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Post by roughrider on Apr 16, 2012 11:43:42 GMT 3
I’d like to remind all concerned that when Kibaki and any other government officials engage in diplomacy and make trips to foreign countries, they do so on behalf of the Kenyan people. Not for their own self-aggrandizement. It seems to me like personal feelings rather than the interests of Kenya are dictating national policy. Today’s Standard confirms the contention that Kibaki could not travel to Britain because he had no answers for uncomfortable questions about PEV, corruption, human rights etc. He was also miffed at the suggestion that there would be no ceremony for him; this is typical of African political leadership – petty, emotional and myopic. You would think it was Lucy Kibaki calling the shots at State House. www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000056364&cid=4¤tPage=1Just as we should not entertain dictators here, we should expect friendly countries to remind us of our obligations. This is diplomacy 101.
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Apr 16, 2012 12:16:57 GMT 3
:-[My friend, if you want an informed discourse, stop your condescending attitude. Investment and aid are two different things. The cold-war reference to the relationship between the West and Kenya is mainly in terms of aid. I think the picture is now fully focussed on investment. [/quote Half true. The cold war relationship with the west was also about ideology, trade, raw materials, contracts and markets. The situation is not fully focused on 'investment' as you call it. There is still significant aid, and trade. You lost yourself in patronising me! The cold war was a mainly about security, ideology was simply a cover up. Raw materials and markets were by-products. Developmental aid was a tool to enhance the security of the West in containing the effect of underdevelopment, stopping its consequence spilling over, drawn from 'biopolitics' which is a Faucaldian concept. Biopolitics is a regulatory power over the lives of those seen to be ‘undesirable’. It works on collective basis of ‘controlling’ those populations. To me, aid was and still is a means of dividing humankind against itself in the generic form of developed and underdeveloped. If you think Western aid is good for us, think again! The West are rarely offering 'investment'. ODM and Raila has constantly propagated the 'supremacy' of the West. The inclusion of the West in the Lamu project is by the insistence of Raila. China was ready to do it by themselves. It is no secret that some Western countries financially sustain ODM. In the arrangement, Raila gained 'advisors' from western institution to prompt his image, one a japanese with no track record. Raila seems to court Western satisfaction when he makes decision - example, he made his call for the arrest of Uhuru and Ruto in a visit to EU not at home maybe after he was told to say so. Furthermore, his silence on the 'investment' of China speaks volume. We need them for what they are good at, and that is infrastructure. Questions are asked, maybe it is you who is not listening to them. You may need to exercise your democratic right to inquire from your representative why he or she has not asked questions you deem fit. Payukaring ovyo ovyo has no basis. That is realpolitik, you can't accuse for underhand the chinese for seeking what is best for them. Generalisation will not stand - china is serious about their image and are keen to be seen to deliver their end of the bargain. We equally need to have put in place tough rules to guide their participation. That maybe so, but we must have self- confidence to stand for ourselves despite the constrains we find ourselves in due to past mis-governance. I am against the myopic worshipping of the west, diversity is the key, whether the west likes it or not. Fear has no place. Sometimes back Argentina refused to pay its debts, and went bankrupt. Today it is among the fastest growing economies in South America. I doubt if that is the case. Chinese are happy to play by the book. What I have seen from China has been prudence which I think we can learn from them.
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 17, 2012 2:46:21 GMT 3
I took a look at the "donors" that this story refers to and found that it is the West: www.nation.co.ke/News/Aids+medicine+stocks+run+low+as+donors+start+to+close+their+taps/-/1056/1387824/-/xnh7i0z/-/index.htmlSame for education (quite a bit of which money was eaten). Same for yellow maize that we always beg for every time we (as usual every 3 years) forget the last drought and people starve to death. Same for ... I am very much for Kibaki's turn to the East. He needs to be like Mugabe and show the West what's what. We have been begging endlessly from the West. Let the East have a turn. Then the Middle. Meanwhile we are too busy finishing ourselves. Here in Kenya we are too busy to concern ourselves with such trifles: we must work overtime to ensure that our man gets into State House so that we can eat. In 150 years, everyone and every tribe will have eaten. Then we can start to develop Kenya. Kazi iendelee. Vision 3020.
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Post by amadain on Apr 17, 2012 17:25:06 GMT 3
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 22, 2012 15:41:43 GMT 3
HERE IS JUKWAA TEACHING THE PORK'S AND PM'S OFFICE A THING OR 2! This Scott Gration of a diplomat is still a scumbug full of bullshit even if he farts frankincence like this: “The United States remains committed to being a reliable partner and to working with the Government of Kenya to ensure that the upcoming elections are transparent, free, fair, peaceful, and credible." A knowledge of actual American relations and practice with African dictators ---(from the propping up of neighbour M7 [as he stole elections and crushed the likes of Bessigye] to oilman Nguema and Brother Paul, the tough guy running the Tutsi fascist state,)-- tells anybody with a bit of critical thinking ambassador Scott has missed a wonderful opportunity to shut up! --in the new dispensation of vigorous and no nonsense emerging Kenya. And if he has to open his beak, he could start by explaining and offering an apology at his government's initial support for the Kibaki rigging in 2007. [Crap I call him below, because I happen to know the hierarchy and prestige of ambasadorial postings as experienced by State Department personel themselves classify Nairobi is a 'punishment' posting] Perhaps Afrika is the only place left where this kind of crap can say this kind of crap in public without blushing! I think this kind of later day Hempstone matches what Eugene Wamalwa only yesterday called 'leaders with their minds still living in yester years'!I will explain how I mean. RENDITION: The collusion of american security operatives in Kenya with our intelligence and police to kidnap Somali young men and, through Wilson airport, transport them to Somali for torture is recorded as late as this year. ( Robust interrogation techniques is what the americans call torture) This ambassador belongs to that epoch when natives were too intimidated to tell a vice-roy of the rot in his own house. Nowadays, you do not run torture camps in a lawless neighbouring country [not to mention Ethiopia and Djibouti] and pronounce yourself a reliable partner in the pursuit of justice! I call that scumbugging and bullshitting impunity! Give me another line! An example of how internationally this issue works was recorded on two summits concerning the Arab world. One over Libya, and another over Syria. The Turkish hosts, Abdullah Gul & Ahmet Dovutoglu, president and foreign respectively, irritably told Hillary Clinton to shut up about human rights. --Nobody in the middle east takes you americans seriously on human rights, Ahmet said. It is not just Palestine; your silence on Bahrein, Saudi Arabia, contineud support to Egyptian old millitary, Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo trashes you! And your shoot-to-kill policy which Obama now operates with impunity even on American citizens (though they have to be muslim) has made you irrelevant here. So do not waste our time with that old song! (--Try it in Afrika maybe!) Some here must have heard rumours Hillary nolonger wants to be secretary of state! Wanted the world bank job. Is looking for a change of career. Well, she has been shut up severally by allies in public, and felt humiliated and Diminshed. And that is for good measure in the changed world of shrinking american power, meseems. And that is the way I view this ambassador. A boisterous empty debe. President Uhuru and his side kick Odinga should diplomatically tell him off --( I know they wouldn't dare, but the inferiority complexes of Uhuru and Raila are no reflection of the feelings of dignity of awakening Kenya)-- thus: while we appreciate your colourful concerns for democracy in our country, we think it oversteps your diplomatic mandate as ambassador to lecture us in any way about it in public. The behaviour of American police departments using an instrument called taser with impunity especially on black males, should be a more urgent concern to your highness, just like the mass deaths of unarmed muslims perpetrated by your president of Kenyan origins, who has licenced unmanned drones to, over seas in muslim lands, unify all branches of the judiciary into one: execution. Where collateral damage even if mass murder of kids is acceptable. Diplomats from lands of such disreputable practices, should be the last to harangue us with the divinity of law and order and exceptional police forces! [ I Raila, and justice minister Wamalwa are already on record condemning this in sufficient terms, and promising action. We do not need you to further add insult to injury, as if we do not know, nor feel!]But of course, as one degenerate regime to a twin, we can jest, but in private please with plentiful champagne. But do not interfere with us in public. ------------- So an American ambassador who still thinks he can, devoid of appropriate humility, go about his vice-roy roles in Kenya without being called to order, is living in the past. The reality now is he need must convey his misgivings in private through the designed channels, and shut up in public, or he will be shut up! NB: the first fact-finder and fixer Hillary Clinton sent to Egypt as the Tahrir plein gathered momentum, was a man who was earlier an operative in Cairo and later a lawyer for the millitary establishment in their laundering of money in the West. It was when the Egyptian opposition described him as Hillary's old and rotten tampon, that it occured to the State Deparment they did not understand Egypt. it is important this one, Hillary's emissary to Kenya, understand the new reality, or he will be called that, too. Going rogue? The population went rogue long ago, only her politicians not yet! dear Kamalet!
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 22, 2012 17:23:53 GMT 3
HERE IS JUKWAA TEACHING THE PORK'S AND PM'S OFFICE A THING OR 2! This Scott Gration of a diplomat is still a scumbug full of bullshit even if he farts frankincence like this: “The United States remains committed to being a reliable partner and to working with the Government of Kenya to ensure that the upcoming elections are transparent, free, fair, peaceful, and credible." A knowledge of actual American relations and practice with African dictators ---(from the propping up of neighbour M7 [as he stole elections and crushed the likes of Bessigye] to oilman Nguema and Brother Paul, the tough guy running the Tutsi fascist state,)-- tells anybody with a bit of critical thinking ambassador Scott has missed a wonderful opportunity to shut up! --in the new dispensation of vigorous and no nonsense emerging Kenya. And if he has to open his beak, he could start by explaining and offering an apology at his government's initial support for the Kibaki rigging in 2007. [Crap I call him below, because I happen to know the hierarchy and prestige of ambasadorial postings as experienced by State Department personel themselves classify Nairobi is a 'punishment' posting] Perhaps Afrika is the only place left where this kind of crap can say this kind of crap in public without blushing! I think this kind of later day Hempstone matches what Eugene Wamalwa only yesterday called 'leaders with their minds still living in yester years'!I will explain how I mean. RENDITION: The collusion of american security operatives in Kenya with our intelligence and police to kidnap Somali young men and, through Wilson airport, transport them to Somali for torture is recorded as late as this year. ( Robust interrogation techniques is what the americans call torture) This ambassador belongs to that epoch when natives were too intimidated to tell a vice-roy of the rot in his own house. Nowadays, you do not run torture camps in a lawless neighbouring country [not to mention Ethiopia and Djibouti] and pronounce yourself a reliable partner in the pursuit of justice! I call that scumbugging and bullshitting impunity! Give me another line! An example of how internationally this issue works was recorded on two summits concerning the Arab world. One over Libya, and another over Syria. The Turkish hosts, Abdullah Gul & Ahmet Dovutoglu, president and foreign respectively, irritably told Hillary Clinton to shut up about human rights. --Nobody in the middle east takes you americans seriously on human rights, Ahmet said. It is not just Palestine; your silence on Bahrein, Saudi Arabia, contineud support to Egyptian old millitary, Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo trashes you! And your shoot-to-kill policy which Obama now operates with impunity even on American citizens (though they have to be muslim) has made you irrelevant here. So do not waste our time with that old song! (--Try it in Afrika maybe!) Some here must have heard rumours Hillary nolonger wants to be secretary of state! Wanted the world bank job. Is looking for a change of career. Well, she has been shut up severally by allies in public, and felt humiliated and Diminshed. And that is for good measure in the changed world of shrinking american power, meseems. And that is the way I view this ambassador. A boisterous empty debe. President Uhuru and his side kick Odinga should diplomatically tell him off --( I know they wouldn't dare, but the inferiority complexes of Uhuru and Raila are no reflection of the feelings of dignity of awakening Kenya)-- thus: while we appreciate your colourful concerns for democracy in our country, we think it oversteps your diplomatic mandate as ambassador to lecture us in any way about it in public. The behaviour of American police departments using an instrument called taser with impunity especially on black males, should be a more urgent concern to your highness, just like the mass deaths of unarmed muslims perpetrated by your president of Kenyan origins, who has licenced unmanned drones to, over seas in muslim lands, unify all branches of the judiciary into one: execution. Where collateral damage even if mass murder of kids is acceptable. Diplomats from lands of such disreputable practices, should be the last to harangue us with the divinity of law and order and exceptional police forces! [ I Raila, and justice minister Wamalwa are already on record condemning this in sufficient terms, and promising action. We do not need you to further add insult to injury, as if we do not know, nor feel!]But of course, as one degenerate regime to a twin, we can jest, but in private please with plentiful champagne. But do not interfere with us in public. ------------- So an American ambassador who still thinks he can, devoid of appropriate humility, go about his vice-roy roles in Kenya without being called to order, is living in the past. The reality now is he need must convey his misgivings in private through the designed channels, and shut up in public, or he will be shut up! NB: the first fact-finder and fixer Hillary Clinton sent to Egypt as the Tahrir plein gathered momentum, was a man who was earlier an operative in Cairo and later a lawyer for the millitary establishment in their laundering of money in the West. It was when the Egyptian opposition described him as Hillary's old and rotten tampon, that it occured to the State Deparment they did not understand Egypt. it is important this one, Hillary's emissary to Kenya, understand the new reality, or he will be called that, too. Going rogue? The population went rogue long ago, only her politicians not yet! dear Kamalet! nice touch!! ;D
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Post by kamalet on Apr 22, 2012 21:07:22 GMT 3
This story never seems to stop and the west may now need to sit up and ask when it started raining on them! www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/-/440808/1391228/-/m6sol5z/-/index.htmlthe message is quite clear here.... And when the German lady goes on to say – “when I look at the number of times I am contacted by members of the Kenyan Government for help on small projects and initiatives, I don’t know whether they go as much to the Chinese ambassador to seek help” – she is unwittingly answering her own question why China matters more to Kenya.
It is precisely because China doesn’t do those “small projects.” They prefer big stuff, which suits Africa better. It is Europe which has been left to specialise in “small things”.
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 22, 2012 21:58:13 GMT 3
For just one minute, I will take off my Kenyan hat and put on the Western-taxpayer one. OK, I am ready; here we go: We are tired of our taxes being used to try and help people who do not seem to show as much inclination to help themselves. We are tired of working hard to pay taxes that then end up in the Swiss bank accounts of the rich and powerful in Kenya. We are tired of being hit every two years for extra donations to help the starving whose own government don't seem to be bothered about but who nevertheles keep recycling the same knaves into government. And so on, and so forth, dot dot dot.
So, if Kenya has found that China is willing to step in and provide whatever the country needs, that is just fine by us. No need for big announcements and lengthy discussions. Just head straight to China, and close the door on the way out.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 23, 2012 11:33:23 GMT 3
For just one minute, I will take off my Kenyan hat and put on the Western-taxpayer one. OK, I am ready; here we go: We are tired of our taxes being used to try and help people who do not seem to show as much inclination to help themselves. We are tired of working hard to pay taxes that then end up in the Swiss bank accounts of the rich and powerful in Kenya. We are tired of being hit every two years for extra donations to help the starving whose own government don't seem to be bothered about but who nevertheles keep recycling the same knaves into government. And so on, and so forth, dot dot dot. So, if Kenya has found that China is willing to step in and provide whatever the country needs, that is just fine by us. No need for big announcements and lengthy discussions. Just head straight to China, and close the door on the way out. Otishotish .....and in the meantime I will stop seeking to see their president and also not complain when he refuses to see me..!
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 23, 2012 15:39:01 GMT 3
Ndugu Kamalet: In the last year we have managed to reclaim some of our aid money that was simply being eaten; I expect our ambassador to continue pressing Kibaki to return the rest. Moreover, we are still owed billions in borrowed money, and we want to make sure that we'll get it back; perhaps Kibaki can borrow from China and repay us? We also need to talk to him about the PEV and the ICC. First, we'd like to see justice for the victims. Sovereignty does not mean African "leaders" have a right to slaughter Africans; it's about human rights, not African rights. Second, we don't want a repeat, nor do we want Kibaki and the Masters of Impunity who control him to plunge the country into chaos as a way to make an Article 16 request. Not only will we have to clean the mess, but we note that to this day we are still blamed for not acting quickly enough to stop the Rwandan genocide.
So, all in all, I expect our ambassador to be banging on Kibaki's door, demanding to be let in and set him straight. And he should certainly complain if Kibaki tries to dodge the unpleasant but necessary message.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 23, 2012 16:24:53 GMT 3
Ndugu Kamalet: In the last year we have managed to reclaim some of our aid money that was simply being eaten; I expect our ambassador to continue pressing Kibaki to return the rest. Moreover, we are still owed billions in borrowed money, and we want to make sure that we'll get it back; perhaps Kibaki can borrow from China and repay us? We also need to talk to him about the PEV and the ICC. First, we'd like to see justice for the victims. Sovereignty does not mean African "leaders" have a right to slaughter Africans; it's about human rights, not African rights. Second, we don't want a repeat, nor do we want Kibaki and the Masters of Impunity who control him to plunge the country into chaos as a way to make an Article 16 request. Not only will we have to clean the mess, but we note that to this day we are still blamed for not acting quickly enough to stop the Rwandan genocide. So, all in all, I expect our ambassador to be banging on Kibaki's door, demanding to be let in and set him straight. And he should certainly complain if Kibaki tries to dodge the unpleasant but necessary message. "All I want to hear is roads....roads...roads. I have no time for anything else so if you are coming to talk to me about roads, then my door is wide open! For now my people have priorities that will not be helped by discussions of PEV and ICC!" The problem as you can see is that the ambassador is only left to whine whilse he fails to address a key engagement point!
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 23, 2012 22:17:33 GMT 3
Ndugu Kamalet: I hear you on the roads. We could, for example, do with a 4 or 6 lane dual carriageway from Mombasa to Nairobi and from Nairobi, through Kisumu, all the way to Busia. But why spend money on such critical roads when the one to Thika or Othaya or wherever needs to be done?
Yes, the people certainly have priorities: clean water and basic sanitation, reasonable standards of health (it's the 21st century and jiggers are finishing people on that very super highway!!), endless corruption, high youth unemployment, .... and many other things for which we taxpayers here have been contributing aid year after year, forever. (No Chinese.) But why worry about such minor things when there are roads to Thika and wherever to be built. By the Chinese.
I repeat: give us back our money, let the Chinese take over, and stop finishing each other, and we won't bother you. Kenya is undoubtedly very important to Kenya, but for the taxpayers here it's only about vistas of game, decent coffee, and some interesting runners. That's actually not that huge of a big deal to us, which is why Kenyans should start to take care of Kenya, instead of thinking somebody else is sufficiently concerned to make it his or her job.
Having given the mind of my other compatriots, I will now put on my Kenyan hat again. In particular because I want to tell you this: they have caught your boy, Uhuru, and he will be off for 30-to-life. Accept that instead of continuing to ruin your mind with all sorts of nonsense and foolish hope. That will be difficult, but in the long run you will feel better for it.
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 24, 2012 20:03:57 GMT 3
Ndugu Kamalet: I hear you on the roads. We could, for example, do with a 4 or 6 lane dual carriageway from Mombasa to Nairobi and from Nairobi, through Kisumu, all the way to Busia. But why spend money on such critical roads when the one to Thika or Othaya or wherever needs to be done? Yes, the people certainly have priorities: clean water and basic sanitation, reasonable standards of health (it's the 21st century and jiggers are finishing people on that very super highway!!), endless corruption, high youth unemployment, .... and many other things for which we taxpayers here have been contributing aid year after year, forever. (No Chinese.) But why worry about such minor things when there are roads to Thika and wherever to be built. By the Chinese. I repeat: give us back our money, let the Chinese take over, and stop finishing each other, and we won't bother you. Kenya is undoubtedly very important to Kenya, but for the taxpayers here it's only about vistas of game, decent coffee, and some interesting runners. That's actually not that huge of a big deal to us, which is why Kenyans should start to take care of Kenya, instead of thinking somebody else is sufficiently concerned to make it his or her job. Having given the mind of my other compatriots, I will now put on my Kenyan hat again. In particular because I want to tell you this: they have caught your boy, Uhuru, and he will be off for 30-to-life. Accept that instead of continuing to ruin your mind with all sorts of nonsense and foolish hope. That will be difficult, but in the long run you will feel better for it. Otishotish,Are you by any means suggesting Kibaki should go rogue against the political culture of ineptitude and self-defeating policies!? That would be loosing his birthright, the worst thing that can happen to old man well on his way to Chiolu! [sunset].
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Apr 29, 2012 19:22:59 GMT 3
I came across an interest concept which I believe could explain the shenanigans of the West in their handling of Kenya. It is called 'human security'. And one of its progeny is creation of the ICC and its influence on conflict resolution/management. Time does not allow - I will endeavour to explain further next time.
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 29, 2012 22:36:17 GMT 3
I came across an interest concept which I believe could explain the shenanigans of the West in their handling of Kenya. It is called 'human security'. And one of its progeny is creation of the ICC and its influence on conflict resolution/management. Time does not allow - I will endeavour to explain further next time. Google will readily supply any number of "interesting concepts", according to ones beliefs---just type in the right keywords. So why not have one more? Ready when you are. For me, the most "interesting concept" is that the ICC has got High and Mighty of Kenya by the small ones and is squeezing hard. What's more, no amount of payukaring will change that.
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Apr 29, 2012 22:48:45 GMT 3
I came across an interest concept which I believe could explain the shenanigans of the West in their handling of Kenya. It is called 'human security'. And one of its progeny is creation of the ICC and its influence on conflict resolution/management. Time does not allow - I will endeavour to explain further next time. Google will readily supply any number of "interesting concepts", according to ones beliefs---just type in the right keywords. So why not have one more? Ready when you are. For me, the most "interesting concept" is that the ICC has got High and Mighty of Kenya by the small ones and is squeezing hard. What's more, no amount of payukaring will change that. I wonder why you are trying very hard to attract my attention b throwing stones at me?
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Post by moesha on May 6, 2012 19:31:12 GMT 3
I came across an interest concept which I believe could explain the shenanigans of the West in their handling of Kenya. It is called 'human security'. And one of its progeny is creation of the ICC and its influence on conflict resolution/management. Time does not allow - I will endeavour to explain further next time. Google will readily supply any number of "interesting concepts", according to ones beliefs---just type in the right keywords. So why not have one more? Ready when you are. For me, the most "interesting concept" is that the ICC has got High and Mighty of Kenya by the small ones and is squeezing hard. What's more, no amount of payukaring will change that. OtishOtishHahahe, I hope you didnt bait Sadik into this and caused his premature demise from the forum. If indeed the high and mighty believe that the ICC is a creation of the West as per Sadik, then it explains why they are working overtime to try and pull a Bashir. What an "interesting concept." ;D
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Post by OtishOtish on May 6, 2012 20:00:09 GMT 3
Google will readily supply any number of "interesting concepts", according to ones beliefs---just type in the right keywords. So why not have one more? Ready when you are. For me, the most "interesting concept" is that the ICC has got High and Mighty of Kenya by the small ones and is squeezing hard. What's more, no amount of payukaring will change that. OtishOtishHahahe, I hope you didnt bait Sadik into this and caused his premature demise from the forum. If indeed the high and mighty believe that the ICC is a creation of the West as per Sadik, then it explains why they are working overtime to try and pull a Bashir. What an "interesting concept." ;D Definitely a sad dik. ;D
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Post by jakaswanga on May 6, 2012 21:08:17 GMT 3
otishotish, That was off! a tiff slip of the pen is!
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