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Post by b6k on Feb 6, 2014 7:49:34 GMT 3
Folks live on Citizen Breakfast is one David Matsanga. He has been dismissed as a bellicose lout who wants to be on UK's payroll yet it seems he's having the last laugh on all things ICC. He saw the ICC for the shallow institution that it was when he dealt with Ocampo on Uganda issues well before PEV. He warned Kenyans about the court from day one, let alone the August or December 2013 timelines others erroneously post as when signs started appearing of a possible collapse of the case(s). This one man crusade against the ICC has been a thorn in the OTP's side for quite some time now. Unlike Otishotish who admits (albeit in other blogs) that he has written unsolicited missives to the ICC, David Matsanga has done so and received responses from the court. If memory serves, Matsanga was once even summoned to The Hague to be censured until the court realized, to its chagrin, that his allegations against witness #4 were actually true! The rest as they say is history... As the case against Uhuru approaches its "logical conclusion", here is Matsanga's latest unsolicited advice to the OTP titled "Terminate Under Article 53 Or Face Perjury Charges Under Article 70 Of The Same Statute That Was Violated By The OTP" : africaworldmedia.com/terminate_under_article_53.htmlOn Citizen he is claiming all UK's defence need to do is subpoena his case with the ICC when they attempted to censure him & enjoin his evidence with the UK case. End of days? Time will tell...
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 6, 2014 18:10:04 GMT 3
www.africanewspost.com/2013/10/who-is-dr-david-matsanga.html Who is Dr David Matsanga?Monday, 14 October 2013 DAVID Nyekorach Matsanga is a man who changes with the tide. The 54-year-old born in Bududa, then part of Mbale district, fled Uganda in 1986 after President Yoweri Museveni came to power. For the last 12 years he has been an on-and-off spokesman of LRA leader Joseph Kony. During this time he was a diehard LRA apologist and a rabid critic of the NRM Government. Matsanga went to Shikhuyu Primary School before going to Manjasi High School in 1973. According to Alfred Musamali, an old boy of Manjasi High School, Matsanga's father is the late Makuyi Wamema, a former employee of Budada Secondary School. Matsanga's clan name is Wamema. He became Matsanga as a result of the 1970s tradition requiring anybody seeking to repeat P7 to do so under a different name. When he was registering for S4 exams in 1976, he added the name Nyekorach, Musamali says, adding that he failed his O level exams. Matsanga claims he has a masters degree in Political Sciences and a Phd in Psychology. However, it is not clear if he sat his A level examinations. Colleagues who have been with Matsanga know him as a man who is quick at sniffing opportunities. When Idi Amin was overthrown in 1979, he embraced the new rulers the UNLA Government. He eventually joined the UPC youth wing and the intelligence service, then called National Security Agency. Around 1983 he was arrested after being suspected of having killed a person during a brawl in a Mbale bar. He remained in detention until the Obote government fell in 1985. Upon release from jail, he tried to start a business in his home area, Bududa. He soon got involved with rebels, attempting to overthrow the Government of Museveni in the late 1980s. He was the local guide who led ex-army chief-of-staff Opon Acak when the army ambushed them near Bududa Hospital in the late 1980s. Acak was arrested and Matsanga fled into exile in the UK. While in London, Matsanga disagreed with Obote supporters such as Joseph Ochieno, creating a gap between him and the UPC members in the diaspora. In a twist of events, he became the official spokesman of the LRA in early 1998. He later explained that he had wanted to turn the LRA rebels into a liberation front to rescue Uganda. However, I found that LRA had already sinned beyond repair and my efforts were not successful, he stated at a press conference in February 2000 when he publicly apologised to Ugandans for his role in the rebel ranks. Surprisingly, he was brought back as LRA chief mediator by Kony in early 2008. But he was dropped when the LRA leader failed to turn up for the highly publicised signing ceremony in Ri-Kwangba on April 10. He later insisted that he resigned to pave way for investigations. Press reports at the time said he had been arrested by Southern Sudanese authorities at Juba airport with $20,000. Matsanga is also a man who does not take chances with his life. While in Juba, he reportedly carried a poison detector to meetings, which he used to check food and drinks served to him. Before he was appointed LRA negotiator, Matsanga was a public relations consultant to Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe. Based in the UK then, he was credited for boosting Mugabe's image internationally, especially after his re-election in 2002, through his research outfit called Africa Strategy. Matsanga, however, fell out with Mugabe after he was allegedly tortured in Harare. - www.newvision.co.ug
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 6, 2014 20:31:27 GMT 3
I want to go back to this German Judge, the one we called Herr. Prof. Dr. He looked at the evidence and, in his dissenting piece, thought it was not sufficient to sustain the charge of crimes against humanity. Then some Belgian lady Judge would leave, and last week, the Oga Chifo Eboe followed her, citing a full agenda. These last two, in the light of what has happened lately, appear to me to be disingenuous. Not giving the real reasons they are quitting. That I am too busy crap is just that crap.
Now we know where the better legal minds are trained! Unless of course it is a question of who needed money most, so that Eboe had to stick longest because extended family in Africa can be very expensive! ---he needed every dollar, even as he knew better!
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Post by mank on Feb 6, 2014 21:47:44 GMT 3
I want to go back to this German Judge, the one we called Herr. Prof. Dr. He looked at the evidence and, in his dissenting piece, thought it was not sufficient to sustain the charge of crimes against humanity. Then some Belgian lady Judge would leave, and last week, the Oga Chifo Eboe followed her, citing a full agenda. These last two, in the light of what has happened lately, appear to me to be disingenuous. Not giving the real reasons they are quitting. That I am too busy crap is just that crap. Now we know where the better legal minds are trained! Unless of course it is a question of who needed money most, so that Eboe had to stick longest because extended family in Africa can be very expensive! ---he needed every dollar, even as he knew better! Amigo, I think initially all these "learned friends" were tricked by that "learned friend" from Argentina. Even the German was with them on the evidence but he was weighing the implications of such evidence against the broad global context - for the rest it was sufficient to demonstrate something to the world (to use some loose version of the Argentinian's declared mission). But I am sure every learned amigo has seen this case for what it was, after all the "witness briberies and deaths. .... and noncooperation." I was just thinking how awkward things would have been if the defense did not already know the character of the pivotal "witnesses" ... then people watching from outside and seeing the bluff (like I saw that of #4) would still be stuck with the reality of the court being defrauded. I really think ICC is no match for its mandated tasks - its kind of cases call for a certain awareness of the social politics at play, that would necessitate legal eyes that are reflective of the society in which a case is set. It could improve its potential by constituting its staff around each case with expertise from the affected country (careful though!).
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Post by b6k on Feb 6, 2014 23:22:12 GMT 3
OO, seeing that you posted an article about Matsanga that I believe Omwenga would characterize as an ad hominem attack that didn't make an effort to address Matsanga's hypothesis, allow me to post message to Bensouda in full below. Maybe seeing his argument on the same page will encourage rebuttals at the very least... TERMINATE UNDER ARTICLE 53 OR FACE PERJURY CHARGES UNDER ARTICLE 70 OF THE SAME STATUTE THAT WAS VIOLATED BY OTP 4TH FEBRUARY 2014 12HRS GMT. Africa world Media together with all her sister organizations that have been at the forefront in exposing the flawed and bungled Kenyan cases wishes to make the following statement regarding the ICC status conference on Uhuru Kenyatta: 1. The ICC chief Prosecutor has reached a pinnacle of insanity on the Kenyan cases which were bungled and flawed by the same OTP right from the start. It is very disheartening for the Chief Prosecutor to tell the world that after spending over 200 million dollars of international taxi payer’s money on flawed investigations and procured witnesses she still wants 3 more months to squander time and money looking for new Mungiki outlawed liars and fake witnesses to present to the same trial court of ICC. 2. It is equally annoying, reckless, prudish, sardonic, repugnant and morally bankrupt for the ICC Chief Prosecutor to bring sideshows in serious case of President Uhuru Kenyatta which was fabricated and joined in carpenter’s shop in River Road in Nairobi that has destroyed the lives of both suspects and victims of 2007-2008 PEV. Some of us who have followed the insides of OTP know very well that it was her who designed, pieced, and framed President Uhuru Kenyatta when she was the Deputy Chief Prosecutor of ICC. 3. It is shocking that after 3 years in Office as the Chief Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda has follow the same footprints or footsteps of Luis Moreno Ocampo without correcting the wrongs that her predecessor did as the then Chief Prosecutor of ICC. Fatou Bensouda knows the consequences of violating Article 70 of the Rome Statute when one commits perjury , perversion of course of Justice and obstruction of justice which were done by her OTP under her stewardship as the Chief Prosecutor. 4. When did she know that the cases had no evidence was it when she took over or after she settled in office? Why did she lie to the court that Mungiki were credible witnesses yet she knew they were a bunch or liars out to make money? Did she know that they were outlawed as a terrorist group in the world? And many other questions that linger in people’s minds whenever you discuss Kenyan cases. 5. The entire world must know that there are 2 applications filed by me that are pending before the Appeal Chamber 5 for the same crimes her office(OTP) committed during and after investigations of both Kenyan cases. These two applications are the roadblock to Fatou Bensouda’s cases. It is not the Kenya Government that failed her as she alleges or any other forces that might pretend to have an input in these cases. The reality has sunk that Mungiki an outlawed organization which was the bank for OTP witnesses have been blocked by my applications that are before the ICC court. The reservoir has dried up. There are no more witnesses like Maina Kabutu who can lie and Fatou has failed to arrest them. 6. The procurement of witnesses like tomatoes in the market, coaching of witnesses , faking of witnesses, the use of intermediaries in collection of data against political opponents , the use of NGOs like USAID – KENYA whose evidence I have filed in court are the biggest worries of Fatou Bensouda. The case of Deputy President William Ruto and Arap Sang where ICC agents like Mr. Walter Barasa was used by ICC investigators to buy witnesses is very serious under international law. 7. While these events are reshaping and becoming clearer and clearer that the people who are now before the ICC are not the real suspects but victims of insanity of international conspiracy theories against Africa, it has emerged that some people in Kenya and sycophants of OTP (merchants of confusion) are telling some us whose names have been tainted for speaking the truth since 2008 to go slow on ICC Chief Prosecutor. Let me sound a warning that as long as the cases of the three Kenyans are not halted and fresh investigations are conducted, some of will not rest until proper justice is got for both suspects and victims of 2007- 2008. 8. The Government of Kenya must operationalize the Special division of the High court that deals with international crimes before this woman returns harvest more Kenyans to this OTP that has terrible record of misery as far investigations are concerned. Those in Kenya who can listen must act now to avoid that scenario from being real. These cases will crumble on case by case basis because the merits and demerits are not the same. To avoid confusion among the people of Kenya the government must as matter of priority show some positive strategy of redemption by preventing any future Ocampos landing by night to take more Kenyans to The Hague on fake evidence. 9. As we eagerly wait for the outcome of the cases it is important for me to note and tell the world that I don’t hate the ICC but I hate and loathe the OTP which did shoddy investigations which is line with the AU letter that I saw in Addis Ababa. The wind of hope will only come when the President of ICC orders for Independent Panel to look into the activities of OTP in regard to Kenyan cases that were bungled. Accountability must be there. Someone must own up for the mess that was created by flawed investigations. Thanks Dr. David Nyekorach- Matsanga Chairman / CEO +447930901252 London +254723312564 – Kenya africastrategy@hotmail.com dr.davidmatsanga@yahoo.com www.africaworldmedia.com
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Post by b6k on Feb 6, 2014 23:36:52 GMT 3
...& here is the interview that was broadcast earlier today (Thursday) on Citizen's Breakfast show:
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 7, 2014 8:07:42 GMT 3
B6K,
Give him credit, Matsanga figured out this thing several years ago. He, without a doubt, totally understood the inner-workings of the ICC before many of us could know what a mirage we were being set to chase. On Jukwaa Mank was hawk-eyed too and said/wrote just as much. It will be interesting to see how how the court deals with AG Githu next week; they will have to jail him, I think.
~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by mank on Feb 7, 2014 9:27:47 GMT 3
B6K,Give him credit, Matsanga figured out this thing several years ago. He, without a doubt, totally understood the inner-workings of the ICC before many of us could know what a mirage we were being set to chase. On Jukwaa Mank was hawk-eyed too and said/wrote just as much. It will be interesting to see how how the court deals with AG Githu next week; they will have to jail him, I think. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ Give it to Matsanga! We need a few clones of him. I cannot comprehend how people who claim to be seekers of truth can be so intent on making a nuisance of the multitude of well researched, well thought observations that he voices. He challenges whoever wishes to take him on with the facts, but instead these people seek to tear his observations apart only by condemning his personality - the loud mouth on him. Incidentally it is that very loud mouth that we need on someone who stands for truth, because incidentally in our society it does not matter what someone knows as long as it is not said loudly in public and persistently enough. I am particularly surprised by OO's posting in this thread. What does it really matter who Matsanga is, that we should not care what he says on a topic as important as this of the cases at the ICC, and at such a crucial time of the cases? Can't we separate personalities from issues? Matsanga could even be a murderer himself but in what he brings to light that should not matter. His personality may be an interesting subject of conversation but it should not be the reason for us on Jukwaa not to give a thought to the issues that he points. I reason that if those observations were disputable then effort would not be wasted on the guy's character - that's really an unfortunate factual statement about some biases that are at the surface here at Jukwaa. We used to pride in being about issues ... I think we sacrifice too much of that pride when it comes to certain issues. For me Mwalimu, I became alarmed the moment I heard the lies of fraudulent witness # 4. He happened to claim something that would not happen in the context he claimed it happened, and that's a context I relate with very intimately. Before this, I had no doubt that the prosecution had dug crap about our big boys ... after all we have always known our big boys to dump it on is without fear or care. But when I realized that they knew they were pushing lies, I changed heart. Incidentally OO knew this # 4. He held back info, as we were all gagged for the sake of the cases. I hope one day OO will spill this info here for us. I sense though that we caught wind of all that matters - I am just curious as to whether OO would confirm the same, or if it caught him by surprise.
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Post by kamalet on Feb 7, 2014 10:57:33 GMT 3
Matsanga's criticism of the OTP seems justified. And it would appear that staff in Bensouda's office were prepared to carry on with the charade until a certain Mr. Gumpert arrived on the scene and things started changing! Please see this quote from Uhuru's lawyer Mr. Kay on this matter:
"They have been able to obtain documents. We have seen the vast amount of disclosure they have produced. They have been throughout the media archives, but their investigation was not an investigation for the truth. It wasn't an Article 54 investigation until, if I may say so, Mr Gumpert arrived on the scene. He was plainly troubled by the inconsistencies within the evidence of Witness OTP 12."
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Post by bkichwa on Feb 7, 2014 18:59:39 GMT 3
B6K,Give him credit, Matsanga figured out this thing several years ago. He, without a doubt, totally understood the inner-workings of the ICC before many of us could know what a mirage we were being set to chase. On Jukwaa Mank was hawk-eyed too and said/wrote just as much. It will be interesting to see how how the court deals with AG Githu next week; they will have to jail him, I think. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ Give it to Matsanga! We need a few clones of him. I cannot comprehend how people who claim to be seekers of truth can be so intent on making a nuisance of the multitude of well researched, well thought observations that he voices. He challenges whoever wishes to take him on with the facts, but instead these people seek to tear his observations apart only by condemnation of his character - the loud mouth on him. Incidentally it is that very loud mouth that we need on someone who stands for truth, because incidentally in our society it does not matter what someone knows as long as it is not said loudly in public and persistently enough. I am particularly surprised by OO's posting in this thread. What does it really matter who Matsanga is, that we should not care what he says on a topic as important as this of the cases at the ICC, and at such a crucial time of the cases? Can't we separate personalities from issues? Matsanga could even be a murderer himself but in what he brings to light that should not matter. His personality may be an interesting subject of conversation but it should not be the reason for us on Jukwaa not to give a thought to the issues that he points. I reason that if those observations were disputable then no effort would be wasted on the guy's character - that's really an unfortunate fact about some biases that are at the surface here at Jukwaa. We used to pride in being about issues ... I think we sacrifice too much of that pride when it comes to certain issues. For me Mwalimu, I became alarmed the moment I heard the lies of fraudulent witness # 4. He happened to claim something that would not happen in the context he claimed it happened, and that's a context I relate with very intimately. Before this, I had no doubt that the prosecution had dug crap about our big boys ... after all we have always known our big boys to dump it on is without fear or care. But when I realized that they knew they were pushing lies, I changed heart. Incidentally OO knew this # 4. He held back info, as we were all gagged for the sake of the cases. I hope one day OO will spill this info here for us. I sense though that we caught wind of all that matters - I am just curious as to whether OO would confirm the same, or if it caught him by surprise. Mank, Some people are quietly depressed and gnashing their teeth regarding the developments at the ICC i.e. the imminent collapse of UK's case, and the weak case that is Ruto's (implication here being that it's just a matter of time before this case as well ends with Bensouda and team being the losers). It was never planned to go this way. Big plans and dreams by said people (they know themselves) had been vested upon the political charade that has been the Kenya ICC case. Hopefully they have learned their lesson. Unfortunately and very sadly though, this whole opportunistic political game has come at a huge cost, i.e. real justice for the PEV victims.
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Post by mank on Feb 7, 2014 20:07:17 GMT 3
Mank, Some people are quietly depressed and gnashing their teeth regarding the developments at the ICC i.e. the imminent collapse of UK's case, and the weak case that is Ruto's (implication here being that it's just a matter of time before this case as well ends with Bensouda and team being the losers). ... BKichwa, Your comments bring back memories of the early days of my membership at Jukwaa. That was during and shortly after PEV. It always felt that some among us were privy to some grand plan going on somewhere ... It was never planned to go this way. Big plans and dreams by said people (they know themselves) had been vested upon the political charade that has been the Kenya ICC case. ... And if you look back you will notice that Jukwaa got informed of the identities of Ocampo 6 before the rest of the public ... . My point might be that we are a very special citizenry, now you see?
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Post by b6k on Feb 7, 2014 20:47:31 GMT 3
Indeed, Mwalimumkuu, Matsanga warned us about the court & Mank called it, down to his prophecy that the UK case would commence in February 2014. He called that right even before Bensouda dropped the bombshell that even February was way too soon for the "watertight" case.
Sadly a lot of us had placed all our hopes in The Hague. For once it seemed that the untouchables amongst us were finally going to be tackled without fear or favour. I for one was quite disgusted by those prayer sessions that the Dynamic Duo held across the country. I made no secret of my hope that WSR would be nailed by the ICC.
As Mank has rightfully stated, if the cases were about truth & justice would it be morally justified to try the wrong men? Within his interview, Matsanga was very clear that the trio that are currently before the court were not in the original envelope that Waki presented to Anan (I find it hard to believe but having never seen the list how can I interrogate the Matsanga angle). What we need to ask is what was civil society's role in tweaking the list of names & presenting the original Ocampo 6? As for the "academies", their shoddy work has been clear at least in the open sessions of the court.
Our admin, OO is a political activist with ties to civil society. Might that explain his curious post that attacked the character of Matsanga & failed to counter his claims? Where is Moonki Njakip Otishotish to provide us with his usual point by point "factual" rebuttals to Matsanga's missive above? Kamale has quoted Kay who referred to the trial by saying it was based on "falsity" after a certain narrative aimed at besmirching his client's name for political ends was accepted hook, line & sinker. Should the case(s) collapse, what are the odds of the scenario painted by Matsanga coming to fruition? Will Bensouda really jump on a plane and charge into KE to seek new suspects to be charged with crimes against humanity?
Bkichwa, I agree with you that there's gnashing of teeth taking place in a big way as the grand design collapses. As Jakaswanga noted, anyone who cared to understand what the sober German judge was stating would've foreseen it coming to this. Tick, tock...
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Post by mank on Feb 7, 2014 23:01:03 GMT 3
Oh yes ... where is amigo Njakip? By now he should be very disappointed with Prof. Mutua. Two years ago he was in defense of the professor when I felt the latter was playing malicious politics. The following link would take us to the discussion: ....From personal vantage point I have stated severally (that) I am confident that at least one of Ocampo's witnesses fabricated everything he told the prosecutor. If one was an absolute fabricator, is it possible that others were fabricators as well? And if someone was a fabricator, is it likely that s/he would recant his "witness evidence" on free will? ....... There are too many things that do not fall in place. We have to wait and get the full story. When we were in the above discussion I did not realize how important OTP4 was to the prosecution ... I only new he was an unrepentant liar. We waited, and now we know. And this one: All that the article says is that the jamaa was a witness in CIPEV. NO one says when he became Witness 4 and how he left the protection of Ocampo - unless he is sequestered in the US! Just too unbelievable! Am still banging my head on the wall about this. And Kamale I think you are being sarcastic when you say its "... interesting rubbish!". I wish you would spill your mind on the issue. A more complete version of the clip exists at According to this clip, the guy disavowed his witness evidence to CIPEV back in 2009. So how could he have been a witness in the ICC case in 2011? Either the clip is recorded at a later date than it alleges (I doubt you would find a notary public in the US to sanitize such mischief though), or this person's CIPEV testimony should not have been used in 2011. Is that the basis of the claim that the prosecutor committed perjury, or is Ocampo being accused of something even grander? Did Kabutu claim that someone imposed extra information on his signed testimony? Listen at minute marker 4.50 - 5.04.It will be interesting to see what OO has to say about issue and/or the man at the center of it. Never mind the fact that YouTube clip is not playing .... I trust we shall be hearing this again when the final part of Muthaura's prophesy comes to be ....."it will not be Muthaura tried ..... it will be the prosecution." The first part has already been. The second seems pretty likely.
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Post by b6k on Feb 8, 2014 3:15:41 GMT 3
Mank here is Louis Moreno Ocampo's interview on the Kenya ICC trails that was made in January 2014 by Radio Netherlands Worldwide. As a former chief prosecutor he can now be candid about the various challenges the OTP faced in investigating the Kenya situation. He discusses why Raila & Kibaki never made it to the suspect list & discloses another potential suspect who narrowly missed a summons from the ICC due to insufficient evidence. She should thank her lucky stars... Did the ICC trials have an impact on Kenya and make it the "Sweden" of Africa? What was his reaction to the Uhuruto election win? Read on below to find out more: www.rnw.nl/africa/article/ocampo-exclusive
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Post by mank on Feb 8, 2014 3:48:14 GMT 3
Mank here is Louis Moreno Ocampo's interview on the Kenya ICC trails that was made in January 2014 by Radio Netherlands Worldwide. As a former chief prosecutor he can now be candid about the various challenges the OTP faced in investigating the Kenya situation. He discusses why Raila & Kibaki never made it to the suspect list & discloses another potential suspect who narrowly missed a summons from the ICC due to insufficient evidence. She should thank her lucky stars... Did the ICC trials have an impact on Kenya and make it the "Sweden" of Africa? What was his reaction to the Uhuruto election win? Read on below to find out more: www.rnw.nl/africa/article/ocampo-exclusive B6K, I think he's right that the ICC case had a transformative effect on our electioneering process. But I don't buy for a second anything he's trying to sell in the sense of having had evidence against the people that have been paraded in the Hague. He seems to believe that he had a case, but as at this time I can swear he had nothing! THe man talks about evidence, but which? We have seen the witnesses for what they are. Too often you hear a witness talk about the use of proverbs at political meetings but too often you find they don't remember even the key things they are there to attest to .... they have to be reminded with some context. If something so powerful was said, would someone who actually heard it and then saw the fruit of it as violence come to forget it on the stand? I am talking of people who have been asked ".... did he say anything else?" And they say "... if he said anything more than that I do not recall." Then they are given a prompt and then wahla! They remember that Ruto said "stumps would be removed." ... and surprising it turns out such a statement would be the most significant of their evidence. ... some, almost all in fact, claim to have heard stuff but when pushed for details they come to say "... someone who was there told me ... I did not hear it myself." I do not even think the rheutoric they allege, if meant for what they allege, would have been a vote winning rheutoric ... and politicians are in the business of maximizing votes!The truth is if you look back into any of our campaign rallies you can find there were proverbs that can now be given any meaning poeople want to give them. I remember one mpig from my area who would throw phrases here and there using a moran code language, and by that he would win lots of favor especially from us, the young guys who had only previously learned the code. Lucky he, that nothing happened in our area ... I can see how those favor lures of his would have turned him the agitator ... that is even though he was actually saying nothing important. Our politicians have always said stuff that if the commoner took seriously then hell would have risen up ... but if you look at it properly it was just political rheutoric. There has been no evidence at all showing linking any of the 3 individually to real perpetration of violence ... there has been ample implicating other folks, and the preocupation of the prosecution has been about pulling threads to imply a command relationship between those folks and the suspects. To that end witness have been reduced to bearers of information that indeed the acuseds have been seen, or are know to relate well with those who clearly got involved in violence. This prosecution is ridiculous ... it could have started with the people who clearly participated in the violence, like the person who put fuel on the church, and then followed the evidence from there - ICC is for the big fish alright, but there would be nothing wrong with using small fish as a means if information is not available to go straight to the big fish. I suspect it is that they new there would not have been evidence connecting those criminals with the 3 suspects they had in court. I think the ICC cases have tamed the common person more than the politician ... we heard politicians, even Uhuru, uttering words that could have agitated unrest. But people have known that there is risk in such unrests. My initial intuition was that the violence begun because of the style ODM chose to contest the elections result. Infact I anticipated violence as soon as I realized that Kibaki was destined to win (honestly or dishonestly), when Raila was leading with just under 100k votes with 19 constituencies, mostly GEMA, left uncounted, and at the same time Musalia Mudavadi swearing on radio that Kenyans would not accept anyone but Raila. When Ocampo claimed that he had evidence agaist his 6, however, I contemplated that I could have been wrong ... then all of a sudden his bubble burst, as his witnesses started to reveal themselves. Yet the guy still lives in denial. There is no chance that Ocampo does not know what kind of evidence he was getting from OTP4 and 12. That was his evidence! A bunch of lies! I am tired of the lies that the cases are collapsing because of hinderance by the government .... the evidence upon which the cases were committed to trial is long evaporated from the mouths of its producers. And the racket by which that evidence was made up is now apparent. But even in his choice of misplaced optimisim about the evidence they had, he seems to aknowledge that UhuRuto were smart to notice when the ICC boat turned to be a political helper for them, upwards. He helped them politically.
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Post by b6k on Feb 8, 2014 7:35:54 GMT 3
...& here's the full interview on camera:
Note how he confirms that western diplomats approached him to see what he could do to make sure Uhuruto were not on the ballot! We're Uhuruto being railroaded for Raila to get a through pass into the presidency?
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Post by b6k on Feb 8, 2014 7:49:04 GMT 3
Mank, PEV was inevitable once ODM decided (a) the only result they would accept was a win, & (b) they would "make Kenya ungovernable" if they lost. Did PNU rig the result? Most likely. But as the Kriegler Commission showed ODM itself wasn't innocent in the rigging game at its strongholds.
Did the ICC tame our passions during the elections of 2013 thereby assuring us a relatively violence free poll? Most probably. That said I wonder if the collapse of the ICC case(s) will not lead us right back to politics as usual with machete laden politicians vehicles criss-crossing the nation once the stakes are high during the election period...
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Post by podp on Feb 8, 2014 18:35:23 GMT 3
Mank, PEV was inevitable once ODM decided (a) the only result they would accept was a win, & (b) they would "make Kenya ungovernable" if they lost. Did PNU rig the result? Most likely. But as the Kriegler Commission showed ODM itself wasn't innocent in the rigging game at its strongholds. Did the ICC tame our passions during the elections of 2013 thereby assuring us a relatively violence free poll? Most probably. That said I wonder if the collapse of the ICC case(s) will not lead us right back to politics as usual with machete laden politicians vehicles criss-crossing the nation once the stakes are high during the election period... red high light ICC did and still contributes positively to current status. we have those of us who strongly know and experience the impunity around us and how brazen it would have got were it not a combination of ICC and local efforts That human rights violations, economic crimes and impunity are alive and well in Kenya is not because there is a dearth of information on who committed or was responsible for these crimes against the people of Kenya. As the reports analysed above and other 48 reports indicate, what is lacking is a concerted systemic way of dealing with those responsible for the human rights violations and economic crimes. By collating in this report those named as responsible or requiring further investigation for various crimes in Kenya, KHRC aims to provide a mechanism for bridging the gap in knowledge and information and facilitating the process of investigation, prosecution and lustration. www.khrc.or.ke/component/docman/doc_details/29-lest-we-forget-the-faces-of-impunity-in-kenya.htmldevolution too has been a great contributor and hence the current Constitution doo adds weight to politics going local. Kenyans wanted managers in the counties, university degree holders divorced from the nonsense of politics — they got that and much more. They elected the next generation of leaders who will rescue the country from its backwardness in less than a generation. Looking at Kenya, it is obvious that the country will no longer be held hostage to the same political choices that have riven it with divisions in the past. On the basis of their competence alone, the governors are going far — they will all end up in State House — even if it is through the backdoor www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/-/440808/2196882/-/6dfqsuz/-/index.htmlabove all people are more enlightened on the DNA or our political class. mobile.nation.co.ke/news/The-hidden-forces-behind-violent-clashes-in-Mombasa/-/1950946/2197352/-/format/xhtml/-/136ftejz/-/index.htmlBesides, all the indications are that the political class infiltrated and subsequently destroyed the Mombasa Republican Council since it disappeared after last year’s General Election. The movement of course like the current one was based around grievances that were genuine but the politicians hijacked it for their own purposes and then discarded it after March 4 election. Is it any wonder that the youths have no trust in the political class either?
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Post by b6k on Feb 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT 3
Podp, if indeed Kenyans have learned that unbridled mass action has consequences then we may be headed in the right direction.
Below watch Matsanga take on civil society's Ken Wafula on Jeff Koinange Live. Unfortunately whoever uploaded the video looped it twice. Best to start watching at 28:28 mark. Sadly the last bit is also missing but you'll get the main gist...
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Post by podp on Feb 8, 2014 21:05:50 GMT 3
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Post by mank on Feb 9, 2014 4:46:16 GMT 3
Mank, PEV was inevitable once ODM decided (a) the only result they would accept was a win, & (b) they would "make Kenya ungovernable" if they lost. Did PNU rig the result? Most likely. But as the Kriegler Commission showed ODM itself wasn't innocent in the rigging game at its strongholds. Did the ICC tame our passions during the elections of 2013 thereby assuring us a relatively violence free poll? Most probably. That said I wonder if the collapse of the ICC case(s) will not lead us right back to politics as usual with machete laden politicians vehicles criss-crossing the nation once the stakes are high during the election period... You voice my mind on every one of those aspects, B6K.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 9, 2014 14:08:46 GMT 3
B6K, I think he's right that the ICC case had a transformative effect on our electioneering process. But I don't buy for a second anything he's trying to sell in the sense of having had evidence against the people that have been paraded in the Hague. He seems to believe that he had a case, but as at this time I can swear he had nothing! Mank, there is an important point to remember. The decision to go to full trial was not Ocampo’s. He could believe whatever he wanted, but it was the Judges in the pre-trial chamber who had to satisfisfy themselves that, before the standards of the law they were using, the evidence supplied by the OTP-Ocampo was sufficient to commit to full trial. It is therefore, to me, more a case of Judges whose assessment of facts.. evidence.. were inadequate, below par (or compromised?) ... Unless the threshold in question is so minimalist anything goes. ----But fair is to say we had dissenter judges right from the beginning. Mank, do you think the expulsion of Kikuyus from the RV was spontaneous? I am always intrigued by the possibility it was out of the blue just like that! How about facilitation? As a Kenyan I always thought this issue was too complex for part-time diplomats like Koffi Annan. It was also obvious that a lot of Kenyans had information which they would never reveal, because they understood life as it would be lived. And that Kenyans would seek to make money by fabricating lies to please the OTP? A foregone conclusion. What was not a foregone conclusion, was that the OTP would not have the capacity to vet and ferret out the lies from the beginning, such that some lies would only come out far into the trial. ---But not all recanting witnesses are doing so because they are liars though. I am also intrigued, hearing from Ocampo that Bensouda was there all along, why only this late the lady has been blowing the whistle!? where was her tenacity all the way back, to suspect some of these witnesses were selling her junk!? NB: In Naivasha and the expulsion of the Luos: there is the interesting detail of the imported Gikuyu-Mungikis. Because the l ocal gikuyu mboys were not ready to set upon their local Luos, given the intimate nature of the mixing in the flower business. Believe it or not Amigo, but in cosmopolitan working class Naivasha, just like you and me, the Highlands and the Lake were in-laws, and family was not about to kill family! Who facilitated the importation of the externals to do the job? Not much of a secret in Naivasha. But conclusive evidence or witnesses who would own up at the ICC? Never. Yes, but that is why you have smart people to reach the most logical conclusion out of set of myriad possibilities. Implausible stuff is shifted out. But amigo, you underestimate politicians and their audience. Communication is a highly pin-point subject when you have fellows in their cultural element. The unspoken which the audience understands completely can even be deadlier. Culture is too clever to be caught being openly barbaric with words. Even in genocide Rwanda nobody said kill all the Tutsis. It went things like … the cockroach plague … must be solved from the root … no insect must survive …. No egg in the nest!So in a court of law, a Canadian is going to tell a Hutu, that when he said the above he meant Tutsis? The Hutu looks back at the white Canadian, shrugs and asks part mockingly: so you are an expert in Kinyaruanda? Bad school you went to. W e do not call our neighbours insects, we know they are human and know their names! It is more for Whites to put down Africans thus! And people laugh, and the Canadian turns red in a court in Arusha! While the defence lawyer manages to harass the Canadian into an apology. No, cockroach does not mean Tutsi, spoken by a Hutu or not! But there are Tutsis in the courtroom. And the Africans in the room know, this court is a sham, and back at home, blood will have to beget blood for a semblance of justice. This why I love to refer to these International trials as pantomime. The real drama is elsewhere, not in the courtroom. And that is why I always insist, yes, pantomime carry on as it must, but the President of my country, legitimate or not, has more important things to do than attend pantomime sessions in foreign landsPolitical rhetoric is the mobilisation of consent. Re-enforcing a collective sense of belonging, single destiny, and community feeling. Once that consensus is established, an agitator of decided purpose can use it. That is, for example, definitely in the run to 2007 elections, a lot of Kalenjin politicians engaged in just ‘’political rhetoric’’, nothing to be worried about really. But they always re-enforced a sense of belonging, collective identity, history and place in the universe. They had nothing to do with PEV, but the collective identity re-enforced by mere rhetoric, sustained the mass participation in evicting Kikuyus. Because to evict ½ a million people in two weeks, needs a mobilised general purpose,understood by a significant majority, even if spontaneous!Otherwise others would immediately come up to stop the madness, saying: ‘’these are our neighbours of old. Are you crazy expelling them! Stop it now!’’ There has been no strong evidence tabled in court. And why would there be strong evidence available? It is not as if the people who facilitated these things are fools. They would sure tie up loose ends in one way or another, because we understand the way the state works in our neighbourhood. Coupled with ineptitude of the investigation process, A structurally crippled mandate, international political machinations, and, significantly, a silent desire to manage the next elections being the stated greater priority of Annan, one must consider the big fish list was more of a scarecrow than an attempt at truth and safe convictions! You were very late in your anticipations of violence. By September, the security forces were already rehearsing deployments, cancelling leaves and calling up reservists! Only they deployed them to wrong areas. Yes, wrong intelligence! ---Ah, Ocampo and his evidence! There was always Ocampo the lawyer, and Ocampo the politician. What remains in my mind is his cross examination of Uhuru Kenyatta. B6k and I, I remember clearly –that was the run-away Kamale thread ICC help, immediately noted Uhuru had wiped the floor with Ocampo. (No, I do not think that makes Uhuru innocent, but it means by the SELF standards of this court he has no case to answer! A case is as good as its facts presented before the panel!) The truth is the real hindrance is the government of the USA. (Apart from general Kenyan apathy for other reasons) Why? The information gathering of the USA is unmatched, even by GDR Erick Honecker’s Stassi. It is safe to say they have all the clues, smoking guns and who did what in that period, courtesy of a gigantic high and low tech informationa gathering operation. Well, we all know what they use it for. ---Apart from jokes, like when Obama told Angela Merkel that her bedroom vocabulary was cheekier, steamier than Michelle’s! How do you know, Angela asked? I and your husband do talk, you know, man to man stuff! Obama lied. www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/mka/lowres/politics-big_brother-barack_obama-spying_scandals-eu_us_relations-phone_tap-mkan494l.jpgOnly fools have never understood William Ruto is politically gifted. I admit as an ODMer long ago, my view was Ruto as a Higher Value Person than Musalia Mudavadi whom UK is toying with now. So let me publicly warn Uhuru Kenyatta, that he should not listen to the advice of those telling him to work for Ruto’s downfall, ie help the ICC a bit with intel, reasoning that the political playing field is wide and open, and he Uhuru can have whomsoever he wishes to bed: Mudavadi is his for the taking, Raila is low, Kalonzo is no threat on his own, and Wetangula has not made up his mind. That pact of yours with Ruto, Mr. Kenyatta, is what has underpinned peace in the republic. Toy with it at more than your own peril.
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Post by kamalet on Feb 9, 2014 16:19:49 GMT 3
I think we err in heaping the blame on money hungry Kenyans seeking to be witnesses for hire. I think the blame should be placed on the door step of the NGO or what has become to be known as the evil society. These guys saw the opportunity to make money from donor agencies that were led to believe that they rather than the government could provide information on PEV that could enable Ocampo get a conviction. The allegations of USAID having pumped into Wafula's NGO a whooping 16 million shillings for witness procurement as Matsanga calls it are already in court and we have seen how a witness was even falsifying invoices for none existent hotels.
Perhaps a perspective that still holds true today was the appearance of one of the Africog lawyers in a Malindi appearing for the Mombasa mosque riots. That appearance was essentially made for TV with no regard to the accused as the lawyer went into the argument of bias by the local magistrate including accusations of lack of jurisdiction - forget about the fact that one can be charged in any court in Kenya - that the magistrate disqualified himself. The result of this is that the bail application for the youths was not heard and they poor guys stay in remand until next Wednesday when the matter is heard in a Mombasa court. As you can see, this intervention by the NGO lawyer was nothing to do with the victims.....but how much press one gets as a defender and this is called marketing for money! I understand that the local lawyers are quite unhappy with this activist.
So wonder no more the fiasco at the ICC!
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Post by OtishOtish on Feb 9, 2014 18:12:29 GMT 3
Where is Moonki Njakip Otishotish to provide us with his usual point by point "factual" rebuttals to Matsanga's missive above?
b6k:
You are one funny guy! Ati point by point rebuttal of Matsanga's "missive"! Ati Matsanga knows the inner workings of the court! Because a Defence team leaked some stuff to him?
I am not aware that anybody in the world takes Matsanga seriously, except some Kenyans, and it is astonishing to see him appearing on national media there. (Where else does he get such attention ... on TV, radio, newspapers, serious cyberforums, etc.) On second thoughts, I take that back: the Ugandans take him seriously, because they would like to try him for three murders.
On another thread, I clearly stated that I would mostly not be commenting here (on Jukwaa) on ICC matters until the unhelpful excitement had died down. (For obvious reasons, "Hero Omwenga" is an exception.) But my fans have made a demand, so I will make one quick exception.
Somebody made a good choice in Matsanga. His job was and still is to make noise for Kenyans, and, for that, he has been assured of ample access to the Kenyan media. Who is the somebody? I have no idea, but look at which of the two cases his comments and actions mostly relate to. My guess is that at some point the somebody's lawyer wanted some things leaked into the Kenyan media but not be traceable back to them. For that, a demented maverick fit the bill nicely. So we had the bit about #4. Matsanga is till dining on that. Long after. And his fans are still as excited. He hasn't been given any new work since, and I don't see that he has had anything to do with the matter of #11 and #12.
I have been asked for a "rebuttal". I would be wasting good drinking time to even spend more than a couple of minutes on this, but I hate to leave you disappointed; so I shall give you something ... (I assume that the "missive" is the semi-illiterate rambling.)
"5. The entire world must know that there are 2 applications filed by me that are pending before the Appeal Chamber 5 for the same crimes her office(OTP) committed during and after investigations of both Kenyan cases. These two applications are the roadblock to Fatou Bensouda’s cases."
Matsanga and his lawyer, a Chief Taku, had made filings at the court that are great case studies of how not to write anything: bad spelling and grammar, bad spacing, bad arguments, etc. Even the paragraph numbering is bad. The last is actually quite important in such documents (to facilitate referencing) and very easy to check. Yet in one short document (7 pages)
www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1576739.pdf
Matsanga and Chief Taku had paragraphs numbered as
1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 3, 4, .... 13, 14, 15, 13, 14, 15
The Appeals Chamber commented on that. Looking at Matsanga's funny filings, the Appeals Chamber has showed exemplary patience. Still on the last one, the court felt that advice was necessary:
"Finally, with regard to the substance and style of the submissions, the Appeals Chamber considers that it is incumbent upon the applicant to provide submissions in as comprehensible a manner as possible in order for the Appeals Chamber to determine the validity of the arguments. The Appeals Chamber encourages Mr Nyekorach-Matsanga to exercise more diligence in this regard when filing documents before the Court."
After that the court needed only one more paragraph to dispose of the matter:
www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1583072.pdf
(Earlier he had been warned against filing large volumes of material whose relevance was not evident. He was also warned about defamatory statements.)
Alright, for the core of your "rebuttal", let's now consider Matsanga's paragraph, quoted above. The OTP has made several allegations against the government of Kenya. Very serious allegations that are being treated as such by Defence, GoK and the Trial Chamber. But it turns out that what these people don't know is that it is Matsanga who's blocking things, via the Appeals Chamber! Wow.
Oh, an amusing footnote on Matsanga's "total" understanding of the "inner workings of the court" ... Matsanga started his Appeals Chamber circus in a very straightforward way, the way you or I or any other manamba might do it: he would put his stuff in a big envelope, attach a label with the names of the judges of the Appeals Chamber, and head to the post office. Of course, they were ignored; judges cannot take seriously every piece of junk they receive in their mailboxes. This later became an issue, when The Hero, who "totally understands the inner workings of the court" claimed that he had already made submissions in the matter. Here is what the judges had to say:
"The Appeals Chamber wishes to emphasise that it has not been seized of any such complaint. The Appeals Chamber is aware that Mr Nyekorach-Matsanga has previously attempted to convey information to the judges of the Appeals Chamber outside of the context of any Court proceedings and without following the proper procedures for the filing of documents. The Appeals Chamber understands that, on such occasions, Mr Nyekorach-Matsanga was informed by the Registry that the Appeals Chamber will not consider submissions sent directly to the Appeals Chamber and that all communications in relation to judicial proceedings must be in compliance with the applicable procedures .."
But maybe that is just outer working ...
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Post by b6k on Feb 9, 2014 21:19:35 GMT 3
Podp, the operative word was unbridled. There is nothing inherently wrong with mass action when it's conducted in a civilized manner. What we saw during PEV was more akin to mass psychosis or mass murder than mass action...
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