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Post by b6k on May 28, 2014 21:36:17 GMT 3
You despair easy Otishotish. Think of the darkest days of slavery in the Caribbean farms. The slaves who held hope for a better tomorrow, dreaming the freedom dreams. What would you have been like, Otish, a neurotic suicide case? or the Whitemaster will be boss forever house negro? or the marons preferring to take their chances out in the jungle as run-aways? coming back to try recruit for guerrilla acts? You despair too easy, amigo. In the struggle, there are periods of defeat, dispersal and even rout, and then we re-visit hope as we tell the tales of men like Spartacus, Zumba of Palmaresh, fellas whose names re-lit the torch of liberation from bondage, and let it shine in the darkest hour of oppression. Paying a heavy price, but keeping our dream alive, passing on the dream silently from mind to mind, parent to child, until free at last shall be bayed by mankind in unison. Do not be a non believer who fell by the road side! Have faith in the african, have faith brother! Jakaswanga: I like the idea---that Africans should consider themselves slaves who will one day be liberated. I won't ask "whose slaves?", but I am happy to note that there has been a First Liberation, a Second Liberation, ... one day there will be a Liberation that really liberates. What would I have? I believe that the African is fully capable of doing much better than he has so far done for himself. Right now, not in some remote, fuzzy future. That is why, for example, I wondered whether people can make a better effort to learn from history and then work to apply whatever they learn. But that was before I learned that learning occurs at its own pace and in its own way. "Fuzzy future"? Let's hope that's not a slight to the naturally fuzzy hair of your former people? But, I digress. Allow me to share with you some interesting forecasts done by your favourite people, Los Gringos en Norteamerica. One of their military think tanks projects from current trends as follows (all things being equal without outside military interference): 1) If things continue the way they will, Africa is already lost to Kung Fu, as you call them. 2) By 2050, Africa will have a larger workforce than the mighty China (yes, Otishotish, it's all about making babies and the Chinese shot themselves in the foot with the one child policy). 3) China may be positioning itself in a way to exploit the said labour force. It's not just about raw materials as many believe. 4) By around 2010 there were already more Chinese migrants into Africa in a decade than wazungu westerners ever managed in the 400 years since they arrived on our shores! WTF?!! So for those who have eyes and ears, it's clear to see why Africa will be the economic battleground to have spheres of influence in the 21st century. Now unless you have spawned a few million mulattos in your adoptive country, I suggest you watch this space and see how "fuzzy" maths will translate into a global tyranny of numbers... |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 8, 2014 6:19:33 GMT 3
b6k: Now, now ... that won't do. You really must put more effort into it: you left out "Uncle Tom", "House N*gger", etc. Actually, I did not. Jakaswanga already pointed out the options available to you which you somehow glossed over. Let me quote him for you again, as comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point: 1) A neurotic suicide case 2) A house negro (aka the House N*gger you spout about) 3) A maron, guerilla in the wilderness. So, pray tell, which description best fits your worldview of your former African brethren Otishotish? Truth be told, I tend to think Jakaswanga put an "a" where an "o" ought to be in the word maron... Which description fits? Is it just me, or do those seem to be slightly "unfriendly" options? Let me think about it. But in the meantime how about this: (a) Pick whichever of your options you are happy with, for "working purposes". I will go with that; so we need not bring it up every day. (b) We then look at " Africa is rising and the 21st century belongs to Africa, because folks there are reproducing like nobody's business". (I take that to be the essence of your other "post", and, in my view, it is as far from reality as you and I are to Jupiter.) So! Would it be possible to discuss (b) without Oreos, Ambi, etc.? [See (a)] Love, peace, and unity? |
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Post by b6k on Jun 8, 2014 16:56:20 GMT 3
Which description fits? Is it just me, or do those seem to be slightly "unfriendly" options? Let me think about it. But in the meantime how about this: (a) Pick whichever of your options you are happy with, for "working purposes". I will go with that; so we need not bring it up every day. (b) We then look at " Africa is rising and the 21st century belongs to Africa, because folks there are reproducing like nobody's business". (I take that to be the essence of your other "post", and, in my view, it is as far from reality as you and I are to Jupiter.) So! Would it be possible to discuss (b) without Oreos, Ambi, etc.? [See (a)] Love, peace, and unity? Old Jakaswanga was most astute to provide descriptions that best describe your Afro pessimist view on things. Can we therefore settle for "all the above"? As for Ambi, Oreos, and any other cookies crumbling, pray tell how can we ignore them as they set the foundation of your Afro pessimist mindset? Where you see filth, pestilence, & death I see untapped, raw, markets. What is it the South Koreans called it? "Primitive energy"? A casual foray through a thesaurus would've saved them the backlash they got from that unfortunate media campaign for their national airline. No, Otishotish, if you look at KE at least we are no longer "reproducing like nobody's business". A couple of decades ago our growth rate was a whopping 4.5 kids per childbearing woman. We are now down to a healthy and respectable 2.7. Any population needs to be at least 2.1 to be self sustaining. Anything less than that and you get aging (and dying) populations as you have in most of Europe that require "padding" from imports, much like yourself, just to keep the economy running. Have we cracked the leadership question yet? Not quite. But where you see hopelessness, I see hope... Now how about a glass of milk to dunk those cookies in? |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 8, 2014 19:27:53 GMT 3
Old Jakaswanga was most astute to provide descriptions that best describe your Afro pessimist view on things. Can we therefore settle for "all the above"? I'm OK with that, if it makes you happy. Are we now done with shooting the messenger? We need to get back to the message, unhappy though you might find it. But, first, let us consider your latest contribution. (The source is unimportant, we may simply accept the "facts" as given and consider their implications.) And this is good for Africa in what way? It's very funny to read of a whole continent being lost to some country. It's as though we are talking about farm animals and not human beings who can think and chart their own destiny. First, in this case I would distinguish between a population and a "workforce". In Kenya, for example, unemployment appears to be over 40%. How all those idlers constitute any part of a "workforce" is far from clear; so I would not include them in any bragging about numbers. Second, the productivity of a workforce also matters; it is not just its size. Consider, for example, all the jua -kali artisans in Kenya. How long does it take a Chinese factory with a smaller number of employees to knock off as many similar products as the artisans make in one year? Third, the Chinese, and anyone else who wants really cheap labour, have other alternatives beyond Africa. Please provide some more details about this "may". China will certainly continue to get Africans to dig stuff out of the ground and send it to China, but beyond that? (By the way, "exploit" is very appropriate word for what the Chinese are doing.) And here's a question: Keeping in mind the sort of unemployment figures that Kenya, one of the "better run" African countries, why are African countries not making use of that "labour force", even as they wait for the Chinese to position themselves to exploit it? That is interesting, but I note that you have omitted to explain exactly how that is good for Africa. As for what you consider to be a small number of wazungus over 400 years, again I would look beyond numbers and consider the effect that they had; I think we all know that. (What was that about tyranny of numbers?) First it was the wazungus. Now it will be the Chinese. After that? More Africa rising? Elsewhere, Jakaswanga has this to say: Economic battleground, eh? We are already well into the 21st, about 15 years in. Africa's share of the global trade is about 3%, and 15 years ago it was about 2%. It's hard to see an economic battleground there. One thing that could have a significant impact would be a major shift from exporting raw materials to exporting "value-added" things. But, the huge labour force you talk about is not doing much of that. Another thing that could have a significant impact would be in African countries moved to take advantage of rising labour costs in China. Many countries that moved manufacturing operations to China are now moving elsewhere; even the Chinese themselves are doing a bit of moving. Where are they going? Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, etc. African countries, on the other hand, seem very happy with borrowing money and sending raw materials. (It was astonishing to see so many Kenyans go into a mass orgasm over a few loans from China.)
My adoptive country is not worried, given that it is already getting its share of the African workforce, as are other similar countries, but with a preference for quality over quantity: Young, well-educated Africans, with professionals skills are very welcome to move here, and there appears to be no shortage of interested ones. Priority for people in engineering, IT, nursing, etc.
I noted your comment about "hope". To go with that, I thought we'd get some good, heart-warming stories of how Africa is lifting itself up. Instead, here you are---excitedly jumping up and down about how the Chinese will soon own Africa. Very odd. Africa rising. |
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Post by b6k on Jun 9, 2014 3:46:14 GMT 3
Otishotish, if the message is fundamentally flawed and reflecting the fatally flawed mindset of its "messenger" then the little one can say will always have an element of shooting the messenger. As Jakaswanga would muse, the messenger would surely deserve a bullet from the sniper, B6k.
As you are asking for a link, I suggest you get yourself a copy of "Hidden Dragon, Crouching Lion: How China's Advance in Africa is Underestimated and Africa's Potential Underappreciated" by US military analyst, David E Brown before we "discuss" any further.It's readily available online and is an eye opener as to why Africa in many ways is the final frontier once all the Chinas, Vietnams, and Thailands are given the once over.
A couple of spoilers since the majority of Jukwaaists will not seek or even read the US military monograph. Brown does discuss the 3% that constitutes Africa's contribution to global economy you allude to. In fact in one of his recommendations he expounds that this view, that Africa is a mere 3% of available markets has caused the developed world to overlook the "crouching lion". This is when he recommended that POTUS should visit Africa with heftier business delegations in tow, something that's not been done in over a decade according to him.
Coming to think of it, even the likes of Coca Cola have similar 3% values to their marketshare pegged on Africa but they overlook the fact that in a continent that lacks steady supplies of potable water they should be pushing for their product to be a source of life, global cut and paste ad campaigns of "have a Coke & a smile" be damned. "Coke is life!" should be their motto in Africa.
But I digress. Another of Brown's recommendations is that the POTUS should hold biannual meetings with African heads of state in Washington DC. Lo & behold did you note the recent memo that President Uhuru "Essential Contact Only" Kenyatta has been invited to the US in August for the first such talks with Obama? When the west begins aping the Chinese, that is, it becomes reactionary as opposed to a trend setter then indeed the game is up.
Otishotish, the great dragon has awakened from its 400 year slumber. Having the west as a global leader was an anomaly since before Britannia ruled the seas China and India had the world's largest economies. Just a blip in history. Will China own Africa? I think not*, but it will influence it in unforseen ways. At least on face value China is advocating a more symbiotic style of dealing with Africa, not the master vs servant type the west has fronted. A " kinder, gentler" economic order not a New World Order. No lectures on human rights, good governance or homosexuality. No Trojan Horse leaders imposed after 3 month sabbaticals in "New Rome". Just stone cold trade. Will there be a junior partner? Absolutely! But things will never be the same again...
Now read up and revert with more Afro pessimism if symptoms persist even after a dose of Brown.
*caveat: of course if a nation is as reckless enough as Angola to allow over 250,000 Chinese into its borders then it deserves to be owned!
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 9, 2014 5:09:20 GMT 3
b6k:
I am never particularly bothered by pot-shots being taken at the messenger, and I realize that the pointing out of certain facts might cause some pain and that people in pain will sometimes lash out. But some things must be said, without unhelpful sugar, and I try to do my bit in that regard. (I know I will get my reward in heaven.) Besides, reality is a biatch that will not be changed by flowery messages or the deaths of random messengers. So, by all means, let the bullets fly, if you feel they must, but let's avoid them becoming too much of a distraction.
I will get that Brown report and read it later this week. But even before I do that, I have a couple of quick ones:
You write that
Given the once over by whom? Final frontier for whom? And to what end? So, the "whom" is going around the world, for this and that, and once he/she/it have had its fill, it will be Africa's turn? By the way, don't forget that there's also South America to go; so it could be a very long haul before it's Africa's turn.
Is it possible for Africa to get on with it, rather than wait to become somebody's final frontier?
This is a "remarkable" point. Perhaps even "staggering". And this is after "coming to think of it"?
The lack of sufficient clean water is a huge problem in Africa. It leads directly to many easily preventable diseases that, among other things, are a leading cause of deaths in infants.
One would have expected that one sign of Africa Rising would be some indication that this problem was being tackled in every way possible, by Africans in Africa. Instead, and somewhat surprisingly, we find ourselves running around in Atlanta and lambasting dim-witted executives at Coca Cola for failing to see and exploit this aspect of Misery on the Final Frontier
Don't drink your crappy African water; it will kill you! Have a coke and a smile! Coke is life!
Nice. Yes, Africa is rising, and it's a real shame that too many can't see the opportunities to make a killing. Not to worry, though; they will get there after all others have been given the once-over. (Whether Africans themselves can see the "opportunities" in this "source of life" business is something we can consider after we get done with Coca Cola.)
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Post by b6k on Jun 10, 2014 22:59:54 GMT 3
I will get that Brown report and read it later this week. Read the darned report and revert... |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 10, 2014 23:05:22 GMT 3
I will get that Brown report and read it later this week. Read the darned report and revert... Revert? 8 - 4 - 4 = 0 |
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Post by b6k on Jun 10, 2014 23:22:51 GMT 3
Read the darned report and revert... Revert? 8 - 4 - 4 = 0 Hmmm? Just which century's English do you refer to? Revert has been around since the early 14th century, and it has changed little in meaning from the original "turn back" and "return." You can revert to a simpler way of life or revert to bad behavior. Software users might revert to an older version of a program with fewer bugs. Though rare in modern use, some international English speakers do use "revert back" for "reply" in writing and e-mail, but most of the time, using revert with "back" is redundant, or repetitive. Otishotish, are you international or saba saba ready? |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 10, 2014 23:31:09 GMT 3
Revert has been around since the early 14th century, and it has changed little in meaning from the original " turn back" and " return." Yes, the most-accepted meaning of the word is " return to a previous state, condition, practice, etc.". (A bit more than just "return" ... ) So, what should I revert to? (That is not stated in what you wrote.) Why? And how would reading the report help in the reversion? |
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Post by b6k on Jun 10, 2014 23:45:43 GMT 3
Revert has been around since the early 14th century, and it has changed little in meaning from the original " turn back" and " return." Yes, the most-accepted meaning of the word is " return to a previous state, condition, practice, etc.". So, what should I revert to? (That is not stated in what you wrote.) Why? And how would reading the report help in the reversion? Forgive me for assuming you could read AND comprehend the English language when it was written: "Though rare in modern use, some international English speakers do use "revert back" for "reply" in writing and e-mail, but most of the time, using revert with "back" is redundant, or repetitive". The inference was you ought to have been able to remove the "back" from "revert back" and know that I was simply asking you to revert by email once you've read up on the homework I assigned you. |
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Post by b6k on Jun 10, 2014 23:51:27 GMT 3
This system was after my time and in addition to that I studied outside of KE in a western (not Kenya) setting. Possibly in the land of your mzungu spouse... |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 11, 2014 0:06:18 GMT 3
Yes, the most-accepted meaning of the word is " return to a previous state, condition, practice, etc.". So, what should I revert to? (That is not stated in what you wrote.) Why? And how would reading the report help in the reversion? Forgive me for assuming you could read AND comprehend the English language when it was written: "Though rare in modern use, some international English speakers do use "revert back" for "reply" in writing and e-mail, but most of the time, using revert with "back" is redundant, or repetitive". The inference was you ought to have been able to remove the "back" from "revert back" and know that I was simply asking you to revert by email once you've read up on the homework I assigned you.
There are people who---in the mistaken belief that they are being fancy or formal---use "revert" in very peculiar ways. The proper meaning of the word is, generally, as I have given above; and you will, I hope, have noted the parenthetical remark that it is a bit more that just "return".
I do not have the slightest idea of what "revert by email ..." could possibly mean, although I can clearly see that it consists of certain English words. Perhaps you meant no more than that I should "get back to you", or "respond", "or "reply" ... ?
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Post by b6k on Jun 11, 2014 0:23:17 GMT 3
Perhaps you meant no more than that I should "get back to you", or "respond", "or "reply" ... ? [/p]
[/quote] Yes, suh! |
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