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Post by stibin on Jun 26, 2012 13:26:24 GMT 3
Mank, Are you suggesting that stopping hate speech is tantamount to gagging and therefore a danger to democracy? I really don’t see why it is so difficult to accept there is always some sort of censorship in all forms of public communication. Whether in the business of writing, filming, performing e.t.c there is always a limit on the information you can feed to the public and I honestly don’t think music should be an exception. Right here in Jukwaa, for example, there are rules that govern what one can write about. Stibin Just what is you definition of hate speech and how does that fit in with the songs? My definition of hate speech is when I say because swazi girls go bare breasted, they are primitive and should have their boobs chopped off. In this case I am hating on the swazi and suggesting harm. What is yours? My definition of hate speech is something like this from Mungai wa Njoroge song “There it is better to die. Things for a man are not governed by an uncircumcised man. I would kill him. Its better they increase my charges" In this case there is hate directed at uncircumcised people who are bound by their culture to remain so.
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Post by mzee on Jun 26, 2012 13:38:42 GMT 3
b6k, I’m one of those chaps that never had time for any vernacular songs till I left Kenya to study abroad. You see, a neighbor of mine had all the collela, Misiani, Ramogi etc benga songs and I used to ask him how he could enjoy the songs. He always gave me a wry smile as if to say, kid you will learn later. I only listened to reggae, lingala and "western" songs, what we called funk in those days. Interestingly enough, I really loved folk song and dance.
I was later to discover that our history is actually embedded in our songs. I started listening to Misiani, Collela, Ramogi, Nelly, etc. Since I understand some luhya I even started listening to Sukuma Bin Ongaro. These guys did not just sing about love all of the time. They touched on life in general and politics.
But as you mentioned, the master story teller and poet was Owino Misiani. There is an Owino song whose name I think is called “piny chur” a song that landed him in trouble with Kenyatta and was banned by Moi from the air waves. In the most courageous way he tells the top leadership that people are complaining and crying and their cries are heard all the way to Uganda and Tanzania. The sharp, witty lyrics, saw him jailed several times.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 26, 2012 15:16:01 GMT 3
Folks,
However much some try to drag in moral equivalance of hateful songs to try to defend the indenfensible let's always remember one thing. This is 2012. Kenya has just undergone a catastrophic tribal meltdown which threatened the very survival of the nation. Those songs we have condemned here are about a man who as we speak is at the ICC no less, charged with the crime of mobilizing Kikuyu youth (Mungiki) to carry out mass murder and rape of Luos in Naivasha specifically.
This is not idle talk. So when someone talks about killing uncircumcised folks they are talking of actual events that took place just 4 years ago and for which Kenyans are going to The Hague with much acrimony which is what the songs are based on. It is a protest about going to The Hague for killing people who should be killed anyways. That is the tragedy here.
Owino Misiani's song comparing Kikuyus in general to baboons is obviouly hateful, but it was released in 2003 and at no time do we have any evidence that Owino was singing about some Luos who had mobilized people to actually kill Kikuyus. Attempting to draw moral equivalance here is just typical excuses we make when we are afraid to confront tribalism in our midst. We look for straws to hang on. We shop for anything to defend wrong things just as we have shopped for every excuse to defend those charged with mass murder.
Oh Ocampo is being used. Oh someone is eliminating political competition. Oh foreigners are messing our country. Oh this and Oh that even when our home is burning. Ridiculous.
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Post by mzee on Jun 26, 2012 15:32:21 GMT 3
Adongo, I agree. The songs are outright hateful and there is nothing in them that can be considered artistic. But there are people on this very board who are actually defending the insults of the tribalistic musicians. I won’t. Owino on the other hand was a social commentator. I do believe that among all his songs, it’s only the Bim en Bim song that can be considered hateful. Kibunja is busy doing nothing, for if he was busy working we could have seen these musicians and some politicians committed to jail. The G7 in particular would not be trotting around calling others names.
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Post by sageman on Jun 26, 2012 15:45:02 GMT 3
funded and produced by Muthamaki, so depressing.
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Post by b6k on Jun 26, 2012 15:57:10 GMT 3
b6k, I’m one of those chaps that never had time for any vernacular songs till I left Kenya to study abroad. You see, a neighbor of mine had all the collela, Misiani, Ramogi etc benga songs and I used to ask him how he could enjoy the songs. He always gave me a wry smile as if to say, kid you will learn later. I only listened to reggae, lingala and "western" songs, what we called funk in those days. Interestingly enough, I really loved folk song and dance. I was later to discover that our history is actually embedded in our songs. I started listening to Misiani, Collela, Ramogi, Nelly, etc. Since I understand some luhya I even started listening to Sukuma Bin Ongaro. These guys did not just sing about love all of the time. They touched on life in general and politics. But as you mentioned, the master story teller and poet was Owino Misiani. There is an Owino song whose name I think is called “piny chur” a song that landed him in trouble with Kenyatta and was banned by Moi from the air waves. In the most courageous way he tells the top leadership that people are complaining and crying and their cries are heard all the way to Uganda and Tanzania. The sharp, witty lyrics, saw him jailed several times. How true, Mzee. A stint abroad will always boost your need to connect with the motherland.
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Post by b6k on Jun 26, 2012 16:23:09 GMT 3
Folks,However much some try to drag in moral equivalance of hateful songs to try to defend the indenfensible let's always remember one thing. This is 2012. Kenya has just undergone a catastrophic tribal meltdown which threatened the very survival of the nation. Those songs we have condemned here are about a man who as we speak is at the ICC no less, charged with the crime of mobilizing Kikuyu youth (Mungiki) to carry out mass murder and rape of Luos in Naivasha specifically. This is not idle talk. So when someone talks about killing uncircumcised folks they are talking of actual events that took place just 4 years ago and for which Kenyans are going to The Hague with much acrimony which is what the songs are based on. It is a protest about going to The Hague for killing people who should be killed anyways. That is the tragedy here. Owino Misiani's song comparing Kikuyus in general to baboons is obviouly hateful, but it was released in 2003 and at no time do we have any evidence that Owino was singing about some Luos who had mobilized people to actually kill Kikuyus. Attempting to draw moral equivalance here is just typical excuses we make when we are afraid to confront tribalism in our midst. We look for straws to hang on. We shop for anything to defend wrong things just as we have shopped for every excuse to defend those charged with mass murder. Oh Ocampo is being used. Oh someone is eliminating political competition. Oh foreigners are messing our country. Oh this and Oh that even when our home is burning. Ridiculous. Adongo, the fact remains both examples provided here are hateful. However the real question is, hateful to whom in particular. I posit to you that they can be understood to be hateful to the ethnic group represented by the "opponent's" side. On the face of it, the UK praising tunes are calling for the circumcision and/or death of one man (no prizes to guess who that may be). Equally, Misiani's song talking of the ruling Kikuyu elite being ungrateful baboons, then further on in the song going into how you cannot interbreed the various creatures, it is clear it isn't only Kikuyus taking a beating on this classic tune but other non human groups as well. After all, Misiani appears to be the only human in the tale, who stepped in to save the ungrateful baboon that was beaten & left for dead by monkeys, as had other baboons before him. As for no line calling for murder directly, I think that is just because the writer was very subtle. But this one line speaks volumes: And when the baboons see me its war. They shout to each other - ooh ohh ohh.I would argue that what you are seeing is a difference in the times. Misiani wrote at a time when lyrics didn't have to be explicit to be clear to the IN group to borrow from DW's old missives. Those in the IN group know exactly what he means by war just as Kwach on the link I posted gave a caveat that you can translate the song, but it loses it's "hidden meaning & edge". The same can be said for the UK praising songs when they talk about the tribal slur & what have you. There may be a lot that is lost in translation, but the thread of hate remains. The OUT group cannot comprehend the extent of the historical hidden meanings attributed to such loaded words as provided in the two sets of songs. Even within the IN group such songs can either be laughed off as parody or taken as literal truths for old ethnic animosities. Keep in mind in any group there is ALWAYS a hardcore chauvanistic lot that can take the same as a call to arms. I for one believe the UK song writers/singers equally deserve some time behind the slammer if only to serve as a warning for them tone down their lyrics in the future, just as Misiani enjoyed a stint in jail....
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Post by kamalet on Jun 26, 2012 16:53:37 GMT 3
My definition of hate speech is something like this from Mungai wa Njoroge song “There it is better to die. Things for a man are not governed by an uncircumcised man. I would kill him. Its better they increase my charges" In this case there is hate directed at uncircumcised people who are bound by their culture to remain so. When determining 'hate' even the context is important. In the case you quote the context of the gikuyu and circumcision needs to be taken into account. Even the dubious translation misses the context as the singer talks of k!hii rather than ihii and this means miles different when in a singular form! As one who understands the language of the song and knows the context, the reference was not to a community (as to qualify as hate!) but reference to an individual that had not received the cut! When politicians talked of 'uprooting sangari' anyone that knew what or who 'sangari' was, then understood the context that it was said!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 17:16:01 GMT 3
My definition of hate speech is something like this from Mungai wa Njoroge song “There it is better to die. Things for a man are not governed by an uncircumcised man. I would kill him. Its better they increase my charges" In this case there is hate directed at uncircumcised people who are bound by their culture to remain so. When determining 'hate' even the context is important. In the case you quote the context of the gikuyu and circumcision needs to be taken into account. Even the dubious translation misses the context as the singer talks of k!hii rather than ihii and this means miles different when in a singular form! As one who understands the language of the song and knows the context, the reference was not to a community (as to qualify as hate!) but reference to an individual that had not received the cut! When politicians talked of 'uprooting sangari' anyone that knew what or who 'sangari' was, then understood the context that it was said! never mind kamalet. Your community's cultural practices [backwards or othewise] must not be applied to gage a person's leadership skills and abilities. I know you won't ever get this, but we are a Nation Kenya not a Nation Kikuyu. A song that speaks to your community, counselling that they not vote for a man who is not circumcised is uncivilized. If you ever have that Kikuyu Nation then try imposing "cultural" practices; but even within that community there will be opposition to this that and the other "cultural" bullshit. See how poor Uhuru can't get every Kikuyu and GEMA people to line up behind him? Now stop twisting things trying to make out like we don't get the meaning of those awful songs. I might not understand all of it but I sure got enough to be disturbed by what I hear. And Uhuru needs to stop pretending that he didn't know of the songs. Tell that to the judges at the ICC!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 17:38:55 GMT 3
Stibin Just what is you definition of hate speech and how does that fit in with the songs? My definition of hate speech is when I say because swazi girls go bare breasted, they are primitive and should have their boobs chopped off. In this case I am hating on the swazi and suggesting harm. What is yours? My definition of hate speech is something like this from Mungai wa Njoroge song “There it is better to die. Things for a man are not governed by an uncircumcised man. I would kill him. Its better they increase my charges" In this case there is hate directed at uncircumcised people who are bound by their culture to remain so. Some Kenyan should take these musicians to court. See what happens there. The country will be forced to look at this issue and it can be an opportunity to raise people's awareness about the uncivilized nature of ramming one's own "culture" down the throats of those from other communities who have their own "culture" damn it! Hate speech is, outside the law, any communication that vilifies a person or a group on the basis of race, color, ethnicity, gender, disability, sexual orientation, nationality, religion, or other characteristic.[1][2] In law, hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group. The law may identify a protected individual or a protected group by race, gender, ethnicity, disability[3], nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity,[4] or other characteristicen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speechThe basic characteristic of what amounts to hate speech is that the essential intent of any such expression is to incite prejudicial treatment or action against a group of people whose classification as such is prompted by common discriminatory criteria. Perhaps the most apt way of clarifying this is to say that language becomes hate speech when an individual or group uses it to degrade another group or engender discrimination on it for political objectives (such as winning an election) or social objectives (such as entrenching male domination in the workplace).www.pambazuka.org/en/category/comment/51378
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Post by mzee on Jun 26, 2012 17:42:49 GMT 3
The songs even quote Uhuru Kenyatta verbatim, so why is Kamale trying to mislead people as if he is the only one who understands kikuyu language?
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Post by kamalet on Jun 26, 2012 18:14:29 GMT 3
The songs even quote Uhuru Kenyatta verbatim, so why is Kamale trying to mislead people as if he is the only one who understands kikuyu language? Yes they sing about Uhuru...that is not a verbatim quote from Uhuru? And if the hating is on Raila, is tht wrong considering that even Raila has been public about alleged things that Uhuru does? If the hating on the songs is against a community then we would be on the same page, but the Raila is not equal to a community!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2012 18:38:55 GMT 3
The songs even quote Uhuru Kenyatta verbatim, so why is Kamale trying to mislead people as if he is the only one who understands kikuyu language? Yes they sing about Uhuru...that is not a verbatim quote from Uhuru? And if the hating is on Raila, is tht wrong considering that even Raila has been public about alleged things that Uhuru does? If the hating on the songs is against a community then we would be on the same page, but the Raila is not equal to a community! kamaletRaila is the foremost politician in the Luo community. He is also the country's Prime Minister. He is not just one individual in the Luo Nation. The songs target not just him but anyone vying for office who comes from that community. Oh we can't be led by people who [luckily still] have their damn foreskins. Please. Stop being a smart alec justifying and therefore promoting these kinds of songs. You aren't convincing anyone except those who see the Kikuyu Nation as the bosses of everyone else. How about you forget about that silly dream.
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 26, 2012 19:31:16 GMT 3
Hague Bound – Muigai Wa Njoroge and Muhiko
Translated snippets:
Question: If it was you who is being pushed to The Hague what would you do?
Answer: I would call my family and divide up my property and then ask my mother to pray for me.
Question: What if you knew that Hague you are being pushed there by an uncircumcised man who wants to push you there and take over your wife and all your wealth? A man who can do anything to ensure you are in problems.
Answer: There it is better to die. Things for a man are not governed by an uncircumcised man. I would kill him. Its better they increase my charges.
Question: What would you tell your crying supporters as you are being shipped to Hague?
Answer: I would tell them to pray for me and know I am being persecuted for my love of my community.
Question: When you get to Hague how you would ensure the white man does not cheat you?
Answer: I would ask for proceedings to be done in Kikuyu.
Question: When on the dock what would you be thinking of the uncircumcised man who is the source of your predicament?
Answer: I would ask God to forgive him. I would also ask that he gets circumcised so that he matures mentally. I would also ask Kenyans to be very wary of that man. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Now folks,
There is something going on in this song which goes beyong the primacy of fears of casual listeners. 1. Is the evolution from the first gut-wrenching I WOULD KILL HIM! To the last christianly I WOULD ASK GOD TO FORGIVE HIM.
This artist has therefore covered the complete range of responses in dire: from vengeful murder to biblic forgiveness. And in between, an evolutionary process of emotions. That is a message of letting anger thaw. WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE CALLING FOR ITS BANNING DO WITH THAT LINE OF FORGIVENESS? PRETEND IT AINT THERE?
And actually he keeps on saying what would you do. To conclude that says that is what we must do, or ought to be done???
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Post by Mobimba on Jun 26, 2012 19:43:58 GMT 3
Musicians typically echo the thoughts of their audience. They gauge the mood of their target market then belt out tunes and lyrics that match their musical needs. It's a business… which is why a Kikuyu musician singing praises of Raila in Kikuyu for Kikuyus will go bankrupt like yesterday.
What should worry you and I is what these songs reveal. It's not outlandish to accept that a great majority of Kikuyus, albeit silently, share the same sentiments as the musicians. They blame the PEV squarely on Raila and would like to see him dead for the pain he is causing Mama Ngina and the prince. That is the truth the musicians are peddling.
When Misiani sings of baboons, all Luos, to the last man, understand the painful betrayal of their son. Misiani probably got his lyrics from the pubs of Kisumu/ Nairobi West. He was merely broadcasting the true feelings of the Luo nation.
So really, the musicians are innocent. Misiani did not deserve to go to jail. The 'hateful three' must theferore not go to jail. They are simply singing what the public demands. It's a long stretch but one could argue that they are in fact offering a public service… yaani, therapeutic music. No attacks here please but look at it this way: Suppose an average Kikuyu guy with the most vile hate against Raila listens to the jocular musical version of the same hate in the form of a song, isn't he bound to simmer down? Same thing for Misiani's song. Whether you like it or not, Misiani soothed the perturbed Luo souls as they danced away the pain of betrayal.
So there you have it. If there existed a concerted effort to unite all Kenyans and if all Kenyans bought into the idea, believe me, the three Kikuyu musicians would be singing a different tune. One of how their community should respect all Kenyans, cut or not, and they would make millions.
For now, the songs simply reveal who we really are... a bunch of mentally uncircumcised baboons.
Oh! And by the way, suggesting that smokers of marijuana cannot lead a nation is hate speech directed at Rastafarians.
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 26, 2012 20:04:22 GMT 3
The hypocrisy on jukwaa knows no bounds apparently its perfectly alright to suggest that kikuyus are baboons as was done on the "bim en bim" number and strangely not a word of condemnation has come from those who were pouring fire and brimstone on the kikuyu musicians. I have the feeling that they wish Jakswanga would take a long vacation and we never get a full translation and unfortunately my lakeside friends have taken a vow of omerta on this one tsk tsk The bottom line is that there are no innocents in kenya!! Fahari,The omerta may only be restricted to the lake people outside the homeland. It is a diaspora affliction, where Nairobi too counts as diaspora. In Luoland Nyanza, those of us who are benga and ahangla literati, and connoisseurs of the poetic cannons in dholuo, discuss every facet of these cultural productions without no go areas. Just as you would write a paper on the image of the german in18th century russian literature: the case of Tolstoy's war and peace, and defend your conclusions it in a academic seminar; so too in Nyanza Okello Jamach Pieretindo would do the image of gikuyus in Luo popular music, the case of bim en bim by maestro Owino Misiani. And defend his conclusions before a panel of manambas, other literati, fishermen, and market women. Even the possibilities of covert hate he would handle. No holes barred. (My own works were adults only as you would guess: (eg) the sianda madongo fetishism in luo-benga: a study of the lyrics of Okatch Biggy. Okello concluded [1] Owino in this song, taking the kenyan setting, is puritanical in consciousness. {can elaborate on request}. To the Tanzanian Luo however, unencumbered by the pre-occupations of the Kenyan Luo, this song has other connotations. So when Owino was being harassed our side of the border, they asked: so you Kenyans think you have the MONOPOLY of interpretations whenever the word Lake-people is mentioned in any song? [2]This is the benga equivalent of Animal Farm by george orwell, you silly Kenyans, a masterpiece in allegory and oral story telling with popular musical accompaniment. Kenyan politics is merely one prism. Tanzanian politics another. Local luo politics another. And then, that it is an allegory concerning contradictions only within Luo society itself as a whole, is beyond the scope of this condemnation! Suddenly what had looked a clear case of ethnic slur against kikuyus, bim en bim, appeared so multi-faceted that, to be high brow about it, the limited comprador consciousness which thinks the only interpretation is that of their class, revealed its complete unpreparedness to engage in a bit of thought out dialogue. Owino, to be fair said: kawe kaka wiyi iwuon lokoni godo. An bende awere kaka chunya okelona godo. An en an, to in in in! Interpret it according to your own mind. I sang it according to how my heart brought it. I is me, you are you! I thought the song had an obvious anti-gikuyu undertone, but I still argued for its place in the classics of witty benga. And I forced my luo students to write papers on it and discuss with the non luos. An eye-opener.
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Post by phil on Jun 26, 2012 20:27:57 GMT 3
Yes they sing about Uhuru...that is not a verbatim quote from Uhuru? And if the hating is on Raila, is tht wrong considering that even Raila has been public about alleged things that Uhuru does? If the hating on the songs is against a community then we would be on the same page, but the Raila is not equal to a community! kamaletRaila is the foremost politician in the Luo community. He is also the country's Prime Minister. He is not just one individual in the Luo Nation. The songs target not just him but anyone vying for office who comes from that community. Oh we can't be led by people who [luckily still] have their damn foreskins. Please. Stop being a smart alec justifying and therefore promoting these kinds of songs. You aren't convincing anyone except those who see the Kikuyu Nation as the bosses of everyone else. How about you forget about that silly dream. ;D ;D Hehehe Kathuure, very funny and well said. Matters of the mmm are best left where they belong. I havent heard the women complaining neither have I confirmed that Raila's foreskin is intact or not. Its even absurd that the male musicians find time to compose lyrics of this nature. But to me, it does not matter. What matters is the policies, credentials and quality the candidates bring forth for consideration by the voters.
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Post by b6k on Jun 26, 2012 22:22:23 GMT 3
[2]This is the benga equivalent of Animal Farm by george orwell, you silly Kenyans, a masterpiece in allegory and oral story telling with popular musical accompaniment. Kenyan politics is merely one prism. Tanzanian politics another. Local luo politics another. And then, that it is an allegory concerning contradictions only within Luo society itself as a whole, is beyond the scope of this condemnation! Suddenly what had looked a clear case of ethnic slur against kikuyus, bim en bim, appeared so multi-faceted that, to be high brow about it, the limited comprador consciousness which thinks the only interpretation is that of their class, revealed its complete unpreparedness to engage in a bit of thought out dialogue. Owino, to be fair said: kawe kaka wiyi iwuon lokoni godo. An bende awere kaka chunya okelona godo. An en an, to in in in! Interpret it according to your own mind. I sang it according to how my heart brought it. I is me, you are you! I thought the song had an obvious anti-gikuyu undertone, but I still argued for its place in the classics of witty benga. And I forced my luo students to write papers on it and discuss with the non luos. An eye-opener. Be that as it may, Jakaswanga, the fact remains it is a work of hate as witty as it may seem. Back in my university days I did take an English course in which we did nothing but watch movies & then write about them. Usually the old black & white classics (Casablanca et al.). We would then analyze them as the course was rightfully called, Motion Picrture as Literature. So let's analyze your classic benga tune. Like Animal Farm you have to analyze it with the time in history when it was written in mind. As the Luo nation was reeling from the effects of Kibaki's trashing of the MOU when it was released in 2003, it's target is crystal clear. The monkeys who were busy killing off baboons before they were ushered into power with the assistance of the ploughing tractor are equally knowable if the historical context is kept in mind. Dehumanizing the "enemy" is a common phenomena in times of conflict. That's why you get the "bad guys" in different wars being referred to as the Jerry's (or the Huns), Gooks, Ragheads, etc. So when Misiani refers to outsiders as baboons or monkeys, it's clear to the IN group that they, being human, are above the sub-human OUT group (even though they happen to be ruled by them). The main criticism of the UK songs is that they do not even attempt to hide whom they are talking about behind poetry or allegory, & even go as far as using some of UK's quotes within the song. Your breaking down of the one tune going from seeking vengeance & blood to settling for forgiveness seems valid although you must keep in mind not all who listen to tales heed the moral of the story. Unlike Lincoln, I still maintain if Misiani could've been arrested for his song, then the latter day Kikuyu minstrels also deserve some time behind bars. Same government....same crime.... Anyway as the Tractor still ploughs on, let us hope it will bring hope to the land someday ;D
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Post by nalinali on Jun 26, 2012 22:46:40 GMT 3
Jakaswanga
Poetic license may be similar to profligacy, but both are certainly not on the scale of equivalence. At this testy period in Kenya’s ethnic politics, it would be unwise to pass some insidious, bigoted, genre blurring bricolage as art in its finest sense. The danger of clinging onto “intellectual certitudes” about what is permissible/not permissible as hate speech remains a sad indictment of our inability to recognize some signals injurious to nationhood even as they historically litter road. It is the odd time for liberal minds such as yours to take solace in smugness as it impoverishes the necessary sense of acuteness needed to disabuse our minds of the ahistorical benign feeling that, in matters of ethnicity, there is equilibrium.
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Post by mank on Jun 26, 2012 22:46:51 GMT 3
Hague Bound � Muigai Wa Njoroge and Muhiko ... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Now folks,
There is something going on in this song which goes beyong the primacy of fears of casual listeners. 1. Is the evolution from the first gut-wrenching I WOULD KILL HIM! To the last christianly I WOULD ASK GOD TO FORGIVE HIM.
This artist has therefore covered the complete range of responses in dire: from vengeful murder to biblic forgiveness. And in between, an evolutionary process of emotions. That is a message of letting anger thaw. WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE CALLING FOR ITS BANNING DO WITH THAT LINE OF FORGIVENESS? PRETEND IT AINT THERE?
And actually he keeps on saying what would you do. To conclude that says that is what we must do, or ought to be done??? Well said! I could not master the language fast enough but had the same observation pressing me.
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 26, 2012 23:00:54 GMT 3
[2]This is the benga equivalent of Animal Farm by george orwell, you silly Kenyans, a masterpiece in allegory and oral story telling with popular musical accompaniment. Kenyan politics is merely one prism. Tanzanian politics another. Local luo politics another. And then, that it is an allegory concerning contradictions only within Luo society itself as a whole, is beyond the scope of this condemnation! Suddenly what had looked a clear case of ethnic slur against kikuyus, bim en bim, appeared so multi-faceted that, to be high brow about it, the limited comprador consciousness which thinks the only interpretation is that of their class, revealed its complete unpreparedness to engage in a bit of thought out dialogue. Owino, to be fair said: kawe kaka wiyi iwuon lokoni godo. An bende awere kaka chunya okelona godo. An en an, to in in in! Interpret it according to your own mind. I sang it according to how my heart brought it. I is me, you are you! I thought the song had an obvious anti-gikuyu undertone, but I still argued for its place in the classics of witty benga. And I forced my luo students to write papers on it and discuss with the non luos. An eye-opener. Be that as it may, Jakaswanga, the fact remains it is a work of hate as witty as it may seem. Back in my university days I did take an English course in which we did nothing but watch movies & then write about them. Usually the old black & white classics (Casablanca et al.). We would then analyze them as the course was rightfully called, Motion Picrture as Literature. So let's analyze your classic benga tune. Like Animal Farm you have to analyze it with the time in history when it was written in mind. As the Luo nation was reeling from the effects of Kibaki's trashing of the MOU when it was released in 2003, it's target is crystal clear. The monkeys who were busy killing off baboons before they were ushered into power with the assistance of the ploughing tractor are equally knowable if the historical context is kept in mind. Dehumanizing the "enemy" is a common phenomena in times of conflict. That's why you get the "bad guys" in different wars being referred to as the Jerry's (or the Huns), Gooks, Ragheads, etc. So when Misiani refers to outsiders as baboons or monkeys, it's clear to the IN group that they, being human, are above the sub-human OUT group (even though they happen to be ruled by them). The main criticism of the UK songs is that they do not even attempt to hide whom they are talking about behind poetry or allegory, & even go as far as using some of UK's quotes within the song. Your breaking down of the one tune going from seeking vengeance & blood to settling for forgiveness seems valid although you must keep in mind not all who listen to tales heed the moral of the story. Unlike Lincoln, I still maintain if Misiani could've been arrested for his song, then the latter day Kikuyu minstrels also deserve some time behind bars. Same government....same crime.... Anyway as the Tractor still ploughs on, let us hope it will bring hope to the land someday ;D b6k,Habari za maziku I say? umepotea sana mpaka nikafikiri wa-al-shabab walipoteya na wewe. [Or you were the one Oloo was saying was having 3 spare handles ;D) This course of viewing images and studying content was a very good one you took. I was trying to do the same with my students using benga content [after being banned from identifying the misogynist content in classical european christian religious paintings.] But you know the school which says when dealing with art, good art, the content of hate itself does not devalue her artistic prowess. This is why Lehni Riefenstahl films glorifying Hitler at times contain rabid and demented anti-jewish hate, but nobody in cinematography doubts their artistic prowess, and technical divinity. [Especially triumph of the will]. And I am sure you are aware of the controversial Robinson Crusoe and his man Friday. A colonial allegory with the vision of the dark native as being a simple soul, that would be lost to civilization without the guiding hand of the benefactor white man. That it is well written and an artistic match is not in doubt. But the content is downright racist. It is a nuance, condemning the content whilst appreciating the technique. That Kenyans have not time for nuance is no reason to throw out the baby with the bathtub. But I get you pretty well. Much so, on the 'dehumanization' as an escalation. One needs a mental block to kill another without motive if one is no psychopath --so they have to be insects --sudan, roaches -rwanda, rodents --nazi germany, baboons -kenya. Before the work!
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 26, 2012 23:08:18 GMT 3
Hague Bound � Muigai Wa Njoroge and Muhiko ... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Now folks,
There is something going on in this song which goes beyong the primacy of fears of casual listeners. 1. Is the evolution from the first gut-wrenching I WOULD KILL HIM! To the last christianly I WOULD ASK GOD TO FORGIVE HIM.
This artist has therefore covered the complete range of responses in dire: from vengeful murder to biblic forgiveness. And in between, an evolutionary process of emotions. That is a message of letting anger thaw. WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE CALLING FOR ITS BANNING DO WITH THAT LINE OF FORGIVENESS? PRETEND IT AINT THERE?
And actually he keeps on saying what would you do. To conclude that says that is what we must do, or ought to be done??? Well said! I could not master the language fast enough but had the same observation pressing me. mank,I think the answer to jakaswanga's dilemma of what to do with "kill" and "ask god to forgive them" message is rather simple. Just kill the offending rascals then ask god to forgive them so they can go to heaven. Case closed. What is more fair than that. You send them to heaven instead of sending them to hell which is where they would go since they are not even circumcised in the first place. They should be happy with that. They are going to heaven not to hell. They should be thrilled. Why NOT? So if UHURU could only pray also for his victims then the 7 kids roasted alive in their house in Naivasha would be safely in heaven and we wouldn't be having this discussion and others who are having moral dilemma as to whether to condemn the hate mongers or not would be at peace with themselves. Easy solution, isn't it?
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 26, 2012 23:14:49 GMT 3
Jakaswanga Poetic license may be similar to profligacy, but both are certainly not on the scale of equivalence. At this testy period in Kenya’s ethnic politics, it would be unwise to pass some insidious, bigoted, genre blurring bricolage as art in its finest sense. The danger of clinging onto “intellectual certitudes” about what is permissible/not permissible as hate speech remains a sad indictment of our inability to recognize some signals injurious to nationhood even as they historically litter road. It is the odd time for liberal minds such as yours to take solace in smugness as it impoverishes the necessary sense of acuteness needed to disabuse our minds of the ahistorical benign feeling that, in matters of ethnicity, there is equilibrium. nalinali,it may amaze you to know that simple things, like officially being unable to tell the results of a presidential election, do much more to undermine national cohesion than the worst hate-monging song. You first have to wreck your nation politically, to create the fertile ground for selling hate. Your missive sounds like an attack on 'intellectualism'! or is it on liberal intellectualism? No, I just love the free human spirit, unpoliced by political priorities of the day. Jambo jambo bwana, karibu sana, kwetu kenya. kenya nchi yetu, hakuna matata ;D. kenya ber adiera, waherore ji duto!I can sing that one too, the mockery in mind of the fellow who wrote it always bends me over in laughter. When the gikuyu musician says: this is a message from God! Uhuru kende! are you telling me you do not see he is pulling legs?
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Post by mzee on Jun 26, 2012 23:18:35 GMT 3
Thanks to jukwaa ( I suppose) NSIS is now pretending to be investigating the hateful music. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ THE National Cohesion and Integration Commission has begun preliminary investigations against three Kikuyu musicians accused of propagating hate speech in their songs of praise for deputy Prime Minister Uhuru Kenyatta. Commission chair Mzalendo Kibunja told the Star yesterday that an official complaint was lodged with the commission last Friday. He said the commission had obtained the audio and video recordings of the songs. The musicians under investigation are Kamande wa Kioi, Muigai Wa Njoroge and John Demathew. The songs are Uhuru ni Witu (Uhuru is Ours) by Kioi, Hague Bound by Wa Njoroge and Mwaka wa Hiti (The year of the hyena) by Demathew. Kibunja said the commission will not hesitate to open charges against the three as well as any media which has been playing the songs if it is established that the songs have violated the National Cohesion and Integration Act, . The commission will also seek to ban the songs if they are found to promote hate speech. “We are waiting for an officially certified translation of the songs from a certified translator. The translation should be in by the close of business today or tomorrow and then we will announce next course of action. This is a very serious matter,” Kibunja said. He said the commission has contacted the Media Council of Kenya in a bid to get a log of all media enterprises which have been playing the songs. Section 62 of the Cohesion Act criminalizes the dissemination of hate speech. The songs have elicited mostly negative comments on social media with many condemning the sentiments as provocative and inciteful. Yesterday, the secretariat of Uhuru's TNA party condemned the songs through its Facebook page called 'Team Uhuru'. “We would like to strongly point out that if this is what certain vernacular musicians are doing, regardless of the language and community, we truly stand against it! Music in our respective languages is beautiful, but when corrupted for an agenda that disunites Kenyans, it's shameful," said Team Uhuru. "For the good of Kenya as a whole watch out for certain acts and base your votes on and NOT tribal affiliations/individuals,” said the Facebook post. Kioi's song Uhuru ni Witu consoles Uhuru over the ICC trials. The DVD contains splices of Prime Minister Raila Odinga, President Kibaki and retired President Moi indicating that they are in support of Uhuru succeeding Kibaki. It also shows the IDPs in camps and proceeding of the ICC trials at the Hague. The song says God will deal with the ICC and Uhuru should not get worried as it was just a passing cloud. "Greetings people of the house of Gikuyu and Mumbi. I bring you a message from all Kikuyu musicians. This is a message from God. Uhuru is the Moses of the Kikuyu nation. He is meant to move Kikuyus from Egypt to Canaan. Do not agree to be divided. Let all votes go to him. He is ours. He is anointed by God, poured oil on. Raila, there is a call. Go to Mama Ngina’s house, a king has been born there. Once there ask where Uhuru is seated and pour oil on him. Just like Samuel did for David in the Bible. Stop chasing the wind Agwambo, go to Icaweri and anoint Uhuru. You thump your chest about Hague, is Hague your mother’s? There is a curse from God. Philistines who do not circumcise cannot lead Israel. When Abraham stressed God, he was told to go get cut, even you General of Migingo, your knife is being sharpened," say some of the translated song lyrics.Wa Njoroge's Hague Bound song is presented as a question and answer narrative. Question: What if you knew that you are being pushed to the Hague by an uncircumcised man who wants to push you there and take over your wife and all your wealth? A man who can do anything to ensure you are in problems. Answer: Then it is better to die. Things for men are not governed by an uncircumcised man. I would kill him. Its better they increase my charges. Question: What would you tell your crying supporters as you are being shipped to the Hague?
Answer: I would tell them to pray for me and know I am being persecuted for my love of my community.
Question: When you get to Hague how you would ensure the white man does not cheat you?
Answer: I would ask for proceedings to be done in Kikuyu.
Question: When on the dock what would you be thinking of the uncircumcised man who is the source of your predicament?
Answer: I would ask God to forgive him. I would also ask that he gets circumcised so that he matures mentally. I would also ask Kenyans to be very wary of that man.Demathew's song Mwaka wa Hiti describes 2012 as the year of the hyenas. It cryptically refers to the tribulations of Uhuru, the son of Jomo. “As Demathew I prophesize and let the stones hear me if men won't. It is now the year of the hyena. Who will teach you and your ears are blocked? When a man is seated he sees further than a boy on top of a tree. You are like a greedy hyena seeing a man walk and following him hoping that his arm will drop off. You follow him till he boards the train and the arm does not drop and you never eat. Before Jesus was crucified, He stood in the court Judge Pilato and he answered all questions, Judge Pilato said Jesus is free but the crowd asked that a thief be freed instead.” Where are you from? If you were one of us, you would be pained by the people burnt in Kiambaa church. My brother lost his property in Kisumu, how can you tell us he is our community’s friend. Father I feel sad when I see your son being persecuted by men of ill-will and a woman is carrying their bags," sings Demathew. back to top www.the-star.co.ke/national/national/81891-ncic-probes-3-kikuyu-musicians
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 26, 2012 23:29:53 GMT 3
Adongo,
Now you see we have opened a door to the world of this artist in this song. And his song no longer looks that simple. You say case closed?
i say the man manages to herald two possible reactions, extremely oppositional, to a predicament. That is posing a classical dilemma, vengeance or forgiveness.
Also, it is possible that others now listening to the songs, in the light of these debates, discover other imports that have escaped us. These creative guys wouldn't be in the business if they only inhabited a one dimensional world. They would not be worth anybody's time. And by thunder they surrender not all their secrets easy.
Only problem is of course most folks have other things to do than follow these finer points. But the law does not have that excuse. The law will have to think itself through.
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