|
Post by reporter911 on Jun 22, 2012 8:05:00 GMT 3
Mwalimu in Jukwaa, Mwalimu in RC Bowen and Mwalimu in Public eye, are these elements refer to one person? It's like hawa watu wana share akili moja!! You nailed it ;D
|
|
|
Post by jakaswanga on Jun 22, 2012 16:42:36 GMT 3
[ The midnight raid on the Constitution by these MPs must be punished. This is treacherous and deadly.It is clear to see those against the new Constituion and those for it. In a thread titled the 2nd liberation came still-born, I am at pains to underscore why the elite must necessarily diffuse these explosive chapters in the new constitution. These amendments, and more are to come on chapter six --- we have the numbers, we can amend at will, boasted a MPig--, annul the whole gains made by the passage of the document at the referendum. The attempt to cleanse, and introduce a higher morality into the body politic is going void. Things have changed to stay the same. But the historical import of these mutilations, is that they effectively block the peaceful and constitutional attempt to effect fundamental change in Kenya. The idea that the public can speak, peacefully lining up to vote in a referendum, and have their desires so expressed turned into law, is being shown by this parliament, by this generation of MPigs, to be wishful thinking. A ritualistic farce. This follows barely 4 years after the results of the elections too, were brazenly trashed. Again after Kenyans peacefully did their civil duty. The endless optimists who believe in pleading with Kenyan politicians to respect the peoples wish, will continue their political masochism. But that is not the way history goes in my opinion. Sustained and perpetual steps to curtail the peoples popular will, never have a happy ending. Even if it is God himself in all his almighty powers arraigned against the people. He will be smashed. This is [f]-actually a matter of national security, and the characterization treason by Job above, is pin-point. It is imperative for the candidates who consider themselves on the progressive side, wholly on Wanjiku's side, Raila, Karua, Kenneth, Tuju, to recognize this and address a joint press conference which underscores the gravity of what has happened. The constitution must be defended by a willing coalition --rising above differences from ambition. Personally I consider the mutilation of this document a greater danger to the stability of Kenya than Al-Shabaab. Whether in the short or long run. This is no longer the document I voted for.
|
|
|
Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 22, 2012 16:55:59 GMT 3
[ The midnight raid on the Constitution by these MPs must be punished. This is treacherous and deadly.It is clear to see those against the new Constituion and those for it. In a thread titled the 2nd liberation came still-born, I am at pains to underscore why the elite must necessarily diffuse these explosive chapters in the new constitution. These amendments, and more are to come on chapter six --- we have the numbers, we can amend at will, boasted a MPig--, annul the whole gains made by the passage of the document at the referendum. The attempt to cleanse, and introduce a higher morality into the body politic is going void. Things have changed to stay the same. But the historical import of these mutilations, is that they effectively block the peaceful and constitutional attempt to effect fundamental change in Kenya. The idea that the public can speak, peacefully lining up to vote in a referendum, and have their desires so expressed turned into law, is being shown by this parliament, by this generation of MPigs, to be wishful thinking. A ritualistic farce. This follows barely 4 years after the results of the elections too, were brazenly trashed. Again after Kenyans peacefully did their civil duty. The endless optimists who believe in pleading with Kenyan politicians to respect the peoples wish, will continue their political masochism. But that is not the way history goes in my opinion. Sustained and perpetual steps to curtail the peoples popular will, never have a happy ending. Even if it is God himself in all his almighty powers arraigned against the people. He will be smashed. This is [f]-actually a matter of national security, and the characterization treason by Job above, is pin-point. It is imperative for the candidates who consider themselves on the progressive side, wholly on Wanjiku's side, Raila, Karua, Kenneth, Tuju, to recognize this and address a joint press conference which underscores the gravity of what has happened. The constitution must be defended by a willing coalition --rising above differences from ambition. Personally I consider the mutilation of this document a greater danger to the stability of Kenya than Al-Shabaab. Whether in the short or long run. This is no longer the document I voted for. Jakaswanga, I hear you, but I think the media is doing us a disservice. These guys were not changing the constitution but amending the supporting legislation, otherwise known us the Acts of Parliament. There is a lot of misinformation out there. To be honest, however, some of the changes are very sensible. For instance, Mungatana's minority leader issue as well as the by-election law. I found those to be very well reasoned. I have my own views on party hoping especially in the wake of Mudavadi's move, and what we learnt within that process, but I will keep those to myself for now. But talk about the constitution, there is one thing that I would like amended pronto. This thing of second round vote for presidential elections. This thing is going to be a very big problem in future and marginalize some communities. It will be worse than the infamous 41 v. 1. Kenyans should only vote once and whomever emerges with majority vote should be president.
|
|
|
Post by raiswakesho on Jun 22, 2012 17:25:39 GMT 3
Mungatana must wake up to the new dawn! May I remind him that a minority party can pick anyone from it's rank of elected leaders to lead its agenda in the senate or parliament for that matter.
Did anyone understand Mungatana's logic of how we'll create dictorship if a presidential loser isn't nominated by his/her a party?
Parliament's agenda and work will run with or without Raila. Ruto, Uhuru, Karua n the rest of the presidential candidates... Whoever isn't sure of winning the presidency but also too scared to be in the cold should pull out of the race and cut the clothe to his/her size.
|
|
|
Post by adongo23456 on Jun 22, 2012 17:32:22 GMT 3
In a thread titled the 2nd liberation came still-born, I am at pains to underscore why the elite must necessarily diffuse these explosive chapters in the new constitution. These amendments, and more are to come on chapter six --- we have the numbers, we can amend at will, boasted a MPig--, annul the whole gains made by the passage of the document at the referendum. The attempt to cleanse, and introduce a higher morality into the body politic is going void. Things have changed to stay the same. But the historical import of these mutilations, is that they effectively block the peaceful and constitutional attempt to effect fundamental change in Kenya. The idea that the public can speak, peacefully lining up to vote in a referendum, and have their desires so expressed turned into law, is being shown by this parliament, by this generation of MPigs, to be wishful thinking. A ritualistic farce. This follows barely 4 years after the results of the elections too, were brazenly trashed. Again after Kenyans peacefully did their civil duty. The endless optimists who believe in pleading with Kenyan politicians to respect the peoples wish, will continue their political masochism. But that is not the way history goes in my opinion. Sustained and perpetual steps to curtail the peoples popular will, never have a happy ending. Even if it is God himself in all his almighty powers arraigned against the people. He will be smashed. This is [f]-actually a matter of national security, and the characterization treason by Job above, is pin-point. It is imperative for the candidates who consider themselves on the progressive side, wholly on Wanjiku's side, Raila, Karua, Kenneth, Tuju, to recognize this and address a joint press conference which underscores the gravity of what has happened. The constitution must be defended by a willing coalition --rising above differences from ambition. Personally I consider the mutilation of this document a greater danger to the stability of Kenya than Al-Shabaab. Whether in the short or long run. This is no longer the document I voted for. Jakaswanga, I hear you, but I think the media is doing us a disservice. These guys were not changing the constitution but amending the supporting legislation, otherwise known us the Acts of Parliament. There is a lot of misinformation out there. To be honest, some of the changes are very sensible. For instance, Mungatana's minority leader issue as well as the by-election law. But talk about the constitution, there is one thing that I would like amended pronto. This thing of second round vote for presidential elections. This thing is going to be a very big problem in future and marginalize some communities. It will be worse than the infamous 41 v. 1. Kenyans should only vote once and whomever emerges with majority vote should be president. mwalimumkuu,The amendments that some of you guys were celebrating here yesterday are falling apart as we speak. Every act of parliament whether it is just a simple act as they call it must be consistent with the constitution. Otherwise such acts are null and void to the extent of the inconsistency. For example the stupidity of M.Ps lowering the academic requirements for themselves while others are required to meet certain standards was simply unconstitutional and the outrage from Kenyans forced the M.Ps to amend their own amendments. Then they wanted presidential jokers who put their names in the ballot knowing fully well that they are going nowhere to be allowed to put their names on every possible seat. We know this was intended to help tribal gangsters who want to hijack the country to put all their cronies to harvest tribal votes and keep them from those they fear while those cronies know they cannot be elected presidents even of villages. That whole nonsense collapsed. All these were supposed to be the brilliant ideas of the Gang of 7 mob who claim they have the numbers in parliament to mutilate the constitution to suit their selfish interests. The rest of the crap is headed to court. The beauty of it all is that the M.Ps have really enraged the citizenry who have responded with outright hostility to the nonsense coming out of parliament. The litttle worshippers of the status quo who refuse to think of their country can jump up and down cheering the M.Ps but in reality you are just cheering them to their graves. You folks deserve each other. Mjienjoy.
|
|
|
Post by raiswakesho on Jun 22, 2012 17:48:39 GMT 3
The likes of Mungatana, Musyimi, Ruto, Mwalimu and the rest can mutilate the constitution all they want but let them not forget that The Supreme Court is the ultimate authority on constitutionality!
Wanjiku should seat pretty as long as Hon. Willy Mutunga is still breathing.
See you in court!!
|
|
|
Post by raiswakesho on Jun 22, 2012 19:43:31 GMT 3
Mwalimu in Jukwaa, Mwalimu in RC Bowen and Mwalimu in Public eye, are these elements refer to one person? It's like hawa watu wana share akili moja!! Lest he forgets...the people r still waiting for your response Mr.
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Jun 22, 2012 21:46:45 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, I hear you, but I think the media is doing us a disservice. These guys were not changing the constitution but amending the supporting legislation, otherwise known us the Acts of Parliament. There is a lot of misinformation out there. To be honest, some of the changes are very sensible. For instance, Mungatana's minority leader issue as well as the by-election law. But talk about the constitution, there is one thing that I would like amended pronto. This thing of second round vote for presidential elections. This thing is going to be a very big problem in future and marginalize some communities. It will be worse than the infamous 41 v. 1. Kenyans should only vote once and whomever emerges with majority vote should be president. mwalimumkuu,The amendments that some of you guys were celebrating here yesterday are falling apart as we speak. Every act of parliament whether it is just a simple act as they call it must be consistent with the constitution. Otherwise such acts are null and void to the extent of the inconsistency. For example the stupidity of M.Ps lowering the academic requirements for themselves while others are required to meet certain standards was simply unconstitutional and the outrage from Kenyans forced the M.Ps to amend their own amendments. Then they wanted presidential jokers who put their names in the ballot knowing fully well that they are going nowhere to be allowed to put their names on every possible seat. We know this was intended to help tribal gangsters who want to hijack the country to put all their cronies to harvest tribal votes and keep them from those they fear while those cronies know they cannot be elected presidents even of villages. That whole nonsense collapsed. All these were supposed to be the brilliant ideas of the Gang of 7 mob who claim they have the numbers in parliament to mutilate the constitution to suit their selfish interests. The rest of the crap is headed to court. The beauty of it all is that the M.Ps have really enraged the citizenry who have responded with outright hostility to the nonsense coming out of parliament. The litttle worshippers of the status quo who refuse to think of their country can jump up and down cheering the M.Ps but in reality you are just cheering them to their graves. You folks deserve each other. Mjienjoy. The essence of democracy is that each arm of government is allowed its own leeway subject to the constitution. Parliament fooled around with the law and until one can point out an inconsistency with the constitution, it is virtually impossible to overturn that law...even Kibaki cannot refuse to accent to a law unless it is unconstitutional! The outrage against our MPs is rather misplaced as long as one cn convnce the courts that they broke the law. It is not any different to a public expressing outrage that the courts have ruled abortion of homosexual marriages legal using a narrow interpretation of the law...that decision makes it law unless parliament overturns it via an amendment to the law to make whatever was obscure clear. We are simply paying the price of democracy and we should live with it until we bring another lot of potato heads to make things even worse!
|
|
|
Post by adongo23456 on Jun 22, 2012 23:19:09 GMT 3
mwalimumkuu,The amendments that some of you guys were celebrating here yesterday are falling apart as we speak. Every act of parliament whether it is just a simple act as they call it must be consistent with the constitution. Otherwise such acts are null and void to the extent of the inconsistency. For example the stupidity of M.Ps lowering the academic requirements for themselves while others are required to meet certain standards was simply unconstitutional and the outrage from Kenyans forced the M.Ps to amend their own amendments. Then they wanted presidential jokers who put their names in the ballot knowing fully well that they are going nowhere to be allowed to put their names on every possible seat. We know this was intended to help tribal gangsters who want to hijack the country to put all their cronies to harvest tribal votes and keep them from those they fear while those cronies know they cannot be elected presidents even of villages. That whole nonsense collapsed. All these were supposed to be the brilliant ideas of the Gang of 7 mob who claim they have the numbers in parliament to mutilate the constitution to suit their selfish interests. The rest of the crap is headed to court. The beauty of it all is that the M.Ps have really enraged the citizenry who have responded with outright hostility to the nonsense coming out of parliament. The litttle worshippers of the status quo who refuse to think of their country can jump up and down cheering the M.Ps but in reality you are just cheering them to their graves. You folks deserve each other. Mjienjoy. The essence of democracy is that each arm of government is allowed its own leeway subject to the constitution. Parliament fooled around with the law and until one can point out an inconsistency with the constitution, it is virtually impossible to overturn that law...even Kibaki cannot refuse to accent to a law unless it is unconstitutional! The outrage against our MPs is rather misplaced as long as one cn convnce the courts that they broke the law. It is not any different to a public expressing outrage that the courts have ruled abortion of homosexual marriages legal using a narrow interpretation of the law...that decision makes it law unless parliament overturns it via an amendment to the law to make whatever was obscure clear. We are simply paying the price of democracy and we should live with it until we bring another lot of potato heads to make things even worse! Kamale,It is spineless cowards who raise their hands in despair and accept everything done by M.Ps with the pretext that nothing can be done. That is how Moi screwed the country for decades because some cowards kept saying oh there is nothing we can do. Patriotism requires that we denounce and reject bad laws and dangerous attempts by a few individuals to impose their own will on us as a country. While some of you are "whining" about "misplaced" outrage by Kenyans, the Kenyan masses are speaking loud and clear and the tsunami of protests from all sectors of our society tells me these amendments are doomed. The bloody idiot M.Ps got so mixed up they ended up putting the university degree requirement for their jobs while half of them are barely literate. First they started by allowing themslves to contest seats without degrees while new contestants must have degrees. Then they realised you cannot have two different sets of requirements for one job. Then in the rush to amend their own amendments they slapped the degree requirement back. Now some of the same M.Ps are begging Kibaki not to sign the amendments into law. I mean just how dump can people be. Stupidity should have limiits. But here are the battle lines. Kenyans are ready for this battle. I love it. No going back. The wheels are going to fall off completely on this one. Here we go: www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Pressure+grows+on+Kibaki+to+reject+Bill/-/1064/1433820/-/item/0/-/7w2ml4/-/index.html
|
|
|
Post by mank on Jun 23, 2012 0:07:41 GMT 3
Mwalimu in Jukwaa, Mwalimu in RC Bowen and Mwalimu in Public eye, are these elements refer to one person? It's like hawa watu wana share akili moja!! A complaint, or just an observation?
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Jun 23, 2012 11:35:44 GMT 3
The essence of democracy is that each arm of government is allowed its own leeway subject to the constitution. Parliament fooled around with the law and until one can point out an inconsistency with the constitution, it is virtually impossible to overturn that law...even Kibaki cannot refuse to accent to a law unless it is unconstitutional! The outrage against our MPs is rather misplaced as long as one cn convnce the courts that they broke the law. It is not any different to a public expressing outrage that the courts have ruled abortion of homosexual marriages legal using a narrow interpretation of the law...that decision makes it law unless parliament overturns it via an amendment to the law to make whatever was obscure clear. We are simply paying the price of democracy and we should live with it until we bring another lot of potato heads to make things even worse! Kamale,It is spineless cowards who raise their hands in despair and accept everything done by M.Ps with the pretext that nothing can be done. That is how Moi screwed the country for decades because some cowards kept saying oh there is nothing we can do. Patriotism requires that we denounce and reject bad laws and dangerous attempts by a few individuals to impose their own will on us as a country. While some of you are "whining" about "misplaced" outrage by Kenyans, the Kenyan masses are speaking loud and clear and the tsunami of protests from all sectors of our society tells me these amendments are doomed. The bloody idiot M.Ps got so mixed up they ended up putting the university degree requirement for their jobs while half of them are barely literate. First they started by allowing themslves to contest seats without degrees while new contestants must have degrees. Then they realised you cannot have two different sets of requirements for one job. Then in the rush to amend their own amendments they slapped the degree requirement back. Now some of the same M.Ps are begging Kibaki not to sign the amendments into law. I mean just how dump can people be. Stupidity should have limiits. But here are the battle lines. Kenyans are ready for this battle. I love it. No going back. The wheels are going to fall off completely on this one. Here we go: www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Pressure+grows+on+Kibaki+to+reject+Bill/-/1064/1433820/-/item/0/-/7w2ml4/-/index.htmlIt is nothing to do with being a coward or Kenyans thinking that petitioning Kibaki or going to court will help them. I have said the onus on them is to show the unconstitutionality of the laws passed and if none is there, we are stuck with the laws. AG Githu has asked those who feel offended to seek recourse in the courts....that is where the noise makers should go everytime they feel the executive or the legislature has fukced them. The noisemaking is what tires me!
|
|
|
Post by reporter911 on Jun 23, 2012 11:53:07 GMT 3
Kamale,It is spineless cowards who raise their hands in despair and accept everything done by M.Ps with the pretext that nothing can be done. That is how Moi screwed the country for decades because some cowards kept saying oh there is nothing we can do. Patriotism requires that we denounce and reject bad laws and dangerous attempts by a few individuals to impose their own will on us as a country. While some of you are "whining" about "misplaced" outrage by Kenyans, the Kenyan masses are speaking loud and clear and the tsunami of protests from all sectors of our society tells me these amendments are doomed. The bloody idiot M.Ps got so mixed up they ended up putting the university degree requirement for their jobs while half of them are barely literate. First they started by allowing themslves to contest seats without degrees while new contestants must have degrees. Then they realised you cannot have two different sets of requirements for one job. Then in the rush to amend their own amendments they slapped the degree requirement back. Now some of the same M.Ps are begging Kibaki not to sign the amendments into law. I mean just how dump can people be. Stupidity should have limiits. But here are the battle lines. Kenyans are ready for this battle. I love it. No going back. The wheels are going to fall off completely on this one. Here we go: www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Pressure+grows+on+Kibaki+to+reject+Bill/-/1064/1433820/-/item/0/-/7w2ml4/-/index.html It is nothing to do with being a coward or Kenyans thinking that petitioning Kibaki or going to court will help them. I have said the onus on them is to show the unconstitutionality of the laws passed and if none is there, we are stuck with the laws. AG Githu has asked those who feel offended to seek recourse in the courts....that is where the noise makers should go everytime they feel the executive or the legislature has fukced them. The noisemaking is what tires me! AG Githu sold out before he even got into the AG seat, I hope after next elections he is sacked/kicked out/. rumours on the ground has it that he was known as the kickback master.. AG Githu was not qualified for AG position ( rumour has it that the PM & Kibaki made deals on this one, "let me pick mine & I will let you have yours" ) no wonder he said what he said in the Media after MP's Mutilated the new constitution...bure Kabisa!! Kenya AG's except for maybe only one have been the worst for the country, they swear the Oath not to the country but to their political affiliation.
|
|
|
Post by furaha on Jun 23, 2012 12:01:11 GMT 3
It is nothing to do with being a coward or Kenyans thinking that petitioning Kibaki or going to court will help them. I have said the onus on them is to show the unconstitutionality of the laws passed and if none is there, we are stuck with the laws. AG Githu has asked those who feel offended to seek recourse in the courts....that is where the noise makers should go everytime they feel the executive or the legislature has fukced them. The noisemaking is what tires me! Pole sana for your tiredness... You might try being a little more tolerant to public opinion to overcome it.... Of course the courts are an excellent option and I am sure that soon they will be very busy with all these amendments. But there is also a court of public opinion and that is the one many politicians will soon have to face. I would not be surprised if the number of incumbent MP's defeated at the polls will be even higher during the next elections than it was in 2007.
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Jun 23, 2012 14:56:04 GMT 3
It is nothing to do with being a coward or Kenyans thinking that petitioning Kibaki or going to court will help them. I have said the onus on them is to show the unconstitutionality of the laws passed and if none is there, we are stuck with the laws. AG Githu has asked those who feel offended to seek recourse in the courts....that is where the noise makers should go everytime they feel the executive or the legislature has fukced them. The noisemaking is what tires me! Pole sana for your tiredness... You might try being a little more tolerant to public opinion to overcome it.... Of course the courts are an excellent option and I am sure that soon they will be very busy with all these amendments. But there is also a court of public opinion and that is the one many politicians will soon have to face. I would not be surprised if the number of incumbent MP's defeated at the polls will be even higher during the next elections than it was in 2007. Furaha I actually have respect for public opinion even when I disagree. I always try a dose of realism when dealing with these matters. When the people of Langata or Embakasi voted for their leaders, it was their level of education they were looking for....it was very many things removed from education! This notion that a university degree will enhance the quality of leadership, then you just need to look at some very 'bright' sparks in our political class who boast 'quality degrees' but their actions and behaviour simply never matches up! But that is not the point here...you need to look at the law that was passed and then decide if the law 'displeases' you or if infact it is unconstitutional! If it makes you mad...you will have a choice on 13th March 2013. If it is unconstitutional, Dr. Stud has said "come to me all you who have been constitutionally offended". With such a simple choice, why all the noise?
|
|
|
Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 23, 2012 16:56:29 GMT 3
Here, Kegoro tries to enlighten us on the various changes that were done by parliament on various sections of the law. www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/-/440808/1433942/-/lqdn25z/-/index.htmlAs I indicated earlier, there are some things in these amendments that are very sound. Take the issue of sexual offences for instance, there is just no way this thing was going to remain the way it was and still stand the test of time. Apart from the issue of education, I am ok with the rest.
|
|
|
Post by furaha on Jun 23, 2012 18:04:20 GMT 3
Pole sana for your tiredness... You might try being a little more tolerant to public opinion to overcome it.... Of course the courts are an excellent option and I am sure that soon they will be very busy with all these amendments. But there is also a court of public opinion and that is the one many politicians will soon have to face. I would not be surprised if the number of incumbent MP's defeated at the polls will be even higher during the next elections than it was in 2007. Furaha I actually have respect for public opinion even when I disagree. I always try a dose of realism when dealing with these matters. When the people of Langata or Embakasi voted for their leaders, it was their level of education they were looking for....it was very many things removed from education! This notion that a university degree will enhance the quality of leadership, then you just need to look at some very 'bright' sparks in our political class who boast 'quality degrees' but their actions and behaviour simply never matches up! But that is not the point here...you need to look at the law that was passed and then decide if the law 'displeases' you or if infact it is unconstitutional! If it makes you mad...you will have a choice on 13th March 2013. If it is unconstitutional, Dr. Stud has said "come to me all you who have been constitutionally offended". With such a simple choice, why all the noise? Kamale, I actually lean towards the position that requiring a degree is discriminatory. Many countries with a much higher percentage of graduates than Kenya do not have this requirement. It is upon political parties to vet and then select candidates who bring the necessary qualifications enabling them to represent the electorate's interests. If they chose the wrong candidates they do so at their peril. But in Kenya many political parties are 'owned' by individuals who use them for their own selfish interest. Serious vetting is not common. In fact, at times candidacies for plum posts can be bought. But that is beside the point. Technically speaking you are correct to state that the courts and the ballot box are the places where the aggrieved should go to find relief. But Kenyans' discontent about their politicians could reach a point where things boil over and people take to the streets because that is the only immediate recourse they have. So responsible politicians would listen to their electorate (or noise makers as seems to be your preferred qualification) and change mid-course. If they remain unresponsive this is an example of what you get: a call to action by KPTJ that landed in my intray earlier today: *We call for our members and their networks to join us at Professional Center (CBD) at 9.45am on Monday 25th June 2012 in order to *
- Sign a petition against the amendments to the Election and Political Parties Acts
- Walk to parliament together and hold a press conference outside Parliament *at 10.30 am*
- Present a Public Petition to Parliament against the amendments to the Election and Political Parties Acts
- Afterwards walk to Harambee House and deliver an advisory letter to the President on the unconstitutionality of the amendments being tabled in Parliament
- Then walk to Sheria House to deliver a similar letter to the Attorney General.
And such (mass) action is completely legal. Furaha
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Jun 23, 2012 18:11:42 GMT 3
Furaha I actually have respect for public opinion even when I disagree. I always try a dose of realism when dealing with these matters. When the people of Langata or Embakasi voted for their leaders, it was their level of education they were looking for....it was very many things removed from education! This notion that a university degree will enhance the quality of leadership, then you just need to look at some very 'bright' sparks in our political class who boast 'quality degrees' but their actions and behaviour simply never matches up! But that is not the point here...you need to look at the law that was passed and then decide if the law 'displeases' you or if infact it is unconstitutional! If it makes you mad...you will have a choice on 13th March 2013. If it is unconstitutional, Dr. Stud has said "come to me all you who have been constitutionally offended". With such a simple choice, why all the noise? Kamale, I actually lean towards the position that requiring a degree is discriminatory. Many countries with a much higher percentage of graduates than Kenya do not have this requirement. It is upon political parties to vet and then select candidates who bring the necessary qualifications enabling them to represent the electorate's interests. If they chose the wrong candidates they do so at their peril. But in Kenya many political parties are 'owned' by individuals who use them for their own selfish interest. Serious vetting is not common. In fact, at times candidacies for plum posts can be bought. But that is beside the point. Technically speaking you are correct to state that the courts and the ballot box are the places where the aggrieved should go to find relief. But Kenyans' discontent about their politicians could reach a point where things boil over and people take to the streets because that is the only immediate recourse they have. So responsible politicians would listen to their electorate (or noise makers as seems to be your preferred qualification) and change mid-course. If they remain unresponsive this is an example of what you get: a call to action by KPTJ that landed in my intray earlier today: *We call for our members and their networks to join us at Professional Center (CBD) at 9.45am on Monday 25th June 2012 in order to *
- Sign a petition against the amendments to the Election and Political Parties Acts
- Walk to parliament together and hold a press conference outside Parliament *at 10.30 am*
- Present a Public Petition to Parliament against the amendments to the Election and Political Parties Acts
- Afterwards walk to Harambee House and deliver an advisory letter to the President on the unconstitutionality of the amendments being tabled in Parliament
- Then walk to Sheria House to deliver a similar letter to the Attorney General.
And such (mass) action is completely legal. Furaha Furaha I would imagine that the decision to take to the streets should only happen when all else has failed. If we create institutions and then refuse to allow them exercise their respective mandates, then that is surely a recipe for anarchy.
|
|
|
Post by furaha on Jun 23, 2012 18:39:19 GMT 3
Furaha I would imagine that the decision to take to the streets should only happen when all else has failed. If we create institutions and then refuse to allow them exercise their respective mandates, then that is surely a recipe for anarchy. Kamale, While I tend to agree, your principle would apply in ideal situations. we seem to have a situation here where large numbers in the electorate are fed up with their unresponsive politicians. If the politicians were to show that they are actually prepared to listen, respond and exercise their mandates in a responsible manner, there would be less need to take to streets... And taking to the streets is not a recipe for anarchy. It is a right. Furaha
|
|
|
Post by adongo23456 on Jun 23, 2012 18:52:45 GMT 3
furaha & others including Kamale
The sad thing about all these is that we are being duped into seeing these bogus amendments of the constitution of the republic as an issue of having degrees before you go and make a fool of yourself in parliament or any other state office.
These guys passed laws to destroy the vetting of judicial officers from judges, magistrates and appeal court justices. It is an obvious attempt to protect corrupt judicial officers so that the same can protect the evil politicians and their goals. Who is talking about that? Nobody. Instead we are talking about how many degrees you need to be an idiot in parliament.
The amendments include a provision for political party hopping, contrary to the constitution Kenyans passed in August 2010 which provided for basic discipline within party politics in the republic. And all they want us to talk about is degrees. This is a joke gone too far.
Let me say this about degrees. I don't give a shit for them. The smartest human being I have ever seen with my own eyes is Mawere Nyambara, my uncle. A great businessman. A genius in cost accounting for his business.
The man never stepped into a class room even though he tried to get all his kids there. So we can have that discussion whether degrees mean anything. But the treachery the M.Ps did in their effort to mutilate the just passed constitution of the republic of Kenya is way beyond degrees for M.Ps. That is where the focus of the Kenyan masses are. Let's go there with them.
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Jun 23, 2012 19:35:06 GMT 3
furaha & others including KamaleThe sad thing about all these is that we are being duped into seeing these bogus amendments of the constitution of the republic as an issue of having degrees before you go and make a fool of yourself in parliament or any other state office. These guys passed laws to destroy the vetting of judicial officers from judges, magistrates and appeal court justices. It is an obvious attempt to protect corrupt judicial officers so that the same can protect the evil politicians and their goals. Who is talking about that? Nobody. Instead we are talking about how many degrees you need to be an idiot in parliament. The amendments include a provision for political party hopping, contrary to the constitution Kenyans passed in August 2010 which provided for basic discipline within party politics in the republic. And all they want us to talk about is degrees. This is a joke gone too far. Let me say this about degrees. I don't give a shit for them. The smartest human being I have ever seen with my own eyes is Mawere Nyambara, my uncle. A great businessman. A genius in cost accounting for his business. The man never stepped into a class room even though he tried to get all his kids there. So we can have that discussion whether degrees mean anything. But the treachery the M.Ps did in their effort to mutilate the just passed constitution of the republic of Kenya is way beyond degrees for M.Ps. That is where the focus of the Kenyan masses are. Let's go there with them. [/quote Adongo seems to have joined those that are making generalised statements about the actions of the MPigs. For the sake of clarity they did NOTHING to mutilate the constitution. What has been suggested is that they passed laws that were inconsistent with the constitution which is miles different to mutilating the constitution! The extent of the inconsistency and how it will be determined lies with Kibaki and then the courts...in that order!
|
|
|
Post by furaha on Jun 23, 2012 20:12:06 GMT 3
furaha & others including KamaleThese guys passed laws to destroy the vetting of judicial officers from judges, magistrates and appeal court justices. It is an obvious attempt to protect corrupt judicial officers so that the same can protect the evil politicians and their goals. Who is talking about that? Nobody. Instead we are talking about how many degrees you need to be an idiot in parliament. Good point, Adongo. And it will be talked about. here is Ahmednasir Adullahi in the Sunday Nation Parliament erred; JSC should not vet magistrates www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Parliament+erred+JSC+should+not+vet+magistrates+/-/440808/1434332/-/bkmvn3/-/index.html
|
|
|
Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 24, 2012 16:15:37 GMT 3
furaha & others including KamaleThese guys passed laws to destroy the vetting of judicial officers from judges, magistrates and appeal court justices. It is an obvious attempt to protect corrupt judicial officers so that the same can protect the evil politicians and their goals. Who is talking about that? Nobody. Instead we are talking about how many degrees you need to be an idiot in parliament. Good point, Adongo. And it will be talked about. here is Ahmednasir Adullahi in the Sunday Nation Parliament erred; JSC should not vet magistrates www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Parliament+erred+JSC+should+not+vet+magistrates+/-/440808/1434332/-/bkmvn3/-/index.htmlFuraha, The CJ has clarified today that he was consulted over this issue and advised that the JSC would be the right bodylto vet magistrates. He even contradicts Ahmednasir by indicating that the JSC has enough resources and time to vet all of them. The question therefore is, could Mutunga as Nereah has sensationally claimed lately be losing focus and covering for the big boys, or is this just a classic case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing the Kenyan way? You will remember not too long ago, while some people claimed that the judiciary was not consulted in the appointment of Rawal to head the Saitoti probe, again the CJ came out and said no, I was consulted. Obviously something is not right somewhere.
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Jun 24, 2012 18:25:01 GMT 3
Furaha, The CJ has clarified today that he was consulted over this issue and advised that the JSC would be the right bodylto vet magistrates. He even contradicts Ahmednasir by indicating that the JSC has enough resources and time to vet all of them. The question therefore is, could Mutunga as Nereah has sensationally claimed lately be losing focus and covering for the big boys, or is this just a classic case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing the Kenyan way? You will remember not too long ago, while some people claimed that the judiciary was not consulted in the appointment of Rawal to head the Saitoti probe, again the CJ came out and said no, I was consulted. Obviously something is not right somewhere. Mmkuu Usual activist problem of imagining things! Now they will claim Dr Stud is working with the devil!
|
|
|
Post by adongo23456 on Jun 24, 2012 18:53:24 GMT 3
Furaha, The CJ has clarified today that he was consulted over this issue and advised that the JSC would be the right bodylto vet magistrates. He even contradicts Ahmednasir by indicating that the JSC has enough resources and time to vet all of them. The question therefore is, could Mutunga as Nereah has sensationally claimed lately be losing focus and covering for the big boys, or is this just a classic case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing the Kenyan way? You will remember not too long ago, while some people claimed that the judiciary was not consulted in the appointment of Rawal to head the Saitoti probe, again the CJ came out and said no, I was consulted. Obviously something is not right somewhere. Mmkuu Usual activist problem of imagining things! Now they will claim Dr Stud is working with the devil! Kamale, Do you even know the real issues being debated here? It doesn't seem like you have any clue. Whether Mutunga agrees with any specific amendments or not is not the issue. Mutunga has a right to his opinion and it is not gospel truth to any of us. We have a right to agree or not agree with him. In fact when Mutunga talks about vetting in terms of judges having paid their school loans and taxes (as I saw in the capital fm story) it is outright nonsense. To be fair to him that is not everything he said. But Mutunga of all people should know why Kenyans are demanding that judges be vetted in a credible and transparent way. Our judiciary has been a cesspool of corruption, incompetence and outright subversion of out national interests. That is why the judges and other judicial officers are being vetted. It has nothing to do with taxes and loans. In any event the infamous amendments are just an outright assult on the constitution. Falling on the lap of the CJ to defend this infamy will not work. Take that to the bank. Now.
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Jun 24, 2012 18:57:41 GMT 3
Mmkuu Usual activist problem of imagining things! Now they will claim Dr Stud is working with the devil! Kamale, Do you even know the real issues being debated here? It doesn't seem like you have any clue. Whether Mutunga agrees with any specific amendments or not is not the issue. Mutunga has a right to his opinion and it is not gospel truth to any of us. We have a right to agree or not agree with him. In fact when Mutunga talks about vetting in terms of judges having paid their school loans and taxes (as I saw in the capital fm story) it is outright nonsense. To be fair to him that is not everything he said. But Mutunga of all people should know why Kenyans are demanding that judges be vetted in a credible and transparent way. Our judiciary has been a cesspool of corruption, incompetence and outright subversion of out national interests. That is why the judges and other judicial officers are being vetted. It has nothing to do with taxes and loans. In any event the infamous amendments are just an outright assult on the constitution. Falling on the lap of the CJ to defend this infamy will not work. Take that to the bank. Now. Adongo You should never feel it necessary to respond to me! I know what the debate is about and I am even aware about Mutunga talking about having approved the appointment Rawal contrary to activist thinking that Kimunya had taken a unilateral decision to take a judge to run an enquiry without checking with the CJ! In any case it makes a lot more sense for the JSC to vet magistrates in light of their numbers as opposed to judges!
|
|