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Post by OtishOtish on Sept 29, 2013 23:57:51 GMT 3
Saturday, September 28, 2013 - 16:00 -- BY POLITICAL DESK Military officers arrive for the operation at nakumatt westgate. Photo/charles kimani Just who was the military fighting at Westgate on Sunday and Monday? We are told by people who were inside the mall during the siege that there were no terrorists shooting at the officers. We hear that the terrorists were contained on Saturday evening by regular, administration and police reservists who arrived at the scene moments after the attack occurred. Questions are now being asked why the military kicked out everyone else and went on shooting till Wednesday and never showed any body of the terrorists who had been killed. Questions are also being raised on who and why the building was collapsed yet the terrorists had been contained in Nakumatt on Saturday. ==== Still on matters Westgate, why did the military take so long to allow other people, including forensic experts, in? We are told that military also tampered with forensic evidence by busting water pipes, a move that contaminated the scene. Corridors is also wondering why the military wanted to completely demolish the Westgate building despite having declared victory against the terror group. www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-137658/corridors-powerIt appears that the "heroic disciplined forces" were busy with other things. There are numerous reports of looting, as happened at JKIA, and hardly any body to show for all the terrorists that were supposedly shot dead. |
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Post by wanyee on Sept 30, 2013 20:40:10 GMT 3
Hmmm...no bodies?! Maybe they were "also" buried in the sea! Man-K and kamalet, I am still waiting for your responses. Meanwhile, please consider the following, with respect to "complicity": Keenan, J. (2010). Africa unsecured? The role of the Global War On Terror (GWOT) in securing US imperial interests in Africa. Routledge, Critical Studies on Terrorism (3)1, 27-47 This paper explains and illustrates how the US Administration of President George W. Bush used the pretext of its global war on terror to justify the launch of a new African, Saharan–Sahelian front in the global war on terror, which in turn justified the creation of a new regional combatant command for Africa (AFRICOM) and the subsequent militarisation of much of Africa to meet and satisfy America's new imperial designs. It also explains why the terrorism that justified the launch of this new front was fabricated by Algeria's military intelligence serices working complicitly with their US counterparts. The paper illustrates why the Bush Administration's policy towards Africa, so far continued by the Barack Obama presidency, has brought mostly increased repression, unrest and political instability. It concludes that as long as US policy towards Africa remains fundamentally imperialist and conducted through AFRICOM, it is unlikely to deliver peace, security or development. SOURCE: www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/17539151003594186#.UkfDhNL_KSoSee also: 1998 Kenya Bombing: Origins of the U.S-Led "War on Terror" jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/8699/1998-kenya-bombing-genesis-terror |
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Post by mank on Sept 30, 2013 21:17:18 GMT 3
Cannot be ruled out? Of course yes, I can agree with that. That is why I did not have the same arguments against OO's posting. Why you think it is a reasonable allegation is a whole different matter, and I have disagreed with that. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 30, 2013 21:55:38 GMT 3
Saturday, September 28, 2013 - 16:00 -- BY POLITICAL DESK Military officers arrive for the operation at nakumatt westgate. Photo/charles kimani Just who was the military fighting at Westgate on Sunday and Monday? We are told by people who were inside the mall during the siege that there were no terrorists shooting at the officers. We hear that the terrorists were contained on Saturday evening by regular, administration and police reservists who arrived at the scene moments after the attack occurred. Questions are now being asked why the military kicked out everyone else and went on shooting till Wednesday and never showed any body of the terrorists who had been killed. Questions are also being raised on who and why the building was collapsed yet the terrorists had been contained in Nakumatt on Saturday. ==== Still on matters Westgate, why did the military take so long to allow other people, including forensic experts, in? We are told that military also tampered with forensic evidence by busting water pipes, a move that contaminated the scene. Corridors is also wondering why the military wanted to completely demolish the Westgate building despite having declared victory against the terror group. www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-137658/corridors-powerIt appears that the "heroic disciplined forces" were busy with other things. There are numerous reports of looting, as happened at JKIA, and hardly any body to show for all the terrorists that were supposedly shot dead. THE SYSTEMATIC LOOTING AND RANSACKING BY THE KDF OR THE TERRORISTS OR THE HOSTAGES? www.nation.co.ke/news/Mall-tenants-shock-over-looted-shops/-/1056/2012540/-/g9joxw/-/index.html There is a nice detail, that the burnt Nakumatt Supermarket --the one on the first floor [which was cleared of terrorists on Saturday within the first hours of the attack, but which the terrorists recaptured  on Sunday and set fire to its mattresses]-- was actually looted clean before the arson! So when a security perimeter was enforced around the mall, it was to allow the KDF clean up the area to the bone! thereafter they blew it up, to hide their proletarian shopping spree!? Is anybody going to be serious, condemning the KDF who earn 50,000 ksh for looting jewels and rados and I-pads costing $1,000 ? and that in a country where JSC commissioners sit for ten minutes and earn the same?You go to be sick in your head to think a man with a gun who earns peanuts and is on a killing mission is going to forget to loot! Feel lucky they did not pounce on rescued hostages and demand payment in sex on the spot! ---you read stories of women raped by the KDF in Garissa or wherever, fiction you say? wait until they do it to you!? NB: Investigations? the Kenya police wants to go and question Kenyan elite commandos? may be the commander of the Recce tried to stop the soldiers from looting, that is why he was friendly fired on. With no clear information on how he died, what do we know? This was a theater of intense combat, and things happen nice guys rather not know! Now we wait for the INSURANCE INDUSTRY, to hear their spin! [how will they define the loss through looting? --given the business stewards who actually managed to lock their premises and set alarms, as is demanded] |
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Post by b6k on Sept 30, 2013 22:42:38 GMT 3
Saturday, September 28, 2013 - 16:00 -- BY POLITICAL DESK Military officers arrive for the operation at nakumatt westgate. Photo/charles kimani Just who was the military fighting at Westgate on Sunday and Monday? We are told by people who were inside the mall during the siege that there were no terrorists shooting at the officers. We hear that the terrorists were contained on Saturday evening by regular, administration and police reservists who arrived at the scene moments after the attack occurred. Questions are now being asked why the military kicked out everyone else and went on shooting till Wednesday and never showed any body of the terrorists who had been killed. Questions are also being raised on who and why the building was collapsed yet the terrorists had been contained in Nakumatt on Saturday. ==== Still on matters Westgate, why did the military take so long to allow other people, including forensic experts, in? We are told that military also tampered with forensic evidence by busting water pipes, a move that contaminated the scene. Corridors is also wondering why the military wanted to completely demolish the Westgate building despite having declared victory against the terror group. www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-137658/corridors-powerIt appears that the "heroic disciplined forces" were busy with other things. There are numerous reports of looting, as happened at JKIA, and hardly any body to show for all the terrorists that were supposedly shot dead. Ever the KE pesimist, you are quick to jump on any negative reporting & accept it as the gospel truth. Isn't it possible the KDF threw everyone out of the building for their own safety given that they knew they were going to unleash hell on anyone who looked remotely like a bogey (" Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius"*)? (Especially if you believe the death by friendly fire of the commander of the GSU Recce squad at the hands of the KDF?). As to looting of easily concealable items such as cash or jewelry that was easily concealable on one's person, isn't it more likely that the a few wayward staff members of the 80 or more shops within the Westagate Mall took advantage of the chaos & emptied the contents of their muhindi bosses' tills & stock before they scampered for safety as survivors of the siege? Sometimes it's best to let the dust settle before crying "foul"....& settle it will. *" Kill them all, for the Lord knows his own..." |
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Post by b6k on Sept 30, 2013 22:54:21 GMT 3
It appears that the "heroic disciplined forces" were busy with other things. There are numerous reports of looting, as happened at JKIA, and hardly any body to show for all the terrorists that were supposedly shot dead. THE SYSTEMATIC LOOTING AND RANSACKING BY THE KDF OR THE TERRORISTS OR THE HOSTAGES? www.nation.co.ke/news/Mall-tenants-shock-over-looted-shops/-/1056/2012540/-/g9joxw/-/index.html There is a nice detail, that the burnt Nakumatt Supermarket --the one on the first floor [which was cleared of terrorists on Saturday within the first hours of the attack, but which the terrorists recaptured on Sunday and set fire to its mattresses]-- was actually looted clean before the arson! So when a security perimeter was enforced around the mall, it was to allow the KDF clean up the area to the bone! thereafter they blew it up, to hide their proletarian shopping spree!?Is anybody going to be serious, condemning the KDF who earn 50,000 ksh for looting jewels and rados and I-pads costing $1,000 ? and that in a country where JSC commissioners sit for ten minutes and earn the same?You go to be sick in your head to think a man with a gun who earns peanuts and is on a killing mission is going to forget to loot! Feel lucky they did not pounce on rescued hostages and demand payment in sex on the spot! ---you read stories of women raped by the KDF in Garissa or wherever, fiction you say? wait until they do it to you!? NB: Investigations? the Kenya police wants to go and question Kenyan elite commandos? may be the commander of the Recce tried to stop the soldiers from looting, that is why he was friendly fired on. With no clear information on how he died, what do we know? This was a theater of intense combat, and things happen nice guys rather not know! Now we wait for the INSURANCE INDUSTRY, to hear their spin! [how will they define the loss through looting? --given the business stewards who actually managed to lock their premises and set alarms, as is demanded] , just one question. If indeed shops that had been secured by their owners were subsequently looted "to the bone" after which they were blown up (& one assumes burnt to the ground to hide evidence of the looting), how did the owners walk back into ransacked shops strewn with empty boxes? Didn't the KDF have enough time to make good of their post looting spree by ensuring ALL the evidence was nothing but ashes? |
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Post by OtishOtish on Sept 30, 2013 23:13:40 GMT 3
b6k: Kenya is Kenya, and Kenyans and Kenyans. We all know that. But I see your point. It is certainly possible that the odd wayward employee, while facing near-certain death, might have decided to take a few moments to blow open the door of some strong-room and get a few shillings. (Having once been in a similar situation, I am amazed that anyone should the focus of mind to think of something other that getting the hell out of Dodge.) So we must not rush to judge the "disciplined forces", although just not too long ago they had their bit at JKIA. While we wait for the "dust to settle", enjoy this view of the heroic mission:  Scanning the social media on this one, it looks like Kenya has been overrun with "KE pessimists". Some wag even remarked that had the security operation gone on much longer, even the gate would have gone and the place would have to be renamed "West Mall"! Cheeky sod. |
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Post by b6k on Sept 30, 2013 23:32:39 GMT 3
b6k: Kenya is Kenya, and Kenyans and Kenyans. We all know that. But I see your point. It is certainly possible that the odd wayward employee, while facing near-certain death, might have decided to take a few moments to blow open the door of some strong-room and get a few shillings. (Having once been in a similar situation, I am amazed that anyone should the focus of mind to think of something other that getting the hell out of Dodge.) So we must not rush to judge the "disciplined forces", although just not too long ago they had their bit at JKIA. While we wait for the "dust to settle", enjoy this view of the heroic mission: Scanning the social media on this one, it looks like Kenya has been overrun with "KE pessimists". Some wag even remarked that had the security operation gone on much longer, even the gate would have gone and the place would have to be renamed "West Mall"! Cheeky sod. , ordinary Kenyans often are capable of unspeakable deeds towards their fellow citizens. All you need to look at is what often happens after a routine traffic accident. If the occupants of the crashed vehicle are disabled enough, either by injury or just the sheer shock of having had a car accident, they are very likely to be swiftly relieved of any valuables they may have on them by "good samaritans", even before they get any kind of genuine assistance. Isn't that the kind of mentality the Sachangwan fire was made of? Opportunity at someone else's expense? Good ol' Gado, our brother from TZ. God bless him. He does have the knack of taking the mickey out of our infinite foibles. If we are to have any kind of KE pessimists' fest then it should be more about the fact that our brothers & sisters at immigration, police, & the judiciary have become accustomed to making a quick buck & setting free al Shabaab members or their sympathizers at the expense of our collective security. But, what the heck, it's the Kenyan way of biz as usual after all...  |
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Post by mank on Oct 1, 2013 0:02:15 GMT 3
It appears that the "heroic disciplined forces" were busy with other things. There are numerous reports of looting, as happened at JKIA, and hardly any body to show for all the terrorists that were supposedly shot dead. THE SYSTEMATIC LOOTING AND RANSACKING BY THE KDF OR THE TERRORISTS OR THE HOSTAGES? www.nation.co.ke/news/Mall-tenants-shock-over-looted-shops/-/1056/2012540/-/g9joxw/-/index.html There is a nice detail, that the burnt Nakumatt Supermarket --the one on the first floor [which was cleared of terrorists on Saturday within the first hours of the attack, but which the terrorists recaptured on Sunday and set fire to its mattresses]-- was actually looted clean before the arson! That's the common sense view of things! I can always count on you with those! But there is the "un"common sense side of things too .... in 1982, when hell broke lose in Nairobi, lots of military men came home rich! I don't know how ... but you can go speculate. Some regular folks were looting cow and goat carcasses from butcheries ... bare and dripping blood! Later, when the comics would draw cartoons of the latter in the papers, it was LOL anywhere you read the paper from. The former group was a whole different story - mystic and a superior creed. Which group would the typical guy wish to belong with if an event similar to 1982 were to reoccur? |
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 1, 2013 2:59:22 GMT 3
Otishotish, ordinary Kenyans often are capable of unspeakable deeds towards their fellow citizens. All you need to look at is what often happens after a routine traffic accident. If the occupants of the crashed vehicle are disabled enough, either by injury or just the sheer shock of having had a car accident, they are very likely to be swiftly relieved of any valuables they may have on them by "good samaritans", even before they get any kind of genuine assistance. Isn't that the kind of mentality the Sachangwan fire was made of? Opportunity at someone else's expense? Unspeakable deeds, eh? And some of those "ordinary Kenyans" will later join the "disciplined forces"? That might explain a few things anyway. Anyway, be careful in what you write; you might get mistaken for a "KE pessimist". |
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Post by kamalet on Oct 1, 2013 8:26:12 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, just one question. If indeed shops that had been secured by their owners were subsequently looted "to the bone" after which they were blown up (& one assumes burnt to the ground to hide evidence of the looting), how did the owners walk back into ransacked shops strewn with empty boxes? Didn't the KDF have enough time to make good of their post looting spree by ensuring ALL the evidence was nothing but ashes? I think we have too many people who want to relegate the gallantry of our security forces in helping the rescue of hundreds of Kenyans by zeroing on the issue of looting. The suggestion that our military were nothing more than a bunch of looters will surely hurt those that put their lives on the line especially since these allegations that are repeated without sufficient proof are now being peddled as gospel truth. When no one seems to question the Indian Shopkeeper who alleges that he left his shop securely closed and now found it broken into - how in the chaos he would have had the time to pull down shutters and bold up a place - you can easily see how mentally lazy we can become. We have been of terrorist snipers with high calibre guns in the mall....so can you imagine our security guys walking in to break a shop with such a risk hanging over their heads? If truly our military were involved in looting the shops, it would be very simple to catch them as the units inside the building were a specific group which can be investigated to find out is anyone has the loot. There were foreign forces observing the Kenyan units inside the building from S. Africa, Uganda Israel et al.....surely these can tell us how theiving our special forces are. |
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Post by wanyee on Oct 1, 2013 10:45:01 GMT 3
Man-K, So, we agree that "official complicity" CANNOT be ruled out. As for the reason why I believe that this may be a reasonable allegation, or what Kenya would gain from playing the pawn, I suggested the United States’ “new approach to development aid,” the Millennium Challenge Account (MCA). Differing from conventional forms of development assistance, the MCA rewards performance and measures results in order to produce “an operational action plan aimed at ensuring that the goals set by the” United Sates “national security strategy are reached.” Thus, this has been appropriately described as ‘pre-emptive development.’ Official complicity, as in the case of Algeria, can also be rewarded with the procurement of modern high-tech military equipment and international acceptability as Washington's key ally in the GWOT. Please consider the following: Al-Qaeda in the SahelLast updated: 29 August 2010Jeremy Keenan explains how a Saharan front in the 'global war on terror' was fabricated. In November 2009, Richard Barrett of the UN's al-Qaeda-Taliban monitoring team said that while attacks by al-Qaeda and its operatives were decreasing in many parts of the world, the situation was worsening in North Africa. He was referring specifically to the Sahel region of southern Algeria, Niger, Mali and Mauritania. While the UN statement fits the catastrophic image being portrayed of the Sahara-Sahel region by the US, European and other Western interests, the truth is not only very different, but even more serious in that both the launch of the Saharan-Sahelian front in the 'global war on terror' (GWOT) and the subsequent establishment of al-Qaeda in the region have been fabricated. These two deceptions have one key feature in common, namely that they were both implemented by Algeria's secret military intelligence service, the Département du Renseignement et de la Sécurité (DRS), with the knowledge and complicity of the US. I will explain each in turn. Read more: 1998 Kenya Bombing: Origins of the U.S-Led “War on Terror"jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/8699/1998-kenya-bombing-genesis-terror-- Man-K, do you think it is possible that dark elements within the Kenyan government or security services could also conduct false flag operations, in order to justify Kenya's military incursion into Somalia? Kamalet, I am still waiting for your response. |
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Post by mank on Oct 1, 2013 14:53:23 GMT 3
Man-K, So, we agree that "official complicity" CANNOT be ruled out. As for the reason why I believe that this may be a reasonable allegation, or what Kenya would gain from playing the pawn, I suggested the United States’ “new approach to development aid,” the Millennium Challenge Account (MCA). Differing from conventional forms of development assistance, the MCA rewards performance and measures results in order to produce “an operational action plan aimed at ensuring that the goals set by the” United Sates “national security strategy are reached.” Thus, this has been appropriately described as ‘pre-emptive development.’ Official complicity, as in the case of Algeria, can also be rewarded with the procurement of modern high-tech military equipment and international acceptability as Washington's key ally in the GWOT. Please consider the following: Al-Qaeda in the SahelLast updated: 29 August 2010Jeremy Keenan explains how a Saharan front in the 'global war on terror' was fabricated. In November 2009, Richard Barrett of the UN's al-Qaeda-Taliban monitoring team said that while attacks by al-Qaeda and its operatives were decreasing in many parts of the world, the situation was worsening in North Africa. He was referring specifically to the Sahel region of southern Algeria, Niger, Mali and Mauritania. While the UN statement fits the catastrophic image being portrayed of the Sahara-Sahel region by the US, European and other Western interests, the truth is not only very different, but even more serious in that both the launch of the Saharan-Sahelian front in the 'global war on terror' (GWOT) and the subsequent establishment of al-Qaeda in the region have been fabricated. These two deceptions have one key feature in common, namely that they were both implemented by Algeria's secret military intelligence service, the Département du Renseignement et de la Sécurité (DRS), with the knowledge and complicity of the US. I will explain each in turn. Read more: 1998 Kenya Bombing: Origins of the U.S-Led “War on Terror"jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/8699/1998-kenya-bombing-genesis-terror-- Man-K, do you think it is possible that dark elements within the Kenyan government or security services could also conduct false flag operations, in order to justify Kenya's military incursion into Somalia? Kamalet, I am still waiting for your response. Wanyee, One night within the year after the 9/11 attack in the US, I listened to one conservative radio in the night and heard a caller ask this: "you know, I have always had this question but I have not dared ask, but tonight I gather the strength to ask .... what if our government did it?". My first reaction was, you can't have a sillier suggestion. Then as days passed and I kept reciting that question of the caller in my mind, and seeing how much government had become all about "war on terror," I decided to myself: "that question need not be silly after all." I am not saying that I fell to the conspiracy theories that followed shortly after that, but I just decided "you never know." It is the same position I hold with your wild idea, but I must say this: If all you base your theory on is the MCA, it is a lousy conspiracy worthy not a quarter of the time I have given it. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Oct 1, 2013 21:29:11 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, just one question. If indeed shops that had been secured by their owners were subsequently looted "to the bone" after which they were blown up (& one assumes burnt to the ground to hide evidence of the looting), how did the owners walk back into ransacked shops strewn with empty boxes? Didn't the KDF have enough time to make good of their post looting spree by ensuring ALL the evidence was nothing but ashes? I think we have too many people who want to relegate the gallantry of our security forces in helping the rescue of hundreds of Kenyans by zeroing on the issue of looting. The suggestion that our military were nothing more than a bunch of looters will surely hurt those that put their lives on the line especially since these allegations that are repeated without sufficient proof are now being peddled as gospel truth. When no one seems to question the Indian Shopkeeper who alleges that he left his shop securely closed and now found it broken into - how in the chaos he would have had the time to pull down shutters and bold up a place - you can easily see how mentally lazy we can become. We have been of terrorist snipers with high calibre guns in the mall....so can you imagine our security guys walking in to break a shop with such a risk hanging over their heads? If truly our military were involved in looting the shops, it would be very simple to catch them as the units inside the building were a specific group which can be investigated to find out is anyone has the loot. There were foreign forces observing the Kenyan units inside the building from S. Africa, Uganda Israel et al.....surely these can tell us how theiving our special forces are. , KamaletIt would appear that certain sections of the building --for instance next to the entrance which is quoted here below, remained intact and safe after all, despite all those explosives and collapse of the third, fourth and roof garage! The most serious note I can strike here is this: --This was a theater of operations. A real war zone. These Al-Shabaab guys meant business, and were on a suicide mission, and bent on taking as many as possible with them. The KDF was there to halt them, and free as many hostages as possible. Then property is not a priority of the military planning. Securing an area means rooms are combed wall to wall, that means high-pressure grenades are tossed in, holes busted in walls and automatic fire sprayed round after round. Closed shops, in case smart terrorists are hiding there, have their doors blown by special pin-point localised explosives, and grenades are tossed into every hook. Adrenaline is high, and no stone is left unturned  . That is if the sweep is clean  , meticulous and thorough. And if you are a commando brigade, that is what it will be, if the mission is to be accomplished. What this journalists and returning owners report as symptoms of VANDALISM is simply the aftermath of a military sweep, or fine comb! That is how war-zones, or closed-combat theaters look like. Messy. I am surprise they did not report the resilient smell of caked blood, fecal matter from bullet-ripped bodies ---or suffocating, pungent disinfectant which would have been used to sanitize the place after the removal of bodies! It would be a very stupid commando unit that swept a mall and left SOME doors unbroken, walls un-punctured, water-pipes unripped [-- you got to know if there is no booby trap inside the pipes! given these Al-Qaeda graduates are master bomb creators]. KDF lost six, and the police three. So what if I-pads were looted and mannequins undressed?If these rich apartheid-elite-like Kenyans do as much as call the KDF criminal looters while these soldiers died tried to save their fat arrzes and even fatter ones of their wives, I will turn very nasty  on them. There is something called class solidarity. These rich, isolated and socially insulated goons have not complained as the Mpigs and the political elite LOOT THE NATIONAL TREASURY, and now they are ready to fry the KDF for looting I-Pads while saving their lives? ---I wont take it! That is when I would rather the KDF showed its real horrible face, and taken those rich exotic wives for some serious multicultural entertainment of the barrackbang type! There is just enough stupidity one can take from the elite in one week. It was the security bosses with whom these rich sods rub shoulders with socially, who allowed the attack to happen in the first place! ---why do they not face that, do a bit of intra class criticism and self-reflection, instead of picking on some of the lowest earners in the country who run the heaviest risks for the nation!? But by Jukwaa exceptionalism , we are the only patriots allowed to question by forensic detail, the total conduct of the KDF. Because that is our brief on a critical blog. We are not businessmen trying to prepare a case for suing the army, because they know insurance wont pay. Which is the reason these fellows are talking of their property as VANDALISED, as if that mall was not a total war-zone where death rained! ---fraudsters! traitors! And yes, some brainless hungry journalists they hire to peddle their slander! Who really, are the real looters in Kenya? ---I never heard of a KDF commando involved in Goldenberg, for starters! |
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Post by jakaswanga on Oct 1, 2013 21:40:05 GMT 3
That's the common sense view of things! I can always count on you with those! But there is the "un"common sense side of things too .... in 1982, when hell broke lose in Nairobi, lots of military men came home rich! I don't know how ... but you can go speculate. Some regular folks were looting cow and goat carcasses from butcheries ... bare and dripping blood! Later, when the comics would draw cartoons of the latter in the papers, it was LOL anywhere you read the paper from. The former group was a whole different story - mystic and a superior creed. Which group would the typical guy wish to belong with if an event similar to 1982 were to reoccur? , on this word loot, and the developing narrative of criminalisation of the KDF unit involved at the Westgate theater of operations. What should we say the Mpigs have been doing with their reckless remunerations regime, up to trying to amend the constitution to exempt themselves from the relevant constitution body? And the JSC [CJ Mutunga and his robed frauds] where men and women earn more from sitting drinking tea than working on something more useful to the country? Is that not merely a 'sophisticated form' of looting? ----Just like we know methods of accounting to avoid tax and hide monies, or front companies to avoid the same and launder money, we can not be fooled by the word 'sitting allowances'. We know what it is: a 'construction of fraud', to loot Wanjiku's purse. The word loot, I gave it some thought! and common sense too! |
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Post by mank on Oct 2, 2013 0:32:59 GMT 3
That's the common sense view of things! I can always count on you with those! But there is the "un"common sense side of things too .... in 1982, when hell broke lose in Nairobi, lots of military men came home rich! I don't know how ... but you can go speculate. Some regular folks were looting cow and goat carcasses from butcheries ... bare and dripping blood! Later, when the comics would draw cartoons of the latter in the papers, it was LOL anywhere you read the paper from. The former group was a whole different story - mystic and a superior creed. Which group would the typical guy wish to belong with if an event similar to 1982 were to reoccur? , on this word loot, and the developing narrative of criminalisation of the KDF unit involved at the Westgate theater of operations. What should we say the Mpigs have been doing with their reckless remunerations regime, up to trying to amend the constitution to exempt themselves from the relevant constitution body? And the JSC [CJ Mutunga and his robed frauds] where men and women earn more from sitting drinking tea than working on something more useful to the country? Is that not merely a 'sophisticated form' of looting? ----Just like we know methods of accounting to avoid tax and hide monies, or front companies to avoid the same and launder money, we can not be fooled by the word 'sitting allowances'. We know what it is: a 'construction of fraud', to loot Wanjiku's purse. The word loot, I gave it some thought! and common sense too! , Sure, you could say that they're looting Wanjiku's purse like they can't imagine it had a bottom. Alternatively I think of them as screwing Wanjiku with reckless abandon. Shamuses! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 7:09:27 GMT 3
FAMOUS QUOTES from the Westgate attack by Joseph Ole Lenku (nominated by President Uhuru Kenyatta as Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government in May 2013):
-"All the terrorists were men except about
three women" -
"We killed all the terrorists even though we...
have not seen their bodies"
-"No police officer looted anything from the
Mall.All the goods had been removed by the
terrorists by the time we arrived" -
"That tunnel was guarded by the police and
no one would pass through it.However,we
suspect those who were arrested at the
airport used it to escape" -
"I can't confirm what I always say" -No
terrorist escaped from the mall, but we
arrested some of them at the airport -
''We're on the final assault. We want to
confirm whether the attackers died or they
are pretending.
-we managed 2kill 3 to 5 terrorists bt we
can't confirm hw many were killed by gun. -
We're in control of all the floors. -It's only on
the 2nd floor that we're facing Resistance. -
We managed to kill all the 5 terrorists, they
were 15 in number.
from Georgina Goodwin
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Post by wanyee on Oct 2, 2013 9:54:01 GMT 3
Man-K, you did not answer my question: Given the previous collusion between the United States and the Algerian intelligence services, in order to fabricate a terrorism threat in Africa’s Sahara-Sahelian region that would legitimise the launch of a new front in the U.S-led “war on terror” and justify the 'militarisation' of Africa via AFRICOM, do you think it is also possible that dark elements within the Kenyan government or security services could conduct false flag operations, in order to justify Kenya's military incursion into Somalia and possibly Kenya's subsequent recognition as Washington’s key ally in the U.S-led “war on terror”?As in the case of Algeria, being such an ally may result in being "rewarded" with the procurement of modern high-tech military equipment and recognition as Washington's key ally in the U.S-led “war on terror”. Kamalet, I am still waiting for your response. See also:ISRAEL BOMBED their OWN Embassy in London [Another Mossad False Flag][Under the following thread] 1998 Kenya Bombing: Origins of the U.S-Led “War on Terror"jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/8699/1998-kenya-bombing-genesis-terror
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Post by b6k on Oct 2, 2013 12:35:52 GMT 3
But by Jukwaa exceptionalism , we are the only patriots allowed to question by forensic detail, the total conduct of the KDF. Because that is our brief on a critical blog. We are not businessmen trying to prepare a case for suing the army, because they know insurance wont pay. Which is the reason these fellows are talking of their property as VANDALISED, as if that mall was not a total war-zone where death rained! ---fraudsters! traitors! Indeed, Jakaswanga if businesses had not taken insurance covers that are "terror" specific then they are up the proverbial creek without a paddle! There are pictures coming out showing evidence of looting...  ...& a party atmosphere at the Westgate Mall...  I hope the KDF lads were drinking AFTER the mission was accomplished, not during the mop up exercise...  Here is Nairobi Xposed's take on the saga (complete with poor grammar & horrendous choice of words...what has 8-4-4 wrought on the English language, mwalimu Jakaswanga? )... www.nairobiexposed.com/2013/09/29/revealed-kdf-stole-millions-westgate-mall/The Tweets from Mutahi Ngunyi at the end of the piece are quite interesting. Tweet No1: “This is a Machiavellian Moment for Uhuru. Give General Karangi a medal then fire him: No medal for General Gichangi – Fire him and overhaul NIS” Tweet No.2: “Cabinet experiment with ‘greenhorn’ ministers is a disaster. Moving Ole Lenku from Assistant beverages manager to security boss is tragic” – Ole Lenku was a career hotelier and was a manager at State-owned Utalii Hotel prior to his appointment to the Cabinet. Lenku’s long-time friend former Interior Minister Katoo ole Metito (now Government Chief Whip and Loitoktok MP) was instrumental in his appointment to the security docket. Tweet No3: “In sum, it is not early for a cabinet reshuffle. Take Ole Lenku to a soft ministry. Then purge NIS with no mercy. No time for a ‘soft’ state Tweet No.4: “On women Ministers: [Devolution Secretary] Ann Waiguru has [John] Michuki’s spirit: ruthlessly efficient. [Ambassador] Amina Mohamed has presence and brains. [Defense Secretary] Racheal Omamo has red eyes Let us hope Uhuruto act on his advice... |
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Post by b6k on Oct 2, 2013 12:39:57 GMT 3
FAMOUS QUOTES from the Westgate attack by Joseph Ole Lenku (nominated by President Uhuru Kenyatta as Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government in May 2013): -"All the terrorists were men except about three women" - "We killed all the terrorists even though we... have not seen their bodies" -"No police officer looted anything from the Mall.All the goods had been removed by the terrorists by the time we arrived" - "That tunnel was guarded by the police and no one would pass through it.However,we suspect those who were arrested at the airport used it to escape" - "I can't confirm what I always say" -No terrorist escaped from the mall, but we arrested some of them at the airport - ''We're on the final assault. We want to confirm whether the attackers died or they are pretending. -we managed 2kill 3 to 5 terrorists bt we can't confirm hw many were killed by gun. - We're in control of all the floors. -It's only on the 2nd floor that we're facing Resistance. - We managed to kill all the 5 terrorists, they were 15 in number. from Georgina Goodwin The "greenhorn minister" is a putz... |
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Post by denno on Oct 2, 2013 15:38:26 GMT 3
As a tribute to our very own "able" and informed Interior secretary someone on Facebook penned this.
In the middle of the #WestgateAttack, someone has come up with this fictional list of famous quotes by the cabinet secretary Joseph Ole Lenku.
1. All the suspects have been arrested. police are looking for them
2. I can confirm, although I am not certain, that we have very good reason to believe that tomorrow is Monday.
3. Yes there were 15 to 20 terrorists. We managed to capture both of them!
4. We killed 5 terrorists, one committed twicide, The other 2 have been blocked by twitter.
5. One of the terrorist who was shot dead last week led us today to the hide out of the other 3 suspects.
6. KDF didn't steal they just held the valuables hostage
7. We recovered 4 bodies from the rubble. Forensic investigation will determine whether they are really dead or pretending
8. We had control of the building except for 4th floor,3rd floor and 2nd floor, but I THINK we had control of the building.
9. There were 15 terrorists, We killed 3 suspects, building collapsed on 5. All of them are dead.
10. All the terrorists were men except about three women
Bonus - We managed to kill all the 5 terrorists, they were 15
Lifted from facebook
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Post by wanyee on Oct 4, 2013 9:13:35 GMT 3
Man-K and kamalet, I am still waiting for your "respective" responses (pun intended). Meanwhile: Making money from false terrorism gives their game awayTuesday, October 01, 2013"Israeli Alex Trajtenberg, insured Westgate Shopping Mall through UK’s Lloyd’s market for about Sh6.6 billion. According to the Business Daily of Kenya (27, Sept. 2013 article "Westgate insurer faces Sh6.6 billion compensation bill"), the insurance deal specifically included a cover against political violence where acts of terrorism fall. Mr. Trajtenberg declined to comment on the matter. Alas, another smoking gun very reminiscent of Larry Silverstein's little murderous insurance fraud on 9/11. If you need any confirmation that this was a pre-planned false flag synthetic terror incident, it's right here. Keep in mind also, that the Westgate Mall was built by the Westfield Group in 2007. Now what you may not know, is that the Westfield Group was owned by Frank Lowy, who alongside Larry Silverstein made billions from the 9/11 synthetic terrorist attacks." SOURCE: the-tap.blogspot.com/2013/10/making-money-from-false-terrorism-gives.htmlThis is a list of all Westfield properties associated with “terrorist attacks” since the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the United States:1. September 21, 2005: Westfield Mall in Perth, Australia, bomb threat. 2. May 17, 2006: Westfield Woden, Australia, bomb threat. 3. July 21, 2007: Westfield Centre Derby, England, bomb threat that caused the evacuation of Westfield buildings. 4. March 1, 2008: Westfield Old Orchard Mall, Skokie, Illinois, bomb threat. 5. April 20, 2009: Westfield Annapolis Hotel, bomb threat. 6. September 20, 2008: Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, Pakistan, bombing. 7. July 17, 2008: Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia, bombing. See also:Westfield back at 9/11 site in New YorkJEFF WHALLEY
HERALD SUN
JULY 30, 2011 12:00AMThe World Trade Centre site is to be turned into retail space with the help of the Westfield Group. Picture: Mark Lennihan Source: AP AUSTRALIAN shopping centre goliath Westfield Group is to return to New York's World Trade Centre site, playing a key role in the redevelopment of the retail precinct. The world's biggest shopping centre owner yesterday revealed it had signed a $558 million deal to manage and lease out new retail facilities at the site of the September 11 terrorist attacks. Plans for the retail premises include 33,909 sq m of leasable space earmarked to open in early 2015. Westfield will become a business partner with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey in the development of the precinct, and gains a 50 per cent share in the joint venture. "We will be creating a world-class, iconic shopping experience for Lower Manhattan and the city of New York," Westfield joint chief executive Peter Lowy said. Westfield held the rights to develop retail space at the centre when the attacks took place in 2001. But the Australian property giant sold its stake in the property back to the port authority in 2003 to help simplify the rebuilding process. The deal comes almost a decade after the attacks. Westfield said it could invest a further $34.2 million to achieve agreed yield targets. SOURCE: m.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/westfield-back-at-911-site-in-new-york/story-fn6bn4mv-1226104625132---------- Related:1998 Kenya Bombing: Origins of the U.S-Led “War on Terror"jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/8699/1998-kenya-bombing-origins-terror
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Post by kamalet on Oct 4, 2013 13:13:09 GMT 3
Man-K and kamalet, I am still waiting for your "respective" responses (pun intended). Meanwhile: Making money from false terrorism gives their game awayTuesday, October 01, 2013"Israeli Alex Trajtenberg, insured Westgate Shopping Mall through UK’s Lloyd’s market for about Sh6.6 billion. According to the Business Daily of Kenya (27, Sept. 2013 article "Westgate insurer faces Sh6.6 billion compensation bill"), the insurance deal specifically included a cover against political violence where acts of terrorism fall. Mr. Trajtenberg declined to comment on the matter. Alas, another smoking gun very reminiscent of Larry Silverstein's little murderous insurance fraud on 9/11. If you need any confirmation that this was a pre-planned false flag synthetic terror incident, it's right here. Keep in mind also, that the Westgate Mall was built by the Westfield Group in 2007. Now what you may not know, is that the Westfield Group was owned by Frank Lowy, who alongside Larry Silverstein made billions from the 9/11 synthetic terrorist attacks." SOURCE: the-tap.blogspot.com/2013/10/making-money-from-false-terrorism-gives.htmlThis is a list of all Westfield properties associated with “terrorist attacks” since the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the United States:1. September 21, 2005: Westfield Mall in Perth, Australia, bomb threat. 2. May 17, 2006: Westfield Woden, Australia, bomb threat. 3. July 21, 2007: Westfield Centre Derby, England, bomb threat that caused the evacuation of Westfield buildings. 4. March 1, 2008: Westfield Old Orchard Mall, Skokie, Illinois, bomb threat. 5. April 20, 2009: Westfield Annapolis Hotel, bomb threat. 6. September 20, 2008: Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, Pakistan, bombing. 7. July 17, 2008: Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia, bombing. See also:Westfield back at 9/11 site in New YorkJEFF WHALLEY
HERALD SUN
JULY 30, 2011 12:00AMThe World Trade Centre site is to be turned into retail space with the help of the Westfield Group. Picture: Mark Lennihan Source: AP AUSTRALIAN shopping centre goliath Westfield Group is to return to New York's World Trade Centre site, playing a key role in the redevelopment of the retail precinct. The world's biggest shopping centre owner yesterday revealed it had signed a $558 million deal to manage and lease out new retail facilities at the site of the September 11 terrorist attacks. Plans for the retail premises include 33,909 sq m of leasable space earmarked to open in early 2015. Westfield will become a business partner with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey in the development of the precinct, and gains a 50 per cent share in the joint venture. "We will be creating a world-class, iconic shopping experience for Lower Manhattan and the city of New York," Westfield joint chief executive Peter Lowy said. Westfield held the rights to develop retail space at the centre when the attacks took place in 2001. But the Australian property giant sold its stake in the property back to the port authority in 2003 to help simplify the rebuilding process. The deal comes almost a decade after the attacks. Westfield said it could invest a further $34.2 million to achieve agreed yield targets. SOURCE: m.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/westfield-back-at-911-site-in-new-york/story-fn6bn4mv-1226104625132---------- Related:1998 Kenya Bombing: Origins of the U.S-Led “War on Terror"jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/8699/1998-kenya-bombing-origins-terror Wanyee I cautioned on the behavioor of copying and pasting stuff and then wanting us to debate you! This one on Insurance fraud is the latest. I can talk about this as I spent a huge chunk of my life in the insurance and reinsurance industry and am still involved albeit in another way. No Kenya asset can be insured abroad without permission from the Insurance Regulator and even the price of the building pales in comparison to what Kenyan insurers can cover. So your Israeli investor could not have placed the insurance of the building directly with Lloyds. This could only have been done via a Kenyan company as any normal reinsurance cession. Secondly Political risks do not include Terrorism as these are two different types of insurance perils in their very nature. so what else did you want to hear from me? |
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Post by mank on Oct 4, 2013 14:50:09 GMT 3
Man-K and kamalet, I am still waiting for your "respective" responses (pun intended). Meanwhile: Making money from false terrorism gives their game awayTuesday, October 01, 2013"Israeli Alex Trajtenberg, insured Westgate Shopping Mall through UK’s Lloyd’s market for about Sh6.6 billion. According to the Business Daily of Kenya (27, Sept. 2013 article "Westgate insurer faces Sh6.6 billion compensation bill"), the insurance deal specifically included a cover against political violence where acts of terrorism fall. Mr. Trajtenberg declined to comment on the matter. Alas, another smoking gun very reminiscent of Larry Silverstein's little murderous insurance fraud on 9/11. If you need any confirmation that this was a pre-planned false flag synthetic terror incident, it's right here. Keep in mind also, that the Westgate Mall was built by the Westfield Group in 2007. Now what you may not know, is that the Westfield Group was owned by Frank Lowy, who alongside Larry Silverstein made billions from the 9/11 synthetic terrorist attacks." SOURCE: the-tap.blogspot.com/2013/10/making-money-from-false-terrorism-gives.htmlThis is a list of all Westfield properties associated with “terrorist attacks” since the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the United States:1. September 21, 2005: Westfield Mall in Perth, Australia, bomb threat. 2. May 17, 2006: Westfield Woden, Australia, bomb threat. 3. July 21, 2007: Westfield Centre Derby, England, bomb threat that caused the evacuation of Westfield buildings. 4. March 1, 2008: Westfield Old Orchard Mall, Skokie, Illinois, bomb threat. 5. April 20, 2009: Westfield Annapolis Hotel, bomb threat. 6. September 20, 2008: Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, Pakistan, bombing. 7. July 17, 2008: Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, Indonesia, bombing. See also:Westfield back at 9/11 site in New YorkJEFF WHALLEY
HERALD SUN
JULY 30, 2011 12:00AMThe World Trade Centre site is to be turned into retail space with the help of the Westfield Group. Picture: Mark Lennihan Source: AP AUSTRALIAN shopping centre goliath Westfield Group is to return to New York's World Trade Centre site, playing a key role in the redevelopment of the retail precinct. The world's biggest shopping centre owner yesterday revealed it had signed a $558 million deal to manage and lease out new retail facilities at the site of the September 11 terrorist attacks. Plans for the retail premises include 33,909 sq m of leasable space earmarked to open in early 2015. Westfield will become a business partner with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey in the development of the precinct, and gains a 50 per cent share in the joint venture. "We will be creating a world-class, iconic shopping experience for Lower Manhattan and the city of New York," Westfield joint chief executive Peter Lowy said. Westfield held the rights to develop retail space at the centre when the attacks took place in 2001. But the Australian property giant sold its stake in the property back to the port authority in 2003 to help simplify the rebuilding process. The deal comes almost a decade after the attacks. Westfield said it could invest a further $34.2 million to achieve agreed yield targets. SOURCE: m.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/westfield-back-at-911-site-in-new-york/story-fn6bn4mv-1226104625132---------- Related:1998 Kenya Bombing: Origins of the U.S-Led “War on Terror"jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/8699/1998-kenya-bombing-origins-terror Wanyee I cautioned on the behavioor of copying and pasting stuff and then wanting us to debate you! This one on Insurance fraud is the latest. I can talk about this as I spent a huge chunk of my life in the insurance and reinsurance industry and am still involved albeit in another way. No Kenya asset can be insured abroad without permission from the Insurance Regulator and even the price of the building pales in comparison to what Kenyan insurers can cover. So your Israeli investor could not have placed the insurance of the building directly with Lloyds. This could only have been done via a Kenyan company as any normal reinsurance cession. Secondly Political risks do not include Terrorism as these are two different types of insurance perils in their very nature. so what else did you want to hear from me? How I wish the building was insured for that much, and for losses related to terrorism! If Kamalet did not post the above, I would assume the alleged insurance to be factual, and would be feeling better about the situation. How I pray Kamalet is wrong! Then we can be sure to see that Kenya's shopping mall restored, perhaps even to a more economically visible facility! Now, assuming the building was insured with the UK’s Lloyd’s market for about Sh6.6 billion, are you suggesting that someone insured the building at way more than it was worth, then went out and recruited a number of young men to storm the building with AK-47s and kill people (mostly non-Muslims)? Could you provide some light on what you presume to be the command structure between the owner of the insurance policy and the young men that survivors witnessed killing shoppers? |
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Post by jakaswanga on Oct 4, 2013 22:59:40 GMT 3
FAMOUS QUOTES from the Westgate attack by Joseph Ole Lenku (nominated by President Uhuru Kenyatta as Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government in May 2013): -"All the terrorists were men except about three women" - "We killed all the terrorists even though we... have not seen their bodies" -"No police officer looted anything from the Mall.All the goods had been removed by the terrorists by the time we arrived" - "That tunnel was guarded by the police and no one would pass through it.However,we suspect those who were arrested at the airport used it to escape" - "I can't confirm what I always say" -No terrorist escaped from the mall, but we arrested some of them at the airport - ''We're on the final assault. We want to confirm whether the attackers died or they are pretending. -we managed 2kill 3 to 5 terrorists bt we can't confirm hw many were killed by gun. - We're in control of all the floors. -It's only on the 2nd floor that we're facing Resistance. - We managed to kill all the 5 terrorists, they were 15 in number. from Georgina Goodwin I must admit I am a convert to the humour of this event. In the beginning I found it morbid, but I am told humour is also a method of coping with trauma. Well, the following ripped me, purportedly a communique from AL=shabaab. ---During a routine ambush on a convoy of KDF supplies from Kismayu port, we confiscated 10 truckloads of Nakumatt Westgate branded goods. Because they had no valid vouchers, we suspect they could be looted from the said Mall. We are ready to work with the Kenyan red cross to make sure the goods, if irregularly obtained by the KDF, are returned to their lawful owners! |
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on Sunday and set fire to its mattresses]-- was actually looted clean before the arson!
. That is if the sweep is clean 
, meticulous and thorough. And if you are a commando brigade, that is what it will be, if the mission is to be accomplished.
on them. There is something called class solidarity. These rich, isolated and socially insulated goons have not complained as the Mpigs and the political elite LOOT THE NATIONAL TREASURY, and now they are ready to fry the KDF for looting I-Pads while saving their lives? ---I wont take it! That is when I would rather the KDF showed its real horrible face, and taken those rich exotic wives for some serious multicultural entertainment of the barrackbang type!
