can have so many teeth and sharp indeed, but it can never be able to catch a lion,” said the former Roads Minister.
Raila also warned that the former PS for Governance and Ethics who reportedly presented a dossier profiling the Anglo Leasing scandal to President Kibaki last year would be putting his life at risk should he present himself to the country as called upon by the Government.
And Kamotho added: “The invitation by the Government to Githongo to come back and hand over the information in his possession to KACC all expense paid is a red herring. The information available to the Government from the Treasury, the Office of the President and the Department of Immigration which led to the arrest and arraignment in court of two Permanent Secretaries and the suspension of senior Government officials in the Office of the President and the A-G’s chambers is sufficient to get to the bottom of the scandal.” ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post by job on Jan 28, 2006 0:16:19 GMT 3
THE GITHONGO VS-NGUNYI CONNECTION; A 2.2 MILLION SHS CONSULTATION
FROM THE STANDARD ---------------------------- It’s high treason for Githongo ----------------------------------------- By Biketi Kikechi
John Githongo should be repatriated from Britain and charged with high treason, a document allegedly commissioned by the Government proposes.
The revelations emerged as Githongo accepted an invitation to come and testify before Parliament’s Public Accounts Committee on the Anglo Leasing Scandal.
In a statement he sent to media houses yesterday evening, Githongo said, "I am in receipt of an official invitation to appear before the PAC dated January 23, 2006 and signed by the clerk of the National Assembly of Kenya Mr S. W. Ndindiri.
"The request is to appear before the committee to ‘give further evidence as the issues were raised when (I served) as Permanent Secretary for Governance and Ethics.’
"I have accepted this invitation and we are finalising the modalities and dates."
But according to the dossier LDP released yesterday, Githongo will face treason charges if he makes good his promise.
Titled Anglo Leasing: Some Thoughts and bearing the name of political scientist Mutahi Ngunyi as its author, the secret dossier on the Githongo damage, was read to the press by Liberal Democratic Party Secretary for Legal Affairs Otieno Kajwang, yesterday.
The document’s author asks for a fee of Sh2.2 million on consultancy services to counter the damaging information unleashed by Githongo.
Contacted, however, Ngunyi said he is not aware of the document and has not authored any.
It says of Githongo: "He released the Anglo Leasing report when he was under oath of secrecy and to do so to foreigners is treasonable," the report says.
"Githongo has arrogated himself a high moral ground. He is telling the world that ‘you are bad and he is good’. You need to deflate him. You need to cast him as an over enthusiastic officer with good intentions but completely naÔve. But more fundamentally, you must criminalise what he is doing."
The author of the dossier warns that in the court of public opinion, the government is "guilty as charged".
"The President is implicated directly or otherwise as per the Githongo dossier. This is why we must interpret public anger as an indirect assault on the President, not the implicated ministers… we must not attempt to resolve this scam, not before the 2007 elections."
The document also advises the government to release the Goldenberg report in a "mirror image tactic" that will "infuriate and confuse" and recommends that the government must not fire or suspend the implicated politicians.
"They form a ring around the President. To remove them is to expose Kibaki. They must therefore remain in place and take the blame while inside. If you remove them, the public will inevitably go for the President demanding his resignation as well."
At the same LDP has threatened to mobilise MPs and re-open parliament in three weeks time should the President decline to reconvene the House.
The party yesterday urged all like-minded MPs to sign a petition book to be opened at Parliament buildings next week to pressurise Kibaki to re-open the House.
LDP urged all MPs to sign the petition urging the President to re-convene parliament as a matter of urgency but not later than February 14.
Party leader Raila Odinga scoffed at Lands Minister Amos Kimunya’s call that Githongo returns to clear Anglo Leasing scandal allegations against the government.
Raila said it was another ploy by the government to buy time and divert attention from the gravity of the matter.
"Grave matters need to be dealt with the seriousness they deserve and that is why we want parliament to be re-convened without further delay," said Raila.
The party also found it curious that 35 Ministers and Assistant Ministers could rally behind the Vice President to counter the Anglo Leasing story collectively.
"The scandal referred to was not a cabinet affair and to make matters worse, the Cabinet has no capacity to lead any investigations into the scandal when senior members are involved," said Secretary General Joseph Kamotho.
"Parliament being the custodian of all public resources must seize the Anglo Leasing scam and as the peoples watch dog deal with it satisfactorily and finally," said Kamotho.
The LDP MPs said should the President fail to re-open parliament, they will notify by a letter signed by all members telling him to start business on February 14, at 2.30 pm.
Ngunyi and Githongo go a long way back. In 1998, Ngunyi’s NGO — Series for Alternative Research in East Africa — engaged Githongo to edit a regional political economy magazine, East African Alternatives.
The magazine folded after an audit instigated by the lead donor Ford Foundation found suspected misappropriation and collusion on the part of Ngunyi, who was executive director of Sareat and Dr Jonathan Moyo, who was the programme officer at the Ford Foundation in charge of disbursing the resources to the NGO.
They have both been sued and the matter is still in court. It is known that the Ford Foundation has accepted Githongo’s offer to be a prosecution witness in the case.
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Post by job on Jan 30, 2006 3:24:29 GMT 3
Folks, I stumbled upon this opinion by Saint Koigi Wa Wamwere , Kibaki's assistant minister for misinformation, in The Daily Nation.See some selected excerpts (just for my argument)below, not entire article; Seize the moment and slay the dragon Story by KOIGI WA WAMWERE Publication Date: 01/30/2006 Personally, and as a member of Government, I have been, I am and will always be against corruption. It has been the root-cause of our dictatorship, poverty, tribalism and inhumanity to one another. This week, we have read extracts from the report of John Githongo dubbed as "The Truth". While I admit it has shed a little more light on Anglo Leasing, calling one-sided evidence the truth is a bit dishonest and untruthful. Why does Mr Githongo accuse some ministers of a cover-up if he knew the truth? Didn’t they block his way to the truth? Extracts from the Githongo report cannot be the truth – only some, and even then uncorroborated. Were the Githongo Report the whole truth, nothing but the truth, we would need no trial. Just herd the accused into prison. It galls me to hear corrupt people, undergoing or awaiting trial for graft preaching and condemning others for corruption. Their noise can only be to camouflage their own guilt. Due to our ethnic biases, Kenya has become a nation with our good and their bad corruption. Consequently, a Kenyan will loudly condemn corruption of one while turning a blind eye to the corruption of another. Because of our selective judgment of corruption, to thoroughly and conclusively investigate, prosecute and punish corruption without fear or favour, Kenya will need the assistance of legal experts from abroad. What has the President to do with all this? He is the ultimate keeper of the law. He is the ultimate prosecutor of all crime, including corruption. The buck stops with him. While people want all these cancers killed, opposition and sections of the media want only the Anglo Leasing removed. Why? Don’t listen to Mr Raila Odinga asking you to dissolve the Government. He wants to save from prosecution those who will help him get power. He too wants to inherit networks of corruption. Even God is not wise enough, so says the Yoruba proverb. Mr Wamwere is the MP for Subukia and assistant minister for Information and Communications. This is a purely personal opinion ......................and then zoom back to an article in The Standard in 2003, on the same CORRUPTION SUBJECT make your own judgement without necessarily putting Koigi on trial through the media, or on a one sided account of the Norwegian government whom Koigi later accused of lying. "Koigi risks Norway jail term over welfare support"www.eastandard.net/headlines/news0405200308.htmKoigi risks Norway jail term over welfare support By Pauline Kageni 2003. Subukia MP Koigi wa Wamwere risks being imprisoned in Norway for continuing to earn welfare support money to the tune of Sh45,000 per month even after being elected an MP.According to a Norwegian news group, VG Nett, Koigi continues to receive 4,500 Kroners, the equivalent of Sh45,000, being welfare support given to the invalid. The paper claims Koigi is not an invalid to be earning that money. He, therefore, risks a jail sentence and a further penalty of paying back all the money. VG Nett said Koigi suffered a head-on collision in the year 2000 whereupon he was fined 3,000 Kroners (Sh30,000) for reckless driving.Koigi was later declared an invalid and received welfare support of 200,000 Kroners (Sh2 million). Less than a year later, Koigi got a grant from the Foreign Ministry to undertake a two-year research project in the United States. An administrator of the Norwegian Centre for Humans Rights said that Koigi did not have the scientific competence to undertake the research project.Instead, the report said, Koigi was holding rallies and campaigns back in Kenya.Two weeks after being declared an MP in Kenya, Koigi wrote a letter to the Norwegian Minister for Development Hilde Frafjord Johnson and the Norwegian Government for 6.5 million Kroners (Sh650 million) listing four projects, three of which are in his constituency. The minister turned down the proposal. In a letter from the Norwegian Ambassador to Kenya, Kjell Herald Dalen, Koigi was advised to clear up the matter with both the Social Security Office and the taxation authorities in Norway in order not to damage his reputation and credibility. .................................the crux of the matter is that the hypocricy displayed even by Koigi himself who elects to attempt removing a speck in others eyes when he himself has a logs in his eyes is buffling. It should also be noted that in 2002, Koigi held a harambee in Baltimore, Maryland to solicit funds from students and Kenyan citizens living there towards his NARC 2002 Subukia campaigns, which was graced by Kenyans from all corners of the country. I can assure you there are dissapointed Kenyans who feel let down by this man's politic deviation from nationalistic politics into ethnic sycophancy. He sang his way in praise/defense of Kibaki until he landed an Assistant Ministerial job. Now he intends to defend his job and hopes for a promotion. I nonetheless applaud him in at least recognizing that the buck stops somewhere at the Hill, and that heads need to roll now. On his prophesy about the intentions of other politicians, I'll suggest to him that he has no moral authority (in my opinion) to advice on that,.........as an equally corrupt insider, hell bent to keep his job, perks, and a host of luxuries that he doesn't have to squeeze from the Norwegian tax-payers anymore,....... let him speak for himself. No Sir, you can't speak on behalf of majority Kenyans on this one. Keep your advice Mr. Koigi, we shall decide ourselves who the wolves are!unedited. job
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