WHY IS AL-SHABBAB BUTCHERING CHRISTIANS?

[omundustrong]

Every time Al-shabbab militants strikes and murders people the Muslim leaders are quick to state that this is not a religious war.However,i beg to differ,in the three instances at Mpeketoni,Westgate,and Mandera only Christians were targeted.This is a religious war by all intend and purpose.Why didn't they kill the driver who tried to ignore their command to stop?Call it by any name but in my view this is pure murder of Christians and may be the time of turning the other cheek is over.What would happen if a bomb is also thrown in a mosque?Muslims to be also removed from buses and asked to recite John 3:6?As i write this iam fed up with the Muslim leaders defending the indefensible."Open our mosques" yet they are not explaining how they will stop the radicalization of the youth,the christian youth can also be radicalized then what will happen?For the Government may be a rethink of the strategy is now long overdue,for instance where is the alternative narrative to radicalization of the youth,can we see concerted efforts to educate the youth on opportunities available to them and a deliberate effort to empower them and have them champion the message the same way behaviour change is taught to address issues like HIV/AIDS.Can we have peer educators among the Muslim youth who can preach a message of peace to the youth?Who should take the lead in this?All those so called muslim leaders,The Government,NGOs HAKI Trust which are in the forefront shouting whenever there is a crackdown on the mosques.

Unemployment is a problem everywhere in this country but the youth in most of these areas have not resorted to terrorism,why is this problem so rampant along the coastal and North eastern regions?

If we don't address this one day the Christians will also arm themselves and declare war on their adversaries because they don't have a monopoly to terror.Pardon the frustration but when defenseless women and men are butchered in such a macabre manner all sense can be thrown to the winds.

[Daktari wa makazi]

Before you start throwing rubbish towards Muslims, you better note that Alshabab do not act or defend Muslims - they are acting on their one behalves. As far as I know the Kenya government is fighting alshabab with whom they are in war. You think you can add something to that fight, feel free to join. Last time I heard, the Army are recruiting. But, remember alshabab and their attacks have nothing to do with Muslims, so please keep the general Muslims out of your menacing silliness.

You talk of closing Mosques. What has that to do with alshabab? Blanket punishment by Kikuyu government of Muslims is well documented. The excuse that by closing Mosques, alshabab will not have foot soldiers is simply myopic. Uhuru and his thieving clowns need to return the land and wealth to Muslims communities which they have plundered for years. Starting from Nubians in Kibera to Somalis in Mandera and Banjunis in Lamu, Muslims communities have been left destitute in their own regions.

Is it coincidence that the moment oil is discovered in Mandera, massacre happens there. Think!

[OtishOtish]

Nov 24, 2014 16:06:40 GMT 3 omundustrong said:

If we don't address this one day the Christians will also one arm themselves and declare war on their adversaries because they don't have a monopoly to terror.Pardon the frustration but when defenseless women and men are butchered in such a macabre manner all sense can be thrown to the winds.

Like this?

[podp]

Nov 24, 2014 16:06:40 GMT 3 omundustrong said:

Every time Al-shabbab militants strikes and murders people the Muslim leaders are quick to state that this is not a religious war.However,i beg to differ,in the three instances at Mpeketoni,Westgate,and Mandera only Christians were targeted.This is a religious war by all intend and purpose.Why didn't they kill the driver who tried to ignore their command to stop?Call it by any name but in my view this is pure murder of Christians and may be the time of turning the other cheek is over.What would happen if a bomb is also thrown in a mosque?Muslims to be also removed from buses and asked to recite John 3:6?As i write this iam fed up with the Muslim leaders defending the indefensible."Open our mosques" yet they are not explaining how they will stop the radicalization of the youth,the christian youth can also be radicalized then what will happen?For the Government may be a rethink of the strategy is now long overdue,for instance where is the alternative narrative to radicalization of the youth,can we see concerted efforts to educate the youth on opportunities available to them and a deliberate effort to empower them and have them champion the message the same way behaviour change is taught to address issues like HIV/AIDS.Can we have peer educators among the Muslim youth who can preach a message of peace to the youth?Who should take the lead in this?All those so called muslim leaders,The Government,NGOs HAKI Trust which are in the forefront shouting whenever there is a crackdown on the mosques.

Unemployment is a problem everywhere in this country but the youth in most of these areas have not resorted to terrorism,why is this problem so rampant along the coastal and North eastern regions?

If we don't address this one day the Christians will also one arm themselves and declare war on their adversaries because they don't have a monopoly to terror.Pardon the frustration but when defenseless women and men are butchered in such a macabre manner all sense can be thrown to the winds.

red high light

For example, the international news agency, Al Jazeerah covered police operations in detail, even interviewing residents and getting their opinion and the consequences of such raids.

Inasmuch as the Government has a responsibility to ensure all citizens live in peace and without fear of attacks, the image beamed around the world is one of a country that is falling to pieces and unable to contain the runaway insecurity within its borders.

Our news media, however, need to take all these into perspective.

For insecurity is, more than anything else, an issue of perception.

www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/?articleID=2000142373&story_title=Strike-balance-in-coverage-of-terror-acts

so what you read while far away from the war theater may not necessarily be correct as it is what the media wishes to communicate so that your perception is as per your contribution.

depending on your station on this earth the above article appears with the same headlight but the newspaper one above does not read like the one on website below which says in part...

In Kenya, any time an incident takes place that has to do with perceived or real terrorism, by reporting it, the media inadvertently magnifies it. Indeed, the goals of terrorists are not solely confined to winning the attention of the masses. In addition to that, through the media, they aim to publicise their political causes, inform both friends and foes about the motives for terrorist deeds, and explain their rationale for resorting to violence.

Read more at: www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000142373/strike-balance-in-coverage-of-terror-acts/?articleID=2000142373&story_title=strike-balance-in-coverage-of-terror-acts&pageNo=2

www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000142373/strike-balance-in-coverage-of-terror-acts/?articleID=2000142373&story_title=strike-balance-in-coverage-of-terror-acts&pageNo=3

I have had an occasion to discuss Kenya's security challenge with security officers, mostly those from the National Intelligence Service (NIS) and the regular police. What is apparent is a systemic and structural failure in the harmonious working of the security organs. NIS will always say they had provided intelligence, but police will be quick to dismiss it as vague. The public is then left at the mercy of criminals. It is a common belief within intelligence circles that some corrupt police officers are engaged in trading of information for monetary gains. The Mandera case is a classic example. Mandera Governor Ali Roba shared intelligence with police over a looming attack and feeling that perhaps no action would be taken, convened a press conference where he said he had received intelligence which he shared with the police over an impending attack. The story was covered in the media. The most perturbing reaction is that of Kimaiyo, who said they did not receive any intelligence from Roba. And even if he didn't, the governor had made it public. Which begs the question why the officers did not make a follow-up from the media reports.

Read more at: www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000142375/state-must-rethink-security-strategy

however matters do not end there as

On institutional capacity, it is time we revised the training curriculum of the police and other paramilitary personnel.

Security agencies must have dedicated staff who are fairly recruited, well-trained, properly equipped, and well remunerated.

The courts recently nullified police recruitment on grounds of corruption and other malpractices.

This vindicated long-held suspicions among Kenyan that the recruitment is mired in nepotism and bribery.

As the government pumps more money into the security sector, it is equally important to enforce transparency and accountability.

www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Insecurity-Police-Northern-Kenya-Incitement-Attacks/-/440808/2511918/-/66ycn4/-/index.html

the above brings into focus the recent benchmarking trip of CS Ole Lenku and IG Kimaiyo to Israel. on returning they were more keen on following up their per diems and not briefing their juniors on what they had learnt. sadder still Ole Lenku was said to have been involved in Maasai herdsmen occupying some land within Narok....

Yesterday and today ole lenku with 500 maasai warriors and 75 GSU officers took over by force Nguruman farm. He arrested all 76 workers.

Ole lenku is doing this because the farm is part owned by kenyans of European descent.He called the owner and told them he will deport him

This morning I and my clients called every police officers including the IG. All said they can’t touch ole lenku.

This is what happens when a doorman in 2 star hotel becomes in CS in charge of nation’s security. He starts stealing from his neighbors.

news-kenya.com/2014/11/lenku-lawyer-ahmednasir-abdulahi-face-nguruman-farm/

www.standardmedia.co.ke/campus/story/2000140453/drama-as-ahmednasir-attacks-lenku-on-twitter-linking-him-to-land-grab

www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/story.php?articleID=2000140453&story_title=Drama-as-Ahmednasir-attacks-Lenku-on-Twitter-linking-him-to-land-grab

so while CS Ole Lenku was showing signs of having learnt from the Israelis how to occupy land and not how to deal with al shabaab and other security thread this is what them terror minders are doing.

Now the militants have retreated to other parts of Kenya, areas that afford them suitable conditions to commit their atrocious attacks using hit-and-run tactics. In essence, the terrorists have extended the depth of the battle, to which the internal security apparatus seems incapable of countering as it appears to be out of touch with the reality on the ground.

The pattern of recent attacks in Mandera and Mombasa should have alerted the authorities that the enemy is hyperactive, an indication of potential major assaults.

The government is obviously a high-value target of symbolic importance for the Al-Shabaab extremists, who have enlisted Mombasa youths in a kamikaze attempt on highly fortified military barracks. Neutralising one of these targets would be a huge victory for the militants as it would raise the group’s profile and visibility.

www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/We-must-change-tack-to-counter-terrorism/-/440808/2532856/-/5pfp19z/-/index.html

so after this terrible act KNUT is asking teachers in North Eastern and other insecure areas who are not residents, read ethnic, to move back to their birth places and wait for further instructions. hence your wish for educators is like an archer truing to hit a bulls eye that is a kilometer away.

[OtishOtish]

Nov 24, 2014 20:39:40 GMT 3 podp said:

so after this terrible act KNUT is asking teachers in North Eastern and other insecure areas who are not residents, read ethnic, to move back to their birth places and wait for further instructions. hence your wish for educators is like an archer truing to hit a bulls eye that is a kilometer away.

What omundustrong suggested was:

"Can we have peer educators among the Muslim youth who can preach a message of peace to the youth?"

Start with "peer", and go from there: is "education" only what happens in the formal context of a classroom? are "educators" just the type of people who belong to KNUT and that sort of organization?

[abdulmote]

I am afraid that the topic of terrorism or insecurity is a lot more complex than we can dare discuss about in these pages. Terrorism, in fact and in reality, can be difficult to define without excluding various qualifying attributes managed by the various many. Unlike what we are made to believe, acts of terrorism do not exclusively originate from religious zealots, and in particular just Islamic ones only. State terror and terror from the capitalist greedy rich also has its significant part to play.

All in all and in my opinion, the world is currently being steered by mad people. Ironically, it is commonly mad people who have the guts and charisma of taking on leadership roles. religious, political, cultural economical or any other wise and potential following weaklings are many.

Lately I have watched in sadness at the publicized slaughter of innocent and humble volunteers, who gave their time and money towards trying to help those unfortunate enough to suffer in the calamities of war.

For me personally, it was not about the act of beheading that made me feel the way I did. But rather, it is the target victims and the sheer irrationality of committing such an act against such people.

Equally, the recent massacre in Mandera made me cry in my heart. How barbaric and insane was that? I am totally confident that not a single sane human being, whether Muslim or not, will not be appalled by such acts of madness and there are no words which can fully describe its awfulness. Omundustrong, I think I can understand your anger, although I also think you run the risk of joining the irrational through the same.

And having said that, I cannot also turn a blind eye in the deafening bombings and destructive shellings upon the dwellings of innocent citizens, in places like the Palestine and Afghanistan. Scores of innocent children, women, the elderly and whole families are being killed like flies by the EDF, the US and other western forces. Our own AU forces are known to have committed acts of terror against innocent Somalis. How then can the really non partisan perceive these acts? Should we then wonder when such pain being inflicted from different angles is creating so much terror upon different people of different origins?

[omundustrong]

Abdulmote,yours is a well reasoned contribution that adds to the body of knowledge on the problem,passions aside,what is your take on what can be done at least to ameliorate the senseless killings from both sides,from my myopic view, i thought peer educators along with many youth oriented programs that are geared towards empowering the youth would go a long way in trying to solve the problem of terror even if it can't be totally eliminated.It is easier to deal with a problem that is isolated than one which has many heads like the current problem.My observation is that we need a counter narrative spear-headed by the Government in conjunction with the Muslim leaders to counter the radicalization of the youth.My point is that the butchering cannot continue unabated,something gonna give and when it does we shall all be sorry.

Iam aware that in a war of attrition like this whoever has a better propaganda machinery seems to be the winner,this is however a war where there are no winners we are all losers.When the Government says it has killed 100 Al-shabab,Al-shabab claims all the attackers are safe who is saying the truth and does that matter anyway?Iam from a school of thought that believes that behaviour change can be modeled,the price may be high but the alternative is worse.

[kamalet]

There are many reasons to be angry about the sheer callousness of the murder of innocent Kenyans whose only crime was not being muslim in the eyes of the killers. Sadik will very quickly go on the defensive of the religion of Islam that the Alshabaab do not act or defent muslims. Unfortunately he knows the truth very well - Alshabaab works under the cover and pretext of the religion of Islam. They will call those they disagree with Kaffirs or non-believers. But these characters are no different o the Kanyaris of this world who use religion for the wrong reasons.

The downside of the actions of alshabaab is that non-locals are leaving NEP in droves which means key professionals needed in the area desert it and sends the locals backwards. One can feel the reasons to flee the area as being justified but there is the part of the heart that tells you abandoning the local hospitals and schools makes innocent people suffer.Perhaps the way round it may be the locals making a genuine effort to report the criminals in their midst.

The situation in Mombasa where criminals use Mosques to preach hate and keep weapons is another unfortunate one. The local leadership should stop seeing the situation from a religion angle, but MUST deal with leadership of the mosques to ensure that the radicals that took them over can not go back. I believe there is a process of excommunication in most religions and the muslims need to do this to those abusing places of worship. The local leadership should do the right thing and insist on the mosques remaining closed until the management of the mosques is not in the hands of radical youths!

[Daktari wa makazi]

Nov 25, 2014 16:51:00 GMT 3 kamalet said:

There are many reasons to be angry about the sheer callousness of the murder of innocent Kenyans whose only crime was not being muslim in the eyes of the killers. Sadik will very quickly go on the defensive of the religion of Islam that the Alshabaab do not act or defent muslims. Unfortunately he knows the truth very well - Alshabaab works under the cover and pretext of the religion of Islam. They will call those they disagree with Kaffirs or non-believers. But these characters are no different o the Kanyaris of this world who use religion for the wrong reasons.

The downside of the actions of alshabaab is that non-locals are leaving NEP in droves which means key professionals needed in the area desert it and sends the locals backwards. One can feel the reasons to flee the area as being justified but there is the part of the heart that tells you abandoning the local hospitals and schools makes innocent people suffer.Perhaps the way round it may be the locals making a genuine effort to report the criminals in their midst.

The situation in Mombasa where criminals use Mosques to preach hate and keep weapons is another unfortunate one. The local leadership should stop seeing the situation from a religion angle, but MUST deal with leadership of the mosques to ensure that the radicals that took them over can not go back. I believe there is a process of excommunication in most religions and the muslims need to do this to those abusing places of worship. The local leadership should do the right thing and insist on the mosques remaining closed until the management of the mosques is not in the hands of radical youths!

Alshababa is nothing to do with Islam even though they claim they are fighting in the religions name. That is a trite, which you well know.

So, why are you pretending that by closing Mosques or declaring illegal curfew - by the way all these actions are undertaken by atherere given power by atherere to defend illegal gained wealth by atherere - you will somehow vanquish alshabab?

Alshabab should be fought, a fight I am well aware Muslims have fought from within and without. That military sent illegally to Somalia also has in its midst Muslims sons and daughter - least athererere forgets - many son and daughter whom we have buried having returned in body-bags but atherere would never care to mention.

On a related matter, maybe you would like to tell us how you made your millions, Kamalet. I remember you confessing to not going to university, so one discerns with some A level education, albeit from Starehe, and a duo Kenyatta presidencies sandwiched between a Kibaki one make a muthee like you a very rich man. I raise that pertinent point because most Muslims I know including the Coasterians you gladly mentioned have been deprived of their wealth by tag-along-the-master atherere like your good yourself. You only need to look at Mpeketoni and see how many athereres found their way there courtesy of Kenyatta, the thief who died in a toilet. So, when the native folks of Mpeketoni demand their land back or claim their livelihood, should we all jump in hallelujah and call them terrorists. The same situation is only mirror image to the wider disquiet within the Muslims across the country.

I have no problem with the law taking its cause where a crime is detected – that is what any decent society would want their government to do. So go ahead and contain the insecurity, put practical policy to bolster security by giving ever Kenyan a sense of national pride. But, when Uhuru only recruitments Kikuyus for jobs in the security apparatus, turning national institution into little Agikuyu fiefdoms, it is not surprising when others do not want to play ball.

As for those leaving Mandera, well security is maintained by the government to whom people pay their taxes. So, if people are leaving because of insecurity, then in my view, the Uhuru government has failed. Mandera people may as well do their own security and keep their taxes to themselves and stop thieving friends from stealing their newly discovered oil and other resources while using those wealth for their wellbeing. With money and wealth, ever nomads with no education get served by the professionals - many of whom are athereres with no jobs at home.

[abdulmote]

The closure by Police of the four mosques was wrong and absolutely not necessary. If anything, such a stupid move only served to assist the Alshabbabs in their recruitment drive, without having to be physically in Mombasa, but just by killing a busload of innocent and unprotected civilians!

I sincerely offer my sorrowful condolences to all the bereaved and the affected by such a senseless and thoughtless act.

[mank]

Nov 24, 2014 16:26:05 GMT 3 Daktari wa makazi said:

Before you start throwing rubbish towards Muslims, you better note that Alshabab do not act or defend Muslims - they are acting on their one behalves. As far as I know the Kenya government is fighting alshabab with whom they are in war. You think you can add something to that fight, feel free to join. Last time I heard, the Army are recruiting. But, remember alshabab and their attacks have nothing to do with Muslims, so please keep the general Muslims out of your menacing silliness.

You talk of closing Mosques. What has that to do with alshabab? Blanket punishment by Kikuyu government of Muslims is well documented. The excuse that by closing Mosques, alshabab will not have foot soldiers is simply myopic. Uhuru and his thieving clowns need to return the land and wealth to Muslims communities which they have plundered for years. Starting from Nubians in Kibera to Somalis in Mandera and Banjunis in Lamu, Muslims communities have been left destitute in their own regions.

Is it coincidence that the moment oil is discovered in Mandera, massacre happens there. Think!

Sadik, how do you figure, you will succeed in disassociating AlShabab with Islam which they allege to champion, while at the same time claiming we have Kikuyu governments? To be clear, on the first point I would agree with you. But because of the second point, I think you should not be taken seriously.

[OtishOtish]

Nov 26, 2014 1:51:46 GMT 3 mank said:

Nov 24, 2014 16:26:05 GMT 3 Daktari wa makazi said:

Before you start throwing rubbish towards Muslims, you better note that Alshabab do not act or defend Muslims - they are acting on their one behalves. As far as I know the Kenya government is fighting alshabab with whom they are in war. You think you can add something to that fight, feel free to join. Last time I heard, the Army are recruiting. But, remember alshabab and their attacks have nothing to do with Muslims, so please keep the general Muslims out of your menacing silliness.

You talk of closing Mosques. What has that to do with alshabab? Blanket punishment by Kikuyu government of Muslims is well documented. The excuse that by closing Mosques, alshabab will not have foot soldiers is simply myopic. Uhuru and his thieving clowns need to return the land and wealth to Muslims communities which they have plundered for years. Starting from Nubians in Kibera to Somalis in Mandera and Banjunis in Lamu, Muslims communities have been left destitute in their own regions.

Is it coincidence that the moment oil is discovered in Mandera, massacre happens there. Think!

Sadik, how do you figure, you will succeed in disassociating AlShabab with Islam which they allege to champion, while at the same time claiming we have Kikuyu governments? To be clear, on the first point I would agree with you. But because of the second point, I think you should not be taken seriously.

I think the "second point" ought to be split into "sub-points":

(a) "Blanket punishment by Kikuyu government of Muslims is well documented."

Does Kenya have a "Kikuyu government"? Is its "punishment" of Muslims well-documented? Discuss.

(b) "The excuse that by closing Mosques, alshabab will not have foot soldiers is simply myopic."

The history of such things does suggest that it is a stupid and (ultimately) a counter-productive action. But there is little to suggest that Kenya has ever had a leadership that was known for clear and far-sighted thinking.

(c) "Uhuru and his thieving clowns need to return the land and wealth to Muslims communities which they have plundered for years."

Just who has stolen what and how long they have been plundering might not be clear, especially with the TJRC report dead and buried on arrival. But just recently a little "outsourced" mayhem from Al Shabab resulted in the sudden "discovery" and "reclamation" (by none other than the president) of a huge amount of stolen property. 

(d) "Starting from Nubians in Kibera to Somalis in Mandera and Banjunis in Lamu, Muslims communities have been left destitute in their own regions."

Perhaps "destitute" is open to discussion. Still "thriving" doesn't come to mind, whereas "shafted" and "screwed" do.

On "Christians vs. Muslims":

Tracing back from today ... all the way to Pope Urban II and the First Crusade, one would like to believe that one or two lessons have been absorbed. Perhaps not so. Whether Al Shabbab types are "genuine" Muslims, "represent all Muslims", etc. is actually a minor point---especially given that nobody has actually "proved" it---and care needs to be taken in rushing to claim that a tiny minority represents a majority, a religion, ... even when the minority asserts, however forcefully, such a claim.  

"Naturally", there will always be those who like such generalizations.  For example, for those in power, when called upon to "do something", such generalizations are a neat way to avoid the effort required to make distinctions, to think, to take a long-term and realistic view ....  "all the same! just lump all into one group and sort them out!". Bang, bang!  Simple like that. Or not.

But a careful look at history can sometimes help people avoid destructive, self-defeating activities. In modern times, in Africa, there are more immediate case studies: start with Nigeria as a "template".   These things always start small-small, and before you know it!

[kamalet]

Nov 25, 2014 20:00:57 GMT 3 Daktari wa makazi said:

Nov 25, 2014 16:51:00 GMT 3 kamalet said:

There are many reasons to be angry about the sheer callousness of the murder of innocent Kenyans whose only crime was not being muslim in the eyes of the killers. Sadik will very quickly go on the defensive of the religion of Islam that the Alshabaab do not act or defent muslims. Unfortunately he knows the truth very well - Alshabaab works under the cover and pretext of the religion of Islam. They will call those they disagree with Kaffirs or non-believers. But these characters are no different o the Kanyaris of this world who use religion for the wrong reasons.

The downside of the actions of alshabaab is that non-locals are leaving NEP in droves which means key professionals needed in the area desert it and sends the locals backwards. One can feel the reasons to flee the area as being justified but there is the part of the heart that tells you abandoning the local hospitals and schools makes innocent people suffer.Perhaps the way round it may be the locals making a genuine effort to report the criminals in their midst.

The situation in Mombasa where criminals use Mosques to preach hate and keep weapons is another unfortunate one. The local leadership should stop seeing the situation from a religion angle, but MUST deal with leadership of the mosques to ensure that the radicals that took them over can not go back. I believe there is a process of excommunication in most religions and the muslims need to do this to those abusing places of worship. The local leadership should do the right thing and insist on the mosques remaining closed until the management of the mosques is not in the hands of radical youths!

Alshababa is nothing to do with Islam even though they claim they are fighting in the religions name. That is a trite, which you well know.

So, why are you pretending that by closing Mosques or declaring illegal curfew - by the way all these actions are undertaken by atherere given power by atherere to defend illegal gained wealth by atherere - you will somehow vanquish alshabab?

Alshabab should be fought, a fight I am well aware Muslims have fought from within and without. That military sent illegally to Somalia also has in its midst Muslims sons and daughter - least athererere forgets - many son and daughter whom we have buried having returned in body-bags but atherere would never care to mention.

On a related matter, maybe you would like to tell us how you made your millions, Kamalet. I remember you confessing to not going to university, so one discerns with some A level education, albeit from Starehe, and a duo Kenyatta presidencies sandwiched between a Kibaki one make a muthee like you a very rich man. I raise that pertinent point because most Muslims I know including the Coasterians you gladly mentioned have been deprived of their wealth by tag-along-the-master atherere like your good yourself. You only need to look at Mpeketoni and see how many athereres found their way there courtesy of Kenyatta, the thief who died in a toilet. So, when the native folks of Mpeketoni demand their land back or claim their livelihood, should we all jump in hallelujah and call them terrorists. The same situation is only mirror image to the wider disquiet within the Muslims across the country.

I have no problem with the law taking its cause where a crime is detected – that is what any decent society would want their government to do. So go ahead and contain the insecurity, put practical policy to bolster security by giving ever Kenyan a sense of national pride. But, when Uhuru only recruitments Kikuyus for jobs in the security apparatus, turning national institution into little Agikuyu fiefdoms, it is not surprising when others do not want to play ball.

As for those leaving Mandera, well security is maintained by the government to whom people pay their taxes. So, if people are leaving because of insecurity, then in my view, the Uhuru government has failed. Mandera people may as well do their own security and keep their taxes to themselves and stop thieving friends from stealing their newly discovered oil and other resources while using those wealth for their wellbeing. With money and wealth, ever nomads with no education get served by the professionals - many of whom are athereres with no jobs at home.

Sadik

You can argue as much as you want about Alshabaab not being about religion gone wrong, but that does not change the fact that they claim their actions are guided by Islam. I am FULLY aware that there are many many genuine muslims offended by the actions of these Islamic reactionaries. You will note that I gave the example of christian charlatans like Kanyari who will use the name of God to steal from people. They actually do this in the name of Jesus who the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury preach and pray about! So yes we do have radicals in all religions who soil the name of God by their actions.

You can argue about the closure of mosques, but you are looking at it from a very narrow prism. The Imams of the mosques were flushed out by radicalised youths who took over the mosques and violence and hate were preached in those mosques. Do we still genuinely want to call those places holy and fit for good worship? I do not think so! I am sure if you were in a desecrated place, you will most unlike want to pray there!!!

I do not know how my personal life came into this debate and I much prefer you keep it out. You correctly note I went to Starehe but we were taught a work ethic that has served me well. You seem to belong to a group of people who do not believe success can come ones way without stealing . You are in an unfortunate group of people and I can only point you to hard work which brings success!

[Daktari wa makazi]

Nov 26, 2014 7:26:24 GMT 3 kamalet said:

Nov 25, 2014 20:00:57 GMT 3 Daktari wa makazi said:

Alshababa is nothing to do with Islam even though they claim they are fighting in the religions name. That is a trite, which you well know.

So, why are you pretending that by closing Mosques or declaring illegal curfew - by the way all these actions are undertaken by atherere given power by atherere to defend illegal gained wealth by atherere - you will somehow vanquish alshabab?

Alshabab should be fought, a fight I am well aware Muslims have fought from within and without. That military sent illegally to Somalia also has in its midst Muslims sons and daughter - least athererere forgets - many son and daughter whom we have buried having returned in body-bags but atherere would never care to mention.

On a related matter, maybe you would like to tell us how you made your millions, Kamalet. I remember you confessing to not going to university, so one discerns with some A level education, albeit from Starehe, and a duo Kenyatta presidencies sandwiched between a Kibaki one make a muthee like you a very rich man. I raise that pertinent point because most Muslims I know including the Coasterians you gladly mentioned have been deprived of their wealth by tag-along-the-master atherere like your good yourself. You only need to look at Mpeketoni and see how many athereres found their way there courtesy of Kenyatta, the thief who died in a toilet. So, when the native folks of Mpeketoni demand their land back or claim their livelihood, should we all jump in hallelujah and call them terrorists. The same situation is only mirror image to the wider disquiet within the Muslims across the country.

I have no problem with the law taking its cause where a crime is detected – that is what any decent society would want their government to do. So go ahead and contain the insecurity, put practical policy to bolster security by giving ever Kenyan a sense of national pride. But, when Uhuru only recruitments Kikuyus for jobs in the security apparatus, turning national institution into little Agikuyu fiefdoms, it is not surprising when others do not want to play ball.

As for those leaving Mandera, well security is maintained by the government to whom people pay their taxes. So, if people are leaving because of insecurity, then in my view, the Uhuru government has failed. Mandera people may as well do their own security and keep their taxes to themselves and stop thieving friends from stealing their newly discovered oil and other resources while using those wealth for their wellbeing. With money and wealth, ever nomads with no education get served by the professionals - many of whom are athereres with no jobs at home.

Sadik

You can argue as much as you want about Alshabaab not being about religion gone wrong, but that does not change the fact that they claim their actions are guided by Islam. I am FULLY aware that there are many many genuine muslims offended by the actions of these Islamic reactionaries. You will note that I gave the example of christian charlatans like Kanyari who will use the name of God to steal from people. They actually do this in the name of Jesus who the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury preach and pray about! So yes we do have radicals in all religions who soil the name of God by their actions.

You can argue about the closure of mosques, but you are looking at it from a very narrow prism. The Imams of the mosques were flushed out by radicalised youths who took over the mosques and violence and hate were preached in those mosques. Do we still genuinely want to call those places holy and fit for good worship? I do not think so! I am sure if you were in a desecrated place, you will most unlike want to pray there!!!

I do not know how my personal life came into this debate and I much prefer you keep it out. You correctly note I went to Starehe but we were taught a work ethic that has served me well. You seem to belong to a group of people who do not believe success can come ones way without stealing . You are in an unfortunate group of people and I can only point you to hard work which brings success!

Well, I hold not brief for alshabab, they can speak for themselves and they often do so with catastrophic consequence. It suffices for me to say I read somewhere in the press today, that there is a gigantic numbers of Somalis in Somalia and others places who have been killed by alshabab and are rarely mentioned in the press. So if your argumensts are right and If indeed they are fighting in the name of islam, why kill their own?

The bigger point here is the reaction by Uhuru and his foot soldiers.Instead of turning their fire on alshabab, they seems to concentrate on the poor Muslim, whose only fault is being a Muslim. I was told that Moses Kuria - the adopted son of Kenyatta, now a Gatundu MP is calling for Muslims to be slaughtered in an eye for an eye style. See, the problem here is not Muslims - so if Kuria and his family have issues with alshabab why don’t they take the fight to them, not scapegoating each and every Muslims. Such a pea-size brain - he simply forgot that there are Kikuyu Muslims - will he also call for their slaughter? Kuria has a voice and is made an MP but have every little to show for in the mind.

Work ethics - those are very good words but I doubt if you really know their meaning. In 2005, I went home to built a house. While in Kenya, I came across a press story of, Margaret Gachar the then director of the National AIDS Control Council. I attended her arraigned in the High Court and can report that she was found guilty of defrauding the government some Kshs 30 million. She spent a very short time in jail, and to my surprise Mwai Kibaki pardoned her, along with 7,000 "petty offenders" who had stolen from various government offices. Todate, I have not seen that list of those 7,000 ‘petty offenders’ but my guess is good as yours who are the majority. Work ethic, indeed. As Otis would say, kazi iendelea

[podp]

Nov 26, 2014 20:50:10 GMT 3 Daktari wa makazi said:

Nov 26, 2014 7:26:24 GMT 3 kamalet said:

Sadik


Well, I hold not brief for alshabab, they can speak for themselves and they often do with catastrophic consequence. It suffices for me to say I read someone in the press today, that there is a gigantic huge numbers of Somalis in Somalia and others places who have been killed by alshabab and are rarely mentioned in the press. So if your argumensts are right and If indeed they are fighting in the name of islam, why kill their own?

The bigger point here is the reaction by Uhuru and his foot soldiers.Instead of turning their fire on alshabab, they seems to concentrate on the poor Muslim, whose only fault is being a Muslim. I was told that Moses Kuria - the adopted son of Kenyatta, now a Gatundu MP is calling for Muslims to be slaughtered in an eye for an eye style. See, the problem here is not Muslims - so if Kuria and his family have issues with alshabab why don’t they take the fight to them, not scapegoating each and every Muslims. Such a pea-size brain - he simply forgot that there are Kikuyu Muslims - will he also call for their slaughter? Kuria has a voice and is made an MP but have every little to show for in the mind.

Work ethics - those are very good words but I doubt if you really know their meaning. In 2005, I went home to built a house. While in Kenya, I came across a press story of, Margaret Gachar the then director of the National AIDS Control Council. I attended her arraigned in the High Court and can report that she was found guilty of defrauding the government some Kshs 30 million. She spent a very short time in jail, and to my surprise Mwai Kibaki pardoned her, along with 7,000 "petty offenders" who had stolen from various government offices. Todate, I have not seen that list of those 7,000 ‘petty offenders’ but my guess is good as yours who are the majority. Work ethic, indeed. As Otis would say, kazi iendelea

1st red high light

The Culture of Death is a very broad term, which describes evil behavior. It goes beyond the mere evil acts, however. In the deepest sense, it describes the attraction our culture has with sin, lust, and death. Our culture not only permits, but promotes abortion, euthanasia, murder, revenge, suicide (assisted or otherwise), war, capital punishment, contraception, human cloning, human sterilization, embryonic stem cell and fetal research, In Vitro Fertilization, homosexuality, promiscuity, infidelity, and divorce. These proclivities lead to the destruction of life and its natural origins. They devalue human life, leading to an explosion of all types of sins. When we do not value human life, we do not value people.

www.solemncharge.com/post/2012/10/19/What-is-the-Culture-of-Death-The-Catholic-Meaning.aspx

obviously you would not be that way and condone a culture of death displayed by the Al Shabaab, ISIS, Boko Haram, etc. terror related groups that are coming up all over our part of the world.

2nd red high light

the Uhuruto reincarnate playing the devil advocate has been barred from commenting further on his hash tag. he has also deposited bond with the courts so that he can continue roaming freely as the young men who stripped a lady in Kayole were until early this evening. what two separate incidences below show speaks volumes of re birth of a more terrible version of Mungiki than we had when late Michuki was alive

mobile.nation.co.ke/news/Women-recall-terror-of-stripping-threats/-/1950946/2535086/-/format/xhtml/-/ft3mh6z/-/index.html

3rd red high light

this sounds like the chicken gate saga. it is well entrenched in our system.

In contemporary parlance, what was going on at both the IEBC and Knec is referred to as entrenched bureaucratic corruption.

Entrenched bureaucratic corruption is tenacious and generates a kind of equilibrium. This is what you see as you read through the emails. Indeed, this saga was not about individuals or particular officials, but about an environment where too many officers were engaged in freelance rent-seeking.

www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/The-art-of-eating-chicken-and-how-multinationals-export/-/440808/2534856/-/y49alnz/-/index.html

so in a nut shell what the Kurias, the work ethic proponents etc are trying to sell is a fatal myth. always it is the locals who suffer more fatalities than the intended victims, from the days of Mau Mau (yesterday Senator Kiraitu was revealing how the British colonialists recruited local Gikuyu and Meru who infiltrated the Mau Mau ranks and were able to know the footpaths, caves, plans ...making it easier for the British colonialists to deal lethal blows on locals - both home guards and re`l freedom fighters(. a similar macabre scenario is happening elsewhere where ISIS is wrecking havoc.

It is thought that although hundreds of Kobane civilians have been killed in the fighting that at least 40 ISIS fighters, all foreigners, were killed at the weekend.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/streets-horror-isis-putting-heads-4432721

[OtishOtish]

Nov 26, 2014 21:55:12 GMT 3 podp said:

1st red high light

The Culture of Death is a very broad term, which describes evil behavior. It goes beyond the mere evil acts, however. In the deepest sense, it describes the attraction our culture has with sin, lust, and death. Our culture not only permits, but promotes abortion, euthanasia, murder, revenge, suicide (assisted or otherwise), war, capital punishment, contraception, human cloning, human sterilization, embryonic stem cell and fetal research, In Vitro Fertilization, homosexuality, promiscuity, infidelity, and divorce. These proclivities lead to the destruction of life and its natural origins. They devalue human life, leading to an explosion of all types of sins. When we do not value human life, we do not value people.

www.solemncharge.com/post/2012/10/19/What-is-the-Culture-of-Death-The-Catholic-Meaning.aspx

obviously you would not be that way and condone a culture of death displayed by the Al Shabaab, ISIS, Boko Haram, etc. terror related groups that are coming up all over our part of the world.

I failed to see the connection:

(a) As far as I can tell, Al Shabaab, ISIS, Boko Haram are not the types who are for abortion, euthanasia, contraception, human cloning, human sterilization, embryonic stem cell and fetal research, In Vitro Fertilization, homosexuality, etc.  So, in that regard, the Pope's kind of people.

The "best" place for those is the "advanced, peaceful" Western countries ... the ones leading the "War on Terror".    And "all types of sins" are to be found all over the place.

(b) Sadik stated that he does not speak for Al Shabab and that they get their message through in their own unpleasant way.  On that basis, I would not raise the matter of whether he is "that way" or "condones" whatever.    He has made it clear enough.

[mank]

Nov 26, 2014 3:56:57 GMT 3 OtishOtish said:

Nov 26, 2014 1:51:46 GMT 3 mank said:

Sadik, how do you figure, you will succeed in disassociating AlShabab with Islam which they allege to champion, while at the same time claiming we have Kikuyu governments? To be clear, on the first point I would agree with you. But because of the second point, I think you should not be taken seriously.

I think the "second point" ought to be split into "sub-points":

(a) "Blanket punishment by Kikuyu government of Muslims is well documented."

Does Kenya have a "Kikuyu government"? Is its "punishment" of Muslims well-documented? Discuss.

(b) "The excuse that by closing Mosques, alshabab will not have foot soldiers is simply myopic."

The history of such things does suggest that it is a stupid and (ultimately) a counter-productive action. But there is little to suggest that Kenya has ever had a leadership that was known for clear and far-sighted thinking.

(c) "Uhuru and his thieving clowns need to return the land and wealth to Muslims communities which they have plundered for years."

Just who has stolen what and how long they have been plundering might not be clear, especially with the TJRC report dead and buried on arrival. But just recently a little "outsourced" mayhem from Al Shabab resulted in the sudden "discovery" and "reclamation" (by none other than the president) of a huge amount of stolen property. 

(d) "Starting from Nubians in Kibera to Somalis in Mandera and Banjunis in Lamu, Muslims communities have been left destitute in their own regions."

Perhaps "destitute" is open to discussion. Still "thriving" doesn't come to mind, whereas "shafted" and "screwed" do.

On "Christians vs. Muslims":

Tracing back from today ... all the way to Pope Urban II and the First Crusade, one would like to believe that one or two lessons have been absorbed. Perhaps not so. Whether Al Shabbab types are "genuine" Muslims, "represent all Muslims", etc. is actually a minor point---especially given that nobody has actually "proved" it---and care needs to be taken in rushing to claim that a tiny minority represents a majority, a religion, ... even when the minority asserts, however forcefully, such a claim.  

"Naturally", there will always be those who like such generalizations.  For example, for those in power, when called upon to "do something", such generalizations are a neat way to avoid the effort required to make distinctions, to think, to take a long-term and realistic view ....  "all the same! just lump all into one group and sort them out!". Bang, bang!  Simple like that. Or not.

But a careful look at history can sometimes help people avoid destructive, self-defeating activities. In modern times, in Africa, there are more immediate case studies: start with Nigeria as a "template".   These things always start small-small, and before you know it!

What makes the government Kikuyu?

[b6k]

Omundustrong, as much as I share your frustration in the Mandera killings I do think you've been overly harsh on our Muslim brethren. Take the Westgate siege (sieke for some) as an example. There were quite a number of Muslim casualties in the massacre at the mall one of whom was media personality Ruhila Adatya Sud. The selection of Christians probably started late in the attack only once the terrorists felt they had control of the situation. This should inform you that the sparing of Muslim lives only occurs when it suits them. After all, who are the majority of Al Shabaab victims in Somalia if not fellow Muslims? What about some of the heroes at Westgate? Isn't Abdi Haji, who went to the mall to save his brother (who just happens to be an ATPU agent), a Muslim? Didn't he end up rescuing scores of Christians in the early hours of the siege when the only thing between shoppers and the terrorists was a handful of undercover cops and a few armed civilians?

What we are seeing is not a Muslim vs Christian thing. Al Shabaab may wish to present the narrative as such but I would imagine they would just as gladly eliminate Muslims who don't agree with their violent cause. Don't fall for the wedge they're trying to put between Kenyan Christians & Muslims. That said I can fully understand why civil servants posted in North Eastern want out. But if they leave en masse then sadly the terrorists win.

If as hinted at by WSR another AMISOM country (Ethiopia?) is in charge of the sector that faces Mandera, what is stopping the government from deploying KDF troops on the Kenya side of the border in hotspots to act as a rapid response unit to any such attacks? Why are buses moving at in the dead of night 4 AM without armed escorts? Why are we fully trusting an AMISOM colleague to police our border from the Somalia side when the responsibility still lies with us to protect it from the Kenya side?

When you talk of unemployment and other issues affecting the youth not radicalizing other areas keep in mind it's just a question of opportunity. There will always be those who are willing to exploit certain conditions of hopelessness to meet their own ends. The day these other areas get their "godfather" expect mayhem much like we had in Central Province had its stint with Mungiki or Kisii with Sungu Sungu. There's no telling how those scenarios would've played out if they had arms similar to the kind used at Kapedo, Mpeketoni or Mandera.

In closing I would urge you to tone down the language when making your argument. Moses Kuria was hauled into court yesterday for Tweeting sentiments pretty similar to yours & he's an MP, a fact it looks like he tends to forget. He can speak freely in the National Assembly & would probably get away with just having to "apologize & withdraw" his statement. However when he posts such things online, not even his office can save him from the consequences of his words. He currently has two cases in court for speaking loosely on social media. I hope you don't intend to follow in his footsteps...

[jakaswanga]

Strong Omundu,

The headline you chose for this thread scares me ndugu! I would have preferred to keep kenya outside the Muslim-Christian sectarianism, because as a matter of fact, intra-Somali, intra Muslim violence in the Mandera-Garissa area, has claimed more lives in the past year than inter (Christian/Muslim) religious strife. Somali Muslim clans have been warring in the North East over water and other trade routes.

Internationally, there is a narrative of Christian armies raining death on Muslims. Osama bin Ladin made a big point of it. Pointing to the two gulf-wars as RESIDUES OF CRUSADER MENTALITY! With over 700,000 deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan accounted to Western allied bombings, when the question is asked why are Muslims butchering Christians, it appears to be a denial of the international situation. Yeah, in this inter-religious murder on a global stage, it is the Christians and their high=tech armies who are the leading slaughterers of Muslims!

I find the clash of religions a very scary sh!t! a narrative I wish Kenya to escape. In six months, this Christian-Muslim cannon of thought, wholly destroyed CAR, the central African republic.

[b6k]

Jakaswanga, methinks Omundustrong is simply being human by strongly reacting to that which hits close to home, if his moniker is a hint at his origins. Haven't we seen the same kind of reactions from El president over the last year & a bit? Let's catalog the major ones:

(1) WESTGATE: Upper class target in the heart of the capital with globally cosmopolitan victims including kasini & his fiance making it very personal. Robust condemnation & response even going to the lengths of getting Agwambo on board to present a united front against terror.

(2) MPEKETONI: Having occurred in a settlement scheme created by Jomo Senior victims were predominantly (not exclusively mind you) from one region. Robust condemnation & response regrettably hinting at Agwambo's involvement even when Al Shabaab eagerly accepted responsibility of the attacks. The old ethnic charge last seen during PEV reared its ugly head on this one all evidence pointing to terrorists notwithstanding.

(3) KAPEDO: Attack against state agents culminating in the theft of state weapons. Robust response & condemnation at site complete with ultimatum on return of stolen firearms

(4) MANDERA: Attack against low end civil servants (22 of whom hailed from Western) in a remote outpost. Muted response with statement read by deputy during the F1 weekend. Unverifiable action taken in Somalia with no proof that it achieved it's objective.

So clearly when terror hits close to home, expect the reaction to be emotional & maduong...