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Post by mzee on May 20, 2006 17:33:24 GMT 3
Rift valley province (RVP)deserves better than being bullied by M1 into voting for UK. Besides I really don’t understand why UK wants to transport his political eggs in a basket who’s bottom fell out long ago. M1s political fortunes started dwindling long before he was brought down crushing by Raila and company. To imagine that he could all of a sudden come out of the cold and be the man he used to be is bad joke and an insult to the people of RVP whos arms he is trying to twist. UK is perfectly within his democratic right to reject ODM. The only problem is that he is doing so due to M1 influence. Kenyans have been kind to M1. They have not demanded that he explain why people were thrown behind bars without reason, why there were political murders, land clashes, corruption etc during his watch. All these will come out the moment he throws himself into politics. Which means that he will end up being a burden to Kanu and UK. Raila has thrown the first jab by asking where he (M1) was for the 24 years he had at the helm of power while North easterners were suffering. What did he do? Why shed croc tears now? UK should stop listening to the old man too much for he has a long way to go. Instead of following M1s coat tail, he should try wooing Ruto back into the fold, for without Ruto, it would be diffiult to get votes in RVP.
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Post by kamalet on May 20, 2006 18:38:28 GMT 3
Why demonise Uhuru including diminishing his chances of leadership merely because he has failed to keep in step with ODM and political msherati Raila? He even is accused of having no brains of his own and appears to only act at the behest of one Daniel Arap Moi!!
Two things here. Uhuru is right not to want a political association with Raila especially since the latter was perhaps key to his election failure of 2002. Secondly, Moi is worried at Ruto's antics of working to reduce Kanu to a small Kalenjin party, as his main intention is to create himself a small fiefdom where he has a number of MPs he can call his own allowing him to negotiate, and the association with ODM is certainly not one of Moi's intentions.
So does Uhuru have any chances of becoming president? I do not think so, but he does stand a chance in 2012 when Kibaki's second presidency ends. On this I am making a similar bold prediction like OO's where Kibaki was to die in 2005 - hopefully I can end up being more right than he was that time!!!
At present, ODM (in fact read that as LDP and Ruto!) is in disarray and there have been some rather quiet players in the group. Kalonzo went quiet, and the last time I heard, apart from getting himself a party was trying to set up an appointment to see Kibaki - for real this time! As for the likes of Balala, negotiations are going on to get him back into Kibaki mainstream, and this has recently been expedited by the defection of Taib from LDP to Kanu where is now has a direct line to challenge Balala. Now Uhuru is working to keep Taib in his corner with the arab tycoons doing the running jobs for this.
So this unfortunately is progressively reducing LDP to a small tribal party whose arithmetic for national appearance is supposedly completed by Kamotho and Mumbi Ngaru! By the way what was Osundwa doing with Kituyi lambasting Kombo? Me thinks there is a lot of stuff going behind the scenes, and the ultimate loser appears to be LDP/ODM!
I therefore am not convinced that Uhuru is down and out just yet. He may be a key coalition player in 2007.
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Post by pharlap on May 20, 2006 22:39:44 GMT 3
Networking is a must for any indicidual who wants to progress in life. He could have shut up instead of jumping to his political death fall. It would not have cost him a thing to just stay dumb and play along with akina Raila and let circumstances force him out, That way, we would all understand that he is an ambitious person with brans. But sas Mzee said, "Broject UK bado iko" and we all know that none other than Babah mo1 himself is has shown great interest in all this.
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Post by mzee on May 21, 2006 0:06:20 GMT 3
@kamlet, Unlike you and OO who make major predictions, (which often end up being wrong) I will say one thing, Kibaki is a one-term president. He will definitely give it a second shot but will fail flat. Enough about prediction lets turn to UK, for he is not down but on his way out.
I do believe that leaders are born not made. UK is not a born leader but M1 made. He should, however, not make it look obvious. He should try to make us forget the “project” story. The way he being dragged from place to place and told to take this and that stand by M1 brings back memories of yesteryear. A leader who makes calculated and deliberate moves would have privately told M1 to mind his business, He would have further on reminded him that even without him (M1); he (UK) could still find his way around town. The problem is that UK would be lost without M1, which only compounds the open secret that he cannot lead from the front. Just like KM, he does not have a proper history of leadership and does not know what to do when the going gets tough. He has had 3 years as an opposition leader to show what he is made of,unfortunately, he has squandered that chance. If he plays his cards right he might see the inside of the state house n 2012.
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Post by maina on May 21, 2006 0:16:14 GMT 3
Kamalet is RIGHT on this issue. I say GO UHURU GO. Those ODM/LDP insurrectionists have been sitting on their eggs and they've taken toooo long to hatch!
Maina
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Post by ndauosa on May 21, 2006 0:46:44 GMT 3
It comes as no suprise that Uhuru has to toe the line when it comes to dealing with mo1, sio ajabu.There must have been a genuine bonding reason for baba wataifa, mwananchi no 1, to let go off power. He did not let go off it unconciously,by starting the Uk project, and denying people who he knew with their backing it was obvious he ws going to stay in power.Mo 1 sio mshenzi, as he put it proff wa siasa.one thing he is indespensable, mupende musipende. There is nothing that was going to happen to him, his fortunes and all his buddies. Hizo zili kuwa ni upusi mtupu,fitina ambazo enabled the clique to stay in power. Scartering the votes and just having them back. Raila and team were played, walichezwa na before they knew it the trophy was already gone. Moi, kibaki and Uhuru, both have some thing in common. Gained from stealing, and robbing the tax payer. And they hold the other small thieves at ransome. Hawwezi operate alone, hawezi toboa. thats their life line in whatever position they hold and aspire for. Salary and allowances, nani ali kataa. Who cares in the entire house which we thought would deliver the most. The press was full of praises of the composition and the brains that were, and have now proved to be a sham. Wagongaji, kweli. Sasa they've once again started to scattle the electorate and confuse them. And we continue to pere pepe. later it will be we need civic education, to enlighten the wanjiku and prepare her to make the right choices. but we only wait to pass the burk. Bado tuna chota kuingia stadi, na game isha dedi.Isha kaput.
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Post by pharlap on May 21, 2006 1:11:38 GMT 3
I feel you @ Ndousa. Problem is...whats the way foward? Are we as kenyans cursed, in that we cannot get proper leaders to truly represent us? Ama we need a new constitution to curb these people, before giving them another chance to squander our taxes again?
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Post by einstein on May 21, 2006 6:39:53 GMT 3
kamaletWhere do you read Uhuru being demonised in Mzee's post? Mzee stated in his post that „UK is perfectly within his democratic right to reject ODM“. Uhuru’s own colleagues in ODM have also told him the same plus a warning about the dangers he is exposing himself to by ditching his friends in their hour of need. Otherwise everyone, including KM, is free to quit if they so wish. Personally, I have not read anywhere – the daily newspapers included – that someone has demonised Uhuru for abandoning ODM. All he has been told so far is that the principle objective of the movement has not been fulfilled, viz giving Kenyans the new constitution they have been yearning for. His argument that the ODM objective was realised the moment Kenyans rejected the Wako Draft is logically faulty. If he were a leader worth his salt, the man should have either proposed to ODM the next logical step, which is the delivery of a new constitution or if he had no idea about the next course of action, he could have simply posed the following question to the rest “With Wako Draft now rejected, what next ladies and gentlemen?” This way he could have ‘discovered’ that the mission was far from finished! Imagine if the biblical Moses would have led the Israelites out of Egypt only to desert them in the wilderness saying “My mission was only to get you out of Egypt, please proceed to Canaan on your own” The poor Israelites would have been either annihilated in the desert or taken back captives to Egypt. And this is exactly the situation a whole opposition leader is subjecting Kenyans to! Having freed us from our bondage, he now abandons us either to be annihilated or taken back to those dark days. Kamalet, is this the kind of behaviour you would expect to see in a leader? Hence, no one – not even Mzee – is trying to diminish Uhuru’s chances of leadership rather it is the man himself undermining his own leadership qualities. And listen to Uhuru’s argument against ODM unity "If this unity is for sharing power among leaders, I would rather stay out of it," said an agitated Uhuru. Now, is this a statement from someone who wants to remain politically relevant or is this naivety at work? The world over, no political agreements or coalitions are free from power-sharing arrangements. The best recent example of power-sharing arrangement occurred in Germany in their last general elections. After 36 years, the two major parties in Germany i.e. the SPD and CDU/CSU were forced by the electorate to rule together. How they were going to share this power was not the problem of the voters. The voters’ mandate was “we want a coalition between the two major parties” period. So the two parties had to enter into a power-sharing arrangement that saw the then incumbent Chancellor Schroeder relinquish his position to the current Chancellor Mrs. Merkel but not before Schroeder secured the important posts for his party in return for his standing down for Mrs. Merkel!!! Now, if that was not power-sharing, then Uhuru will need to explain what he meant. And talking about coalitions and power-sharing, it does not seem to have dawned on our wannabe President yet that coalitions and power-sharing will continue to dominate the present and the future of Kenyan politics. Kamalet, the young man will not escape the two realities even if he runs away from ODM. I’m sorry Kamalet that I have to hit you so hard. Please do not take it personal. Despite different opinions, you will always remain my brother/sister. Please Kamalet, post us something worth reading and not empty rhetoric backed by zero facts. Who has accused Uhuru of having no brains of his own? He definitely has brains like we all do in all our heads. That is not the issue. The main question is how sharp is he? If quitting ODM will enhance his chances of victory next year or in 2012 as you put it, then he is sharp. But that still remains to be seen. Do you remember a one Musalia Mudavadi being rewarded with VP position after dumping the Rainbow Coalition sometime back. Did you listen to what he said regarding his political experiences before LDP brought him back again into mainstream politics? Please use that as your case study to work out the possible future scenarios with respect to the young Uhuru, who actually has so much potential, but is just about to put it all to waste due to simple naivety. Does he act at the behest of a one Daniel Arap Moi? Yes indeed he does and that is the naivety am talking about. Where was the guy before this one Daniel Arap Moi introduced him rather against his wishes into politics? The young man was more than contented with milk distribution in Kiambu and Nairobi. Judging by the latest news items in the media, who in your eyes is the true KANU chairman? Who is spearheading the KANU by-election campaigns at the moment? Please do not tell me it is Uhuru coz the chap is not even leading KANU!! My 50 cent observation and it may again be wrong. Uhuru just like Kibaki hates politics. Politics is a headache and just too demanding for these 2 gentlemen. To me, these are 2 people who have been forced into roles which they subconsciously never wanted to play! Do you remember a one Jaramogi Odinga literally dragging Kibaki out of Makerere University lecture halls to join in the struggle for independence? If you are not even sure of whether or not Raila was key to Uhuru’s election disaster in 2002, why then do you assert that Uhuru is right not to want a political association with Raila? Facts, facts and facts please! Your second comment concerns Moi’s worries that Ruto’s antics will reduce KANU to a small tribal Kalenjin party. The Ruto ‘antic’ you are most likely referring to here is his decision to run for the highest office in the land. According to me, Kenya is a democratic state whose constitution allows all eligible Kenyans, regardless of their station in life, to vie for the presidency. So, how does Ruto’s intention to become president reduce KANU to a tribal Kalenjin outfit? How does the Uhuru presidential bid make KANU national in its outlook and not a tribal Kikuyu party. Where is your logic Kamalet? And here you go again “the association with ODM is certainly not one of Moi's intentions”. ODM was not intended for Moi. So whether he likes the movement or not is immaterial. The man is a statesman who was supposed to have retired not only from the presidency but also from active local and national politics. It is only under these conditions that Moi can be respected by Kenyans who are paying his heavy retirement benefits through their noses. Unfortunately, the poor rich man thinks Kenyans are missing his presidency and kind of politics. Listen to the man. All of a sudden he discovers how poor Northern Kenya is, all of a sudden he is ready to talk to president Kibaki on behalf of the people of Northern Kenya about development projects in the region (I cannot remember when he last met and talked to president Kibaki publicly regarding any national development issue) and out of the blue the former president sees an urgent need to create a new province in that region! All this is coming in a spate of a couple of weeks from a man who had close to 40 years to sort out the marginalisation mess in Northern Kenya and other parts of the republic. What sort of complete balderdash is he talking about? And since he has chosen to be actively involved in national politics, he should not cry wolf when he is hit politically below the belt. Kenyans will not owe him any respect or apology anymore. Indeed people might just as well start asking tough questions about the atrocities committed under his regime! This is also from my friend Kamalet. “Kalonzo went quiet, and the last time I heard, apart from getting himself a party was trying to set up an appointment to see Kibaki - for real this time!” Please if you read newspapers regularly, you will have noted that Kalonzo is not quiet at all. He has continued to associate himself positively with ODM. Whether he will remain committed to the ODM course to the bitter end is another story. But this applies to the committment of the other ODMers as well. Here are a few links so you can catch up with the latest from KM. www.eastandard.net/archives/cl/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143952504&date=15/05/2006 www.eastandard.net/archives/cl/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143952705&date=19/05/2006 www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?premiumid=0&category_id=2&newsid=73372www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?premiumid=0&category_id=2&newsid=73277Last but not least, you seem to be one of those Kenyans who are scared of accepting realities on the round. This is what you wrote: “So this unfortunately is progressively reducing LDP to a small tribal party whose arithmetic for national appearance is supposedly completed by Kamotho and Mumbi Ngaru!” The link below will lead you to information regarding the popularity of the various parties in Kenya at the moment. If you have a better and more reliable source to support your claim, please let me have a look at it. www.eastandard.net/archives/cl/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143952083And here you can read what Gideon of all the people had to say about ODM. May be Uhuru can learn a lesson or two from the man regarding having an independent mind. www.eastandard.net/archives/cl/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143952503&date=15/05/2006 I will not go into the rest of your response to Mzee’s post since they are merely a continuation of your wild speculations and hearsays. Dear Kamalet, if you have nothing to say, please do not say or write it here. People take time to read your posts and responses. It is a waste of time if the content is naught! The Mashadites do not mind content less posts and responses, just for your information.
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Post by maina on May 21, 2006 7:00:15 GMT 3
einstein, You sound like Alexander (aka aeichener) in his wellness days when he trumps all over everyone in Jukwaa in his falsely adopted "sealer" configuration!
Just so that you know, this is not about Kamale! Actually, Kamale is RIGHT in his assessment! There's nothing wrong with what he said - it is exclusive!
You and your drollness should pick up each other and and try to reconcile yourselves! You have smoothly provided newspapers articles to assist you in abasing Kamale's argument; sooooo cheap! Very!!! Know what - when December 27th 2007 comes around, it'll be about tribe, morals, and faith. Quite frankly, even hunger can NEVER (and never will) displace the three. Those are exclusivistic facts!!!!!! Lastly, emotions will never proffer in politics! Actually, emotions yield failure, principally because they are all about indoctrination! Remember the Railaphobia and its mania?
GO UHURU GO!!!
Maina
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Post by dubois on May 21, 2006 10:26:32 GMT 3
Uhuru Kenyatta is only doing what is reasonable. ODM is essentially an anti-kikuyu movement. How then can Uhuru expect future support in central province if he groups up with Kikuyu haters? And make no mistake about it, Uhuru just like all the other leaders is nothing without his tribal base. Uhuru is actually lucky that his political mentor, Moi, is against the ODM too. Imagine how awkward it would be for Uhuru if Moi was pro ODM.
Raila must be the most frustrated individual at the moment; he has pulled every trick in the book to gain power but it seems to elude him every time. Without Moi's support, Kikuyu votes and possibly Kalonzo's akamba votes Raila will be a wannabe president in 2008.
and by the way the ODM and its supporters can jump up and down all they want but they will never convince anyone that they are more representative of Kenyans than any other party. ODM is mainly a Nyanza and Western outfit with a small splash of other provinces. To repeat myself, they would make another exclusive government which would take us back to square one.
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Post by mzee on May 21, 2006 11:17:37 GMT 3
dubois; @maina You contradict yourselves big time. MAINA says that 2007 will be about tribe and morals. History has taught us that tribal affiliation alone has never propelled one to presidency. Example is the Jaramogi/Kenyatta axis at independence and lately the Narc coalition. To go it alone is to commit suicide. If tribe is the bus to state house, as you seem to claim, then UK will sink for they are riding the same bus with one Kibaki and his MKM, and as it is now, central province is Kibakis town. The other point is that RVP is Rutos town and not UKs. You also mention morals as an issue in 2007. Don’t you think that it is foolish then for UK to sit on the laps of a "politically immoral" M1? DUBIOS claims that ODM is an anti-kikuyu movement and a Nyanza/western kenya outfit. Then what is Kilonzo, KM, Balala, Ruto, Kerrow doing there? Are they from Nyanza too? If Raila was the looser you seem to think he is, then everybody would not be panicking at his every move. He actually controls the directions of political events in Kenya. Besides, he has his own mind and does not depend on a depleted old man like UK does.
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Post by dubois on May 21, 2006 17:22:29 GMT 3
DUBIOS claims that ODM is an anti-kikuyu movement and a Nyanza/western kenya outfit. Then what is Kilonzo, KM, Balala, Ruto, Kerrow doing there? Are they from Nyanza too?
ODM is certainly an anti-kikuyu movement; it is based on the coming together of all tribes oppressed by the 'kikuyu' government and ending this domination. I dont know how anyone can see it differently!!!
In the same way, ODM first belongs to the biggest rivals of the kikuyu namely the luos and luhyas. If you took Raila and Musalia out, Odm would be dead. That is why Raila will move mountains (Kalonzo Musyoka) to keep Musalia (western province). who the hell is Kilonzo, balala and kerrow? they are busy bodies with no political clout. or will you tell me balala is the new king of coast? Ruto has definitely got political clout but we are yet to see how much remains after Moi is through with him.
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Post by museveni on May 21, 2006 22:38:38 GMT 3
One thing is clear, Uhuru stands no chance in 2007, whether he runs on a KANU or a NARC Kenya ticket.
Two, Moi and Kibaki have one thing in common, the fear of a Raila Presidency. Why ? because both have betrayed Raila in the past and they, therefore, fear retribution.
All the two are doing is trying to distabilise the ODM unity.
Any sane Kenyan will want a change of guard, from the old generation to the new. ODM offers that. And noboddy wants dynasties like the type Moi and Uhuru are trying.
The loss of uhuru is not of much consequence to ODM. Infact, I see other politicians who have been frustrated by the Kibaki GVt joining ODM at some point.
Ngilu and Kombo know their political careers are on the balance. They have to make a choice, and I do not see them going to the NARC Kenya side, and by extension, they will ditch Kibaki soon. Where they go, I wait to see.
Kibaki will be left with a handful of politicians who are not popular with Mwananchi. Little wonder there is talk of getting Kiraitu and Mweraria back to the cabinet. Besides the central kenya MPs, he will only have by his side people who cannot master any votes.
The only thing one can talk of on Kibaki is incumbency, and just like the referendum, it will have no impact in 2007.
ODM on the other hand has all the populist vote getters. I do not see any other one leaving after Uhuru. Even Kalonzo seems to stay put. This simply means Kibaki is a one term President, and of all the pretenders to the presidency, it is only Raila that stands tall.
The out come in 2007 depends on how Raila responds with his machines, LDP and ODM. So far he has the goodwill f the citizens.
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Post by roughrider on May 22, 2006 9:07:51 GMT 3
Moi wants to rule Kenya by proxy through Uhuru Kenyatta. This is ridiculous, to say the least. It is pointless to discuss Uhuru Kenyatta without talking about Moi; for there is No Uhuru Without Moi (pun fully intended)
After 24 years at the helm, Kenyans have no doubts about Moi's basic unwavering beliefs: one is that only old, rich families can lead - in this case the Moi and kenyatta families are the only ones with royal ruling class blood for the presidency. When he flashed young, rich Uhuru from his bag of political tricks, we were supposed to be united in awe and wonder at his infinite wisdom.
Another Moism is the belief in hereditary politics - sample the embarassing rush to jostle widows, sons, brothers uncles et al. out of mourning to vie for seats in Northern kenya. This, clearly, has nothing to do with leadership (or development consciousness) and more to do with politics of inheritance, manipulation, sympathy and 24 years of trickery.
Moi third belief is in the power of money. Luos for instance can be bought and sold for KShs 5000. I do not know what the price of a Kikuyu, Luhyia or Kalenjin peasant his but believe me Moi has the relevant price tag.
'Elders have spoken' this is another dangerous and retrogressive Moism. Once elders have spoken, then everyone else is supposed to shut up. We live in a more modern, fast paced and complex society. The idea that elders must always have a final say is unacceptable. Moi has made people think that 'elders' are infallible and that it is impudent and inopprtune to say anything counter. That is the reason why this past week he was saying to Kenyans in North Horr 'wazee wameshakubaliana'
If Moi is back into maintream siasa then he probably has no idea how much sewage can be thrown at him or any legacy he thinks he might have... this is something that will dawn on him in the coming days.
I could go on and on, but let me summarise: William Ruto is the real reason people are running scared. Nobody in the ODM or in the country for that matter is counting on the Kikuyu votes that are assuredly Uhuru's or Kibaki's (or any other Kikuyu that comes up). After all, at the referendum Kenyans voted one way and Kikuyu's voted the other. Historically, the kikuyu are the only Kenyan community who have NEVER and are certainly not prepared vote for a presidential candidate other than their own kinsman.
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Post by ndauosa on May 22, 2006 15:35:17 GMT 3
Roughrider
I couldn't agree with you more on Moism, elders and the patnership Kimbaki, and Moi. The lone ranger sellfishness of the Gema. Let's just hope that the money being dished out for the campaigns does not distract the masses. The Anglo fleesing was directed towards the general election, the golden burg is not yet gone. A clear colabo. Hizi doo ziko wapi and who are the people in the centre of all this scandals, Sio wao wanao dai kutuwakilisha. Wale wale. No wonder we heard the Ukiona wao , tia.....The community in Kisii apparently has taken it upon themselves to administer justice, due to the rampant corruption. Hawa jali.
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Post by kamalet on May 22, 2006 15:37:19 GMT 3
kamaletWhere do you read Uhuru being demonised in Mzee's post? Mzee stated in his post that „UK is perfectly within his democratic right to reject ODM“. Uhuru’s own colleagues in ODM have also told him the same plus a warning about the dangers he is exposing himself to by ditching his friends in their hour of need. Otherwise everyone, including KM, is free to quit if they so wish. Personally, I have not read anywhere – the daily newspapers included – that someone has demonised Uhuru for abandoning ODM. All he has been told so far is that the principle objective of the movement has not been fulfilled, viz giving Kenyans the new constitution they have been yearning for. His argument that the ODM objective was realised the moment Kenyans rejected the Wako Draft is logically faulty. If he were a leader worth his salt, the man should have either proposed to ODM the next logical step, which is the delivery of a new constitution or if he had no idea about the next course of action, he could have simply posed the following question to the rest “With Wako Draft now rejected, what next ladies and gentlemen?” This way he could have ‘discovered’ that the mission was far from finished! Imagine if the biblical Moses would have led the Israelites out of Egypt only to desert them in the wilderness saying “My mission was only to get you out of Egypt, please proceed to Canaan on your own” The poor Israelites would have been either annihilated in the desert or taken back captives to Egypt. And this is exactly the situation a whole opposition leader is subjecting Kenyans to! Having freed us from our bondage, he now abandons us either to be annihilated or taken back to those dark days. Kamalet, is this the kind of behaviour you would expect to see in a leader? Hence, no one – not even Mzee – is trying to diminish Uhuru’s chances of leadership rather it is the man himself undermining his own leadership qualities. And listen to Uhuru’s argument against ODM unity "If this unity is for sharing power among leaders, I would rather stay out of it," said an agitated Uhuru. Now, is this a statement from someone who wants to remain politically relevant or is this naivety at work? The world over, no political agreements or coalitions are free from power-sharing arrangements. The best recent example of power-sharing arrangement occurred in Germany in their last general elections. After 36 years, the two major parties in Germany i.e. the SPD and CDU/CSU were forced by the electorate to rule together. How they were going to share this power was not the problem of the voters. The voters’ mandate was “we want a coalition between the two major parties” period. So the two parties had to enter into a power-sharing arrangement that saw the then incumbent Chancellor Schroeder relinquish his position to the current Chancellor Mrs. Merkel but not before Schroeder secured the important posts for his party in return for his standing down for Mrs. Merkel!!! Now, if that was not power-sharing, then Uhuru will need to explain what he meant. And talking about coalitions and power-sharing, it does not seem to have dawned on our wannabe President yet that coalitions and power-sharing will continue to dominate the present and the future of Kenyan politics. Kamalet, the young man will not escape the two realities even if he runs away from ODM. I’m sorry Kamalet that I have to hit you so hard. Please do not take it personal. Despite different opinions, you will always remain my brother/sister. Please Kamalet, post us something worth reading and not empty rhetoric backed by zero facts. Who has accused Uhuru of having no brains of his own? He definitely has brains like we all do in all our heads. That is not the issue. The main question is how sharp is he? If quitting ODM will enhance his chances of victory next year or in 2012 as you put it, then he is sharp. But that still remains to be seen. Do you remember a one Musalia Mudavadi being rewarded with VP position after dumping the Rainbow Coalition sometime back. Did you listen to what he said regarding his political experiences before LDP brought him back again into mainstream politics? Please use that as your case study to work out the possible future scenarios with respect to the young Uhuru, who actually has so much potential, but is just about to put it all to waste due to simple naivety. Does he act at the behest of a one Daniel Arap Moi? Yes indeed he does and that is the naivety am talking about. Where was the guy before this one Daniel Arap Moi introduced him rather against his wishes into politics? The young man was more than contented with milk distribution in Kiambu and Nairobi. Judging by the latest news items in the media, who in your eyes is the true KANU chairman? Who is spearheading the KANU by-election campaigns at the moment? Please do not tell me it is Uhuru coz the chap is not even leading KANU!! My 50 cent observation and it may again be wrong. Uhuru just like Kibaki hates politics. Politics is a headache and just too demanding for these 2 gentlemen. To me, these are 2 people who have been forced into roles which they subconsciously never wanted to play! Do you remember a one Jaramogi Odinga literally dragging Kibaki out of Makerere University lecture halls to join in the struggle for independence? If you are not even sure of whether or not Raila was key to Uhuru’s election disaster in 2002, why then do you assert that Uhuru is right not to want a political association with Raila? Facts, facts and facts please! Your second comment concerns Moi’s worries that Ruto’s antics will reduce KANU to a small tribal Kalenjin party. The Ruto ‘antic’ you are most likely referring to here is his decision to run for the highest office in the land. According to me, Kenya is a democratic state whose constitution allows all eligible Kenyans, regardless of their station in life, to vie for the presidency. So, how does Ruto’s intention to become president reduce KANU to a tribal Kalenjin outfit? How does the Uhuru presidential bid make KANU national in its outlook and not a tribal Kikuyu party. Where is your logic Kamalet? And here you go again “the association with ODM is certainly not one of Moi's intentions”. ODM was not intended for Moi. So whether he likes the movement or not is immaterial. The man is a statesman who was supposed to have retired not only from the presidency but also from active local and national politics. It is only under these conditions that Moi can be respected by Kenyans who are paying his heavy retirement benefits through their noses. Unfortunately, the poor rich man thinks Kenyans are missing his presidency and kind of politics. Listen to the man. All of a sudden he discovers how poor Northern Kenya is, all of a sudden he is ready to talk to president Kibaki on behalf of the people of Northern Kenya about development projects in the region (I cannot remember when he last met and talked to president Kibaki publicly regarding any national development issue) and out of the blue the former president sees an urgent need to create a new province in that region! All this is coming in a spate of a couple of weeks from a man who had close to 40 years to sort out the marginalisation mess in Northern Kenya and other parts of the republic. What sort of complete balderdash is he talking about? And since he has chosen to be actively involved in national politics, he should not cry wolf when he is hit politically below the belt. Kenyans will not owe him any respect or apology anymore. Indeed people might just as well start asking tough questions about the atrocities committed under his regime! This is also from my friend Kamalet. “Kalonzo went quiet, and the last time I heard, apart from getting himself a party was trying to set up an appointment to see Kibaki - for real this time!” Please if you read newspapers regularly, you will have noted that Kalonzo is not quiet at all. He has continued to associate himself positively with ODM. Whether he will remain committed to the ODM course to the bitter end is another story. But this applies to the committment of the other ODMers as well. Here are a few links so you can catch up with the latest from KM. www.eastandard.net/archives/cl/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143952504&date=15/05/2006 www.eastandard.net/archives/cl/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143952705&date=19/05/2006 www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?premiumid=0&category_id=2&newsid=73372www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?premiumid=0&category_id=2&newsid=73277Last but not least, you seem to be one of those Kenyans who are scared of accepting realities on the round. This is what you wrote: “So this unfortunately is progressively reducing LDP to a small tribal party whose arithmetic for national appearance is supposedly completed by Kamotho and Mumbi Ngaru!” The link below will lead you to information regarding the popularity of the various parties in Kenya at the moment. If you have a better and more reliable source to support your claim, please let me have a look at it. www.eastandard.net/archives/cl/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143952083And here you can read what Gideon of all the people had to say about ODM. May be Uhuru can learn a lesson or two from the man regarding having an independent mind. www.eastandard.net/archives/cl/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143952503&date=15/05/2006 I will not go into the rest of your response to Mzee’s post since they are merely a continuation of your wild speculations and hearsays. Dear Kamalet, if you have nothing to say, please do not say or write it here. People take time to read your posts and responses. It is a waste of time if the content is naught! The Mashadites do not mind content less posts and responses, just for your information. Einstein, I would have actually preferred not to respond had you not made the issue in the post I made rather than disagree with what I wrote. I am not sure why on your second post in Jukwaa (unless re-incarnated as someone else!!!!) you can assume such familiarity, to the extent of suggesting I am posting nonesense!! I firmly believe that if you had actually bothered to read what I wrote, thought about it, it is unlikely you would have come back with the balderash you have now posted. May I suggest that you respect my right to think and write what I want, and I shall grant you the same respect. Please disagree with I disagreeertions with facts that contradict what I write......as you say, it is nothing personal ;D
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Post by mzee on May 22, 2006 22:10:51 GMT 3
Roughrider and einstein hit the nail on the head:
One of the daily newspapers quoted UK as saying that “he had a mind of his own”. I wonder why UK is trying to convince us about the above fact. Would it not be more convincing to let us make that judgement? Sources say that UKs outburst was a well-planned move but poorly timed and executed. The aim of his moving out of ODM was, according to M1 calculations, to trigger a mass walk out. The hope was that the walk out would take with it KM and other Kanu supporters of ODM, hence leaving the movement paralysed. Another aim was to make Ruto panic and jump right back into kanu. While the third aim was to galvanise support for kanu in central province.
The calculation is that RVP is secured and kanu only needs votes from central province to be home and dry come 2007. The belief from UKs quarter is that, if he turns against Raila,he would get support from central province; after all, they have been all along calling him traitor due to his association with Raila. In order to reverse the situation, they came up with this silly idea, that is, break away from Raila and all kikuyus will turn his way. It is the same tactic, which made Kibaki loose the referendum. UK expected an outpouring of support from both RVP and central, but this is where the so-called prof. of politics and his protégé went wrong. Apart from the fact those M1s old tricks can only work in a dictatorship, it is futile for any young person who wants to be a leader to follow him, for he has a very smelly past. Therefore, instead of UK getting the support he was looking for, leaders from RVP ended up talking about M1 retirement. Yes, UK has a mind of his own, but it has been completely hijacked by Daniel arap Moi. Yes, M1 is Uhurus mentor, but he is living in the past. Kenyans are too clever to fall for his cheap tricks
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Post by dubois on May 23, 2006 14:19:09 GMT 3
How do you come up with such nonsense? In any case, Uhuru, by breaking away from ODM, is trying to secure his future career and not necessarily in 2007. LDP (Raila) fanatics are sooo completely convinced that they'll be the only Kenyans in the polling booths come 2007. Moi with all his misdeeds still commands a significant portion of RVP, that is an undeniable fact. The chances of ODM (Raila & Ruto) making it without Moi, Kikuyus and possibly Kalonzo is extremely slim. To quote you, Kenyans are too clever to fall for his cheap tricks. Such statements are too subjective and idealistic from an ethnic perspective.
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Post by kamalet on May 24, 2006 4:19:33 GMT 3
Here is another closeted tribalist who can only see Uhuru being thoughtless for ditching ODM!! www.eastandard.net/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143952936In fact what is most revealing about this article is the assertions that ODM was a Kenyan dream and was not formed by Kanu and LDP!! If somewhat intelligent people can peddle such a lie when we all know what ODM stood for pre-November referendum and post-referendum and that it was transformed to a vehicle for personal power greed by the same politicians Kenyans had a glimmer of hope on!! We are apt to shut our eyes against painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren, till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men and women, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Sir, I only wish to remind you that the ODM was not created by Kanu and the Liberal Democratic Party. It represented the Kenyan people’s resolve against Narcist betrayal. By ditching it, you are that wave of betrayal.
And my friend, aren’t we glorifying ethnicity too much. The trend of voting in 2002 and during the recent referendum should have told you that Kenyans are capable of relegating their so-called irreconcilable ethnic differences aside.
This time round our collective wrath will not be against Mr. Moi. It will be against YOU.I think that supporters of ODM should come out this denial and seriously address their future without Kanu. As I said in my post above, there is a risk of ODM being reduced to LDP and Ruto. Ruto being a man in trouble should be one to avoid - remember the saying, do not try to catch a falling knife!
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Post by politicalmaniac on May 24, 2006 5:28:24 GMT 3
dubois,
you are right.
The non - kikuyu (non GEMA) kenyans DONT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH A GEMA CANDIDATE IN 2007. I do understand why you view ODM as anti kikuyu for belief (rightly so) that kikuyus have opressed the rest. ODM is the only viable vehicle for ngoaring out the inept sloth kickback1. Thats why you cant sleep when ODM is mentioned.
That is fact my friend. I feel very opressed, non-appreciated, valueless to the kikuyu driven regime of kickback1. These people (the MKM ) only care about themselves. They have no sense at all of voltaic virtues of egalite ,fraternite and liberte. Greedy self seeking as$holes with a me, me, me, mine, mine, attitude ALL THE fwacking time.
Kenyans are tired. The referendum (I know, I know you are tired of it) was more an expression of the intense lothing and dislike of the visceral arrogance, comtempt and lack of voltaic prinples by the MKM.
The name kiraitu or murungaru (and lately kimeendeero the homeguard) evokes copious nasty biliary secretions and perimenopausal like hot flashes in non Gemans. Perhaps kickback1 should bring them back to the cabinet if only to serve as verbal punching bags for the anti DP forces.
Kickback1 aint running in 2007. How can he when the outcome is so uncertain? will he be a backbencher? Hence the clamour for Uhuru.
Can Uhuru win?. He has a brain yes (kamale he has one), he has money yes, he has a godfather yes, he has tribal numbers (but the kyuks dont trust/like/love/adore him) yes, but can he win? Of course he can but I doubt it.
His lack of gravitas, a poor electoral tract record (2 losses (one MAJOR) Vs one win) ISNT COMFORTING.
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Post by politicalmaniac on May 24, 2006 5:29:20 GMT 3
einstien splendid article BTW
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Post by mzee on May 24, 2006 21:53:15 GMT 3
@@@dubios, you do not have to be that angry as to term one what writes as nonsense. I hope that you realise that facts can bring down mountains while unnecessary insult will not kill the tiniest of ants. Nobody who has so far made a comment on UK which has in anyway, manner or demeaned the man. Most people have tried giving a balanced analysis of the situation on the ground. They mostly see that UK is moving in the wrong direction for wrong reasons because due to wrong people of questionable character and too little influence to push him through. They want him to rise to the occasion and be the leader they thought he would evolve into. His poor tactics and lack of vision will cost him dear. In fact, his erratic behaviour only makes known the fact that he does not have what it takes. It has not gone unnoticed that even KM who was at one time in a silent rebellion has now discovered that it is only LDP/ODM that he can call home. More interestingly, KM is now talking forcefully about ODM knowing that the exit of UK has increased his chances for getting a hot at the presidency or any other power sharing position. He knows that following UK would be a political suicide. UK is surrounded by the likes of Ngala, Dalmas Otieno, Henry Kosgey, Justin Muturi, Maoka Maore, Josephine Ojiambo, Howard Mburu etc. Apart from the fact that they do not command any substantial votes, they almost all come from outside RVP. Yet we know that UK is heavily relying on RVP. Who will campaign for UK in RVP if majority of its leaders are not with him? Does he really believe that M1 has a magic wand, which he will pull out before the political curtains close on them? Is he right in completely believing in the power of this “rich old man” as Einstein would put it?
UK does not want power sharing. Does it mean that just like his mentor and his father (RIP) he would like to be a dictator. After all power, sharing is the order of the day in the whole world. Good examples are Sweden, Italy, Germany, Israel etc where coalitions are normal. Kenyans hade started warming up to UK especially after the referendum. They had stopped calling “Simon Makonde” or “Project” as they did during the last elections. His taking distance from the thieving MKM bunch hade actually endeared him to the people. Kenyans had tried to forget the misdeeds of his father and more so those of his mentor. They had thought he was not one of those Kikuyus who support another kikuyu simply because they are kikuyu. The Muite and Koigi type.
Dubios, you see, it’s only an opinion, however silly. What is yours without calling me names, please?
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Post by einstein on May 24, 2006 23:57:02 GMT 3
@maina + Kamalet,
Thanks Maina for coming out strongly in support of Kamalet and Kamalet thanks for defending yourself. That is okay, but please do not get me wrong. It is never my intention to wage ‘wars’ against any member of Jukwaa leave alone belittling their contributions.
I only have a problem with speculations and hearsay being put across as facts. Reading through Kamalet’s reply to Mzee’s original post one gets the impression that he is stating what he actually believed to be facts. Only in one instance did he try to make a prediction. While I had no problem with this prediction and gave him the benefit of the doubt, I had no option but to counter the rest of his arguments with facts.
Kamalet, you are definitely entitled to your opinions and have a right to think and write what you please but try not to state speculations, hearsay and predictions as foregone conclusions or facts or better still simply state that you are speculating or predicting this or that.
By the way Maina, I’m not Alexander and I do not attack people while hiding behind multiple handles.
@mzee + Politicalmaniac,
Big thanks for your compliments.
Peace to all!
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Post by politicalmaniac on May 25, 2006 7:16:23 GMT 3
Things are so fluid. Friends tell me uhuru aint running, but at the same time the moi-kickback1 axis dont want Ruto to run as he will siphon off the Kamatusa vote and leave kickbacki in a bind. I will not pretend to know but the damn water is too muddy.
The only thing I am certain of is the fact that the mood in the country is against a Gema candidacy. Enough is enough! i dont want kickback1 after 2007 simply because he is inept and too focused on sectarian Gema interest. With uhuru the simple fact is he is a non deserving, inexperienced prop/front.
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Post by job on May 25, 2006 9:59:35 GMT 3
Mzee,
Uhuru is certainly doing the best thing at the right time. Wananchi are trying to speak in one voice, loudy spoken before ,...but he doesn't like it.
Just as Charles Njonjo lamented,.... his relevance in ODM without a solid base of support is embarrasingly negligible ( he can't challenge Kibaki on the GEMA vote, yaani he has nothing to offer to the ODM).
Let him rightfully decamp and run back onto Moi's lap and keep waiting there. Kenya must move on, without any taint of these three big failures (disasters) ; Kenyatta, Moi and Kibaki. Those who woke up pre-referendum, (yaani majority Kenyans) are way ahead in the game,...those still dreaming (yaani the ever optimistic 'Banana's' ), are yet to have the realization dawn on them when the people will speak once again, in that same voice Uhuru doesn't wan't to hear.
Job.
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