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Post by maina on Apr 19, 2006 1:31:31 GMT 3
I am saddened by the death of at least three people that I had met or knew well in that marsabit tragedy. We can all sit here and analyse these people or even demonise them. But we must not fail to see what they had set out to do. They were not going for a meaningless homecoming party but to initiate a process that may have ended the strife in northern Kenya. We can dismiss this as propaganda, bit some of us will not ignore the fact that behind the scenes activities had brought leaders from the area that have in the past been blamed on these same leaders. It is a shame that we can reduce the recognition of some of the leaders merely because they belong to a political camp we do not agree with! Finally, this essay by an ex-kamiti resident demonising a previous resident of the same place is interesting! Why were these people incacerated? Was it for their own benefit or that of Kenyans? When they were arraigned, detained, jailed etc what exactly were they sacrificing their lives for? That the initiator of this thread is no longer in exile but is earning his keep in his motherland after many years is an indicator of the gains this country has today. If it is because the suffering they underwent that he is now home, then he should acknowledge these gains. Finally, it must be clear that the struggle strategy by some of these people was never for a common cause but individual pursuits if people suffering at the same time can be so different in their view of the gains today!! Very good Kamale.................very good- my point exactly! It is amazing how there is so much diversity of mind as well as misconceptions. Not everything has to blow up! Maina -unedited- |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2006 4:23:29 GMT 3
Some others have said it, but why must we all mourn for the most privileged Kenyans when they pass? Let their loved ones and friends mourn them and that is enough already. Stop the double standards. Why are their lives more valuable than the lives of Kenyans who die every day from poverty? Like race and racism, we are supposed to feel very sorry when white lives are lost, but when people of colour fall, well who cares? There are more where those came from. All life is precious, including the lives of those people who died on their way to "broker peace". But I won't waste one moment feeling bad for them. If they had been people who had worked to ensure that every day people's lives aren't lost in vain, then I would care. If it is African culture to feel bad that they died then Kenyans should go around feeling rotten every day for the thousands of innocents who perish because of the greed of others. Unlike millions in Kenya at least these people got to live their lives with some sort of dignity and lots and lots of privilege. I just really hope that there is a hell because some if not all of them are surely there.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 19, 2006 7:47:26 GMT 3
Some others have said it, but why must we all mourn for the most privileged Kenyans when they pass? Let their loved ones and friends mourn them and that is enough already. Stop the double standards. Why are their lives more valuable than the lives of Kenyans who die every day from poverty? Like race and racism, we are supposed to feel very sorry when white lives are lost, but when people of colour fall, well who cares? There are more where those came from. All life is precious, including the lives of those people who died on their way to "broker peace". But I won't waste one moment feeling bad for them. If they had been people who had worked to ensure that every day people's lives aren't lost in vain, then I would care. If it is African culture to feel bad that they died then Kenyans should go around feeling rotten every day for the thousands of innocents who perish because of the greed of others. Unlike millions in Kenya at least these people got to live their lives with some sort of dignity and lots and lots of privilege. I just really hope that there is a hell because some if not all of them are surely there. This surely is rather lame thinking! No one is asking you to mourn these people whatever their station in life. Mourning like several things I know are a personal preference and must be premised on something one knows. If you do not know why Kenyans would flock Afraha stadium or Marsabit stadium to mourn departed leaders, then try and plead ignorance and you could be excused! But I won't waste one moment feeling bad for them. If they had been people who had worked to ensure that every day people's lives aren't lost in vain, then I would care.Those are your words Kathuure- you simply have no idea what their missions was. So why should you mourn/cry/weep??? If you wish to shoot from the hip, make sure the pistol is way infront of your hip - elsewhere it could hurt you!!! |
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Post by aeichener on Apr 19, 2006 9:22:12 GMT 3
Kamalet: she really hit an oozing, inflamed spot with you, didn't she? Don't begrudge her for that; rather think about curing the sore.
Sincerely,
Alexander
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Post by job on Apr 19, 2006 22:58:31 GMT 3
Ladies & Gentlemen, Kamale says, I'll quote; " I am saddened by the death of at least three people that I had met or knew well in that marsabit tragedy". Mr Kamale,...Could the three be Mirugi Kariuki, Major David Macharia Njoroge, and Captain Joseph Maina ? Thank you very much Kathure for bringing forth the element of DOUBLE STANDARDS to this issue and recognizing that all lives are important,...not just the three being mourned by Kamale, ...not even the rest of the 14 crash victims,.......but all the innocent victims that die from neglect and poverty perpetuated by inept and corrupt governments. Incompetent and tribalistic governments such as Kibaki's NARC. Kamale, no one will restrict you from mourning, but you need to recognize that even those not priviledged like those innocent civilian demonstrators killed by police, or those dying from ethnic clashes, poverty (hunger), AIDS or Malaria also have souls. To illustrate my point, I will walk you down memory lane, to your very own words here in Jukwaa,.......exhibiting your sensitivity to departed souls of your fellow countrymen and women. Remember the shoot to kill order from the Office of the President? Remember the police murders of civilians (including school children) in Kisumu, Likoni etc? Remember this thread; jukwaa.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1130886478First let me quote from our good buddy Kamale, " 4 kenyans die in Kisumu, and we have people we all think are educated (in Jukwaa) calling this MASS MURDER of LUOS!! If only there was similar condemnation for the "other murderers" of the Luo community such as AIDS, Malaria etc., since these kill more Luos in a day than the unwarranted mass murder by the Kenyan police whilst totally preventable!" Kamale then proceeded to sum up his beautiful arguments,........ " Is the scourge of AIDs preventable? Yes if you wear a condom.
Is the scourge of Malaria preventable? Yes if you use treated nets.
Is the political violence we see preventable? Yes if we respect other people's democratic space.
Could the deaths in Kisumu have been preventable? Yes if the police had followed orders on how to quell the crowd trouble.
Could the injuries sustained been avoided? Yes if these FOOLS could have allowed Tuju's 25 people to attend the rally!
Abdulmote - is this so difficult to comprehend?
What you are asking me is to feel sorry for an idiot who goes to have unprotected sex and contracts AIDS - huu si ugonjwa wa ng'ombe - ni wa binadamu!" Are you still on the same planet with us or not. Was your conscience suddenly injected with a dose of sensitivity by the deaths of the three you're now mourning? Watch your language; you are a parent, diseases are not confined to idiots, and protected sex is not a guarantee for not contracting HIV (for your information there are dying AIDS kids who've never had sex at all) Lastly, all lives are precious, no matter what tribe, race or color one is. Even the poor and neglected Northern Kenyaners have precious souls. Job |
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Post by kamalet on Apr 20, 2006 9:32:31 GMT 3
Job,
Unlike you, I do not have a small brain that only sees things in a tribal prism. FYI, I do not even know the pilots, but YES I new Guracha (as his his house captain when he was a much younger student), I knew Godana from the Uhuru campaign days and the only kikuyu I knew was Mirugi who I had the pleasure of meeting a couple of times. So quit your little tribal thinking.
As I said, kathuure has a freedom to mourn if she wishes or to rant if that is what she wants. My beef with her is the level of ignorance she displays in a blinded effort to support something she has no idea about!!
Kamale
PS. You really outdid yourself on this one Job
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Post by aeichener on Apr 20, 2006 10:13:33 GMT 3
No one is asking you to mourn these people whatever their station in life. Mourning like several things I know are a personal preference and must be premised on something one knows. That's how I see and feel it too. Well said, Kamalet. But it's a very un-African way of thinking, as you must be aware. Reason one is sheep mentality (didn't you so astutely write "flock"?  ), and reason two is Kenya's prime national character trait: hypocrisy. Alexander |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2006 15:57:31 GMT 3
Kamalet, nothing that Job said was tribal. I don't care if big shots who partake in the oppression of others are from my village or even my relatives. If they have blood on their hands then good riddence to them.
Trying to dismiss my position on these issues by labeling me ignorant and engaged in a rant is just a thinly veiled display of your disdain for my opinion because I'm a woman. We rant do we? In case you haven't noticed, ignorance is not a word that can describe me.
People will flock to stadiums to mourn people who exploited them for the same reasons they vote the evil people into office in the first place. Have you ever heard of the notion that those with power manipulate ordinary folks through the media, education, religion and so on.
If you are mourning that is fine. But don't force the whole country to mourn. If I drop dead today, I won't expect you to mourn me. After all it would be ridiculous since you don't know me. Or should we only mourn the rich and powerful. The day a person like Mandela dies I will mourn.
I see that our president and his buddies want us to pray on friday. Pray for what? For them I suppose. We should have a day of national prayer every day for the suffering tormented millions of Kenyas. I for sure aint praying for no oppressors other than asking the Creator to please remove them from our midst.
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Post by aeichener on Apr 20, 2006 16:49:46 GMT 3
We should have a day of national prayer every day for the suffering tormented millions of Kenyas. I for sure aint praying for no oppressors other than asking the Creator to please remove them from our midst. Excellently said ! Alexander |
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Post by job on Apr 20, 2006 18:44:36 GMT 3
Kamale, You know very well you cannot get away with this. It is very easy to belittle others in cyberspace, hiding from whatever armchair you sit, but for sure you cannot succeed. I don't think you will ever in your lifetime come close to possessing any authority to call me a small brain. One thing constant about you is that you are a tribal (Gikuyu) and male -chauvinist, plain and simple. A very arrogant yet ignorant one indeed. You are quick to display loss only when it is affects your fellow "supremacists". I will repeat, .........you are insensitive to the loss of other nationals such as those murdered by police in Kisumu and Likoni, or those dying from hunger. So don't even try to solicit for sympathy when tragedy affects some privileged friends of yours, just as Kibaki is doing. Didn't you call murdered civilians fools- who should have stayed home to avoid dying!. Barnacles! The biggest tribalist in Jukwaa still remains Kamale. As for brains,....... my brother keep trying very hard,.....you may just have a big head with very negligible gray matter. You seriously have nothing to brag about. That I will tell you over again. An adult who thinks HIV/AIDS is a disease confined to Idiots within a single tribe in a single country in the world is surely a pinhead-brain Idiot himself. Kamale, for your information I have diagnosed and treated Kenyans from all corners of the nation for AIDS related ailments, .....including those from your Riruta/Dagoreti base. You need to grow up. Go back to this thread below and judge for yourself how brainy you are when you said such stupid things; jukwaa.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1130886478I will continue to criticize tribalists like Kibaki, Michuki and yourself each time I get a chance, so get used to it. As for mourning,...I will mourn the Kenyans dying everyday as a result of bad /poor governance by incompetent, corrupt, tribalistic and useless political leadership. peace. Job |
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Post by aeichener on Apr 20, 2006 19:04:16 GMT 3
Whew: One of the worst tribalists in Jukwaa (who immediately grows fetters to both sides of his eyes as soon as tribal isues come into the game) who now dares call another one "tribalist". Kamalet may appear to many as a defender of the status quo, but a tribalist he is definitely not. Contrary to YOU, Job, who is an especially shining example of this vice, notwithstanding all his formal edumacation.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
A.
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), and reason two is Kenya's prime national character trait: hypocrisy.