|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Mar 9, 2013 2:51:43 GMT 3
Compatriots:
At the rate at which things are going, I expect to be a former Kenyan citizen in the very near future. I shall return to Jukwaa at some point, but I thought I might make a few remarks before I go.
(1) The fact that we could soon have a President and Vice-President on trial for crimes against humanity is absolutely shocking. People in my other country have been asking me about it over the last 2 days, and I am at a loss at what to tell them.
(2) Just about everything about the PEV has been forgotten, because Kenya is a hopelessly tribalistic country and "follow the tribal leader" comes before anything else. Until the tribal lemmings have suffered enough (perhaps another 50 years) or evolved enough (perhaps another 5000 years), the possibility for change is near-zero. After such period and sufficient pain, perhaps Kenyans will vote on "issues" and things like "integrity".
(3) The idea (past) of so many votes in so many provinces and (now) so many votes in so many counties was intended to reduce the likelihood of a "tyranny of the majority". Kenyans will need to rethink that one very carefully.
(4) In relation to the PEV, what we are learning, especially after 5 years of the government of Kenya doing absolutely nothing, is that (a) if you are in power or can get the support of people in power, then you can get away with anything, and (b) if you can get dim-witted tribal sheep to come along, then you can ensure (a).
Considering how often we have droughts and famines and go begging all over the world for emergency food, there is clear evidence that most Kenyans (and especially their so-called leaders) are incapable of thinking beyond the short term. That is why it is the case that even with 5 years to plan, the matter of voting and counting votes has again been such a circus.
One hopes that Kenyans will now look beyond the next 5 years.
(5) I count myself lucky to be living in country where I can legally fight discrimination, of whatever form, and where I and my children have better opportunities for self-realization that we could have in Kenya. In America, Obama, from the small "tribe" of African-Americans managed to succeed. Over here, my small area is likely (next year) to elect a black person from Guyana, in an area where the "black tribe" is less that 1%. If he wins, and he most likely will, it will be on the basis of his past performance, his clean record, etc.
That's the sort of "fighting chance" I want my children to have as they grow up. I do not want them in a country where as long as they have enough tribes-people backing them, they can get away with anything, and if they are from a "wrong" tribe they are buggered.
I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.
Given my impending renunciation on Kenyan citizenship, I do not expect to be much of a presence on Jukwaa. I will, however, return to comment on ICC matters. That''s because they have do do with crimes against humanity and not crimes against this or that tribe or this or that nationality. Against humanity.
Additionally, I and other Kenyans here will be lobbying our government to take appropriate action and send the right signals about where we stand. Likewise, we will be lobbying the private sector, charitable organizations involved in Kenya, and so forth. Again, no need to go on and on; I'm sure you get the point. Small potatoes, no doubt, and I'm sure that Kenya and Kenyans will survive---perhaps by "turning East", I am told---but that's not the point. The point is that here we have certain principles and standards, especially when it comes to human rights. Once we get "traction" on that, I might pop in to "update" you".
If you live in a country that happens (or claims) to care about humanity as opposed to nationality and tribe, then I urge you do what you can for the humans in Kenya, however misguided some of them might be. Even if the "humanity" doesn't appeal to you, think of the taxpayer-funds.
If Kenya is your chosen (or enforced) place and you believe in right, then don't be cowed by power. Keep in mind Africa's history. Remember a guy like Haile Selassie? King of Kings, Conquering Lion of The Tribe of Judah, I & I, etc., etc, etc., who, will millions of Ethiopians were starving to death was feeding prime beef to his pet lions? His first burial place was under Mengitsu's toilet. Talk about sh*itting on somebody's head!
Finally: There are some Jukwaaists that I frequently communicate with beyond the "public debates". The Jukwaa system doesn't automatically forward email onto private email addresses. Until my return, when the ICC-action (for crimes against humanity) resumes) you can reach me via bongozed@gmail.com
In the meantime, please no mass killing, mass rapes, mas displacement, ... crimes against humanity. If you cannot think of the humanity, at the very least try to think beyond 5 years of your own life.
|
|
|
|
Post by amadain on Mar 9, 2013 3:03:05 GMT 3
I was just about to scream: "But how will I get my ICC updates after you leave?!!!"  Good to know you'll stick around to discuss the trials. By the way, do you write anywhere outside of Jukwaa? A blog perhaps? |
|
|
|
Post by mugabe on Mar 9, 2013 5:24:02 GMT 3
Otis
I share your views fully bro. I will definitely miss you regular contributions. Quality posters are seemingly leaving in droves. Agreed on the justice part. The victims do not matter kanzi iendelee. I am sick and tired of tribalism.
|
|
|
|
Post by patriotism101 on Mar 9, 2013 6:55:24 GMT 3
Compatriots: If Kenya is your chosen (or enforced) place and you believe in right, then don't be cowed by power. Keep in mind Africa's history. Remember a guy like Haile Selassie? King of Kings, Conquering Otish, Your frustrations are understandable but your decision, if based on those frustrations is unreasonable. Plenty has been said about the implications of the UHURUTO presidency-but no one has engaged the common citizenship to indoctrinate them with the impact such implications will have in their daily lives. The ruling class by commission and omission(read CORD) failed to educate voters the extent of damage the country’s image will suffer when the number one and number two are mshukiwa wa kwanza na wapili at the Hague. To the ordinary Kenyan, ni kama movie, to borrow from ruto’s vocabulary and the issue did not add ugali to his table. For example, no one had an ad to warn the electorate of such a possibility and everyone hid behind “we want peaceful elections” chorus. No “super pac” was willing to come out and address the issue head on. Instead it was left for the diplomats to warn kenyans of the consequences such a choice would have- even then it was twisted and painted as meddling in the country's internal affairs. So Kenyans should live with the consequences of their choice. Vioja mahakamani, that old fabled zilizopendwa of KBC program of yester years cuts through the chase and opeds by among others the respected Yash Pal Ghai and in my opinion should give an ordinary Kenyan a simple undertstanding of what just happened in our beloved ex otish republic. Typical vioja mahakamani will go something like this- Judge- Mshukiwa wa kwanza ambia koti hi majina yako kamili (First Accused, please tell this court your full names) Mshukiwa wa kwanza- Kwa majina mimi naitwa Uhuru Mwigai Kenyatta, also the president of the republic of Kenya (Otish- this is what I believe is making you give up your Kenyan citizenship; D-it is an indignity to the Kenyan people) Judge- Mshukiwa wa pili ambia koti hi majina yako kamili (Second accused, please tell this court your full names) Ruto- Mimi naitwa Samoei Arap Ruto, also the deputy president of……………………………………………….. This may sound funny, indeed it is good material for late night comedy, and unfortunately it is a nightmare to the millions of Kenyans who have some dignity left in them. As soon as he is sworn in, UK will be the commander in chief of all the KDF, president of Republic of Kenya. It is impossible for me to imagine the idea that UK and his deputy will be seated behind a desk answering and swearing to say nothing but the truth to a judge in a court either in Arusha or the Hague if at all they cooperate with the ICC. Willingness to cooperate comes early for RUTO. I pity the guy, he got the court date the same day he was supposed to be celebrating victory – it is like having menses on your wedding night! He will be the litmus test of whether they will honor their court appearances. My instinct tells me they will not, but I could be wrong even though I hope my instincts are right. Either way, Kenya loses. Let me explain. It is more humiliating to me and the Kenyan people to have the vioja mahakamani movie I talked about above. It will make Kenya a laughing stock of the world, it is injurious to the Kenyan brand and it will continue to depict Kenya as a failed state whose president and deputy president are being tried in a European court. Before stopping the cooperation, everything including the kitchen sink will be thrown at the ICC. First , there will be motions and counter motions sponsored by the washukiwa (the defendants) and the GOK through cousin Attorney General -paid for by the treasury. Sang is in big trouble –he will be alone-hopefully CORD will show some appreciation for his courage for standing up and saying what he believes. In the meantime, there will be shuttle diplomacy 2.0 starting regionally, Uganda, Burundi, Rwanda Tanzania then to the OAU going further east to china. This will be at tax payers expense. We know this failed in the past, it will fail again, but this will not stop the washukiwa from trying it- at the expense of the tax payers. One of the shuttle diplomacy selling points was that the cases should be brought back to Kenya since there is currently an independent judiciary. This point is still valid but may be mute since the washukiwa will be number one and number two heads of the executive arms and will have some influence over the prosecutor (Please don’t argue here that Tobiko is independent of the president) It will therefore be interesting how this point is fumbled and argued to international friends (China, IRAN, North Korea etc) If and when UHURUTO fails to show up in court, the president’s and his deputy’s foreign trip budgets might come down. The only foreign trips they may make will be to Sudan and China with stopovers in Iran-even then, they will be risking a take down. This may seriously hit UK hardest since frozen assets visa freeze to you and family never go well especially when you have assets in the west, banking and manufacturing interests that rely on neo colonial powers to market your products. Life can be very lonely up there if the only people you can hang out with are Omar el bashir and some guys you cannot even pronounce their names. But are these problems enough to make you throw away your birth right Otish? Not at all. History repeats itself. Ruto and Uhuru will unravel once the ICC problem is sorted out. Kenya is bigger than the two or maybe I am wrong. But do we want to go the Zimbambwe way? I doubt it. This is a marriage of convenience and you should keep your Kenyan passport brother. Fare thee well.......Otish  Senti 5
|
|
|
|
Post by b6k on Mar 9, 2013 8:04:20 GMT 3
Otishotish, Patriotism101 is right on the money. It is your right to decide what to do RE your choice of nationality. A decision made now reminds me of my friends who burned their electors cards back when Kibaki was sworn in in Dec '07. Emotional decisions, at best, in a time that calls for sober minds. As I have told you at least a couple times on Jukwaa. TIA. There are many quirks in the system (which you allude to as lack of evolution in your missive) but many of us who have had the opportunity to live & work in first world countries, & still decided to come back, fully appreciate that even with all its shortcomings KE does have a lot going for it. We have to be allowed to evolve at our own pace, for better or for worse (listen to Jendayi Frazer's pragmatism on OO's thread). Whether Kamwana will serve his full 5 year term without the ICC interrupting his reign remains to be seen. KE will still be there at the end of the day. All the best in your adoptive country.... 
|
|
|
|
Post by einstein on Mar 9, 2013 8:43:59 GMT 3
Compatriots: If Kenya is your chosen (or enforced) place and you believe in right, then don't be cowed by power. Keep in mind Africa's history. Remember a guy like Haile Selassie? King of Kings, Conquering Otish, Your frustrations are understandable but your decision, if based on those frustrations is unreasonable. Plenty has been said about the implications of the UHURUTO presidency-but no one has engaged the common citizenship to indoctrinate them with the impact such implications will have in their daily lives. The ruling class by commission and omission(read CORD) failed to educate voters the extent of damage the country’s image will suffer when the number one and number two are mshukiwa wa kwanza na wapili at the Hague. To the ordinary Kenyan, ni kama movie, to borrow from ruto’s vocabulary and the issue did not add ugali to his table. For example, no one had an ad to warn the electorate of such a possibility and everyone hid behind “we want peaceful elections” chorus. No “super pac” was willing to come out and address the issue head on. Instead it was left for the diplomats to warn kenyans of the consequences such a choice would have- even then it was twisted and painted as meddling in the country's internal affairs. So Kenyans should live with the consequences of their choice. Vioja mahakamani, that old fabled zilizopendwa of KBC program of yester years cuts through the chase and opeds by among others the respected Yash Pal Ghai and in my opinion should give an ordinary Kenyan a simple undertstanding of what just happened in our beloved ex otish republic. Typical vioja mahakamani will go something like this- Judge- Mshukiwa wa kwanza ambia koti hi majina yako kamili (First Accused, please tell this court your full names) Mshukiwa wa kwanza- Kwa majina mimi naitwa Uhuru Mwigai Kenyatta, also the president of the republic of Kenya (Otish- this is what I believe is making you give up your Kenyan citizenship; D-it is an indignity to the Kenyan people) Judge- Mshukiwa wa pili ambia koti hi majina yako kamili (Second accused, please tell this court your full names) Ruto- Mimi naitwa Samoei Arap Ruto, also the deputy president of……………………………………………….. This may sound funny, indeed it is good material for late night comedy, and unfortunately it is a nightmare to the millions of Kenyans who have some dignity left in them. As soon as he is sworn in, UK will be the commander in chief of all the KDF, president of Republic of Kenya. It is impossible for me to imagine the idea that UK and his deputy will be seated behind a desk answering and swearing to say nothing but the truth to a judge in a court either in Arusha or the Hague if at all they cooperate with the ICC. Willingness to cooperate comes early for RUTO. I pity the guy, he got the court date the same day he was supposed to be celebrating victory – it is like having menses on your wedding night! He will be the litmus test of whether they will honor their court appearances. My instinct tells me they will not, but I could be wrong even though I hope my instincts are right. Either way, Kenya loses. Let me explain. It is more humiliating to me and the Kenyan people to have the vioja mahakamani movie I talked about above. It will make Kenya a laughing stock of the world, it is injurious to the Kenyan brand and it will continue to depict Kenya as a failed state whose president and deputy president are being tried in a European court. Before stopping the cooperation, everything including the kitchen sink will be thrown at the ICC. First , there will be motions and counter motions sponsored by the washukiwa (the defendants) and the GOK through cousin Attorney General -paid for by the treasury. Sang is in big trouble –he will be alone-hopefully CORD will show some appreciation for his courage for standing up and saying what he believes. In the meantime, there will be shuttle diplomacy 2.0 starting regionally, Uganda, Burundi, Rwanda Tanzania then to the OAU going further east to china. This will be at tax payers expense. We know this failed in the past, it will fail again, but this will not stop the washukiwa from trying it- at the expense of the tax payers. One of the shuttle diplomacy selling points was that the cases should be brought back to Kenya since there is currently an independent judiciary. This point is still valid but may be mute since the washukiwa will be number one and number two heads of the executive arms and will have some influence over the prosecutor (Please don’t argue here that Tobiko is independent of the president) It will therefore be interesting how this point is fumbled and argued to international friends (China, IRAN, North Korea etc) If and when UHURUTO fails to show up in court, the president’s and his deputy’s foreign trip budgets might come down. The only foreign trips they may make will be to Sudan and China with stopovers in Iran-even then, they will be risking a take down. This may seriously hit UK hardest since frozen assets visa freeze to you and family never go well especially when you have assets in the west, banking and manufacturing interests that rely on neo colonial powers to market your products. Life can be very lonely up there if the only people you can hang out with are Omar el bashir and some guys you cannot even pronounce their names. But are these problems enough to make you throw away your birth right Otish? Not at all. History repeats itself. Ruto and Uhuru will unravel once the ICC problem is sorted out. Kenya is bigger than the two or maybe I am wrong. But do we want to go the Zimbambwe way? I doubt it. This is a marriage of convenience and you should keep your Kenyan passport brother. Fare thee well.......Otish Senti 5 Really? I remember Mudavadi, Karua, Raila and Kalonzo screaming their lungs out about the prospects of electing an ICC inductee as president during their entire campaign periods. Who paid attention to the lone voices shouting from the wilderness? Do you still remember the presidential debate when the 'public enemy number one' going by the name Raila talked about "Governance via Skype from The Hague"? I just pity my fellow Kenyans, but because I love them so much I will always be there for them and continue the fight on their behalf. After this election in 2013, starts THE STRUGGLE FOR THE THIRD LIBERATION, after T HE SECOND LIBERATION ABORTED!! Welcome on board in this struggle if you are with me! |
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Mar 9, 2013 9:05:11 GMT 3
When the drought and famine get here, every time, we wail for the white man's "international community" to come help.
When we slaughter and rape each other, we wail for the white man's "international community" to do something.
WAKE UP, BLACK PERSON! HOW LONG DO YOU EXPECT MZUNGU TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR FAILURE TO BE RESPONSIBLE? FOR ONCE, USE YOUR BLOODY HEAD!
Later. Yes, I am pissed off. But not to worry; I will calm down and get to proper action.
|
|
|
|
Post by mank on Mar 9, 2013 9:25:19 GMT 3
Oh my!
"The other OO", I can assure you if drought is coming it would come regardless of who Kenyans elected. And Kenyans are not killing each other right now, neither are they counting on the mzungu ... to the contrary they're telling mzungu to go do himself. I think we'll need to cool down and make sure our 4th president does not go too fast in that direction. We need to pace him.
Kenyans are peaceful because they managed to contain the politician. Five years ago they followed the politician and brought hell home. This time the Kenyan is a hell of a lot wiser. It will be alright ... Wanjiku can't be wrong, and if Wanjiku is wrong, Wanjiku will face it ... no need to dramatize whatever awaits Wanjiku.
By the way, is Kenya linked with The Hague by Skype, or might this an IT opportunity?
|
|
|
|
Post by jakaswanga on Mar 9, 2013 9:30:32 GMT 3
Let me tell you a story, Otishotish. The story of an Algerian fellow we once worked with for the UN, sinned and drunk with, our heads spinning over Afrika and the choices of her people when free. The Front for Islamic Salvation [FIS] had won the first round, and was now poised to sweep the second, and electorally achieve power through the ballot, in the country of Algeria whole military, like the one in Turkey, considered herself a modern bastion of secularism, progressive politics, and custodian of the national future. Monopolist of visionary interpretation. Wrongfully or rightly is not the argument yet. But the powerful military had never dared to put this to the peoples verdict, until the pressure from below had forced them. The people thought otherwise ;D. The primitive FIS would win, win big ;D. Secular Algeria was petrified. To them FIS was a fundamentalist horror which would usurp power forever like their counterparts in Iran, and plunge the country into a period of darkness. Secularists then did a deal with the devil. Better the military intervene to prevent the nation inhabiting the edges of civilisation under a popularly elected FIS. Secular intellectuals, local or diaspora, many of them persecuted and victims of the military dictatorship which held the nation in an iron grip, as much as called for and endorsed a coup in their public discourse. Better this secular military devil they knew, than the archaic Islamic front. The legitimacy of public endorsement by popular vote could go to hell. No Islamists in power! Families were split to the hair. Young unemployed and other destitute desperados buried alive in economic stagnation flocked to the FIS, Modern urban educated and employed converged to the status quo ran by the military. The nation was a volcano. Soon, with intimations that powerful backers like France and the USA were privately even more worried than themselves, the Algerian Army stepped in to save civilisation. They nullified the second round, assumed all power of guidance, banned the FIS, and arrested most of its leadership in a ruthless pre-emptive sweep. Some very militant one who had not trusted the army escaped the net, and would later form the ferocious GIA. Islamic Armed Group. The Algerian military were surprised at the lack of condemnation, even from their most ardent secular opponents, some of them ever in jail. But in thwarting the public will at such a pivotal moment, the army had plunged the country into outright civil war, and indeed the greatest social crisis since the anti French liberation war led by... My Algerian colleague, a secularists, explained to me the demons in his heart. Many they were and they needed exorcism. As the GIA [armed Islamic Group] and other militants took on the mighty Algerian army, the country became effectively partitioned, large swathes cut off from the others. After one year in government controlled territory, he received information of a massacre in his home village, and most of his extended family and clan were no more. Who exactly perpetrated the crime remained a toss between the GIA and the regular army, but the understanding was that it had been a pro government militia in action. In his heart he grieved inconsolable for his kin. His younger brother exiled to Paris and a FIS die-hard, called, not to console him to apportion blame on his ilk. Secularists who had endorsed the thwarting of the popular will, goaded the army into treason, and unleashed the monster war on a people whose only crime had been to follow their hearts, do their civic duty, and decided to give FIS a chance at the ballot. Enjoy your victory now! His brother sarcasted him over the corpses of whole their family. Would it have been a lesser nightmare to have let the peoples will prevail, however insane, and secularists assert allegiance to the FIS as a legitimate entity, democratically endorsed by the people majority? --My Algerian friend explained one demon torturing his soul. [the one we call ang'e ok tel in dholuo] What right had they had, or was it the mere arrogance of the elite, supremely educated and hedonistic, to agitate for nullification of the peoples will, anoint the army into a custodian of Renaissance, and effectively precipitate a dread civil war? --[sowing the wind and now reaping the whirl-storm as the Greeks say.] 'I considered the choice of my people foolish, agitated for its rejection by any means necessary, got what I wanted, but in the aftermath lost all my loved ones in a massacre by my own side. That price is no longer worth it to me. --I regret it. That is why I occasionally overdrink my friend,' he told me pensively in lonely introspection. I need to anesthetize some demons that raise hell in my mind when sober. .
So Otishotish, as I set my mind to irreconcilability with the ICC-duo of indictees as their excellencies in my country, a country I have a demonic passion for, as I consider the majority choice of my country's electorate foolish, will I repeat the earlier option of my Franco-Algerian friend ---which, in his case, subsequently has led to a massive regret--- and support whatever it is that deposes Uhuruto when the sanctions hit the bone?
Afrika O Afrika! The decisions you force upon minds! Monster that you are!
Farewell, bongozed! Remember this is a crisis, and a crisis needs the best thinking. You could always contribute that to Jukwaa. Some of us will read it, and you never know where we might apply the good ideas in your head.
So good patriotic option could be to stay on board, and help think it out for us, instead of 'kuno'! [ha ha] --going to drink in solitary confinement! Jukwaa is a good bar to share the tales of scars Afrika wreaks within the thinking of men who love her! ---W-H-ORE that she be! Still the best l.ay of our lives! AAAAAAAFFFFFFRRRRRRRIKAAAA!
When the drought and famine get here, every time, we wail for the white man's "international community" to come help. When we slaughter and rape each other, we wail for the white man's "international community" to do something. WAKE UP, BLACK PERSON! HOW LONG DO YOU EXPECT MZUNGU TO TAKE CARE OF YOUR FAILURE TO BE RESPONSIBLE? FOR ONCE, USE YOUR BLOODY HEAD! Later. Yes, I am pissed off. But not to worry; I will calm down and get to proper action. |
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Mar 9, 2013 9:44:41 GMT 3
I get real angry when some guy sitting in some lofty apartment out there gets this view that stupidity is a cooperative effort. It gets even worse when just because one can take economic refuge in some other country they can think that they have this monopoly of ideas that because the Kenyans do not vote how they think it becomes important to determine how they want to associate with Kenya.
I am not sure that Otishotish was affected by PEV as to want to be offended that 6 million Kenyans have taken the decision to vote for Uhuru and Ruto. Well the two lead communities most affected by the violence. My own mother was a victim, and for many years would never hear of Ruto. But for the sake of peace she voted for the two and when I called her on Tuesday morning she was by much at peace. Today when the winner is announced, she is on the queue for her doctor's appointment in Nakuru this morning which is a peaceful city today compared to the same time in 2008. One needs to be a tottering idiot not to see the significance of this.
So please go ahead and renounce your Kenyan citizenship and cut up any CORDs with the country of our birth. It is your right! But kindly do not lord it over us why you are doing it for you owe us no explanation. It would have been a lot more helpful if you had chosen a better for doing it.....but you surely cannot convince us the solution laid with Raila (and forget about the small issue of Maina Njenga) as you have rooted for him. Majority of the 12 million Kenyans did not think so, the least you can do is give them some respect. Sadly on this point you have not and on that we part company.
So I hope you will settle well in your other country and that you children will have a better life not as Kenyans in that country.God speed and Good Luck. Your interventions on the ICC will be missed.
|
|
|
|
Post by einstein on Mar 9, 2013 9:47:10 GMT 3
Oh my! "The other OO", I can assure you if drought is coming it would come regardless of who Kenyans elected. And Kenyans are not killing each other right now, neither are they counting on the mzungu ... to the contrary they're telling mzungu to go do himself. I think we'll need to cool down and make sure our 4th president does not go too fast in that direction. We need to pace him. Kenyans are peaceful because they managed to contain the politician. Five years ago they followed the politician and brought hell home. This time the Kenyan is a hell of a lot wiser. It will be alright ... Wanjiku can't be wrong, and if Wanjiku is wrong, Wanjiku will face it ... no need to dramatize whatever awaits Wanjiku.By the way, is Kenya linked with The Hague by Skype, or might this an IT opportunity? Amen brother and I hope we will not need to start discussing Wanjiku's decision vis-a-vis this election anytime soon on this very board. Wanjiku made the best and hopefully the wisest choice. |
|
|
|
Post by podp on Mar 9, 2013 10:29:50 GMT 3
Compatriots: At the rate at which things are going, I expect to be a former Kenyan citizen in the very near future. I shall return to Jukwaa at some point, but I thought I might make a few remarks before I go. (1) The fact that we could soon have a President and Vice-President on trial for crimes against humanity is absolutely shocking. People in my other country have been asking me about it over the last 2 days, and I am at a loss at what to tell them. (2) Just about everything about the PEV has been forgotten, because Kenya is a hopelessly tribalistic country and "follow the tribal leader" comes before anything else. Until the tribal lemmings have suffered enough (perhaps another 50 years) or evolved enough (perhaps another 5000 years), the possibility for change is near-zero. After such period and sufficient pain, perhaps Kenyans will vote on "issues" and things like "integrity". (3) The idea (past) of so many votes in so many provinces and (now) so many votes in so many counties was intended to reduce the likelihood of a "tyranny of the majority". Kenyans will need to rethink that one very carefully.(4) In relation to the PEV, what we are learning, especially after 5 years of the government of Kenya doing absolutely nothing, is that (a) if you are in power or can get the support of people in power, then you can get away with anything, and (b) if you can get dim-witted tribal sheep to come along, then you can ensure (a). Considering how often we have droughts and famines and go begging all over the world for emergency food, there is clear evidence that most Kenyans (and especially their so-called leaders) are incapable of thinking beyond the short term. That is why it is the case that even with 5 years to plan, the matter of voting and counting votes has again been such a circus. One hopes that Kenyans will now look beyond the next 5 years. (5) I count myself lucky to be living in country where I can legally fight discrimination, of whatever form, and where I and my children have better opportunities for self-realization that we could have in Kenya. In America, Obama, from the small "tribe" of African-Americans managed to succeed. Over here, my small area is likely (next year) to elect a black person from Guyana, in an area where the "black tribe" is less that 1%. If he wins, and he most likely will, it will be on the basis of his past performance, his clean record, etc. That's the sort of "fighting chance" I want my children to have as they grow up. I do not want them in a country where as long as they have enough tribes-people backing them, they can get away with anything, and if they are from a "wrong" tribe they are buggered. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. Given my impending renunciation on Kenyan citizenship, I do not expect to be much of a presence on Jukwaa. I will, however, return to comment on ICC matters. That''s because they have do do with crimes against humanity and not crimes against this or that tribe or this or that nationality. Against humanity.Additionally, I and other Kenyans here will be lobbying our government to take appropriate action and send the right signals about where we stand. Likewise, we will be lobbying the private sector, charitable organizations involved in Kenya, and so forth. Again, no need to go on and on; I'm sure you get the point. Small potatoes, no doubt, and I'm sure that Kenya and Kenyans will survive---perhaps by "turning East", I am told---but that's not the point. The point is that here we have certain principles and standards, especially when it comes to human rights. Once we get "traction" on that, I might pop in to "update" you". If you live in a country that happens (or claims) to care about humanity as opposed to nationality and tribe, then I urge you do what you can for the humans in Kenya, however misguided some of them might be. Even if the "humanity" doesn't appeal to you, think of the taxpayer-funds. If Kenya is your chosen (or enforced) place and you believe in right, then don't be cowed by power. Keep in mind Africa's history. Remember a guy like Haile Selassie? King of Kings, Conquering Lion of The Tribe of Judah, I & I, etc., etc, etc., who, will millions of Ethiopians were starving to death was feeding prime beef to his pet lions? His first burial place was under Mengitsu's toilet. Talk about sh*itting on somebody's head!Finally: There are some Jukwaaists that I frequently communicate with beyond the "public debates". The Jukwaa system doesn't automatically forward email onto private email addresses. Until my return, when the ICC-action (for crimes against humanity) resumes) you can reach me via bongozed@gmail.comIn the meantime, please no mass killing, mass rapes, mas displacement, ... crimes against humanity. If you cannot think of the humanity, at the very least try to think beyond 5 years of your own life. 1st red highlight you have many choices. consider taking dual. if in mainland Europe other than former colonizers like France, Belgium and Italy the other EU states citizens rarely show much respect for our kind however much of a 'house black person' you may want to display. if in USA, Canada or Australia the citizens are rarely able to differentiate Nairobi from Kenya or the distance between Cairo and Capetown. so in short no one will apploud you for renouncing our citizenship. 2nd red highlight if in USA ask them what they did with President George Bush on his murderous Iraqi policy? did and do they consider him as one who committed crimes against humanity. what of our current cousin, who they fondly call Barry. in Afghanistan the drones are killing Pakistani's and Afghans without a whimper from anyone. is the blood of those 'Muslims' less red than that of the rest of humanity. and if in Europe what goodness did NATO involvement in Libya bring. what good is France's involvement in Mali bringing? you can always ask those questioning you to come to Kenya and get the answers or if they are afraid they sponsor you to come and try to understand how a neighbor who has never apologized nor shown remorse to his/her victim voted almost to a (wo)man for their yesterday tormentor. on a separate note Kamalet has given you his own case where his mom is at peace after voting for the duo (one her hero another her tormentor). it could make a good PhD thesis to study this dichotomy. 3rd highlight here you abuse us and that is not polite. but considering you are far away the best thing is not for me to abuse you too! look at former Western Province voting pattern! look at the aMeru people too. do they fit this stereotype? 4th red high light I fully agree with you. President Kenyatta will have more nightmares. nearly half of the voters hate him with a passion and like his late father he will decide if he so wishes never to visit former Nyanza, Western, Coast and parts of Eastern and Rift Valley where no support for him as individual exist and will not exist. if he extends an olive branch what type will it be? frankly for those from Nyanza etc whose radios are now playing funeral music it will not be what he says that will matter but what he does. and like the outgoing President he may choose to equally ignore those who ignore him after all the Constitution has provided for devolution. will the Transition Authority be aided to implement the Constitution to the letter or will we see more stalling of the centre letting go? 5th red highlight I fully agree with you 6th red highlight that is your choice. for some of us we prefer not being fattened on other peoples' value while we laugh (and they laugh at us) at our less fortunate folk. imagine if most of us had taken that choice we probably would not have the Constitution we now have. 7th red highlight and what did Mengistu in turn become? if you are able to read 'I Didn't Do It for You: How the World Betrayed a Small African Nation'. at the end of it all we are on our own. neither you, nor the citizens and the state where you reside are going to do much for us. I Didn't Do It for You |
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Mar 9, 2013 10:32:39 GMT 3
I get real angry when some guy sitting in some lofty apartment out there gets this view that stupidity is a cooperative effort. It gets even worse when just because one can take economic refuge in some other country they can think that they have this monopoly of ideas that because the Kenyans do not vote how they think it becomes important to determine how they want to associate with Kenya. I am not sure that Otishotish was affected by PEV as to want to be offended that 6 million Kenyans have taken the decision to vote for Uhuru and Ruto. Well the two lead communities most affected by the violence. My own mother was a victim, and for many years would never hear of Ruto. But for the sake of peace she voted for the two and when I called her on Tuesday morning she was by much at peace. Today when the winner is announced, she is on the queue for her doctor's appointment in Nakuru this morning which is a peaceful city today compared to the same time in 2008. One needs to be a tottering idiot not to see the significance of this. So please go ahead and renounce your Kenyan citizenship and cut up any CORDs with the country of our birth. It is your right! But kindly do not lord it over us why you are doing it for you owe us no explanation. It would have been a lot more helpful if you had chosen a better for doing it.....but you surely cannot convince us the solution laid with Raila (and forget about the small issue of Maina Njenga) as you have rooted for him. Majority of the 12 million Kenyans did not think so, the least you can do is give them some respect. Sadly on this point you have not and on that we part company. So I hope you will settle well in your other country and that you children will have a better life not as Kenyans in that country.God speed and Good Luck. Your interventions on the ICC will be missed. Ndugu Kamale: You do not know how much I lost and have been personally affected by the PEV. And it would be pointless for us to get into some silly "justification" game or "competition" on that point. But life's' like that, isn't it? Life's also funny in that sometimes what's up comes down, and then what's down goes up. What happened during the PEV is what happened during the PEV. Whether there are 6 million votes or 7 million votes or 8 milliions votes, what happened is what happened. And we all know it. As for my general comments on the generic stupidity and greed of the person who expects mzungu to keep taking care of it, we'll we can just look at historical facts. In fact, I think we are due for another famine in about 18 to 24 months. It appears that some of my words upset you. That was not the intention. And I have no wish to lord it over you or anyone else. But I am one of you, so I understand that the African head is a hard one. You too, being one of us, understand that. Please, rest assured that I have not completely abandoned Kenya. As I indicated, I shall return for (a) The case against the ICC villains. (b) Updates on what we are doing for Kenyans----fighting oppression and mayhem from fellow Kenyans, get to eat, ... that sort of thing. So, then, friend. Fear not. I shall return. But there's a lot of hard work to be done; so it won't be soon. |
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Mar 9, 2013 10:39:10 GMT 3
Sorry, friends. I'm rushing and don't the time to read and respond to all of this. But just a quick one: don't you find it "fascinating" that after all these years we are *where* we are? THINK *HARD* ABOUT THAT ONE.
|
|
|
|
Post by b6k on Mar 9, 2013 10:39:42 GMT 3
I get real angry when some guy sitting in some lofty apartment out there gets this view that stupidity is a cooperative effort. It gets even worse when just because one can take economic refuge in some other country they can think that they have this monopoly of ideas that because the Kenyans do not vote how they think it becomes important to determine how they want to associate with Kenya. I am not sure that Otishotish was affected by PEV as to want to be offended that 6 million Kenyans have taken the decision to vote for Uhuru and Ruto. Well the two lead communities most affected by the violence. My own mother was a victim, and for many years would never hear of Ruto. But for the sake of peace she voted for the two and when I called her on Tuesday morning she was by much at peace. Today when the winner is announced, she is on the queue for her doctor's appointment in Nakuru this morning which is a peaceful city today compared to the same time in 2008. One needs to be a tottering idiot not to see the significance of this. So please go ahead and renounce your Kenyan citizenship and cut up any CORDs with the country of our birth. It is your right! But kindly do not lord it over us why you are doing it for you owe us no explanation. It would have been a lot more helpful if you had chosen a better for doing it.....but you surely cannot convince us the solution laid with Raila (and forget about the small issue of Maina Njenga) as you have rooted for him. Majority of the 12 million Kenyans did not think so, the least you can do is give them some respect. Sadly on this point you have not and on that we part company. So I hope you will settle well in your other country and that you children will have a better life not as Kenyans in that country.God speed and Good Luck. Your interventions on the ICC will be missed. , the tragedy is that Otishotish even fails to recognize that his prime motivator for renouncing his citizenship is because he cannot give his mzungu compatriots a valid reason for what his black former compatriots here have done: (1) The fact that we could soon have a President and Vice-President on trial for crimes against humanity is absolutely shocking. People in my other country have been asking me about it over the last 2 days, and I am at a loss at what to tell them.
How this is any different from his admonishment of his wayward black brothers running to the mzungu, only he knows as he seems to believe only validation from his other countrymen is worthy of recognition. Very sad indeed..... |
|
|
|
Post by b6k on Mar 9, 2013 10:47:05 GMT 3
Compatriots: At the rate at which things are going, I expect to be a former Kenyan citizen in the very near future. I shall return to Jukwaa at some point, but I thought I might make a few remarks before I go. (1) The fact that we could soon have a President and Vice-President on trial for crimes against humanity is absolutely shocking. People in my other country have been asking me about it over the last 2 days, and I am at a loss at what to tell them. (2) Just about everything about the PEV has been forgotten, because Kenya is a hopelessly tribalistic country and "follow the tribal leader" comes before anything else. Until the tribal lemmings have suffered enough (perhaps another 50 years) or evolved enough (perhaps another 5000 years), the possibility for change is near-zero. After such period and sufficient pain, perhaps Kenyans will vote on "issues" and things like "integrity". (3) The idea (past) of so many votes in so many provinces and (now) so many votes in so many counties was intended to reduce the likelihood of a "tyranny of the majority". Kenyans will need to rethink that one very carefully.(4) In relation to the PEV, what we are learning, especially after 5 years of the government of Kenya doing absolutely nothing, is that (a) if you are in power or can get the support of people in power, then you can get away with anything, and (b) if you can get dim-witted tribal sheep to come along, then you can ensure (a). Considering how often we have droughts and famines and go begging all over the world for emergency food, there is clear evidence that most Kenyans (and especially their so-called leaders) are incapable of thinking beyond the short term. That is why it is the case that even with 5 years to plan, the matter of voting and counting votes has again been such a circus. One hopes that Kenyans will now look beyond the next 5 years. (5) I count myself lucky to be living in country where I can legally fight discrimination, of whatever form, and where I and my children have better opportunities for self-realization that we could have in Kenya. In America, Obama, from the small "tribe" of African-Americans managed to succeed. Over here, my small area is likely (next year) to elect a black person from Guyana, in an area where the "black tribe" is less that 1%. If he wins, and he most likely will, it will be on the basis of his past performance, his clean record, etc. That's the sort of "fighting chance" I want my children to have as they grow up. I do not want them in a country where as long as they have enough tribes-people backing them, they can get away with anything, and if they are from a "wrong" tribe they are buggered. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. Given my impending renunciation on Kenyan citizenship, I do not expect to be much of a presence on Jukwaa. I will, however, return to comment on ICC matters. That''s because they have do do with crimes against humanity and not crimes against this or that tribe or this or that nationality. Against humanity.Additionally, I and other Kenyans here will be lobbying our government to take appropriate action and send the right signals about where we stand. Likewise, we will be lobbying the private sector, charitable organizations involved in Kenya, and so forth. Again, no need to go on and on; I'm sure you get the point. Small potatoes, no doubt, and I'm sure that Kenya and Kenyans will survive---perhaps by "turning East", I am told---but that's not the point. The point is that here we have certain principles and standards, especially when it comes to human rights. Once we get "traction" on that, I might pop in to "update" you". If you live in a country that happens (or claims) to care about humanity as opposed to nationality and tribe, then I urge you do what you can for the humans in Kenya, however misguided some of them might be. Even if the "humanity" doesn't appeal to you, think of the taxpayer-funds. If Kenya is your chosen (or enforced) place and you believe in right, then don't be cowed by power. Keep in mind Africa's history. Remember a guy like Haile Selassie? King of Kings, Conquering Lion of The Tribe of Judah, I & I, etc., etc, etc., who, will millions of Ethiopians were starving to death was feeding prime beef to his pet lions? His first burial place was under Mengitsu's toilet. Talk about sh*itting on somebody's head!Finally: There are some Jukwaaists that I frequently communicate with beyond the "public debates". The Jukwaa system doesn't automatically forward email onto private email addresses. Until my return, when the ICC-action (for crimes against humanity) resumes) you can reach me via bongozed@gmail.comIn the meantime, please no mass killing, mass rapes, mas displacement, ... crimes against humanity. If you cannot think of the humanity, at the very least try to think beyond 5 years of your own life. 1st red highlight you have many choices. consider taking dual. if in mainland Europe other than former colonizers like France, Belgium and Italy the other EU states citizens rarely show much respect for our kind however much of a 'house black person' you may want to display. if in USA, Canada or Australia the citizens are rarely able to differentiate Nairobi from Kenya or the distance between Cairo and Capetown. so in short no one will apploud you for renouncing our citizenship. 2nd red highlight if in USA ask them what they did with President George Bush on his murderous Iraqi policy? did and do they consider him as one who committed crimes against humanity. what of our current cousin, who they fondly call Barry. in Afghanistan the drones are killing Pakistani's and Afghans without a whimper from anyone. is the blood of those 'Muslims' less red than that of the rest of humanity. and if in Europe what goodness did NATO involvement in Libya bring. what good is France's involvement in Mali bringing? you can always ask those questioning you to come to Kenya and get the answers or if they are afraid they sponsor you to come and try to understand how a neighbor who has never apologized nor shown remorse to his/her victim voted almost to a (wo)man for their yesterday tormentor. on a separate note Kamalet has given you his own case where his mom is at peace after voting for the duo (one her hero another her tormentor). it could make a good PhD thesis to study this dichotomy. 3rd highlight here you abuse us and that is not polite. but considering you are far away the best thing is not for me to abuse you too! look at former Western Province voting pattern! look at the aMeru people too. do they fit this stereotype? 4th red high light I fully agree with you. President Kenyatta will have more nightmares. nearly half of the voters hate him with a passion and like his late father he will decide if he so wishes never to visit former Nyanza, Western, Coast and parts of Eastern and Rift Valley where no support for him as individual exist and will not exist. if he extends an olive branch what type will it be? frankly for those from Nyanza etc whose radios are now playing funeral music it will not be what he says that will matter but what he does. and like the outgoing President he may choose to equally ignore those who ignore him after all the Constitution has provided for devolution. will the Transition Authority be aided to implement the Constitution to the letter or will we see more stalling of the centre letting go? 5th red highlight I fully agree with you 6th red highlight that is your choice. for some of us we prefer not being fattened on other peoples' value while we laugh (and they laugh at us) at our less fortunate folk. imagine if most of us had taken that choice we probably would not have the Constitution we now have. 7th red highlight and what did Mengistu in turn become? if you are able to read 'I Didn't Do It for You: How the World Betrayed a Small African Nation'. at the end of it all we are on our own. neither you, nor the citizens and the state where you reside are going to do much for us. I Didn't Do It for You you tell it like it is. I like the bit about the "house black person" ;D ;D ;D ;D |
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Mar 9, 2013 11:05:58 GMT 3
Podp you tell it like it is. I like the bit about the "house black person" ;D ;D ;D ;D Come on, guys. Surely, you can do a bit better than the old unimaginative "house ni*gger" stuff. Besides, it won't any difference. Listen. You and I know exactly what Kenya is like and how Kenyans are. That's because we are Kenyans. And we Kenyans are mostly stupid in a tribalistic way, mostly dim-witted in the most basic essentials of life, ...., and we just proved it. Do you people know or even care that today there are IDPs living in decrepit camps (from 2007-2008)? Yes, that's not what you want to read. But 50 years post "independence" where are we today? And here's another thing: You are paying attention to this, and you might even reply, because you know I'm telling it like it is.You might not like it, but you know it. One more thing: in Kenya, when it comes to sucking up to *new* power, you can't come close to Nyayo's time. Surely, friends, we can do a bit better than the amateurish efforts you have so far come up with. |
|
|
|
Post by b6k on Mar 9, 2013 11:17:13 GMT 3
Podp you tell it like it is. I like the bit about the "house black person" ;D ;D ;D ;D Come on, guys. Surely, you can do a bit better than the old unimaginative "house ni*gger" stuff. Besides, it won't any difference. Listen. You and I know exactly what Kenya is like and how Kenyans are. That's because we are Kenyans. And we Kenyans are mostly stupid in a tribalistic way, mostly dim-witted in the most basic essentials of life, ...., and we just proved it. Do you people know or even care that today there are IDPs living in decrepit camps (from 2007-2008)? Yes, that's not what you want to read. But 50 years post "independence" where are we today? And here's another thing: You are paying attention to this, and you might even reply, because you know I'm telling it like it is.You might not like it, but you know it. One more thing: in Kenya, when it comes to sucking up to *new* power, you can't come close to Nyayo's time. Surely, friends, we can do a bit better than the amateurish efforts you have so far come up with. FYI, my family members from Molo remain IDPs to date. They moved back to Nairobi & stayed with family for a while before starting afresh. They have abandonded their farm in Molo where their patriarch was brutally murdered; hacked to pieces & dumped in his burning home. My other family members in Cherangany did not return to their farms until 2010. They made sure they spent the duration of this election cycle well away from Cherangany. I guess they will be going back soon if peace prevails. So yes I do have IDP's with different experiences. That does not take away from the fact that I will live with the decision of the majority of Kenyans even if I do not agree with it. I see no reason to burn my national ID card or passport. Life will go on. Feel free to enjoy your life in a northern land that is not yours. I will feel free to enjoy mine in KE..... |
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Mar 9, 2013 11:29:27 GMT 3
Friends:
Perhaps it was a mistake to give out my personal email address, but on the other hand, it is "useful" to know what people really think.
Let me ask you this, a question on a very simple matter: what are our contingency-plans for the next inevitable famine? What are your plans beyond shouting mindless "our man" stuff?
I will continue to fight for justice in regard to the PEV and for the human beings and their relatives and others who got affected by that. Try to remember what all that was about.
I URGE ALL JUKWAAIST, KENYANS AND OTHERWISE, TO KEEP IN MIND THE HUMANITY.
I will give up my Kenyan citizenship, but I will not give up my humantity.
|
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Mar 9, 2013 11:40:27 GMT 3
Come on, guys. Surely, you can do a bit better than the old unimaginative "house ni*gger" stuff. Besides, it won't any difference. Listen. You and I know exactly what Kenya is like and how Kenyans are. That's because we are Kenyans. And we Kenyans are mostly stupid in a tribalistic way, mostly dim-witted in the most basic essentials of life, ...., and we just proved it. Do you people know or even care that today there are IDPs living in decrepit camps (from 2007-2008)? Yes, that's not what you want to read. But 50 years post "independence" where are we today? And here's another thing: You are paying attention to this, and you might even reply, because you know I'm telling it like it is.You might not like it, but you know it. One more thing: in Kenya, when it comes to sucking up to *new* power, you can't come close to Nyayo's time. Surely, friends, we can do a bit better than the amateurish efforts you have so far come up with. FYI, my family members from Molo remain IDPs to date. They moved back to Nairobi & stayed with family for a while before starting afresh. They have abandonded their farm in Molo where their patriarch was brutally murdered; hacked to pieces & dumped in his burning home. My other family members in Cherangany did not return to their farms until 2010. They made sure they spent the duration of this election cycle well away from Cherangany. I guess they will be going back soon if peace prevails. So yes I do have IDP's with different experiences. That does not take away from the fact that I will live with the decision of the majority of Kenyans even if I do not agree with it. I see no reason to burn my national ID card or passport. Life will go on. Feel free to enjoy your life in a northern land that is not yours. I will feel free to enjoy mine in KE..... It's not a competition, friend. Crimes against humanity were committed. It has nothing to do with your specific relatives or mine. Still, I see where you are coming from: do you know that even today there are people who deny that German Holocaust against the Jews took place? And there are even Jews who profess to "understand"! Kenyans are free to elect whatever "leaders" they wish to elect. But those "leaders" are not free to do whatever they wish to Kenyans. That's where the "humanity" comes in in the "crimes against humanity". So, sorry, but I'll have to keep fighting on that front---unless someone proves to me that being Kenyan amounts to a renunciation of one's humanity. |
|
|
|
Post by jakaswanga on Mar 9, 2013 11:48:19 GMT 3
Otishotish, sorry to bug you some more ---looks like you are being gang-banged by Jukwaa irates!
I think if you will continue to fight for the humanity of Kenyans, it may be comfortable to share the same nationality with them, so that they do not dismiss you for just another foreigner sticking is beaked nose into their affairs.
From the way I see it. It is always Samora Machell. Aluta Continua. Remember it is possible to qualify Obama as effectively a degenerate President. Elsewhere, I recount how he has been avoiding Harvard of late. ---Something about those drones prof. Podp quips about.
His acquiesce to the treatment of private Manning and continuation of Guantanamo is the same thing Kenyans fought against, that is what Moi used to do to people at Nyati, Nyayo house.
So Paradise lost is not really paradise re-gained by self-imposed exile in the civilised West.
Let us state clearly why we oppose this popular choice by Kenyans. Why we agitate against it, and make sure next elections Kenyans rally to our side.
I supported Martha. Of course I was knocked dead at the polls. But I am up and running. I will be writing a position paper on why Kenneth should work with Kidero to team up, to dethrone Uhuruto.
I rate the competence of Ruto very highly as a political force. He wants to be president bad. Anybody his age-group who has the same ambitions, must now go to work.
Or after Hail Uhuru, it will be two terms hail Ruto.
History is not a picnic. And Kenya is determined to dare the fates. It is the stuff of gripping drama, and great historical pages to future students.
|
|
|
|
Post by 50cents on Mar 9, 2013 12:04:43 GMT 3
I get real angry when some guy sitting in some lofty apartment out there gets this view that stupidity is a cooperative effort. It gets even worse when just because one can take economic refuge in some other country they can think that they have this monopoly of ideas that because the Kenyans do not vote how they think it becomes important to determine how they want to associate with Kenya. I am not sure that Otishotish was affected by PEV as to want to be offended that 6 million Kenyans have taken the decision to vote for Uhuru and Ruto. Well the two lead communities most affected by the violence. My own mother was a victim, and for many years would never hear of Ruto. But for the sake of peace she voted for the two and when I called her on Tuesday morning she was by much at peace. Today when the winner is announced, she is on the queue for her doctor's appointment in Nakuru this morning which is a peaceful city today compared to the same time in 2008. One needs to be a tottering idiot not to see the significance of this. So please go ahead and renounce your Kenyan citizenship and cut up any CORDs with the country of our birth. It is your right! But kindly do not lord it over us why you are doing it for you owe us no explanation. It would have been a lot more helpful if you had chosen a better for doing it.....but you surely cannot convince us the solution laid with Raila (and forget about the small issue of Maina Njenga) as you have rooted for him. Majority of the 12 million Kenyans did not think so, the least you can do is give them some respect. Sadly on this point you have not and on that we part company. So I hope you will settle well in your other country and that you children will have a better life not as Kenyans in that country.God speed and Good Luck. Your interventions on the ICC will be missed. Relax Kamale, in the next four elections you and I will be dead and the country will move on. Welcome to democrazy, the beauty of it all is that we must co-exist with everybody whatever their affiliations are. 500 years ago the UK was going through a replica of the same stuff as we are. Fast rewind and tell those wenye country(in UK) that 500years later they even have black African women as councilors in their mother land and I tell you they will go crazy. We must now accept Ouru as the president elect and live with the consequences that come with that. We must also understand the frustrations of the Otish of this world and accept that. Not every kenyan was comfortable with the presidency of Kenyatta, Moi, Kibaki, neither should we all sing Aleluyiah at the baggage that Ouru presidency delivers. But we have a president and let us work with that. It is time to move on and am supporting Otish move. My advice to Ouru is to cooperate with the ICC to the fullest way possible and for the country to move on whether we are lead through Skype or not. |
|
|
|
Post by malkia on Mar 9, 2013 12:11:18 GMT 3
Otishotish, sorry to bug you some more ---looks like you are being gang-banged by Jukwaa irates! I think if you will continue to fight for the humanity of Kenyans, it may be comfortable to share the same nationality with them, so that they do not dismiss you for just another foreigner sticking is beaked nose into their affairs. From the way I see it. It is always Samora Machell. Aluta Continua. Remember it is possible to qualify Obama as effectively a degenerate President. Elsewhere, I recount how he has been avoiding Harvard of late. ---Something about those drones prof. Podp quips about. His acquiesce to the treatment of private Manning and continuation of Guantanamo is the same thing Kenyans fought against, that is what Moi used to do to people at Nyati, Nyayo house. So Paradise lost is not really paradise re-gained by self-imposed exile in the civilised West. Let us state clearly why we oppose this popular choice by Kenyans. Why we agitate against it, and make sure next elections Kenyans rally to our side. I supported Martha. Of course I was knocked dead at the polls. But I am up and running. I will be writing a position paper on why Kenneth should work with Kidero to team up, to dethrone Uhuruto. I rate the competence of Ruto very highly as a political force. He wants to be president bad. Anybody his age-group who has the same ambitions, must now go to work. Or after Hail Uhuru, it will be two terms hail Ruto. History is not a picnic. And Kenya is determined to dare the fates. It is the stuff of gripping drama, and great historical pages to future students. OO this is sexist and offensive. Actually Jakaswanga's posts are frequently sexist and I have tolerated many offensive statements but when we start to tolerate rape jokes I refuse to be silent. Let's try and express ourselves intelligently without resorting to demeaning each other due to ethnicity, tribe or gender. We can only do this by being intolerant of sexism, racisim and tribalism. |
|
|
|
Post by b6k on Mar 9, 2013 12:11:48 GMT 3
FYI, my family members from Molo remain IDPs to date. They moved back to Nairobi & stayed with family for a while before starting afresh. They have abandonded their farm in Molo where their patriarch was brutally murdered; hacked to pieces & dumped in his burning home. My other family members in Cherangany did not return to their farms until 2010. They made sure they spent the duration of this election cycle well away from Cherangany. I guess they will be going back soon if peace prevails. So yes I do have IDP's with different experiences. That does not take away from the fact that I will live with the decision of the majority of Kenyans even if I do not agree with it. I see no reason to burn my national ID card or passport. Life will go on. Feel free to enjoy your life in a northern land that is not yours. I will feel free to enjoy mine in KE..... It's not a competition, friend. Crimes against humanity were committed. It has nothing to do with your specific relatives or mine. Still, I see where you are coming from: do you know that even today there are people who deny that German Holocaust against the Jews took place? And there are even Jews who profess to "understand"! Kenyans are free to elect whatever "leaders" they wish to elect. But those "leaders" are not free to do whatever they wish to Kenyans. That's where the "humanity" comes in in the "crimes against humanity". So, sorry, but I'll have to keep fighting on that front---unless someone proves to me that being Kenyan amounts to a renunciation of one's humanity. , indeed it's not a competition but it must be stated you have a knack to be somewhat condescending to those of us he live in KE. As you saw with the election results about 5.4m people are not happy with the outcome. That gives you no right to insult ALL Kenyans for the choices the 6.1m have made. At the end of the day all 40m of us will have to live with the outcome, preferably peacefully. KE will grow at her own pace, on her own terms regardless of what the Johnny Carson's (& Otishotish's) of this world may have to say. Indeed as Jendayi Frazer stated in the tele-conference such patronizing "consequences" lectures may have done more harm than good by strengthening positions & confirming myths of persecution. So yes we do understand the challenges we face & the shortcomings we may have. But have you even taken a moment to consider the Uhuruto marriage of convenience from a different angle? This humanity thing you keep touting, isn't the fact that the two antagonists from '07/'08 are on the same side working in peace & harmony together a reflection the ultimate gesture in humanity..... FORGIVENESS? Even if it may be temporary, it's a heck of a lot better than the killing fields we had in the last election. A little step off your high horse will go a long way. We will continue trying to build our nation with the human material we have on hand, one step at a time. You go & build yours... |
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Mar 9, 2013 12:12:20 GMT 3
No need to apologize for bugging me; everyone and his/her dog has been doing it for the last few hours.
I hear you, friend Jakaswanga. But before we get to "gripping drama, and great historical pages to future students" what do Kenyans plan to eat at the next famine? More yellow maize from America again? Perhaps there are plans beyond getting the next tribal warlord into State House?
Once we have an answer to that, we can get to little awkward bits like mass rapes, dicks being chopped off with broken bottles ... the PEV stuff.
I have to admit that it;s not entirely friendly and brotherly to state that Kenyans are overwhelmed with tribal stupidity. But just between us, looking at the facts. Come on! And pretty soon ... the 2007-2008 PEV never happened. A little historical misunderstanding perhaps. Although to the person who got a dick chopped off in that little misunderstanding ..
|
|
