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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 22, 2011 16:12:49 GMT 3
Whilst I applause the generosity given to Mutai, I must question the ferocious publicity? Eti a big headline - Raila rescues Chelagat Mutai by a disciple named John Oywa. Did he really rescue? She was taken to a national hospital, and the most done for her was probably payment of her bills. Even the poor woman was ashamed of the naked opportunism. A sullen Mutai initially refused to speak to The Standard and KTN team as a few neighbours gathered to witness her departure to hospital.
"I don’t want to be interviewed here please. Let me go to the hospital first," she said, apparently embarrassed by her situation. My point is there are a lot of sick and poor Kenyans across the country and many out there help as much as they can without any 'political' drumming for publicity. Shame when poor and sick people are helped for political mileage! "Jane" & othersI knew as soon as I posted this story that tribalists will not resist the temptation to come peddle their cheap trade on the matter. So far I have not been disappointed. It is always the same thing. Ooh I like what has happened but......... Now some are behaving as if Raila ordered the Standard to put the story in the headlines. Just sheer rubbish. For those who do not know, Raila is not a stranger to Chelagat Mutai and I guess that is why Ms Mutai reached out to him. Why didn't she call Kibaki? Because they do not know each other. Mutai came to political prominence when I was a form 1 student at Chianda Secondary School. I noticed her because I was already awake politically at age 14. I liked her guts almost by instinct. By the time I joined the university in 1981, Ms Mutai was still a political powerhouse in the country being tormented by the new Moi regime. At that time Raila was already involved in politics. I first saw Raila at Taifa Hall when he came with Orengo (a close friend of Mutai) to listen to a speech by Koigi Wamwere addressing a public forum with the students. By 1983 Mutai had to flee the country with Orengo to avoid trumped up charges and by that time Raila was in Moi's prisons. So these were already comrades facing the might of the Moi regime with a lot of courage. So to me I feel very encouraged seeing comrades reaching out to help each other. It is way better than waiting until folks are dead and making glowing speeches at their funerals which is what happens a lot of times. Of course there are so many other poor sick people, but that would be a terrible excuse for people to say let's forget the Mutais after all it is all their fault that they are poor. Like I have said Mutai made choices to defend her country and that choice is certainly the reason she is where she is. It is a great honour to our country for good people to pick her up and hopefully she will be fully back on her feet. I think it is petty to be whining about publicity and dragging cheap politics in this matter. It breaks my heart a million times to see so many good friends and comrades dying out there in terrible conditions while we hold parades for independence days and Shujaa days. Bildad Kaggia faced that indignity. Peter Young Kihara who first joined the Mau Mau as a boy and fought all his living life for his country was languishing with cancer when the same Raila reached out to help him and later built a house for his wife. Nobody complained about votes and all such rubbish. I wrote earlier in this Jukwaa about Harris Okong'o Arara a beloved son of the land who gave his youth, his energy and interllect to his country and later perished in the streets with no trace. For some it might be OK to sit by and wait for the grand plan to help these folks. For me even the very little that can be done now matters a great deal. I have argued before and I intend to take this matter up in the so called new Kenya that I see no reason why Kenyan veteran political prisoners should not be treated at the Armed Forces Memorial Hospital. Those are the people who have gone to war for their country. That is their hospital. That is an issue for another day. But for goodness sakes can people not drag their tribal wars into a simple matter of compassion and humanity between comrades. Is that going to kill anybody?. I hope not. And to Mrs Jane Sadik, having a name starting with an "O" is not a crime or a sin yet in Kenya. Please try to get a grip on your toxic tribalism. It stinks. adongo
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Post by jane on Jun 22, 2011 16:52:55 GMT 3
Whilst I applause the generosity given to Mutai, I must question the ferocious publicity? Eti a big headline - Raila rescues Chelagat Mutai by a disciple named John Oywa. Did he really rescue? She was taken to a national hospital, and the most done for her was probably payment of her bills. Even the poor woman was ashamed of the naked opportunism. A sullen Mutai initially refused to speak to The Standard and KTN team as a few neighbours gathered to witness her departure to hospital.
"I don’t want to be interviewed here please. Let me go to the hospital first," she said, apparently embarrassed by her situation. My point is there are a lot of sick and poor Kenyans across the country and many out there help as much as they can without any 'political' drumming for publicity. Shame when poor and sick people are helped for political mileage! "Jane" & othersI knew as soon as I posted this story that tribalists will not resist the temptation to come peddle their cheap trade on the matter. So far I have not been disappointed. It is always the same thing. Ooh I like what has happened but......... Now some are behaving as if Raila ordered the Standard to put the story in the headlines. Just sheer rubbish. For those who do not know, Raila is not a stranger to Chelagat Mutai and I guess that is why Ms Mutai reached out to him. Why didn't she call Kibaki? Because they do not know each other. Mutai came to political prominence when I was a form 1 student at Chianda Secondary School. I noticed her because I was already awake politically at age 14. I liked her guts almost by instinct. By the time I joined the university in 1981, Ms Mutai was still a political powerhouse in the country being tormented by the new Moi regime. At that time Raila was already involved in politics. I first saw Raila at Taifa Hall when he came with Orengo (a close friend of Mutai) to listen to a speech by Koigi Wamwere addressing a public forum with the students. By 1983 Mutai had to flee the country with Orengo to avoid trumped up charges and by that time Raila was in Moi's prisons. So these were already comrades facing the might of the Moi regime with a lot of courage. So to me I feel very encouraged seeing comrades reaching out to help each other. It is way better than waiting until folks are dead and making glowing speeches at their funerals which is what happens a lot of times. Of course there are so many other poor sick people, but that would be a terrible excuse for people to say let's forget the Mutais after all it is all their fault that they are poor. Like I have said Mutai made choices to defend her country and that choice is certainly the reason she is where she is. It is a great honour to our country for good people to pick her up and hopefully she will be fully back on her feet. I think it is petty to be whining about publicity and dragging cheap politics in this matter. It breaks my heart a million times to see so many good friends and comrades dying out there in terrible conditions while we hold parades for independence days and Shujaa days. Bildad Kaggia faced that indignity. Peter Young Kihara who first joined the Mau Mau as a boy and fought all his living life for his country was languishing with cancer when the same Raila reached out to help him and later built a house for his wife. Nobody complained about votes and all such rubbish. I wrote earlier in these Jukwaa about Harris Okong'o Arara a beloved son of the land who gave his youth, his energy and interllect to his country and later perished in the streets with no trace. For some it might be OK to sit by and wait for the grand plan to help these folks. For me even the very little that can be done now matters a great deal. I have argued before and I intend to take this matter up in the so called new Kenya that I see no reason why Kenyan veteran political prisoners should not be treated at the Armed Forces Memorial Hospital. Those are the people who have gone to war for their country. That is their hospital. That is an issue for another day. But for goodness sakes can people not drag their tribal wars into a simple matter of compassion and humanity between comrades. Is that going to kill anybody?. I hope not. And to Mrs Jane Sadik, having a name starting with an "O" is not a crime or a sin yet in Kenya. Please try to get a grip on your toxic tribalism. It stinks. adongo AdongoYou have addressed yourself to me, hence my response. I have read with amazement how you frequently write about yourself. You did this or that shows how shallow you sound, you only see yourself, not others. Quit blowing your own trumpet, you sound very cheap. Let people praise you, if you have done something worthy mentioning, people will, unless you haven’t done anything to talk about. Second, UoN is a public institution where many Kenyans of all walks of life have graced since its inception. You yap yap here as the only person to have studied at UoN. Raila courted publicity, in a press report written by a disciple called John Oywa, and made possible for his pictures, especially the pathetic one where he ( and Orengo) are pushing Chelagat on a wheel chair to appear in the press, pictures taken by a disciple called Jonah Odhiambo, is a sheer act of manipulation. Granted, Chelgat is sick and needs helps, sought the same from Raila who obliged. Did he therefore have to parade her as some trophy in full glare of the press? Would it not be much more civilized if Raila asked his driver to pick up Chelagat and take her to the Hospital having organized for her to be admitted there. You claim the two are friends. Then if true, the more it is that the situation demands utmost respect and decency when helping a friend, not opportunism. You accuse others of tribalism but you are the one who introduced tribe. I did not mention Chelagat’s tribe, you did.
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Post by enigma on Jun 22, 2011 17:14:13 GMT 3
My grandfather was a freedom fighter. When is Raila going to visit? NARCISISM Quite unlike. Read subsequent posts. Or does seeing things singularly for what they are qualify as such?
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Post by politicalmaniac on Jun 22, 2011 17:22:37 GMT 3
What impressed me the most is the state of her mind. Very sharp. I know many people who would gladly work with her. Now we have a bunch of thieves and suspected master criminals and some clowns running around eti they are the owners of Kalenjin politics to be worshipped as heroes. That is the tragedy ot it all. Raila did a good thing here and I hope he keeps his word to her the way he did with the family of the legendary Peter Young Kihara. Indeed the Rt Hon Prime Minister continues to be the glue that holds together a fragile Nation. He continues to act as a bridge between the dastardly past tyrannical regime, the current corrupt and murderous mafiya regime and the future, hopefully a much glorious one. There is no politician in Kenya with the keen sense of History, and the significance of the present, like the Rt Hon Prime Minister. I wonder if Ms Mutai still has fire in her belly that can enable her to think about serving the Nation in general and her people in particular. Its sad that megalomanic kleptomaniacs borne in the kipkorios era are now pretenders to the throne, yet they have done nothing to help their own people. What a s/hero she is. What happened to her immediate family, does anyone know?
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 22, 2011 17:29:22 GMT 3
"Jane" & othersI knew as soon as I posted this story that tribalists will not resist the temptation to come peddle their cheap trade on the matter. So far I have not been disappointed. It is always the same thing. Ooh I like what has happened but......... Now some are behaving as if Raila ordered the Standard to put the story in the headlines. Just sheer rubbish. For those who do not know, Raila is not a stranger to Chelagat Mutai and I guess that is why Ms Mutai reached out to him. Why didn't she call Kibaki? Because they do not know each other. Mutai came to political prominence when I was a form 1 student at Chianda Secondary School. I noticed her because I was already awake politically at age 14. I liked her guts almost by instinct. By the time I joined the university in 1981, Ms Mutai was still a political powerhouse in the country being tormented by the new Moi regime. At that time Raila was already involved in politics. I first saw Raila at Taifa Hall when he came with Orengo (a close friend of Mutai) to listen to a speech by Koigi Wamwere addressing a public forum with the students. By 1983 Mutai had to flee the country with Orengo to avoid trumped up charges and by that time Raila was in Moi's prisons. So these were already comrades facing the might of the Moi regime with a lot of courage. So to me I feel very encouraged seeing comrades reaching out to help each other. It is way better than waiting until folks are dead and making glowing speeches at their funerals which is what happens a lot of times. Of course there are so many other poor sick people, but that would be a terrible excuse for people to say let's forget the Mutais after all it is all their fault that they are poor. Like I have said Mutai made choices to defend her country and that choice is certainly the reason she is where she is. It is a great honour to our country for good people to pick her up and hopefully she will be fully back on her feet. I think it is petty to be whining about publicity and dragging cheap politics in this matter. It breaks my heart a million times to see so many good friends and comrades dying out there in terrible conditions while we hold parades for independence days and Shujaa days. Bildad Kaggia faced that indignity. Peter Young Kihara who first joined the Mau Mau as a boy and fought all his living life for his country was languishing with cancer when the same Raila reached out to help him and later built a house for his wife. Nobody complained about votes and all such rubbish. I wrote earlier in these Jukwaa about Harris Okong'o Arara a beloved son of the land who gave his youth, his energy and interllect to his country and later perished in the streets with no trace. For some it might be OK to sit by and wait for the grand plan to help these folks. For me even the very little that can be done now matters a great deal. I have argued before and I intend to take this matter up in the so called new Kenya that I see no reason why Kenyan veteran political prisoners should not be treated at the Armed Forces Memorial Hospital. Those are the people who have gone to war for their country. That is their hospital. That is an issue for another day. But for goodness sakes can people not drag their tribal wars into a simple matter of compassion and humanity between comrades. Is that going to kill anybody?. I hope not. And to Mrs Jane Sadik, having a name starting with an "O" is not a crime or a sin yet in Kenya. Please try to get a grip on your toxic tribalism. It stinks. adongo AdongoYou have addressed yourself to me, hence my response. I have read with amazement how you frequently write about yourself. You did this or that shows how shallow you sound, you only see yourself, not others. Quit blowing your own trumpet, you sound very cheap. Let people praise you, if you have done something worthy mentioning, people will, unless you haven’t done anything to talk about. Second, UoN is a public institution where many Kenyans of all walks of life have graced since its inception. You yap yap here as the only person to have studied at UoN. Raila courted publicity, in a press report written by a disciple called John Oywa, and made possible for his pictures, especially the pathetic one where he ( and Orengo) are pushing Chelagat on a wheel chair to appear in the press, pictures taken by a disciple called Jonah Odhiambo, is a sheer act of manipulation. Granted, Chelgat is sick and needs helps, sought the same from Raila who obliged. Did he therefore have to parade her as some trophy in full glare of the press? Would it not be much more civilized if Raila asked his driver to pick up Chelagat and take her to the Hospital having organized for her to be admitted there. You claim the two are friends. Then if true, the more it is that the situation demands utmost respect and decency when helping a friend, not opportunism. You accuse others of tribalism but you are the one who introduced tribe. I did not mention Chelagat’s tribe, you did. Mrs. Jane Sadik,You have addressed me I will address you. First of all I am very proud of who I am. I have not written enough about myself but I keep trying. I have a book in the works. I will send you a copy no doubt. Don't worry about which University college I went to. My most valuable learning has been outside stuffy tuition blocks and libraries. The greatest university I have attended is that of life itself. You can learn anywhere unless you are an idiot. So take heart and learn wherever you are. I have been an activist all my life and a very proud one at that. I write here in Jukwaa by my own name by choice. I do not mind people calling themslves any other names online. In fact writing clandestinely for Society Magazine in the 1990s I used the name Jane Mutai. Don't laugh folks, I am not making this up. When I met my friends back in Nairobi later and they were showing me these articles by a Jane Mutai, I told them that was me and they laughed uncontrollably. So we share a name. I hope you don't mind me sharing that. hehehehehehe. I am a story teller. The best story tellers relate their stories to their real lives. It makes the stories come home. It gives life to the stories. My 14 year old son tells me I am a great story teller. That means the world to me. In fact he often demands I tell him stories even when I am not into it. He writes too and his teachers tell me he is as good as they have seen. So for me politcs, life and family is pretty much the same thing. But that is just for me. Now about your ridiculous tribalism. You seem to be obssesed with names that start with an 'O". In your strange world anybody with a name starting with an "O" is a disciple of Raila. I find this kind of thinking sick and shallow. Can you explain to us why "Onyango" the photographer and "Oywa" the reporter are Raila's disciples? Do you know them? I will wait for your explanation. As far I know they are employees of the Standard. So fill us in on their other jobs that you seem to know so much about. As for Mutai, my happiness for her is that she is getting the help she needs. If that woman died politicians would be trooping to her funeral to give speeches live on TV and praising her and her struggles for a better Kenya. It matters little to me that I saw her in the paper getting help not being buried amid furious speeches. Mutai is a national figure. Her story matters to Kenya and I guess that is why the media covered her story. I doubt the media would bother if some vinyangarikas called Jane Sadik or Adongo Ogony were being wheeled to a hospital. It will just be us and our families so don't worry about the media. My concern for Mutai is her health and I was delighted to read what she had to say. She was very happy with the comfort and companionship her comrades offered to her and you can be sure she is going to recieve all sorts of visitors and well wishers on her side. Thsi woman's story is important to the country and if that pains a few tribalists who cares. adongo
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Post by politicalmaniac on Jun 22, 2011 17:37:18 GMT 3
People, I know some of you 'worship' Raila. but sometimes it helps to think out of the box. What I wrote was simply an acknowledgement of the help given to Chelagat, but equally I raised eyebrows on how the help was offered. Further, I saw pictures taken by a disciple, Jonah Onyango, pasted across the Standard. I ask, was it compassionate for Raila ( and Orengo) to push Chelagat on her wheelchair, or was it a photo op? Bwana Janey ;D There is nothing that stopped you, or katwa, or kigen, gedion or ruto to go push that chair that had Ms Mutai. There is nothing that stopped you from going to help her out. You should have known where she was living isnt it? Why is she avoiding you and your people but appealing to the Rt Hon Prime Minister, and Orengo 'ajimi' as my friends call him? Because they are cut from the same cloth, that of patriotism, freedom and good governance. There is a reason you fellows avoid her like the plague. Its called greed and corruption.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Jun 22, 2011 17:39:24 GMT 3
My grandfather was a freedom fighter. When is Raila going to visit? to us (here on jukwaa) who know (?) you, you are (an) enigma, so just how will those who dont yet know you, then know who your grandfather is? == the issue of forgotten heros/heroines who struggled to give us the opportunities and freedoms we enjoy today is a really bitter pill. it stretches from way back in the pre-independence years and into the late 90's and even a few in the past decade. instead we have those that collaborated with the oppressors looting and benefiting and at the expense of the liberators and their families. those who had the moral decency not to plunder public resources or enrich themselves while depraving others or whether their own communities or not, have lived in very depraved conditions. anytime any one of these is recognized, honored and genuinely provided with resources to improve their well-being is something we all appreciate. putting up a statue in the middle of town may appear to be something, but these guys need direct attention, care and assistance kudos to RAO and all others who make this effort. let those wanting to read politics go ahead, end of the day, yet one more hero/heroine is recognized and much needed care provided. enigma i agree with the others write to the PM and have your grandfather also share others out there also needing attention (i.e assistance, recognition or other) For those whose grandfathers served as freedom fighters, you should be proud of them. In that fight there were the generals/leaders and foot soldiers. Everyone had a role. The foot soldiers were usually anonymous fellows. It doesnt negate their contribution. Perhaps its only you and your family and neighbors who know what they did. THE ONUS IS ON YOU TO TELL US ABOUT HIS BRAVE CONTRIBUTION. Otherwise how am I and others gonna know? We are not omniscient angels to come swooping down in your village and declaring him a hero. And the Rt Hon Prime Minister isnt one either. If your grandfather was an anonymous foot soldier, and is languishing somewhere, thats too bad. Its your fault Wondering cynically why the Rt Hon Prime Minister has not visited him is beyond silly. Its stupid nonsense. Why dont you ask the homeguard kimendeeero to go pay homage to him? Or your murderous lord muthamaki?
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Post by Mobimba on Jun 22, 2011 17:59:36 GMT 3
Jane,
IF Raila engineered the inclusion of the 'Chelegat Rescue' in the press, his sole intention may have been to simply highlight the horrific plight of yesteryear heroes. What's wrong with that?
You want him to be discreet but what makes you think he hasn't been in other similar cases? You wouldn't know, right?
The symbolism of a warrior helping a fellow wounded warrior to safety is precisely what that picture, that you find so distasteful, is all about. The two have been through the same war. Raila is simply initiating the conversation recognizing and appreciating our national heroes of the final liberation.
As a nation crafting a new republic, it's important that we fete our heroes. Let us not be like Kenyatta who trashed the mau mau veterans.
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Post by akinyi2005 on Jun 22, 2011 18:03:49 GMT 3
Adongo,
you had me in stitches regarding your clandestine name Jane Mutai. for whatever reason the names Jane and Mary always come to mind whenever one wants to a fake a female name why is that? you can see shamed and busted 'jane of jukwaa' clinging onto his new handle like his dear life depended on it.
Anyway, i was hoping the haters and tribalists would give this thread a wide berth and let this be about Chelagat Mutai and all the forgotten heroes who sacrificed so much for the liberties that we now enjoy.
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Post by enigma on Jun 22, 2011 19:14:11 GMT 3
to us (here on jukwaa) who know (?) you, you are (an) enigma, so just how will those who dont yet know you, then know who your grandfather is? == the issue of forgotten heros/heroines who struggled to give us the opportunities and freedoms we enjoy today is a really bitter pill. it stretches from way back in the pre-independence years and into the late 90's and even a few in the past decade. instead we have those that collaborated with the oppressors looting and benefiting and at the expense of the liberators and their families. those who had the moral decency not to plunder public resources or enrich themselves while depraving others or whether their own communities or not, have lived in very depraved conditions. anytime any one of these is recognized, honored and genuinely provided with resources to improve their well-being is something we all appreciate. putting up a statue in the middle of town may appear to be something, but these guys need direct attention, care and assistance kudos to RAO and all others who make this effort. let those wanting to read politics go ahead, end of the day, yet one more hero/heroine is recognized and much needed care provided. enigma i agree with the others write to the PM and have your grandfather also share others out there also needing attention (i.e assistance, recognition or other) For those whose grandfathers served as freedom fighters, you should be proud of them. In that fight there were the generals/leaders and foot soldiers. Everyone had a role. The foot soldiers were usually anonymous fellows. It doesnt negate their contribution. Perhaps its only you and your family and neighbors who know what they did. THE ONUS IS ON YOU TO TELL US ABOUT HIS BRAVE CONTRIBUTION. Otherwise how am I and others gonna know? We are not omniscient angels to come swooping down in your village and declaring him a hero. And the Rt Hon Prime Minister isnt one either. If your grandfather was an anonymous foot soldier, and is languishing somewhere, thats too bad. Its your fault Wondering cynically why the Rt Hon Prime Minister has not visited him is beyond silly. Its stupid nonsense. Why dont you ask the homeguard kimendeeero to go pay homage to him? Or your murderous lord muthamaki? Neither did I suggest that he needs to swoop into villages looking for heroes. Perhaps you miss the sarcasm. But the main thrust of my argument is that recognition of heroes needs to be a policy thing, not the occasional photo-op. And I stand by that. Your insinuation that somehow my view point could only find favor in Mt Kenya is what we have come to expect from certain ''progressives''. Criticizing the PM's actions does not turn one into a Muthamaki/Kimeendero sycophant. I can point to a lot of other praiseworthy stuff he has done. But I see a lot of room for improvement and am not afraid to make the call. In fact you are the sycophant as far as am concerned (the hear no evil, speak no evil dyed-in-the-wool stuck-in-the-mud apologist).
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Post by mangai on Jun 22, 2011 20:41:05 GMT 3
It must be difficult being Raila Amolo Odinga. Whatever he does however noble it might seem tends to attract both criticism and praise in equal measure perhaps an attestation to the Railaphobia and Railamania the late Hon. Kijana Wamalwa had alluded to.
In my opinion, and as Lincoln has argued, the PM's gesture highlights the suffering the liberation heroes and heroines are facing. The Nation also ran the Chelagat Mutai story. It is good it is publicized for Kenyans to realise that we are where we are as a result of the sacrifices some people had to make but which sacrifices we are so fast in forgetting. Being a 'comrade in the struggle' most probably makes Raila empathise with their sufferings.
It makes sad reading to realise how Mutai had been left to 'rot away' in her sickness.
Somebody arguing that Chelagat once worked for Kanu and KCB should have in itself made her 'rich' perpetuates the long held believe that in Kenya one becomes rich just by working for the Government. Yes you can achieve that but only by largely being corrupt. While it is true that the super rich guys we have currently once held senior positions in Govt, it should also be recalled that there are others who because of their integrity and forth rightness left the Govt or died 'poor'.
I have in mind George Moseti Anyona, Chibule wa Tsuma, Mwashengu wa Mwachofi, Achieng Aneko, Bildad Kaggia, Koigi wa Wamwere, Mukaru Nganga, Martin Shikuku, Peter Kihara Young among many others.
In Kenya, one becomes a star/famous if he is perceived to be wealthy, the source of his wealth not withstanding. Kenyans might be subconsciously condoning corruption.
It is also ironical that most of the current and past wielders of power have not been associated with the second liberation struggle. May be Mutunga's appointment as CJ might be the odd one out or a sign of things to come as a result of the new constitution.
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Post by Luol Deng on Jun 22, 2011 20:47:38 GMT 3
enigma,
I get your point, but there are several challenges to implementing such a measure as a policy. It will need a 'hero' to be strictly defined, not an easy task. Making a broad definition will make almost everyone qualify, a very narrow definition may also leave out legitimate heroes.
Finally and most importantly, Kenya is still an aid dependent economy. If they enforce such a policy the IMF & world bank will invariably ask them to abolish it in the name of 'removing waste', just ask the Greeks. I don't think Kenya will be willing to go against the IMF...
As for Raila's gesture. I think it is a case of he is doomed if he does it & doomed if he doesn't. It was Chelagat who approached him, if it were Ruto or any other high profile politician afforded the chance they would have taken it. If Raila would have turned down the opportunity, he would have been roasted. Now that he responded to the opportunity, critics were definitely going to attack. It is a no win situation.
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Post by commes on Jun 22, 2011 22:37:47 GMT 3
Finally and most importantly, Kenya is still an aid dependent economy. JukwaaAllow me to introduce the term fungible or fungibility to Jukwaa (please Google if you must). I speak as someone who has worked with the UK DFID at some senior level . Please note that you did not hear this from me . All it means in simple layman terms is substitutable or substitutability. Here is a case in point. The Government of Kenya budgets for over 490 billion for free education in Kenya based on expected tax revenue that you and me pay. The UK government gives 7 billion (a drop in the ocean) as a gesture of being a “friend” to Kenya. Out of the 490 billion, the government can fudge or purge 7 billion of the UK money and use part of our 490 billion tax money to account for the 7 billion of the UK money. The 7 billion would disappear and end up in Prof. Ongeri’s pocket for example. No one would notice if this small amount of 7 billion disappears. It shall be accounted for anyways. UK does not demand original receipts or supporting documents. However the UK relies on "smart” audit trail and a few “shortchanged” Kenyans. Now this will explain why the government of the UK is asking for its "meager 7b money" back. This phenomenon happens across all government ministries. The government will accept this “ surplus” money to line pockets of influential Politian’s in " utmost" good faith ( on behalf of the people of the Republic) . The various line ministries using invoices and receipts from “ cowboy contractors and suppliers” will account for donor money and what you call aid money. Tax payers like you and me will foot the actual bill. This is how the deficit of fraud in the FPE was reduced from over 7 billion to 4.2 billion using " receipti fake"Kenya is not aid dependent. That is what the government wants you to believe. Donor and “aiders” only contribute about 5% of our budget.To say that Kenya is aid dependant is misleading. The donor community contributes and equivalent of about 5% of GDP. We, Kenya, loose over 40% of GDP in corrupt and fraudulent deals excluding Government waste like the Turkwell gorge “white elephant projects”. I hope we are together.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Jun 22, 2011 22:48:28 GMT 3
Neither did I suggest that he needs to swoop into villages looking for heroes. Perhaps you miss the sarcasm. But the main thrust of my argument is that recognition of heroes needs to be a policy thing, not the occasional photo-op. And I stand by that. Your insinuation that somehow my view point could only find favor in Mt Kenya is what we have come to expect from certain ''progressives''. Criticizing the PM's actions does not turn one into a Muthamaki/Kimeendero sycophant. I can point to a lot of other praiseworthy stuff he has done. But I see a lot of room for improvement and am not afraid to make the call. In fact you are the sycophant as far as am concerned (the hear no evil, speak no evil dyed-in-the-wool stuck-in-the-mud apologist). The Rt Hon Prime Minister has a tract record of paying homage to our s/heroes. It seems like you have selective amnesia. he has visited numerous of them both when alive and when being buried like the late Gathoga Kihara (Peter Young), Maina wa Kinyatti, to name but a few. The Rt Hon Prime Minister has always called for their recongnition, only to be thwarted by the home guard kimeendeero and his mafiya ilk who dont want to give honor to those patriots including Kimathi etc. Who has been in power the last 50yrs? Why have they not honored their own?
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Post by makokha on Jun 24, 2011 11:15:55 GMT 3
One of Africa's greatest Daughter in the struggle for a free Africa. Wishing Her a quick recovery and hopefully a return to what She did best in politic
I'm smiling when I read this thread, remembering our meetings in Dar together with Bwoga, Ambasa, Late Ayieko, Mbijiwe student, Orengo and all other Kenyan patriots during Moi's terror reign.
The Struggle continues and its nearing....
Ongalo Makokha
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Post by mzalendo on Jun 24, 2011 15:59:14 GMT 3
Finally and most importantly, Kenya is still an aid dependent economy. JukwaaAllow me to introduce the term fungible or fungibility to Jukwaa (please Google if you must). I speak as someone who has worked with the UK DFID at some senior level . Please note that you did not hear this from me . All it means in simple layman terms is substitutable or substitutability. Here is a case in point. The Government of Kenya budgets for over 490 billion for free education in Kenya based on expected tax revenue that you and me pay. The UK government gives 7 billion (a drop in the ocean) as a gesture of being a “friend” to Kenya. Out of the 490 billion, the government can fudge or purge 7 billion of the UK money and use part of our 490 billion tax money to account for the 7 billion of the UK money. The 7 billion would disappear and end up in Prof. Ongeri’s pocket for example. No one would notice if this small amount of 7 billion disappears. It shall be accounted for anyways. UK does not demand original receipts or supporting documents. However the UK relies on "smart” audit trail and a few “shortchanged” Kenyans. Now this will explain why the government of the UK is asking for its "meager 7b money" back. This phenomenon happens across all government ministries. The government will accept this “ surplus” money to line pockets of influential Politian’s in " utmost" good faith ( on behalf of the people of the Republic) . The various line ministries using invoices and receipts from “ cowboy contractors and suppliers” will account for donor money and what you call aid money. Tax payers like you and me will foot the actual bill. This is how the deficit of fraud in the FPE was reduced from over 7 billion to 4.2 billion using " receipti fake"Kenya is not aid dependent. That is what the government wants you to believe. Donor and “aiders” only contribute about 5% of our budget.To say that Kenya is aid dependant is misleading. The donor community contributes and equivalent of about 5% of GDP. We, Kenya, loose over 40% of GDP in corrupt and fraudulent deals excluding Government waste like the Turkwell gorge “white elephant projects”. I hope we are together. Commes seems like you have posted on the wrong thread.
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 25, 2011 15:35:34 GMT 3
Finally and most importantly, Kenya is still an aid dependent economy. Kenya is not aid dependent. That is what the government wants you to believe. Donor and “aiders” only contribute about 5% of our budget.To say that Kenya is aid dependant is misleading. The donor community contributes and equivalent of about 5% of GDP. We, Kenya, loose over 40% of GDP in corrupt and fraudulent deals excluding Government waste like the Turkwell gorge “white elephant projects”. I hope we are together. Commes, I am reluctant to be with you on this one. Aid dependence has gotten a bit more sophisticated than the usual downright 'bribery' peanuts dished out by the usual suspects, which Dambisa Moyo so forks around her Oxford tongue. The Kenyan government is so credit unworthy that, if she were to freely source for funds on the international market on the strenghth of her ability to repay in time, she would get null on her request, or, relying on obscure brokers, the conditions and interest rates would be sharky. So in the emergence of China for instance, with a supply of excess dollars, Chinese companies [ Over 300 engineering chinese companies are operating in Africa now on a scale unprecedented even by the dawn of European colonialism] are ensured of payment by their home government! So China enters bilateral agreements with our Governments to this effect. This is aid dependency. All those Chinese companies doing the Airport bypass in Nairobi, the Thika Highway, The Rang'ala Misori in Siaya Bondo, The North-Eastern gateway, are not relying on Uhuru Kenyatta to pay them! They are guaranteed pay by their Chinese government. Same thing when Sterling of Italy was building Kisumu-Busia she was being paid direct by the then EEC [now EU]. No international CEO bothers with an african minister of finance past the role of a local gangster. Commes, these arrangements I qualify as dependency! To my knowledge, an earlier agreement by the club of Rome on request by the Americans in mid 80s, to stablise the Kenyan shilling within a defined fluctuation margin to the dollar, is still in effect. And maybe speculators have decided the EU is too weak to continue this [ too pre-ocupied with her sick children like Greece Ireland and Portugal], and that is why [Kenyan] banks are speculating on the shilling and it is falling now. You remember when the english pound was overvalued under Thatcher and chancellor Lamont, and they refused to join the corrective european exchange mechanism, speculators like George Soros made a killing forcing the pound to reflect the real value of the UK economy! A study on Barclays Bank Kenya reveals an amazing independence! They held their reserves in England and did not even bother to read notas from the Kenyan central Bank and ministry of finance!
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