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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 3:27:37 GMT 3
Given the current conversations and fights about people's sexuality; I think it a high time that we explore this issue in more detail. So, I'm starting this thread and here is a link to Pambazuka. www.pambazuka.org/en/category/features/73150
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Post by madgf on May 17, 2011 7:06:02 GMT 3
... The end result is that our learning processes grossly neglect to instruct us in the important concept of unlearning. Without this skill, it is extremely difficult for us to think critically and to question unjust frameworks or challenge the established order. Most of us passively absorb the assumptions and perspectives of the dominant view and many of us have a visceral negative reaction to the concept of sexuality. Unlearning literally requires us to discard our old eyes and acquire a new set with which to see the world. It requires us to jettison assumptions and prejudices that are so deep-seated and internalised that they have become normal and appear to be natural.
The critical process of transformative learning requires us to apply our intellect, unlearn deeply entrenched behaviour patterns and beliefs and relearn new ones. It requires us to acquire the vital skills to critically analyse internalised oppression and complicity with patriarchy and capitalism. It further requires us to step out of our familiar comfort zones and enter the world of discomfort and anxiety associated with change. Such processes, which call for a reorganisation of the old, are always fraught with difficulty, disequilibrium and stress.
This Reader on African Sexualities calls on us to do exactly that. It challenges us to confront issues that society has clothed in taboos, inhibitions and silences, to unclothe them, quiz them and give them voice. It certainly requires us to unlearn and relearn many things that we take for granted about sexualities and may well leave us confused, shocked, offended, embarrassed, scared and even a little excited. Many of us, for instance, will be baffled by the fact that issues of sexuality and desire, which are viewed as apolitical and private, are in fact steeped in politics and power relations. But such realisations are part of transformational learning and are reflections of our intellectual and political growth and our personal development.
To get maximum benefit from this Reader we need to pry our minds open to fresh ideas, absorb new knowledge and apply our intellect, knowledge and experience to develop a critical analysis of the issue at hand. Opening our minds means to accept differences, to see the world through the eyes of others, to open our ears to diverse viewpoints and to venture beyond our familiar horizons. To appreciate the Reader we have to tap deep into our inner resources of respect, empathy, tolerance, self-reflexivity and courage. We have to let our minds drift beyond the box, to see with our hands, hear with our skin and taste with our mind’s eye ... I love it!
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Post by roughrider on May 17, 2011 9:34:13 GMT 3
blah blah
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Post by kasuku on May 17, 2011 12:00:46 GMT 3
I.M.O there is no African or western Sexuality. The Title should be Human Sexuality. One time I visited a Ghanaian Hairdresser in her home. She has 4 daughters. The 9 year old daughter was going through a book that caught my eye. It was a young child book on sexuality. It has pictures that show better what’s being explained than words can do.
Everything that has to do with sexuality was pictured there - from the outside to inside organs, the act of sex, conceiving, embryo growing and birth of child.
For me that book was the answer to parents difficult in telling children about this topic. Just give them the book and wait for their questions. And of course the school should also tackle the topic n the biology subject.
I keep on telling Friends and siblings with teenagers that, if you let them (girls and boys) have an open crash on one another, they will be less exploited by older men and women who want to molest them.
Especially for girls, Teenager crashes have less to do with sexual act (actually before the puberty its when kids are more curios of sex and you will find even same sex children who are mimicking the act and touching each other’s organs) with teenager, It has more to do with testing your attractiveness to the opposite sex and practicing your sexual powers in the hunting field preparing for the time when you will be ready to reproduce.
She aren’t ready yet to reproduce and thus it will not happen if she is taught about the advantages as well as the disadvantages of the act prior to this time. She surely will not bring herself in a compromising situation.
And furthermore having a “boyfriend” (or keeping the same friends she was playing with as a small child) will be more for her advantage; firstly, she will have someone to protect her from sugar daddies. And secondly she will have someone to flirt with. I.M.O girls in teenager years are more mature than boys and thus control the situation.
In this sense, dads and moms here, if you have a teenager girl at home, please don’t stop her going out in the playing ground to play with her teenager “boyfriends” why would you do that anyway? Or do you have an old man with a “bunch of bulls” lined up for her dowry?
Think twice of the times we are living in today before you take that Bunch of bulls, otherwise you might be accused of conman man for the girl might ask for a divorce 6 months into the marriage. Today girls know their rights.
And tell your Boys to respect women just like they respect their mothers.
Education in Africa is overall due to reforms. And if we do it, we might have the best education in the world.
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Post by nalinali on May 17, 2011 12:22:51 GMT 3
I.M.O there is no African or western Sexuality. The Title should be Human Sexuality. One time I visited a Ghanaian Hairdresser in her home. She has 4 daughters. The 9 year old daughter was going through a book that caught my eye. It was a young child book on sexuality. It has pictures that show better what’s being explained than words can do. Everything that has to do with sexuality was pictured there - from the outside to inside organs, the act of sex, conceiving, embryo growing and birth of child. For me that book was the answer to parents difficult in teaching children this topic. Just give them the book and wait for their questions. And of course the school should also tackle the topic n the biology subject. I keep on telling Friends and siblings with teenagers that, if you let them (girls and boys) have an open crash on one another, they will be less exploited by older men and women who want to molest them. Especially for girls, Teenager crashes have less to do with sexual act (actually before the puberty its when kids are more curios on sexual act and you will find even same sex children who are mimicking the act and touching each other’s organs) with teenager, It has more to do with testing your attractiveness to the opposite sex and practicing your sexual powers in the hunting field preparing for the time when you will be ready to reproduce. She aren’t ready yet to reproduce and thus it will not happen if she is taught about the advantages as well as the disadvantages of the act prior to this time. She surely will not bring herself in a compromising situation. And furthermore having a “boyfriend” (or keeping the same friends she was playing with as a small child) will be more for her advantage; firstly, she will have someone to protect her from sugar daddies. And secondly she will have someone to flirt with. I.M.O girls in teenager years are more mature than boys and thus control the situation. In this sense, dads and moms here, if you have a teenager girl at home, please don’t stop her going out in the playing ground to play with her teenager “boyfriends” why would you do that anyway? Or do you have an old man with a “bunch of bulls” lined up for her dowry? Think twice of the times we are living in today before you take that Bunch of bulls, otherwise you might be accused of conman man for the girl might ask for a divorce 6 months into the marriage. Today girls know their rights. And tell your Boys to respect women just like they respect their mothers. Education in Africa is overall due to reforms. And if we do it, we might have the best education in the world. Sex is not to be confused with sexuality: the former is strictly biological and universal, while the latter invokes the whole range of concerns and interests in sexual activities and encompasses the various ways such interests are constructed a and nurtured. To bring the global scale to bear on the discussion is to implicate the many varied cultures of sexuality within the globe. the same applies for Africa. Thus the plural form Sexualities is in order when discussing sexuality.
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Post by kasuku on May 17, 2011 13:34:20 GMT 3
Sex is not to be confused with sexuality: the former is strictly biological and universal, while the latter invokes the whole range of concerns and interests in sexual activities and encompasses the various ways such interests are constructed a and nurtured. To bring the global scale to bear on the discussion is to implicate the many varied cultures of sexuality within the globe. the same applies for Africa. Thus the plural form Sexualities is in order when discussing sexuality. Where through phonograph, advertisings, Literature or even in the way we dress, sexuality is a constant topic anywhere in the world; we are as a mass and also as individuals constantly aware of the trends, attitudes, experiences, and beliefs of others Sexuality. That surely makes sexuality a Human being thing and not a country or tribe thing?
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Post by nalinali on May 17, 2011 13:43:10 GMT 3
Sex is not to be confused with sexuality: the former is strictly biological and universal, while the latter invokes the whole range of concerns and interests in sexual activities and encompasses the various ways such interests are constructed a and nurtured. To bring the global scale to bear on the discussion is to implicate the many varied cultures of sexuality within the globe. the same applies for Africa. Thus the plural form Sexualities is in order when discussing sexuality. Where through phonograph, advertisings, Literature or even in the way we dress, sexuality is a constant topic anywhere in the world; we are as a mass and also as individuals constantly aware of the trends, attitudes, experiences, and beliefs of others Sexuality. That surely makes sexuality a Human being thing and not a country or tribe thing? same way Language is human in every sense universal. As a topical focus you can invoke singularity but for identification purposes, one cannot avoid talking in plurality. same goes with sexualities. Don't quibble the issue as I am telling what every intelligent person should consider as granted.
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Post by kasuku on May 17, 2011 14:01:13 GMT 3
same way Language is human in every sense universal. As a topical focus you can invoke singularity but for identification purposes, one cannot avoid talking in plurality. same goes with sexualities. Don't quibble the issue as I am telling what every intelligent person should consider as granted. Excuse me Nalinali Am totally lost with you here. Please enlighten me, are you correcting peoples Grammar here or you are discussing the topic
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 14:14:41 GMT 3
I corrected the title: there is only one 'African Sexuality' and it is not described in that Western financed book. Yo, RR, go to hell eh. Start your own thread and call it whatever you want you obnoxious African. SEXUALITIES!!!
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Post by roughrider on May 17, 2011 16:23:47 GMT 3
blah blah
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Post by roughrider on May 17, 2011 16:33:54 GMT 3
Sex is not to be confused with sexuality: the former is strictly biological and universal, while the latter invokes the whole range of concerns and interests in sexual activities and encompasses the various ways such interests are constructed a and nurtured. To bring the global scale to bear on the discussion is to implicate the many varied cultures of sexuality within the globe. the same applies for Africa. Thus the plural form Sexualities is in order when discussing sexuality. You are right about the definition and wrong about the plurality. While in fact expression of sexuality is becoming blurred across continents due to globalization, there is a distinct form of sexuality that can be described as uniquely and traditionally African. It is a conservative variety. That African sexuality, along with African identity, has been progressively eroded by Western culture. Unfortunately the African contribution to global discourse on sexual expression has been stifled by our indigence, inferiority complex and an inexplicable admiration for anything 'white'.
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Post by nalinali on May 17, 2011 16:44:58 GMT 3
Sex is not to be confused with sexuality: the former is strictly biological and universal, while the latter invokes the whole range of concerns and interests in sexual activities and encompasses the various ways such interests are constructed a and nurtured. To bring the global scale to bear on the discussion is to implicate the many varied cultures of sexuality within the globe. the same applies for Africa. Thus the plural form Sexualities is in order when discussing sexuality. You are right about the definition and wrong about the plurality. While in fact expression of sexuality is becoming blurred across continents due to globalization, there is a distinct form of sexuality that can be described as uniquely and traditionally African. It is a conservative variety. That African sexuality, along with African identity, has been progressively eroded by Western culture. Unfortunately the African contribution to global discourse on sexual expression has been stifled by our indigence, inferiority complex and an inexplicable admiration for anything 'white'. May be. Hoever, such a supposition has to contend with contend with the fact that there is no monolithic unit called Africa beyond the geo-historical referent. What we have is an amalgam of societies that are similar but not uniform in their outlook. Bear in mind the intersections of race and ethnicity and how they mitigate the fluidity and variability of sexuality across the geographical space we call Africa. At this time essentialization of whole groups of people is the last thing you would want to do. Africa has no single continent wide sexuality. OK.
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Post by roughrider on May 17, 2011 16:56:04 GMT 3
May be. Hoever, such a supposition has to contend with contend with the fact that there is no monolithic unit called Africa beyond the geo-historical referent. What we have is an amalgam of societies that are similar but not uniform in their outlook. Bear in mind the intersections of race and ethnicity and how they mitigate the fluidity and variability of sexuality across the geographical space we call Africa. At this time essentialization of whole groups of people is the last thing you would want to do. Africa has no single continent wide sexuality. OK. OK. Africa today is clearly a melting pot. I agree. Slave trade, colonialism, neocolonialism and globalization have ensured that. But a careful study of African history (including migrations) will narrow down historical Africa to some common threads. But this is not what I speak of. I speak of Africa sexuality in much the same way somebody might talk of African consciousness or Ubuntu as examples. At the core most African societies had similar ethics. To argue as you do is in the final analysis to deny that there is something or anything uniquely African. A contention that is difficult to accept.
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Post by job on May 17, 2011 17:21:05 GMT 3
Yo, RR, go to hell eh. Start your own thread and call it whatever you want you obnoxious African. SEXUALITIES!!! Kathure Why the anger and childishness? I was under the misguided impression that you started this thread because you wanted feedback. But oh, I was so wrong. You are probably a narrow-minded person who writes with emotions rather than brains.
I will assume it is that time of the month and ignore your insults. Roughrider,Since when did chauvinistic, contemptuous & sexist insults and abuses pass for feedback? You sometimes amaze with this kind of vile crap! You owe not just Kathure, but all members of JUKWAA, an apology for crossing the line with these tawdry insults (above).Then - this notion that a singular African sexuality exists (lorded by the likes of aggressive masculine Roughriders) is simply refusal to admit reality. If you went to a boarding school in Africa, and were more than casually keen on observing your surroundings, you would have long arrived at the conclusion that there is in fact a plurality (& complexities you can't probably explain) regarding AFRICAN SEXUALITIES whether about sexual desires, identities, practices, fantasies, taboos, abuses etc. Remember that boarding school is actually where a lot of peri-pubertal kids and early teens start discovering issues about their own sexuality(ies), and sometimes experimenting with their own bodies. There's a heck'uv differences for real. This book is written by African scholars, not some Western colonialist as Roughrider implies. African scholars have themselves observed very interesting things regarding sexualities (YES - in plural form) within deeply tucked (& remote)rural African societies, whether you're talking about homosexuality, bisexuality and even more. Variations exist intraculturally and interculturally, even without historical evolution or influences from the outside. That extra role of external infuences nalinali notes also counts. Am I surprised Roughrider is probably in such denial? Nope, he in fact has significant company within the continent. It is simply the negative energy of hating people who don't look or act like yourself, that often makes some fellas engage in homophobia or blatant refusal to admit the existence of differences. In my view, Kasuku is also right in pointing out the fact that there's nothing unique about being African when it comes to sexualities. We should be talking about human sexualities. But, in this case, the authors have a right to focus (I presume very deliberately) the topic discussion in Africa, where the likes of Roughrider still rigidly cling to denial and this notion that "things are only this way here".
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Post by roughrider on May 17, 2011 17:24:12 GMT 3
An article that might interest some here. Is there anything that is truly and uniquely African? African Culture And Personality: Bad Social Science, Effective Social Activism, Or A Call To Reinvent Ethnology?www.africa.ufl.edu/asq/v3/v3i3a1.htm
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Post by madgf on May 17, 2011 17:30:24 GMT 3
RR, you seem a bit irate of late, what are you even doing on this thread? I hope all is well.
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Post by roughrider on May 17, 2011 17:31:26 GMT 3
Since when did vile, contemptuous insults and abuses pass for feedback? You sometimes amaze with this kind of vile crap! You owe not just Kathure, but all members of JUKWAA, an apology for crossing the line with your tawdry insults. Job - I am sure that you failed to notice Kathure telling me to go to hell and calling me obnoxious African (is African still an insult in North America?) simply because I had a view she did not like. In fact my initial feedback was a harmless correction! Why is Kathure so well protected on Jukwaa?
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Post by roughrider on May 17, 2011 17:37:56 GMT 3
RR, you seem a bit irate of late, what are you even doing on this thread? I hope all is well. Ok you guys may be right, Kathure is an angel. I will remove my 'offending' comments and get off this thread.
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Post by job on May 17, 2011 17:53:08 GMT 3
Since when did vile, contemptuous insults and abuses pass for feedback? You sometimes amaze with this kind of vile crap! You owe not just Kathure, but all members of JUKWAA, an apology for crossing the line with your tawdry insults. Job - I am sure that you failed to notice Kathure telling me to go to hell and calling me obnoxious African (is African still an insult in North America?) simply because I had a view she did not like. In fact my initial feedback was a harmless correction!
Why is Kathure so well protected on Jukwaa? The last time I checked the rules of debate in JUKWAA, there was still a zero tolerance policy against sexism (discrimination against women or men because of their sex). On the other hand, the rules don't bar you from using superfluous or colorful language like go to hell or calling me terms like obnoxious, ridiculous and such. I don't know whether calling anyone African has ever been an insult in North America. You may be confusing it with a derogatory term starting with the letter "N". Blacks in North America have actually demanded to be called African Americans. Your parting shot is yet again very sexist. What are you insinuating about Kathure being so well protected in JUKWAA? Do you honestly think she can't defend herself? And by the way are you again insinuating masculine protection? Stop these games where once your sexist (offensive) insults are pointed out, you start crying that the target (of your insult) is being given undue "protection". Why can't we simply abide by JUKWAA's rules and apologize whenever we cross the line of the zero-tolerance policy? Is that (simple apology) too painful to bear?
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Post by roughrider on May 17, 2011 18:09:09 GMT 3
Job;
You are so obviously biased in this matter. Anyhow you may have noticed that I simply removed my comments.
Thanks for re-capping the rules so selectively. I thought trash talking of the kind Kathure so obviously engaged in was also 'illegal', ama?
And perhaps you would have noted that she started this. But you did not.
If I think kathure is protected that is what I think. Has zero to do with her gender. Unless you know something I don’t.
Kindly enlighten me further: is it also the case that in Jukwaa when you start a thread you can chose who responds and how they respond. Is that a rule of Jukwaa?
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Post by job on May 17, 2011 18:44:17 GMT 3
Roughrider,
Removing the comments in lieu of apology? To some, it's quite difficult to simply say sorry or apologize.
On thread censorship (who responds), - who actually stopped you from responding? Isn't this still you responding to this thread started by Kathure?
I'll leave it there.
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Post by merlin on May 17, 2011 18:57:13 GMT 3
Oh man there we go again derailing a thread what could be an interesting discussion and learning process.
Anyway I am looking forward to the book as the reader gives the impression of a serious attempt to define African Sexuality.
I find it very difficult to speak about African sexuality even in Kenya there are many diverse cultures each with their own sexuality. The only commonality I can find is in general Kenyan culture seems mainly autocratic also within the confines of the close family relations. It is a culture of obedience to above and ownership to below. Although there is care and responsibilities, there seems to be little sharing or equality. Sexuality seems to be a matter of ownership / rights at onside and obedience / submission at the other side. I do not know where to place notions as love, inspiration and respect.
Does watching African films on DSTV “Magic world and Africa Magic” provide an inside in the African psyche?
RR mentions “African societies of similar ethics”. However I do not perceive much ethics as it can be plainly translated into power structures.
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Post by politicalmaniac on May 17, 2011 19:04:31 GMT 3
The Pambazuka article was too wordy, too long, too convoluted to digest. At the end of the day I could not tell you what its all about. It made me mentally constipated - and you know what happened next - brain farts! Is this article a preamble to a book? Is this meant for scholars ama laypeople? Anyway here is a moving article about a 6'8" black man, a basket ball player and his story of coming out. Its very moving esp the part where his father looks at that tall frame and cant come to grips that his son is gay.!!! Its well written, It has a beautiful ending. This is all a lesson to folks with kids on this board. Expect the unexpected with your children!!!!. The guy has Kenyan connections Soma HAPA
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Post by mank on May 17, 2011 21:38:23 GMT 3
The Pambazuka article was too wordy, too long, too convoluted to digest. At the end of the day I could not tell you what its all about ..... Precisely my take! Severally I have thought I just don't have a clue what the author, and all who seem to know what they are discussing are actually discussing. What are sexualities? Somewhere I found the author tending to define them, then suddenly the author said the defination was not exhaustive. Where is the exaustive one then? haghhhh! .... on another read of what I thought was partial definition I find no definition whatsoever!
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 21:54:35 GMT 3
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