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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 18, 2012 10:59:17 GMT 3
THE FALL FROM GRACE OF GENERAL DAVID PATRAEUSA good scandal is always a metaphor, and I love a good scandals too. For instance when Queen Cleopatra of Egypt visited Roman 10-star General Julius Ceasar in Rome, more as his paramour, than as head of a sister state. And word went around that all the grave matters of state between Rome and Egypt were conducted in bed, these days. The ever imaginative senate concluded their hero had been bewitched by charms from Nubia! [there you have the genesis and subsequent notoriety of the word 'nubile'! Forget childish Lolita]There is also lecherous King David who could not stomach Uriah, the legal husband, having unrestricted access to Bethsheba for whom his heart lusted with a pathology. The King as CIC promptly dispatched Uriah to the front-line where the battle was thickest, and indeed Uriah perished, whereupon Davy boy became Bethy's terrorist ;D --as they would say in Luoland. God was very displeased with the scandal King. The mother of all scandals in state is of course the one from Greek Thebes, where a banished prince returns, unwittingly kills his father, the King, marries his mother and assumes full command of her womb, and brings a curse upon the Kingdom. There too in the USA was Lewinsky-gate, where a girl named Monny apparently smoked a cigar right out of President Clinton's pants, right in the oval office. Hillary is reported to have lost her tongue trying to argue a health-care bill through a coy congress. And Bill did not want lip service. Luckily intern Monica had a tongue-tying tongue. Therefore. And now again from Washington, there is this booty-gate scandal, named after a tabloid headline: DAVID IN THE LINE OF BOOTY, which has consumed the career of the most decorated American soldier of his generation, and has in addition frozen the career of his peer, Allen, who was tipped head NATO, the most high-tech, most fearsome military alliance in modern history. Ya, it is none other than the vastly talented and overachieving Patraeus, whose private court already referred to as Mr. President, beginning when it emerged Obama deferred to him in all matters Afghanistan and Iraq, who has committed political seppuku. Surely, the whole of America would soon come to agree Patraeus had it in him to be CIC, and the republican party, shy of talents of late, was already lobbying, making him see he was POTUS in waiting. In fact earlier on it was whispered the speed with which pretender Obama appointed him head of CIA had much more to do with political neutralisation than effective deployment of talent.But lust is a beast! it is not unusual in nature for males of certain species to trade their heads for it! literally! And it is not for nothing that an old Chinese saying goes: before a man cuts off his balls and becomes a eunuch, he will always be stumbling on his balls and going down. Meaning there is no such thing as a steely mind or resolve in the heat of an onslaught of lust.
So when lust came knocking at the decorated General's balls, an all-willing lust in the form of a broad well done by the almighty creator, his famed steely mind collapsed, his long-standing military discipline dissolved, his cautioned intelligence dissipated, and he went into the business of nakedness. Lust had beaten him pants down. Or All in, as the appropriately titled book by the highly welcoming hagiographer strip-teasingly puts it.
What remains now is a post-moterm on the body of American hypocrisy. Rudi Giuliani, John Edwards, Bill Clinton, they all were here before. Preaching water while drinking wine. The difference is Patraeus had this media image of a infallibility, the super-hero, the nearest thing to a god. The thing the heavens had ordered for God's country the USA in her days of depression after many futile Bush wars.
Alas, man-slaying David, like the other invincible tragic hero Achilles, had a soft spot not forged in armour. Cupido, like Paris, fired home.
The women who have brought this national hero down may face a very hateful blow-back from the American people, Angrywhitemanistan they call them these days after the second Kogelo win, those whose illusions have been so brutally shattered. The great soldier who would bring back the White House, now occupied by an alien, back to the American people, betrayed by ambitious socialites selling sin.
But let us face it. Scoring countless body bags of Afghans and Iraqis with drones and bombs as Patraeus has made a life of, is not as heart-warming and satisfying as being milked dry by Paula Broadwell in any which way!
A man with balls will agree. Ask James Bond! The worlds most famous spy has negotiated a special clause which allows him to fool around with any broad, even behind enemy lines. But it is all on patriotic duty. It can never be held against him.
But the silver lining in the horizon is that the General's wife is named Holly. With such a name surely must come an infinitely forgiving heart.
NB: Here below June 2010 General Petraeus collapsed during a congressional hearing, under the hard glare of senator McCain. Was then a subject of many jokes which have resurfaced.
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 19, 2012 1:10:06 GMT 3
Where are you going with this one, Jakaswanga? Is the general the first man, great or otherwise, to be unable to resist ... ? It's always been downhill ever since the Snake told Adam, "Take it from me, there is nothing sweeter". Is the general the first man that after years on the battle-front (corporate, military, government) decided to enjoy the last of the setting sun? But finally, there is good news for the male tribe. Scientific developments are under way that will finally put the small head permanently in its place, and never again will it rule over the big head. Go to this week's issue of the JOURNAL OF NEUROSCIENCE and look at the third article, halfway down the page here: www.jneurosci.org/content/32/46/i.fullIt's under "Behavioral/Systems/Cognitive". A proper scientific study. A couple of interesting bits: the chemical in question has no effect on single, horny fellows, but it works for attached ones; and we learn that men generally feel "uncomfortable" when an attractive woman is moving away from them. |
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Post by foresight on Nov 19, 2012 3:30:16 GMT 3
otishotish said "Scientific developments are under way that will finally put the small head permanently in its place, and never again will it rule over the big head"
Shameful indeed! Human beings have lost the power to control themselves to the extent that they are now turning to such things to curb their lack of self discipline extensively corroded by the lusts of their own hearts. Vile affections among men of "high honour" Married women no longer have scruples like the Generals mistress.
Men, leaving the natural use of the woman are now burning in their lust towards each other, thats the modern day human being for you! [mind of reprobates]
The evolved human is full of fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; envy, murder, deceit, malignity [Kasuku of Jukwaa is a victim], gossipers, backbiters, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, without natural affection, drunkeness, orgies implacable, unmerciful...
O modern day human, YOU ARE OF SUCH A LOW PEDIGREE!
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Post by mank on Nov 19, 2012 6:17:56 GMT 3
A man is a man ... not to agree with Toto Man here necessariy, but true. Pat is victim of society overreacting to what is human. If a soldier does his job, then what he gets on the side should be nobody's business .... if you disagree you better be the wife!
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Post by marikopolitico on Nov 19, 2012 17:14:52 GMT 3
Cant help but think how skewed the so called morality of these Western Countries is. There's only one 'victim' in this instance- the wife of Gen. Petraeus. Had the good general been African thsi wouldn't even have registered as a scandal. Then again the upside here is that Gen. Petraeus wasnt that good as a CIA Director. I mean if the man entrusted with guarding the deepest secrets of the world's 2nd most powerful country cant keep a spot of hanky panky out of the press then surely he aint qualified for the job!!  |
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 19, 2012 19:36:29 GMT 3
Where are you going with this one, Jakaswanga? How about here below?? THE FALL FROM GRACE OF GENERAL DAVID PATRAEUSWhat remains now is a post-moterm on the body of American hypocrisy Why is so culturally embedded, that Anglo-Saxon public morality is such a nuisance? maybe like me they just enjoy a good scandal. And the best way to generate perfect scandals is to make stupid codes about sex and swear to live by them! Have you seen the military code on sex the Gen. purported to enforce on his officer core at the army? 'Thou shall not stare at butt, however well-formed and rotating within sight! An should you stare by mistake, thou shall think nothing! --except god bless America!' Now, otishotish, why would a graduate of prestigious Princeton take that kind of thing seriously, and ask half a million men to take them seriously? Maybe his biographer decided to find out if he meant any of this sh!t! and indeed he didn't! But why the need for public pretense? ----------- there is another neurological research which says as testosterone levels increase, such as is necessary in these kind of elite jobs, men undergo psychological changes which make them highly susceptible to illusions about themselves and the world. --For instance, risks which are plainly stupid to others, become reasonable to them. They believe themselves supermen, capable of fooling or brow-beating lesser men. And then shit happens! well, it is just another psycho-neurological theory! they come a dime a dozen! [testosterone everywhere! even in academic labs!]. About Jukwaa I wouldn't dare speculate! ;D |
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 20, 2012 17:36:57 GMT 3
Where are you going with this one, Jakaswanga? How about here below?? THE FALL FROM GRACE OF GENERAL DAVID PATRAEUSWhat remains now is a post-moterm on the body of American hypocrisy Jakaswanga: I don't think the issue is that the man was giving his stiff end some extra exercise. The issue is that he showed poor judgement and engaged in a "blackmailable" activity. Some years ago, the intelligence services in my Other Country contacted me while they were in the process of vetting my former best buddy from university days. (I don't know how they found me, because I had lost touch with the fellow.) From their questions, I understood that they were seeking to determine whether my buddy had ever done or was doing anything for which he could be blackmailed, whether he had done or was doing anything that could lead to poor judgment, etc. The questions included secretly cheating on spouse, patterns or heavy drinking or drug use, a bad gambling habit, etc. I imagine that they would not have recruited the general had he been applying to join. Keep in mind that the lure of ding-dong, followed by threats of blackmail and compromise, has long been used by spooks, especially the Russians during the Cold War. We know that it works very well. For me, what is interesting is, once again, the differences between how other countries run their affairs and how we run ours. As someone has already pointed out, in Africa we would not make a big deal of it. Of course, when it come to matters of government, "this is how we do it in Africa" has never been a particularly strong recommendation. A particular point of comparison is in the "independence" and "adherence to the law" of an oranization like the FBI. Think about whether any of the following steps could happen: * A lady in Machakos goes to a local CID fellow and reports that Gichangi's mistress is threatening her. * The CID fellow contacts HQ in Nairobi, and they investigate Gichangi, finding that he has been having a bit on the side and using his hotmail account to send all sorts of things. * They report to Gichangi's boss, and Gichangi resigns. In Kenya, the guy in Machakos would probably have run off to Gichangi, who would then have arranged for the lady to disappear. We can even go back 40 years and look at the FBI investigating Nixon. Would our CID investigate Kibaki? |
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 20, 2012 19:54:38 GMT 3
Jakaswanga: I don't think the issue is that the man was giving his stiff end some extra exercise. The issue is that he showed poor judgement and engaged in a " blackmailable" activity. For me, what is interesting is, once again, the differences between how other countries run their affairs and how we run ours. As someone has already pointed out, in Africa we would not make a big deal of it. Of course, when it come to matters of government, " this is how we do it in Africa" has never been a particularly strong recommendation. Otishotish, I am also an avid student of comparative moralities pitying the way we do things in Africa, and the way others yonder do theirs. When I was young, they used to say, in response to Time is money, There is no hurry in Africa. That was when I decided I would obey the Luo saying wuothi eka ine, and travel around to see how other places looked like, where folks believed time is money and were subsequently in a permanent hurry, and consequently permanently breathless! Take a look at this: Sometime back, a German financial newspaper published a photo of the parking bay at the Institute of Monetary studies in Nairobi. The whole GOK elite was in caucus on what to do NOT about mass starvation in Turkana amongst other counties, a fact which spokesman Alfred Mutua had of course denied, BUT about some other more pressing matter! There were more than 200 top of the range Mercedes Benzes. The German paper further offered the information --apart from the cash costs of the limousines, that New Zealand had offered to free dog-meat to save the starving, and that Kiwi dog-meat was nutritionally very sleek! The paper commented: from the look of the car park, GOK is a blessing to Germany. But it is a pity that German industry has to rely on this kind of decision makers. While their people die, and are too poor to afford even rotten-meat, it does not occur to any of these highly educated people to buy cheaper cars, German Volkswagen for instance, and with the saved money, buy dog food for their starving people!This paper recognises the idea of buying human food for their starving citizens is an idea outside the thinking capacity of African bureaucracies! Perhaps it would be better if Germany exported decision makers to Africa instead of Mercedes Benzes! I was asked whether I thought this was racist. I shrugged and said I thought it was a bull's eye shot!
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But on poor judgement. Why do you think it was not poor judgment for President Mitterrand of France to have to have a side-dish, and even have kids with her like Kibaki and Wambui?
He just owned up, no secrets, and the secret services of France could keep tabs on the other women! No possibility of blackmail. Because there is no secret!
Why is it impossible for an American like Petraeus to say, to the FBI for instance: hey guys, give this broad a security check up, i want her for naked national duty. Is she clean?
Chirac was no different. I hear within the french security service, there is a department called pimpers paradise: these guys vet women who may be invited to the Elysee to serve Great France in glorious clothelessness. And such occasions tend to be many, depending on the character [sanguinity or corpulence we call it here] of the occupant of course!
Is it a scandal? Not in France. They thought about it and decided they could do without the hypocrisy.
Yap! no junior officer would have the balls to investigate Gichangi, even if he himself saw Gichangi forcing Kerubo to drink her own piss in broad daylight at city mall park! ;D |
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 20, 2012 21:03:26 GMT 3
I was asked whether I thought this was racist. I shrugged and said I thought it was a bull's eye shot!
And who said Luos should not make money? Didn't you hear of the Mau Mau guy who refused to come out of the forest? ;D I believe it's simply a matter of culture, which, I suppose, could be translated into hypocrisy, although I don't consider it hypocrisy that cultural norms should vary by nation. In France, having a bit on the side would not normally be considered a "blackmailable" thing, and this is historicaly so. Go back in French history, over hundreds of years, and you will find that this was the norm for the aristocracy: marriages were for the purpose of having children, climbing the social or professional ladders, etc., and it was the norm for both man and wife to have a bit on the side. The non-aristocratic classes then got in on the act: any man who could afford it was expected to have a mistress. Even today, I am astonished by the openness with which some of my French friends will discuss their "extra-curricular" activities. I agree with you that things in the USA, for people like the general, would be very different if they could cheerfully pre-empt trouble by admitting to their mischief, but that sort of thing does not appear to be possible there. Kibaki's case, on the other hand, is different, since Kenyans would probably not care much abiout it. But he is accountable to the highest of of all high powers known to man: a tough wife. So, quite sensibly, he will not go there. The point I am trying to make is that what is poor judgmement in one place need not necessarily be poor judgement in another place, and this is true for many things other than extra ding-dong. |
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 20, 2012 21:44:21 GMT 3
Jakaswanga: I don't think the issue is that the man was giving his stiff end some extra exercise. The issue is that he showed poor judgement and engaged in a " blackmailable" activity. For me, what is interesting is, once again, the differences between how other countries run their affairs and how we run ours. As someone has already pointed out, in Africa we would not make a big deal of it. Of course, when it come to matters of government, " this is how we do it in Africa" has never been a particularly strong recommendation. Otishotish, I am also an avid student of comparative moralities pitying the way we do things in Africa, and the way others yonder do theirs. When I was young, they used to say, in response to Time is money, There is no hurry in Africa. That was when I decided I would obey the Luo saying wuothi eka ine, and travel around to see how other places looked like, where folks believed time is money and were subsequently in a permanent hurry, and consequently permanently breathless! Take a look at this: Sometime back, a German financial newspaper published a photo of the parking bay at the Institute of Monetary studies in Nairobi. The whole GOK elite was in caucus on what to do NOT about mass starvation in Turkana amongst other counties, a fact which spokesman Alfred Mutua had of course denied, BUT about some other more pressing matter! There were more than 200 top of the range Mercedes Benzes. The German paper further offered the information --apart from the cash costs of the limousines, that New Zealand had offered to free dog-meat to save the starving, and that Kiwi dog-meat was nutritionally very sleek! The paper commented: from the look of the car park, GOK is a blessing to Germany. But it is a pity that German industry has to rely on this kind of decision makers. While their people die, and are too poor to afford even rotten-meat, it does not occur to any of these highly educated people to buy cheaper cars, German Volkswagen for instance, and with the saved money, buy dog food for their starving people!This paper recognises the idea of buying human food for their starving citizens is an idea outside the thinking capacity of African bureaucracies! Perhaps it would be better if Germany exported decision makers to Africa instead of Mercedes Benzes! I was asked whether I thought this was racist. I shrugged and said I thought it was a bull's eye shot!
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But on poor judgement. Why do you think it was not poor judgment for President Mitterrand of France to have to have a side-dish, and even have kids with her like Kibaki and Wambui?
He just owned up, no secrets, and the secret services of France could keep tabs on the other women! No possibility of blackmail. Because there is no secret!
Why is it impossible for an American like Petraeus to say, to the FBI for instance: hey guys, give this broad a security check up, i want her for naked national duty. Is she clean?
Chirac was no different. I hear within the french security service, there is a department called pimpers paradise: these guys vet women who may be invited to the Elysee to serve Great France in glorious clothelessness. And such occasions tend to be many, depending on the character [sanguinity or corpulence we call it here] of the occupant of course!
Is it a scandal? Not in France. They thought about it and decided they could do without the hypocrisy.
Yap! no junior officer would have the balls to investigate Gichangi, even if he himself saw Gichangi forcing Kerubo to drink her own piss in broad daylight at city mall park! ;DWhen I read the title of this thread, the immediate view I formed was, it was one of your obsessions with sex scandals, and I gave it a wide berth. I knew you would concentrate on women and the mischievous General. By the way, he may have thrown the towel because of the influence of Evangelism in the USA where they frown upon sexual misdemeanours. Reading the thread today, I saw a comment attributed to you which to me seemed to demean Africans. If that true, then I think is unfortunate you took that view. There will be difference between the African moduli of governance and the rest of the world because Africa has its own specific 'issues' to address. Many Africans have the misfortune of dealing with multi-prong difficulties - stemming from ages of colonialism, and so on. It will take concerted effort, consistency and patience to overcome those hurdles. You talked about starvation - that is a complex issue whose causation cannot be squarely be placed on the Africans. As many have said before, leadership is a major deficit. Good leadership has been hampered by tribalism, corruption and so on. One would not therefore say the panacea we are all looking for is nigh - but, equally, downplaying and demean us would not aid our transformation to the chosen land. For example, your comment on the animal feed given to starving Africans was simply below the belt. However one looks at it, that suggestion was racist - I dare say such offer would not be made to starving 'whites' many of whom could be found in the streets of New Zealand. Why would that which is not good for their people be magnificent meal to ours? Is it because we are Africans? |
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 21, 2012 20:34:46 GMT 3
JakaswangaReading the thread today, I saw a comment attributed to you which to me seemed to demean Africans. If that true, then I think is unfortunate you took that view. Can you, Sadik, quote that comment which seems to you to demean Africans? Or is it like everything here www.one.org/c/us/issuebrief/98/ EG: With near 16% of world population, Africa counts for less than 4% of global trade! [fine with you as a fact?] Subhaharan Afrika is the poorest region on earth [this is a measurement of the poverty of inhabitants! not the availability of resources!]. When you go through statistics from say any UN agency, and Subsahara tops the charts, inversely, is that what you mean by demeaning? Man, you better graduate into calling a spade a spade. Consistent poor decision making over decades results outright in nightmares like the Congo we have now, or our PEV of 2008. Still blaming colonialism? Everybody else has their own unique issues to adress! excuses do not get lamer than that one Sadik! That is just being an apologetic for disastrous misrule by idiots. Blaming rigged elections on colonialism! like Gbagbo refusing to quit power and plunging his country into war? Kibaki swearing himself thievingly and the country exploding in refusal? Colonialism my foot! You are digging up dead bogeymen! Massive food production technology is now an ABC thing. No rocket science there. So perhaps what it needs to feed the nation is merely will power to make the decision, and effect it. No rocket science. Leadership is a major deficit. Yap, How do you define the deficit? is this not being a tard less brainy than elsewhere where there has been no leadership deficit? And where there has been a sustained protocol of making the good decisions for the collective over successive governments? --That is how I understood the Germans. You find it demeaning to be told it is better to buy volkswagens for your ministers and afford food for the population, than buy Mercedes limos and let the population starve? --I go with the Germans any day! NB: When Museveni or some other African despot wanted a free presidential jet, A German journalist found him silly, wanting to run before he could even crawl, being a beggar. M7 was irate! WHO ARE YOU? he thundered. I am a taxpayer who can publicly disagree with stupid methods of spending his sweaty coins! The German government you are begging from, gets the money from our pockets! AND WHO ARE YOU? FOOL TO SHOUT AT ME, A GERMAN IN GERMANY? --the hot German responded. Josker Fischer, then green foreign minister, who was hosting the session had his wits about him. He mused: Guys, he will be buying enough mercedez benzes to keep Germans at work, enough to earn his presidential jet! Trust me! When it comes to food and starvation. I do not take nonsense from well fed comfis, because I have been to camps where folks resorted to cannibalism to survive. If somebody would have bombarded the camp with dog-meat, folks would have killed one another to get to eat it. Starving on the streets of New-Zealand where one can go behind a MacDonalds and fish out loads of still warm half-eaten burgers from from overflowing bins, is a different thing altogether from starving in Turkana with vultures drawing near by the hour. Come sunset, they set upon you, un dead.  I bet he will eat New-Zealand dogshi!t if you served it! |
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 21, 2012 21:23:44 GMT 3
It is possible that one side-effect of colonialism is that we cannot use our heads for our own good. 50 years have gone by. Perhaps in another 50, i.e. after a total of 100 years, we will have progressed. Maybe we will have artifical heads that can make better decisions. In the meantime, as His Excellency would tell us, kazi iendelee.
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 21, 2012 22:57:22 GMT 3
I neither apologise for, nor excuse our failures. I make a determined effort to understand why, where and when the cookie crumpled and venture into tackle the issues. But, I do that respecting that there are many among my people who through no fault of their's cannot be blamed of those problems that bedevil them.
First, I find it disgusting that you would load a picture of a starving child which seem to please you while using it to put forward your point of view. Was that really necessary? How macabre? Could you not have made your point without that picture? What has that dying child ever done to you that you could never grant it some dignity in its hour of need!
Turning to the issues of discussion, it is shame you don’t understand the legacy of colonialism, which I think certainly is the biggest factor when one discusses the poverty-ridden Africa. Moreover, a good portion of Africa went from colonialism immediately to Cold War battle ground, it's not surprising that they are where they are now. I note there are other factors like disease and tribal/ethnic/sectarian conflict that I understand played its role. If one doesn't comprehend the contribution made by those factors to the problem of poverty for example, then I shudder the thought that one will ever participate meaningfully in seeking solutions.
Add to this that, colonialism is still going rather strong in Africa, only it operates under the guise of multinational corporate interests instead of state governments. So yeah, African nations have lots of resources, but aren't allowed to use them for their own benefit. The simple factors is political leaders in third world resource rich nations who oppose multinational corporate business interests don't seem to last too long. Thomas Sankara springs to mind, but hey, one needs to fetch information to understand the ramifications.
Take Nigeria, for example. Nigeria has the 11th largest stash of oil reserves in the world, is the 8th biggest oil exporter in the world. Most oil-producing nations have a state run oil agency that uses oil revenue to give everyone in their country health care, build infrastructure and so on. Venezuela is one but not Nigeria. Foreign oil corporations own their oil (Shell and Chevron), and give some massive bribes to corrupt government officials, but the Nigerian people don't get much of anything from it. This led to forced evictions of local populations living over the oil fields, and subsequent civil war. It wasn't until 2001 that the new Nigerian "democratic" government put in a "Nigerian Delta Development Commission" to rectify the disparity. It hasn't done much of anything other than some greenwashing. The Nigerian Delta is still in a civil war of locals vs. oil workers.
Now, turning to Kenya. Granted that Kibaki stealing an election is a sign of bad governance. But, what have we as a people done about it? We have let outsiders reconcile us, put in place their own self-interest programme – the rivals sharing power. Kisumu got its city status and we all jumped in joy – and to many the power sharing deal seemed to be the ‘trophy’ they were looking for, few of our people get plum govt positions, and the enemies immediately turned buddies, eating together. Who do we then blame?
As I said before, there are huge issues to tackle, and I belief the best option is first to understand the problem before proffering solutions. It is simply folly and condescending to do otherwise.
I’m proud to be an African and I know I’m capable like anyone else to have fulfilling joyful existence and determine my own destiny. All i ask is to be left alone with my fate, just like the Maya, the Indus or the Norte Chico. If left alone, I could rebuild Timbuktu and reincarnate Abyssinia.
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 22, 2012 20:48:55 GMT 3
I will just chuckle at this one. We have been here: What now, beyond Frantz Fanon? it is a discussion beyond the scope of those who believe in any God! [The Christian God and Islamic God having been dismissed by poet Okot p'Bitek as poisons injected by vipers from beyond to incapacitate the soul/vigour of the 'native'!
Colonialism and its legacy? it is just folklore now Sadik. Anybody still hung on it is simply frozen in far back time and refused to evolve along with the rest. When I teach history now I tell them lads that is the lazy option to explain current failures, more thinking please!
Or do you really think anybody serious would try to explain, even by the remotest reference to colonialism, the failure of Nigeria today to even have and run a single national oil corporation? why did not that same colonialism prevent her from producing some of the best literati? novelists and poets?
When you write things like: Africans are not allowed to use these resources... or we [Kenyans] allowed foreigners to reconcile us with their own self interests! is that not the same condescending thing you so abhor --Africans are like children waiting be allowed to exploit their own resources! and Kenyans are just side issues in the determination of their future, willing fully surrendering the mechanics of the GCG to 'colonialists! What kind of people are you describing here? if not those of a lesser god! led by an inferior breed of angels?
Look at your friend Nowrojee arguing chapter six, the integrity chapter, does not bar heavy duty suspects from candidacy to the presidency! Me? I do not need to quote a law before I set on fire an adult found molesting a minor!
I am told there are cultural clauses to some laws, and whole sections of heavy duty jurisprudence elsewhere, which allow a 50 year old man to marry and have intercourse with a child of 8. Happens everyday in Yemen and Afghanistan amongst other Holy lands! Animals!
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The photo, won a Pulitzer, is one of the most disturbing images to have emerged out of Afrika. It is a metaphor too, like a good sex scandal. This thing called reality is too much for you?
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 22, 2012 21:05:49 GMT 3
[ JakaswangaWhen I read the title of this thread, the immediate view I formed was, it was one of your obsessions with sex scandals, and I gave it a wide berth. I knew you would concentrate on women and the mischievous General. Formed an immediate view, and proceeded to know....!! ;D Be a better lawyer, Omera! Do not be prejudiced by your presumptions, such that you are pre-conclusive and pre-judgmental. Wait to go through the presented evidence, then think, that you may reach a sustainable deduction! [metaphor??] But on second thoughts, it appears you had a change of mind and came through, despite you knowing that I only do red-light district stuff, and those tend to be adults only! I will assume an irresistible voyeurism demolished the chastity belt of your conservative morality, forcing you to wander into this Sodom and Gonorrhea thread! Did you know this: That for Christians, even fallen ones like yours truly, the story of Adam, Eva and the Snake, is the original sex scandal! The next one is that of the Angel Gabriel. He stole unto the womb of Chaste Mariah, did business and left the carpenter David to take care of the rest!
I wont be seekinga therapist to wean me off my obsession with ... metaphors?/ |
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Post by mank on Nov 22, 2012 21:18:26 GMT 3
I will just chuckle at this one. We have been here: What now, beyond Frantz Fanon? it is a discussion beyond the scope of those who believe in any God! [The Christian God and Islamic God having been dismissed by poet Okot p'Bitek as poisons injected by vipers from beyond to incapacitate the soul/vigour of the 'native'!
Colonialism and its legacy? it is just folklore now Sadik. Anybody still hung on it is simply frozen in far back time and refused to evolve along with the rest. When I teach history now I tell them lads that is the lazy option to explain current failures, more thinking please!
Or do you really think anybody serious would try to explain, even by the remotest reference to colonialism, the failure of Nigeria today to even have and run a single national oil corporation? why did not that same colonialism prevent her from producing some of the best literati? novelists and poets?
When you write things like: Africans are not allowed to use these resources... or we [Kenyans] allowed foreigners to reconcile us with their own self interests! is that not the same condescending thing you so abhor --Africans are like children waiting be allowed to exploit their own resources! and Kenyans are just side issues in the determination of their future, willing fully surrendering the mechanics of the GCG to 'colonialists! What kind of people are you describing here? if not those of a lesser god! led by an inferior breed of angels?
Look at your friend Nowrojee arguing chapter six, the integrity chapter, does not bar heavy duty suspects from candidacy to the presidency! Me? I do not need to quote a law before I set on fire an adult found molesting a minor!
I am told there are cultural clauses to some laws, and whole sections of heavy duty jurisprudence elsewhere, which allow a 50 year old man to marry and have intercourse with a child of 8. Happens everyday in Yemen and Afghanistan amongst other Holy lands! Animals!
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The photo, won a Pulitzer, is one of the most disturbing images to have emerged out of Afrika. It is a metaphor too, like a good sex scandal. This thing called reality is too much for you? For once I feel like the best I can do is just cheer! You have a way with words and imagery, Jakaswanga! You are most certainly right about the impression of that picture. The first moment I saw it I was so mixed in emotion, I felt guilty looking in the mirror. But I do not agree with you in totality about the connection of colonialism and where we are. We cannot attribute all failures to colonialism, but it certainly has a role. Colonialism changed our native civilization. Then as we walked out of it, already shackled by the new civilization which we did not well grasp, we were left colonized by our own, who in a big way were chosen for us by the very colonialism. So as we trusted that we had gotten our nations back, those at the helm of governance were not really like us; they were more like the very colonialist we fought, but these became even more dangerous because it is not only that they can camouflage like the chameleon, but they even hold the power to say who the hunted should be. Its no longer the times we knew the enemy by his colour ... and the enemy still holds the power to decide whether another public road is as important as another hike on the salaries and bonuses of the colonialist-within. |
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 22, 2012 22:10:28 GMT 3
When you write things like: Africans are not allowed to use these resources... or we [Kenyans] allowed foreigners to reconcile us with their own self interests! is that not the same condescending thing you so abhor --Africans are like children waiting be allowed to exploit their own resources! and Kenyans are just side issues in the determination of their future, willing fully surrendering the mechanics of the GCG to 'colonialists! What kind of people are you describing here? if not those of a lesser god! led by an inferior breed of angels? Jakaswanga: This need for permission is why I have argued that we should just ask for voluntary re-colonization; to avoid the "stigma" of the word "colonization", we'll call it "outsourcing of national government". Take, for example, the example of foreigners bribing Nigerians et al. Apparently the Nigerians have no control over themselves. They cannot refuse bribes, however rich they may already be. I once read a story alleging that Sani Abacha had salted away $5 billion from his country. I thought that was a fanciful story---tens or hundreds of millions, yes, but billions?!? Then his son got arrested and jailed, and his wife publicly offered to return almost $3 billion if he was set free. I don't know how one explains that scale of theft .... very powerful foreigners putting a gun to one's head and saying keep stealing or else? .... Clearly the only solution is to beg the foreigners to stop or to ask them to take care of us while they plunder. Your friend writes that "It wasn't until 2001 that the new Nigerian "democratic" government put in a "Nigerian Delta Development Commission" to rectify the disparity. It hasn't done much of anything other than some greenwashing". Now, that's obviosuly the fault of those dastardly foreigners. By the way, have you read Chinua Achebe's "The Trouble With Nigeria"? It's an interesting read, especially because he appears, or at least claims, to know a thing or two about the place. For the most part, he's missed the dastardly foreigners. Perhaps they bribed him with money from Nigerian oil? The dirty, rotten bastards! That kid-and-vulture photo is the kind "we" don't particularly care for. But ... just about a year ago, we were begging for food in a drought. Again. Complaining that "the international community must do something". We are now over that particular hump, but have you heard of any plans to deal with the next drought? When the next drought comes along, as usual we will act as though it is the first one ever. I won't say much more on this: it's like a game we play every 2 years or so, so I'm sure you know how it goes. In the meantime we elect some of the world's best paid legislators, who at every turn try to squeeze more out of us. As we approach the elections, many of us are thinking about the 2007-2008 PEV. Rapes, murders, mutilations, population displacement. I didn't see many foreigners involved in that, but I think it's just a matter of time before we uncover their dirty hands. Whenever I look at Kenya, all I see is Kenyans doing things to Kenyans. In fact, when I talk to Kenyans at home, they can clearly point out who's doing the doing. For example, I just got off the phone with a relative (in a rural area) who was asking me to send him some money so that he can pay a bribe that the headmaster is demanding to enroll his kid in the local school. Apparently this is how one accesses free education in Kenya. He was quite bitter as he related to me the usual story of having to bribe just about everywhere for any kind of GoK service. It is a story we all know, but in this case the bitterness was perhaps increased by the fact that the bribe-takers are mostly people we know well---grew up with them, or went to school with them, or are related to them, ... I sympathized and didn't think it the right time to explain that in fact all these people are controlled, by remote, by foreigners whose mission in life is to keep us down so that they can get our natural resources or just because they are perverse. A little story: Many years ago, when the USA had to battle Aideed in order to feed millions of starving Somalis, I went to a meeting called by the African Friendship Society of my local town in my Other Country. Somalis, other Africans, and local do-gooders spent hours denouncing the USA and USSR. The problem, we were told, is that this pair had left too many weapons in that place, and so the people had decided to use them on themsleves. At some point, I told them another little story. This one was about how one of my relatives----grandfather or other family relic---had, fairly early on, joined the colonial security forces in Kenya. He and his lot were lot not allowed guns, on the grounds that "Africans were like children and would only hurt themselves" .... So, I asked this meeting: OK, somebody gave them guns, but does that mean that they have to use them on each other? Self-control, anyone? I was invited to leave, on the basis that I had insulted Somalis (and other Africans). Thereafter, my invitations to events of the African Friendship Society always got lost in the mail. As for Somalia, we know which way it went when even the most hard-boiled foreigners decided it was a Mission Impossible. Since we can neither control ourselves nor others---the "medicine" and accompanying "remote control" that the foreigners have is just too strong for us---why not just let the others be in charge? They could get things like the railway working again ... Alternatively, perhaps the AU could, via the UN Security Council, ask, once and for all, that we be allowed to do things for our own good. |
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 22, 2012 23:10:26 GMT 3
[ JakaswangaWhen I read the title of this thread, the immediate view I formed was, it was one of your obsessions with sex scandals, and I gave it a wide berth. I knew you would concentrate on women and the mischievous General. Formed an immediate view, and proceeded to know....!! ;D Be a better lawyer, Omera! Do not be prejudiced by your presumptions, such that you are pre-conclusive and pre-judgmental. Wait to go through the presented evidence, then think, that you may reach a sustainable deduction! [metaphor??] But on second thoughts, it appears you had a change of mind and came through, despite you knowing that I only do red-light district stuff, and those tend to be adults only! I will assume an irresistible voyeurism demolished the chastity belt of your conservative morality, forcing you to wander into this Sodom and Gonorrhea thread! Did you know this: That for Christians, even fallen ones like yours truly, the story of Adam, Eva and the Snake, is the original sex scandal! The next one is that of the Angel Gabriel. He stole unto the womb of Chaste Mariah, did business and left the carpenter David to take care of the rest!
I wont be seekinga therapist to wean me off my obsession with ... metaphors?/ By the way, Jakaswanga, you'd like the lawyers representing (in his latest legal "scandal") Strauss-Kahn, former head of the IMF, Pillar of The Community, and potential president of France. He does not deny particpating in numerous orgies involving prostitutes, but he denies encouraging prostitution. His lawyers have mounted a vigorous and logical defence: Yes, our client was present at the parties. And, yes, he partook of the full fare. But he was surrounded by nude women from all walks of life. He does not have, and it is unreasonable to expect that he should have, the ability to distinguish between a naked hooker and any other kind of naked woman. |
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 23, 2012 13:33:40 GMT 3
Jakaswanga
Sometimes I think we are the worse enemies to ourselves. See how I’m being attacked left, right and center, my only ‘crime’ standing for my, or rather, our people. Who needs enemy when one has this lot with him!
My main interest here is to understand why we are poor, and I believe to reach an answer crucially one needs to interrogate how come we are where we are at the moment.
You, and your side-kick, talk of Nigerian novelists and poets. Despite their popularity, their ‘product’ is not equal in terms in economic wealth to oil. I believe that is how many toil in the West seeking sustenance. You need to understand that having oil changes the attention one gets from Imperialist in geopolitics. Iran is a major example. One could say candidly that the aggression and war fought at the moment are because of oil. Afghanistan, open the vast central Europe and Middle East to control the follow of the stuff.
In contrast to South America, it is a fact that former colonialists have taken hold of Oil production in Africa. Many Africans countries producing Oil have reached no mutual understanding on how to control the production and sale of the product. Maybe because of lack of skills in this area, or the haste as which these countries go into producing oil. Nigera is well known. Equally, Angola is producing millions of barrel, which has so far not yield comparable standard to their people, where the major players are the Portuguese. My view is that unless these facts are flushed out, the ‘status quo’ will not be understood.
Condescending is the middle name used to describe how we are treated, not only from outsiders, but also shamefully from some of our own. We have been patronized since time immoral seen as you put from lesser gods. Indeed, this debate is premised on that attitude, where I hasten to add, some 'confused' Africans sitting in privileged places casting aspersions on their compatriots. Privilege places because some ‘white’ woman sponsored them for a visa only for them ‘worship’ the white man! Don't get me wrong, I respect criticism and we certainly need more of it. When we have the likes of thieving Kibaki, we need to agitate people to stand up against such criminals. But, I seek our own solutions to getting rid of these characters - not 'selling our souls to the highest bidder' for redemption.
On a serious note, if you have read Frantz Fanon, how would you even question my standpoint on colonialism, and by extension imperialism?
I don’t recognize where we sought ‘permission’ – if anything the circumstances are that we have to play by the rules of others as there is no equal playing field in major areas of finance, trade and so on. It is naïve to think that the ‘debt’ mechanism is even and fair. Did you know that many poor countries pay more money to the World Bank and the IMF each year than they receive in loans. The World Bank's own figures indicate that the IMF extracted a net US$1 billion from Africa in 1997 and 1998 more than they loaned to the continent.
On Nowrojee’s argument, please look again at that thread where, I hope, you will see my view, crystal clear.
On the picture of the African boy, the photographer earned money from it but not the boy. Predator!
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 23, 2012 14:10:04 GMT 3
Ngugi wa Thiong'o - Wizard of the Crow.
In this book, Ngugi has taken aim at the lending banks and multinationals that riddle the contemporary African landscape, wheeling and dealing amid widespread corruption.
In Wizard of the Crow, he tells the story of the fictitious Free Republic of Aburiria, a modern African kleptocracy ruled by, well, "the Ruler," a cartoonish despot who surrounds himself with a set of ministers who have plastic surgery to grotesquely enlarge their eyes, ears and tongues, helping them to better monitor political enemies and spread political propaganda.
A love story develops between Kamiti, an unemployed graduate who masquerades as a wizard, and Nyawira, an impassioned political activist. At the same time, an equally dramatic tale unfolds as the government turns to the "Global Bank" to fund the construction of the tallest tower in Africa, and as western powers try to influence Aburiria's Ruler to safeguard their interests.
Quotes from Ngugi about the Book.
"When people talk about Africa, they often only talk about it through one lens, so they blame its lack of progress on its people, or its landscape. In this book I wanted to show everything – the influence of aid, the neocolonialism of capital, and how this affects things for the people."
“the book also tells the story of the instability that is growing alongside the world's rising inequalities. There is a growing "rift between the givers and receivers of charity, between credit/donor nations and beggar/debt-burdened nations. And yet, the natural resources of the debtor nations feed the creditor nations."
“The solution is not top-down political and economic restructuring, but rather programmes for "the empowerment of the least of us". "Progress and development need to be measured from the standpoint of those at the bottom of the mountain and not those at the top. Only then will reason, law, and democratic ideals be in accord with social justice."
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 23, 2012 16:49:24 GMT 3
Many Africans countries producing Oil have reached no mutual understanding on how to control the production and sale of the product. Why don't they do that? Alright, you've flushed them out. What now? |
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 23, 2012 22:59:39 GMT 3
I think you, sadik, could have misunderstood why you are under attack on this issue of the linkage between current poverty in Afrika, and her colonial past. Understanding the causes of extreme poverty, explaining its preponderance or ubiquitous occurrence in Africa [even if taking into account relativist perspectives where there is no such thing as absolute poverty], is no doubt a noble intellectual feat. What sits unwell with me, is when COLONIALISM becomes the foundation upon which an explanatory thesis is built, all the way to heaven! That is when I become a dissenting Thomas. But close to 50 years after flag independence, I find other factors so determinant, that I am ready to statistically ignore the alleged contributory role of colonialism. When I look at the villa just commissioned yesterday for the official residence of the VP, or the Chief Justice, and compare them to the pre-historic Hottentot or Pygmy huts which the Turkana still dwell in; when I compare the multi-million tax-payer funded purchase of Shell House for the PM --(yet that position is destined to go politically extinct), to the cave-man dwellings of the administration police [footage and photos available], I really see no hand of colonialism, hidden or not, manipulating the decision making process at the highest levels of the beloved land. Methinks under colonialism, neo-colonialism, imperialism or independence, a feeble-minded elite will continue making stupid decisions --to the detriment of their countries! I could as well blame it on the stars! And elites do not come and get more feeble-minded than in Afrika! There is something we call a 'control experiment' in science. Its greatest offshoot in popular literature is called the 'placebo effect'. I apply it like this to belittle this colonial legacy argument of causality. Are there other continents/countries which too, have suffered colonialism in measurable level to Afrika/Kenya, yet escaped the scorching poverty of the mass? fellas that industrialised fast-track yet were colonised?? If one or two countries can be named which escaped this colonial legacy trap, then their exceptionalism, according to me, shows colonialism is not the determining factor of the failure of others. Nor a worthwhile one. I would rather think with a history of colonialism, folks would be in a hurry to catch up with the rest of them developed, since in most nationalist discourses, the colonial period is defined as a period of total stagnation! [then independence should mean on to your marks, get set and whoosh! a breathless chase!] -------------------------------- PS: To my amazement, Vasco Da Gama passed on route to India 1498, barely scratching the surface of Kenya, and it was 1858 when the first white-man [man in the original text] was bathing in Lake Victoria, before that known by another name. How long really then, was this [white] colonialism of Kenya? When did those Berlin defined borders really begin to mean anything? [By the time I was going to primary school early 70s, East African was still the name of all companies: Railways, Posts, Harbours, transport companies, Shilling! Holidays, one of my uncles would take me to Kampala, another to Dar-es-Salaam, another to Nairobi, without anybody asking them for an ID on the way! Enter independence! everybody in their shamba. Meanwhile what happened to other countries which too were colonised at the same time? And have they all suffered our fate? If the answer is No, then this exception would appear to annul the explanation of colonialism. [Does any countries ring a bell?] PS: Then there is this which possibly you have never been asked to comment on. That South Africa's emergence as the Regional Economic Super-power, outranking even Nigeria Rand for naira, has to do with its en-lengthened colonial regime under the captaincy of 'indigenous aliens'! Any denunciations forthcoming? JakaswangaSometimes I think we are the worse enemies to ourselves. See how I’m being attacked left, right and center, my only ‘crime’ standing for my, or rather, our people. Who needs enemy when one has this lot with him! My main interest here is to understand why we are poor, and I believe to reach an answer crucially one needs to interrogate how come we are where we are at the moment. You, and your side-kick, talk of Nigerian novelists and poets. Despite their popularity, their ‘product’ is not equal in terms in economic wealth to oil. I believe that is how many toil in the West seeking sustenance. You need to understand that having oil changes the attention one gets from Imperialist in geopolitics. Iran is a major example. One could say candidly that the aggression and war fought at the moment are because of oil. Afghanistan, open the vast central Europe and Middle East to control the follow of the stuff. In contrast to South America, it is a fact that former colonialists have taken hold of Oil production in Africa. Many Africans countries producing Oil have reached no mutual understanding on how to control the production and sale of the product. Maybe because of lack of skills in this area, or the haste as which these countries go into producing oil. Nigera is well known. Equally, Angola is producing millions of barrel, which has so far not yield comparable standard to their people, where the major players are the Portuguese. My view is that unless these facts are flushed out, the ‘status quo’ will not be understood. Condescending is the middle name used to describe how we are treated, not only from outsiders, but also shamefully from some of our own. We have been patronized since time immoral seen as you put from lesser gods. Indeed, this debate is premised on that attitude, where I hasten to add, some 'confused' Africans sitting in privileged places casting aspersions on their compatriots. Privilege places because some ‘white’ woman sponsored them for a visa only for them ‘worship’ the white man! Don't get me wrong, I respect criticism and we certainly need more of it. When we have the likes of thieving Kibaki, we need to agitate people to stand up against such criminals. But, I seek our own solutions to getting rid of these characters - not 'selling our souls to the highest bidder' for redemption. On a serious note, if you have read Frantz Fanon, how would you even question my standpoint on colonialism, and by extension imperialism? I don’t recognize where we sought ‘permission’ – if anything the circumstances are that we have to play by the rules of others as there is no equal playing field in major areas of finance, trade and so on. It is naïve to think that the ‘debt’ mechanism is even and fair. Did you know that many poor countries pay more money to the World Bank and the IMF each year than they receive in loans. The World Bank's own figures indicate that the IMF extracted a net US$1 billion from Africa in 1997 and 1998 more than they loaned to the continent. On Nowrojee’s argument, please look again at that thread where, I hope, you will see my view, crystal clear. On the picture of the African boy, the photographer earned money from it but not the boy. Predator! I do not think this last statement is well thought out! I am told when one hires a lawyer, win or loose, the lawyer gets paid! Parasitic? |
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 23, 2012 23:15:37 GMT 3
By the way, Jakaswanga, you'd like the lawyers representing (in his latest legal "scandal") Strauss-Kahn, former head of the IMF, Pillar of The Community, and potential president of France. He does not deny particpating in numerous orgies involving prostitutes, but he denies encouraging prostitution. His lawyers have mounted a vigorous and logical defence: Yes, our client was present at the parties. And, yes, he partook of the full fare. But he was surrounded by nude women from all walks of life. He does not have, and it is unreasonable to expect that he should have, the ability to distinguish between a naked hooker and any other kind of naked woman. Eh, Otishotish, assuming these fellas go for high-level hookers: naked, yes they could not be distinguished from any other decent woman. But is it not also the case that, un-naked or fully clothed, it is equally difficult if not impossible to differentiate hooker from those of tighter morals --or tighter other things for that matter? Are these smart lawyers correct in assuming one can determine, in a crowd of women dressed, in France, which ones are the hookers? =========== Meanwhile former Sarkozy Justice minister Rachida Dati is filing in court for paternity tests on at least 8 men. All of them were her lovers concurrently when she was minister of Justice. 'You must be very hot, madame'!. She was asked on national TV. 'Hormonal complications', she winked! 'Something vibrators couldn't just handle!' Complicated but not scandalous in the fifth republic! --But some of the men are refusing to offer DNA voluntarily, and so court summons! But given Rachida is of Algerian roots, not all constituent parts of the fifth republic exchange hanky-panky winks at this story! |
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 23, 2012 23:25:37 GMT 3
Eh, Otishotish, assuming these fellas go for high-level hookers: naked, yes they could not be distinguished from any other decent woman. But is it not also the case that, un-naked or fully clothed, it is equally difficult if not impossible to differentiate hooker from those of tighter morals --or tighter other things for that matter? Are these smart lawyers correct in assuming one can determine, in a crowd of women dressed, in France, which ones are the hookers?! I think that their argument is that when people are working towards a "state of undress" but are still fully clothed, it would be normal to engage in chit-chat about the job, the family, the mortgage rates, etc. But there are certain situations when there are more "urgent" matters and it is even considered rude to spend time on chit-chat. |
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 24, 2012 0:49:48 GMT 3
I think you, sadik, could have misunderstood why you are under attack on this issue of the linkage between current poverty in Afrika, and her colonial past. Understanding the causes of extreme poverty, explaining its preponderance or ubiquitous occurrence in Africa [even if taking into account relativist perspectives where there is no such thing as absolute poverty], is no doubt a noble intellectual feat. What sits unwell with me, is when COLONIALISM becomes the foundation upon which an explanatory thesis is built, all the way to heaven! That is when I become a dissenting Thomas. But close to 50 years after flag independence, I find other factors so determinant, that I am ready to statistically ignore the alleged contributory role of colonialism. When I look at the villa just commissioned yesterday for the official residence of the VP, or the Chief Justice, and compare them to the pre-historic Hottentot or Pygmy huts which the Turkana still dwell in; when I compare the multi-million tax-payer funded purchase of Shell House for the PM --(yet that position is destined to go politically extinct), to the cave-man dwellings of the administration police [footage and photos available], I really see no hand of colonialism, hidden or not, manipulating the decision making process at the highest levels of the beloved land. Methinks under colonialism, neo-colonialism, imperialism or independence, a feeble-minded elite will continue making stupid decisions --to the detriment of their countries! I could as well blame it on the stars! And elites do not come and get more feeble-minded than in Afrika! There is something we call a 'control experiment' in science. Its greatest offshoot in popular literature is called the 'placebo effect'. I apply it like this to belittle this colonial legacy argument of causality. Are there other continents/countries which too, have suffered colonialism in measurable level to Afrika/Kenya, yet escaped the scorching poverty of the mass? fellas that industrialised fast-track yet were colonised?? If one or two countries can be named which escaped this colonial legacy trap, then their exceptionalism, according to me, shows colonialism is not the determining factor of the failure of others. Nor a worthwhile one. I would rather think with a history of colonialism, folks would be in a hurry to catch up with the rest of them developed, since in most nationalist discourses, the colonial period is defined as a period of total stagnation! [then independence should mean on to your marks, get set and whoosh! a breathless chase!] -------------------------------- PS: To my amazement, Vasco Da Gama passed on route to India 1498, barely scratching the surface of Kenya, and it was 1858 when the first white-man [man in the original text] was bathing in Lake Victoria, before that known by another name. How long really then, was this [white] colonialism of Kenya? When did those Berlin defined borders really begin to mean anything? [By the time I was going to primary school early 70s, East African was still the name of all companies: Railways, Posts, Harbours, transport companies, Shilling! Holidays, one of my uncles would take me to Kampala, another to Dar-es-Salaam, another to Nairobi, without anybody asking them for an ID on the way! Enter independence! everybody in their shamba. Meanwhile what happened to other countries which too were colonised at the same time? And have they all suffered our fate? If the answer is No, then this exception would appear to annul the explanation of colonialism. [Does any countries ring a bell?] PS: Then there is this which possibly you have never been asked to comment on. That South Africa's emergence as the Regional Economic Super-power, outranking even Nigeria Rand for naira, has to do with its en-lengthened colonial regime under the captaincy of 'indigenous aliens'! Any denunciations forthcoming? JakaswangaSometimes I think we are the worse enemies to ourselves. See how I’m being attacked left, right and center, my only ‘crime’ standing for my, or rather, our people. Who needs enemy when one has this lot with him! My main interest here is to understand why we are poor, and I believe to reach an answer crucially one needs to interrogate how come we are where we are at the moment. You, and your side-kick, talk of Nigerian novelists and poets. Despite their popularity, their ‘product’ is not equal in terms in economic wealth to oil. I believe that is how many toil in the West seeking sustenance. You need to understand that having oil changes the attention one gets from Imperialist in geopolitics. Iran is a major example. One could say candidly that the aggression and war fought at the moment are because of oil. Afghanistan, open the vast central Europe and Middle East to control the follow of the stuff. In contrast to South America, it is a fact that former colonialists have taken hold of Oil production in Africa. Many Africans countries producing Oil have reached no mutual understanding on how to control the production and sale of the product. Maybe because of lack of skills in this area, or the haste as which these countries go into producing oil. Nigera is well known. Equally, Angola is producing millions of barrel, which has so far not yield comparable standard to their people, where the major players are the Portuguese. My view is that unless these facts are flushed out, the ‘status quo’ will not be understood. Condescending is the middle name used to describe how we are treated, not only from outsiders, but also shamefully from some of our own. We have been patronized since time immoral seen as you put from lesser gods. Indeed, this debate is premised on that attitude, where I hasten to add, some 'confused' Africans sitting in privileged places casting aspersions on their compatriots. Privilege places because some ‘white’ woman sponsored them for a visa only for them ‘worship’ the white man! Don't get me wrong, I respect criticism and we certainly need more of it. When we have the likes of thieving Kibaki, we need to agitate people to stand up against such criminals. But, I seek our own solutions to getting rid of these characters - not 'selling our souls to the highest bidder' for redemption. On a serious note, if you have read Frantz Fanon, how would you even question my standpoint on colonialism, and by extension imperialism? I don’t recognize where we sought ‘permission’ – if anything the circumstances are that we have to play by the rules of others as there is no equal playing field in major areas of finance, trade and so on. It is naïve to think that the ‘debt’ mechanism is even and fair. Did you know that many poor countries pay more money to the World Bank and the IMF each year than they receive in loans. The World Bank's own figures indicate that the IMF extracted a net US$1 billion from Africa in 1997 and 1998 more than they loaned to the continent. On Nowrojee’s argument, please look again at that thread where, I hope, you will see my view, crystal clear. On the picture of the African boy, the photographer earned money from it but not the boy. Predator! I do not think this last statement is well thought out! I am told when one hires a lawyer, win or loose, the lawyer gets paid! Parasitic? I thought about my last line carefully. In response, a lawyer provides a service – win or lose, the services are rendered. The picture on the other hand used a subject – a child – to provide a service from which the photographer earned yet the subject didn't. Contrast with an Actor on whose picture a film is based who is paid because he is the subject delivering the service. Should the boy not also earn for being the subject of the picture? On the leadership debate, I think you are seeking selfless leaders who are near impossible to get. As such it will be very difficult to get noble and honorable people to be leaders. There is very little chance of getting the likes of Thomas Sankara who were happy and ready to cycle to work. The simple truth is we are cursed with people who fill their belly first - which I consider is a small loss we must write off in calculation as per our cost/benefit analysis in seeking good leadership. So the office spaces and houses you talk about are small losses on fulfilment that we gain more in return. I’m to offer the offices and houses as long as we get commendable services which leads to sustained economic progression, and so forth. I find the notion you give that colonialism is never an issue in Africa’s poverty is wrong. I note New Partnership For Africa’s Development, or Nepad also preached the same line. Nepad places nearly all the blame for Africa’s problems on Africa itself. By so doing, in the hope that it might win them a few crumbs of aid and extra debt relief, African leaders who formed it appear to have told the rich world everything it wants to hear. Nepad accepts that colonialism, the Cold War, and “the workings of the international economic system” have contributed to Africa’s problems, but the primary responsibility rests with “corruption and economic mismanagement” at home. Few would deny that these have played a significant role, but nowhere is there any mention of the far more consequential corruption and mismanagement by the West. Africa’s underlying problem is debt. Nepad implicitly accepts the rich world’s explanation for this debt: that previous African leaders have frittered away their economic independence through poor planning and personal graft. But, no explanation is given when the system ensures that the only way debts can be discharged is through the issue of more debt. This problem, as Africans know, is compounded by the policing system developed by the rich world in 1944. Rather than the self-correcting mechanism proposed by John Maynard Keynes, which forced creditors as well as debtors to discharge the debt, the World Bank and International Monetary Fund were introduced as a means of persuading only the debtor nations to act, in the certain knowledge that this couldn’t possibly work. This system granted the rich world complete economic control over the poor world. The power nations swing within the IMF is a function of their gross domestic product: the richer they are, the more votes they can cast. The World Bank is run entirely by “donor” states. These two bodies, in other words, respond only to the nations in which they do not operate. The consequences for national democracy are devastating. African voters can demand a change of government, but they cannot demand a change of policy. All the important decisions affecting the continent are made in Washington, and they always boil down to the neoliberal demolition of the state’s capacity to care for its people. So when the African leaders announce that “Africa undertakes to respect the global standards of democracy”, they are accepting a burden they cannot lift. Democracy in Africa is meaningless until its leaders are prepared to challenge the external control of their economies. But far from denouncing the authors of their misfortunes, they appear only to embrace them. “Structural adjustment”, the IMF policy which has forced countries to repay their debts instead of investing in healthcare and education, is now almost universally acknowledged as the nemesis of development in Africa. Nepad’s fiercest criticism is that it “provided only a partial solution” to poverty. Africa’s leaders have pledged to support not only its successor policies (such as the IMF’s demand that Malawi privatise its food reserves, with the result that millions of its inhabitants are now at risk of starvation), but also the Africa Growth and Opportunity Act passed by the US Congress. This act seeks to complete the job which structural adjustment began: forcing African countries to dismantle state support and privatise their economies in return for minimal concessions on trade and aid. Self-determination is an admirable goal, but without control over economic policy it’s bombast. The ‘colonialist cannot be blamed’ self-flagellation is not a realistic means of engaging with the imperial powers. That colonialism did not affect Africa today could be viewed as a ‘white’ lie: the lies of the whites, repeated, with the best intentions, by Africans. But development cannot be built upon a lie, for development is a matter of reality. Time we faced reality, brother, and ask vocally for restitution. The Jews were massacred and have sought reparation which will continue to the future to redress the negative balances against them. They have negotiated the best defence from NATO, and serious subsidies from Germany/Switzerland/Belgium. I understand even the Vatican pays stipend to Israel for past crimes against them. And here we are letting the white man scot free - not wanting to even blame him for our nightmare legacy of poor leadership we inherited. NB. My source here is George Monbiot. |
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