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Post by nok on Oct 18, 2012 14:06:23 GMT 3
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Oct 18, 2012 15:46:15 GMT 3
Orengo must be reading the signs of the day correctly. There is no chance in hell that Odinga and Nyong'o will allow Oburu to fail in his bid for the ODM ticket. The people seem to be with Orengo, but the party (read Raila) is with Oburu. This being Luo Nyanza, you obviously can guess how that one will end. Orengo must think hard, and do so now. |
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Post by raiswakesho on Oct 18, 2012 18:02:59 GMT 3
Orengo will be the 1st senator of Siaya county, folks can take this to the bank. All the noise is mere gutter press. ODM has stated clearly that there will be no direct nominations and secondly, RAO knows very well that Orengo is fixed Asset to the party and Oburu is just a current asset.
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Post by nereah on Oct 18, 2012 19:58:57 GMT 3
the siaya senate seat will, in my view, go to a woman candidate unless agwambo convince us otherwise.
that said, if given a choice to pick between orengo and oburu, i will pick dr oburu oginga for reasons that i am ready to debate with any member.
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Post by nok on Oct 18, 2012 21:40:01 GMT 3
the siaya senate seat will, in my view, go to a woman candidate unless agwambo convince us otherwise. that said, if given a choice to pick between orengo and oburu, i will pick dr oburu oginga for reasons that i am ready to debate with any member. 'i don't county Siaya" but the constitution begs 4 some Gender consideration. isn't there already a seat reserved for XX for the great county , so according to you Siaya ends up with no XY in the senate. back to you. I see a breach of the belvd document version 2010  |
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Post by nok on Oct 18, 2012 21:41:18 GMT 3
by the way:::
gutter press now says
Oburu has opted to leave the Kitchen ! ;D
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Mukwhasi
Full Member
Justice will live on ..
Posts: 180
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Post by Mukwhasi on Oct 19, 2012 1:48:50 GMT 3
Orengo will be our senator come march 4th 2013,this is a fact that Raila and the Odinga family must learn to live with .We now have independent candidates and so are many other political parties theirfor ODM elections board better tread very carefuly on this.
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Post by nereah on Oct 19, 2012 8:12:31 GMT 3
typos regretted nok and all, i premise my discourse on the orengo question in siaya politics on the title of this thread and in effect the assumption, false or truth. the decision of who becomes the senator for the greater siaya county should not be left to the chattering class(i say this neither lightly nor slightly)but for the electorate of the distinct clusters of bondo,rarieda,ugenya,gem and alego-usonga. there is a false impression being created that because oginga happens to be from the loins of jaramogi and that his brother is raila odinga, that he must suffer exclusion. lets say no to negotiated democracy, lets say no to intimidation and black mail and lets embrace the democratic ideal of one man ,one woman vote. i reject the false assumption that siaya which is my original home district must be the forerunner in senatorial race for simple reason that bondo will be producing the next president. the debate should be limited and confined to the credentials of orengo, dr oginga and other illustrious aspirants that have declared their interest in the seat like the sister below.  this orengo/oburu media supremacy contest at the expense of silent majority in the expansive county, is,as my sister in-law and lapsed jukwaa member, mrembo,was sharing a while ago,an attempt to intimidate other potential candidate and voters into voting for a particular candidate. rigging has many forms, one of which is unraveling in siaya county senator race ahead of the election. all that i am blubbering about this morning is that if orengo want to leave odm because he falsely believe dr oginga would run away with the victory, let him go like yesterday. inviting outsiders likes of otuoma to come and harangue at your senior colleague in a manner that suggest a blackmail to odm and flagrant violation of siaya county electorate democratic rights is also an afront to the people of bondo who have equal stake on siaya county. to make matters worse, orengo is also riding on the crest wave of personal vendetta that my hommie jakoyo ka midiwo has with his nephew,dr oginga.so those who care aboout orengo ought to advise him to first keep off from midiwo in his hustings for the senator seat.otherwise he could be wrongly or rightly perceived to be using midiwo to stir strife in the jaramogi family. this brand of politics was rejected by agwambo leadership for the kisumu with the jettisoning out of supremacists and allowing "outsiders" like rev. ken nyagudi(originally from gem) and now pakistani by extraction mp to be popularly mandated and also muhoroni constituency. note: may i go on record as stating that i am rooting for a sister to be democratically nominated by odm for the siaya senate seat not as a compromise candidate but as the ultimate candidate.
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Post by phil on Oct 19, 2012 10:52:10 GMT 3
From a macro-ODM point of view, and indeed from the eyes of the larger ODM fraternity, the Hon James Orengo starts as a hot favourite to emerge the winner of the ODM Senator ticket.
Considering the role of a senator as spelt out in the constitution, the Hon Oburu Odinga, with all due respect, is simply not cut for the emerging competitive politics of the new constitution. Oburu fades in comparison to the Hon Orengo both as member of parliament and also as a party foot soldier. Oburu's performance as an assistant minister of finance is nothing more than escorting the successive PNU ministers to deliver budget speeches.
In my view, Oburu should take voluntary retirement from politics. Otherwise the people of Siaya will retire him forcibly.
Those speaking of Jaramogi in this instance betray an ignorance of history because James Orengo is Jaramogi's first political son, even ahead of Raila himself.
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Post by mzee on Oct 19, 2012 11:42:56 GMT 3
Phil,
I agree with you in toto. There is no way on earth that Hon. Oburu Odinga can beat Hon. James “nyatieng” Orengo. I would like to add that James Orengo would even beat the likes of Hon. Anyang Nyongo if he decided to go for the senate seat in Kisumu. Those who are still talking about Oburu Odinga as the senator to be are completely deluding themselves. He would not be elected senator even if Raila campaigned for him full time. It’s a shame that Oburu would like to leave politics in shame by challenge Orengo Nyatieng.
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Post by kamalet on Oct 19, 2012 12:43:01 GMT 3
Whilst it might appear that Orengo is the more popular of the two candidates, perhaps what is important is the behaviour of Raila (and his supporters) in the process at the nomination stage. Can he risk family damnation or electoral damnation if he behaves irresponsibly?
Siaya may just be a pointer to the problems ahead for Raila in other parts of the country such as Nairobi's governorship!
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Post by nok on Oct 19, 2012 15:52:59 GMT 3
Whilst it might appear that Orengo is the more popular of the two candidates, perhaps what is important is the behaviour of Raila (and his supporters) in the process at the nomination stage. Can he risk family damnation or electoral damnation if he behaves irresponsibly? Siaya may just be a pointer to the problems ahead for Raila in other parts of the country such as Nairobi's governorship! It's one thing to have Nominationsanother to have free and fair Nominationsand absolutely imperative that the perception exists that Nominations are free and fairAt this jucture , Kamalet , i agree with you ! |
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Post by nok on Oct 24, 2012 16:24:46 GMT 3
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Post by bkichwa on Oct 24, 2012 18:26:21 GMT 3
the siaya senate seat will, in my view, go to a woman candidate unless agwambo convince us otherwise. that said, if given a choice to pick between orengo and oburu, i will pick dr oburu oginga for reasons that i am ready to debate with any member. Nereah, Interesting assertion above that you make regarding your choice between Orengo and Oburu. Now, I don't know much about Oburu to want to debate you on the matter. But I am interested in understanding why your above choice is so. My assessment of the two gents from my ignorant position as regards good knowledge of either them, readily points to Orengo as being a natural choice. Reason in turn being that he has more natural appeal, as he is more and better renowned in person, profession, intellect, etc. Over to you. Asante. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Oct 24, 2012 20:30:03 GMT 3
the siaya senate seat will, in my view, go to a woman candidate unless agwambo convince us otherwise. that said, if given a choice to pick between orengo and oburu, i will pick dr oburu oginga for reasons that i am ready to debate with any member. Nereah, Interesting assertion above that you make regarding your choice between Orengo and Oburu. Now, I don't know much about Oburu to want to debate you on the matter. But I am interested in understanding why your above choice is so. My assessment of the two gents from my ignorant position as regards good knowledge of either them, readily points to Orengo as being a natural choice. Reason in turn being that he has more natural appeal, as he is more and better renowned in person, profession, intellect, etc. Over to you. Asante. It was indeed an ugly scene. Nereah is being very economical with her review. A public show-down between Jakoyo and his [would be some form of] cousin Oburu. What is the problem? 1 . Orengo's candidature is viewed favourably across the board, all the way from Ukwala in Ugenya, traversing the county through Gem, Alego-Usonga, Yimbo all the way to Asembo and Lwanda Kotieno in Uyoma. And even in his own home turf of Sakwa, Oburu is a recognised dead wood. But he has blood pedigree. and royalty does not go down like a lamb. 2. Jakoyo in the beginning, when Orengo announced his bid, appeared calculatedly neutral, until much more witty and grassroots savvy operatives warned him his neutrality could only be explained by blood ties, nepotism, while popular opinion in his own home, Gem, was Orengo was by far the superior of Oburu. Midiwo risked sinking with Oburu! and suspicion was rife party mandarins could rig their man, Oburu, in; and it could easily be suspected he, by blood, was part of the beastly plot. 3. Jakoyo decided to go with his Gem people and support Orengo, with Oburu yelling betrayal in fury. Publicly, Jakoyo was forced to tell Oburu what he thought of him, which need not be guessed. But it was what the Oburu camp came up with to fight Orengo that told just how nasty things will get. 1. That Orengo has never supported Raila, save this time around.. 2. That Orengo was one of the young Luo turks, like Ochuodho, who strayed away from Agwambo. 3. That Orengo's loyalty then is circumspect! something about the woman in his life etc! Even Rarieda's Nicolas Gumbo who was the only MP from Siaya county in Oburu's camp could not stomach this kind of bullshit. Confronted by a radio reporter -- koro magi e siasa ma jotend Luo goyo to wadwaro golo ker? [so these are the kinds of politics Luo leaders engage in, while 'we' strive to produce the PORK?]--- Gumbo was lost for words. PS: The most interesting thing I heard from Siaya, was the call for Tuju to run for governor of Siaya county. And the logic? Bondo, consisting of Yimbo, Sakwa, Asembo and Uyoma, have no formidable candidates to run for anything Siaya wide. Gem, Ugenya, Alego-U, have a formidable line-up for every seat, and will sweep everything leaving Bondo empty handed! With Orengo deemed ubeatable for the senate and he is from NOT BONDO, balance would want a Bondo man/woman for the Governorship! Tuju being the best. The rest being what the Luos call, yawa bende nyalo dhiyo kode! [since power hates a vacuum, something will be found to fill it in]. But Tuju is off to better things, so yawa will dhi kode tu! |
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Post by nok on Oct 25, 2012 10:33:19 GMT 3
jakaswanga & dada nereah I, not being a descendant from Siaya but Misri appreciate the contribution. Now what I don't comprehend is the fact that, by and large, we in Kenya have all become cowards. Why do we fear competition, challenges from other opponents. Not only is this seen amongst the competitors themselves but we also see that even the referees ( Internal Party organs dealing with elections or the IEBC ) are dead scared, to make it even worse the spectators ( Oduor,Wanjiku, Kiprutos... ) have been infected by this cowardly syndrome. You hear; " this one wants direct nomination, and the other is burning midnight oil blackmailing , defecting, begging "sijui uniwachie" because I was the first to declare for the seat or am most senior this or that from region this or that .......e.t.c e.t.c My centi nusu is this : Get into the ring and fight. And those organizing the fight ( ODM ), let justice and fairness prevail. That is the only route. Hakuna ingine. All the other 'ma njias" to Rome have repercussions which will not be easy to deal with,
Kapish L
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Post by nereah on Oct 25, 2012 20:13:30 GMT 3
folks,
i am originally from gem, somewhere in the upper reaches of wagai and bondo is my adopted home.siaya happens to be the home county.
orengo's posturing evokes some disturbing memories to some of us..back to the days when he would rally the likes of otieno karan,otieno kopiyo and otieno makonyango to hurl epithets at agwambo and what he stood for. some of these mps who are no longer heard of even spoke unspeakable against the odinga family. any one who doubt me can check at the national archive.
today, orengo has not disassociated himself from what appears to be an orchestrated public ridicule on dr oginga who is the longest serving mp in siaya county.
yes,orengo is more famous than oburu and yes he can talk and walk on matters legal,democracy and good governance.but since charity begins at home, jim, scores abysmally.
dr oginga was the first to declare his candidature and orengo equivocated, almost not sure of what he wanted until my hommie jakoyo ka midiwo ;D who has personal issues against dr oginga lured orengo into his campaign against oburu.
we in bondo view the sustained attack on oburu by orengo through his allies like midiwo as a bitter reminder of the past similar public attrition war on the jaramogi family and what agwambo stands for by orengo.
another thing that bothers us is this posturing that borders on blackmail; the mistaken and false propaganda that of all the able souls in siaya, it is only orengo who must be the senator or else...
the level of interest that the orengo belated and curiously inspired assault on dr oginga's candidature is drawing from the raila hate society and nobody but raila brotherhood is also smacks of hidden agenda.
i am still encouraging anyone here in jukwaa including the lurkers who are reading this to impress on orengo the need to disassociate himself from jakoyo's frontal attack on the person of oginga as these attacks are billed on his political expenditure.
we in bondo are also against this notion that since agwambo is from bondo and is vying for presidency, oburu who is more senior than him and has been popularly elected by the people of bondo for all these years must be excluded from his democratic right as is anyone with the blood of jaramogi oginga coursing in the veins.
having said that let me go on record as stating that the siaya senate seat is not a reserve of dr oginga nor of orengo and the ultimate decision must be for the informed electorate who first and foremost believe in agwambo and what he stands for.
my prediction is that the people of siaya county would will settle on neither of the two people and most certainly vote in a woman unless agwambo and odm convince us otherwise.
unedited
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Post by raiswakesho on Oct 26, 2012 17:18:44 GMT 3
Nereah,
RAO should not advise you on who to elect as your 1st senator and neither should the people of Siaya vote Oburu simply because he was the 1st one to declare interest.
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Post by nereah on Oct 26, 2012 20:20:01 GMT 3
Nereah, RAO should not advise you on who to elect as your 1st senator and neither should the people of Siaya vote Oburu simply because he was the 1st one to declare interest. is the word not advise.agwambo convince me and rest of kenyans to vote for kibaki with the kibaki tosha call and we did.we needed good reason to vote kibaki instead of uhuru. the siaya county happens to be his home county too and he is an opinion leader who consults widely and hearken to the wisdom of the sages. did i say oburu deserve the siaya senate seat because he was the first one to declare his seat? what kind of democracy is that? |
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 26, 2012 20:36:57 GMT 3
I forget the details of some what happened in the 2007 elections, but wasn't Orengo rigged in at the nominations stage? If so doesn't he have a debt to the riggers?
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Post by raiswakesho on Oct 26, 2012 23:07:57 GMT 3
rais, convince is the word not advise.agwambo convince me and rest of kenyans to vote for kibaki with the kibaki tosha call and we did.we needed good reason to vote kibaki instead of uhuru. the siaya county happens to be his home county too and he is an opinion leader who consults widely and hearken to the wisdom of the sages. did i say oburu deserve the siaya senate seat because he was the first one to declare his seat? what kind of democracy is that? Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7476&page=2#ixzz2AR99lEIdNereah, My apology ... RAO should let these candidates fight it out democratically. I also realize that in as much as I like Hon. Orengo's politics, only Siaya people will have the final say on whether he becomes their 1st senator. Just one question, who do you think can effectively drive the ODM agenda in the senate, Oburu or Orengo? |
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Post by jakaswanga on Oct 27, 2012 12:25:03 GMT 3
I forget the details of some what happened in the 2007 elections, but wasn't Orengo rigged in at the nominations stage? If so doesn't he have a debt to the riggers? Yes, Otishotish, Orengo indeed was publicly reminded of his debts! And sometimes one can winch at the brutality with which the Luo remind their leaders of the power equations: 'Orengo in guo Raila! Kowacho inind piny, to inindo, ka guok moboch! Koso ng'ano ma noketi MP ma Ugenya?'[--Orengo you are Raila's dog! If he says on your belly, then flat you go, like a tamed dog! Or did you win Ugenya on your own powers?' {This is why I attend political rallies and always stand next to the manambas! that is when you hear what we call PINY-OWACHO! --akin to the truthful oracle of the god Apollo that made Delphi of Greece world famous!} I will also tell you, that decades ago when Raphael Tuju seemed to have forgotten how he beat Owiti Malo Malo first time around, the Kisumu mob thought it appropriate to remind him. It looked very much like the Orengo scene I describe above. The look on Tuju's face that day, was enough to inform keen observers, that for Tuju, this public humiliation was a price too high for his pride, and he wouldn't be coming back to the fold! ------------------------------------------------------------ THE CONFUSING CASE OF AGOSTINO NETO, ACTIVIST AND MP NDHIWA www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000066653&pageNo=1&story_title =This is how Neto roped himself like a wild gladiator caught in a net. When he joined a group of activists going to court to seek an opinion on chapter six, on whether Uhuruto could pass her stipulations, a partial mindset barred him from thinking through and recognizing the wider implications of the move. So when a second set of activists sought to have the INTERROGATION extended to include ALL PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES, Mr. Netto --now a candidate for Ndhiwa parliamentary seat-- and his ODM-leaning dim-wits, caught pants down, denounced the enjointment and hired Oraro to technically have it quashed. It was quashed by the court. But the knives in Luo Nyanza were already out for Mr. Agostino Netto. YET Everybody miscalculated. [1.] The grassroots still preferred Neto in spite of his so called attempt at Raila's life! [2]. Despite the hateful campaign --he is anti-Raila, Neto won the nominations. Unbelievably to many, including Ojode's widow. 20+ losers threatened to bolt to KANU or else. But there was a legal avenue to block Netto, and it was tried by his detractors with the blessing of the party machinery, until local operatives informed the party secretariat that to block the popular candidate would now be the real disaster. [Ojode had a reputation for independence, and Ndhiwa people are not Bondo people who adore sycophants]. A man we call 'Farsight' offered the Solomon's solution. Raila be given the credit for supporting the popular candidate, and his magnanimity be praised, --coz this candidate after all nearly entangled him in court. And Netto accept the [fake]public pardon from the boss, and recognize his debt of loyalty, of which tribute will be expected. In the wider South Nyanza area, we have taken bets on the independence of the mind of young Agostino Neto. Or is he, like Orengo, just nother debtor, who will be milked for loyalty declarations! |
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Post by nok on Nov 4, 2012 10:01:04 GMT 3
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jeff
Full Member
Posts: 137
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Post by jeff on Nov 4, 2012 11:58:08 GMT 3
How exactly is power sharing being to be achieved without compromising the ideals of democracy?
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Nov 4, 2012 17:00:38 GMT 3
How exactly is power sharing being to be achieved without compromising the ideals of democracy? Good question Jeff. When you listen to Raila's speech in Siaya you get the sense that he is determined to have Oburu at the apex of Siaya leadership. Now that there are only two positions (senator and governor), one can only conclude that Raila wants Orengo and Oburu to share the two out in total disregard of what the electorate might want. And that is democracy the ODM way. |
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