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Post by mank on Sept 23, 2010 2:55:35 GMT 3
Mank .... Now my understanding is that prior to this date or by this date, there will be a process of "dissolution" of the National Assembly and then within 60 days of the dissolution, an election under the current constitution will be held. "a process of dissolution". Hhmmm! Got it!
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Post by kamalet on Sept 23, 2010 9:23:35 GMT 3
Ok so we engage in hair splittings when the KATIBA says clearly the second tuesday of the August of 2012. The latest Bunge will break will be 13th JUne 2012 but most likely March 2012. That is the plain situation as I see it. This seems to be the cause of all confusion: 101. (1) A general election of members of Parliament shall be held on the second Tuesday in August in every fifth year.This in my mind can only mean the elections held in the fifth year after the completion of the term of the current National Assembly or until the national assembly is dissolved which ever comes earlier.
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Post by enigma on Sept 23, 2010 21:03:39 GMT 3
Ok so we engage in hair splittings when the KATIBA says clearly the second tuesday of the August of 2012. The latest Bunge will break will be 13th JUne 2012 but most likely March 2012. That is the plain situation as I see it. This seems to be the cause of all confusion: 101. (1) A general election of members of Parliament shall be held on the second Tuesday in August in every fifth year.This in my mind can only mean the elections held in the fifth year [glow=red,2,300]after the completion [/glow]of the term of the current National Assembly or until the national assembly is dissolved which ever comes earlier.The highlighted phrase is a figment of your imagination. The fifth year is 2012 i.e 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011.....2012. The election will be held on the second tuesday of the august thereof.
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Post by kamalet on Sept 24, 2010 8:28:45 GMT 3
This seems to be the cause of all confusion: 101. (1) A general election of members of Parliament shall be held on the second Tuesday in August in every fifth year.This in my mind can only mean the elections held in the fifth year [glow=red,2,300]after the completion [/glow]of the term of the current National Assembly or until the national assembly is dissolved which ever comes earlier.The highlighted phrase is a figment of your imagination. The fifth year is 2012 i.e 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011.....2012. The election will be held on the second tuesday of the august thereof. Enigma A figment of my imagination??? May be so, but then would you kindly tell me what you understand the Transitional clauses that refer to the current National Assembly's end of term to mean? Are you implying that the constitution is in effect inconsistent with itself? I asked earlier when the term of the current term of the National Assembly ends - if you answer this, then I am certain it cannot be June 2012! You cannot read Section 101 in isolation of the Transition Clauses!
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Post by mtumishiman on Sept 24, 2010 15:46:41 GMT 3
This finespun and word-splitting is a vain exercise. Just like the uncertainty surrounding the date of promulgation, the election date will be determined once CIC is put in place. Mischief-makers and naysayer will once again get their dose of shock and the country will move on to better things.
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Post by mnyaparaone on Sept 26, 2010 8:13:46 GMT 3
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Suspension of provisions of New Constitution are provided in the Sixth Schedule.........
2. (1) The following provisions of this Constitution are suspended until the final announcement of all the results of the first elections for Parliament under this Constitution––------------------- 2 (c) Articles 129 to 155 of Chapter Nine, except that the provisions of the Chapter relating to the election of the President shall apply to the first general elections under this Constitution.
This is the article that retains the provisions of Chapter Nine of the new katiba to oversee the forth coming elections.
*********************************************************************** Chapter Nine provides for when the elections will be held.....
Election of the President 136. (1) The President shall be elected by registered voters in a national election conducted in accordance with this Constitution and any Act of Parliament regulating presidential elections. (2) An election of the President shall be held––– (a) on the same day as a general election of Members of Parliament, being the second Tuesday in August, in every fifth year; or (b) in the circumstances contemplated in Article 146.
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The effective date of the new Katiba has no power of reducing or increasing the term of the existing parliament....
National Assembly 10. The National Assembly existing immediately before the effective date shall continue as the National Assembly for the purposes of this Constitution for its unexpired term
The existing parliament has to serve the full term (December 30,2012)..... The elections will be carried out in 2012 as contemplated in the New Katiba...... The sixty days window within which the elections has to be held is calculated having the expiry date of the existing parliament in mind (30 Dec,2012). So sixty days before that the president is supposed to dissolve parliament. The second Tuesday in August within that window period when parliament dissolution takes place is when the elections shall take place.
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It is possible to run for president(Executive) at the same time be a running candidate for member of Legislature (Parliament, County Posts e.g Governor).... There is no provision stopping such a path from being taken. The issue is that you cannot be both at the same time. You have to pick one i.e if you win in more than one race.
But,
One cannot run for legislature and at the same time be a member of the Judiciary e.g Judge ... the new katiba is very clear on this one..
137 (2) A person is not qualified for nomination as a presidential candidate if the person— (a) owes allegiance to a foreign state; or (b) is a public officer, or is acting in any State or other public office.
************************************************************************* It seems to me some people don't understand the meaning of unexpired term.... Whether it refers to the unexpired term in the old constitution or unexpired term in the new constitution. This is an issue of semantics.
I find the new Katiba easy to understand but I still have my doubts if Kenyan courts are up to the task. Time will tell.
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Post by mank on Sept 26, 2010 20:36:09 GMT 3
....This is the article that retains the provisions of Chapter Nine of the new katiba to oversee the forth coming elections.
*********************************************************************** Chapter Nine provides for when the elections will be held.....
Election of the President 136. (1) The President shall be elected by registered voters in a national election conducted in accordance with this Constitution and any Act of Parliament regulating presidential elections. (2) An election of the President shall be held––– (a) on the same day as a general election of Members of Parliament, being the second Tuesday in August, in every fifth year; or (b) in the circumstances contemplated in Article 146. How do you reconcile the following part of the sixth schedule with everything you have said: *********************************************************************** Elections and by-elections9. (1) The first elections for the President, the National Assembly, the Senate, county assemblies and county governors under this Constitution shall be held at the same time, within sixty days after the dissolution of the National Assembly at the end of its term. [/color] ***********************************************************************
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Post by mnyaparaone on Sept 26, 2010 22:00:25 GMT 3
**************************************************************** @ Mank, There seems to be an issue with clause that you have brought up. Lets digest the claims in the section of the clause you highlighted i.e "within sixty days after the dissolution of the National Assembly at the end of its term."
[/font][/u] *************************************** First claim, "Within sixty days after the dissolution of the National Assembly" The end of the term for the National Assembly is 30 Dec, 2012. Sixty days before that will be October 31,2012. Which happens to come a month after the scheduled date in new constitution i.e (136 (2)(a)). I see now where you coming from with your argument and I have to admit I had not calculated the days before to see this issue. I believe the issue can be solved amicably by having the dissolution of the National Assembly come earlier in year 2012 than the sixty days contemplated by the new Katiba. By my calculations it will have to be 134 days before Dec 30,2012. **************************************************** Second claim "at the end of its term." The end of the term for the National Assembly is 30th Dec,2012. The elections will be conducted before this date. ********************************************************* Its good that the National Accord is still in effect because if the National Coalition fails then that would trigger a new elections which Kibaki cannot vie for. The two principals have to solve this matter of uncertainty of election date or the could trigger a more crises for the new constitution. Lets see how things will progress. Thanks for showing me this inconsistency mank. ******************************************************
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Post by kamalet on Sept 27, 2010 8:25:01 GMT 3
Mnyaparaone
First Mank has pointed our the correct section of the law that will guide the date of the next elections.
Secondly you need to look at closely at the phrases "within 60 days after the disolution of the national assembly" and "at the end of its term".
What this means is that parliament must first run its full term and you actually got the date as 30th December 2012 as a possible one meaning that they cannot extend the life of the house. Secondly, any time before that or on that date, there is a requirement for the house to be dissolved. . Again my reading is that parliament will only regulate its calendar and activities after the first elections under the new constitution and the president would still have the power to dissolve the house next month should he wish it - and if he does so, then an election must be held within 60 days.
In fact the COE did anticipate this as they provided for county elections to take place in 2012 in the event parliamentary elections are held earlier!
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