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Post by b6k on Feb 26, 2014 10:26:13 GMT 3
No doubt, interest has dried up ... if only Khan would trip a little, or one of those witnesses bring more incriminating evidence, we might get a little more life here. But your's truly will keep at it for the commedy effect. Yesterday the short white fellow wanted to know what happens at Kalenjin circumcision ceremonies ... and first noted that the ceremonies are secretive but "... do you know what goes on there ... please tell us." Sang almost said "I object your honor." But he did not. He looked around for any help, but there was none. So the witness went ahead to tell them everything that goes on at those ceremonies ... and he knows it because his brothers have gone through the ceremony ... there is no limit to the creativity among these witnesses. One of Sang's lawyers has just about become fully booked up in interpretation for Sang's accusers  , as I have some time on my hands today I will try and catch up with some of the old open session videos over the last few days (assuming there's no live session today). I did read an article on one of the recent proceedings involving witness 409 which went as follows: "The day began with the lawyer for victims, Wilfred Nderitu, questioning the witness. Most of Nderitu’s examination of the witness was done in private session. When the court returned to open session, Judge Robert Fremr asked the witness why he continued attending the rallies after knowing that the speakers would be the same as the ones for the first rally, and they were likely to repeat what they had said. The witness said that he was born and lived in the Nandi Hills area, and he did not know anywhere else he could go." www.icckenya.org/2014/02/defense-lawyer-challenges-witness-on-his-knowledge-of-kalenjin/Clearly the judge has little understanding of the entertainment value that political rallies have in KE especially upcountry where a gaggle of politicians landing in town will be the talk of the village for days on end after the fact Upcountry residents can attend an ODM (now for the most part CORD) rally today and a PNU (now primarily Jubilee)rally tomorrow hoping to catch a glimpse of the bigwigs and maybe chance upon a free t-shirt or some other handout. It's the nature of the beast, or politics in KE... |
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Post by mank on Feb 28, 2014 6:15:27 GMT 3
B6K
I have just listened to the episode you describe. Immediately after the question you described the judge asked the witness if there were media at any of the rallies. Remember the witness was within 30 yards in most if not all those meetings ... he "..did not preoccupy himself with media issues but they (Ruto & Kosgey) used voice amplification gadgets.". whoever 'prochuured' this one had good instincts.
Never before have I heard Kenyans express distance in yards as often as in this ICC case. And I notice one of the prosecution lawyers is either Canadian or USA. Just saying!
Did you catch the Solomonic moment of judge O helping Katwa Kigen elicit the witness' distinction of 'Nyazi' and 'magugu'? They don't often make this kind of comedy.
And help me out here ... if you know: why would it matter if Ruto would have said 'uproot grass' as opposed to 'uproot weeds'? would the witness' interpretation be easier to overcome if the former as opposed to the latter?
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Post by b6k on Feb 28, 2014 23:55:37 GMT 3
B6KI have just listened to the episode you describe. Immediately after the question you described the judge asked the witness if there were media at any of the rallies. Remember the witness was within 30 yards in most if not all those meetings ... he "..did not preoccupy himself with media issues but they (Ruto & Kosgey) used voice amplification gadgets.". whoever 'prochuured' this one had good instincts. Never before have I heard Kenyans express distance in yards as often as in this ICC case. And I notice one of the prosecution lawyers is either Canadian or USA. Just saying! Did you catch the Solomonic moment of judge O helping Katwa Kigen elicit the witness' distinction of 'Nyazi' and 'magugu'? They don't often make this kind of comedy. And help me out here ... if you know: why would it matter if Ruto would have said 'uproot grass' as opposed to 'uproot weeds'? would the witness' interpretation be easier to overcome if the former as opposed to the latter?
Mank, unfortunately I didn't even end up catching up on old episodes of ICC so I haven't watched the one where Ruto's talking about "gardening" so I can't help you there. Is the witness who was talking about being 30 yards of the action in most of the meetings the same one I saw in the news today admit that he can't read or write so he's not 100% sure about what whoever wrote his statements wrote down for him? |
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Post by mank on Mar 1, 2014 6:50:14 GMT 3
B6KI have just listened to the episode you describe. Immediately after the question you described the judge asked the witness if there were media at any of the rallies. Remember the witness was within 30 yards in most if not all those meetings ... he "..did not preoccupy himself with media issues but they (Ruto & Kosgey) used voice amplification gadgets.". whoever 'prochuured' this one had good instincts. Never before have I heard Kenyans express distance in yards as often as in this ICC case. And I notice one of the prosecution lawyers is either Canadian or USA. Just saying! Did you catch the Solomonic moment of judge O helping Katwa Kigen elicit the witness' distinction of 'Nyazi' and 'magugu'? They don't often make this kind of comedy. And help me out here ... if you know: why would it matter if Ruto would have said 'uproot grass' as opposed to 'uproot weeds'? would the witness' interpretation be easier to overcome if the former as opposed to the latter?
Mank, unfortunately I didn't even end up catching up on old episodes of ICC so I haven't watched the one where Ruto's talking about "gardening" so I can't help you there. Is the witness who was talking about being 30 yards of the action in most of the meetings the same one I saw in the news today admit that he can't read or write so he's not 100% sure about what whoever wrote his statements wrote down for him? That must be him. I will confirm if I find it out soon. I am up to an episode in which Kigen asks the witness if he understands any English and he says nope. But I think it was just strategy ... you have to hear some of these things from the horse's mouth ... the reporters almost always have their own version. The man says he attended all pre-2008 ODM campaign meetings in Nandi as an ODM supporter but then he claims he did not know that Musalia Mudavadi was Raila's running mate. He actually says of Mudavadi ".... ndio, nilimsikia mtu kama Hugo.". same for Kalonzo Musyoka and all rest, except Raila. Asked if anybody other Ruto and Kosgey spoke at the meetings he attended, he says "some spoke but I did not recognize them.". that must be people like Najib Balala and Mudavadi. That's the kind of witnesses occupying the Court. |
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Post by mank on Mar 1, 2014 22:37:30 GMT 3
Mank, unfortunately I didn't even end up catching up on old episodes of ICC so I haven't watched the one where Ruto's talking about "gardening" so I can't help you there. Is the witness who was talking about being 30 yards of the action in most of the meetings the same one I saw in the news today admit that he can't read or write so he's not 100% sure about what whoever wrote his statements wrote down for him? I am up to an episode in which Kigen asks the witness if he understands any English and he says nope. But I think it was just strategy ... you have to hear some of these things from the horse's mouth ... the reporters almost always have their own version. The man says he attended all pre-2008 ODM campaign meetings in Nandi as an ODM supporter but then he claims he did not know that Musalia Mudavadi was Raila's running mate. He actually says of Mudavadi ".... ndio, nilimsikia mtu kama Hugo.". same for Kalonzo Musyoka and all rest, except Raila. Asked if anybody other Ruto and Kosgey spoke at the meetings he attended, he says "some spoke but I did not recognize them.". that must be people like Najib Balala and Mudavadi. That's the kind of witnesses occupying the Court. B6K, you were right. That was him. And things are not looking good for him ... or rather things look pretty bad for him, actually. There are many instances in which the questioning suggest confidence in the defense that it has sufficient evidence of perjury on the guy but the "closed/private sessions" are ever ready to cut in with suspense. Khan is eager to have this thing in public, through very careful and difficult question development on his part ... but of course the prosecutor doesn't like that. In the final session of Feb 27th Khan asks the "witness" something like "... are you aware that there is a technology presently of showing where a call is made from?" Apparently the guy's phone records don't rhyme logistically with the logistics depicted by testimony. That can't be good. |
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Post by mank on Mar 10, 2014 4:23:35 GMT 3
Mank, you may not have many takers on yet another ICC thread. The "prochured" justice has lost its luster now that the cases hit the reefs and are fast sinking. When is the last time you saw the Uhuruto lynch mob on this thread? They have gone for "softer" targets. I did happen to watch the French "expert" online the other day. He wasn't too bad. The hilarious thing was having to watch the defence team and even Sang himself translate the Kalenjin phrases for the court. It seems the ICC had gone way overboard in ensuring no Kenyans would be in their translation teams to "taint" any evidence to the point they overlooked the non Swahili languages that could be quoted in the proceedings. Oh my, we really are being taught how to run a credible court... No doubt, interest has dried up ... if only Khan would trip a little, or one of those witnesses bring more incriminating evidence, we might get a little more life here. ... I am listening to the proceedings of March 6th. Things are suddenly very interesting. A witness who has sounded very credible all along now makes very direct references to Sang complimenting "kazi nzuri" and lamenting that still "kwekwe remained on farms" in certain parts. This is particularly interesting because the defense expressed frustration with not having heard some of the evidence this witness is giving. It will be interesting to see how the defense handles these allegations. The court's ears are erect! oh my my ... confrontation and confrontation ..... I know not where this is going. She's either a "witness" like all the rest, or she really is traumatized. |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 10, 2014 8:17:47 GMT 3
Mank
Later in her testimony before the end of the week, here confidence is completely shattered when it appears that she may not have been a witness to very many things she claimed she saw!
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Post by mank on Mar 11, 2014 3:53:25 GMT 3
Mank Later in her testimony before the end of the week, here confidence is completely shattered when it appears that she may not have been a witness to very many things she claimed she saw! Not at all surprising. I anticipated this turn of events. I just was not sure if the defenses had enough time to dig the dirt. I have now watched up to the end of last week ... what an end! |
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Post by mank on Mar 11, 2014 6:32:33 GMT 3
I will have to cut the witness some slack here: I think she believes in the material part of her testimony (Afrikanly speaking). I really do!
She has told a number of untruths for sure ... and she has been coached. And she is wrong on many levels. but at the same time she has a window of view to the satanic events of 2007/8 that I would like more light on. Aughkkkkkkkgd ... all are victims after all!
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Post by podp on Apr 2, 2014 13:19:19 GMT 3
PIGS and dogs ate unattended bodies of post-election violence victims in Eldoret, witness number 14 told the ICC yesterday. The witness also claimed Kalenjin youths who burned down Kikuyu houses in the area appeared to be commanded by someone. He said they wore red “Maasai-like shukas” and had smeared paint on their faces. The witness said they operated in three formations each numbering between 50 and 100. He said they were armed with pangas, clubs and arrows while executing the arson. The witness said they exploited the terrain of the areas to facilitate their attack. He said he together with his neighbours in “location 1” would sometimes repel the attackers back to the hills by pelting them with stones. “Location Three as the name suggests has hills overlooking Location One. From the hills they would observe the happenings below and strike at the appropriate time,” he said. The witness said their movements appeared to be coordinated either on phone or through a signal. He said only one group would attack at a time while the other two held back their positions on the hills. If a group was repulsed, it would go back and a fresh group would attack. According to the witness, the warriors only attacked during the day. He said he had no count as to how many houses were burned. He said houses were burned in locations one, five and six. The actual name of the locations were hidden to protect the identity of the witness. www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-161136/attackers-had-uniforms-paint-says-icc-witness |
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Post by mank on Apr 8, 2014 22:35:44 GMT 3
International criminal court COURTESY BY WAHOME THUKU THE HAGUE: Former Prime Minister Raila Odinga warned of massive bloodshed if he was not declared winner of the 2007 presidential elections, a witness claimed on Monday. The female Prosecution witness told the International Criminal Court ( ICC) that she watched Mr Raila on television threatening that the Mediterranean and the Red seas would be filled with blood if he was not declared winner. And for the second time, the witness maintained that she saw Deputy President William Ruto slap the then Electoral Commission (ECK) Chairman Samuel Kivuitu during a bitter exchange over the presidential results. She claimed that Mr Ruto, then an ODM luminary, slapped the late Kivuitu at the Kenyatta International Conference Centre (K ICC) on December 29, 2007 a day before the results were announced. But Ruto denied the allegations. The witness was testifying in the trial of Ruto and radio journalist Joshua Sang in The Hague, Netherlands. Cross examined by Ruto’s lawyer Leigh Lawrie, the witness said after Raila had uttered the warning on December 30, 2007, he (Raila) started crying. The witness said the defence had not included the recording of Ruto slapping Kivuitu, which she had watched on TV. Judge Osuji: With exception of that, would you say everything else was part of what you saw on TV on that date? Witness: I can only remember the slapping point, the rest I can’t recall. Ms Lawrie: We say at no time did Ruto hit Kivuitu and what you have told the court is not true. Witness: I’m speaking the truth. It was on a Saturday 29, December. Ms Lawrie: Did you ever read anything about this incident in the newspapers? Witness: I have not said I read it in my statement. I said I watched on TV. The witness concluded her evidence yesterday. Next on the stand will be an expert witness to testify today. He was said to be on his way to The Hague on Monday. Read more at: www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000108881&story_title=raila-odinga-warned-of-massive-bloodshed-and-william-ruto-slapped-samuel-kivuitu-icc-told&pageNo=3 |
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 23, 2014 5:54:02 GMT 3
b6k:
Apologies that I did not get back to you on a couple of things. Time has passed ... but let me clarify one thing: Yes, I did offer the OTP unsolicited advice, which they never responded to, and which they are not required to even consider. That is very different from making a formal application to the court, as Matsanga has done (or at least usually tries to). In the latter case, the court will always consider the matter, however silly it is, and then make a formal response. If you trawl through the court records, you'd be surprised at how much time the court appears to devote to taking seriously all sorts of semi-illiterate jokers.
At any rate, your boy was busy in Jan & Feb, and I'm surprised that you missed the court's decision, which was issued last month (March). I take it your boy hasn't on the Kenyan airwaves giving details of how he "fought the ICC and won" or why he is the one "blocking everything"?
Here is what the court says it was asked to deal with [count the "sic"s inserted by the judges in that one paragraph!]:
"Having before it the ''A.motion of Amicus Curie [sic] by Mr. David Nyekorach-
Matsanga to remove the word Exparte-Confidential on the materials before Appeal
Chamber 5 [sic] and to publicly clear my name on the ruling of 11 July [sic] 2012
case No. ICC-01/09 O A 2 in the case and decision on request for disqualification of
the Chief Prosecutor against David Nyekorach-Matsanga" dated 14 October 2013 and
registered on 16 October 2013 (ICC-01/09-122-Conf-Exp-Anx), the "Amicus Curiae
motion by Dr.David Nyekorach- Matsanga against (OTP) for Prejury [sic],
obstruction of justice, perverting the cause of Justice : ([sic] (former Chief Prosecutor
and current Chief Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda) REASON : Failing to notify the Pre-
Trial Chamber 2 [sic] and any other court on the new circumstances surrounding
witness([sic] OTP 4 [REDACTED]), withholding recanted evidence of (0TP4)
thereby Obstmcting [sic] course of Justice and perverting course of Justice and use of
intermediaries in procurement of witnesses and evidence that was filed in KENYA
SITUATION ICC-01/09" dated 6 November 2013 and registered on 7 November
2013 (ICC-01/09-124-Conf), and the "Application for arrest and prosecution of Mr.
Luis Moreno Ocampo for violation of article 70 and contempt of court order of
Appeal Chamber 5 [sic] in the order assigned to the Registrar of ICC [sic] by Judge
Erkki Koumla dated 5'*' June 2012 (ICC-STA42-01/12-1-CONF-EXP-ANX1)" dated
10 Febmary 2014 and registered on 13 February 2014 (ICC-01/09-126-Conf-Anxl)"
and The Hero went on and on, in a similar vein and with some very colourful demands, including one for the arrest and prosecution of the OTP's chief prosecutor, one for the immediate termination of the Kenyan cases, etc.
Such nonsense can quickly be disposed of serious requests must be attended to immediately, and the court did that, although it was unhappy with one or two minor aspects:
"Finally, concerning the style of the requests, the Appeals Chamber notes that, in particular, the Request for
Reclassification and the Request for the Suspension or the Arrest of Former and
Present Prosecutors are full of editorial errors. Recalling that "it is incumbent upon
the applicant to provide submissions in as comprehensible a manner as possible in
order for the Appeals Chamber to determine the validity of the arguments", the
Appeals Chamber wishes to remind Mr Nyekorach-Matsanga once again of the
diligence required when filing documents before the Court." [Similar comments on earlier applications by The Hero and Oga lawyer Chief Taku]
Anyways .... I have read very many of the court's records, and I have to admit that Matsanga has this time achieved something that I have yet to see equalled and which will not be quickly forgotten. Here is what the judges had to say about it:
"Inter alia, both requests contain a considerable number of typographical errors, including the spelling
of the applicant's own name and of the names of the accused in the pending cases in the Kenya
situation."
More to be found here:
www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/doc/doc1745135.pdf
What might be bothering The Hero right now is that contrary to his claim (bought by his followers) that he "fought the OTP and won", the OTP has never stated that it stopped looking into what he has been up to. We do know that there are still several ongoing Article-70 investigations. Against whom and for what? Who knows ... What we do know is that quite a few people have been involved in all sorts of chicanery and someone is looking into things.
P.S. I admit that court records are generally quite dull, but their connection to reality (when compared to what's on TV) is much under-rated. |
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