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Post by nereah on Nov 14, 2011 14:56:52 GMT 3
according to state house website,mzee mwai kibaki, c.g.h,e.g.h, mp for othaya and kenya's third president was born on nov.15th 1931 at gatuyaini village in othaya. this therefore means that our president will be 80 tomorrow.he has passed the biblical three scores one ten an achievement that not many of us who were born when he was half that age are sure of. the purpose of this thread is two fold: .first to celebrate the life of a london trained economist who abandoned his professional career to serve his motherland. second is to invite jukwaa to critically interrogate his presidency,assess his statesmanship and examine his politics in a score of 1 to 10. in interrogating the public life of kenya's wartime president and especially his two presidencies (kibaki I & kibaki II) i am all ears on the verdict over the often hushed debate as to whether politically speaking he is an historical accident or the essential fix that kenya needed for take off to the middle income economy. in doing so,we may want to reflect on why historians,chroniclers and latter day scribes have mishandled kibaki or is it vice versa? is it a conspiracy that there is no book ( serious attempt to capture the public life and therefore politics,entrepreneurship and leadership) of kanu's founding chief executive officer,finance minister,v-p,official leader of opposition,president and the only mp othaya peope have had all this year. curiously kibaki has never had any other gainful employment since he quit teaching at makerere at the behest of jaramogi and his late bosom friend,tom mboya.he has served under four regimes(colonial,kenyatta,moi and his)thus an institutional memory. it is kind of mind boggling that kibaki who shares a birthday with chinua achebe has never found it fit to document his experience and story in a book when his rikas like njenga karume have. i have reliably established that his co-principal, prime minister raila amollo odinga,e.g.h,mp,is releasing his second book in a few weeks time and i would have wished that kibaki does the same. nereah's scorecard on kibakias a: politician: 7 statesman:5 MP: 4 president:4.6
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Post by destiny on Nov 14, 2011 16:47:46 GMT 3
This is my view which I'm entitled.
Kibaki AKA- Mr Who cares!- has failed miserably in his leadership over the last nine years. He squandered all the goodwill that majority of Kenyan voters had given him in 2002 at a time Kenyans were voted as the most optimistic people on the planet. Moi may be long gone, but Moism and his orphans are much alive calling the shots. Remember when people arrested corrupt cops on the streets?
This is the man we expected so much from only for him to disappoint and deliver too little too late. He has been a legendary fence sitter, never wanting to be seen to make any crucial decision firmly and equivocally.
No one understands the thinking of Mr Who Cares and he never seems to have firm friends since he keeps using and dumping them like hot potatoes from Karua, Matere Keririri, Murungaru, Stanley Murage among many others who helped him get power.
His silence on very important national issues have been interpreted to mean arrogance and rightly so. Remember when Kenya was burning after the 2007 elections and the man was nowhere to be seen, just rumours flying about his whereabouts, until when it was too late and hundreds had been killed? That's when he suddenly popped on our screen and delivered a dull speech and with that- more bloodshed continued as he went back into hiding.
Kibaki's legacy has been stained by blood of thousands of innocent Kenyans who have perished under his watch. Thousands of jobless youths were rounded up by a gang called Kwekwe, labelled Mungiki and executed- read Prof Alston report and weep.
Over a thousand were killed, raped maimed and displaced under his watch after the disputed 2007 elections. My friend Oscar King'ara and his colleague Paul Oulu were executed by cops. To date as you already know, no one has been convicted for ANY of these callous murders.
It was under Kibaki's watch that we first learnt about untouchable drug dealers who are influential members of this society. Drugs are dangerous for they have wiped out thousands of youths from Coast to Nyanza and yet those given the powers seem to be looking away. By commission or omission, they are culpable. What has Kibaki done to stem the flow of cocaine in our country?
Then corruption literally took a new meaning, so many scandals yet not a single high profile conviction! From the early days of Kibaki's reign, he inherited the ghost of Mobitelea up to today when we have Kazi Kwa Vijana scandal and a myriad of other scams all over the place. We don't know his thinking on all these because he is always holed up in state house never saying much. He seems to relish sneaking back into power those who have been pushed out due to theft of our funds and boy aren't they a handful!
Under the Mzee, billions have been looted- he has never said a single word about it again- and if has which may have escaped my mind, it was just for public consumption to cool down the anger if only for a while, then the eating continues.
And as the Mzee exits from power, he leaves this resilient nation in a state of war where more billions will be gobbled up. If the war goes well and in a short time, it may be a big plus for him but as things look, we may be bogged there for eons. I hear there's plenty of eating going on in DOD as we speak using the war as a cover. Good for you if you work there, chances are that you will never be punished even when caught.
To finish off, I would say Kibaki was the reluctant leader who only wanted power but didn't know exactly what to do with it. For example why hasn't he released and acted on the findings of Arturs brothers who are well known international conmen and fraudsters? Kibaki basically reminds me of a bright kid who all of a sudden starts performing poorly yet everyone knows that kid can score all A's if he or she really wanted.
Of course the Mzee has done well when it comes to infrastructure development and eduction but overall, this good work has been overshadowed by a million and one blots on his CV. I would say 10 years is an awful long time and would have been enough to transform this nation. Today we still have rampant tribalism (divided nation), very high crime rate in our cities, kila mtu is on strike and our currency is one of the worst performing in the world.
In general, I will give him as 40% as a leader of this nation. Could have done better!
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Post by kamalet on Nov 14, 2011 20:14:56 GMT 3
I consider myself luck. I have personally met each and every president Kenya has had since independence and if the good Lord keeps me longer, I am hoping that I shall meet the 4th president of Kenya once elected in 2012. In the unlikely event it turns out that Raila will be president, I can also say I will have met him as PM!
I can claim at least 4 grown up years under Kenyatta, all 24 years of Moi and now going into 10 under Kibaki. With all that, I know who I think has been the best president so far as that is the only way you can score him....against previous Presidents!
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jeff
Full Member
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Post by jeff on Nov 14, 2011 21:17:05 GMT 3
nereah,
Kibaki started quite well, even considering that he took the oath of office in a wheelchair. I give him 9/10 on his inaugural speech. That was his best moment, ever. As time went by he started to sound and act differently from what he had promised.
As we interrogate his successes and failures and therefore his scorecard, we should not fail to take cognisance of the lessons learnt and how these should guide us in electing the next batch of leaders. One factor that we cannot discount is the impact of those close to him before and after the elections in 2002 played in ensuring he was alienated from his stated principles after the elections.
Take the issue of the secret MOU between NARC and LPD/Raila for example. The failure to honour this MOU later metamorphosed into opposition to his government, the Waki draft constitution debacle and later into a political party, ODM. From then on, Kibaki never had a smooth ride on any issue. The lessons learnt during the Kibaki presidency enables us to avoid any mistakes made as we seek to elect the 4th president of Kenya.
The question we should ponder is, is a president beholden to the wishes and demands of his close associates likely to succeed in effectively taking control of the country? For i could argue that Kibaki failed not because he did not honour the secret MOU with LDP, but because he and LDP entered into a secret MOU in the first place, without involving the public. Remember that the details of the secret MOU started trickling out immediately Kibaki announced his cabinet. Apparently, Kibaki had promised the position of Prime Minister to Raila, even though this arrangement was unconstitutional (although not my point). But because Kibaki desperately wanted to be president, he went ahead and endorsed it. This was the beginning of his failure.
Then there was the need for him to reward his close DP clique and other associates, including those who contributed to his medical bills. These effectively became his close confidantes at State House and it is widely believed that they were the real power behind the presidency. They also contributed to alienating Kibaki from the other leaders and the country as a whole.
The lesson to learn here as we go for the next elections is that any leader who is not self-made is unlikely to be effective. One of the qualities we should look for is a leader who is independent-minded, able to steer their own agenda without undue influence from close associates. He/she should also avoid being surrounded by sycophants, and people who would place undue demands on him/her for favours after he/she gets to the presidency. Such people are surely likely to alienate him/her from other Kenyans, as they (associates) seek to steer their personal agenda as opposed to the country's agenda.
That is why i am against this thing called pre-election alliances, like happened in 2002 and what is now being pushed by PNU. The public is not privy to the boardroom secret agreements between the parties. More often than not such arrangements are likely to benefit only the selfish interests of the parties to the secret MOUs at the expense of the rest of us.
The other issue is that we as voters should choose our leaders based on the ideas that they articulate to us. If leaders belong to the same ideology, then surely they should join forces and become one party and stop trading as different outfits. We should be able to clearly delineate the ideology of ODM, against that of PNU, ODMK, UDM, NARCK, etc. In other words, each presidential candidate should campaign on his own to sell his/her party manifesto so that we can compare and contrast, then make an informed choice.
Thus according to me, it is difficult to score Kibaki on his own, as i argue that he has not been 'in charge' since the word go, because of the reasons i have given. But to be fair on him, allow me to give him a score 50/50 on all aspects.
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Post by akinyi2005 on Nov 14, 2011 22:35:05 GMT 3
politician: 5 statesman:3 MP: 6 president:2 unlike kamale who thinks kibaki ought to be compared with previous presidents, i choose to set the bar a little higher hence my not so generous ratings above .
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Post by njugunajohn on Nov 15, 2011 8:54:06 GMT 3
according to state house website,mzee mwai kibaki, c.g.h,e.g.h, mp for othaya and kenya's third president was born on nov.15th 1931 at gatuyaini village in othaya. this therefore means that our president will be 80 tomorrow.he has passed the biblical three scores one ten an achievement that not many of us who were born when he was half that age are sure of. the purpose of this thread is two fold: .first to celebrate the life of a london trained economist who abandoned his professional career to serve his motherland. second is to invite jukwaa to critically interrogate his presidency,assess his statesmanship and examine his politics in a score of 1 to 10. in interrogating the public life of kenya's wartime president and especially his two presidencies (kibaki I & kibaki II) i am all ears on the verdict over the often hushed debate as to whether politically speaking he is an historical accident or the essential fix that kenya needed for take off to the middle income economy. in doing so,we may want to reflect on why historians,chroniclers and latter day scribes have mishandled kibaki or is it vice versa? is it a conspiracy that there is no book ( serious attempt to capture the public life and therefore politics,entrepreneurship and leadership) of kanu's founding chief executive officer,finance minister,v-p,official leader of opposition,president and the only mp othaya peope have had all this year. curiously kibaki has never had any other gainful employment since he quit teaching at makerere at the behest of jaramogi and his late bosom friend,tom mboya.he has served under four regimes(colonial,kenyatta,moi and his)thus an institutional memory. it is kind of mind boggling that kibaki who shares a birthday with chinua achebe has never found it fit to document his experience and story in a book when his rikas like njenga karume have. i have reliably established that his co-principal, prime minister raila amollo odinga,e.g.h,mp,is releasing his second book in a few weeks time and i would have wished that kibaki does the same. nereah's scorecard on kibakias a: politician: 7 statesman:5 MP: 4 president:4.6 Happy Birthday Dear President Kibaki. May Almighty God add to you many more years that you may live to be 120 years old. Numbers 6:24-26(NIV) 24 The LORD bless you and keep you; 25 the LORD make his face shine on you and be gracious to you; 26 the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace.
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Post by destiny on Nov 15, 2011 10:47:20 GMT 3
@kamale:
We should not compare Kibaki with dictators Moi and Kenyatta but with the best leaders in Africa. For heaven's sake Moi is just an ex-primary school teacher and divorcee while Kibaki went to Makerere and London School of Economics!
I'm just going through today's paper and all I can see in the news is STRIKES by the lecturers, BOMBS falling in Somalia, petrol PRICE INCREASE by the Govt and DEMOLITIONS in Syokimau.
All that mouthful in just a single day of Kibaki's Kenya!
Bottom line: The man who ridiculed Kenyans for agitating the removal of section 2A during Moi's reign that they were "cutting down a Mugumo tree with a razor" could have done much much muchbetter....if he really wanted!!
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Post by kamalet on Nov 15, 2011 11:12:21 GMT 3
@kamale: We should not compare Kibaki with dictators Moi and Kenyatta but with the best leaders in Africa. For heaven's sake Moi is just an ex-primary school teacher and divorcee while Kibaki went to Makerere and London School of Economics! I'm just going through today's paper and all I can see in the news is STRIKES by the lecturers, BOMBS falling in Somalia, petrol PRICE INCREASE by the Govt and DEMOLITIONS in Syokimau. All that mouthful in just a single day of Kibaki's Kenya! Bottom line: The man who ridiculed Kenyans for agitating the removal of section 2A during Moi's reign that they were "cutting down a Mugumo tree with a razor" could have done much much muchbetter....if he really wanted!!I have no problem you comparing Kibaki tpo Zuma, Mugabe or Museveni. The problem of such a comparison would mean that you are comparing oranges with mangoes as the leadership circumstances in either of the countries would be different. My only reason of reflecting on previous Kenyan presidents was because you at least had one constant: Kenya! I see that the strike by lecturers or the demolitions in Syokimau or even the fuel price hikes are because of Kibaki. But if you did a bit of soul searching, are you sure of what you are saying? You can rank and match Kibaki as you wish.....he has had his successes as well as his failuresmlike any other mortal. Has he been good for Kenya - I am sure one day you will reflect on that!
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Post by destiny on Nov 15, 2011 11:54:39 GMT 3
@kamale: We should not compare Kibaki with dictators Moi and Kenyatta but with the best leaders in Africa. For heaven's sake Moi is just an ex-primary school teacher and divorcee while Kibaki went to Makerere and London School of Economics! I'm just going through today's paper and all I can see in the news is STRIKES by the lecturers, BOMBS falling in Somalia, petrol PRICE INCREASE by the Govt and DEMOLITIONS in Syokimau. All that mouthful in just a single day of Kibaki's Kenya! Bottom line: The man who ridiculed Kenyans for agitating the removal of section 2A during Moi's reign that they were "cutting down a Mugumo tree with a razor" could have done much much muchbetter....if he really wanted!!I have no problem you comparing Kibaki tpo Zuma, Mugabe or Museveni. The problem of such a comparison would mean that you are comparing oranges with mangoes as the leadership circumstances in either of the countries would be different. My only reason of reflecting on previous Kenyan presidents was because you at least had one constant: Kenya! I see that the strike by lecturers or the demolitions in Syokimau or even the fuel price hikes are because of Kibaki. But if you did a bit of soul searching, are you sure of what you are saying? You can rank and match Kibaki as you wish.....he has had his successes as well as his failuresmlike any other mortal. Has he been good for Kenya - I am sure one day you will reflect on that! Ok, let's just agree to disagree. You say he was good (God sent?)) for Kenya while I believe he (the king of impunity) was a big disaster, perhaps I had put too much hope on him. Actually all the last three presidents were a big disaster for Kenya. Perhaps that's why I'm bitter for all the squandered chances. I have this hunch Kenya could be far ahead since we have generally been a peaceful nation surrounded by war torn neighbours. I won't bore you with that story about Kenya being at par with the Asian Tigers in '63. We never seem to to learn from mistakes. We had the best chance in 2002 when Baba Jimmy took over. But where are we now? Perhaps the presidency shouldn't have crossed River Chania after all as it had been warned! Poverty levels are alarming my friend and most Kenyans continue living in abject poverty under 1 dollar a day. The Oligarchs have gotten richer- thanks mostly to milking the system without any repercussions. The likes of Nyong'o boast eating a 2k lunch in Serena which is a fortune to many who sleep hungry in our many slums. To the majority poor, it's has been quite hard for the last decade. If things remain the way they are, our primitive tribal wars will inevitably be replaced by class wars. The content middle class of Kamale and destiny may then be bolted from their comfort zone when it's too late when the neglected poor rise up for justice. That's why we must work harder and get a visionary leader in 2012. Kenya has been on the runway for too long. We must take off now if only for the sake of our children. God help us and good luck.
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Post by kamalet on Nov 15, 2011 17:37:34 GMT 3
Destiny
As we agre to disagree, I am sure with some facts it becomes easier to narrow the differences...ama?
Where were in July 1993?
That would be a nice starting point!
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Post by destiny on Nov 15, 2011 18:48:01 GMT 3
I was some student somewhere in the Rift Valley Bwana Kamale. Now go on and preach to me how sweet things are! FYI info even my beloved old lady thinks mambo ni bad!
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Post by nereah on Nov 15, 2011 20:35:18 GMT 3
Happy Birthday Dear President Kibaki. May Almighty God add to you many more years that you may live to be 120 years old. Numbers 6:24-26(NIV) 24 The LORD bless you and keep you; 25 the LORD make his face shine on you and be gracious to you; 26 the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace. njugunajohn,i see you only celebrate mzee kibaki's life but i would be glad to hear from you too on how kibaki the president & politician should be judged.
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Post by tnk on Nov 15, 2011 20:48:46 GMT 3
politician: 10.0 MP: 10.0 Statesman: 0.1 President: 0.3
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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 15, 2011 21:09:38 GMT 3
I have said this before and I will say it again. There is a special place in hell set for Kibaki. He will spend a very long time there before he gets parole. This is the man who came to power in a wave of hope and optimism in the country. Kenya was indeed the most optimistic country in the world in January 2003.
Then what does Kibaki do with this great promise? He hands the country over to a bunch of tribal chauvinists in State House and works with them to destroy every hope Kenyans had after throwing out Moi and his Uhuru project. Kibaki abandons his promise of a new constitution in 100 days. Kibaki drags the country through a nightmare trying to impose his own constitution on Kenyans and ends up with a humiliating defeat in 2005.
Then Kibaki goes ahead to impose his cronies in the ECK and stages the most brazen electoral robbery we have seen anywhere in the globe. Kenyans then reject Kibaki's violent robbery and the country goes up in smoke. All that just for Kibaki to keep power! This man was ready and willing to lose the country and keep power and he almost did. The result: 1,500 Kenyans dead, 650,000 Kenyans forced from their homes and their lives ruined.
Even after the thief is caught he still grudgingly tries his tricks and "better thief syndrome" with Kenyans all through NARA. No Kenya has survived as a country despite Kibaki's reckless power grab. Everything that has been achieved including the new constitution is because Kenyans went to battle with Kibaki and his chauvinists.
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Post by tnk on Nov 15, 2011 21:31:54 GMT 3
I have said this before and I will say it again. There is a special place in hell set for Kibaki. He will spend a very long time there before he gets parole. This is the man who came to power in a wave of hope and optimism in the country. Kenya was indeed the most optimistic country in the world in January 2003. Then what does Kibaki do with this great promise? He hands the country over to a bunch of tribal chauvinists in State House and works with them to destroy every hope Kenyans had after throwing out Moi and his Uhuru project. Kibaki abandons his promise of a new constitution in 100 days. Kibaki drags the country through a nightmare trying to impose his own constitution on Kenyans and ends up with a humiliating defeat in 2005. Then Kibaki goes ahead to impose his cronies in the ECK and stages the most brazen electoral robbery we have seen anywhere in the globe. Kenyans then reject Kibaki's violent robbery and the country goes up in smoke. All that just for Kibaki to keep power! This man was ready and willing to lose the country and keep power and he almost did. The result: 1,500 Kenyans dead, 650,000 Kenyans forced from their homes and their lives ruined. Even after the thief is caught he still grudgingly tries his tricks and "better thief syndrome" with Kenyans all through NARA. No Kenya has survived as a country despite Kibaki's reckless power grab. Everything that has been achieved including the new constitution is because Kenyans went to battle with Kibaki and his chauvinists. hehehe adongo, i didn't realize nereah needed justification for the "grading" exercise, but you have clearly done that for my grading scheme in fact am revising the grade president: 0.3 president: 0.2 ;D
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Post by justfacts on Nov 15, 2011 22:14:36 GMT 3
Here is what comes to mind when I think of Kibaki
As a person Amekaliwa (How many people has Lucy slapped or sacked?) Inept (thanks to the first families antics) Abusive (starting from his driver going out)
As a president Detached (or hands off according to Uhuru) Indolent (To all manner of corruption and trafficking) Dissapointing (Currency fluctuations, security, basic commodity prices) Deceitful (MOU,IDP, elections, Constitution) Elitist (Kuregarega is not a choice to many unemployed youth)
And now my ratings: as a: politician : 7 (He has survived from Kenyatta's era) statesman : 3 (Weak on border integrity, ICC, PEV, Mungikis and such) MP : --- Not quaified to comment President : 3 ( IDP ,food security, food prices, strikes, corruption)
Happy birthday and good riddance…..(soon)
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Post by b6k on Nov 15, 2011 22:21:07 GMT 3
I have said this before and I will say it again. There is a special place in hell set for Kibaki. He will spend a very long time there before he gets parole. This is the man who came to power in a wave of hope and optimism in the country. Kenya was indeed the most optimistic country in the world in January 2003. Then what does Kibaki do with this great promise? He hands the country over to a bunch of tribal chauvinists in State House and works with them to destroy every hope Kenyans had after throwing out Moi and his Uhuru project. Kibaki abandons his promise of a new constitution in 100 days. Kibaki drags the country through a nightmare trying to impose his own constitution on Kenyans and ends up with a humiliating defeat in 2005. Then Kibaki goes ahead to impose his cronies in the ECK and stages the most brazen electoral robbery we have seen anywhere in the globe. Kenyans then reject Kibaki's violent robbery and the country goes up in smoke. All that just for Kibaki to keep power! This man was ready and willing to lose the country and keep power and he almost did. The result: 1,500 Kenyans dead, 650,000 Kenyans forced from their homes and their lives ruined. Even after the thief is caught he still grudgingly tries his tricks and "better thief syndrome" with Kenyans all through NARA. No Kenya has survived as a country despite Kibaki's reckless power grab. Everything that has been achieved including the new constitution is because Kenyans went to battle with Kibaki and his chauvinists. hehehe adongo, i didn't realize nereah needed justification for the "grading" exercise, but you have clearly done that for my grading scheme in fact am revising the grade president: 0.3 president: 0.2 ;D TNK, I think you missed a category: Economist: -8.0 Kibaki is for Kenya what Obama has been for America. A major disappointment after so much hope & goodwill was vested in him by the masses. At least the Americans got to hear good speeches though ;D
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Post by tnk on Nov 15, 2011 22:24:35 GMT 3
TNK, I think you missed a category: Economist: -8.0 Kibaki is for Kenya what Obama has been for America. A major disappointment after so much hope & goodwill was vested in him by the masses. At least the Americans got to hear good speeches though ;D i think nereah couldn't bring herself to list that one - so she threw us off track, but i see that you are quite generous with your grade ;D
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Post by kamalet on Nov 15, 2011 22:25:01 GMT 3
I was some student somewhere in the Rift Valley Bwana Kamale. Now go on and preach to me how sweet things are! FYI info even my beloved old lady thinks mambo ni bad! Destiny If you think it is bad now, then you should have lived at the same period I quoted. I lived it on a salary, so I can tell you! In February 1993 and just coming out of the first multi-party politics, the US dollar exchanged at 35 shillings. In November of the same year, the dollar was exchanging at Kshs. 69. So when we whine about the shilling losing value from 80 to 107 in 2 months, then you know how bad it was then! Whilst we are complaining about interest rates by CBK going to 16.5, perhaps you should know the same interest in 1993 was 71%. So yes it is bad if the relative period you are looking at is 2005! My point is that it has been worse than you are thinking it is today. Finally a statistic that you might be interested in when grading Kibaki....GDP in 2002 = US$12.5 Billion against 2010 = US$29 billion. So has Kibaki done well...if you ask me on the economic front (and lifting the lives of Kenyans) he has done exceptionally well! As a politician, for a country that could only relate to the bad politics of Moi...Kibaki has been a miserable failure!
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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 15, 2011 22:59:15 GMT 3
I was some student somewhere in the Rift Valley Bwana Kamale. Now go on and preach to me how sweet things are! FYI info even my beloved old lady thinks mambo ni bad! Destiny If you think it is bad now, then you should have lived at the same period I quoted. I lived it on a salary, so I can tell you! In February 1993 and just coming out of the first multi-party politics, the US dollar exchanged at 35 shillings. In November of the same year, the dollar was exchanging at Kshs. 69. So when we whine about the shilling losing value from 80 to 107 in 2 months, then you know how bad it was then! Whilst we are complaining about interest rates by CBK going to 16.5, perhaps you should know the same interest in 1993 was 71%. So yes it is bad if the relative period you are looking at is 2005! My point is that it has been worse than you are thinking it is today. Finally a statistic that you might be interested in when grading Kibaki....GDP in 2002 = US$12.5 Billion against 2010 = US$29 billion. So has Kibaki done well...if you ask me on the economic front (and lifting the lives of Kenyans) he has done exceptionally well! As a politician, for a country that could only relate to the bad politics of Moi...Kibaki has been a miserable failure! Kamale,I think using per capita as opposed to GDP is a better measurement for economic growth and even that is useless in a country where the top 1% probably controls 80% or more of the economy. The one statistics you did not mention is the stubborn thing of people living in $ 1.00 a day in 2012. That apparently could be a huge chunk of the population. I will check the figures. Then we have had the collapse of a huge section of the middle class even as the economy was supposedly growing at 7%. That means too few people are hogging all the money. The current lending rate of 20-31% (Equity is at 25 for the lowest) is just bad news. If people cannot access capital there goes the investments. Politicially of course we know Kibaki is by far the worst. Moi lost elections and did not try anything stupid. Kibaki was ready to destroy the country completely for power. That is unforgivable and that his legacy!
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Post by kamalet on Nov 15, 2011 23:33:02 GMT 3
Destiny If you think it is bad now, then you should have lived at the same period I quoted. I lived it on a salary, so I can tell you! In February 1993 and just coming out of the first multi-party politics, the US dollar exchanged at 35 shillings. In November of the same year, the dollar was exchanging at Kshs. 69. So when we whine about the shilling losing value from 80 to 107 in 2 months, then you know how bad it was then! Whilst we are complaining about interest rates by CBK going to 16.5, perhaps you should know the same interest in 1993 was 71%. So yes it is bad if the relative period you are looking at is 2005! My point is that it has been worse than you are thinking it is today. Finally a statistic that you might be interested in when grading Kibaki....GDP in 2002 = US$12.5 Billion against 2010 = US$29 billion. So has Kibaki done well...if you ask me on the economic front (and lifting the lives of Kenyans) he has done exceptionally well! As a politician, for a country that could only relate to the bad politics of Moi...Kibaki has been a miserable failure! Kamale,I think using per capita as opposed to GDP is a better measurement for economic growth and even that is useless in a country where the top 1% probably controls 80% or more of the economy. The one statistics you did not mention is the stubborn thing of people living in $ 1.00 a day in 2012. That apparently could be a huge chunk of the population. I will check the figures. Then we have had the collapse of a huge section of the middle class even as the economy was supposedly growing at 7%. That means too few people are hogging all the money. The current lending rate of 20-31% (Equity is at 25 for the lowest) is just bad news. If people cannot access capital there goes the investments. Politicially of course we know Kibaki is by far the worst. Moi lost elections and did not try anything stupid. Kibaki was ready to destroy the country completely for power. That is unforgivable and that his legacy! Adongo The GDP per capita at current prices in 2002 was Kshs 27,000 whilst in 2010 this was Kshs. 73,000 with the IMF forcast for 2016 being Kshs.118,000! In 1993 the GDP per capita was a paltry Kshs. 19,000 so yes there has been a great change in positive fortunes for Kenyans. As I said earlier the interest rates are no higher than they have been. However for many borrowers who started on lower rates, the new rates will lead to very many defaulters. After initial increases in base rates, most banks have announced even higher charges effective today of base rates of over 25%. You can imagine that in my case where my mortgage is pegged at 2% above base rate what my rate will be from 16.5% which I have been paying for the last 4 years and which now would shoot to up to 27%!! Nevermind the bank now calling me to re-mortgage my house and get a favourable 5 year fixed rate loan at 11.9%! At the moment, all I can think of is getting out of the mortgage within the next 4 weeks and use the cash I save to buy government stocks at the same rate I was paying my mortgage! I suspect that the parliament will be driven to reign in the banks by either reintroducing interest rate controls (bad news!) or a cap between savings and lending rates (good news) as this will help get banks back into banking as opposed to trading as they do today!
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 15, 2011 23:52:19 GMT 3
On the ratings of Kibaki, I and danielwaweru were engaged in fierce banter before ruthless Oloo yanked the unfortunate man's tongue off his throat, drying him up on Jukwaa. I am still wondering whether to repeat my harsh judgement. Some of you please look at his record when he was finance minister, and even earlier on. When it comes to underperfomance, I have always picked Saitoti [professor at math who couldn't run finance]. But consedering the long track of Kibaki... decades of incompetence yet a don at economics, I could rate him above Saitoti on the negative scale!
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Post by palaver on Nov 15, 2011 23:56:05 GMT 3
President Mwai Kibaki is depicted as a “stubborn old man” who “seemed to go into and out of focus” during power-sharing negotiations. These are not my words but those of Condoleeza Rice's memoir describing the birthday man!
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emali
Full Member
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Post by emali on Nov 16, 2011 10:18:05 GMT 3
Kibaki has been a disappointment...ultimately he falls behind Kenyatta & Moi in the most important area of leadership...he was/is just not a leader and I shudder to think how we would be today if not for the coalition government, I don’t think even if Bifwoli Wakoli was the PORK you would have seen a couple of Russian thugs being made Assistant commissioners of police .
Economically he has done ‘well’ given that he is an economist but not well enough he did however preside over a new constitution ...he was given the Keys and a blank check & he failed miserably...his biggest failure was that everyone seemed to believe he would make us better but the only thing he did was reinforce stereotypes & make some very rich while most remained poorer...
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Post by roughrider on Nov 16, 2011 10:18:19 GMT 3
President Mwai Kibaki is depicted as a “stubborn old man” who “seemed to go into and out of focus” during power-sharing negotiations. These are not my words but those of Condoleeza Rice's memoir describing the birthday man! Palaver - an illuminating article it was. And who can argue with the objectivity of Ms Condoleeza Rice? www.nation.co.ke/Features/DN2/-/957860/1273292/-/ahao4b/-/index.htmlAs usual the Nation title is wrong and biased. Condoleeza is clear that politicians had Kibaki on tenterhooks, not Raila. Here is an intriguing snippet: Ms Rice unfavourably contrasts President Kibaki with Prime Minister Raila Odinga, where she writes that Mr Odinga “had many of the characteristics that Kibaki did not (youth, charisma and energy).”In her talks with Mr Kibaki in February 2008, the president “just kept repeating that he’d won the election,” Condi recalls, adding that he was “losing his train of thought several times.” “It was then that I realised,” she continues, “that his ‘people’ might be more of a problem than he.
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