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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 28, 2013 19:35:51 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, How many Colors were on Theatre? RDU/AP, GSU H/Q Co, City-wide Flying Squad, Special Crimes Unit, GD/Blues from Westlands areas, Kenya Police Reserves Muhindis, Langata 7th, Embakasi 50th Rotaries, KAF; specialist elements the Ruiri GSU/Recce in near-full-Company, and the Gigil 20th. About a dozen unarmed BATUK fellas on rotation and others Foreign Uniforms with AMISOM on furlow; finally yours-truly - 30th with both the 'wanamaji' na pia 'wale wengine". Thrown in Marines from their Embassy Security, Mossad, G2/G3 of the IDF, UPDF in Observer mode, hell, everyone was there with a radio Comm set!! How could anyone in their right minds not have sorted out Comms in such a mix of brutal and angry armed-to-the-teeth killers? Dont believe media stories, bro This is info from someone inside what you call 'the confused side'. Every story has its two sides...you just have to sift out the wheat from the chaff and somewhere therein will be an anser! Good caution about our media which I always accept to mind ---you never know, may be I once worked in one of them and I know how much lies go around in that world!  But like the old science of Kremlinology, or even better, pathology, one can use these reports like a forensic uses scattered and broken bones to reconstruct a skeleton, and finally identify the body in full! I accept the two or more sides to get the total picture. Very scientific and objective. But some facts are pretty straight forward. The KDF disobeyed the president and would not take orders from the POLICE who, it had been bureaucratically agreed, were in charge of the operation. Yes, actually this was a routine if not regular internal operation, --foiling a terrorist act is special police brief. There is even a special police squad for it ---also schooled in NEGOTIATIONS in a hostage situation! That is such a delicate skill, your KDF commandos wouldn't know what it exists, leave alone what it is. ---Does Mr. Nice the Tanzanian sing 'homophobic slurILIA WOTE, or homophobic sluria wote?' In any case KILL THEM ALL is what commandos do best! But if the police were in command and the KDF refused their orders, you think the police then turned around and obeyed KDF orders? But I admit Kimaiyo does not engender confidence even in normal times, let alone a crisis this caliber (this is the moron who annexed Jogoo House and locked other government employees out the other day]. www.standardmedia.co.ke/ktn/video/watch/2000070230/-eye-on-interior-cabinet-secretary-joseph-ole-lenkuAnyway, imagine the horror of these investigators when they saw their boss Ole Lenku taken hostage by Karangi. ---police investigators had by then aleady next to confirmed the presence of a WOMAN amongst the attackers, and informed Ole Lenku. Then [2:00] there he was publicly rectracting on the behest of General Karangi, a hippopotomus mound of lazy beef in combat fatigues cutting the perfect picture of a clown. Then see 2:50. So, where did the chief of staff get his information that there were no women? and why was Ole lenku sufficiently intimidated to ignore his own police briefs? Any logical answers? NB: yes, all colours of the world were apparently flying in the melee and that can go some way to explain friendly fire. But a commanding officer of the Recce will have communications, and the army knowing he is frontline operator, would have to locate him. That is ABC in any military melee. LOCATE THE COMMANDING OFFICER. IS HE DEAD OR ALIVE? WHO IS NEXT IN COMMAND? Form special squad to RETRIEVE THE BODY. A commanding officer fallen in the field is honoured [secured! is the word] immediately, even in the thick of death! It is a blood rule in the game of death. Woe and eternal shame be upon an army that lets the enemy strip their commanding officer and display his rank as trophy! Woe and eternal shame be upon the vermin that will seek to belittle the man who had already achieved tactical advantage over the enemy before he was friendly fired!I hail the slain commanding officer of the Recce as the first national hero of the forces!
Join me --O country men and women! All hail this true patriot whose name none dare release! |
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Post by podp on Sept 28, 2013 20:47:15 GMT 3
Reading what the likes of Podp and company write and the questions they ask, one wonders what they will do with the answers if they were ever given the answers. The is of course the Right to Know and the Need to Know which would provide a quick answer to all these questions. Our American friend Podpis happy to point out our disorganisation to a point of prefering the 'arrangement' in Kigali courtesy of tall man Kagame. We are Kenyans, we are peculiar and sometimes need to be herded like goats. That is why even with traffic lights we still need traffic police to shoo us through roundabouts. Pulling the policemen from the roundabouts and putting them on the streets will not be the solution to preventing the next terrorist attack. Perhaps a good example of a functioning intelligence service as it is sold is in the US of A where Podp hails from. After the sad events of 9/11 you would not have expected a terrorist attack, but it happened this year at the Boston Marathon. But that does not mean that the US intelligence services have not stopped many more attacks before they happened. In all those instances, no news of what has been stopped is shared in the media and I am certain the inquiry into Boston will not get you all the answers!There is a great ignorance on the workings of the security services since the promulgation of the new constitution and the enabling laws they are supposed to operate from. The government has invested considerably in its intelligence gathering and works very closely with its international friends especially in the war on terror. As I mentioned the limitations of the NIS (not NSIS)working with an old law that completely emasculates its ability to be a functional Intelligence Service and with the stalled NIS Bill in parliament because some human rights activists think that the service could be used for political services means that the service is nothing more that a group of reporting clerks who can only point at X as being a possible terrorist and hope the police follow up on the intel given to them on X. The NIS bill if passed as it is allows for the agents of the service to hold a person for a maximum of 6 hours in investigation and if needed for longer, then the person must be handed over to a police station. It also allows for the agency to apply for a high court arrest warrant for anyone they are seeking for their operations. So yes Gichangi had the intelligence and passed it on to the relevant consumers of the report. How the report is dealt with is another thing. Without a specific date or specific target but a range of dates and several targets the work for the police is cut out for they have to balance out on what is deemed the highest value target and work on it. It is possible they got it all wrong on Westgate, but that does not point at failure of a system as is being alleged. The biggest danger to investigating this attack comes from the likes of Njakip whose only fetish is the ICC and the argument that the intelligence guys spend their time looking for ICC witnesses! The only reason for such a fetish is the political drive to push the argument to achieve a certain purpose! I will not even go to the ridiculous suggestion that the attack was government planned to get some 10 million dollars from the US. Guys, Kenyans died and others were wounded. Let us balance our quest to know between the Right and the Need to know as suggested!last red high light ok here I have to admit there is a distinction between the Right and the Need to know, so like the Kenyan press will rely on official releases of information. 1st red high light that comparison of Kenyans with goats does not fly. probably the major ethnic communities like Kikuyu, Luo, Kamba, Kisii may fit this bill when it comes to voting mainly their ethnic chiefs. even then I would hesitate to say they are headed because some of the most virulent opposers of the ethnic chiefs do come from the same ethnic groups. 2nd red high light here I will invite you to a long paste job.....here we go According to Treverton, a puzzle is a problem that can be solved if you have more information (or the right information). On the other hand, more information doesn’t help with a mystery, which is characterised by high levels of uncertainty, and the need for judgement. Here’s Gladwell: The national-security expert Gregory Treverton has famously made a distinction between puzzles and mysteries. Osama bin Laden’s whereabouts are a puzzle. We can’t find him because we don’t have enough information. The key to the puzzle will probably come from someone close to bin Laden, and until we can find that source bin Laden will remain at large. The problem of what would happen in Iraq after the toppling of Saddam Hussein was, by contrast, a mystery. It wasn’t a question that had a simple, factual answer. Mysteries require judgments and the assessment of uncertainty, and the hard part is not that we have too little information but that we have too much. The C.I.A. had a position on what a post-invasion Iraq would look like, and so did the Pentagon and the State Department and Colin Powell and Dick Cheney and any number of political scientists and journalists and think-tank fellows. For that matter, so did every cabdriver in Baghdad. The distinction is not trivial… If things go wrong with a puzzle, identifying the culprit is easy: it’s the person who withheld information. Mysteries, though, are a lot murkier: sometimes the information we’ve been given is inadequate, and sometimes we aren’t very smart about making sense of what we’ve been given, and sometimes the question itself cannot be answered. Puzzles come to satisfying conclusions. Mysteries often don’t. Puzzles are attractive because, as Gladwell points out, they come to clean conclusions. Ironically, by these definitions, all of the Agatha Christie books are puzzles, not mysteries – they can always be solved if you just pay attention to the right information, which is all there for you. We are strongly drawn to puzzles because of how clear-cut they are. Unfortunately, many of the big problems that we face are not puzzles, but rather mysteries. Mysteries are messy, and the methods that solve puzzles don’t work for mysteries, and they might actually make them worse. timkastelle.org/blog/2012/05/are-you-solving-a-puzzle-or-a-mystery/to me with all due respect, solving the matter of say who burnt the Kiamba Church full of people from the Kikuyu ethnic group, or who burnt the houses in Naivasha full of Luo families....and first forward who is responsible for the terrorist attacks the latest being at Westgate and Wajir are puzzles and can be solved. what are mysteries is why Odinga elder let Kenyatta rule in the 60s till he died and why now we have a Kenyatta ruling again. it is not a mystery the questions are directed at. it is the puzzle of who killed the Kiamba, Naivasha and now the Westgate and Wajir human beings. this can surely be solved |
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Post by b6k on Sept 29, 2013 15:52:07 GMT 3
Kathure, the pictures above seem to belie your earlier post by a doctor claiming victims were tortured. Unless the victims in the photos were from the initial assault on the Westgate Mall and those tortured were the few held by the terrorists for the remainder of the siege...
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Post by b6k on Sept 29, 2013 16:06:44 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, I don't see anything wrong in admitting we had some help. From day one the presence of Israeli, British & American security personnel on the ground was very clear. They helped rescue quite a number of hostages as was emphasized by the survivor interviewed by Lilian Muli last night (she was rescued by Brits) , The embarrassment lay elsewhere: see DN below. The details of the cock-ups by the now heroic KDF are just beginning to filter in. The implications have not yet hit the consciousness of a nation still steeped in shock, grief and denial. These KDF guys shot the commanding officer of Recce Squad who had already secured command and control of viNtage points like the rooF-parking, before the KDF arrived. The Recce had a game plan already, and were executing it pin-point commando. Enter the KDF [ without even a map of the building!  ] The Israelis were not going to jump in, with a looming firefight between two Kenyan elite units!Sinister Gen. Karangi, who not only ignored the earlier intelligence of an impending attack, has his boys execute by O God friendly fire  , the real hero of the day, the officer commanding the Recce Squad. [Name withheld?] www.nation.co.ke/news/Blame-game-over-Westgate-attack/-/1056/2009266/-/9lkn7rz/-/index.html Now, b6k, read the following extract, and think it out, holding in mind the DN is being careful with what it says. The Recce did not take kindly to the execution of their commander. That was when the Israeli tactical liaison officer recognised immediately the worst nightmare in a combat situation: civil war. And waited. That word COMPLICATED the situation. I doubt we really want to know what it hides! Remember the Israeli commander, unlike Kenyan commanders, must ANSWER why he could not end the siege in 90 minutes like Yonni Netanyahu in Entebbe. So after 120 minutes in Nairobi, the truth was out ---in foreign capitals! We the Kenyans trusting the information flow from our leaders and our puppet media were still ululating our army firing anti-tank missiles at a dozen cowards in a confined space! Here is something the Kenyan Press is not saying, but policemen on the scene will tell you. The KDF tried to use the police as cannon fodder. The police refused. You will have noticed some of our cops were not in battle gear ---bullet proof vests, steel helmets and the rest. There were many people involved. So the stories will come out, slowly but surely! Or our souls will rot. That is why humans are a confessing being, --to avoid the total rot of their souls! , indeed the execution of your commander can be like having cold water poured on you enough to take the fight out of you. Time will tell about what actually happened on the scene & I would actually stand by for reports in the foreign media once their forensic experts comb through the evidence. NB the GSU does a lot of its training for their high end units in Israel. Even if our authorities attempt a coverup, the POLIZEI's findings (amongst others) will be made public at least in Germany. Keep an eye on German periodicals... The article also talks about the armed civilians who were the first responders to the the terror attack. Other than Abdul Haji (Yusuf Haji's son) who joined others to take on the terrorists as he tried to save his brother, little had been said about these unsong heros... |
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Post by b6k on Sept 29, 2013 16:16:09 GMT 3
B6K, The embarrassment lay elsewhere: see DN below. The details of the cock-ups by the now heroic KDF are just beginning to filter in. The implications have not yet hit the consciousness of a nation still steeped in shock, grief and denial. These KDF guys shot the commanding officer of Recce Squad who had already secured command and control of viNtage points like the rooF-parking, before the KDF arrived. The Recce had a game plan already, and were executing it pin-point commando. Enter the KDF [ without even a map of the building! ]... How i wish you were making that up amigo! I read it to be a sign of the rust accumulated over years as GSU's sense of war remained cracking the little heads of varsity students and civilians caught in street demonstrations. This reminds me a discussion we had here sometimes back, as to whether Kenya was ready to take Uganda on in a battle. There were those who believed that Uganda was no match for Kenya militarily. What this story seems to support though is that Kenya would get whooped pretty severely by Uganda, the latter being more tuned to real war. KDF's performance in Somalia over the last two years compared to the UDF's performance in the same theater of war in over 5 years seems to belie taht comment. Not to mention their loss of new military choppers at Mount Kenya while not even under fire!... |
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Post by kamalet on Sept 30, 2013 8:50:16 GMT 3
I think there are people who are relying on the Kenyan media for their information and taking in all they say as gospel truth - and then the reporting becomes the basis of people's theories and conclusions about the Westgate tragedy.
For instance, there is this story about a tunnel coming out of Westgate which the terrorists used to escape. The story originated from the western media and taken upon by our local media. No one has been inside that tunnel and emerged into Westgate. It is also means that Kenyans security and even locals did not know about the tunnel until they were alerted by the Daily Mail....so yes the forces surrounded the whole building and missed out the tunnel!!
So there was looting at the mall. The Nation in its reporting has squarely laid the blame on the military - allegedly ordered everyone including the police to leave the building hence started looting the shops. Now this is a plausible story, only that one wonders how someone under fire from terrorists firing 50 calibre bullets actually has time to loot jewellery and cash tills and at the same time fend for themselves. There are many possibilities of the looting and once again the CCTV footage available will be used to catch the culprits.
In operations involving the military and the police, the tendency is for police to want the military move out and leave them to undertake their policing work. I know this was the same problem in 1982 after the military took to long to relinquish Nairobi and some other cities to the Police following the Coup Attempt of August 1. So feeding the media with all sorts of stories to allow them back is a plausible reason. But Kenyans need to know that part of the terrorism problem in Kenya is squarely on the doorstep of the Police. The number of terrorists who have bribed their way in and out of Kenya is high. Stories of captured terrorists finding their way out of police stations or Somalis who quickly got Kenyan IDs and citizenship for a million or two to enable them launder the proceeds of piracy is not news.
I think we are all losing focus on the key lessons of Westgate through concentration of non important things. I would have thought the debate in the media and a forum like Jukwaa would be on how to ensure we minimise such incidences. I am looking at debates on how the Eastleigh Problem can be managed without it becoming a human rights issue where the aliens who have terrorist inclinations can be arrested and taken out of Kenya. The Mosque Imams known for recruitment of our youths being smoked out. Addressing the problem that leads Kenyan youths to terror linked groups. That I think is the challenge we face rather than whether the military brought down westgate mall or looted it.
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Post by tatyen on Sept 30, 2013 9:48:27 GMT 3
The sequence of events leading up to and following the heinous terrorist attack at Westgate, leave a lot of questions to be answered. I was particularly struck a a story doing the rounds in the Kenyan media, that a pregnant police woman had been forewarned to stay away from Westgate on the day of the attack, by her brother who was reportedly an employee of the National Intelligence Service. IF this is indeed true, it begs the question as to why the Commander In Chief's own family were seemingly not privy to this information. Indeed Uhuru Kenyatta's own Son and Sister amongst other relatives narrowly escaped with their lives, he even lost a nephew in the attack. Consider this against the backdrop of a leaked NIS memo detailing the intelligence it had 'ostensibly' passed on the the relevant security chief and you begin to question what exactly is going on within the Kenyan government. One can infer that Francis Kimemia, who it emerges has been chairing most of the Security Intelligence briefings, may have been withholding certain kinds of information from 'Kamwana'.
It is also pertinent to note that right from the very onset of the attack, the flow or lack thereof of information pertaining to the attackers and their victims as well as the operational details of the Kenyan security forces response to the attack, hint a major cover up within a section of the government for reasons that are not exactly clear to me at this point. You will remember that after the 1998 bombing of the US embassy in Nairobi, details emerged very quickly and comprehensively about the planners and executors of the terror plot including detailed recreations of their entry and movement into the country as well as photograps of the alleged masterminds. After Westgate, all we have gotten is consistent stone waling, with senior government officials hiding behind the line that they cannot comment on on going investigations. But there are lingering gaps in the narrative that simply cannot be wished away.
Where are the terrorists or their bodies?
why is the goverment so adamant that there were no hostages in the building when Red Cross ( perhaps the most credible organization in kenya) insists that up to 70 people are still missing?
How is Ole lenku so sure that they had 'rescued' all the hostages, while at the same time admitting that the KDF soldiers were unable to neutralize all the militants?
How long did the siege really last, and how was the place looted? Is is possible the the 'siege' was extended long after the terrorists had been contained in order to allow security forces to loot businesses and banks? If this turns out to be true, it would be in extremely poor taste to contemplate that at a time when kenyan citizens slaughtered by terrorists were still lying in the mall, the kenyan security apparatus prioritized looting over the retrieval of the bodies of these unfortunate kenyans before a section of the mall collapsed.
The kenyan government owes its citizens comprehensive answers to these and many more questions, and i would expect that it should do so of its own volition and not the prompting of an increasingly skeptical and enraged population. There are just too many angles to 'official version' of the 'truth' that simply do not add up, and the fact that there is a concerted effort to manage the truth makes me wonder if in fact the innocent who lost their lives in this senseless violence were nothing but pawns in a bigger political chess game.
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Post by b6k on Oct 3, 2013 1:24:18 GMT 3
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Post by podp on Oct 3, 2013 18:33:26 GMT 3
The sequence of events leading up to and following the heinous terrorist attack at Westgate, leave a lot of questions to be answered. I was particularly struck a a story doing the rounds in the Kenyan media, that a pregnant police woman had been forewarned to stay away from Westgate on the day of the attack, by her brother who was reportedly an employee of the National Intelligence Service. IF this is indeed true, it begs the question as to why the Commander In Chief's own family were seemingly not privy to this information. Indeed Uhuru Kenyatta's own Son and Sister amongst other relatives narrowly escaped with their lives, he even lost a nephew in the attack. Consider this against the backdrop of a leaked NIS memo detailing the intelligence it had 'ostensibly' passed on the the relevant security chief and you begin to question what exactly is going on within the Kenyan government. One can infer that Francis Kimemia, who it emerges has been chairing most of the Security Intelligence briefings, may have been withholding certain kinds of information from 'Kamwana'. It is also pertinent to note that right from the very onset of the attack, the flow or lack thereof of information pertaining to the attackers and their victims as well as the operational details of the Kenyan security forces response to the attack, hint a major cover up within a section of the government for reasons that are not exactly clear to me at this point. You will remember that after the 1998 bombing of the US embassy in Nairobi, details emerged very quickly and comprehensively about the planners and executors of the terror plot including detailed recreations of their entry and movement into the country as well as photograps of the alleged masterminds. After Westgate, all we have gotten is consistent stone waling, with senior government officials hiding behind the line that they cannot comment on on going investigations. But there are lingering gaps in the narrative that simply cannot be wished away. Where are the terrorists or their bodies? why is the goverment so adamant that there were no hostages in the building when Red Cross ( perhaps the most credible organization in kenya) insists that up to 70 people are still missing? How is Ole lenku so sure that they had 'rescued' all the hostages, while at the same time admitting that the KDF soldiers were unable to neutralize all the militants? How long did the siege really last, and how was the place looted? Is is possible the the 'siege' was extended long after the terrorists had been contained in order to allow security forces to loot businesses and banks? If this turns out to be true, it would be in extremely poor taste to contemplate that at a time when kenyan citizens slaughtered by terrorists were still lying in the mall, the kenyan security apparatus prioritized looting over the retrieval of the bodies of these unfortunate kenyans before a section of the mall collapsed. The kenyan government owes its citizens comprehensive answers to these and many more questions, and i would expect that it should do so of its own volition and not the prompting of an increasingly skeptical and enraged population. There are just too many angles to 'official version' of the 'truth' that simply do not add up, and the fact that there is a concerted effort to manage the truth makes me wonder if in fact the innocent who lost their lives in this senseless violence were nothing but pawns in a bigger political chess game. red high lights very pregnant questions that will not simply go away by invoking the Need and Right to know arguments. www.csg.org/knowledgecenter/docs/Brief1003RightToKnow.pdf |
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Oct 3, 2013 21:33:36 GMT 3
Kamalet:
I am curious. Since when did our BORN IN NAIROBI Kenyan Jukwaa member PODP become an "American Friend" ??!!!! Do you know something the rest of us don't? Fafanua tafadhali.Onyango Oloo
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 10, 2013 16:58:22 GMT 3
The Star, like other parts of the Kenyan media, should always be taken with some caution. With that in mind, one is still staggered to read the claim (allegedly by a person in the GSU) that KDF soldiers who died at the mall were not killed by terrorists. The claim is that they were killed by GSU seeking revenge for a lost comrade. www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-138924/westgate-operation-was-bungled-uhuruOne hopes that such claims will be thoroughly investigated.
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Post by b6k on Oct 11, 2013 15:47:59 GMT 3
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Post by jakaswanga on Oct 16, 2013 8:35:38 GMT 3
The Star, like other parts of the Kenyan media, should always be taken with some caution. With that in mind, one is still staggered to read the claim (allegedly by a person in the GSU) that KDF soldiers who died at the mall were not killed by terrorists. The claim is that they were killed by GSU seeking revenge for a lost comrade. www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-138924/westgate-operation-was-bungled-uhuruOne hopes that such claims will be thoroughly investigated. Otishotish, This has been a story better left forgotten. The state does not know what to do with it as we all officially sing the we are one hymn. But ex-officio, the truth is on the ground. There was a full-fledged fire-fight between the police units and the KDF. Friendly fire or not, the motivation was not love. It was a mini civil war. ---Government spokesmen as you know, have lost their tongues. Another thing coming out, is that the KDF units at Westgate were not the trumpeted elite commanndo special forces. It was a mixed bag, with some regulars on holiday from Somalia. They were not going to be taking orders from ' home office boys' in a combat situation. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Oct 16, 2013 8:43:58 GMT 3
B6K, The embarrassment lay elsewhere: see DN below. The details of the cock-ups by the now heroic KDF are just beginning to filter in. The implications have not yet hit the consciousness of a nation still steeped in shock, grief and denial. These KDF guys shot the commanding officer of Recce Squad who had already secured command and control of viNtage points like the rooF-parking, before the KDF arrived. The Recce had a game plan already, and were executing it pin-point commando. Enter the KDF [ without even a map of the building! ] The Israelis were not going to jump in, with a looming firefight between two Kenyan elite units!Sinister Gen. Karangi, who not only ignored the earlier intelligence of an impending attack, has his boys execute by O God friendly fire , the real hero of the day, the officer commanding the Recce Squad. [Name withheld?] www.nation.co.ke/news/Blame-game-over-Westgate-attack/-/1056/2009266/-/9lkn7rz/-/index.html Now, b6k, read the following extract, and think it out, holding in mind the DN is being careful with what it says. The Recce did not take kindly to the execution of their commander. That was when the Israeli tactical liaison officer recognised immediately the worst nightmare in a combat situation: civil war. And waited. That word COMPLICATED the situation. I doubt we really want to know what it hides! Remember the Israeli commander, unlike Kenyan commanders, must ANSWER why he could not end the siege in 90 minutes like Yonni Netanyahu in Entebbe. So after 120 minutes in Nairobi, the truth was out ---in foreign capitals! We the Kenyans trusting the information flow from our leaders and our puppet media were still ululating our army firing anti-tank missiles at a dozen cowards in a confined space! Here is something the Kenyan Press is not saying, but policemen on the scene will tell you. The KDF tried to use the police as cannon fodder. The police refused. You will have noticed some of our cops were not in battle gear ---bullet proof vests, steel helmets and the rest. There were many people involved. So the stories will come out, slowly but surely! Or our souls will rot. That is why humans are a confessing being, --to avoid the total rot of their souls! , indeed the execution of your commander can be like having cold water poured on you enough to take the fight out of you. Time will tell about what actually happened on the scene & I would actually stand by for reports in the foreign media once their forensic experts comb through the evidence. NB the GSU does a lot of its training for their high end units in Israel. Even if our authorities attempt a coverup, the POLIZEI's findings (amongst others) will be made public at least in Germany. Keep an eye on German periodicals...The article also talks about the armed civilians who were the first responders to the the terror attack. Other than Abdul Haji (Yusuf Haji's son) who joined others to take on the terrorists as he tried to save his brother, little had been said about these unsong heros... B6k, If you have had your ear to the ground. You would have gathered the POLIZEI were not granted full access to all of the scene of the crime, and they left in frustration --the report is in the nairobistar. The question who barred all these forensic experts from total access is interesting. My source tells me they were patriotic KDF who do not take orders from fancy KNOW-ALL WHITE foreigners. Relations broke down, and bossy foreigners, however needed, had to leave for their own safety. ---But yu never know if the polizei could find some smoking gun pointing at very terrible truths!  |
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Post by b6k on Oct 16, 2013 9:37:08 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, indeed the execution of your commander can be like having cold water poured on you enough to take the fight out of you. Time will tell about what actually happened on the scene & I would actually stand by for reports in the foreign media once their forensic experts comb through the evidence. NB the GSU does a lot of its training for their high end units in Israel. Even if our authorities attempt a coverup, the POLIZEI's findings (amongst others) will be made public at least in Germany. Keep an eye on German periodicals...The article also talks about the armed civilians who were the first responders to the the terror attack. Other than Abdul Haji (Yusuf Haji's son) who joined others to take on the terrorists as he tried to save his brother, little had been said about these unsong heros... B6k, If you have had your ear to the ground. You would have gathered the POLIZEI were not granted full access to all of the scene of the crime, and they left in frustration --the report is in the nairobistar. The question who barred all these forensic experts from total access is interesting. My source tells me they were patriotic KDF who do not take orders from fancy KNOW-ALL WHITE foreigners. Relations broke down, and bossy foreigners, however needed, had to leave for their own safety. ---But yu never know if the polizei could find some smoking gun pointing at very terrible truths! Sovereignty even in crime scenes? Oy vey! |
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Post by b6k on Dec 11, 2013 7:50:44 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, indeed the execution of your commander can be like having cold water poured on you enough to take the fight out of you. Time will tell about what actually happened on the scene & I would actually stand by for reports in the foreign media once their forensic experts comb through the evidence. NB the GSU does a lot of its training for their high end units in Israel. Even if our authorities attempt a coverup, the POLIZEI's findings (amongst others) will be made public at least in Germany. Keep an eye on German periodicals...The article also talks about the armed civilians who were the first responders to the the terror attack. Other than Abdul Haji (Yusuf Haji's son) who joined others to take on the terrorists as he tried to save his brother, little had been said about these unsong heros... B6k, If you have had your ear to the ground. You would have gathered the POLIZEI were not granted full access to all of the scene of the crime, and they left in frustration --the report is in the nairobistar. The question who barred all these forensic experts from total access is interesting. My source tells me they were patriotic KDF who do not take orders from fancy KNOW-ALL WHITE foreigners. Relations broke down, and bossy foreigners, however needed, had to leave for their own safety. ---But yu never know if the polizei could find some smoking gun pointing at very terrible truths! , it appears where the POLIZEI failed the NYPD managed to get in some investigations.As CNN likes to say, we can consider the NYPD report as reported by NBC as an "independently verified" source   Only four shooters at Kenya mall and they may have escaped alive, says NYPDBy Tom Winter NBC News "Only four men may have carried out the attack on a Kenyan mall that killed more than 60 civilians in September, and they probably escaped alive, according to an NYPD report made public Tuesday. The report debunked many of the assertions made by Kenyan authorities, who claimed that as many as 15 attackers were involved, including some who might be foreign nationals, and that they were holding hostages. More than 60 civilians and six soldiers died in the Sept. 21 assault by terrorists from the al Qaeda-affiliated group al Shabaab on the Westgate Mall in Nairobi. After a two-day siege and a series of explosions, Kenyan authorities said they had cleared the mall and killed four attackers. At a Manhattan press conference Tuesday morning, New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said investigators didn’t know “with certainty” how many people were involved, “but we believe there were only four shooters.” The NYPD report also said the attackers carried only light weapons, and that there is no evidence any of them tried to take hostages or remained in the mall after 12:15 a.m. on Sept. 22. It also said the female British jihadi known as the “White Widow” was probably never in the mall, despite tabloid rumors, and that the Kenyan military looted the high-end shopping complex. Lt. Detective Commander Kevin Yorke, who prepared and presented the report, also questioned the Kenyan authorities’ theory that the attackers died when explosions collapsed portions of the mall. "As a cop, I’m very skeptical of claims until I see proof,” said Yorke, and added that there is “a lot of doubt in my mind it is true.” The NYPD sent several detectives to Nairobi with the New York Joint Terrorism Task Force to investigate the assault, and Yorke assembled their findings into the report.According to the NYPD’s reconstruction of events, the four attackers operated in two-man teams and coordinated their movements by cellphone. After throwing three grenades and entering the mall, they used AK-47s in single-fire mode to shoot their victims. More than one-third of the dead were attending a children’s cooking contest that was being held in tents in the mall’s roof parking lot. The attackers killed them within 15 minutes of arriving at the mall. The report said the attackers had grenades and several hundred bullets in eight magazines, but no body armor, handguns or heavy weapons. They did not try to take hostages, but killed as many victims as they could, sparing some who could recite Muslim prayers or name the Prophet Mohammed’s mother. A Russian hand grenade was found on the roof with the pin removed but unexploded. No women were involved. Rumors had circulated during the siege that British citizen Samantha Lewthwaite, the widow of a suicide bomber who attacked the London train system and killed 26 people as part of the “7/7” plot. The NYPD report credits private security guards and personnel with clearing many people from the mall, though some may have fired on each other since they didn’t use badges. Some civilians “played dead” as the terrorists walked past, while others who tried to hide, many in small stores, were shot dead. Kenyan law enforcement initially thought they were responding to an armed robbery at the mall. The first Kenyan tactical team didn’t arrive until 1:45 p.m., about 90 minutes after the attack began, and the Kenyan police commissioner arrived at 1:50 p.m.
The police department tactical team entered the mall at 3 p.m., without police markings or identifications, and were fired on by Kenyan soldiers, killing the commander of the unit.According to the NYPD report, the responding Kenyans “had no idea what the mall looked like internally,” and didn’t know they could access the closed circuit television system.
One terrorist was shot in the leg. The shooters tilted or destroyed cameras in order to hide their whereabouts. By 6 p.m. they were in a mall storeroom near the loading docks, and waited there for six hours, tending their wounded comrade and praying. They can no longer be seen on closed circuit footage after 12:15 p.m., when the NYPD believes they slipped away. The siege continued for two more days. In his presentation, Yorke dismissed the Kenyan government’s claims that 10 to 15 shooters were involved or that the terrorists had created smoke by setting mattresses on fire. He said he didn’t know what had caused the mall to collapse, but said the Kenyan military may have used rocket-propelled grenades and anti-tank missiles on the building, and that heat from fires caused by the explosions may have weakened the poorly built structure. Yorke said that while the Kenyan military may not have killed any of the attackers, there was “significant” physical and video evidence that they had looted the mall." Link to full report hereIn short, NYPD concur with Jicho Pevu... Their report contradicts the GK which maintains that the suspects DNA is being tested from at least 7 out of 9 bodies dug out of the debris as we read in this article where the Brits are in charge of the forensic analysis...  So foreign reports will eventually rip this thing wide open... |
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Post by jakaswanga on Dec 11, 2013 22:57:45 GMT 3
Only four shooters at Kenya mall and they may have escaped alive, says NYPDBy Tom Winter ----NBC News "Only four men may have carried out the attack on a Kenyan mall that killed more than 60 civilians in September, and they probably escaped alive, according to an NYPD report made public Tuesday. The report debunked many of the assertions made by Kenyan authorities, who claimed that as many as 15 attackers were involved, including some who might be foreign nationals, and that they were holding hostages. According to the NYPD’s reconstruction of events, the four attackers operated in two-man teams So foreign reports will eventually rip this thing wide open... b6k! You can not possibly be serious! 4 cornered attackers with light, single-fire arms took the might of the KDF 3 days to sort out, and even then, they escaped! Really do you see what this straight-talking New York cop is intimating? 2000 KDF commandos in 72 hours hot action against 4 gods of war then! 2000 Against 4 boys with one of them shot in the leg!? Ai yawa! ---No wonder Museveni sends 4 policemen to take over Migingo! |
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Post by b6k on Dec 13, 2013 7:39:02 GMT 3
b6k! You can not possibly be serious! 4 cornered attackers with light, single-fire arms took the might of the KDF 3 days to sort out, and even then, they escaped! Really do you see what this straight-talking New York cop is intimating? 2000 KDF commandos in 72 hours hot action against 4 gods of war then! 2000 Against 4 boys with one of them shot in the leg!? Ai yawa! ---No wonder Museveni sends 4 policemen to take over Migingo! , indeed the Ugandans routinely round up and discipline the thin line of "disciplined forces" KE has stationed on Migingo island. Truth be told, weren't we recently told not to make much ado about a simple "rock" so what's the fuss about? Incidentally the NYPD report didn't make major ripples in the global media. You won't find much footage of whatever press release Lt. Yorke may have held. The only footage I found was a third rate news organization covering the NBC report I highlighted above: Not to be outdone, our very own Major Emmanuel Chirchir (yes the tweeting soldier) swiftly responded thus: Kenya says all terrorists died in mall attack By TOM ODULA 5 hours ago NAIROBI, Kenya (AP) — "All the terrorists died in a recent attack on a Kenyan mall, contrary to suggestions in a New York Police Department report that some of the attackers could have escaped, a Kenyan official said Thursday. Somalia's al-Shabab militant group claimed responsibility for the Sept. 21 attack on Westgate Mall in Nairobi in which at least 67 people were killed. Maj. Emmanuel Chirchir, a military spokesman, said that the bodies of the four attackers were discovered and dismissed suggestions, attributed to a New York Police Department report released this week, that some of the attackers could have escaped. Chirchir dismissed the NYPD report, saying it used secondary information and that NYPD did not have representatives among the group of western investigators assisting Kenya with the probe.At an NYPD briefing on Tuesday for corporate security officials, Lt. Kevin Yorke of the Intelligence Division presented an analysis of the Kenyan attack and the response by authorities there that he said was "based solely on open-source information we gathered and is unclassified."Much of the presentation focused on closed-circuit footage of the four shooters during the first 12 hours of the siege. One segment showed the men hiding out in a storage area until one disabled a camera. Yorke said it was the last known images of the terrorists, and questioned why they weren't seen again even though other closed-circuit cameras around the mall were running for another 34 hours. "That's the million-dollar question: Were the terrorists killed or did they escape? As cop, I'm very skeptical of any claims unless I see some proof," he said. "To put it politely, the Kenyan government has been vague and contradictory in their explanations. ... So while the Kenyan government says the terrorists are dead, killed in the rooftop collapse, there's a lot of doubt in my mind that it's true." Western investigators, led by the FBI, have said it appears likely all four attackers died inside the mall. Kenyan investigators say they have identified three of the four attackers from pictures and DNA tests of the remains that were found. Three of the four attackers died of fire or smoke inhalation, said the Kenyan official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to share the information.In court documents Kenya's Anti-terrorism Police Unit identifies two of the attackers as Hassan Abdi Dhuhulow, a 23-year-old Somalia native whose family moved to Norway in 1999, and Mohammed Abdinur Said, who a Kenyan official told the Associated Press was a refugee in Kakuma refugee camp in northwestern Kenya. Kenyan officials have not released the name of the third attacker that they say they have identified. The four Westgate Mall attackers — all ethnic Somalis — crossed into Kenya in June and settled in Nairobi's ethnic Somali neighborhood, where they worked out at the Andalus Gym, a Western official said last month. None of the four had ever been to the U.S. or Britain, the official said. ___ Associated Press writer Tom Hays contributed to this report from the New York." news.yahoo.com/kenya-says-terrorists-died-mall-attack-162530999.htmlSo, Jakaswanga, NYPD were not on the ground at Westgate & the FBI, who were, appear to be supporting the official line that all the suspects died in the mall. For those hoping the FBI will tell the truth, remember Father Kaizer... |
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 12, 2015 12:53:38 GMT 3
THIS IS A FOOTNOTE.this of course is the wrong thread. Right thread: Bernard Kipkemoi Tonui, Hero National, RECCE squad, fallen Garissa University, April 2 2015. But I have searched and searched Kenyan archives for the NAME AND EULOGY and FINAL RESPECTS paid to the RECCE COMMANDER slain at the WESTGATE MALL.Help me, O countrymen, that I know where he lies buried and what epitaph is on his tomb. or should I take my condolences to the tomb of the unknown soldier, nameless in death after duty with honour? Teaching the history of ones land with pages torn from its memory is ones land at the Alzheimer ward. your intellectual life is over.Well, mine is not, so, Brave Kipkemoi Tonui, as you fare to the realms where them that are dead habit, Hades, do thy goest to sit beside your former commander at Westgate, him who the lootenants of Karangi slew, and easen his pain a bit by a share of the knowledge, that the traitorous vermin running Kenya with their meaningless tongues may have denied him salutes and homage and glory and recognition, but they represent not the nation, nor the hearts of our people. For in the hearts of our people, brave unknown soldier, we compose songs of salute to you. that you rest in peace.Damnation memorae was in Old Rome when a man was extirpated from official history. I for one will not let you folks forget the DEBT OF HONOUR owed to the RECCE commander of Westgate. 30 minutes from arrival he had secured the building with his Unit. And now in Garissa, RECCE was at it again. I want us to value, every drop of Kenyan blood shed in the line of duty. the selective memories of the likes of Uhuru and Ruto insult national honour.
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But like the old science of Kremlinology, or even better, pathology, one can use these reports like a forensic uses scattered and broken bones to reconstruct a skeleton, and finally identify the body in full!
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, the real hero of the day, the officer commanding the Recce Squad. [Name withheld?]
??!!!!
