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Post by Omwenga on Feb 17, 2012 0:19:31 GMT 3
According to a statement issued by the Prime Minister's office, Ugandan President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni is set to arrive in Kenya on Saturday as a guest of Prime Minister Raila Odinga.
Museveni will land in the lakeside town of Kisumu where he is expected to launch the Great lakes University Education Trust fund.
President Museveni is scheduled to arrive at the Great Lakes University of Kisumu at 10 am and will be received by the PM before proceeding to lay the Foundation Stone for the university’s Library.
The PM has consequently appealed to the residents of the region to turn out in large numbers and accord President Museveni a warm welcome to ensure the occasion is success.
This is a significant development because it goes to publicly show the nature and depth of the relationship between the two leaders.
It's things like these that separate Raila from the rest of those seeking the presidency, namely, his regional and global connections, experience and relationships that are going to be critical as we rebuild our country, should Kenyans give Raila the nod again.
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Post by patriotism101 on Feb 17, 2012 6:10:17 GMT 3
According to a statement issued by the Prime Minister's office, Ugandan President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni is set to arrive in Kenya on Saturday as a guest of Prime Minister Raila Odinga. Museveni will land in the lakeside town of Kisumu where he is expected to launch the Great lakes University Education Trust fund. President Museveni is scheduled to arrive at the Great Lakes University of Kisumu at 10 am and will be received by the PM before proceeding to lay the Foundation Stone for the university’s Library. The PM has consequently appealed to the residents of the region to turn out in large numbers and accord President Museveni a warm welcome to ensure the occasion is success. This is a significant development because it goes to publicly show the nature and depth of the relationship between the two leaders. It's things like these that separate Raila from the rest of those seeking the presidency, namely, his regional and global connections, experience and relationships that are going to be critical as we rebuild our country, should Kenyans give Raila the nod again. I have it from very reliable sources that M7 is going to hand over Migingo! Now this is ill advised- no Kenyan leader should beg M7 for Migingo- I hope he will be told in his face that migingo is KE. That story of honorary degrees is stupid. M7 can come KSM all he wants but he should know he is not welcome.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 17, 2012 20:51:22 GMT 3
According to a statement issued by the Prime Minister's office, Ugandan President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni is set to arrive in Kenya on Saturday as a guest of Prime Minister Raila Odinga. Museveni will land in the lakeside town of Kisumu where he is expected to launch the Great lakes University Education Trust fund. President Museveni is scheduled to arrive at the Great Lakes University of Kisumu at 10 am and will be received by the PM before proceeding to lay the Foundation Stone for the university’s Library. The PM has consequently appealed to the residents of the region to turn out in large numbers and accord President Museveni a warm welcome to ensure the occasion is success. This is a significant development because it goes to publicly show the nature and depth of the relationship between the two leaders. It's things like these that separate Raila from the rest of those seeking the presidency, namely, his regional and global connections, experience and relationships that are going to be critical as we rebuild our country, should Kenyans give Raila the nod again. omwenga na raila, vichwa vyenu vimepiga knock! Museveni is the president of a foreign country which millitarily is occupying a piece of Kenyan territory. That territory is majorly Luo, and the Ugandans are treating the Luos there in a fashion far from the spirit of sisterhood and brotherhood and good neighbourliness. And that issue is not yet resolved. M7 being intransigent. Now reality is Uganda is of deep economic interest to Kenya. They pay freight charges en-masse that people like UK and Raila amass and steal by way of wreckless salaries. There is therefore practical need to maintain a working economic relationship with Uganda, in mutual national interest. That is pragmatism. But it does not mean welcoming with warmth, the dictator thief and annexer of our own territory! Living in the USA, omwenga, this may be instructive. You are aware of the delicate balance between economic needs and excommunications of foreign heads of state. To maintain the UN headquarters in New York, a money spinner, the USA had to agree that any dictator or whatever, however hostile to the USA, will get his Visa, and be left alone to do his adress at the UN. And even sign major financial contracts on areas not covered by sanctions if any. But the people do not have to welcome them with warm heart. So let M7 come to Kenya yes, but to ask that he be WARMLY WELCOMED, is a pathetic useless minded Raila. An obnoxious political weirdo in degenerative pantomime. When Museveni came to Nairobi for the promulgation, the streets welcomed him with HUYO HUYO! UUUWI, MIGINGO DHI! And even non-Luos joined. I expect no less in Kisumu, even if the rumours say he has prepared the way: oolo pesa e loo mondo luo obodhi.. [M7 has taken the precaution to pour money on the ground for Luos to fall to, like quacking hens upon spilt millet!]
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Post by okolowaka on Feb 18, 2012 19:08:58 GMT 3
....Jakaswanga rarely sees anything good or positive from Kisumu, Raila, ODM, Luo's, Nyanza Province... I do not understand why but it is your right to love or hate what or who or what you like...
One thing that we all see in Raila is that his style of politics is one in which he does not have permanent enemies because in one way or another we are in some form of parasitic or symbiotic relationship at any given time...we take advantage of our strengths or strategies to get the better of our competitors...or if we cant beat them, we join them....
M7 has grabbed Migingo for his own strategy or reason; the important thing is to understand why Kenya government seems to tolerate this land grab....? Raila is not the commander-in-chief of the KDF and his influence is limited to political strategy when it comes to dealing with other heads of state, he cannot order KDF to take back Migingo.
Uganda is currently Kenya's biggest trade partner and the soon-to-be oil producer and exporter may become the most important and influential country in EA soon. Raila understands this well and so he must play his cards well... Who knew M7 would come and do a harambee in Kisumu so soon after the "unkind" words he used to describe Luo's....? It is a matter of strategy; words will not hurt Raila, he has heard it all... In the next so many years after the oil starts flowing, we will all know how important it is to have a friend with a lot of oil to sell cheaply and a lot of money to buy our goods...
In other matters that should concern the Commander-In-Chief of the KDF, M7 recently acquired 6 brand new Russian made SU-30MK Fighter jets...our very old F-5 fleet cannot match the technology nor firepower that the Russian made machines have.... This makes M7 a very powerful and rich bully in the hood...better to make friends with him now while we upgrade our own arsenal... ;D
Is Kibaki listening...?
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 18, 2012 20:24:04 GMT 3
According to a statement issued by the Prime Minister's office, Ugandan President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni is set to arrive in Kenya on Saturday as a guest of Prime Minister Raila Odinga. Museveni will land in the lakeside town of Kisumu where he is expected to launch the Great lakes University Education Trust fund. President Museveni is scheduled to arrive at the Great Lakes University of Kisumu at 10 am and will be received by the PM before proceeding to lay the Foundation Stone for the university’s Library. The PM has consequently appealed to the residents of the region to turn out in large numbers and accord President Museveni a warm welcome to ensure the occasion is success. This is a significant development because it goes to publicly show the nature and depth of the relationship between the two leaders. It's things like these that separate Raila from the rest of those seeking the presidency, namely, his regional and global connections, experience and relationships that are going to be critical as we rebuild our country, should Kenyans give Raila the nod again. omwenga na raila, vichwa vyenu vimepiga knock! Museveni is the president of a foreign country which millitarily is occupying a piece of Kenyan territory. That territory is majorly Luo, and the Ugandans are treating the Luos there in a fashion far from the spirit of sisterhood and brotherhood and good neighbourliness. And that issue is not yet resolved. M7 being intransigent. Now reality is Uganda is of deep economic interest to Kenya. They pay freight charges en-masse that people like UK and Raila amass and steal by way of wreckless salaries. There is therefore practical need to maintain a working economic relationship with Uganda, in mutual national interest. That is pragmatism. But it does not mean welcoming with warmth, the dictator thief and annexer of our own territory! Living in the USA, omwenga, this may be instructive. You are aware of the delicate balance between economic needs and excommunications of foreign heads of state. To maintain the UN headquarters in New York, a money spinner, the USA had to agree that any dictator or whatever, however hostile to the USA, will get his Visa, and be left alone to do his adress at the UN. And even sign major financial contracts on areas not covered by sanctions if any. But the people do not have to welcome them with warm heart. So let M7 come to Kenya yes, but to ask that he be WARMLY WELCOMED, is a pathetic useless minded Raila. An obnoxious political weirdo in degenerative pantomime. When Museveni came to Nairobi for the promulgation, the streets welcomed him with HUYO HUYO! UUUWI, MIGINGO DHI! And even non-Luos joined. I expect no less in Kisumu, even if the rumours say he has prepared the way: oolo pesa e loo mondo luo obodhi.. [M7 has taken the precaution to pour money on the ground for Luos to fall to, like quacking hens upon spilt millet!] Jakaswanga,Vichwa haviwezi piga knock! If you meant to say our brains have knocked in the sense they have stopped working, neither would be able to do anything, let alone think and type as yours truly is therefore both your claim and analogy is off--or wrong, to be more precise. Regarding the US and visas, please get the facts straight: US has no say as to who gets visas to come to New York for UN business; UN complex is a country of its own within the US and people the US deems unwelcome such as Fidel Castro, even though frail, will be mobbed on any streets by many admirers and supporters. I have read Okolowaka's response to you regarding Migingo and relations with Uganda in general and don't see much to add to it other than note what I have blogged previously that yours truly was in Uganda during one of the eruptions of the Migingo crisis and happened to be meeting with that country's minister for foreign affairs on a business matter and the issue came up casually whereupon he left with the impression he still maintains about what the issue is really all about. Let's say he believes the issue will be permanently and amicably resolved after the new government is sworn in Kenya and that's assuming all other pieces fall in place.
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 18, 2012 20:25:05 GMT 3
....Jakaswanga rarely sees anything good or positive from Kisumu, Raila, ODM, Luo's, Nyanza Province... I do not understand why but it is your right to love or hate what or who or what you like... One thing that we all see in Raila is that his style of politics is one in which he does not have permanent enemies because in one way or another we are in some form of parasitic or symbiotic relationship at any given time...we take advantage of our strengths or strategies to get the better of our competitors...or if we cant beat them, we join them.... M7 has grabbed Migingo for his own strategy or reason; the important thing is to understand why Kenya government seems to tolerate this land grab....? Raila is not the commander-in-chief of the KDF and his influence is limited to political strategy when it comes to dealing with other heads of state, he cannot order KDF to take back Migingo. Uganda is currently Kenya's biggest trade partner and the soon-to-be oil producer and exporter may become the most important and influential country in EA soon. Raila understands this well and so he must play his cards well... Who knew M7 would come and do a harambee in Kisumu so soon after the "unkind" words he used to describe Luo's....? It is a matter of strategy; words will not hurt Raila, he has heard it all... In the next so many years after the oil starts flowing, we will all know how important it is to have a friend with a lot of oil to sell cheaply and a lot of money to buy our goods... In other matters that should concern the Commander-In-Chief of the KDF, M7 recently acquired 6 brand new Russian made SU-30MK Fighter jets...our very old F-5 fleet cannot match the technology nor firepower that the Russian made machines have.... This makes M7 a very powerful and rich bully in the hood...better to make friends with him now while we upgrade our own arsenal... ;D Is Kibaki listening...? Okolowaka,Completely agree.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 18, 2012 20:38:26 GMT 3
[Regarding the US and visas, please get the facts straight: US has no say as to who gets visas to come to New York for UN business; UN complex is a country of its own within the US and people the US deems unwelcome such as Fidel Castro, even though frail, will be mobbed on any streets by many admirers and supporters. omwenga,This is what is called a construction. And one of the concessions the USA had to make, that the headquarters stay in New York. [When Nikita Kruschev, Stalin's successor, came up with a sustained attempt to relocate the UN Hqs, you will be surprise what other concessions the USA government was ready to put on the table. Do not imagine any plane can fly into american airspace without the US government giving a nod. There is a visa-regime, even if unstated. NB: Another construction, should you want to know more about these things, is the Vatican state/city. Inside Italian Rome, 'Independent' state!
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 18, 2012 20:56:18 GMT 3
....Jakaswanga rarely sees anything good or positive from Kisumu, Raila, ODM, Luo's, Nyanza Province... I do not understand why but it is your right to love or hate what or who or what you like... Okolowaka, Lets see If I can help you along with a two part (rejoinder). 1. Do you know the saying wuothi eka ine? --If you do not go past your own village, you think your mum is the best cook. Now, apart from driving lorries and olwendas across Nyanza, I ocassionally travel far and wide [like now], and see the wide tough big world outside my Nyanza cottage. A sobering if occasionaly a humbling experience. Then, when I come back [to my grass thatch after 3* hotel suites!], it takes me a week before I can refer to Russia as a hospital, having seen what a hospital can be in Tel Aviv. And then even calling Maseno a university begins to sound fake to me! [having gone as a tourist to gape at one in Malaysia!]When it rains and Ahero is cut off from Awasi and Nyalenda, and I have a flight to catch in Kisumu, am I going to sing Onyi Papa Jey praises of ODM? And even the beautiful airport, if I have flown through the one at Taipei and Hongkong, do you really expect me to say aaah, Kisumu has an airport grade one!? Wuothi, ne, then your horizons widen, and your standards up with them! Man, only when I compare her to our patchy airports in in East Congo, do I say Kisumu airport is state of the art! If I were an ignorant peasant who knows not what is for sale around, sure Raila or Ruto would fool me. But wuothi eka ine, ipar matut, ---see the light and face the truth, about how backward your home is. And then, you can go to work to build. I paraphrase Fanon for you : The native, son of a chief who is lord in his world and of many women and herds of cattle, comes to the colonial metropolis in the motherland, and is confronted with a different way of organising reality. He sees the power of that organisation and knows, if he is clever: back home things must change, and fast. Because there is another world out there, greedy, ruthless, impatient and a predator determined to stay on top! even it means wiping all my people out. This native goes back home, and the peace in his mind is destroyed for ever. That was part 1 , okolowaka.
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 18, 2012 21:23:07 GMT 3
According to a statement issued by the Prime Minister's office, Ugandan President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni is set to arrive in Kenya on Saturday as a guest of Prime Minister Raila Odinga. Museveni will land in the lakeside town of Kisumu where he is expected to launch the Great lakes University Education Trust fund. President Museveni is scheduled to arrive at the Great Lakes University of Kisumu at 10 am and will be received by the PM before proceeding to lay the Foundation Stone for the university’s Library. The PM has consequently appealed to the residents of the region to turn out in large numbers and accord President Museveni a warm welcome to ensure the occasion is success. This is a significant development because it goes to publicly show the nature and depth of the relationship between the two leaders. It's things like these that separate Raila from the rest of those seeking the presidency, namely, his regional and global connections, experience and relationships that are going to be critical as we rebuild our country, should Kenyans give Raila the nod again. Museveni welcomed in Kisumu by Raila, calls for unity in East Africa www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000052370&cid=4
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Post by okolowaka on Feb 18, 2012 22:13:14 GMT 3
So Jakaswanga,
What are you going to do to uplift your home/my home/our home? Stone M7...? Stone Kibaki...? We have tried this before and it does not work. Welcoming an important and powerful neighbor with open arms for a change may be just the beginning of the change we need....
Tell me that I may know what I must do to make my home like those "outside". What must I do to make Maseno University match UNC...? What must I do to make Kisumu Airport match RDU International...? What must I do to make our roads match the Interstate Highways that criss-cross USA... What must I do to make our schools match the NC Education system?
I have seen in the past six years that I have been "outside" in person that Dubai, Huston, Dallas, Chicago, South Bend (Indiana), San Diego, and Raleigh (NC) are way way ahead of Kisumu, so believe me Jakswanga, I know that my home is backward in many ways...this is why I celebrate and appreciate every positive step we make, however small it is.
Let us stop blaming Raila and ODM for everything that is not right in our backyard yet we all know that before Raila stepped into the scene Russia had seen worse days, our roads had seen worse days, Maseno had seen worse days, Kisumu Airport had seen worse, we in Kisumu/Nyanza know...
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 19, 2012 0:33:03 GMT 3
According to a statement issued by the Prime Minister's office, Ugandan President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni is set to arrive in Kenya on Saturday as a guest of Prime Minister Raila Odinga. This is a significant development because it goes to publicly show the nature and depth of the relationship between the two leaders. omwenga,Here is for your further education: EAST AFRICAN POLITICS. 1. Museveni is a man trying to build a dynasty. But his political base is increasingly narrowing, and he is desperate as every dictator nowadays is, in the light of popular awakenings. He is a king on a crown of thorns at home. 2. The same Raila who went to lecture Gbagbo on relinquishing power must have a sense of irony welcoming M7 who rigged his last bout, and swagad Besigye into a kenyan hospital, half blind. Raila the would-be progressive statesman, and contender to the biggest economy in the region, has a duty to the Ugandan people, long suffering under the yoke of Kaguta. 3..To the West lives a man who prevents M7 from peaceful sleep. His name is Paul Kagame. Why is a story for another day. PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS BETWEEN NEIGHBOURS 4a. Up North, there is a psychological problem. There is a sector of SPLA core commanders who have not bought the official reading of the helicopter crash that killed General John Garang. The M7 version so to speak. A hint of this was when the Ugandans just stopped short of saying an SPLA detachment had blocked their way as they narrowed down on Joseph Kony. [One has to wonder whether the Marines detachment Obama dispatched to secure the oil fields also have the task of keeping the UDF and the SPLA from one anothers throats. On old scores. 4b. Obama may not be a Jaruo proper, but you never know what he could have felt when M7 talked of mad Jaruos! --his distant, distant kins! 4c. M7 fully supported Kibaki in his rigging. He knows Raila remembers this, and, should Raila become president of Kenya, he could prevent M7 from getting away with his next planned rigging in favour of his son. Succession politics. M7 therefore is a man under siege --a frog jumping in broad daylight because something is after its life as Igbos say. He is on a charm offensive, and is carrying the carrot of oil deal for Raila. A joint oil exporting concession, as the energy intel rumours go. Is Raila greedy enough to bite? So, Omwenga, it aint really national trade bringing M7 to Ksm... If he ever thought of that, there is no way he could have sent his navy to tiny Migingo.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 19, 2012 1:03:29 GMT 3
So Jakaswanga, What are you going to do to uplift your home/my home/our home? Stone M7...? Stone Kibaki...? We have tried this before and it does not work. Welcoming an important and powerful neighbor with open arms for a change may be just the beginning of the change we need. Okolowaka, What I do --I will forgive your infantile remark about throwing stones as sarcasm emanating from frustrations with Nyanza politics!-- is try to engage my profession to the highest standards known in the globe. Because I am a teacher, that means I try to tune the minds of my students like those mechanics who make ready a grand-prix rally car. I do not do a substandard job. An example of what is wrong. Engineer so and so got a contract to build a bridge over a small river in Migori county. He built something which was swept away on the next slight rain. Now Engeland is filled with simple arch victorian bridges which still sustain high-speed trains. And continental europe still has working arch bridges built by the Romans centuries ago, and survived countless tremors. And here is a luo engineer building a bridge which lasts one month! yet nolonger a feat of much mental challenge! As a teacher I take the engineer boys and girls of our area and drive them to the bridge and start a drunken talk. 1. HAMURABI: We sentence the prominent engineer to death? 2. We yell the kikuyus are finishing luoland! god help us! 3.We praise him for being smart: kama itiyoe ema ichiemoe!4.We recognize the enemy within. The mental decay, that makes a qualified engineer not practice engineering? Koro ng'ato ka ng'ato okaw kore e chunye!I try to be a good village philosopher like the one who drank the fatal hemlock was!
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 19, 2012 1:18:04 GMT 3
According to a statement issued by the Prime Minister's office, Ugandan President Yoweri Kaguta Museveni is set to arrive in Kenya on Saturday as a guest of Prime Minister Raila Odinga. This is a significant development because it goes to publicly show the nature and depth of the relationship between the two leaders. omwenga,Here is for your further education: EAST AFRICAN POLITICS. 1. Museveni is a man trying to build a dynasty. But his political base is increasingly narrowing, and he is desperate as every dictator nowadays is, in the light of popular awakenings. He is a king on a crown of thorns at home. 2. The same Raila who went to lecture Gbagbo on relinquishing power must have a sense of irony welcoming M7 who rigged his last bout, and swagad Besigye into a kenyan hospital, half blind. Raila the would-be progressive statesman, and contender to the biggest economy in the region, has a duty to the Ugandan people, long suffering under the yoke of Kaguta. 3..To the West lives a man who prevents M7 from peaceful sleep. His name is Paul Kagame. Why is a story for another day. PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS BETWEEN NEIGHBOURS 4a. Up North, there is a psychological problem. There is a sector of SPLA core commanders who have not bought the official reading of the helicopter crash that killed General John Garang. The M7 version so to speak. A hint of this was when the Ugandans just stopped short of saying an SPLA detachment had blocked their way as they narrowed down on Joseph Kony. [One has to wonder whether the Marines detachment Obama dispatched to secure the oil fields also have the task of keeping the UDF and the SPLA from one anothers throats. On old scores. 4b. Obama may not be a Jaruo proper, but you never know what he could have felt when M7 talked of mad Jaruos! --his distant, distant kins! 4c. M7 fully supported Kibaki in his rigging. He knows Raila remembers this, and, should Raila become president of Kenya, he could prevent M7 from getting away with his next planned rigging in favour of his son. Succession politics. M7 therefore is a man under siege --a frog jumping in broad daylight because something is after its life as Igbos say. He is on a charm offensive, and is carrying the carrot of oil deal for Raila. A joint oil exporting concession, as the energy intel rumours go. Is Raila greedy enough to bite? So, Omwenga, it aint really national trade bringing M7 to Ksm... If he ever thought of that, there is no way he could have sent his navy to tiny Migingo. Jakaswanga,
There is nothing you have said here that I find "educational," let alone "more educational." There may be people on Jukwaa who are not educated much and therefore need to be "educated" but I doubt they are many and certainly not yours truly unless you are confusing "education" for information. If it's information you meant, in debate, the idea is to share one's views and let those who learn or get informed be so informed or learn or if it's something one thinks is profound and new but it's not to others who read it, at least they have expressed it or had their chance to say it---everyone is entitled to their opinion but no one ever said it must be original. Facts, on the other hand, is shared information for those who care to find them or learn more about them. Distortion of facts, innuendo or outright fabrication of facts to fit a narrative is the province of propagandists and conspiracy theorists much to the exclusion of everyone else. Be that as it may be, advising anyone that you are about to "educate" or inform them them something is not only redundant in this sense, given debate is about sharing information and facts, it basically says you are saying know more than the person such comment is directed when you (a) clearly have no basis to know that for sure and (b) even if you did, the wiser thing to do is simply share the information without chest-thumbing about your knowledge of it because someone else is certain to know the same thing and wondering what's the big deal you are making it out to be. I am in Kampala very regularly and know many of their key players to know whatever there is to know about the politics of the country besides what anyone who reads widely about the politics of the region would know, which is most of what you have said here minus the speculation. There is no need to analyze why it is important for Raila to forge good relations with Museveni beyond what has been said o this thread and yes this is fully with the full knowledge and understanding of the history of that country, its politicians, ours with them and so on. In politics, like much else in life, nothing happens of this nature by happenstance and there is no such a thing as strange bedfellows.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 19, 2012 1:29:30 GMT 3
....Jakaswanga... Uganda is currently Kenya's biggest trade partner and the soon-to-be oil producer and exporter may become the most important and influential country in EA soon. Raila understands this well and so he must play his cards well... Who knew M7 would come and do a harambee in Kisumu so soon after the "unkind" words he used to describe Luo's....? It is a matter of strategy; words will not hurt Raila, he has heard it all... In the next so many years after the oil starts flowing, we will all know how important it is to have a friend with a lot of oil to sell cheaply and a lot of money to buy our goods okolowaka,This is the second comment I promised: On Museveni, BusinessI do not mind doing business with any devil at any shore or depth of sea. But I preffer to be cold-blooded and wear no plastic salesman smile --[the famous Mcdonald servers smile!]. And essentilally I will not mind you telling Museveni he is the greatest democrat in Africa and god's gift to the same, if you are an employed diplomat in Kampala !
But for my President or Head of State, I want dignity, professionalism and hard-nosed sobriety. I do not expect procastination before an invader and occupier, nor the docility of a supplicant before a demi god. That is unacceptable, total anathema. Hurts the dignity and national pride. And nations can trade perfectly without selling their dignity!
So If Raila is minded to sell his a-double-s to M7 for personal profit and family business, he has no mandate including Kenyan national pride in the same deal. This is my point.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 19, 2012 1:35:39 GMT 3
omwenga, No propaganda? Then never write statements like: shows the nature and depth of the relationship between the two leaders! and it is 'such things' which separate Raila from the rest seeking the presidency....
I grant you still cannot spell propa-ja-nda, yes JA nor have you looked it up on the dictionary! as Kamale once suggested you do!
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Post by okolowaka on Feb 19, 2012 2:15:32 GMT 3
omwenga na raila, vichwa vyenu vimepiga knock! There is therefore practical need to maintain a working economic relationship with Uganda, in mutual national interest. That is pragmatism. But it does not mean welcoming with warmth, the dictator thief and annexer of our own territory! So let M7 come to Kenya yes, but to ask that he be WARMLY WELCOMED, is a pathetic useless minded Raila. An obnoxious political weirdo in degenerative pantomime. When Museveni came to Nairobi for the promulgation, the streets welcomed him with HUYO HUYO! UUUWI, MIGINGO DHI! And even non-Luos joined. I expect no less in Kisumu, even if the rumors say he has prepared the way: oolo pesa e loo mondo luo obodhi.. [M7 has taken the precaution to pour money on the ground for Luos to fall to, like quacking hens upon spilt millet!] This is what you expected from Kisumu people; then all hell would break loose in blogs, radios, and TVs all over about how Kisumu/Luo's/Raila and siasa mbaya, stones, etc, among other vices... I am sorry that your people have disappointed you this time. It is time to change and see politics as a game that wits and strategy can also win and not just booing and heckling. Saying Raila's or any other person's head imegonga knock for inviting M7 to help in a fundraiser for the GLUK trust fund in Kisumu and urging residents to accord him a warm welcome does not make sense. No permanent enemies in politics is the policy we must understand... Kenya will still need Uganda and Uganda will still need an exit port after all the heckling and booing you expected. We must therefore learn to co-exist and accommodate each other. Attending fundraisers is one such way..... Give credit where it is due, Jakaswanga, give constructive criticism and float solutions to what you see as what ails our backyard/Kisumu/Nyanza... My comments and opinions here are fair and balanced based on my experiences; I was born and bred in Kisumu so I know what I am talking about. I saw Kisumu fall into neglect and forgotten by both Kenyatta and Moi governments... If Raila's style of never having permanent enemies will help bring the much change we need in our backyard/Kisumu then I say let it be...enough heckling and booing...! There is nothing infantile about drawing attention to your call to Kisumu/Luo's not to warmly welcome M7 because it is what stood out in your post...It does not make sense... You expected Raila to invite M7 and then ask residents to boo and heckle...?
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 19, 2012 3:50:18 GMT 3
omwenga,No propaganda? Then never write statements like: shows the nature and depth of the relationship between the two leaders! and it is 'such things' which separate Raila from the rest seeking the presidency.... I grant you still cannot spell propa-ja-nda, yes JA nor have you looked it up on the dictionary! as Kamale once suggested you do! Jakaswanga,These are facts; you may choose to believe it's propaganda but that's your prerogative and no one is going to stop you from believing so or anything else for that matter but yourself. No idea what dictionaries have to do with any of this.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 19, 2012 12:13:39 GMT 3
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Post by abdulmote on Feb 19, 2012 16:36:47 GMT 3
Old age can provide a critical path towards acquiring wisdom. Within such acquisition, therein lies invaluable principles of compromise, striving for peace and pursuit of harmony between people. Better can be the outcome of such options, instead of the potentially destructive pride which may be fatally fuelled by either personal or collective ego.
Old age can be a source of worldly experience, acquired only over a lengthy period of time and with it the softening of one’s heart out of that experience. Such experience should make one well aware of the pitfalls lying embedded amongst the young hearts, ever so protective of their fatal and destructive ego and lacking the benefit of precious wisdom, which time is yet to be to provide the same.
Having said that, I urge you not to stop or shy away from offering valid criticisms upon any issue confronting you and where pangs of doubt abound. But I would also encourage you to seek to learn with humility and without prejudice of issues therein, that you may understand with an open heart any good reasons which may not have been fully explained by the experienced elder.
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 20, 2012 0:45:55 GMT 3
If Raila's style of never having permanent enemies will help bring the much change we need in our backyard/Kisumu then I say let it be...enough heckling and booing...! Okolowaka,To your point and knowing what we know about Museveni relative to 2007 and the aftermath, the Standard reports in the story below that Raila and Museveni resolved to forget the past and henceforth work together. Museveni also urged Mudavadi who was present at the meeting to remain united with Raila. This is great news and there is more to come. The story as reported by Standard: President Museveni advised Prime Minister Raila Odinga and his deputy Musalia Mudavadi to remain united when he spent time with two at the PM’s home in Opoda village, Bondo on Saturday evening. Earlier, the Ugandan leader went round the town meeting locals before moving to Raila’s home for a six hour closed-door meeting and dinner. Prime Minister Raila Odinga introduces his deputy Musalia Mudavadi to President Yoweri Museveni at the PM’s home. [PHOTO: PMPS] The meeting continued late into the wee hours of Saturday morning. Museveni’s advice was significant when weighed against the fact that Mudavadi is challenging the PM for the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) party’s presidential ticket. The meeting between Museveni and Raila appears to signal that the initially lukewarm relations between the two leaders have warmed up considerably. The two first broke the ice last year when they met in Uganda, and the hosting of Museveni by the PM over the weekend is being interpreted as a sign that the two are keen keen to mend fences. Only a year ago, they could hardly agree on anything, accusing each other over statements they made on the ownership of Migingo Island, the 2007 election campaigns in Kenya and the post-election violence. The latter particularly annoyed President Museveni, after gangs in Kibera uprooted sections of the Kenya-Uganda railway line a critical economic lifeline for his country, during the height of the violence.
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Post by kamalet on Feb 20, 2012 8:51:05 GMT 3
[quote author=omwenga board=general thread=6598 post=90280 time=1329603484 I am in Kampala very regularly and know many of their key players to know whatever there is to know about the politics of the country besides what anyone who reads widely about the politics of the region would know, which is most of what you have said here minus the speculation. .[/quote] You either are very careless with your words or in the alternative you floss too much! Just how often is "very regularly" that you are in Kampala? ? Does this not hurt your business interests in the far east? You need to be a bit smarter than this when showing off?
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 20, 2012 12:27:10 GMT 3
[quote author=omwenga board=general thread=6598 post=90280 time=1329603484 I am in Kampala very regularly and know many of their key players to know whatever there is to know about the politics of the country besides what anyone who reads widely about the politics of the region would know, which is most of what you have said here minus the speculation. . You either are very careless with your words or in the alternative you floss too much! Just how often is "very regularly" that you are in Kampala? ? Does this not hurt your business interests in the far east? You need to be a bit smarter than this when showing off?[/quote] Yours truly visits Kampala each time he is in Kenya which was 7-times last year; that's "very regular" to him. No idea how those visits would possibly "hurt" his business interests in the "far east." Please learn to differentiate between stating relevant facts and showing off, which by the way is a relative concept, depending on circumstances. The other day we run into a preschool teacher for our youngest boy now 8 and she inquired how he was doing in school to which he replied he is getting all As. That's not showing off; it's stating a fact relevant to a question asked. Without even missing a beat, the young man asked the teacher how she was doing and we all laughed when she jokingly replied not as good. She is finishing her Master's degree. The same school our kids attend gives parents whose kids are on the Honor Roll bumper stickers acknowledging same; we have never at any time displayed any on our vehicles those given to us; not that doing so is "showing off" but simply a matter of preference. As one who regularly gets invited to speak to students at his college alma mater about life after college, you will never hear him mention anything about trips to any of the many specific places he travels globally but will note if one enjoys traveling, then considering a career in such and such fields or certain areas within law is appropriate. I can go on but I am sure you already consider this "showing off" when, in fact, it's stating facts relevant to your bogus charge that yours truly is showing off by noting he "very regularly" visits Kampala, which is a fact.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 20, 2012 18:54:13 GMT 3
Old age can provide a critical path towards acquiring wisdom. Within such acquisition, therein lies invaluable principles of compromise, striving for peace and pursuit of harmony between people. Better can be the outcome of such options, instead of the potentially destructive pride which may be fatally fuelled by either personal or collective ego. Old age can be a source of worldly experience, acquired only over a lengthy period of time and with it the softening of one’s heart out of that experience. Such experience should make one well aware of the pitfalls lying embedded amongst the young hearts, ever so protective of their fatal and destructive ego and lacking the benefit of precious wisdom, which time is yet to be to provide the same. Having said that, I urge you not to stop or shy away from offering valid criticisms upon any issue confronting you and where pangs of doubt abound. But I would also encourage you to seek to learn with humility and without prejudice of issues therein, that you may understand with an open heart any good reasons which may not have been fully explained by the experienced elder. Abdul,Subtle, very subtle indeed. The import has not bypassed me. But see now if you can answer me like a sage on this one. A valid critique I think. Here on Jukwaa --I have not managed to trace the thread immidiately-- our robust photoreporter Titchaz gave us some from the streets of Kampala looking like Baghdad in her heydays as a warzone. Ugandan soldiers in full combat gear are caught issueing out of jeeps and millitary SUVs, firing live on their fellow citizens. Then there is Dr. Besigye, bludgeoned and blinded like like a street thug by M7s boys. This is the leader of the opposition who was defeated under suspicious circumstances. Though this occasion was the fuel protest and walk to work. Now you remember Raila was in Zimbabue to show solidarity with the MDC, whose leader Morgan T. is treated no better than M7 treats Besigye. Though Besigye is not in a coalition arrangement. When you hear Raila's message to the MDC conference, about opposing dictators whose times are gone who are a plague in Africa! about the need to come up for democratic movements, how do you square it with the warm relations with M7 the person? There is an issue of credibility here --If Raila claims the progressive mantle in Kenya and Africa. Unless we give M7 a clean bill of democratic health! Do you see why a South African official, following Raila's visit to Zimbabue and his swipes at Mugabe, dismissed Raila as that Kenyan who has never meant anything he said, and will never mean anything he says! [Zuma's government is close to Mugabe for historical reasons and they never like outsiders condemning Big Old Robert]. If you read some Ugandan blogs, you will see them certifying M7 a national robber. So when he donates 8M ksh without specifying whether it is state money, we must be aware some Ugandans are saying we are the beneficiaries of stolen property. And last: If Raila had peformed his task of supervision and co-ordination of minstries well, then Prof. Ongeri and co would not have stolen nor misused so much of tha kitty/beurs from the UK! [which taxpayers are now refunding!]. Then money would have remained after efficient use, to fund these GLUKs, and M7 would spent his ill gotten cash to uprade schools in his own backyard! PS: It appears Kibaki was scheduled to come. But called off last minute.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 20, 2012 19:08:11 GMT 3
[ Jakaswanga, There is nothing you have said here that I find "educational," let alone "more educational." There may be people on Jukwaa who are not educated much and therefore need to be "educated" but I doubt they are many and certainly not yours truly unless you are confusing "education" for information. If it's information you meant, in debate, the idea is to share one's views and let those who learn or get informed be so informed or learn or if it's something one thinks is profound and new but it's not to others who read it, at least they have expressed it or had their chance to say it---everyone is entitled to their opinion but no one ever said it must be original. Facts, on the other hand, is shared information for those who care to find them or learn more about them. Distortion of facts, innuendo or outright fabrication of facts to fit a narrative is the province of propagandists and conspiracy theorists much to the exclusion of everyone else. Be that as it may be, advising anyone that you are about to "educate" or inform them them something is not only redundant in this sense, given debate is about sharing information and facts, it basically says you are saying know more than the person such comment is directed when you (a) clearly have no basis to know that for sure and (b) even if you did, the wiser thing to do is simply share the information without chest-thumbing about your knowledge of it because someone else is certain to know the same thing and wondering what's the big deal you are making it out to be. I am in Kampala very regularly and know many of their key players to know whatever there is to know about the politics of the country besides what anyone who reads widely about the politics of the region would know, which is most of what you have said here minus the speculation. There is no need to analyze why it is important for Raila to forge good relations with Museveni beyond what has been said o this thread and yes this is fully with the full knowledge and understanding of the history of that country, its politicians, ours with them and so on. In politics, like much else in life, nothing happens of this nature by happenstance and there is no such a thing as strange bedfellows. omwenga, You wont be educated. Sawa. Even the best teachers meet their match in incorrigible sheep! The information and facts too are actually available aplenty. Only the power to organise it, arrange and lay logical connections between the various components to reveal yet more hidden realities, is wanting. That is analysis. And when you say there is no need to analyse... I give you a the same marks I gave Wetangula when he went to do Bashir's shamba! Remember in criminal law, from the same set of facts the defence and prosecution go at one anothers throats. Interpretation then, logical speculation [theory and deduction] then, are the determining factors, not the information which by itself is not explanative. I will be afraid to distort facts on Jukwaa, because minds are sharp here. I will speculate, but I will be meticulously logical. And when I serve innuendo, it will of the erotical nature. But on Uganda, omwenga's mind, I think, is definately compromised. You dispute Besigye being terrorised by a Museveni bent on a dynastic succession. You praises m7s democratic credentials, like you were another shamba boy milking ankole longhorns for the dictator! [Why?] And by second opinion, even on Kenyan politics, I doubt you think straight. [Your advice to Mudavadi was childish]
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 20, 2012 19:13:21 GMT 3
[quote author=omwenga board=general thread=6598 post=90280 time=1329603484 I am in Kampala very regularly and know many of their key players to know whatever there is to know about the politics of the country besides what anyone who reads widely about the politics of the region would know, which is most of what you have said here minus the speculation. . You either are very careless with your words or in the alternative you floss too much! Just how often is "very regularly" that you are in Kampala? ? Does this not hurt your business interests in the far east? You need to be a bit smarter than this when showing off?[/quote] So he has business interests in Uganda, and that is why he is M7s shamba boy! If he writes the truth about the dictator then not even a visa! Aha, omwenga, you have to write blurb and hold brief for that clique around m7 for the sake of dear bread! Well, we all gotta eat, but to sell ones intellectual integrity is a price too high for me!
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