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Post by phil on Nov 25, 2010 11:55:18 GMT 3
Luckily for this country, it is not the likes of Kamale and Sadik who will decide who the next president will be. Reading the kind of gibberish they spew here and you have to thank God for small mercies that elections are for the masses to vote at.
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Post by kamalet on Nov 25, 2010 12:35:05 GMT 3
Luckily for this country, it is not the likes of Kamale and Sadik who will decide who the next president will be. Reading the kind of gibberish they spew here and you have to thank God for small mercies that elections are for the masses to vote at. But of course Phil.....Raila has millions to count on and the thinking of the Kamales and Sadiks of this world only matter to them!
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Post by ebarasi on Nov 25, 2010 14:02:45 GMT 3
Saitoti, Kilonzo and Uhuru alliance is visible political force with which to reckon. One does not need ideology to share in alliance. As long they have an agreed objective to achieve and an outcome to reach, they stand a good chance to succeed. All they need to do is bring together their communities to vote in unison and kaboom Raila is history. As for their own unity, yes they have a unity of purpose – a foremost reason to be united. I agree and many Kenyan will that they may have not achieved anything individually, but so is their comparator – Raila. His opportunistic mentality is now becoming an irritation. It seems to me he is in the coalition govt to serve his ‘local’ master – Kibaki whom is very keen to defend in Parliament, whilst at the same time working hard to please his foreign masters. One needs to look at his utterances against Omar Al Bashir, yet his shameful silence on Uganda’s Kony, both wanted by the ICC - under warrant of arrest. 1. Raila is now defending drug barons in Parliament. 2. Raila’s nepotism, tribalism, and favouritism is legendary. 3. Raila’s grandiose nonsense are embarrassing – remember his request for France to establish nuclear technology in Kenya. This is ‘an engineer’ who should know Kenya cannot make even a bicycle, why not ask for technology to make bicycle knowing that it will benefit mostly his tribesmen who are prominent ‘boda-boda’ operatives. 4. Raila unfinished ‘tasks’ declared to the nation is national hazard. a. He knew he could not ‘reclaim’ Mau from the mighty land baron but went ahead to uprooted peasant Kalenjins from Mau to please his foreign ‘masters’. b. During his tenure as a Road Minister, his grand Nairobi by-pass ideas were only used to demolish houses of people he perceived to be his political enemies without building any such by-pass. c. His defence of Majiwa, Ngilu, Nyon’go and Koskey while casting aspersions against others for his selfish political gain. d. His promised to help build communal pit latrines during his election campaigns in Kibera. Shamefully, his constituents still use ‘flying toilet’. Why not invite his American ‘friends’ to help Kibera resident with toilets, roads, et cetera. The point to note is many people who voted for Raila don’t reside in Kibera, are not therefore affected by problems facing people in Kibera. Sadik All I can say is that Raila would make a worse president than Moi! Nothing he starts seems to work ot get finished, and if you take the needy of Kibera whom he has led all those years and the fact their lot has not changed, then one can imagine what he would do for Kenya...if anything! Kamalet,That Raila would make a worse president than Moi either remains to be seen or we will never know, depending on whether he will ascend to that office or not. However, the role of the government is to develop infrastructure and empower its citizens whereas the role of legislators is to "pass, amend, and repeal laws". If any area in Kenya is underdeveloped we should be honest and have the integrity to squarely place the blame at the feet of all governments to date. Are you suggesting that Raila's failing is his inability to tap into the networks that have led to skewed infrastructural development irrespective of national benefit? That seems to me to be one of the monsters we are trying to slay and lay to rest. Are you honest in stating that "Nothing he starts seems to work ot get finished"? What would you call the prevailing situation in Kenya where: i) A constitution that reduces the presence of an omnipotent government is now in place? i) We are all together now trying to lay a foundation for an equitable nation? ii) You can ventilate your opinion without fear of the walls reporting you to some omnipotent ghost? iii) Courts that actually dispense and not sell justice are the norm we are aspiring to set up? Aren't these some of the things Raila, among others, set out to change leading to his detention? Ebarasi
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 25, 2010 14:35:22 GMT 3
Ebarasi
That Raila is some way give us a constitution is the biggest facade you have been told!
The truth is Raila Odinga has spent his life seeking power in Kenya and was instrumental in Kibaki's 2002 election victory. During his long political career, he has been in and out of a veritable alphabet soup of political parties. His critics call him a "party-wrecker", who would do anything to achieve his political ambition. He ran for office against Moi in 1997 when he trailed in third.
What is generally referred to as ‘period of detention’, is actually period when the man had problem with the Law. He was accused of plotting a coup against Moi in 1982, charged with treason and detained without trial for six years before fleeing to Norway in 1991.
But he returned the following year to join his father's new party, the Forum for the Restoration of Democracy (Ford). On Jaramogi Odinga's death, Raila challenged Michael Wamalwa Kijana for the leadership of Ford-Kenya and lost, so left to join the National Development Party (NDP). After the 1997 elections he merged his NDP with Kanu but was passed over for the Kanu leadership and formed the Rainbow Movement in protest. The Rainbow Movement went on to join the Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) and then to form the ODM.
In 2002, he opportunistically reached out to Moi as Moi sought to repair his dented political image. Mr Odinga disbanded the NDP and regrouped his political forces in Mr Moi's Kanu, becoming the party's secretary general as part of the deal. He thought, foolishly, that he will be crowned the ‘King’. That never happened.
History repeat itself. Raila opportunistically again helped Kibaki to stay in power while he in return got some executive power as Prime Minister. Now we have the same scenario repeat itself. Raila, in his usual gullible self is busy dreaming that Kibaki will anoint him his successor. Take it from me that will never happen.
What we have learnt from Raila’s political history, ignoring his role in the coup,
1. from the days of Ford-K with Kijana Wamalwa, 2. and with Orengo 3. from the days of KANU/NDP with Uhuru 4. from the earlier days of NARC with Kibaki 5. from the days with ealier ODM with Balala,et cetera 6. from the difference with Ruto
…is that the man is a dictator in the making, who will shove aside anyone who does not toe the line to reach his prize of being the president of the republic. That is why he was detained.
As for the constitution, Kenyans from different shades participated and its their relentless efforts which gave them a constitution. Don’t buy the hogwash that Raila give you a constitution – you earned it yourself as a Kenyan.
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Post by roughrider on Nov 25, 2010 16:24:50 GMT 3
Ebarasi;
Allow me to address you because I think you have a genuine desire for objective truth. You must beware of those that get personal or tribal in their spirited attempts to perpetuate their ignorance. In my time with online exchanges I have noticed that when brains fail, abuses and what we refer to as ad hominem begin to rear their ugly head.
As you know, Raila’s political history of selfless struggle cannot be re-written by charlatans. It is there for everybody to see. Some people can scream all they like, but the truth is there and stares them back, implacable and inexorably. Even in the very, very dark old days when the type of freedom we exercise here on Jukwaa was unknown; Raila Odinga fought bravely against dictatorship and paid a heavy price for it. I can say without any fear of contradiction that were it not for the sacrifices of the likes of Raila and other comrades; Kenya would still be stuck in the rut of Moism and dictatorship.
Believe it or not, and contrary to the bullshit some folks here now peddle, there was a struggle against dictatorship in Kenya. Folks like Adongo Ogony, Migina Miguna and Onyango Oloo who happen to be members of Jukwaa can give you firsthand accounts of the repression that Kenya faced and Raila’s role in it. As they so quaintly put it, they lived to tell.
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Post by roughrider on Nov 25, 2010 16:26:53 GMT 3
back to the topic...
I think Kibaki has a BIG dilemma, his three best fall far short.
Uhuru Kenyatta will be an unwelcome prospect. Unfortunately for us, the restive tribal sentiment and the promotion of what we call ‘national cohesion and integration’ will not be served by the occupancy of another kikuyu. Further, Mr. Kenyatta, a creature of Moi, has showed no special talents in the management of public affairs to warrant attention. While Mr. Kenyatta might whip some tribal sentiment among the populous GEMA, he is unlikely to sell anywhere else.
Kalonzo Musyoka is inconsistent and inconstant. He is neither here nor there. It is not clear why he is in politics for since the Moi 80’s he has gone wherever it was safest and wherever he would find succor. Even with a powerful Electron Microscope I cannot see Kalonzo Musyoka’s principles. He ran a most empty campaign with his most interesting proposal being the establishment of 24 hour nation and the settling of pyramid scheme debts. At the height of Kenya’s darkest moments, he could only think of a power grab. Mr Wiper even left alone on the ballot would still loose!
George Saitoti has no spine for a presidential run. I thought this was long settled? He simply does not know how to get to the presidency – if there was political blindness, the Saitoti suffers it. Where is the political map or the demographic coalition that will put George Saitoti in State House?
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Post by phil on Nov 25, 2010 17:53:33 GMT 3
If Kibaki called off his own son from succeeding him in Othaya, where does that leave Saitoi, Kalonzo and Uhuru?
Can these three plus Ruto actually unite one of them? People who have been unable to unite their own parties!
I remember that when Kibaki was the incumbent Moi, Uhuru, Saitoti were all campaigned for his relection in 2007, but he still lost. If only wishes were horses.
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Post by gemagema on Nov 25, 2010 18:03:12 GMT 3
Sadik and Kamalet,
You guys are pretty tough. It is obvious that you are one of the main two guys running a different political discourse on jukwaa. Na akina mwalimumkuu. And you hold ball. Ai, nyinyi ni wembe. I am actually very impressed because you manage to disorient if not vehemently vex the others, mainly RAO activists. While they claim that you guys spew or ramble nada, trust me, you get them doing the same. Ni Draw.
How I wish there were some active Kibaki-Uhuru supporters on Jukwaa. I mean from central. It would be great to read a three-dimensional political debate. As it is, it is mainly a RAO - Ruto (RV) debate.
Hata hivyo, i thought some guys have already made reservation the in the Netherlands and 2012 bado mbali. So, have no sleepless night over the nonadhesive political alliances
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Post by reporter911 on Nov 25, 2010 19:57:42 GMT 3
Sadik and Kamalet, You guys are pretty tough. It is obvious that you are one of the main two guys running a different political discourse on jukwaa. Na akina mwalimumkuu. And you hold ball. Ai, nyinyi ni wembe. I am actually very impressed because you manage to disorient if not vehemently vex the others, mainly RAO activists. While they claim that you guys spew or ramble nada, trust me, you get them doing the same. Ni Draw. How I wish there were some active Kibaki-Uhuru supporters on Jukwaa. I mean from central. It would be great to read a three-dimensional political debate. As it is, it is mainly a RAO - Ruto (RV) debate. Hata hivyo, i thought some guys have already made reservation the in the Netherlands and 2012 bado mbali. So, have no sleepless night over the nonadhesive political alliances Nicely said.. why not get the IDP's in the camps on here to debate on Uhuru & Kibaki? I wonder what they will say.. if that is the direction you want to take on the central support issue. I guess plenty, I know there are Jukwaa members from central, but they view themselves as Kenyans, they do not need to use a tribal card " central Province" to post their views on here.. I wonder why the tribal issue still roams this blog? I thought 2007-2008 taught us all a lesson! we are all Kenyans from different ethnic groups which we are all proud of but not to be used as an excuse to support impunity.
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Post by ebarasi on Nov 25, 2010 23:48:13 GMT 3
EbarasiThat Raila is some way give us a constitution is the biggest facade you have been told! I am not that gullible. Nowhere in my post have I even alluded to that. I merely point out that he among others have been at the forefront of the struggle for our present Constitution. But for clarity I’ll say this: i) We as Kenyans, through a long struggle, finally gave ourselves a new constitution. Period. ii) Raila to his credit was the first leader to agitate for the present constitution when the COE lay it on the table even as others faltered. It was not wholly what ODM, PNU or Wanjiku wanted but a compromise that was to be baptized in the fire of the Kenyan democratic ballot. Isn’t that democratic practice? iii) The Kenyan citizens, civil society, and the political leadership, with different levels of enthusiasm, played their role in making this a Kenyan exercise and not an elitist, kitchen cabinet, or secret boardroom exercise. That Raila has pursued and continues to pursue political power is no secret. Kenyatta, Moi, and Kibaki pursued and obtained it. In each case there was deceit that over time almost led to the dissolution of the union we call “the Kenyan nation”. Kalonzo, Ruto, Uhuru, Saitoti, Karua, Orengo, Mudavadi, Eugene, Maina Njenga among others are also pursuing political power. I see nothing wrong in people openly pursuing power by the constitutional means now available as long as they do not carry out a scorched earth policy. Give the Kenyan electorate some respect. If they really thought that political party loyalty in the context of the reality of Kenyan politics was sacred they would have made their voice heard at the ballot. Are you trying to turn the villain into the good guy? That today one can constitutionally pursue power is a product of the struggle of yesterday to reverse the situation where an elite had raped the old constitution leaving only unconstitutional avenues to those who would seek power. Have you stopped to ponder the possible foolishness of those who might have thought this a wonderful strategy to contain him? That he has moved in and out of parties is no surprise given the light touch with which our leaders make and promises and deals. To refuse to be used and abused is something I have respect for. One thing you don’t address is the fact that it is his human right to associate with those he chooses to and it is our right to judge and reward or punish accordingly.
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Post by ebarasi on Nov 25, 2010 23:59:12 GMT 3
Ebarasi;Allow me to address you because I think you have a genuine desire for objective truth. You must beware of those that get personal or tribal in their spirited attempts to perpetuate their ignorance. In my time with online exchanges I have noticed that when brains fail, abuses and what we refer to as ad hominem begin to rear their ugly head. As you know, Raila’s political history of selfless struggle cannot be re-written by charlatans. It is there for everybody to see. Some people can scream all they like, but the truth is there and stares them back, implacable and inexorably. Even in the very, very dark old days when the type of freedom we exercise here on Jukwaa was unknown; Raila Odinga fought bravely against dictatorship and paid a heavy price for it. I can say without any fear of contradiction that were it not for the sacrifices of the likes of Raila and other comrades; Kenya would still be stuck in the rut of Moism and dictatorship. Believe it or not, and contrary to the bullshit some folks here now peddle, there was a struggle against dictatorship in Kenya. Folks like Adongo Ogony, Migina Miguna and Onyango Oloo who happen to be members of Jukwaa can give you firsthand accounts of the repression that Kenya faced and Raila’s role in it. As they so quaintly put it, they lived to tell. Roughrider,Thank you. As they say, the truth will set you free. Ebarasi
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Post by politicalmaniac on Nov 26, 2010 1:05:30 GMT 3
If the only aim of the so called KKK alliance supporters here is to "murder the political ambitions" of the Hon Prime Minister, thats OK. But they have been known to actually murder folks who they think are dangerous to their political ambitions.
Perhaps if the Hon Prime Minister runs for P.O.R.K in the next election both I, and them (haters) will get our collective wish. I desperately want him to run and I want him to win. The haters have a diameteric view and they will have the opportunity to frustrate that run.
Meanwhile I will try and engage in legitimate debate and try my best to defuse the triple U attacks from self confessed haters engaged in - Ujinga, Upuzi na Ushenzi. Charges that he is a tribalist engaged in nepotism, or a heartless callous man who evicts innocent folks from Mau are spurious at worst. That the Hon Prime Ministesr lofty calls for Kenya to move from the ice age is now deliberately misconstrued as too idealistic is just hideous tomfoolery. Perhaps they want the Hon Prime to be a mere jua kali advocate and make chinese trinkets, so that they can import second hand stuff that dont work for full price is more evidence ya triple U bullsh!t.
As we continue to wait for the Hon Prime Minister to give us a clear signal that he will indeed succumb to our wishes and run, we, his ardent supporters will defend his honor and integrity and support his positive vision for the country.
And we shall debunk bullshIt with as much patience as possible. I hope I have a thick skin so I can read the crap and not loose sanity, and continue to debunk them.
Meanwhile aluta continua!
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Post by politicalmaniac on Nov 28, 2010 3:09:58 GMT 3
Why are Gema " elders"still looking for a successor to the othayan ostensibly to "unite the country and look after their interests" ? My goodness is 20plus yrs of a Gema presidency not enough to look after their interests? How about the other non Gema folks then? dont their interests matter? No wonder I was a strong proponent of pure Majimbo not this diluted majimbo stuff a a gazillion counties some being pure bantustans
Anyway, I thought that jomo jnr had been "anointed". The 2002 inept and failed kipkorios's Manchurian candidate is being force fed the mantle of Gema chief, but it seems the capacity of his gut cant stomach the challenge. He keeps puking it out, and the elders then keep booking hotel ballrooms to brains storm and keep looking. Good luck with that!
Leadership is not a tangible thing you grab and give somebody. No one has to earn it. These Gema elders can keep renting hotel ballrooms to seek a head to anoint but they wont get one via that route. No......
Some will emerge who will want it bad enough and have the capabilities, the charisma, and the biography and timing to grab that mantle.
No congregation of gray hairs will get a "leader" for wana Gema. That leader will emerge naturally.
I wish the fake ex bishop now Gema Chair, and the nonagerian karume would quit and stop acting as if there is an emergency in Gema land.
Its clear jomo jnr is not a compelling leader or candidate. He is on the short list simply because of the genetic accident that made him first son, and the unimaginable wealth he and his family holds.
As for jomo jnr, If it were not for those attributes this guy would be the son of just another Johnston Kamau AKA jomo wa Kenya.
Now, lets talk about other stuff. These bloody idiots - include ruto here, want to use Western as a pawn in their stupid power games. They have made the increasingly misguided and confused uber ambitious rookie MP Eugene a tool in their trick box.
They are trying hard to convince him to run in the primaries - the one of many narrow barabara's whose effluent is supposed to lead to the major barabara - the anti R/ODM candidate. And they expect him to loose, and he knows he is a mere cog in the bigger mt kenya mafiya dominated PNU wheel. But I guess they suppose that Eugene's votes will translate into a National vote for the PNU candidate. How so? I dont know.....
Eugene actually wants a step up to Senator. I guess he will have to duke it out with Kituyi then, unless their constituencies dont overlap
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Post by gachquota on Nov 28, 2010 3:14:20 GMT 3
P.n.u iz dead period.
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 28, 2010 9:46:15 GMT 3
I thought I could engage you intelligently. But, you amazed me with your uncouthness.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Nov 28, 2010 21:03:16 GMT 3
I thought I could engage you intelligently. But, you amazed me with your uncouthness. Whooaaaa, thats rich coming from a tribalist with a mouth most foul, and quite unapologetic about too. If one looks at Job's . Turning to the Luo Judge at ICC which seems to irritate some in here, people need to understand how the ICC,........................... I would not therefore take counsel from a person I can only surmise to be HIV AID-ravaged Rachuoyo low-life whose only obsession seems to be sex because everything she writes dwells around sex.
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Post by gachquota on Nov 28, 2010 22:36:54 GMT 3
K.K.K = Kula kitu kidogo party = Kanu. A bunch of idiots if u ask me.
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Post by reporter911 on Nov 28, 2010 23:38:09 GMT 3
RUTO JOINS UDM AND TO PARTNER WITH FORD-K " UHURU'S PNU ALIAS "KKK" SO WHO IS 2012 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE AND RUNNING MATE AMONG THEM ALL
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Post by reporter911 on Nov 28, 2010 23:53:26 GMT 3
NOW THE PLOT THICKENS...... ;D Eldoret North MP William Ruto has met with Finance Minister Uhuru Kenyatta in what is being seen as a move to form a new political alliance.The meeting in Energy minister Kiraitu Murungi’s office came on the same day Orange Democratic Movement leader Raila Odinga told party rebels, led by Mr Ruto, to quit. Mr Ruto on Sunday hinted at leaving the ODM ahead of the 2012 General Election. Mr Kenyatta, Mr Ruto and their close allies met on Friday and discussed, among other things, “working together politically”.
Sources indicated that the leaders will hold similar meetings that may eventually see the birth of a new political alliance with the aim of capturing power in 2012. On Sunday, Mr Odinga said Mr Ruto and his allies left ODM on their own volition. “We are not chasing people. They chased themselves. The Muslims usually say let’s marry in happiness and divorce in happiness. “You cannot threaten to leave every now and then. Why should you be angry and issue threats? ODM is strong and is growing,” the Prime Minister told a rally at Kamukunji grounds in Kibera. He dismissed the idea of an alliance between Kalenjins and Kikuyus saying “politics of tribalism ended a long time ago.” “The days of divide-and-rule politics are long gone. This is a new Kenya where all the 42 tribes have equal rights. If you don’t agree with Raila Odinga’s ideology move to another party. Let us fight ideologically. ODM believes in social democracy and should be fought ideologically and not tribally.“Don’t look at an individual but a party as a whole. It’s time for Kenya to change and end parochial politics. We should love each other as Kenyans and as one family,” the PM said. It is still unclear how the Kenyatta-Ruto meetings would affect a plan by the Party of National Unity coalition to have the former, Internal Security Minister Prof George Saitoti and Vice-President Kalonzo Musyoka face off in a primary poll to get a single presidential candidate.An ally of Mr Ruto, Mr Joshua Kutuny, said that political and national issues were on the agenda of the meeting. But he was vague on the details of the meeting, only saying, more talks would be held in the coming days. “We are currently concentrating on the issues that are affecting the country right now including the row over the constituencies and the commissions on the implementation of the Constitution,” Mr Kutuny said. Mr Kenyatta wanted to “understand” what the issue was with the constituencies. “You are going to see more meetings taking place with Issac (Ruto) chairing a caucus to find the way forward on resolving the controversy,” Mr Kutuny said.Rift Valley MPs have embraced the proposed new constituencies while their colleagues in central Kenya have moved to court to block them. Mr Ruto is one of two ODM deputy leaders, the other being Local Government Minister Musalia Mudavadi. Sources indicated that the proposed alliance by Mr Ruto and Mr Kenyatta has been receiving backing from within and outside the borders. Reports indicate that Uganda PRESIDENT YOWERI MUSEVENI Yoweri Museveni encouraged Mr Ruto to pursue an alliance with Mr Kenyatta. Mr Ruto met Mr Museveni during a recent visit to Kampala. Over the weekend, Mr Ruto’s allies led by Mr Kutuny said they had found a new party.Speaking separately, Mr Ruto said youthful leaders had come together to ensure that they clinch the presidency in 2012. “Raila is chasing us from the party after we supported him in the last elections. We have options and we are going nothing short of the presidency,” he said. Saboti MP Eugene Wamalwa said that the PM had been in Ford Kenya and messed up the party. He said Mr Odinga could not be trusted. But Mr Mudavadi cautioned Mr Wamalwa against his new alliance with former Mungiki leader Maina Njenga. Mr Wamalwa, he said, should choose his friends wisely.www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Ruto%20meets%20Uhuru%20as%20new%202012%20alliance%20shapes%20up%20/-/1064/1062206/-/13wfsnvz/-/index.htmlOK HERE IS THE LINE UP.. RUTO, UHURU, WAMALWA where does this leave SAITOTI & KALONZO? and yes they have all the full blessing of the neighboring country president YOWERI MUSEVENI... do I see another 2007-2008 clashes being planned ahead? didn't one judge mentioned the same at a boundaries commission judgment ruling last week? is this an isolated case or a game plan to cause havoc in 2012? something stinks here! why!! because these groups of individuals are not planning towards a new Kenya but they want the statuesque to remain in place! and are using an excuse of wanting to stop one individual Raila for presidency? but they forget that KENYA DOES NOT BELONG TO RAILA! so how foolish do they take Kenyans for?? they need a wake up call..
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