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Post by mank on Aug 25, 2013 22:04:56 GMT 3
Man Mank, Sorry Amigo! these are not the kind of come backs I was promising for this thread! But you know Jukwaa! there are also pet wars to be fought! Amigo, Not to worry - but I wonder where it all started now that it flows into every thread. I am sure we will get back to what this thread was about. The detour is regrettable.
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Post by b6k on Aug 26, 2013 8:55:04 GMT 3
b6k, your cryptic old self! ---or is this a new fella altogether? Jakaswanga, as Sean Connery's character told the young grasshopper in the movie The Highlander, "there can be only one!", a phrase the young hero would repeat every time before dispatching his competition to their maker by beheading them. To understand the cricket sound significance you have to be steeped in the culture of our friends and allies in Les Etats Unis. Anytime an awkward joke or comment is made, that silence that follows its utterance is filled in with the chirps of crickets, as nature abhors a vacuum. Hope that's now clear...
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Post by podp on Aug 26, 2013 15:22:21 GMT 3
I agree naijaland is not worthy comparing oneself to if one wishes to avoid the situation they are in. however former energy minister, now senator for Meru, once went on a fact finding trip to Russia, Norway, Ghana and naijaland. he later confessed like he did on Githongo and much earlier on 'raping' a willing girl! he said nd walked the talk of naijaland. he discarded Norway and Ghana as utopian. seeing Uhuru in Russia it is almost convincing that the senator is not alone in discarding Ghana and Norway as role models on how to do energy deals. someone whispered to me the reason more blocks are licenced off show is that no pipeline is needed. you just bring a ship and it is filled with oil and sails off. that is how Umaru Ndiko www.nairaland.com/957915/buhari-gets-mad-corruption-re-umaru could have oil tankers dissapper with naijaland oil. so for the off shore cases there will be no warrior like ethnicities to deal with. that aside it is not possible for Kenya to go bankrupt. but the oligarchies will mutate, later cannibalize each other but the country will remain solid
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Post by jakaswanga on Aug 26, 2013 19:02:42 GMT 3
that aside it is not possible for Kenya to go bankrupt. but the oligarchies will mutate, later cannibalize each other but the country will remain solid Are you saying it is impossible for COUNTRIES or states for that matter to go bankrupt. I was thinking Mank was using the economic definition of bankruptcy, underwritten by the Detroit example he gave, and such definition from which a number of countries can be pinpointed that have gone bankrupt! ---Argentina which Fimbo mentioned? www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23832247
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Post by mank on Sept 2, 2013 21:58:14 GMT 3
that aside it is not possible for Kenya to go bankrupt. but the oligarchies will mutate, later cannibalize each other but the country will remain solid Are you saying it is impossible for COUNTRIES or states for that matter to go bankrupt. I was thinking Mank was using the economic definition of bankruptcy, underwritten by the Detroit example he gave, and such definition from which a number of countries can be pinpointed that have gone bankrupt! ---Argentina which Fimbo mentioned? www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23832247PODP, please elaborate. Why is it not possible for Kenya to go bankrupt? Bankruptcy, in financial terms, is the state in which a party is unable to service its debts. Amigo Jakaswanga has done more than his share to point out countries that have been in such unenviable state. You seem to echo Fimbo who has been telling us that a country cannot go bankrupt because it has the authority to print its money ... an idea that would interest Banglapesa managers were it not for the fact that they see through it all too easily. This thread is inspired by a sense that lately Kenya's managers don't view Wanjiku's money as exhaustible. They seem to be on a spending competition .... "you can't outspend me . ....", they seem to say to each other. When we heard that Kenya had discovered oil in Turkana, I threw out a crazy bet that it would not be long before we start hearing of delegations traveling around the world claiming to be seeking investors. His excellency has already taken on such an expedition ... methinks there are ways to attract competitive investment in Kenya's oil fields without travelling the world ... but then that would not spend enough Kshs. We have created what I suspect is one of the largest governments per capita in the world, with equally exceptional salaries and bonuses. Think about that vis-a-viz where we are placed on a scale of the richest to the poorest countries of the world. There is good reason to worry about our future solvency if spending remains out of whack with our production. ... if our politicians seem all about spending and doing it in a mighty way. That said though, the majority economic indicators for the country are upbeat. See here. There should be a word of caution to go with that sentiment though, that the economic indicators that will capture the economic impact of recent expansion of government and the crazy spending at various offices are ahead of us.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 25, 2014 21:10:43 GMT 3
Mank, This is b6k quoted speaking: Our stalwart pugilists Otishotish and b6k, are of course some of the best we have around here. So when they engage in an intercontinental (rofl)championship match, it is not easy to contain the kind of weaponry they bring to bear in a narrow confine. I vouch the SGR-ring (from whence I lifted these quotes) is too small, so I will migrate with some of those blows for a safer analysis here ....[ CAN A COUNTRY LIKE KENYA GO BANKRUPT] This post by b6k in the Standard Railway Thread, meseems, touches on a myriad of interesting points, and highlights some specifics which, further dissected without nationalist pride doing the running, can help us illuminate some aspects of POSSIBLE bankruptcy we were handling here. –Hopefully Main Man Fimbo will be back! When you see him, holler! Amigo, to start you off: can we now agree Detroit, in the light of too big to fail, is a mini [economic entity] metropolis that can be let fail! In other words her bankruptcy does not constitute a threat to the general system, merely a test-tube case study! On the surface of what b6k writes, one can infer that the USA itself was on the brink of economic collapse ---we will argue later whether a collapse of the banking sector is automatically a collapse of the whole financial sector, and too, automatically a collapse of the general economy! What Is amazing is the fact that the near collapse of the USA is explained more in terms of GREED and corruption by a particular dominant sector, and not, as we have been saying for Detroit, tax/productive base vs expenditure posts! Mank wrote: Mank, I assume, that Detroit was able to maintain this 'comfort zone lifes-tyle' for the while, because of the availability of cheap credit. That is, the city progressively went into debt to fund fun, until no new creditors could be found, foolish enough to believe Detroit was credit worthy, in the sense of the city could reasonably be expected to repay at some point in the future! I find this [availability or not of credit] an important nuance. When a non productive economic entity, already in hefty debt, is starved of credit, it has no options but to surrender. Actually it was a similar construction that forced Berlusconi and Papandreau [Italy and Greek premiers respectively to resign]. When Angela Merkel's Bundesbank which controls the ECB said no credit, Greco-Italian options were to find the money in the open financial markets.
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Post by mank on Feb 26, 2014 2:07:11 GMT 3
Mank, This is b6k quoted speaking:Our stalwart pugilists Otishotish and b6k, are of course some of the best we have around here. So when they engage in an intercontinental (rofl)championship match, it is not easy to contain the kind of weaponry they bring to bear in a narrow confine. I vouch the SGR-ring (from whence I lifted these quotes) is too small, so I will migrate with some of those blows for a safer analysis here ....[ CAN A COUNTRY LIKE KENYA GO BANKRUPT] This post by b6k in the Standard Railway Thread, meseems, touches on a myriad of interesting points, and highlights some specifics which, further dissected without nationalist pride doing the running, can help us illuminate some aspects of POSSIBLE bankruptcy we were handling here. –Hopefully Main Man Fimbo will be back! When you see him, holler! Amigo, to start you off: can we now agree Detroit, in the light of too big to fail, is a mini [economic entity] metropolis that can be let fail! In other words her bankruptcy does not constitute a threat to the general system, merely a test-tube case study! On the surface of what b6k writes, one can infer that the USA itself was on the brink of economic collapse ---we will argue later whether a collapse of the banking sector is automatically a collapse of the whole financial sector, and too, automatically a collapse of the general economy! What Is amazing is the fact that the near collapse of the USA is explained more in terms of GREED and corruption by a particular dominant sector, and not, as we have been saying for Detroit, tax/productive base vs expenditure posts! Mank wrote: Mank, I assume, that Detroit was able to maintain this 'comfort zone lifes-tyle' for the while, because of the availability of cheap credit. That is, the city progressively went into debt to fund fun, until no new creditors could be found, foolish enough to believe Detroit was credit worthy, in the sense of the city could reasonably be expected to repay at some point in the future! I find this [availability or not of credit] an important nuance. When a non productive economic entity, already in hefty debt, is starved of credit, it has no options but to surrender. Actually it was a similar construction that forced Berlusconi and Papandreau [Italy and Greek premiers respectively to resign]. When Angela Merkel's Bundesbank which controls the ECB said no credit, Greco-Italian options were to find the money in the open financial markets. Amigo, I remember Aug/Sept 2008 very well. ... if you were in the US and had a little appreciation of the importance of working financial markets you couldn't forget those days ... there was talk of withdrawing money from banks all over, and infact many people had already started banking in their pillows. Banks had started restricting withdrawals, which only fueld more fear. The bank bail out came just in time ... we would have have been in a depression to dwarf the one we call "the great depression." I might look for the movies you recommend, but amigo, unlike amigo Njakip, I know greed and corruption is not a preserve of Kenyans, or Africans. By the way, do you know how the great Cocacola company came about? Talk about greed ... but why just cocacola ... you know about the purchase and smuggling of Africans for use like oxen and mules in growing the west ... look what greed can do! NO, Africans have not even had an opportunity to measure up to competition. Njakip is nuts! You are right about Detroit's access to credit ... the same juice that greed used to almost cripple the global economy in 2008. But while Detroit was bulking up her balance sheet with credit, some Detroit smarts were figuring it out ... and were saying, I ain't staying around to pay any of that ... so they were packing and leaving town. Kenyans don't have to pack and leave town when Kenya is too mortgaged. They don't have a lot to pay with anyway, so it is even more of a problem when they stick around ... oh, just an observation to make: Njakip packed and left town! That's more of the bad things because if anyone should stay for the troubled times, it should be our best at figuring things.
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Post by OtishOtish on Feb 26, 2014 4:41:46 GMT 3
Friend Mank:
Nowhere did I state or even suggest that greed and corruption do not exist elsewhere; more careful reading, attempts to understand the argument that was made ... Being a small man, I tend to look at these things in terms of how they affect the small people. In Kenya ... But even with the economic troubles the world has had since 2008, ... By the way, I don't know why I keep getting told about America, CocaCola, Detroit, etc.. I have little to do with that country; and I were to give examples of places where both greed and corruption are controlled, I would pick other countries. Of course, greed is a fundamental part of human nature, and economics we have it in the Capitalism, which even the "Communists" have grown to love.
We may take it for a given that there is some corruption in every country. The question then is not its mere existence, but the effect it has. There, instead of anecdotal evidence, about CocaCola or whatever, we can refer to numerous systematic studies that also provide comparisons for those who insist on comparisons. In the case of Kenya, other than the numerous studies, the ordinary Kenyan feels it everyday, and there is hardly a day that the subject is not in the news and in big way, and so on. We can all argue, but we know the reality of the situation. Therefore, what Kenyans ought to do is worry less about places like America and worry more about in Kenya ... look at where they rank in the Human Development Index, for example, and deal with the fact of Kenyan humans hardly developing.
Look, if Kenyans who live in Kenya are OK with the levels of corruption there, then, for the most part that's just fine with me. I'm all for works-in-progress, even if there appears to be very little work and hardly any progress. I don't care for greed and corruption, but I can tolerate the levels we have here. From what I'm being told I understand Kenyans can tolerate the levels that exist in Kenya. I think that's just great. Folks there can be happy over there, and I can be happy over here. All's well with the world. And that's how it should be. What a lovely world ...
But let me give you a little example of why some works-in-progress bother me:
Just today, I read Kenya's Agriculture Cabinet Secretary, Felix Koskei, warned that Kenyans are in danger of starvation. It is alleged that some people are already eating dogs. Nothing new there. Mr. Koskei says GoK doesn't have anywhere near enough money to do the job that needs to be done and pleads with "international partners" to hand over something. What those partners would be handing over is *our* taxes out here; and they will probably hand it over because they don't care to see another round of thousands of Jakaswanga's Portrait of Vulture And Starving Kid (entered in Still Life and Real Life categories). Meanwhile Kenyans are blowing their money, left, right, and centre. Work in progress. You wouldn't guess it from the looks of things, but a great vision is about to be realized: the world's next industrial power will be here on schedule---2030. While Kenyans wait for the Second Coming in that year, I encourage them to consider the possibility that they can feed themselves if they put their minds to it---less corruption, more competence in the running of the country, and hard work. Self-respect and that sort of thing.
Take a look at that photo Jakaswanga has under his name (on the left). The world does not and will not think much of people who make a lot of noise but cannot even feed themselves. I shall never be able to understand how people put up with such humiliation as having to regularly beg for food ... But I suppose that even in the best-run countries in the world there are starving people, just as there are greed and corruption. Right? Perhaps we should tell Mr. Koskei that we too have our problems ...
Seeing as I keep getting told about America, perhaps a few words in return: What a country! How many times has American yellow maize saved Kenyans from starving to death! How fortunate Kenya is to have been included in America's Feed The Future program, so that there is somebody actually thinking of what Kenyans will eat! ARVs in Kenya? America! Fight against malaria? America! (I won't go through the entire list.) Oh, land of the brave and free (or whatever it is), Kenyans praise thee ... not all are unreasonable ingrates.
If I were in Kenya, I would be looking at things like proper feeding of the population, basic healthcare, decent housing, employment, ... and wondering if the available money could be put to better use. But, hey! The rest of the world too has those problems, in one way of another! So, let's not argue too much about such things. Best of luck with the work-in-progress, but try to cut back on the endless begging from the rest of a world that increasingly sees only unending irresponsibility, as though children were playing a game of running a country. You know ... the kind of tinker-toy place where a person is declared(by the chief law-enforcement offer) to be exempt from arrest on the grounds that he might find it embarrassing.
Oh, where was I ... Ah, corruption. Happens all over the world. Why worry about it Kenya. Kazi iendelee. Digitally, of course.
So, back to the main question: can a country like Kenya go bankrupt? I wouldn't worry too much about that. Other countries have gone bankrupt, or are going bankrupt, or can go bankrupt. Anyway ... if the Kenyan economy ever looks like it's going under, GoK can easily bail it out ... I understand the Americans have already showed us how that sort of thing is done!
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Post by podp on Feb 26, 2014 12:23:29 GMT 3
"It's not provided in the federal bankruptcy laws. There is a provision for municipalities and any other kind of organization in the state to go bankrupt, but not the state itself," .... "In the United States we have a federal system where the states have powers that are protected from the national government, so there's a real question about supremacy and whether the federal government can impose bankruptcy rules on the state, which is supposed to have powers that are protected from the federal government," www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2013-07-20/state-cant-declare-bankruptcy.htmlI do not think Kenya can go bankrupt. among the worst run countries the best examples were Uganda during Idi Amin Dada's time and Congo when Mobutu rated as a Tyrannosaurus Rex of the breed, setting an example not to be followed. Mobutu beat Biya, Bongo, Mugabe and our own Moi as no other president who had been presented with a country of such potential, yet achieved so little. no other leader had plundered his economyso effectively or lived the high life to such excess. below is what Mobutu did but it still did not bankrupt Congo.... Mobutu's 1st hunt for disposable income was in Shaba. many Katangans believe Shaba was made poor so that they would be dependent on Kinshasha. the destruction of the copper mining companies was deliberate. for 30 years they bled Katanga dry and in exchange what did they get? they were colonised a second time, first by the Belgians and then by Mobutu regime selling copper, cobalt etc. Mobutu's 2nd hunt was East Kasai, home to the Luba people who are dubbed the Jews of Congo. the Luba are regarded with suspicion by their fellow nationals as a little too good in business; aggressive wheeler dealers overly prone to share the fruits of their worldly success exclusively with their ethnic brothers and sisters while ruthlessly boxing out other ethnic groups'Let one Luba into your business, and next thing you know, they'll be running it' is a warning Kinshasa residents give. diamonds found at Mbuji Mayi, the town built where a subsidiary of the great Congo river meaders lazily across the plain, depositing the tiny stones washed from the green grey pipes of kimberlite. it is from the diamond counters the kleptocracy was no longer a creation of one man, Mobutu! it acquired an unstoppable momentum. Mobutu's last stand was to print money for survival. the process would be ordered into action by having army lorries sent to the Central Bank and the thick wads of pristine Zaire notes quietly unloaded on what Radio Trottoir (pavement radio) had dubbed "Wall Street"; the alleyways where scores of Kinshasa's divorcees, widows and single mothers would sit with bulky bags of money on their knees setting the day's exchange rate. dumping their notes, still in the plastic wrappers in which they had been issues, the top officials would hurredly exchange them for dollars, francs, etc. the only stable landmarks in a world of constantly shifting value. but as word spread on Wall Street of yet another mystery delivery, the day's rate would change and the Zaire would fall...fall. one time inflation rate reached 9,800 per cent
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 27, 2014 0:16:49 GMT 3
" I might look for the movies you recommend, but amigo, unlike amigo Njakip, I know greed and corruption is not a preserve of Kenyans, or Africans. By the way, do you know how the great Cocacola company came about? Talk about greed ... but why just cocacola ... you know about the purchase and smuggling of Africans for use like oxen and mules in growing the west ... look what greed can do! NO, Africans have not even had an opportunity to measure up to competition. Njakip is nuts! You are right about Detroit's access to credit ... the same juice that greed used to almost cripple the global economy in 2008. But while Detroit was bulking up her balance sheet with credit, some Detroit smarts were figuring it out ... and were saying, I ain't staying around to pay any of that ... so they were packing and leaving town. Kenyans don't have to pack and leave town when Kenya is too mortgaged. They don't have a lot to pay with anyway, so it is even more of a problem when they stick around ... oh, just an observation to make: Njakip packed and left town! That's more of the bad things because if anyone should stay for the troubled times, it should be our best at figuring things. Mank! If you go back to that thread, a careful read would discount: there is no suggestion by Otishotish whatsoever, that he thinks or intimates greed is the preserve of Kenyans/Africans! --yawa, amigo, imer [are you on meth! ]? And on a thread like this one, I do not think it is useful continuing with the bashing on the other thread. I think here we can do a lot of abstractions, you know like on greed, we recall Adam Smith: it is to to his kindness of heart that we owe the baker's early warm bread, it is rather to his GREED! desire to be rich. And Margaret Thatcher later paraphrased by Michael Douglas in the Bonfire: GREED IS GOOD!I think these philosophical abstractions may be more useful pointers than which country is better than which one, and whose loyalty is firmer, more pious to Afrika! NB: I think bankruptcy is a well/tight defined concept in economics. I therefore get worried when Podp claims Congo was not bankrupt at the end of Mobutu's rule. I think Congo had less than $70M when Kabila Snr. took over. That one could not even pay his army for one month! What followed was a mortgaging of the Kongo to creditors, some of whom have filed cases claiming all of Congos diamonds for the next 100 years! and in some way the bankruptcy of the Congo state, and the chosen path by Kabila seniour of dealing with it, is what led to his death, and ultimately the social turmoil. Even from a moral sense, the raping of grandmothers and babies alike en masse, is surely a bankruptcy, a cultural bankruptcy!
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Post by mank on Feb 27, 2014 3:26:55 GMT 3
" I might look for the movies you recommend, but amigo, unlike amigo Njakip, I know greed and corruption is not a preserve of Kenyans, or Africans. By the way, do you know how the great Cocacola company came about? Talk about greed ... but why just cocacola ... you know about the purchase and smuggling of Africans for use like oxen and mules in growing the west ... look what greed can do! NO, Africans have not even had an opportunity to measure up to competition. Njakip is nuts! You are right about Detroit's access to credit ... the same juice that greed used to almost cripple the global economy in 2008. But while Detroit was bulking up her balance sheet with credit, some Detroit smarts were figuring it out ... and were saying, I ain't staying around to pay any of that ... so they were packing and leaving town. Kenyans don't have to pack and leave town when Kenya is too mortgaged. They don't have a lot to pay with anyway, so it is even more of a problem when they stick around ... oh, just an observation to make: Njakip packed and left town! That's more of the bad things because if anyone should stay for the troubled times, it should be our best at figuring things. Mank! If you go back to that thread, a careful read would discount: there is no suggestion by Otishotish whatsoever, that he thinks or intimates greed is the preserve of Kenyans/Africans! --yawa, amigo, imer [are you on meth! ]? And on a thread like this one, I do not think it is useful continuing with the bashing on the other thread. Oops, my apologies then ... to you and amigo Njakip. In any case it was a friendly jab veiled as a bash. ... but it is not in this thread I will read to assess the premise of my jab ... it is anywhere Njakip has explained why he trashed his natural citizenship ... I hope Njakip has a tough skin. But me on meth amigo ? . But dont mix the greed we were talking about with the general greed of the capitalist ... otherwise the greed the father of economics talks about is greed that is served through willing buyer/willing seller interactions. I hesitate to narrate the story of cocacola's beginnings here ... even Oprah does not dare stories of that caliber these days ... since the time she talked about mad cows. I am with you. Now its Podp you should ask if he was on meth.
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Post by podp on Mar 1, 2014 20:39:29 GMT 3
I hesitate to narrate the story of cocacola's beginnings here ... even Oprah does not dare stories of that caliber these days ... since the time she talked about mad cows. I am with you. Now its Podp you should ask if he was on meth. First we will consider how government debt works by discussing the underpinning issues in sovereign bankruptcy, a distinction between sovereign default and bankruptcy will be made. Secondly, the statement made by Walter Wriston will be examined by making reference to practical and historical examples to determine if sovereigns can go bankrupt. Thirdly, the lack of any legal mechanism for dealing with sovereign bankruptcy and the practical difficulty of applying existing principles of bankruptcy to sovereigns will be discussed. Finally, this paper will conclude by establishing that legally sovereigns do not go bankrupt but practically it is possible for them to do so. www.chasecambria.com/site/journal/article.php?id=582so when I brought up Congo under dead Mobutu era it was to show that despite all 'countries don't go bankrupt since their assets always exceed whatever debt may be incurred'. assets here means both people and physical material. we all know that when we take Africa in general and Kenya in particular we have had progression of human values, wealth creation, etc. and in that context despite all the negatives that are occurring the positives outweigh them.
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Post by mank on Mar 1, 2014 22:19:57 GMT 3
First we will consider how government debt works by discussing the underpinning issues in sovereign bankruptcy, a distinction between sovereign default and bankruptcy will be made. Secondly, the statement made by Walter Wriston will be examined by making reference to practical and historical examples to determine if sovereigns can go bankrupt. Thirdly, the lack of any legal mechanism for dealing with sovereign bankruptcy and the practical difficulty of applying existing principles of bankruptcy to sovereigns will be discussed. Finally, this paper will conclude by establishing that legally sovereigns do not go bankrupt but practically it is possible for them to do so. www.chasecambria.com/site/journal/article.php?id=582so when I brought up Congo under dead Mobutu era it was to show that despite all 'countries don't go bankrupt since their assets always exceed whatever debt may be incurred'. assets here means both people and physical material. we all know that when we take Africa in general and Kenya in particular we have had progression of human values, wealth creation, etc. and in that context despite all the negatives that are occurring the positives outweigh them. PODP, I am of the opinion that if we analyze Walter Wriston's and Adams Smith's positions on this matter we must conclude that they address different policy concerns - or from two different perspectives (Jackaswanga, shall we say there is a nuance?. I say this at the risk of error on reason of having too little to go by, as I can access only the intro part of the story. First, neither of them seems to question the burden, on a sovereign entity, of over-borrowing. What seems to explain the difference of opinion is that Walter's opinion is sympathetic to the lending institutions, while Adam Smith's is sympathetic to the sovereign party and its constituents. I would go further and argue that for us, Adam Smith's stance represents the spirit of the topic here. Since we are the "people" of the sovereign state that is the bull's eye in this subject, we cannot reasonably agree with the view that the sovereign cannot go bankrupt because it has assets ... ourselves and our offspring. It is our concern with what "bad" borrowing by the state means for us and our offspring that moves us into this discussion.
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 2, 2014 18:07:15 GMT 3
First we will consider how government debt works by discussing the underpinning issues in sovereign bankruptcy, a distinction between sovereign default and bankruptcy will be made. Secondly, the statement made by Walter Wriston will be examined by making reference to practical and historical examples to determine if sovereigns can go bankrupt. Thirdly, the lack of any legal mechanism for dealing with sovereign bankruptcy and the practical difficulty of applying existing principles of bankruptcy to sovereigns will be discussed. Finally, this paper will conclude by establishing that legally sovereigns do not go bankrupt but practically it is possible for them to do so. www.chasecambria.com/site/journal/article.php?id=582so when I brought up Congo under dead Mobutu era it was to show that despite all 'countries don't go bankrupt since their assets always exceed whatever debt may be incurred'. assets here means both people and physical material. we all know that when we take Africa in general and Kenya in particular we have had progression of human values, wealth creation, etc. and in that context despite all the negatives that are occurring the positives outweigh them. PODP, I am of the opinion that if we analyze Walter Wriston's and Adams Smith's positions on this matter we must conclude that they address different policy concerns - or from two different perspectives (Jackaswanga, shall we say there is a nuance?. I say this at the risk of error on reason of having too little to go by, as I can access only the intro part of the story. First, neither of them seems to question the burden, on a sovereign entity, of over-borrowing. What seems to explain the difference of opinion is that Walter's opinion is sympathetic to the lending institutions, while Adam Smith's is sympathetic to the sovereign party and its constituents. I would go further and argue that for us, Adam Smith's stance represents the spirit of the topic here. Since we are the "people" of the sovereign state that is the bull's eye in this subject, we cannot reasonably agree with the view that the sovereign cannot go bankrupt because it has assets ... ourselves and our offspring. It is our concern with what "bad" borrowing by the state means for us and our offspring that moves us into this discussion. Yo, Mank, Yo, Podp, I read: Amigos, in this thread as I understood it, we are not using the term bankruptcy in an amorphous undefined and general way! We are using it as a technical term, as understood by economists. ----So the trick to me is ... constraints, as in no money to pay. No more in means to meet obligations, some very primary, like daily salaries. --These can be met officially but practically by useless means sometimes. Like Zimbabue paid salaries of a zillion, where bread costed 3 zillion! (it is pay yes, but is it pay really?) The USA has had to increase its debt ceiling more than thrice, to generate paper money to pay salaries and interest rates, defaults of which would have ruined its financial reputation, eroded its other power status, and set her up for all manner of decline, including prestige. Their assets always exceed their liabilities. But those assets are not always in the ‘’convertible form’’ which can immediately be used in the short-term to pay daily bills and buy daily food, or be mortgaged in the long-term which money-lenders find safe enough to risk ---can you pay that monthly rate without default!? For instance: Congo with its 80 Million people, is, in the long-term, long historical term, the potential of Germany with an equivalent population but currently a stupendous GDP compared to Kongo. Kongo’s assets ---the doctors, engineers, scientists she will train and have operational in future, are indeed inexhaustible! Kongo’s mineral wealth, estimated at $5 trn, are indeed stupendous in potential. But do you want me to give you pictures of how emaciated, disease-ridden, illiterate the children of Kongo currently are? Or that only another state like China was ready to fund Kongo through a patch! --Private financial banks were ready to trade and speculate on Congo's debts, but not LOAN her money! In the here and now, all that inexhaustible wealth and potential, mean zero to the majority of the population in that country. And Walter Wriston knows there is no bank in business which uses the dreams of the far, far future as collateral!
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Post by podp on Mar 2, 2014 21:20:31 GMT 3
Amigos, in this thread as I understood it, we are not using the term bankruptcy in an amorphous undefined and general way! We are using it as a technical term, as understood by economists. ----So the trick to me is ... constraints, as in no money to pay. No more in means to meet obligations, some very primary, like daily salaries. -- These can be met officially but practically by useless means sometimes. Like Zimbabue paid salaries of a zillion, where bread costed 3 zillion! (it is pay yes, but is it pay really?)The USA has had to increase its debt ceiling more than thrice, to generate paper money to pay salaries and interest rates, defaults of which would have ruined its financial reputation, eroded its other power status, and set her up for all manner of decline, including prestige. Their assets always exceed their liabilities. But those assets are not always in the ‘’convertible form’’ which can immediately be used in the short-term to pay daily bills and buy daily food, or be mortgaged in the long-term which money-lenders find safe enough to risk ---can you pay that monthly rate without default!? For instance: Congo with its 80 Million people, is, in the long-term, long historical term, the potential of Germany with an equivalent population but currently a stupendous GDP compared to Kongo. Kongo’s assets ---the doctors, engineers, scientists she will train and have operational in future, are indeed inexhaustible! Kongo’s mineral wealth, estimated at $5 trn, are indeed stupendous in potential. But do you want me to give you pictures of how emaciated, disease-ridden, illiterate the children of Kongo currently are? Or that only another state like China was ready to fund Kongo through a patch! -- Private financial banks were ready to trade and speculate on Congo's debts, but not LOAN her money!In the here and now, all that inexhaustible wealth and potential, mean zero to the majority of the population in that country. And Walter Wriston knows there is no bank in business which uses the dreams of the far, far future as collateral!1st red high light actually in Zimbwabwe they use both their Z $ and USA $. So if you are handling Z $s then of course what you say stands. However if in addition to those Z $s you are added prime land as a Veteran freedom fighter then you do what akina Ruto did to make their loot....you sell it to your version of NSSF and ask the payment in US $s. in Congo the 1st army mutiny when Mobutu started going down occurred when shop keepers and other businesses refused to accept the newly issued zaire note of 500,000. eventually Congo had four regions using different currencies....Katanga area preferred the old zaire (printed before 1995); Kasai used US $, French and Belgian francs; Kinshasa used new zaire while Eastern Congo up to today prefers Kenya shillings even above US $s because they send for good from Kenya using our money. 2nd red high light why banks have not developed in Congo from the last days of Mobutu to present is because of the fluidity of their currency. additionally although the country has a Kabila ruling from Kinshasa he and his administration do not have an idea what is being mined from example Eastern Congo i.e. coltran etc. hence it is private armies some operated from East African countries and others from USA, Europe, China and Russia who operate various mining sites in the East, South and areas Kinshasa regime has no control of. so no bank will give the regime in Congo a loan as the President is commander in chief of the presidential guard that protects him and his authority does not extend far from where he is at any particular moment 3rd red high light. of course when you have a situation of a kleptomaniac led by the President and all who deal near him you have a situation JM Kariuki said of 10 millionaires and 10 million beggars. Michael Waibel clarified the distinction between sovereign default and sovereign bankruptcy, and he shed light on the question when a state may be considered to be bankrupt. he sought to demonstrate why the orthodox position (i.e. Countries are always able to pay back debt....if countries default, this is due to a lack of liquidity, rather than a lack of solvency....over time, the government's taxation power puts the country in a position to meet all its financial obligations, no matter how large) is flawed. historically countries that are serial defaulters like Spain (defaulted 14 times between 1557 and 1696), France (defaulted on its debt 11 times, the latest default in 1788 was one of the reason the French revolution occurred)....more recently Argentina's external debt topped 160% of GDP and Iceland in 2008 public debt went from less than 5% to more than 120% in a space of a few months. the mainstream view in modern macroeconomics is that a country's capacity to pay is unlimited, at least for all practical purposes. the assumption that states exist forever implies the net present value of their power to tax is infinite i.e. over their lifespan, states benefit from inexhaustible source of revenue. 2nd assumption is that states retain the power to confiscate substantially all assets of their citizens. 3rd assumption is that modern government are said to have plenty of scope to cut back their expenditures to achieve sufficient primary surpluses. 4th assumption is as monetary sovereigns, countries are said to enjoy control over the money supply. this implies that as a result of complete control over its currency, a state can never be bankrupt by reasons of liabilities denominated is such currency i.e. a state's inability to pay relates to foreign currency obligation only. Waibel tore in those 4 assumptions and you may want to read at aieln1.web.fc2.com/Waibel_panel5.pdfstopdebtvultures.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/The-Bankruptcy-of-Nations-Let-the-Law-Reflect-Reality.pdf
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Post by mank on Mar 3, 2014 3:46:21 GMT 3
Yo, Mank, Yo, Podp, I read: Amigos, in this thread as I understood it, we are not using the term bankruptcy in an amorphous undefined and general way! We are using it as a technical term, as understood by economists. ----So the trick to me is ... constraints, as in no money to pay. No more in means to meet obligations, some very primary, like daily salaries. -- These can be met officially but practically by useless means sometimes. Like Zimbabue paid salaries of a zillion, where bread costed 3 zillion! (it is pay yes, but is it pay really?) The USA has had to increase its debt ceiling more than thrice, to generate paper money to pay salaries and interest rates, defaults of which would have ruined its financial reputation, eroded its other power status, and set her up for all manner of decline, including prestige. Their assets always exceed their liabilities. But those assets are not always in the ‘’convertible form’’ which can immediately be used in the short-term to pay daily bills and buy daily food, or be mortgaged in the long-term which money-lenders find safe enough to risk ---can you pay that monthly rate without default!? For instance: Congo with its 80 Million people, is, in the long-term, long historical term, the potential of Germany with an equivalent population but currently a stupendous GDP compared to Kongo. Kongo’s assets ---the doctors, engineers, scientists she will train and have operational in future, are indeed inexhaustible! Kongo’s mineral wealth, estimated at $5 trn, are indeed stupendous in potential. But do you want me to give you pictures of how emaciated, disease-ridden, illiterate the children of Kongo currently are? Or that only another state like China was ready to fund Kongo through a patch! --Private financial banks were ready to trade and speculate on Congo's debts, but not LOAN her money! In the here and now, all that inexhaustible wealth and potential, mean zero to the majority of the population in that country. And Walter Wriston knows there is no bank in business which uses the dreams of the far, far future as collateral! Amigo Jakaswanga, First an aside: Is it the spell-checker, or how come we have all theSE "Adam s Smiths"? I hate the spell checker ... it ignores the genuine misspelling and introduces its own. You said Indeed amigo. We are not in some amorphous and undefined use of the term. However lets appreciate this: this discussion occurs in the area of application of economics rather than in fundamentals of economics. We are in normative as opposed to positive economics. We all (in this thread as among Wriston and Smith) agree on the definition of the term. The debate therefore, as I see it, is whether a state is ever out of the ability to pay, and whether it should have to pay no matter what. The first part of that is what this thread states. The article cited by Podp brings in the second part through the question whether a sovereign should be let to file for bankruptcy. You continued to say: We are together, and I hope Fimbo is reading. And there is my view, that this is a policy question that is not to be resolved without knowing FOR whom it is being resolved. The question as to whether a state can go bankrupt would be open and shut "yes" if we just say that we are asking whether the state can reach the end of the road in its ability to pay. ... in that sense we would be exhibiting indifference with what the citizenship would have to endure to meet the state's debt obligations. We would then have to be sympathetic to the state, rather than rebuke it, for printing paper to pay debt ... for then the idea would be "we'll pay till we cannot." Printing paper to pay debt is just another way the state taxes its citizenry to pay debt.... in the inquiry as to whether a state can go bankrupt, therefore, I presume we are critiquing debt appetites that threaten to enslave the people ... otherwise as long as a state has healthy people, it has means to pay ... yes, I differ with you on the argument that means don't count ... they do amigo! Long time ago, when Congo was a tranquil and systematic country (the days when it was presumed to be on the uptake toward a developed economic status), a lender would have extended lots of debt without a second thought - all else not counting, there is all that wealth in the ground that would have been assumed to count toward the country's ability to pay ... it was not converted into currency alright, but there was no reason to think that it could not be. Now the country has shown inability to master control of that wealth and be able to use it toward settling debts - so a lender would have to discount the under-the-surface wealth in evaluating the country's ability to pay. But that is not at all to say that lenders don't look at a borrower's wealth that is not in form available for current transaction. .. that would be an accounting view of bankruptcy as opposed to the economics one. The lender may actually not worry at all, if it is assured that the citizenry of the borrowing country is content with the paper economy that Fimbo seemed to believe in. That indeed bears support to the idea that states don't run bankrupt ... a hand to Fimbo ... for they have the human resource to keep paying. That is the argument that experts for the lender would argue ... experts for the citizenry would argue that people should not be viewed as expendable resources, and thus lenders have a responsibility in evaluating the borrowers projects so as not to finance blood-sucking projects, and when they do finance such projects, then the citizenry should have the right to declare bankruptcy. You will accuse me of broadening the discussion beyond what was apparent in the title. .. guilty. But in mitigation I must say that there are complex concerns that don't come through in the title alone. When we meet an article like that posted by PODP, we have to ask ourselves whether the topic is as one-sided as we may make of it from our individual perspectives. I took to that question and decided that even Fimbo was correct, but only from the perspective he addressed the issue. It is perspectives that are playing about.
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 5, 2014 21:41:34 GMT 3
Amigo Jakaswanga, First an aside: Is it the spell-checker, or how come we have all theSE "Adam s Smiths"? I hate the spell checker ... it ignores the genuine misspelling and introduces its own. ......... You will accuse me of broadening the discussion beyond what was apparent in the title. .. guilty. But in mitigation I must say that there are complex concerns that don't come through in the title alone. When we meet an article like that posted by PODP, we have to ask ourselves whether the topic is as one-sided as we may make of it from our individual perspectives. I took to that question and decided that even Fimbo was correct, but only from the perspective he addressed the issue. It is perspectives that are playing about. Yo, Man-K, AdamS SmithS! Ehehe! Adminstrator O-O gave us a spell check/corrector which does not offer us options like the old ‘analogue’ one! You know the politics of British contra US spellings: like emphasiZe vs emphasiSe! But well, O-O is a well-known digital tyrant with no ear to hapless pleas from hurting Jukwaa mortals like you and I! ---damn him amigo, damn him! I tell you the man has a morbid fascination with the guillotine, which he rattles with the fondness of a cassanova for his reliable tool of trade! ---Amigo I already have more than one for the road! That was the aside. No, of course I would be the last to accuse you of broadening the discussion. If you check, we are now on page six, and that should mean, if we are consistent and methodological, we have already done the basics, so the discussion need expand to explore other implications. even in that case of an open and shut yes for an answer, real trouble then starts. For we know the state is not liquidated like a company in recievership! So what happens next? I think this is when, as economists still scratch their heads, elites implode, states collapse, and new republics are declared ---some countries like France are currently on the Fifth republic! I do not know at which number Nigeria is, but the idea is, this new republic, usually revolutionary, gets a new start, rejecting all past debts as forms of servitude. ---That is why Adolf Hitler and co blew up the treaty of Versailles with its to the bones reparations regime. That is why Fidel Castro showed the American banks who owned Batista’s Cuba the middle finger, and the feud lasts to this day. That is why the Vietecong, on taking over South Vietnam, refused to take over the debts owed to the USA! There are certain levels of debt which is obvious servitude forever, and the only way of getting out of the fix is to refuse to pay. But that takes the mental calibre and emotional aptitude of revolutionaries. Total bankruptcy, can be a nation’s ticket to rebirth! If we were the comfortable ruling class blinded by own sense of invincibility, we would ‘’exhibit indifference with what the citizens would have to endure to meet the debt obligations!’’ But, amigo, we are lucky to have a sense of history. We know, form history, that an elite that drives its country aground, can be exterminated. So we know, that there is a certain extraction level that, regardless of the availability of the means, will exacerbate civil strife, and can lead to a conscious choice of default, and a new order. This I would have presumed is outside the scope of Detroit’s bankruptcy which we were using as a test-tube case to lead us on! ---Bu now that you broadened the discussion… well, let us run wild then! ---wilder than Oloo and his guillotine! Hahaha! Amigo this is a correct assertion. I might add, that this act of faith in the future, captured in this your sentence ( it was not converted to currency alright, but there was no reason to think that it could not be), is the same positivism which keeps the dollar afloat. Even under severed depression and run-way printing press action by the FED, we still believe the USA has the potential to LATER redeem all her debts. And her current near bankruptcy does not affect her credit ratings! A kind of amerian exceptionalism too, for, if it were another country printing money like that, the value of her currency would now be sunk! I find this last part an intriguing insight. I really is resolved to go give it a long lot of thoughts. Thanx amigo. Your observation in the middle is very apt: China is lending massively to these bad regimes, because she has found a way of converting those wealth deemed unreachable by others! China is simply ready to take more risks, and there is saying about those who own the world as those who take the greatest risks. That would be a very careless lender. Debt politics is the kind of thing civil wars erupt about! Citizens usually do even if these right is not guaranteed anywhere. History is full of the corpses of thieving elites who treated the people as expendible’s, footing up the bill for blood-sucking projects as you put it. Mank, I believe there is a theory of labour which says its wealth-creating potential is limitless, when its skills are continually upgraded [productivity ever increased]. –That should mean there can be no such thing as bankruptcy, merely temporary mismanagement! Let me seal my lips on that positive note for the moment! --- Fimbo! That is a guy who has been in the staff of Ben Bernanke!
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Post by mank on Mar 6, 2014 8:58:11 GMT 3
Amigo, I am at a loss. For the second time in as many days I have lost long responses ... thanks to my new and otherwise exciting toy (Surface Pro 2). Talk of stimulated minds ... yours is on a roll ... I was equally as moved but I will have to give this a try another day.
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 12, 2014 23:25:25 GMT 3
Amigo, I am at a loss. For the second time in as many days I have lost long responses ... thanks to my new and otherwise exciting toy (Surface Pro 2). Talk of stimulated minds ... yours is on a roll ... I was equally as moved but I will have to give this a try another day. So, Mank, can a country like Kenya go Bankrupt, you still ask? There must be some statistics or data we are not seeing. The heat in Mr. Kenyatta's take it or leave it warning to parastatal chiefs on the mandatory pay cuts, seems to me to based on a visible bottom to the pot. Here are some clues in the DN. mobile.nation.co.ke/news/-/1950946/2238680/-/format/xhtml/-/xg2358z/-/index.htmlMank Omera! I wanted to file this under the thread Rotich missing in action![ jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/8472/why-richard-rotich-missing-action ] then I read Rotich re-producing you 3 years later: PROLIFERATION OF INSTITUTIONS CREATED BY THE NEW CONSTITUTION! Your caution of double-decker layers of years ago. ---Madha fwackas should not even be running a roadside kiosk! if they do not have a model which could predict this eventuality the moment they read the draft of the constitution. And all these CBA's the treasury has been overseeing!? where did they think they would get the money from? not to mention the special case of our Mpigs. Yeah, in waste, money eventually runs out, and even a stellar constitution is then worth sh!t. But the ship is sinking slowly, and there is time to save her! ---But do we have men capable enough to!? willed enough to?
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Post by mank on Mar 13, 2014 1:43:28 GMT 3
Amigo, I am at a loss. For the second time in as many days I have lost long responses ... thanks to my new and otherwise exciting toy (Surface Pro 2). Talk of stimulated minds ... yours is on a roll ... I was equally as moved but I will have to give this a try another day. So, Mank, can a country like Kenya go Bankrupt, you still ask? .......... Amigo, I have been wondering what Mũtongoria is trying to tell us with taking gratuitous pay cuts and advocating for the same among his fellow looters. First, it seemed like he could have "seen the light" ... the kind of things people see and start speaking in tongues - that could be a reason enough to take a gratuitous cut, but campaigning for a similar but a forced cut of the manna for the rest of the pack is simply suicidal. There must be a grander message in such volunteerism. Now the cat is out of the bag. Mr. President in his excellency is reading the signs and panicking. Indeed I predicted the economic quagmire that he seems to be recognizing, but I could not have imagined it being that significant so quickly. But it has not been the explosion of institutions alone bringing us down, but the accelerated rate of harvesting where they did not sow. And the storm is gathering. Keep a tab on this: The rate by which that grows by next year should be of interest. And unless things change in a big way (I have little expectation), that rate will only be geometric. Instead of acting like a charitable savior with little impact the guy can just say it in public that we are like sheep headed for slaughter. That things have to change, and some of those things are that we have to cut back our political representation, and require real work from the the representation we settle on. He could also call upon experts to device bureaucratic procedures of civil service that automate disciplinary actions so invincibility is removed from practice. When he complains that corruption is most predominant in his office but proceeds to show that he has no practical solution, he is only giving corruption more power.
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Post by podp on Mar 13, 2014 19:44:53 GMT 3
Mr Kenyatta accepted the planned use of private money and debt to build the infrastructure and recover the same from user fees, setting the stage for possible introduction of new rules that ring-fence such operators from competition. “The consortium is expected to recover its investments by charging user fees on the services they will provide at agreed tariffs,” a memorandum of issues discussed during the 2 p.m. meeting says. Mr Kenyatta’s chief of staff and head of public service Joseph Kinyua has been tasked to form a team of Treasury and Lapsset officials that will help the investors begin works under a public-private partnership (PPP) arrangement whose details have yet to be discussed. The Kinyua-led team and the consortium of investors have two weeks to come up with a list of what is needed for the successful implementation of the plan. The Sunday meeting followed two earlier presentations to the Treasury and the Office of the President on January 20 and 23 respectively. Mr Thuo is a seasoned deal-maker who works as a partner with Viva Africa — a tax consultancy — while Mr Mukuha is a lawyer with one of Nairobi’s top law firms Daly & Figgis. It was not clear how State House identified the team of investors who are seeking exclusive permits to undertake the Lapsset projects —putting the government on a path that effectively removes competitive bidding for the projects and ring-fencing the business for the investors to recoup their money.www.businessdailyafrica.com/Uhuru-backs-dealmakers-to-run-Sh280bn-Lamu-projects/-/539546/2241646/-/nbdd79/-/index.htmlwith its extraordinary reserves and a PORK ready to promise to meet lenders/investors conditions, Kenya is an investor's dream. but that is to ignore the only thing that matters. there has been -and there is still is- one single major obstacle wiping out all prospects: corruption of the Jubilant team in power. any attempt at strict budgetary control comes up against a major obstacle: the presidency! any monitoring of the presidency's financial transactions proves impossible. in that office, no difference is made between state expenses and personal requirements. why was and is still ICC being denied PORKs account details? they would reveal details of embezzled funds, confirming the existence of a bevy of presidential accounts in foreign banks, explaining methods used to take cuts on KRA collections, procurement deals etc. and listing presidential properties in Kenya, rest of Africa, Britain, rest of Europe, USA and now the East. the top civil servants, politicians and journalists on PORK's payroll. we need to end the cony arrangement in which Kenyans know that the international financiers know, and the financiers know that the Kenyans know that they know, but everyone can carry on playing the game of credits, conditions, targets and stand by arrangements with apparent innocence.
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Post by mank on May 13, 2014 8:45:38 GMT 3
Amigo, I am at a loss. For the second time in as many days I have lost long responses ... thanks to my new and otherwise exciting toy (Surface Pro 2). Talk of stimulated minds ... yours is on a roll ... I was equally as moved but I will have to give this a try another day. So, Mank, can a country like Kenya go Bankrupt, you still ask? There must be some statistics or data we are not seeing. The heat in Mr. Kenyatta's take it or leave it warning to parastatal chiefs on the mandatory pay cuts, seems to me to based on a visible bottom to the pot. Here are some clues in the DN. mobile.nation.co.ke/news/-/1950946/2238680/-/format/xhtml/-/xg2358z/-/index.htmlMank Omera! I wanted to file this under the thread Rotich missing in action![ jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/8472/why-richard-rotich-missing-action ] then I read Rotich re-producing you 3 years later: PROLIFERATION OF INSTITUTIONS CREATED BY THE NEW CONSTITUTION! Your caution of double-decker layers of years ago. ---Madha fwackas should not even be running a roadside kiosk! if they do not have a model which could predict this eventuality the moment they read the draft of the constitution. And all these CBA's the treasury has been overseeing!? where did they think they would get the money from? not to mention the special case of our Mpigs. Yeah, in waste, money eventually runs out, and even a stellar constitution is then worth sh!t. But the ship is sinking slowly, and there is time to save her! ---But do we have men capable enough to!? willed enough to? There is some hope, amigo! Don't give up on Fimbonomics. Keep a tub on this one; when we are a functioning EA Community, lets gang together and bulldoze the shilling into the region's currency. After all, which else? Just like that, Fimbonomics becomes a new source of wealth. We can do quite a bit of madhupaper currency before our good friends hollor. Oh, sorry ... what imagination! That's totally imagined. It can never happen anywhere.
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Post by jakaswanga on May 13, 2014 22:48:19 GMT 3
There is some hope, amigo! Don't give up on Fimbonomics. Keep a tub on this one; when we are a functioning EA Community, lets gang together and bulldoze the shilling into the region's currency. After all, which else? Just like that, Fimbonomics becomes a new source of wealth. We can do quite a bit of madhupaper currency before our good friends hollor. Oh, sorry ... what imagination! That's totally imagined. It can never happen anywhere. Aiyayayaya Amigo! Fimbonomics you say! And you used the phrase ‘ ’bulldoze the shilling into the EAC currency!’’I have respect for Fimbonomics, and fear ! coz I think I see where he is coming from. This is the Chicago School, also known in Europe as the Al-Capone doctrine. The USA has bulldozed the whole World Financial System into the dollar standard, where the dollar is the official world currency. Try getting out of it and end up like Saddam Hussein, Moamar Gadaffi, and now Putin. –That is the Chicago regime enforcing law, the Maffia way. So long we [the trading world] all use the dollar, the FED can run its printing press wild it likes and keep up the act of the dollar value stable. But the moment we would have choice and stop, of course the dollar becomes just like any other currency which, normally, at certain amount of supply in the market, becomes Madhupaper toilet paper. Like the pyramid schemes breaks eventually. But if the whole world MUST participate coz Al Capone will otherwise come calling with a baseball skull-crusher!? Then it is all El Dorado for Chicago! Europe, which has had its economies utterly ruined twice within 50 years in world wars, and known the ravages of hyperinflation and multiple currency collapses, tends to be very conservative if not phobic of relentless money growth regimes. this is the Austria school, or the banned NAZI School as you Gringos disparagingly dismiss... And now as the EU gears toward the proposed Banking Union, there is a battle royal for the future of EU monetary policy, featuring the German Central Bank [ Austria relic] versus the ECB [ Chicago clone]. As a matter of fact, Chair Draghi of ECB is already printing Euros like your Bernanke did in his Quantitative Easings which became a series! Fimbo rules!Good if one is at the top, a horror when one is under the custody of Al Capone’s regime! The rate at which we are servicing our old debts, and then the new burdens we accrue from the Chinese!? I think Rotich is out of meat on the bone! Guy could just be looking up to Fimbo! What else would he do? Up tax and print money! Impoverish the mass to extract more! No rocket science I am afraid!
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Post by mank on May 15, 2014 7:34:14 GMT 3
There is some hope, amigo! Don't give up on Fimbonomics. Keep a tub on this one; when we are a functioning EA Community, lets gang together and bulldoze the shilling into the region's currency. After all, which else? Just like that, Fimbonomics becomes a new source of wealth. We can do quite a bit of madhupaper currency before our good friends hollor. Oh, sorry ... what imagination! That's totally imagined. It can never happen anywhere. Aiyayayaya Amigo! Fimbonomics you say! And you used the phrase ‘ ’bulldoze the shilling into the EAC currency!’’I have respect for Fimbonomics, and fear ! coz I think I see where he is coming from. This is the Chicago School, also known in Europe as the Al-Capone doctrine. The USA has bulldozed the whole World Financial System into the dollar standard, where the dollar is the official world currency. Try getting out of it and end up like Saddam Hussein, Moamar Gadaffi, and now Putin. –That is the Chicago regime enforcing law, the Maffia way. So long we [the trading world] all use the dollar, the FED can run its printing press wild it likes and keep up the act of the dollar value stable. But the moment we would have choice and stop, of course the dollar becomes just like any other currency which, normally, at certain amount of supply in the market, becomes Madhupaper toilet paper. Like the pyramid schemes breaks eventually. But if the whole world MUST participate coz Al Capone will otherwise come calling with a baseball skull-crusher!? Then it is all El Dorado for Chicago! Europe, which has had its economies utterly ruined twice within 50 years in world wars, and known the ravages of hyperinflation and multiple currency collapses, tends to be very conservative if not phobic of relentless money growth regimes. this is the Austria school, or the banned NAZI School as you Gringos disparagingly dismiss... And now as the EU gears toward the proposed Banking Union, there is a battle royal for the future of EU monetary policy, featuring the German Central Bank [ Austria relic] versus the ECB [ Chicago clone]. As a matter of fact, Chair Draghi of ECB is already printing Euros like your Bernanke did in his Quantitative Easings which became a series! Fimbo rules!Good if one is at the top, a horror when one is under the custody of Al Capone’s regime! The rate at which we are servicing our old debts, and then the new burdens we accrue from the Chinese!? I think Rotich is out of meat on the bone! Guy could just be looking up to Fimbo! What else would he do? Up tax and print money! Impoverish the mass to extract more! No rocket science I am afraid! Bulls eye! But if I am asked, I will stick with my first position .... that I was just imagining things. Meanwhile the Chinese are buying gold and gold miners as if they hate the Yuan or Renminbi. They are most likely tired of being someone else's gold mine, and are cooking some revolt. This is not some kind of "sit and watch" movie I am dreaming about, amigo. It is one to which all are actors, not by choice ... but for being committed by the Rotiches of the world ... not to act the glamorous parts, but mostly to be blown off by tankers and the Chuck Norrises of the damnation movie .. a great movie needs lots of those expendables. Its a terrible dream I have ... every time I am awake. Countries can't go bankrupt. Or can they?
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Post by jakaswanga on Dec 13, 2014 0:08:28 GMT 3
Mank: Rotich is a ''comfort zone'' Debt junkie? Rotich’s Sh2.5trn debt planwww.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1437116/-/9dig6m/-/index.html But after that rebase, the re-calculation that pimped up the size of our GDP, I guess our debt to GDP ratio has become very healthy, and created more credit room for us!? No? These mathematical tricks of yours amigo {you economists/monetarists!) Like the European Central Bank the other day. They decided they needed a healthier bank statement --reserves to bail even Italy out. What did they do? They just added many zeros to the ECB bank balance! I guess I just have to fall along and believe in these miracles! --money doublers of Onitsha market by Chinua Achebe!
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