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Post by OtishOtish on Feb 21, 2014 10:57:33 GMT 3
I have (for years) been following most of the cases at the ICC. I consider Gaynor to be one of the best "Victims' Reps" the court has ever had. So, I am astonished at the claims that he "says one thing in private and another in public". Assuming the Irish Times is "private" and the ICC is "public" ... I have yet to find an example of Gaynor stating to manambas something he had not already put in writing to the court and which would be in the court's public records. Of course, I could be wrong, and if his detractors care to ... but before they do, I encourage them to do their homework.
Skip, skip, skip, fast-forward, double fast-forward ....
Probably the biggest question now is what happens if Uhuru's case "collapses" or is "folded up" or something. What Uhuru's lawyers are asking for is a final "perp is acquitted!". What the OTP wants is "to be continued". Martial-arts types sometimes refer "that split-second moment". Legal points aside, I think that what Gaynor has to say for the victims will be decisive in that "split-second" ... and, so far, he's doing a very good job of it.
I encourage Jukwaaists to take a break from fondling the "one-eyed snake" and going "ah! ah! ... the perp's getting away with it, and am getting off on it ... off, off, off!!". Disgusting, little perverts. Snap out of it! Look at the bigger picture ...
So, then ... you are still reading this, which means I still have your attention. I'll make use of this "split second" to ask a couple of questions:
(a) What, in your opinion, led to the 2007-2008 PEV? [Please explain]
(b) Have the real problems been solved? [Please explain]
(c) Will there ever be any justice for PEV victims? If not, what does that say about Kenya and what are the implications?
"Ended" or "to be continued a later date"? Hmmm. Stolen land or "stolen land". In Kenya, that's something. To be continued, at a later date. Time flies .... like an arrow or something. One day it's 1992 or something, and today ...
So, suppose the perps get away with it. What are the implications for 10 or 20 years down the road? Think! |
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Post by podp on Feb 21, 2014 17:27:11 GMT 3
I
Skip, skip, skip, fast-forward, double fast-forward ....
Probably the biggest question now is what happens if Uhuru's case "collapses" or is "folded up" or something.
(a) What, in your opinion, led to the 2007-2008 PEV? [Please explain]
(b) Have the real problems been solved? [Please explain]
(c) Will there ever be any justice for PEV victims? If not, what does that say about Kenya and what are the implications?
What are the implications for 10 or 20 years down the road? Think! Attorney General Githu Muigai’s recent defence of the other Muigai, who happens to be the Head of State, was remarkable. The AG’s growls revealed his contempt for some of the questions put to him, and exposed the ignorance of his interlocutors at the International Criminal Court. I had no reason to doubt the good professor when he enumerated the huge sums spent in the resettlement programme of post-election violence survivors, as well as the great strides made to restitute the injured. That was until KTN tracked down the face of the Kiambaa church tragedy who was filmed in January 2008 wailing outside the church holding one torn shoe in her hand. The elderly woman has been on her own, quite literally, unable to access psychosocial support to overcome the trauma that she experienced. Neither has she received any financial support to help her restart her life. Personal hygiene Instead, the neglected woman was infested with jiggers. She had to be helped back on her feet after a neat scrub by activists from a local NGO. We know jiggers thrive where folks observe poor personal hygiene. But for the elderly Kiambaa victim, it represents a bigger tragedy: a citizen who gave up on life after her country abandoned her. www.standardmedia.co.ke/mobile/?articleID=2000105129&story_title=elderly-kiambaa-church-victim-represents-our-national-shameI did see the KTN clip and it is harrowing. during the Belgian king stranglehold over Congo before their independence in 1960, soldiers were told to account for every cartridge fired, so they hacked off and smoked the hands, feet and private parts of their victims. body parts were presented to commanders in baskets as proof the soldiers had done their work well. detailed cases of natives being forced to drink white men's urine, having their bound hands beaten till they dropped off, being eaten by maggots while still alive and fed to cannibal tribes on death.... ``The brown current ran swiftly out of the heart of darkness, bearing us down towards the sea with twice the speed of our upward progress; and Kurtz's life was running swiftly, too, ebbing, ebbing out of his heart into the sea of inexorable time and his last words were`` `The horror! The horror!'. Wrong noted 'In the Footsteps of Mr. Kurtz' show how the above lessons were passed on to our 'founding fathers' in our case good old Jomo and now with his son the lessons are well preserved ...what that KTN clip brought forth....no problem has been solved |
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Post by b6k on Feb 22, 2014 10:29:06 GMT 3
I have (for years) been following most of the cases at the ICC. I consider Gaynor to be one of the best "Victims' Reps" the court has ever had. So, I am astonished at the claims that he "says one thing in private and another in public". Assuming the Irish Times is "private" and the ICC is "public" ... I have yet to find an example of Gaynor stating to manambas something he had not already put in writing to the court and which would be in the court's public records. Of course, I could be wrong, and if his detractors care to ... but before they do, I encourage them to do their homework.
Skip, skip, skip, fast-forward, double fast-forward ....
Probably the biggest question now is what happens if Uhuru's case "collapses" or is "folded up" or something. What Uhuru's lawyers are asking for is a final "perp is acquitted!". What the OTP wants is "to be continued". Martial-arts types sometimes refer "that split-second moment". Legal points aside, I think that what Gaynor has to say for the victims will be decisive in that "split-second" ... and, so far, he's doing a very good job of it.
I encourage Jukwaaists to take a break from fondling the "one-eyed snake" and going "ah! ah! ... the perp's getting away with it, and am getting off on it ... off, off, off!!". Disgusting, little perverts. Snap out of it! Look at the bigger picture ...
So, then ... you are still reading this, which means I still have your attention. I'll make use of this "split second" to ask a couple of questions:
(a) What, in your opinion, led to the 2007-2008 PEV? [Please explain]
(b) Have the real problems been solved? [Please explain]
(c) Will there ever be any justice for PEV victims? If not, what does that say about Kenya and what are the implications?
"Ended" or "to be continued a later date"? Hmmm. Stolen land or "stolen land". In Kenya, that's something. To be continued, at a later date. Time flies .... like an arrow or something. One day it's 1992 or something, and today ...
So, suppose the perps get away with it. What are the implications for 10 or 20 years down the road? Think! So I take a couple days off from Jukwaa and our resident juju man unleashes his gourds & beans by starting yet another pointless ICC thread? SMH... Otishotish, it's good to see you have taken some time off pursuing your MBA in "rail-ology" & returned to what has always been your baby all along...the ICC. That said, has it ever occurred to that you see in others what really resides within you? What's this obsession you seem to have with people "getting off" on the possibility that the Bensouda 3 will be acquitted (get off  )? May it not be due to the fact that all along you have been waiting to "get off" on their being convicted but with the trials going south you now find yourself in such a state that you "can't get it up, can't get it up!", to the point where the trials have become a source of torture to you that can only be compared to coitus interruptus? Do yourself and the rest of us a favour & tone down on the fantasies emerging from your nether regions. Just because the trial is in the Netherlands it doesn't mean you have to put on the red light, so to speak. The origins of PEV are no secret and the true perpetrators are known as well. Now why don't you join us back on the other thread and answer: (a) did the OTP really have a "water-tight" case as they earlier claimed? (b) is the fact that one is on trial proof of guilt in itself? If so, should we bother with trials at all, or go straight to sentencing? (c) will trying &/or convicting the wrong men result in "justice" for the victims? PS: I believe the best victim's lawyer was Anyah. The rest simply want the charade to go on to ensure the paychecks keep on coming.... |
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Post by kamalet on Feb 24, 2014 18:31:25 GMT 3
Unfortunately Gaynor is no different to Ocampo. He believes the victims cause is well represented by the same evil society that "prochured" witnesses for Ocsmpo. I honestly doubt he had a cause for the victims but the pay check he receives purporting to.represent victims. Why else is he mad with the government of Kenys and not Bensouda for screwing up on the witnesses whom they believed whilst they were nothing more than a bunch of liars? Why is he not mad at the same evil society for the "prochurement" of lying witnesses ? He need not side with the defence, but surely how does he hope the victims will get any justice on huge cases now hanging on a shred?
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Post by podp on Feb 24, 2014 19:30:22 GMT 3
Unfortunately Gaynor is no different to Ocampo. He believes the victims cause is well represented by the same evil society that "prochured" witnesses for Ocsmpo. I honestly doubt he had a cause for the victims but the pay check he receives purporting to.represent victims. Why else is he mad with the government of Kenys and not Bensouda for screwing up on the witnesses whom they believed whilst they were nothing more than a bunch of liars? Why is he not mad at the same evil society for the "prochurement" of lying witnesses ? He need not side with the defence, but surely how does he hope the victims will get any justice on huge cases now hanging on a shred? I suggest we think of two types of reconciliation: One cosmetic, the other meaningful. Reconciliation alone will give you a ceasefire; only reconciliation combined with reform has the possibility of showing the road to a durable peace. Meaningful reconciliation is not the opposite of justice but the complement to justice. Meaningful reconciliation is only possible if reform identifies and addresses central issues in the conflict. I want to argue that the issue for us today, the big issue, is political violence. This violence is testimony that we have failed to come to grips with the legacy of colonialism – and the challenge of decolonisation. www.theeastafrican.co.ke/OpEd/comment/International-community-distorted-political-process-in-Kenya/-/434750/2217312/-/rdmmyrz/-/index.htmlthere is not a shortage of apologists coming up with twisted explanations on how we are still not abhorring 'diaper mentality' but are very happy to blame our colonizers for our current predicament. the new director of Amnesty International in East Africa argues nicely against the above and her 3rd point.... Third, and most importantly, the promise of political reform has always (always!) failed to be realised in Kenya because of the political instrumentalisation and mobilisation of ethnicity. Thus, it is the political protagonists who have failed to act on reforms with respect to land. And it is the political protagonists who have continued to politically instrumentalise and mobilise ethnicity in so doing. www.theeastafrican.co.ke/OpEd/comment/Was-2007-8-post-election-violence-criminal-or-political/-/434750/2217318/-/1283oquz/-/index.htmlon witnesses being procured if OTP could get in excess of 70 witnesses and now less than 30 are available we blame OTP? some twisted logic that today's' paper tries to grasp.... The ICC prosecutor had lined up 77 prosecution witnesses to testify against President Uhuru Kenyatta, his deputy William Ruto and Kass FM journalist Joshua Arap Sang. But of these, at least 30 have so far left the cases, according to an analysis by The Standard of official ICC records and reports about individuals who have sworn affidavits withdrawing as witnesses. On January 9, last year, Ms Bensouda had told trial judges the prosecution intended to call 43 witnesses in the Ruto-Sang trial. In Uhuru’s trial, the prosecution had hoped to call 34 witnesses— 31 testifying on the facts of the post-election violence and three expert witnesses. The exodus has jolted the prosecution’s cases because among those who have withdrawn are what prosecution labels “insider witnesses” because their testimonies directly implicated the accused. Among those remaining are expert witnesses whose testimony is largely academic. www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000105360&story_title=bensouda-suffers-serious-jolt-in-uhuru-ruto-trialsGaynor says recent statement by Director of Public Prosecutions Keriako Tobiko that none of the 4000 plus post election violence files are prosecutable further dims victims hopes for justice. He regretted that Tobiko “made no reference to any intention to comprehensively re-investigate” the files. “It is now clear that the victims of this case will receive no justice in Kenya for the crimes committed against them. The impact of this must be emphasized: there will be no accountability whatsoever at the Kenyan courts for those responsible for the horrific crimes,” he said. www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-156483/poll-victims-lawyer-faults-ag-muigai“The DPP and the Attorney-General take decisions in a manner which is de jure (by law) independent of the President. However, de facto (in practice) it must be recognised that senior figures in government – including the AG and DPP – have consistently taken positions which are fully aligned with the interests of the accused and opposed to the interests of victims of the crimes charged in this case,” www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Githu-Muigai-Keriako-Tobiko-ICC-Bias/-/1064/2218028/-/x95165z/-/index.htmlso we blame OTP for DPP and AG behaving more like defense teams of our indicted PORK and deputy PORK while conveniently pretending that no victims of PEV exist except PORK and deputy PORK? some twisted logic! |
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Post by podp on Feb 26, 2014 18:54:43 GMT 3
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Post by OtishOtish on Dec 8, 2014 7:30:27 GMT 3
I have (for years) been following most of the cases at the ICC. I consider Gaynor to be one of the best "Victims' Reps" the court has ever had. So, I am astonished at the claims that he "says one thing in private and another in public". Assuming the Irish Times is "private" and the ICC is "public" ... I have yet to find an example of Gaynor stating to manambas something he had not already put in writing to the court and which would be in the court's public records. Of course, I could be wrong, and if his detractors care to ... but before they do, I encourage them to do their homework.
Skip, skip, skip, fast-forward, double fast-forward ....
Probably the biggest question now is what happens if Uhuru's case "collapses" or is "folded up" or something. What Uhuru's lawyers are asking for is a final "perp is acquitted!". What the OTP wants is "to be continued". Martial-arts types sometimes refer "that split-second moment". Legal points aside, I think that what Gaynor has to say for the victims will be decisive in that "split-second" ... and, so far, he's doing a very good job of it.
I encourage Jukwaaists to take a break from fondling the "one-eyed snake" and going "ah! ah! ... the perp's getting away with it, and am getting off on it ... off, off, off!!". Disgusting, little perverts. Snap out of it! Look at the bigger picture ...
So, then ... you are still reading this, which means I still have your attention. I'll make use of this "split second" to ask a couple of questions:
(a) What, in your opinion, led to the 2007-2008 PEV? [Please explain]
(b) Have the real problems been solved? [Please explain]
(c) Will there ever be any justice for PEV victims? If not, what does that say about Kenya and what are the implications?
"Ended" or "to be continued a later date"? Hmmm. Stolen land or "stolen land". In Kenya, that's something. To be continued, at a later date. Time flies .... like an arrow or something. One day it's 1992 or something, and today ...
So, suppose the perps get away with it. What are the implications for 10 or 20 years down the road? Think! See red highlights [podp patented] and blue. |
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)? May it not be due to the fact that all along you have been waiting to "get off" on their being convicted but with the trials going south you now find yourself in such a state that you "can't get it up, can't get it up!", to the point where the trials have become a source of torture to you that can only be compared to coitus interruptus?
