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Post by merlin on May 12, 2012 18:56:54 GMT 3
Kenya governed by an illegal parliament.The 100 plus party hoppers should lose their seat and be expelled from parliament today under the existing laws to prevent them to change the law. Anyway, any current decisions of parliament involving one or more of the party hoppers are illegal and void as they are made by illegal members of parliament. merlin. IEBC chairman Issack Hassan is upset by the "political immorality" of MPs who abandon the parties that sponsored them to Parliament or local authorities and join new ones without seeking a fresh mandate from the electorate. "We have asked the Attorney General for his view on when a politician is deemed to have defected and whose responsibility it is to enforce the Political Parties Act," said Hassan. The chairman said the IEBC was determined to restore discipline in political parties as an integral part of a free, fair and peaceful general election. Article 14 of the Political Parties Act bars a person from being a member of more than one political party at the same time. Read The Star: www.the-star.co.ke/national/national/75341-iebc-wants-100-seats-declared-vacant-I am not an expert in law and do not know if party hopping is political immoral. I even did not know that politics has morals. What I do know is that most of the MPs are elected for their personality. Not many people vote for the party the MP represent and least for the party manifesto. They vote for their MP because she/he made promises to his voters. They do not mind which party their MP liaise to as long as the promises are fulfilled. People often follow their MP when she/he changes to another party. The MP is their representative in parliament and when the MP loses his seat these people are disfranchised from government and the possibility to get the promises fulfilled. The MP is firstly the representative of the people and only secondly the representative of the party. I think it will be unfair for the voters if he loses his seat when changing of party.
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euonyi
Full Member
Me, myself and I
Posts: 179
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Post by euonyi on May 12, 2012 21:50:27 GMT 3
In some cases, they vote in a fellow because a certain Presidential Candidate was behind him. In party hopping, he abandons that presidential candidate who supported him and generally many of his constituents would want him out. So it is not always the case that Party Hopping should not lead to a by-election: in some cases it definitely should: they voted ODM in my constituency and it did not really matter who was the one who got the ticket. What mattered was that the ODM candidate wins. So if he hops out of ODM, I dont see my constituents happy in bed with him in his new house. NO SIR! (or is it Ma'am!)
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Post by job on May 14, 2012 4:50:55 GMT 3
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Post by mwalimumkuu on May 14, 2012 6:11:55 GMT 3
This is a hot potato that no one wants to deal with, not even the political parties themselves want to take it head-on.
That is why they are skirting around it and pointing fingers, they would rather play to the gallery than do the right thing.
It is a can of warms or rather the proverbial mtego wa panya with the potential of bringing this coalition government down.
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Post by merlin on May 14, 2012 18:07:58 GMT 3
Questions
Is the anarchy by which our law makers deal with Kenya coming to an end?Kenya is not without law it has a Constitution and Political Parties Act so where are the law enforcement functionaries to bring this anarchy to a halt? Last week the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission has written to Attorney General to find out if they can declare vacant the seats of MPs who have switched parties and today Prime Minister Raila Odinga’s supporters have moved to court to compel MPs who have ditched their political parties to resign from Parliament. Read The Nation: www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Group+wants+court+to+compel+defecting+MPs+vacate+seats/-/1064/1405568/-/2yfl17z/-/index.htmlThough what will happen to Parliament if the defecting MP’s are send for re-election, especially the position of Prime Minister? How will the political power balance change in the August house and what does it mean for Cabinet positions?
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Post by fredmalulu on May 15, 2012 8:54:27 GMT 3
hii ni mchezo wa paka na panya, paka akitoka panya hutawala.....tawala kenya tawala, tawala kenya tawala ________________ tawala kenya tawala..
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Post by mwalimumkuu on May 15, 2012 18:36:10 GMT 3
hii ni mchezo wa paka na panya, Couldn't have been any closer to the truth. The registrar finally explains herself, and seems to agree with the position that some of us have held all along. Notice that, Onyonka, who happens to be in bed with ODM is one of the MPs who the registrar had written to the speaker to declare his seat vacant, yet you have ODM in court crying fowl over its MPs working with other parties. Talk of hypocrisy. ~~~~ NAIROBI, Kenya, May 15 – The Registrar of Political Parties Lucy Ndung’u now says that she has played her part in ensuring discipline in political parties. She said that the Political Parties Act was clear in section 14 (7) on the expulsion of members from parties which was not the role of the Registrar.
Section 14(7) of the Act provides that: “A member of a political party may only be expelled from that political party if the member has infringed the constitution of the political party and after the member has been afforded a fair opportunity to be heard in accordance with the internal party disputes resolution mechanisms as prescribed in the constitution of the party.”
“It is not for the Registrar to discipline the members of parties, it is the function of the parties. Parties are simply failing to call to order their organs. When a church is unhappy with the conduct of its members the Registrar of Societies does not deal with that member, it is the church that decides on what to do about that member,” said the officer exonerating the Registrar. The officers insisted that Ndung’u had been willing to assist parties that had followed their disciplinary organs in dealing with wayward members and had written to the National Assembly Speaker on two occasions seeking that the Speaker declares the respective seats vacant.Among the cases the officer cited which the Registrar had cleared include that of Makadara MP Mike Mbuvi who was saved by a court order that stopped his expulsion from NARK- Kenya.
The other is the case of assistant minister for Foreign Affairs Richard Onyonka was also saved by a court order after the registrar had written to Speaker Kenneth Marende.The source however declined to produce copies of the said letters citing confidentiality of the office to the individual political parties. Mathira MP Ephraim Maina also went to the High Court and got orders stopping his Safina party from expelling him for violating the Political Parties Act and his party constitution. On Monday, Prime Minister Raila Odinga’s supporters moved to court to compel MPs who have ditched the political party to resign from Parliament. The Friends of Raila lobby wants the court to order the Registrar of Political Parties to write to the Speaker of the National Assembly to declare the parliamentary seats held by such MPs vacant. They contend that the Registrar’s failure to take action against the MPs is a violation of the Constitution and the Political Parties Act. The Orange Democratic Movement has had a fair share of exodus as former Deputy party leaders Musalia Mudavadi and William Ruto have led tens of MPs allied to them in ditching ODM for United Democratic Forum (UDF) and the United Republican Party (URP) respectively. www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2012/05/parties-must-put-their-houses-in-order-registrar/
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Post by jakaswanga on May 15, 2012 19:42:04 GMT 3
People often follow their MP when she/he changes to another party. [/b] The MP is firstly the representative of the people and only secondly the representative of the party. I think it will be unfair for the voters if he loses his seat when changing of party.[/quote] A party is an organization. And organized forms are better effectors of policy. If one does not want to be bound by her constraints, one chooses to be an independent, and run his campaign and candidacy as such. We can not deny party waves during elections, and many politicians ride the waves in their localities. A man can not just wake up one day in parliament and denounce his party --yet maintain his seat, claiming he now is INDEPENDENT! That is eating your cake and having it! iF people will follow him anywhere, let him start BEING INDEPENDENT FROM THE BEGINNING! Otherwise just let them stop BEING PRETENDERS AND OPPORTUNISTS!
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Post by tnk on May 15, 2012 20:18:56 GMT 3
People often follow their MP when she/he changes to another party. [/b] The MP is firstly the representative of the people and only secondly the representative of the party. I think it will be unfair for the voters if he loses his seat when changing of party.[/quote] A party is an organization. And organized forms are better effectors of policy. If one does not want to be bound by her constraints, one chooses to be an independent, and run his campaign and candidacy as such. We can not deny party waves during elections, and many politicians ride the waves in their localities. A man can not just wake up one day in parliament and denounce his party --yet maintain his seat, claiming he now is INDEPENDENT! That is eating your cake and having it! iF people will follow him anywhere, let him start BEING INDEPENDENT FROM THE BEGINNING! Otherwise just let them stop BEING PRETENDERS AND OPPORTUNISTS! [/quote] that is an excellent response jakaswanga what these MPs who defect on reaching parliament are doing is called deceit
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Post by phil on May 15, 2012 20:32:45 GMT 3
Couldn't have been any closer to the truth. The registrar finally explains herself, and seems to agree with the position that some of us have held all along. Notice that, Onyonka, who happens to be in bed with ODM is one of the MPs who the registrar had written to the speaker to declare his seat vacant, yet you have ODM in court crying fowl over its MPs working with other parties. Talk of hypocrisy. mwalimumkuu
You are mixing up issues and the registrar is definitely playing political games for the benefit of known people. She has been moving the goal posts on this issue since 2010. Lucy Ndungu is openly and shamelessly subverting the law. The ODM & PNU did appoint members of other political parties into cabinet in a lose coalition arrangement. These individuals did not defect for them to be appointment members of cabinet. The issue here is party loyalty. We have a law that provides one cannot be a member of two parties at the same time unless those parties have a coalition arrangement. ODM does not have a coalition arrangement with URP. Neither does it have an arrangement with UDF. That is why William Ruto and surrogates decided to fight their proposed expulsion from the ODM partyThat is why also Ngilu is a member of NARC yet she serves in cabinet at the pleasure of ODM. It seems to me only Lucy Ndungu is not aware that Ruto first moved UDM and then after failing to take it over decided to establish URP. Cyrus Jirongo's case is even more bizarre because he is the party leader of KADDU and its sole MP, yet Lucy Ndungu expects Jirongo to convene a NEC meeting to here disciplinary proceedings against himself for promoting URP! ODM would rather lose in the ensuing elections rather than continue having MPs enjoying party cover whilst they are promoting the political interests of another party that is in competition with ODM.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on May 16, 2012 7:17:20 GMT 3
You are mixing up issues and the registrar is definitely playing political games for the benefit of known people. She has been moving the goal posts on this issue since 2010. Lucy Ndungu is openly and shamelessly subverting the law. The ODM & PNU did appoint members of other political parties into cabinet in a lose coalition arrangement. These individuals did not defect for them to be appointment members of cabinet. The issue here is party loyalty. We have a law that provides one cannot be a member of two parties at the same time unless those parties have a coalition arrangement. ODM does not have a coalition arrangement with URP. Neither does it have an arrangement with UDF. That is why William Ruto and surrogates decided to fight their proposed expulsion from the ODM partyThat is why also Ngilu is a member of NARC yet she serves in cabinet at the pleasure of ODM. It seems to me only Lucy Ndungu is not aware that Ruto first moved UDM and then after failing to take it over decided to establish URP. Cyrus Jirongo's case is even more bizarre because he is the party leader of KADDU and its sole MP, yet Lucy Ndungu expects Jirongo to convene a NEC meeting to here disciplinary proceedings against himself for promoting URP! ODM would rather lose in the ensuing elections rather than continue having MPs enjoying party cover whilst they are promoting the political interests of another party that is in competition with ODM. PhilIt is actually you, who is mixing up issues here. You have failed to sieve out the roles, liberties and jurisdictions of individual parties within the coalition. If you read through the attachment to the IEBC you provided above and especially the last bullet, which states: Therefore if a member is expelled, removed or suspended, the party should give notice to the Registrar to strike off the member’s name from the party register. This member after such measures are taken becomes party less. The office of the Registrar therefore has to be informed by the party of any breach of the Political Parties Act for action.You realize that the registrar has been all along very consistent in her arguments that it is the political parties that have to clean their own houses and inform her of their decision by way of minutes and resolutions. Matters of law are never dealt with in political rallies and/or through hear-says. As far as I am concerned, no any other party apart from NARK-K, Safina and PDP has followed the laid procedure as above. As far as those three go, the registrar took action, but the concerned parties went to court, and the cases are still pending there. Why has your party refused to follow this procedure? Why call press conferences and issue threats yet fail to forward the party resolutions to the registrar's office to kick the MPs out? You must have noted that the party, as late as April 2012, forwarded the names of William Ruto and the rest of the URP crew to the same registrar as its members. So you have a party that complains everyday that Ruto and co have left and need to be kicked out, yet when they have a chance to demonstrate just that, they do the exact opposite. I mean, who is fooling who here? On the issue of coalitions, I agree with you that MPs were nominated to the cabinet by their various partners at election time. But we cannot forget that these partners still exist as independent parties and drew their cooperation based on very clear guidelines and understandings. PDP, to which Onyonka belonged and was a partner of ODM in the elections, has since through its party organs severed links with ODM. They went ahead and notified Onyonka that his position as an assistant minister through ODM was no longer tenable as the party ceased working with ODM. When he refused to cut his links with ODM, PDP suspended and excommunicated him from the party and notified the registrar of the same. The registrar in turn wrote to the speaker to declare this seat vacant. Marende is his usual element when it comes to matters ODM, he dillydallied on issuing writs, Onyonka went to court where the case is still pending. In the meantime, he still serves as Assistant Minister and works with ODM. www.standardmedia.co.ke/archives/InsidePage.php?id=1144027056&cid=4&story=Party%20suspends%20minister%20over%20links%20with%20ODMwww.kisii.com/the-news/932-speaker-to-make-ruling-on-minister-onyonkas-party-sagaOne must therefore wonder, why ODM would be comfortable keeping MPs from other parties yet uncomfortable with their MPs who associate with other parties? I mean, either ODM is very confused or they are simply playing games. Look at the Mudavadi issue; your party has simply failed to discipline him, they are instead advising the PM to appoint another DPM over and above Mudavadi. You tell me, just how can that be achieved under the law as established Bw. Phil? Yet in your characteristic whining and finger pointing, you still want to blame the registrar for everything that is wrong in your party. You see my friend, when we pay a lot of attention to these political conmen, we let go our own capacities to interrogate some of these things. But as you can see, they are very easy matters that we can easily educate ourselves about.
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Post by phil on May 16, 2012 12:20:11 GMT 3
@ Mwalimumtukutu I will come back to you. Meanwhile look at this alarmist report: Raila Odinga Takes a Risky Step in Kenya, Security Fears Mount May 15 | Posted by David Goldman | Crime Intelligence, Intelligence News
Kenya is likely to face a ethnic torpedo if Prime Minister Odinga does not reverse his anti-regime backers onslaught.
With a lobby heralded by former Kenya Human Rights Commission executive Omar Hassan seeking the exit of 100 MP’s from their parliamentary offices, the high stakes game might crumble on Odinga besides sink the country to ethnic violence.
Intelligence analyzed and produced by Strategic Intelligence shows the political direction taken by most of Odinga followers heads to a war path and rough.
Two scenarios are playing out fast and each elicits ethnic emotions which are dangerous to Kenya’s socio-economic progress.
Odinga’s purge to have 100 members of parliament seek re-election could dig out the shallow grave of 2007-2008 election violence with new alliances turning against Odinga’s own community.
100 by-elections with most of them in the same areas where violence manifested is dangerous and risky to undertake.
Odinga’s advisers and friends intents are a threat to national security for they represent a minority objective hence likely to procure a majority reaction with a negative intent in retaliation.
The other scenario playing out is the motion of no confidence in Odinga as a premier. His numbers in parliament cannot push a motion through let alone stop a censure motion against him.
In parliament Odinga has no stake and only manages a day by the moment signaling an end to his influential era in parliament.
Odinga faces immense turbulence in the coming political days with his ouster as premier very likely besides his South Rift and Luo-Luhya Support becoming a hot bed for violence if political undertones are not managed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2012 19:13:26 GMT 3
If later the court rules that the mps who have since joined other parties (100 +) should have resigned and sort new mandates; then it means they illegaly earned money --by fraudulent means, from the date they changed sides. This opens the way for a legal challenge to recover the money --back to the taxpayer, with interest. So they should beware that while Lucy is letting them ride, it is a knife which could cut both ways. The mater is in litigation and the courts should rule against them based on the expectation that it was their responsibility to know the law. And it's not like people haven't been telling them that they need to resign and seek new mandates. dah!
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Post by tnk on May 16, 2012 20:50:33 GMT 3
If later the court rules that the mps who have since joined other parties (100 +) should have resigned and sort new mandates; then it means they illegaly earned money --by fraudulent means, from the date they changed sides. This opens the way for a legal challenge to recover the money --back to the taxpayer, with interest. So they should beware that while Lucy is letting them ride, it is a knife which could cut both ways. The mater is in litigation and the courts should rule against them based on the expectation that it was their responsibility to know the law. And it's not like people haven't been telling them that they need to resign and seek new mandates. dah! awesome i hope the courts make a sound ruling and somewhere in there Ndungu should also get sent home
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2012 22:27:30 GMT 3
If later the court rules that the mps who have since joined other parties (100 +) should have resigned and sort new mandates; then it means they illegaly earned money --by fraudulent means, from the date they changed sides. This opens the way for a legal challenge to recover the money --back to the taxpayer, with interest. So they should beware that while Lucy is letting them ride, it is a knife which could cut both ways. The mater is in litigation and the courts should rule against them based on the expectation that it was their responsibility to know the law. And it's not like people haven't been telling them that they need to resign and seek new mandates. dah! awesome i hope the courts make a sound ruling and somewhere in there Ndungu should also get sent home ya, ya, ya tnk! today you must have mistaken me for jakaswanga. wrong Kenyan. wink wink. ( my smiley don't work here at Jukwaa)
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Post by roughrider on May 17, 2012 9:57:22 GMT 3
Musalia Mudavadi, speaking to ODM leaders at KCB Karen on 12th January 2012, made a passionate plea against party hopping:
Reading through Mudavadi's speeches and statements, and looking at him today, one witnesses hypocrisy and contradiction in real time. Incredulous!
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Post by mwalimumkuu on May 17, 2012 16:00:44 GMT 3
Musalia Mudavadi, speaking to ODM leaders at KCB Karen on 12th January 2012, made a passionate plea against party hopping:Reading through Mudavadi's speeches and statements, and looking at him today, one witnesses hypocrisy and contradiction in real time. Incredulous! RR, We all know what happened. Mudavadi lived by this measure, he remained loyal and even when your people pushed him, he tried to come through the front door but they still said no. Now all this is water under the bridge. Let us not engage in assassinating this man's character. Wish him well and let him be instead of following him around like bad smell (in 'late' Sadik's words).
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Post by adongo23456 on May 18, 2012 0:10:56 GMT 3
Well folks it looks like the rubber is close to the road. Here we go: www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000058377&pageNo=1And now they are crying. Oh there is no money for by-elections. Oh this will polarize the country. Talk about idiocy. Time to bring out the sledge hammer.
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Post by merlin on May 18, 2012 18:17:45 GMT 3
Well folks it looks like the rubber is close to the road. Here we go: www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000058377&pageNo=1And now they are crying. Oh there is no money for by-elections. Oh this will polarize the country. Talk about idiocy. Time to bring out the sledge hammer. Award Winning CommentI consider the award winning comment is from Kinangop MP David Ngugi of the Sisi Kwa Sisi party who said; "there would be no crisis since Parliament can amend the law anytime to prevent paralysis. I don't foresee any trouble since as a Parliament; we can change the law and allow party hopping or vote for money for the by-elections." Read The Standard www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000058377&story_title=Defections%20could%20be%20costly
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Post by mwalimumkuu on May 18, 2012 18:31:34 GMT 3
Well folks it looks like the rubber is close to the road. Here we go: www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000058377&pageNo=1And now they are crying. Oh there is no money for by-elections. Oh this will polarize the country. Talk about idiocy. Time to bring out the sledge hammer. Award Winning CommentI consider the award winning comment is from Kinangop MP David Ngugi of the Sisi Kwa Sisi party who said; "there would be no crisis since Parliament can amend the law anytime to prevent paralysis. I don't foresee any trouble since as a Parliament; we can change the law and allow party hopping or vote for money for the by-elections." Read The Standard www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000058377&story_title=Defections%20could%20be%20costlyI totally understand where the man is coming from. Some of these things only provide opportunity for out leaders to shout at each other without anything in return for us. For beginners, the chapter that deals with this issue is frozen, dead until March 4 2013, in addition, the parties themselves have refused to play their role in stemming the vise. Kenyans are stuck with party hoping till after next election.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on May 19, 2012 1:30:33 GMT 3
Just read Dr. Koki Muli's opinion piece in the standard on this issue and she pretty much agrees with what we've been saying here all along albeit with the clarity of a lawyer that some og us lack. I am unable to post it now, if anyone can, please go ahead and post it. Its quite an informative piece.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on May 20, 2012 7:09:53 GMT 3
This is what I was talking about above: Opinion Read the law before taking party hoppers to court Read the law before taking party hoppers to courtBy Koki Muli It is not easy to determine whether hopping from one political party to another is after all an offence that should be prosecuted despite the provisions of the Political Parties Act (PPA) to criminalise the act. Article 38 of the Constitution provides that every citizen is free to make political choices, which include the right to form, or participate in forming, a political party; to participate in the activities of, or recruit members for, a political party; or to campaign for a political party or cause. Article 81 provides the electoral system shall comply with the freedom of citizens to exercise their political rights under Article 38. These two articles read together and in the spirit of the Constitution (the supreme law) provide for unfettered political rights, while the PPA, which is subject to and cannot contradict the Constitution criminalises party hopping. Also, the Political Parties Tribunal established by the PPA should resolve political party disputes. Article 14 of PPA provides that a person shall not be a member of more than one political party at the same time; that a member of a political party who intends to resign from it shall give a written notice to the political party; the Clerk of the relevant House of Parliament, (for Members of Parliament – MP); or to the clerk of a county assembly, (for members of county assembly). In this case, the resignation shall take effect upon receipt of such notice and the relevant recipient of such notice shall notify the Registrar of Political Party of such resignation. The same article provides that a person is deemed to have resigned from a party if that person – forms another political party; joins in the formation of another political party; joins another political party; in any way/manner, publicly advocates for the formation of another political party; or promotes the ideology, interests or policies of another political party. However, a member of a political coalition can publicly advocate for the formation of a coalition or merger; or promote the ideology, interests or policies of another political party within the coalition/merger of the parties to the coalition/merger and will not be deemed to have resigned from the previous political party and cannot lose their elective seat. In addition, article 11(7) of the PPA provides that if a political party merges or forms a coalition and a member/official doesn’t want to stay, they are free to join any other party or remain independent without any consequence. Therefore, members of the political parties within the Grand Coalition can hop from party to party within the coalition. However, if a member of a political party in the coalition forms or joins another party; then according to the PPA, that member will be deemed to have resigned. The PPA also provides that a member of a political party may only be expelled from that party if the member has infringed the constitution of the political party and after being afforded a fair opportunity to be heard in accordance with the internal party disputes resolution mechanisms as prescribed in the constitution of the political party. Also, a person who suppresses or attempts to suppress any lawful political activity of another person commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be liable to a fine not exceeding Sh1 million or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to both. Therefore, if a member is deemed to have resigned from a political party and does not write a letter of resignation, it is up to the aggrieved party to initiate the mechanisms to kick that member out and after going through the process as prescribed by the law, to write to the Registrar of political parties to initiate the process of a by-election where relevant. Therefore, political parties should not clog the courts with applications unnecessarily. The writer is an elections and constitutional law expert and lecturer, South Eastern University College standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000058415
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Post by jakaswanga on May 20, 2012 15:19:25 GMT 3
A bill will be put to parlimanet to strike off the sections which prevent party hopping, and too, the ones which would declare the seat party hopper vacant. recidivism thus.
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Post by merlin on May 21, 2012 8:35:42 GMT 3
A bill will be put to parlimanet to strike off the sections which prevent party hopping, and too, the ones which would declare the seat party hopper vacant. recidivism thus. Kenya governed by an illegal parliament.The 100 plus party hoppers should lose their seat and be expelled from parliament today under the existing laws to prevent them to change the law. Anyway, any current decisions of parliament involving one or more of the party hoppers are illegal and void as they are made by illegal members of parliament.
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Post by merlin on May 22, 2012 14:01:17 GMT 3
Parliament has illegal members in the house
It could be questionable if Parliament has illegal members as the speaker of the house has not been informed by other government organs to revoke seats in the house. But such an omission does not legalise the membership of an MP to the house. Government as a whole is responsible to function according to the laws of Kenya. As a citizen I can challenge Government for not living-up to the laws of Kenya and can indicate where and which organ or who is failing within government though it is up to government to get its act right.
As a Citizen I cannot be involved in a fight between the AG, the Registrar of Political Parties, the speaker of the house, or any other organ of government. If someone, somewhere in the process fails then consequence is that Parliament has become illegal.
I am of the opinion parliament has illegal members and as such has become illegal (inclusive all its decisions).
Now where did I go wrong in my presumption?
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