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Post by reporter911 on Mar 17, 2012 17:35:07 GMT 3
ARE KENYANS AWARE THAT COLONIZATION IS BACK IN FULL FORCE?IN A DIFFERENT STYLE THAT IS VERY DECEIVING...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y-7b9QbVJUo#t=297s [/youtube] [youtube]
(IN KENYA IT HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR MANY YEARS THE RICH LEASE FARM LAND OUT WHILE IDP'S HAVE NOWHERE TO LIVE)
I PREFER THIS HISTORY- LETS BE REMINDED.. IT ALL BEGAN IN AFRICA..CIVILIZATION
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 17, 2012 17:46:31 GMT 3
FANTASIC DEBATE ONLINE THAT EVERYONE CAN VOICE THEIR OPINIONS www.forandagainst.com/Africa_Ought_To_Be_Colonized_Again_To_Make_It_Stable FOR: IS AT 30% AGAINST 70%I'm glad the African continent is awake to the plans of the same colonial masters.. but the question is " can Africa Continent protect it self against the new threat of Colonization which is moving at a fast pace through Africom?? one example that people should look at is Kony2012? and the speed on which it become Viral demanding the West to send foot soldiers to Uganda to catch KONY? very interesting Scenario.. and here are is the Co-Founder of Invisible Children Organization that put our KONY 2012.. www.tmz.com/2012/03/16/jason-russell-video-naked-meltdown-kony/#.T2So0GJWrj0 shocking!!!SERIOUSLY IS THIS THE GUY PEOPLE SHOULD LISTEN TO DRUMMING UP WESTERN ARMY FOOT SOLDIERS- IN UGANDA IN THE PRETENCE OF CATCHING KONY? OR IS IT ABOUT THE OIL
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 17, 2012 19:53:06 GMT 3
NEWS OUTSIDE KENYA BOX THAT KENYANS SHOULD BE AWARE OFF!! Most of the explanations we were given at the time have turned out to be false. It didn't happen because supply fell: the International Grain Council says global production of wheat actually increased during that period, for example. It isn't because demand grew either: as Professor Jayati Ghosh of the Centre for Economic Studies in New Delhi has shown, demand actually fell by 3 per cent. Other factors – like the rise of biofuels, and the spike in the oil price – made a contribution, but they aren't enough on their own to explain such a violent shift. To understand the biggest cause, you have to plough through some concepts that will make your head ache – but not half as much as they made the poor world's stomachs ache. For over a century, farmers in wealthy countries have been able to engage in a process where they protect themselves against risk. Farmer Giles can agree in January to sell his crop to a trader in August at a fixed price. If he has a great summer, he'll lose some cash, but if there's a lousy summer or the global price collapses, he'll do well from the deal. When this process was tightly regulated and only companies with a direct interest in the field could get involved, it worked. If this seems mystifying, it is. John Lanchester, in his superb guide to the world of finance, Whoops! Why Everybody Owes Everyone and No One Can Pay, explains: "Finance, like other forms of human behaviour, underwent a change in the 20th century, a shift equivalent to the emergence of modernism in the arts – a break with common sense, a turn towards self-referentiality and abstraction and notions that couldn't be explained in workaday English." Poetry found its break with realism when T S Eliot wrote "The Wasteland". Finance found its Wasteland moment in the 1970s, when it began to be dominated by complex financial instruments that even the people selling them didn't fully understand. So while the supply and demand of food stayed pretty much the same, the supply and demand for derivatives based on food massively rose – which meant the all-rolled-into-one price shot up, and the starvation began. The bubble only burst in March 2008 when the situation got so bad in the US that the speculators had to slash their spending to cover their losses back home. When I asked Merrill Lynch's spokesman to comment on the charge of causing mass hunger, he said: "Huh. I didn't know about that." He later emailed to say: "I am going to decline comment." Deutsche Bank also refused to comment. Goldman Sachs were more detailed, saying they sold their index in early 2007 and pointing out that "serious analyses ... have concluded index funds did not cause a bubble in commodity futures prices", offering as evidence a statement by the OECD. How do we know this is wrong? As Professor Ghosh points out, some vital crops are not traded on the futures markets, including millet, cassava, and potatoes. Their price rose a little during this period – but only a fraction as much as the ones affected by speculation. Her research shows that speculation was "the main cause" of the rise. So it has come to this. The world's wealthiest speculators set up a casino where the chips were the stomachs of hundreds of millions of innocent people. They gambled on increasing starvation, and won. Their Wasteland moment created a real wasteland. What does it say about our political and economic system that we can so casually inflict so much pain?If we don't re-regulate, it is only a matter of time before this all happens again. How many people would it kill next time? The moves to restore the pre-1990s rules on commodities trading have been stunningly sluggish. In the US, the House has passed some regulation, but there are fears that the Senate – drenched in speculator-donations – may dilute it into meaninglessness. The EU is lagging far behind even this, while in Britain, where most of this "trade" takes place, advocacy groups are worried that David Cameron's government will block reform entirely to please his own friends and donors in the City. Only one force can stop another speculation-starvation-bubble. The decent people in developed countries need to shout louder than the lobbyists from Goldman Sachs. The World Development Movement is launching a week of pressure this summer as crucial decisions on this are taken: text WDM to 82055 to find out what you can do. www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-how-goldman-gambled-on-starvation-2016088.html
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 20, 2012 21:23:08 GMT 3
ETHIOPIA: LAND GRAB IN GAMBELLA AND CIVIL STRIFE. NB: There has been a deadly ethnic narrative to the Ethiopian land problems. The Tigrayan ruling clique is leasing land in areas far from Tigray, and pocketing the bonus. The terms, for instance of flower growing, have been so jovial that we have seen some flower growers abandon Kenya [where they have ruined lake Elementaita] for Ethiopia. Because these leases are done without consultation with the local population, who sometimes wake up to find whole tracts of pasture fences off, there have been deadly skirmishes. In one particular incident, an Indian investor was killed by locals whose watering river he had fenced off and, by rumours, poisoned to kill the cattle who were trampling his land. This means the Tigrayan clique needs the army to pacify these areas. These pacifications as is evidenced in Gambella, has been no less than Omar el Shabab of North Sudan dealing with Darfur! Ethiopia continues to have a massive standing army, citing tiny Eritrea, but anti-regime Ethiopians point to the need for the tiny Tigray clique of Meles Zelawi to stay in power by force, like Assad of Syria. But Ethiopia has managed to sell herself to Washington as a custodian of stability and a champion terrorist fighter. And Obama, swallowed this all, and has armed Meles even more. south sudan.SS: LAND GRAB AND DEFORESTATIONLAND OH LAND SUDAN LAND GRABSlogging and carbon credits
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 20, 2012 21:29:25 GMT 3
Reporter911, Do you mind expanding the thread to iclude the scramble for African resources by other powers other than the Westerns? China in Afrika seems to keep so many people awake! Already being painted in the West as the new monster worse than western [neo-]colonialism was or is!
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 20, 2012 21:55:01 GMT 3
Reporter911, Do you mind expanding the thread to iclude the scramble for African resources by other powers other than the Westerns? China in Afrika seems to keep so many people awake! Already being painted in the West as the new monster worse than western [neo-]colonialism was or is! I'm more looking at the invasion angle with Boots "soldiers" on the ground like in the case of Uganda after they discovered oil. I haven't read or come across any document stating that China is ready to send it's Army to Africa like in the Case of "Africom" have you? I could post many links on the topic but here are just two rogerpociask.posterous.com/wikileaks-africom-attack-on-libya-was-about-owww.foreignaffairs.com/articles/67844/jonathan-stevenson/africoms-libyan-expeditionChina and other countries from the Asia Block and south America including Iran are in Africa to do business using soft diplomacy, Why do you think African Countries decided to go east in search for investment? lets not bundle countries together in regard to what is happening in Africa, some are in Africa because the African countries welcomed them for Business because they offered good deals, but it was not by force with the power of boots on the ground, good example being Libya.. If you have your own augment in regards to China taking over Africa as you say I suggest you start your own thread and explain to everyone out there why you made your statement at least that will give everyone a chance to look closely to what China is doing in Africa Pro's & con's, we might all be missing something. My statement is more of who is trying to place army boots on the ground to police Africa! is it a second round of Colonization of Africa and why? who is coming in to take over 1. Minerals, Oil, land, e.t.c using force instead of using trade exchange! who is ready to send in it's amy to enforce their agenda e.t.c My take on China is that it is using persuasive soft power packaged in terms of financial or trade exchanges between them and Africa countries, some people out there feel China might just be the next Super Power! do I agree with that.. mmmm the verdict is still out there..
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 20, 2012 22:09:12 GMT 3
It's amazing that 50+ years after "independence" people still yada yada yada about what the West is supposedly doing to us. The fact that we first let the West do it and are now encouraging the East to take their turn never seems to enter the equation.
And then there is what we do to ourselves. Look around Kenya, and you will see that the people [REDACTING] the citizens in the [REDACTED] are none other than Kenyans. What's more we are more than happy to recycle them into positions of power, with the 5 intervening years devoted to whining about how they care only for themselves. We live in a country where people charged, at the highest international levels, with the worst crimes known to humanity----mass rape, mass murder, large-scale population displacement, ethnic persecution, and other inhumane acts---can still manage to get large cheering crowds of citizens to cheer their rabble-rousing. I have yet to see wazungus at those events.
About 5 years ago, the country descended into an orgy of satanic violence. I don't recall seeing many wazungus participate in that; and now, ironically, it's mostly wazungus involved in ensuring that the victims get some justice. Even locally, the authorities have decided that some form of justice ought to be meted out---because it provide a means for the major criminals to slither out of the noose of justice.
Let's actually back up a little and consider the most basic thing: the ability to feed oneself. We have weather forecasts, droughts are predicted, and yet nothing happens, and we always end up begging for food. And always after thousands are already died. Right now we just went through one such round. We begged, and we got fed. Stomachs are full. Do you hear about any plans to prepare for the next time? Nop. It's all Uhuru, Ruto, Raila, Raila, Raila. Then some more Uhuru, Ruto, Raila, Raila, Raile. Then some more again. Is that because there are some people from the West forcing us to do all that?
I have been bemused to hear some citizens and leading politicians that we no longer need to beg from the West because we can now beg from the East. That there might be a third alternative----namely, no begging and self-sufficiency---never seems to occur to such people.
People, from the level of individuals to nations and groups of nations look after their interests first. To the extent that they accommodate other interests, it's because they stand to gain from it. We know that, but hey we always act surprised that other nations are happy to use us for their interests. When will Africa and Africans start taking care of Africa and Africans? If we absolutely have no control and are like children----and I'd like to believe that neither is the case---then perhaps we should ask for voluntary re-colonisation. (We can call it "outsourcing of country governance" and insist on certain levels of performance for certain levels of pay.) But what won't do is this endless whining and whining and whining about the West when we are so busy [REDACTING] ourselves in the [REDACTED].
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 20, 2012 22:18:05 GMT 3
It's amazing that 50+ years after "independence" people still yada yada yada about what the West is supposedly doing to us. The fact that we first let the West do it and are now encouraging the East to take their turn never seems to enter the equation. And then there is what we do to ourselves. Look around Kenya, and you will see that the people [REDACTING] the citizens in the [REDACTED] are none other than Kenyans. What's more we are more than happy to recyle them into positions of power, with the 5 intervening years devoted to whining about how they care only for themselves. We live in a country where people charged, at the highest international levels, with the worst crimes known to humanity----mass rape, mass murder, large-scale population displacement, ethnic persecution, and other inhumane acts---can still manage to get large cheering crowds of citizens to cheer their rabble-rousing. I have yet to see wazungus at those events. About 5 years ago, the country descended into an orgy of satanic violence. I don't recall seeing many wazungus participate in that; and now, ironically, it's mostly wazungus involved in ensuring that the victims get some justice. Even locally, the authorities have decided that some form of justice ought to be meted out---because it provide a means for the major criminals to slither out of the noose of justice. Let's actually back up a little and consider the most basic thing: the ability to feed oneself. We have weather forecasts, droughts are predicted, and yet nothing happens, and we always end up begging for food. And always after thousands are already died. Right now we just went through one such round. We begged, and we got fed. Stomachs are full. Do you hear about any plans to prepare for the next time? Nop. It's all Uhuru, Ruto, Raila, Raila, Raila. Then some more Uhuru, Ruto, Raila, Raila, Raile. Then some more again. Is that because there are some people from the West forcing us to do all that? I have been besmused to hear some citizens and leading politicians that we no longer need to beg from the West because we can now beg from the East. That there might be a third alternative----namely, no begging and self-sufficiency---never seems to occur to such people. People, from the level of individuals to nations and groups of nations look after their interests first. To the extent that they accommodate other interests, it's because they stand to gain from it. We know that, but hey we always act surprised that other nations are happy to use us for their interests. When will Africa and Africans start taking care of Africa and Africans? If we absoluutely have no control and are like children----and I'd like to believe that neither is the case---then perhaps we should ask for voluntary re-colonisation. (We can call it "outsourcing of country governance" and insist on certain levels of performance for certain levels of pay.) But what won't do is this endless whining and whining and whining about the West when we are so busy [REDACTING] ourselves in the [REDACTED]. If you took time to read and look at the world at large globally and what is happening I bet you would not write what you just wrote.. on my post it is not about Africans taking care of themselves and their countries.. it is about which countries or super powers are looking to rape Africa off it's minerals, Oil, fresh water, land e.t.c Trust me Africa is not in a position to defend itself once this powerful well equipped Militarized countries decide to come into by Africa by force.. Ask Libya or Egypt and now they are heading to Uganda.. So lets not be naive on what is happening in the world today and why there is a rush to control Africa by the foreign powers pitching against each other.. If you have anything to add to why America and China are in competition to control the African continent then we can debate on it.
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 20, 2012 22:26:31 GMT 3
reporter911: Our leaders prefer to go to the Chinese because they don't ask questions like, "why are mass murdering your people?", "why do you torture people just because they speak their mind?", .... you know, the awkward human-rights stuff.
And the Chinese, while giving soft loans that people think they won't pay back, make a good deal out of their "aid": They rip us off in the sale of raw materials, turn them into products that don't last for more than a month, and then sell them right back to us at a huge margin.
The West [REDACTED] us, now it's the East's turn. After that it's the Middle (the oil-rich Arabs), and who knows after that. And we happily take it in the [REDACTED]! And we have Africans happily cheering along. I tell you, I sometimes in mwafrika is not the Genuine Mission Impossible.
We need to wake up and take our fate in our own hands!
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 20, 2012 22:38:31 GMT 3
If you took time to read and look at the world at large globally and what is happening I bet you would not write what you just wrote.. on my post it is not about Africans taking care of themselves and their countries.. it is about which countries or super powers are looking to rape Africa off it's minerals, Oil, fresh water, land e.t.c Trust me Africa is not in a position to defend itself once this powerful well equipped Militarized countries decide to come into by Africa by force.. Ask Libya or Egypt and now they are heading to Uganda.. So lets not be naive on what is happening in the world today and why there is a rush to control Africa by the foreign powers pitching against each other.. If you have anything to add to why America and China are in competition to control the African continent then we can debate on it. Ndugu, I am not a big geopolitical guy or whatever. I start with my house, then the village, ... then the nation of Kenya. In Kenya, whenever I look and directly experience things at all those levels, I don't see the Evil Hand of The West. Wait! You will tell me that everyone is being controlled by remote by some Evil Western Hand, right? Let me ask you some questions: a) At the level of "Africa", what do you suppose we should do, if your theory is right? Beg the West or whomever to stop doing it? Do you think they will? Why or why not? b) At the national level, some people think that our problems have their roots in tribalism, endless corruption, a sheepish tribalistic population, lazy demagogues in high political office, etc. But perhaps it is just the West doing it to us. What do you think we should do in order to make progress? Being slow and small of mind, may I ask that you humour me by first considering the local Kenyan case, and then you can slowly ane gently introduce me to the larger, global, geo-political case? What say you to to that, ndugu?
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 20, 2012 23:29:29 GMT 3
If you took time to read and look at the world at large globally and what is happening I bet you would not write what you just wrote.. on my post it is not about Africans taking care of themselves and their countries.. it is about which countries or super powers are looking to rape Africa off it's minerals, Oil, fresh water, land e.t.c Trust me Africa is not in a position to defend itself once this powerful well equipped Militarized countries decide to come into by Africa by force.. Ask Libya or Egypt and now they are heading to Uganda.. So lets not be naive on what is happening in the world today and why there is a rush to control Africa by the foreign powers pitching against each other.. If you have anything to add to why America and China are in competition to control the African continent then we can debate on it. Ndugu, I am not a big geopolitical guy or whatever. I start with my house, then the village, ... then the nation of Kenya. In Kenya, whenever I look and directly experience things at all those levels, I don't see the Evil Hand of The West. Wait! You will tell me that everyone is being controlled by remote by some Evil Western Hand, right? Let me ask you some questions: a) At the level of "Africa", what do you suppose we should do, if your theory is right? Beg the West or whomever to stop doing it? Do you think they will? Why or why not? b) At the national level, some people think that our problems have their roots in tribalism, endless corruption, a sheepish tribalistic population, lazy demagogues in high political office, etc. But perhaps it is just the West doing it to us. What do you think we should do in order to make progress? Being slow and small of mind, may I ask that you humour me by first considering the local Kenyan case, and then you can slowly ane gently introduce me to the larger, global, geo-political case? What say you to to that, ndugu? otishotish the fact that you are on Jukwaa tells us all that you are intelligent enough and educated to see what is happening around the world and how it is all intwined to each continent due to globalization. But if you want to call yourself names like "Slow" and Small Mind you are welcome to do so I can't argue with that. We in Kenya don't live in isolation from other countries or continents, we trade with most continents North America, Europe and Asia, in that regard ofcourse Kenya will be affected regardless of how well we handle our politics, stop tribalism e.t.c if Kenya were to stop being a trading partner with other countries, how far do you think Kenya will be in survival mode? The way I see it Africa is a continent rich in Minerals, Oil and water catchments, and there those who are ready to take it by any means.. As for the political situation in Kenya I leave to Kenya Citizens to deal with it, Our people are very Intelligent and knowledgable I trust in the end kenyans wil do the right thing.. few corrupt elements in powerful positions does not mean that most Kenyans are corrupt or tribalists.. I hope your small mind as you call it can relate to that.. But me thinks you are one of those Brilliant Kenyans with multipal PHD's under the belt and you are just here to debate which I enjoy... Human rights violation happens in every country in the world including Kenya but many countries choose to point fingers at each other
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Post by hannali on Mar 21, 2012 0:12:05 GMT 3
JASON RUSSELL was playing with fire..............Didnt he know KONY has MUTI?? KONY's SORCERY is overwhelmingly powerful Now he must look for a stronger sorcerer,sangoma,night runner,spellbinder,Loliondo and theurgist to cure him of this witchcraft from Kony
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2012 1:03:12 GMT 3
otishotish
you're back with a vengeance!
REDACTED REDACTED REDACTED like we can't fill in the gaps. jakaswanga and you are so much alike. how comes?
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 21, 2012 1:23:35 GMT 3
otishotish the fact that you are on Jukwaa tells us all that you are intelligent enough and educated to see what is happening around the world and how it is all intwined to each continent due to globalization. But if you want to call yourself names like "Slow" and Small Mind you are welcome to do so I can't argue with that. We in Kenya don't live in isolation from other countries or continents, we trade with most continents North America, Europe and Asia, in that regard ofcourse Kenya will be affected regardless of how well we handle our politics, stop tribalism e.t.c if Kenya were to stop being a trading partner with other countries, how far do you think Kenya will be in survival mode? The way I see it Africa is a continent rich in Minerals, Oil and water catchments, and there those who are ready to take it by any means.. As for the political situation in Kenya I leave to Kenya Citizens to deal with it, Our people are very Intelligent and knowledgable I trust in the end kenyans wil do the right thing.. few corrupt elements in powerful positions does not mean that most Kenyans are corrupt or tribalists.. I hope your small mind as you call it can relate to that.. But me thinks you are one of those Brilliant Kenyans with multipal PHD's under the belt and you are just here to debate which I enjoy... Human rights violation happens in every country in the world including Kenya but many countries choose to point fingers at each other Brother: The only thing you can conclude from my being on Jukwaa is that I can read, write, and use a keyboard. If being on an internet forum is a sign of intelligence, then a look at most Kenyan internet forums would be enough to make you go stand in front of the 2:14 Express and let it take care of business. As for PhDs, I have two: one is from the University of Life, and the other is from the International Academy of Hard Knocks. Kenya and Kenyans: I write quite a bit, and you may see some of it here, out of sheer anger and frustration. Anger at our so-called leaders, who seem to be leading us into Hell, and frustration with my compatriots, who seem to be content and accept it all. You say Kenyans are "very Intelligent and knowledgeable". I disagree. If we are, why do we keep recycling the same sorry "leaders" into power? Why do we willingly slaughter each other for them to get into power? Why do hundreds of thousands of people show up to cheer people charged with heinous crimes? I know I'm going to get beaten up over this one, but I will say it anyway: A large part of the Kenyan populace consists of unthinking tribalistic sheep. As I see it, we can either pretend that that is not the case, or we can undertake serious civic education, of the type that will help people make a direct connection between how how they exercise their democratic rights and their situation in day-to-day life. You write, "The way I see it Africa is a continent rich in Minerals, Oil and water catchments, and there those who are ready to take it by any means..". I don't know about the "any means", but I will not argue about that. Instead, I will ask: what are we doing to get the best deal out of it? I was in Botswana not long ago. They have plenty of desirable resources---far more than the Egypt where people see all sorts of fantastic theories---and they are putting it to good use. It is a generally functional country and in many ways could be a model for many African countries. I didn't hear too much of what the West is supposedly doing to them, nor did I get the impression that the local populace expends a great deal of energy doing nasty things to each other. Nor did I get the impression that the West had decided to cut them some sort of special deal. Food for thought. I do not propose, nor did I suggest, that we disengage from the rest of the world. My position is very simple: Why complain about what the rest of the world is doing to you when you are doing even nastier things to yourselves? We might not have a great deal of control over what the the world does to us or wishes to do to us, but we do when it comes to what we do to ourselves. I tend to get amused when people say, as you have done, that "this happens everywhere in the world". I tend to hear that quite a lot from Kenyans when I denounce corruption in Kenya, and, invariably, the people I hear it from are far away from Kenya or very comfortable in Kenya. About 7 years ago, I decided to confirm what I thought would be the natural reaction to the average Kenyan to such a remark: When I was home, I asked about 100 Kenyans---YES, I really did---how they felt about corruption in the country. After they gave me the obvious answer, I told them not to worry, that these things happen all over the world. Their response, in several variations, was about the same: "How does that help us in our suffering here?". We could get into lengthy, academic discussions about how they don't see the "big global picture" yada yada yada, but I tend to see their point: they are Kenyans, living in Kenya, and the people shafting them are Kenyans living in Kenya. Why drag the rest of the world into it? Or, why not, at least, fix the immediate and local problem before worrying about the rest of the world. As for your cavalier attitude that "Human rights violation happens in every country in the world including Kenya but many countries choose to point fingers at each other": That may be so, but, and you may call me small-minded if you wish, much as I care about human rights all over the world, I special interest in Kenya. Terrible things have happened in our country, in the name of people getting into power, and I refuse to simply sweep it aside on the basis of what happens elsewhere: There were mass rapes, mass murders, mass displacement, ... [refer to the ICC charge sheet]. Women and children were burnt alive in a House of God. Men had their members crudely amputated. Etc. None of that had anything to do with other countries or with people living in those other countries. That was us doing very nasty things to each other. And at the rate at which we are cheering those deemed to be most responsible, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again. That is why I tend to get surprised when most Kenyans I meet here want to talk about who will win the elections: I too think about the elections but mostly in terms of making plans to get some immediate family members out of the country if things go awry. I'm sure we'll get to the "big global picture" and "East/West" at some point, and we should continue to engage with them, but I would prefer it if we first focused on the following: 1. Food security. We can go on and on about intelligent and knowledgeable Kenyans, sovereign state, yada yada yada. But people do actually need to eat. Moreover, the rest of the world will never respect people who are happy to do very nasty things to each other but won't stop long enough to make sure they have something to eat. 2. Basic health. This is the 21st century, and you would be surprised at the number of Kenyans who die from, or whose health is affected by, easily preventable diseases. As a matter of fact, just having access to clean water would make enormous differences in health. 3. Basic education and access to information. Yes, you may beat me up for saying it, but this is the start to moving the unthinking, tribalistic sheep who are more than happy to simply go by what they year from the market on Wednesday afternoon or what they hear from the local manambas. 4. Personal security. Every time I visit home, I am astounded at how bad things have become. Even people I consider as middle-class (by Kenyan standards) have dogs and watchmen because someone is out to violently rob them. 5. Basic infrastructure. (We'll skip than the bad traffic policing that leads to hundreds off avoidable deaths on the road each year.) The road from the nearest town to my home-home is now worse than it was 30 years ago. And that's went it doesn't rain. As a matter of fact, people with good vehicles no longer drive on the road itself, as the potholes are too large and dangerous: they drive along the side of the road, or alternate from between left and right, regardless of the direction of travel. Whence the joke: "On which side of the road do people in X drive?" I will finish the list later .... Yes, I know people will say, "these things are so in other countries". True, but I am not very concerned with other countries. I am concerned with Kenya and the my Plan B country (where I now live). Let's first do the best that we can for ourselves, and then, and only then, proceed to blame the rest of the world for our predicament.
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 21, 2012 1:23:42 GMT 3
JASON RUSSELL was playing with fire..............Didnt he know KONY has MUTI?? KONY's SORCERY is overwhelmingly powerful Now he must look for a stronger sorcerer,sangoma,night runner,spellbinder,Loliondo and theurgist to cure him of this witchcraft from Kony ;D ;D you made my day
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 21, 2012 3:07:50 GMT 3
otishotish the fact that you are on Jukwaa tells us all that you are intelligent enough and educated to see what is happening around the world and how it is all intwined to each continent due to globalization. But if you want to call yourself names like "Slow" and Small Mind you are welcome to do so I can't argue with that. We in Kenya don't live in isolation from other countries or continents, we trade with most continents North America, Europe and Asia, in that regard ofcourse Kenya will be affected regardless of how well we handle our politics, stop tribalism e.t.c if Kenya were to stop being a trading partner with other countries, how far do you think Kenya will be in survival mode? The way I see it Africa is a continent rich in Minerals, Oil and water catchments, and there those who are ready to take it by any means.. As for the political situation in Kenya I leave to Kenya Citizens to deal with it, Our people are very Intelligent and knowledgable I trust in the end kenyans wil do the right thing.. few corrupt elements in powerful positions does not mean that most Kenyans are corrupt or tribalists.. I hope your small mind as you call it can relate to that.. But me thinks you are one of those Brilliant Kenyans with multipal PHD's under the belt and you are just here to debate which I enjoy... Human rights violation happens in every country in the world including Kenya but many countries choose to point fingers at each other Brother: The only thing you can conclude from my being on Jukwaa is that I can read, write, and use a keyboard. If being on an internet forum is a sign of intelligence, then a look at most Kenyan internet forums would be enough to make you go stand in front of the 2:14 Express and let it take care of business. As for PhDs, I have two: one is from the University of Life, and the other is from the International Academy of Hard Knocks. Kenya and Kenyans: I write quite a bit, and you may see some of it here, out of sheer anger and frustration. Anger at our so-called leaders, who seem to be leading us into Hell, and frustration with my compatriots, who seem to be content and accept it all. You say Kenyans are "very Intelligent and knowledgeable". I disagree. If we are, why do we keep recycling the same sorry "leaders" into power? Why do we willingly slaughter each other for them to get into power? Why do hundreds of thousands of people show up to cheer people charged with heinous crimes? I know I'm going to get beaten up over this one, but I will say it anyway: A large part of the Kenyan populace consists of unthinking tribalistic sheep. As I see it, we can either pretend that that is not the case, or we can undertake serious civic education, of the type that will help people make a direct connection between how how they exercise their democratic rights and their situation in day-to-day life. You write, "The way I see it Africa is a continent rich in Minerals, Oil and water catchments, and there those who are ready to take it by any means..". I don't know about the "any means", but I will not argue about that. Instead, I will ask: what are we doing to get the best deal out of it? I was in Botswana not long ago. They have plenty of desirable resources---far more than the Egypt where people see all sorts of fantastic theories---and they are putting it to good use. It is a generally functional country and in many ways could be a model for many African countries. I didn't hear too much of what the West is supposedly doing to them, nor did I get the impression that the local populace expends a great deal of energy doing nasty things to each other. Nor did I get the impression that the West had decided to cut them some sort of special deal. Food for thought. I do not propose, nor did I suggest, that we disengage from the rest of the world. My position is very simple: Why complain about what the rest of the world is doing to you when you are doing even nastier things to yourselves? We might not have a great deal of control over what the the world does to us or wishes to do to us, but we do when it comes to what we do to ourselves. I tend to get amused when people say, as you have done, that "this happens everywhere in the world". I tend to hear that quite a lot from Kenyans when I denounce corruption in Kenya, and, invariably, the people I hear it from are far away from Kenya or very comfortable in Kenya. About 7 years ago, I decided to confirm what I thought would be the natural reaction to the average Kenyan to such a remark: When I was home, I asked about 100 Kenyans---YES, I really did---how they felt about corruption in the country. After they gave me the obvious answer, I told them not to worry, that these things happen all over the world. Their response, in several variations, was about the same: "How does that help us in our suffering here?". We could get into lengthy, academic discussions about how they don't see the "big global picture" yada yada yada, but I tend to see their point: they are Kenyans, living in Kenya, and the people shafting them are Kenyans living in Kenya. Why drag the rest of the world into it? Or, why not, at least, fix the immediate and local problem before worrying about the rest of the world. As for your cavalier attitude that "Human rights violation happens in every country in the world including Kenya but many countries choose to point fingers at each other": That may be so, but, and you may call me small-minded if you wish, much as I care about human rights all over the world, I special interest in Kenya. Terrible things have happened in our country, in the name of people getting into power, and I refuse to simply sweep it aside on the basis of what happens elsewhere: There were mass rapes, mass murders, mass displacement, ... [refer to the ICC charge sheet]. Women and children were burnt alive in a House of God. Men had their members crudely amputated. Etc. None of that had anything to do with other countries or with people living in those other countries. That was us doing very nasty things to each other. And at the rate at which we are cheering those deemed to be most responsible, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened again. That is why I tend to get surprised when most Kenyans I meet here want to talk about who will win the elections: I too think about the elections but mostly in terms of making plans to get some immediate family members out of the country if things go awry. I'm sure we'll get to the "big global picture" and "East/West" at some point, and we should continue to engage with them, but I would prefer it if we first focused on the following: 1. Food security. We can go on and on about intelligent and knowledgeable Kenyans, sovereign state, yada yada yada. But people do actually need to eat. Moreover, the rest of the world will never respect people who are happy to do very nasty things to each other but won't stop long enough to make sure they have something to eat. 2. Basic health. This is the 21st century, and you would be surprised at the number of Kenyans who die from, or whose health is affected by, easily preventable diseases. As a matter of fact, just having access to clean water would make enormous differences in health. 3. Basic education and access to information. Yes, you may beat me up for saying it, but this is the start to moving the unthinking, tribalistic sheep who are more than happy to simply go by what they year from the market on Wednesday afternoon or what they hear from the local manambas. 4. Personal security. Every time I visit home, I am astounded at how bad things have become. Even people I consider as middle-class (by Kenyan standards) have dogs and watchmen because someone is out to violently rob them. 5. Basic infrastructure. (We'll skip than the bad traffic policing that leads to hundreds off avoidable deaths on the road each year.) The road from the nearest town to my home-home is now worse than it was 30 years ago. And that's went it doesn't rain. As a matter of fact, people with good vehicles no longer drive on the road itself, as the potholes are too large and dangerous: they drive along the side of the road, or alternate from between left and right, regardless of the direction of travel. Whence the joke: "On which side of the road do people in X drive?" I will finish the list later .... Yes, I know people will say, "these things are so in other countries". True, but I am not very concerned with other countries. I am concerned with Kenya and the my Plan B country (where I now live). Let's first do the best that we can for ourselves, and then, and only then, proceed to blame the rest of the world for our predicament. After independent Jomo Kenyatta's was using segregation policy on Kenyans citizens favouring his ethnic tribe over the others. This kind of nepotism caused disparities among the other tribes and delayed the countries economic growth. His foot steps were followed by Arap Moi and now the current man in Statehouse Emilio Mwai Kibaki The Problem in Kenya is that there has been two ethnic groups which have had control over the economic and political superiority subduing other ethnicities and unless Kenyans address the historical injustices created after independence to the current date, I doubt whether there will be peace or proper economic development in Kenya. The economic power will always rest with a few Elite groups who control most of the large corporations & private industries and banks in Kenya, the ordinary Kenyan will slave away at minmum wages and their voices will never be heard. Kenyans are not lazy, un-intelligence or ignorant as you would like the world to think, how does one go against government controlled police force with orders to shoot and kill or Hired gangs sent to slaughter and kill innocent Kenyans who try to stand up to be heard and demanding their votes to be counted? I didn't hear you mention the current IDP issue or land issues in Kenya.. Do you think all those land grabbers should return the land stolen from the kenya citizens back? ( I mean the land acquired by falsehood after independence by some leaders including the late Jomo Kenyatta, followed by Moi and now Kibaki and all their cronies? How do you expect kenyans to fend for themselves, get involved in nation building when historic injustices have not been addressed even after the Ndungu Report? it has to start somewhere! most kenyans want the leaders to stop the impunity. the leaders that we have in place have been very ruthless towards kenyans citizens unleashing, tortured, imprisoned and killed for going against the government.. Who controls Botswana's big corporations? foreign entities the citizens of Botswana are no better than kenyans where most foreign corporation are in partnership with the top elite in the country.. the level playing field for ordinary kenyans citizens is none existant and that is what needs to be changed in order to move forward. It doesn't help when some kenyans are still in denial, until we understand and change the playing field economically and politically and not accept foreign aid attached with conditions, such as privatization, whereby the same government assets being privatized can only be bought by foreign entities in partnership with the few elites in the country who run the government and the private sector through their illegally acquired wealth through corruption then we will keep going back and forth. I still maintain that as kenyans we must look at the foreign polices put forward by other countries when it relates to our country, we don't exist in vacuum.. so lets start addressing issues that have affected our country by leaders who care less about the ordinary mwanainchi.. but are ready to sell our country including their soul to the highest bidder for $$$....in exchange for immunity after leaving office
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 21, 2012 4:05:13 GMT 3
Kenyans are not lazy, un-intelligence or ignorant as you would like the world to think, how does one go against government controlled police force with orders to shoot and kill or Hired gangs sent to slaughter and kill innocent Kenyans who try to stand up to be heard and demanding their votes to be counted? Brother: "Kenyans are not lazy, un-intelligence or ignorant". I know where this kind of emotional line is likely to lead to. i will try to avoid that. Every two weeks or so, I hear about a "prayer" rally, and, sure enough, very large numbers of people show up to cheer 2 people who have been charged with some of the most heinous crimes known to humanity. Is someone forcing them to be there? Is that what intelligent and informed people do? What's even more astonishing is that among the populace these 2 have enough support to be considered as serious candidates for the highest offices in the land. Intelligent and informed people? Actually, many of the people who did very nasty things during the 2007-2008 PEV were not police or hired gangs; they were "ordinary" folks consumed with tribal hatred and too sheepish in their thinking to do anything that follow their "leader". I know that's not the sort of reality than many people want to deal with, but there you have it. Get out of Jukwaa and take a look at some of the Kenyan internet forums, and you will truly despair at the mindless tribal hatred and "our man or death" mentality. And those are the ones who have gone to school. I didn't hear you mention the current IDP issue or land issues in Kenya.. Do you think all those land grabbers should return the land stolen from the kenya citizens back? ( I mean the land acquired by falsehood after independence by some leaders including the late Jomo Kenyatta, followed by Moi and now Kibaki and all their cronies?I stated that my list was to be continued ... I am starting with the most basic things: food, health, minimial education, etc. the leaders that we have in place have been very ruthless towards kenyans citizens unleashing, tortured, imprisoned and killed for going against the government..That is true and deplorable. Nevertheless, other than the obvious dictatorships, many of the "leaders" have been elected by the populace. And not just once. At some point there has to be individual responsibility in the exercise of democratic rights. Who controls Botswana's big corporations? foreign entities the citizens of Botswana are no better than kenyans where most foreign corporation are in partnership with the top elite in the country.. You are going "global" again. I really don't care who owns what in Botswana, nor do I care about who owns what in Kenya. (Purely on a personal level, I own very little, and I do not find that to be something that greatly affects my comfort or personal happiness.) What I do care about is that the citizens of a country, in this particular case Kenya, get to live decent, healthy, reasonably happy lives. A lot of African wealth is owned by Africans who have stolen it and stashed it overseas! And even when it is not stashed away, what good does it do their populace to know that "they" own it? People in Botswana have a functional goverment and a decent standard of living. Particularly relevant for us right now is the fact that they can have elections without engaging in the sort of mindless violence we have had in Kenya since 1992 and which reached a new high in the satanic orgies or 2007-2008. I still maintain that as kenyans we must look at the foreign polices put forward by other countries when it relates to our country, we don't exist in vacuum.. so lets start addressing issues that have affected our country by leaders who care less about the ordinary mwanainchi..I agree with you that we must look at foreign policies put forth by other countries. What I don't get is the rest of your sentence: you go from "other countries" to "our country by leaders". If you mean the leaders of those foreign countries, then the "jump" is sort of "sensible", but I have little to say in that regard: leaders of other countries see their first responsibility as their citizens. If you mean our leaders in Kenya, then I fail to see the connection. Regardless: (a) we pretty much got rid of our dictatorship a decade ago; (b) we are back to how Kenyans, in voting, exercise their democratic rights. Look, there is really no getting around it: at some point there has to be some level of individual responsibility, some awareness, some use of intelligence. Good leaders won't suddenly fall from the sky one day, and as long as the populace shows that it is happy to settle for crappy ones, that's exactly what it will keep getting. Getting rid of the Moi dictorship was a huge first step. It is a pity that it took 24 years of extreme punishment, but the point is that at the end the end of the day the people did it. Take a look at the ICC charge sheets: murder, rape, displacement, persecution, other inhumane acts. Then consider the "our hero" response the people being called to account for these crimes get when they go around the country. That would never happen in any of the countries that we beg (as usual) for food after we have (as usual) ignored the last drought, ignored the weather forecasts, and lost people to starvation. Therein lies the difference between those who beg and those who provide. Look, I know people are going to get all emotional about it and beat me up and whatever, but I will say it again: We need serious and sustained civic education to convert most of our populace from unthinking, tribalistic, follow-the-tribal-king sheep into fully aware citizens who can properly exercise their democratic rights. As I see it, there is simply no getting around that. Otherwise another 50 years of "independence" won't do us any good. In the meantime, go to a "prayer rally" and watch the "leaders" and the led pray for .... ?
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 21, 2012 4:26:14 GMT 3
Kenyans are not lazy, un-intelligence or ignorant as you would like the world to think, how does one go against government controlled police force with orders to shoot and kill or Hired gangs sent to slaughter and kill innocent Kenyans who try to stand up to be heard and demanding their votes to be counted? Brother: "Kenyans are not lazy, un-intelligence or ignorant". I know where this kind of emotional line is likely to lead to. i will try to avoid that. Every two weeks or so, I hear about a "prayer" rally, and, sure enough, very large numbers of people show up to cheer 2 people who have been charged with some of the most heinous crimes known to humanity. Is someone forcing them to be there? Is that what intelligent and informed people do? What's even more astonishing is that among the populace these 2 have enough support to be considered as serious candidates for the highest offices in the land. Intelligent and informed people? Actually, many of the people who did very nasty things during the 2007-2008 PEV were not police or hired gangs; they were "ordinary" folks consumed with tribal hatred and too sheepish in their thinking to do anything that follow their "leader". I know that's not the sort of reality than many people want to deal with, but there you have it. Get out of Jukwaa and take a look at some of the Kenyan internet forums, and you will truly despair at the mindless tribal hatred and "our man or death" mentality. And those are the ones who have gone to school. I didn't hear you mention the current IDP issue or land issues in Kenya.. Do you think all those land grabbers should return the land stolen from the kenya citizens back? ( I mean the land acquired by falsehood after independence by some leaders including the late Jomo Kenyatta, followed by Moi and now Kibaki and all their cronies?I stated that my list was to be continued ... I am starting with the most basic things: food, health, minimial education, etc. the leaders that we have in place have been very ruthless towards kenyans citizens unleashing, tortured, imprisoned and killed for going against the government..That is true and deplorable. Nevertheless, other than the obvious dictatorships, many of the "leaders" have been elected by the populace. And not just once. At some point there has to be individual responsibility in the exercise of democratic rights. Who controls Botswana's big corporations? foreign entities the citizens of Botswana are no better than kenyans where most foreign corporation are in partnership with the top elite in the country.. You are going "global" again. I really don't care who owns what in Botswana, nor do I care about who owns what in Kenya. (Purely on a personal level, I own very little, and I do not find that to be something that greatly affects my comfort or personal happiness.) What I do care about is that the citizens of a country, in this particular case Kenya, get to live decent, healthy, reasonably happy lives. A lot of African wealth is owned by Africans who have stolen it and stashed it overseas! And even when it is not stashed away, what good does it do their populace to know that "they" own it? People in Botswana have a functional goverment and a decent standard of living. Particularly relevant for us right now is the fact that they can have elections without engaging in the sort of mindless violence we have had in Kenya since 1992 and which reached a new high in the satanic orgies or 2007-2008. I still maintain that as kenyans we must look at the foreign polices put forward by other countries when it relates to our country, we don't exist in vacuum.. so lets start addressing issues that have affected our country by leaders who care less about the ordinary mwanainchi..I agree with you that we must look at foreign policies put forth by other countries. What I don't get is the rest of your sentence: you go from "other countries" to "our country by leaders". If you mean the leaders of those foreign countries, then the "jump" is sort of "sensible", but I have little to say in that regard: leaders of other countries see their first responsibility as their citizens. If you mean our leaders in Kenya, then I fail to see the connection. Regardless: (a) we pretty much got rid of our dictatorship a decade ago; (b) we are back to how Kenyans, in voting, exercise their democratic rights. Look, there is really no getting around it: at some point there has to be some level of individual responsibility, some awareness, some use of intelligence. Good leaders won't suddenly fall from the sky one day, and as long as the populace shows that it is happy to settle for crappy ones, that's exactly what it will keep getting. Getting rid of the Moi dictorship was a huge first step. It is a pity that it took 24 years of extreme punishment, but the point is that at the end the end of the day the people did it. Take a look at the ICC charge sheets: murder, rape, displacement, persecution, other inhumane acts. Then consider the "our hero" response the people being called to account for these crimes get when they go around the country. That would never happen in any of the countries that we beg (as usual) for food after we have (as usual) ignored the last drought, ignored the weather forecasts, and lost people to starvation. Therein lies the difference between those who beg and those who provide. Look, I know people are going to get all emotional about it and beat me up and whatever, but I will say it again: We need serious and sustained civic education to convert most of our populace from unthinking, tribalistic, follow-the-tribal-king sheep into fully aware citizens who can properly exercise their democratic rights. As I see it, there is simply no getting around that. Otherwise another 50 years of "independence" won't do us any good. In the meantime, go to a "prayer rally" and watch the "leaders" and the led pray for .... ? Did you address this issue? and why should anyone beat you up for stating your opinion? on jukwaa I thought everyone has freedom to state their views on international and local politic's kwani? The Kenya citizen tried to be heard many times but the rigging involved in politic's will not allow the citizens voices to be heard.. instead they use brute force to stay in power, so lets not gloss over the big issues that affect Kenyans when it comes to the elite political agenda in Kenya who control everything.. I wonder where you were in 2007-8 did it look or seem to you that the citizens of Kenya preferred the statuesque or was it forced on them through police and military force? or would you have preferred Kenyan citizens mowed down to death seeing that they were trying to have their voices heard and their votes counted? where exactly were you before, during and after the clashes of 2007-2008? seems that your view of Kenya and kenyans is certainly very different from mine.. I don't understand your isolation stand on not caring what happens around you and yet when i look around in Kenya the fact that the Diaspora are heavily investing in kenya speaks volumes on why the international & foreign entities matters, if those kenyans in the Diaspora only cared about themselves, without caring about what happens in their beloved country then kenya economy would not be booming, on the other hand if the foreign countries that you dismiss very easily didn't allow our citizens in to pursue jobs and education, how else would hundred thousands of Kenya help in nation building..we are in a global environment and we can't ignore entities good or bad that are involved in negative or positive way in our countries affairs, these same foreign entities that Kenya is indebted to that you casually dismiss in a big way or are you forgetting what kenya owes entities like IMF, world Bank e.t.c who controls them? if they decided to pull the plug our economy would crumble immediately. Tribalism was started during colonization pitching tribes against each other and continued after independence by the first leader of kenya Jomo Kenyatta, fata Nyayo "MOI" took the Rungu from Kenyatta and currently Kibaki is following in the same foot steps, and until this cancer is cured and historic injustices are correctly, where is the hope for the citizens of Kenya? Remove the weeds properly from the Shaba properly then you can plough and plant a healthy crop!!
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Post by wanyee on Mar 21, 2012 5:15:16 GMT 3
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 21, 2012 5:31:43 GMT 3
Brother reporter911: Other than to say that you appear to have misunderstood, I will say that I have written enough for today. You raise many points that require a lengthy response, and I cannot do so right now. I will do so in a day or two.
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 21, 2012 5:41:01 GMT 3
Brother/Sister wanyee:
The term "neo-colonialism" has been around for quite some time. When people first started waving it around, I thought it would lead to some insight that could then be used to improve our lot. As it turned, it has always been little more that an aid that certain types of egghead use in to indulge in intellectual self-pleasure. Not that there is anything wrong with self-pleasure, of any kind, but moderation is key in such.
Thanks for the link that you have posted. I will take a look at it in the next day or so. But in the meantime, may I ask a question: Let's ignore the fact that some countries that were at the same level as us 40-50 years ago have weaned themselves off "aid" and forged ahead of us. Instead, let us assume that the West (and now the East that we are warming up to) has decided/conspired/whatever to keep us "dependent" through "aid" and debt. What should we do about it?
(I am assuming that it won't work to simply go to them, "Please Stop!" or to expect them to suddenly decide to mend their ways.)
I know that mine is a crude and simplistic way of looking at things, but I prefer to think in terms of "here's a problem, what are the possible solutions" instead of endless pious hand-wringing. And when it comes to solutions, I prefer those that first involve what we can do before we assume the goodwill of others. Still, I am keen to hear of any answers to the question above.
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 21, 2012 18:06:06 GMT 3
On jobs at the ICC: Jukwaa readers may be interested to know that the ICC is currently hiring interpreters in Kiswahili, Kalenjin, Luo, Luhya, and Kikuyu. Otishotish ;D I commend you for being helpful to those Kenyans seeking for work waow!! translating English to mother tongue? tough for some of us ;D some might use sign language ;D
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 21, 2012 18:16:58 GMT 3
I meant to have that in another thread and have now moved it there. Anway, can't you koroga properly in your native language? ;D
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Post by wanyee on Mar 21, 2012 23:28:58 GMT 3
otishotish,
You wrote:
“...some countries that were at the same level as us 40-50 years ago have weaned themselves off ‘aid’ and forged ahead of us."
---
Might you be referring to the “Asian Tigers” by any chance?
(brother) Wanyee
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 22, 2012 1:03:07 GMT 3
otishotish, You wrote: “...some countries that were at the same level as us 40-50 years ago have weaned themselves off ‘aid’ and forged ahead of us." --- Might you be referring to the “Asian Tigers” by any chance? (brother) Wanyee Wanyee I enjoyed reading your informative post on Neo-Colonialism via the "debt crises" and i believe it points out some of Key issues that i was trying to get across here , debating the issues with otishotish and others is somehow enlightening, it actually makes one look closely into Kenya economic and Political agenda moving forward... confusion seems to be the name of the game...
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