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Post by mwalimumkuu on Oct 27, 2015 16:19:48 GMT 3
The DP's William Ruto attorneys have finally filed the 'No Case to Answer' motion, a very interesting 95 solid pages read. Check it out. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by kamalet on Oct 28, 2015 13:28:07 GMT 3
If the motion had been filed in a Mutunga court, Ruto would be celebrating prematurely! Unfortunately it is that kangaroo court called the ICC with some of the most wierd rulings that has to decide on this case......and I would not even suggest that Ruto contemplates an acquittal!!
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 6, 2015 15:41:23 GMT 3
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Post by kamalet on Nov 16, 2015 12:42:48 GMT 3
It would appear that the Rule 68 issue will be a real issue for debate at the ASP this week. Our honorable MPs are sending 100 of their members to the Hague in a bipartisan approach to this issue. The Kenya government with a lot of support from the Attorney Generals of the AU is also making its case. Not to be left behind the "hactivists" appear to have unleashed their members and "sponsors" (and this sounds like a Vera Sidika moment )to go and campaign against the issue. This email trail surfaced on the internet and and has gone viral and shows how our "brothers" operate.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Nov 16, 2015 17:49:46 GMT 3
Kamale:Absolutely. Here is Fat(ou) Bensouda taking the exact position the cevil society seem to have taken: Three ICC principals have asked the ASP to avoid matters that would undermine the court during its 14th session set for November 18 to 25. The ICC president, registrar and prosecutor said several issues proposed for discussion fall under the courts' judicial and prosecutorial competence. Kenya wants the ASP to touch on the use of recanted witness statements in revising discussions on Rule 68 that were conducted at its meeting two years ago. Jubilee MPs want the ASP to reverse the rule, which the ICC judges used to admit prior recorded testimony against Deputy President William Ruto. "The appropriate forum to discuss and contest judicial matters is in the judicial proceedings before the Court," President Silvia de Gurmendi, Registrar Herman Hebel and Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda said. In a signed letter to ASP President Sidiki Kaba dated November 13, they said the Chambers of the Court is still considering some of the matters. "The Assembly must refrain from any action that interfere with the ICC judicial independence," the principals said of the meeting at The World Forum in The Netherlands. They said the ASP will continue to safeguard the independence of the ICC's judicial process adding "it is vital to the integrity of the Rome Statute". "In this context therefore, we urge you to ensure the judicial and prosecutorial independence is not undermined or perceived to be undermined by proceedings of the Assembly," read the letter. Kenya appealed the decision to allow the Prosecutor to use recanted evidence against Ruto and Journalist Joshua Sang, who are facing crimes against humanity charges. Last Friday, the AU's Justice ministers and Attorneys General said the union would back Kenya in its fight against the use of the evidence against Ruto. They reiterated that the court has decided to use the evidence contrary to the agreement reached during talks on Rule 68 at the 12th Assembly of States Parties (ASP) in 2013. www.the-star.co.ke/news/icc-opposes-kenya-request-asp-revisit-rule-recanted-evidence#sthash.Ad5POX7t.dpuf~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by kamalet on Nov 17, 2015 9:55:21 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu
The problem of being anti-govt usually opens you up to being followed and your electronic communications hacked. Most governments do this to terrorists and people they perceive as enemies of the state.
This email hack (for that is what I think it is) was intended to open up a conversation on how these 'hactivists' behave, and lends credence to the usual accusations made on the likes of Kiai on their role of witness procurement for financial gain. What is really sad is that these guys will readily "sell their country" (as a mzee told me last night) for 7 pieces of silver and they are actually worse than the Kanyaris of this world who fleece people for monetary gain!
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Post by phil on Nov 17, 2015 10:53:43 GMT 3
What a pathetic piece of forgery. The email hack lacks the natural flow, and its obvious even in its formating that its a fraud. When will you guys learn? And @kamale comes to the Jukwaa board expecting everyone to swallow such amateurish propaganda.
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Post by podp on Nov 17, 2015 16:37:29 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu The problem of being anti-govt usually opens you up to being followed and your electronic communications hacked. Most governments do this to terrorists and people they perceive as enemies of the state. This email hack (for that is what I think it is) was intended to open up a conversation on how these 'hactivists' behave, and lends credence to the usual accusations made on the likes of Kiai on their role of witness procurement for financial gain. What is really sad is that these guys will readily "sell their country" (as a mzee told me last night) for 7 pieces of silver and they are actually worse than the Kanyaris of this world who fleece people for monetary gain! my concern primarily is people died, we are told above 1,000 and the saddest thing is our own police, public prosecution etc. have not done anything to bring to book even the petty offenders i.e. looters followed by felons i.e. rapists and lastly killers of those 1,000+ Kenyans. it is mainly when rule of law is seen to work that the NGO activists will be out of work as they will have nothing to report. back to the red high light which to me is of tertiary importance. history has many lessons for those who may not wish to repeat the follies of tester year. "Traitors! Rascals! Mutiny, would you?" he shouted when he addressed the ... What price did you get for selling your country . . . take a good look at these traitors. This is from "The Tide at Sunrise: A History of the Russo-Japanese War, 1904-05 " "The Washing of the Spears: The Rise and Fall of the Zulu Nation" also gives valuable lessons in personalities from the brilliant, psychopathic and yet strangely pathetic Shaka to the doomed romantic naivete of Louis Napoleon come colorfully alive in the narrative. why the above. we are busy discussing the Kiai's of the NGO world as if they use Kenyan tax payers money for the activities they do, which dooms us to discussing World Bank, IMF and other FDI yet the 10 years of Kibaki rule we learnt to depend on ourselves as concerns our revenue collections and their expenditure, save the Anglo Leasing low points. so what should we do to stop the Kiai's getting funding from whatever foreign sources they do? continue killing each other and pretending we have reconciled and NO CASE TO ANSWER: DP WILLIAM RUTO TO ICC? continue the prayers?
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Post by kamalet on Nov 19, 2015 8:32:08 GMT 3
What a pathetic piece of forgery. The email hack lacks the natural flow, and its obvious even in its formating that its a fraud. When will you guys learn? And @kamale comes to the Jukwaa board expecting everyone to swallow such amateurish propaganda. So typical of Cord hacks.....do you deny the presence of the characters at the Hague? Is Kegoro at the Hague or not? Is Ndung'u Wainaina at the Hague or not?
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 19, 2015 23:42:17 GMT 3
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Post by kamalet on Nov 20, 2015 13:18:36 GMT 3
Jakaswanga Please see the email Phil wants to dismiss as fake and notice the Star Reporter quoted in the emails is also the one writing this article....! But then was it not a cardinal sin in 2013 when the Rule 68 was amended even when the matter was under judicial consideration (and that amendment is being applied now)? We need to be treated to a bit of honesty!
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 21, 2015 23:03:14 GMT 3
Uhuru and Ruto have a great deal to answer for. They know it, and we know it. But it is clear that they will not answer for anything---at least in conventional ways---given the extent to which they have bribed and intimated or finished witnesses, the extent to which they have used the government machinery to avoid justice, etc.
So how can victims get justice? I think they should consider unconventional approaches. A couple of people brave enough and willing to sacrifice themselves could get the job done.
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 21, 2015 23:32:35 GMT 3
It would appear that the Rule 68 issue will be a real issue for debate at the ASP this week. Our honorable MPs are sending 100 of their members to the Hague in a bipartisan approach to this issue. The Kenya government with a lot of support from the Attorney Generals of the AU is also making its case. Daily Nation on Mon: Kenya steps up war to suspend ICC 'Rule 68' www.nation.co.ke/news/Kenya-steps-up-war-on-ICC-rule/-/1056/2960626/-/st23owz/-/index.html
The Standard: Kenya, African Union ready for battle with International Criminal Court www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/?articleID=2000182921&story_title=kenya-african-union-ready-for-battle-with-icc
A Mr. Duale: "I can tell you that if the ASP rejects our demands, there will be a mas walkout by all AU members that support our position. The next alternative will be our withdrawal from the Rome Statute."
And so on, concluding a full week of threatened fireworks by the Kenyan media.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Well, the "great" event took occurred yesterday. It didn't look like a "real issue" to anyone, except some GoK types, such as Amina Mohamed, who gave an immature-joke of a speech, which largely consisted of emotional threats, insults, and attempted blackmail; she even implied that it was OK to kill Mungiki witnesses because they were terrorisst like those who just hit Paris! Raychelle Omamo "supported" her with some more extreme silliness that nobody could even begin to understand.
Most delegates simply indicated that they had no interest in the even discussing the matter. As the delegate from Costa Rica put it: "We could have a spirited debate, but our views are not what counts; the only competent authority on these issues is ICC." (Great round of applause to that.)
Some were a bit more blunt. E.g. the Swiss rep who stated that the ASP had shown Kenya flexibility in the past but that flexibility has limits. (That's diplomatese for "Kenyan delegates should stop being pests and f**k off".) The Canadian delegate also threw in a sly one to the nuts, by stating that people ought to know that the ASP is not an appeal court for the ICC. (That's diplomatese for "what kind of stupid ignorance is this now?")
On the 100 MPs: It looks like tyranny-of-numbers does not export well. But it did make an impression: some Dutch person noted that Kenya had more people there that the Dutch (in whose country the event is taking place).
On the "a lot of support from the Attorney Generals of the AU": It was nowhere to be seen; even The Mortician was not there. As I recall, only 3 African delegates spoke in favour of discussing GoK's funny ideas; a few more African countries spoke against. All the other African delegates couldn't be bothered to say anything at all. (But they will get into a mass walkout?)
So, there was some sort of "discussion" yesterday as to whether Kenya's request on Rule 68 should be discussed, but with only 4 or 5 countries (including Kenya) interested in such a discussion, the matter is pretty much dead.
_________________________________________________________________________________________ Mr. Duale at the end of the day: “The majority of European countries opposed our agenda. We now know who our friends and enemies are.”
I suppose they will be punished with a reduction in the export of tea and flowers. Or is it time for parliament to pass yet another motion to withdraw from the ICC?
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 22, 2015 2:48:55 GMT 3
What a pathetic piece of forgery. The email hack lacks the natural flow, and its obvious even in its formating that its a fraud. When will you guys learn? And @kamale comes to the Jukwaa board expecting everyone to swallow such amateurish propaganda. So typical of Cord hacks.....do you deny the presence of the characters at the Hague? Is Kegoro at the Hague or not? Is Ndung'u Wainaina at the Hague or not? It is not clear why the presence of those people at the Hague should cause so much excitement. As far as I know: (a) they usually attend the annual ASP session, and (b) they always do an admirable job of opposing GoK lies and propaganda. The issue here seems to be the forgery and perhaps the "CORD hacks" are not amused by the Tinga bit: The email supposedly comes from Maina Kiai<kiai@ohcr.org> On that, Kiai has this to say: www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Propaganda-and-misinformation-will-not-make-country-any-better/-/440808/2964718/-/9aq8lg/-/index.htmlBut ohchr.org = Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) and we have www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/AssemblyAssociation/Pages/MainaKiaibio.aspxGetting one's forgeries done on River Road might save costs, but it has its risks. Why Githongo would be giving media briefings at such an event is far from clear. Gladwell seems to have changed her mind about travelling and has been landing many heavy blows on Mohamed, Duale, MPigs, etc. The "emails" also point to an upcoming meeting with Tinga, in France. Has he been there yet this month? The meeting is to be joined by one Vincent Airal, First Secretary of the French Embassy. This Airal is also to "confirm the status of the countries listed". Interesting. There is indeed a Vincent Airal, First Secretary French Embassy---in Serbia. And he does not appear to have had any connection with any ICC matter.
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Post by kamalet on Nov 23, 2015 13:09:57 GMT 3
Uhuru and Ruto have a great deal to answer for. They know it, and we know it. But it is clear that they will not answer for anything---at least in conventional ways---given the extent to which they have bribed and intimated or finished witnesses, the extent to which they have used the government machinery to avoid justice, etc. So how can victims get justice? I think they should consider unconventional approaches. A couple of people brave enough and willing to sacrifice themselves could get the job done. [/quote] The victims will get justice when the right people who are also found guilty are convicted and jailed! They will not get justice by jailing Jakaswanga and Mwalimumkuu!
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Post by kamalet on Nov 23, 2015 13:18:31 GMT 3
It would appear that the Rule 68 issue will be a real issue for debate at the ASP this week. Our honorable MPs are sending 100 of their members to the Hague in a bipartisan approach to this issue. The Kenya government with a lot of support from the Attorney Generals of the AU is also making its case. Daily Nation on Mon: Kenya steps up war to suspend ICC 'Rule 68' www.nation.co.ke/news/Kenya-steps-up-war-on-ICC-rule/-/1056/2960626/-/st23owz/-/index.html
The Standard: Kenya, African Union ready for battle with International Criminal Court www.standardmedia.co.ke/m/?articleID=2000182921&story_title=kenya-african-union-ready-for-battle-with-icc
A Mr. Duale: "I can tell you that if the ASP rejects our demands, there will be a mas walkout by all AU members that support our position. The next alternative will be our withdrawal from the Rome Statute."
And so on, concluding a full week of threatened fireworks by the Kenyan media.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Well, the "great" event took occurred yesterday. It didn't look like a "real issue" to anyone, except some GoK types, such as Amina Mohamed, who gave an immature-joke of a speech, which largely consisted of emotional threats, insults, and attempted blackmail; she even implied that it was OK to kill Mungiki witnesses because they were terrorisst like those who just hit Paris! Raychelle Omamo "supported" her with some more extreme silliness that nobody could even begin to understand.
this 'silliness' and the 'immature-joke' opinion is yours alone, but clearly shows your objectivity!! Most delegates simply indicated that they had no interest in the even discussing the matter. As the delegate from Costa Rica put it: " We could have a spirited debate, but our views are not what counts; the only competent authority on these issues is ICC." (Great round of applause to that.) ...but you fail to add that the cheering was from the CSO corner who were later floodlit until the complained! Some were a bit more blunt. E.g. the Swiss rep who stated that the ASP had shown Kenya flexibility in the past but that flexibility has limits. (That's diplomatese for "Kenyan delegates should stop being pests and f**k off".) The Canadian delegate also threw in a sly one to the nuts, by stating that people ought to know that the ASP is not an appeal court for the ICC. (That's diplomatese for "what kind of stupid ignorance is this now?") Do you see the hand of Siri Walt based on the Swiss comment? The Canada statement was pretty much the same as the Costa Rica one or Botswana for that matter! On the 100 MPs: It looks like tyranny-of-numbers does not export well. But it did make an impression: some Dutch person noted that Kenya had more people there that the Dutch (in whose country the event is taking place). On the "a lot of support from the Attorney Generals of the AU": It was nowhere to be seen; even The Mortician was not there. As I recall, only 3 African delegates spoke in favour of discussing GoK's funny ideas; a few more African countries spoke against. All the other African delegates couldn't be bothered to say anything at all. (But they will get into a mass walkout?) The AU statement was read by Ethiopia representing the views of the Africa Group.... So, there was some sort of "discussion" yesterday as to whether Kenya's request on Rule 68 should be discussed, but with only 4 or 5 countries (including Kenya) interested in such a discussion, the matter is pretty much dead. [/p] [/quote] The matter was actually debated and forwarded to the 18 member ASP bureau to come up with the resolution to be voted for later this week. That cannot be as dead as you suggest! [/p] _________________________________________________________________________________________ Mr. Duale at the end of the day: “The majority of European countries opposed our agenda. We now know who our friends and enemies are.”
I suppose they will be punished with a reduction in the export of tea and flowers. Or is it time for parliament to pass yet another motion to withdraw from the ICC?
[/quote] It obviously means you do not understand the import of a Kenyan withdrawal from the ICC!
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Post by podp on Nov 24, 2015 8:54:48 GMT 3
Kenyan politicians flocked to the chief prosecutor’s door last week to try to intimidate her as they did the witnesses. This should be an indication to ASP of the truth about the so-called recanted testimony. The witnesses, who have now been termed hostile, were clearly intimidated and threatened, not coached. They withdrew their testimony for fear of being victimised because their evidence was against those who are now in the seat of power. African politicians at The Hague meeting do not represent the people of Africa. The Kenyan politicians who attended the ASP meeting did not represent the wishes of Kenyans. The African Union has not addressed the issues of the more than 1,300 innocent Kenyans who were killed in cold blood during the post-election violence and the more than 6,500 who were uprooted from their homes and are now living in camps in Kenya and neighbouring Uganda. The AU failed to stop the Kenyan massacre because it is biased and always favours those in power. www.nation.co.ke/oped/Letters/Politicians-who-went-to-intimidate-ICC-dont-represent-Kenyans/-/440806/2968540/-/kmtveb/-/index.htmlbelow that story in Nation newspaper, 10 respondents asked "will the MP's trip to the Hague help Deputy President William Ruto's case at the ICC?' all answered No
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Post by kamalet on Nov 24, 2015 9:57:37 GMT 3
Kenyan politicians flocked to the chief prosecutor’s door last week to try to intimidate her as they did the witnesses. This should be an indication to ASP of the truth about the so-called recanted testimony. The witnesses, who have now been termed hostile, were clearly intimidated and threatened, not coached. They withdrew their testimony for fear of being victimised because their evidence was against those who are now in the seat of power. African politicians at The Hague meeting do not represent the people of Africa. The Kenyan politicians who attended the ASP meeting did not represent the wishes of Kenyans. The African Union has not addressed the issues of the more than 1,300 innocent Kenyans who were killed in cold blood during the post-election violence and the more than 6,500 who were uprooted from their homes and are now living in camps in Kenya and neighbouring Uganda. The AU failed to stop the Kenyan massacre because it is biased and always favours those in power. www.nation.co.ke/oped/Letters/Politicians-who-went-to-intimidate-ICC-dont-represent-Kenyans/-/440806/2968540/-/kmtveb/-/index.htmlbelow that story in Nation newspaper, 10 respondents asked "will the MP's trip to the Hague help Deputy President William Ruto's case at the ICC?' all answered No PODP First I think you overrate the Kenyan MP that they can intimidate Bensouda. They do not need to deal with her and all they needed do was make their case to the ASP. Bensouda is not ASP! As to the witnesses being intimidated, threatened and not being coached, that is a position you are entitled to just as the Ruto team is entitled to conclude they were coached and being forced to appear in court and recanting their statements on oath is an indication of truth. I keep hearing that African politicians and even Kenyan MPs do not represent the wishes of Kenyans. SO what is the point of electing them if you do not want them to represent your wishes. You get what you pay for! JUST HOW have the issue of more than 1300 dead not been addressed? The matter is being actively canvassed in the ICC hearing and those hearings must be for the victims!No one wants the court not to hear the matter that would bring justice for the victims. But can you honestly answer if they get justice when the wrong people are convicted (Note the Ruto defence argue his is innocent) or even when the accused is acquitted for a sloppy job by the prosecution? The way the case has gone, it is increasingly clear that OTP has the wrong people on the dock and victims actually told Bensouda as much when she was last in Kenya. A misconception has been created that Kenya wants rule 68 reversed and there is a belief that this will kill the Ruto case. Kenya does not want the rule reversed and all it wants is the clarification that the change made in 2013 does not have retroactive effect purely to protect the rights of an accused. To any reasonable person it would be unfair to change rules of the game just to win the game! Whatever happens at the ASP or even in the appeal court will have an effect on justice for the victims. I think most people would want the people truly responsible punished for the crimes of 2007/8, but they must also want the right people punished!
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Post by podp on Nov 24, 2015 12:27:12 GMT 3
KPODP First I think you overrate the Kenyan MP that they can intimidate Bensouda. They do not need to deal with her and all they needed do was make their case to the ASP. Bensouda is not ASP! As to the witnesses being intimidated, threatened and not being coached, that is a position you are entitled to just as the Ruto team is entitled to conclude they were coached and being forced to appear in court and recanting their statements on oath is an indication of truth. I keep hearing that African politicians and even Kenyan MPs do not represent the wishes of Kenyans. SO what is the point of electing them if you do not want them to represent your wishes. You get what you pay for! JUST HOW have the issue of more than 1300 dead not been addressed? The matter is being actively canvassed in the ICC hearing and those hearings must be for the victims!No one wants the court not to hear the matter that would bring justice for the victims. But can you honestly answer if they get justice when the wrong people are convicted (Note the Ruto defence argue his is innocent) or even when the accused is acquitted for a sloppy job by the prosecution? The way the case has gone, it is increasingly clear that OTP has the wrong people on the dock and victims actually told Bensouda as much when she was last in Kenya. A misconception has been created that Kenya wants rule 68 reversed and there is a belief that this will kill the Ruto case. Kenya does not want the rule reversed and all it wants is the clarification that the change made in 2013 does not have retroactive effect purely to protect the rights of an accused. To any reasonable person it would be unfair to change rules of the game just to win the game! Whatever happens at the ASP or even in the appeal court will have an effect on justice for the victims. I think most people would want the people truly responsible punished for the crimes of 2007/8, but they must also want the right people punished!1st red high light is best t covered by the article that appeared from one who has kept on his side when party hopping happens. I strongly believe Deputy President William Ruto is an innocent man. In my view, he is not guilty of the charges leveled against him at the International Criminal Court (ICC). I have no qualms at all stating that he was a victim of a morbid conspiracy by a cabal of power-hungry characters around former President Mwai Kibaki who abused their offices to fix him. He was framed; the witnesses were procured by government shenanigans, and he was sacrificed on behalf of the ODM fraternity by the powers that be at the time. Read more at: www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000183179/ruto-is-a-victim-of-dark-forces-in-previous-administration-and-icc2nd red high light if we ever do the needful ICC would be history to us. a careful analysis of Indonesia's political actors, comparative studies in transitional justice, and the structural impact of trials in emerging democracies reveals that a strong domestic court - backed by international influence - best consolidates the rule of law. you can read the full article at www.princeton.edu/jpia/past-issues-1/2000/6.pdfgoing back a bit in history brings to the fore, an article written by John Dugald titled 'Dealing with crimes of a past regime. Is Amnesty still an option?' again one may read it at iilj.org/courses/documents/JohnDugardArticle.pdfwhat we have not shown in Kenya is any effort to bring the perpetrators, small timers (looters of properties i.e. theft) middle tires (e.g. rapists, killers) and of course the big timers (those in the Waki envelope) to book i.e. have them on the dock before some magistrates and/or judges in a court of law. the prevailing mood is that successor regimes are now told by the high priests of public opinion -read NGOs and scholars - not only that they ought to prosecute but that they are obliged under international law to prosecute. hence one can understand why after the Nusu Mkate or GNU government the dynamic duo, present PORK and his deputy fought tooth and nail to access power. their intention other than saving their skins from ICC was to be a good continuum to the GNU. no prosecution of perpetrators of past violence. so as long as they remain in power no goose will be cooked. 3rd red high light the arc of moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice so said Martin Luther King Jr. it is refreshing if more of us start to appreciate that one must live with the consequences of one's action. even if PORK and his deputy are completely innocent of what they were indicted to, some other persons are for the deaths and displacements of Kenyans. the fact that neither PORK nor his deputy has seen it fit to adopt and adapt "the prevailing mood is that successor regimes are now told by the high priests of public opinion -read NGOs and scholars - not only that they ought to prosecute but that they are obliged under international law to prosecute." says a lot about their own purported 'innocence' in the deaths and displacement of Kenyans during the PEV. to my mind they are part and parcel of what happened during the PEV and pretending that Kenyans will forgive one another based on the dynamic duo being PORK and deputy in perpetuity is a lullaby best sang to toddlers.
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 24, 2015 12:31:41 GMT 3
Kamalet,
I agree with you we should want the appropriate guilty punished. But we must thank ourselves for this mess. An otherwise routine criminal case was beyond our competence! We became an international football.
And now all these tears about wrong people persecuted! Had we just arrestee the right culprits years ago! Idiots that we are!
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Post by podp on Nov 26, 2015 15:15:54 GMT 3
we had the initial story as www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Ruto-ICC-hostile-witnesses-evidence/-/1064/2839514/-/n9t19gz/-/index.htmlsome hilarious comments on what we are experiencing as a people. from a fb friend after the ASP refused Kenya's agenda. "So a personal problem has evolved into a Kenyan problem where a few people die mysteriously and others are bribed to recant while Kenya takes a blackmail route - either withdraw rule 68 or Kenya quits. I think some people think Kenya is personal property. Some cheek." ENYA'S ARGUMENT Kenya’s intense lobbying at the ASP World Forum talks appeared not to have yielded the desired fruits, despite having sent a large delegation of politicians and government officials whose trip cost taxpayers millions of shillings in air fare and accommodation in the Dutch city. Kenya wants to convince the meeting — which makes laws for the International Criminal Court — that it was wrong for the court to use Rule 68. It argues that the rule is being applied retroactively in the case against Mr Ruto and Mr Sang. www.nation.co.ke/news/Anxiety-as-ICC-rule-talks-falter/-/1056/2973770/-/30bev2/-/index.htmlThe deadlock, which lasted hours, delayed the conclusion of the ASP meeting with Kaba being forced to abandon the main plenary for the ASP Bureau meeting to take charge of the negotiations. Tension was high as Kenyans waited on the final decision of the ASP Bureau to see if the bid by the Government to secure a resolution favourable to Ruto and Mr Sang was successful or not. Read more at: www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000183728/confusion-at-icc-over-push-to-bar-recanted-evidence-in-ruto-sang-cases?articleID=2000183728&story_title=confusion-at-international-criminal-court-over-push-to-bar-recanted-evidence-in-ruto-sang-cases&pageNo=2and the creme is On Thursday night, the 18-member ASP’s Bureau committee accepted Kenya’s agenda to drop the use of recanted evidence against the duo at the International Criminal Court (ICC). The Bureau’s report and recommendations were subsequently presented to the ASP Plenary which endorsed them, handing Ruto and Sang a big win. The resolution states in part, “Following the debate on the supplementary items ‘Review of the Application and implementation of Amendments to the Rules of Procedure and Evidence introduced at the 12th Assembly,’ the Assembly recalled its resolution ICC-ASP/12/Res.7 dated 27th November 2013 which amended rule 68 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence, which entered into force on the above date and consistent with the Rome Statute, reaffirmed its understanding that the amended rule 68 shall not be applied retroactively.” Read more at: www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000183788/big-win-for-ruto-sang-as-asp-accepts-to-abandon-use-of-rule-68/
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Post by KOLONEL BRISK on Nov 27, 2015 21:07:45 GMT 3
The 14th session of the Assembly of States Parties concluded late this evening. States adopted final resolutions on the Court’s 2016 budget, on cooperation and strengthening the ICC system. The Assembly elected a new member of the Trust Fund for Victims’ board and deleted article 124 from the Rome Statute, the ICC’s founding treaty.
After difficult negotiations and pressure throughout the week, the Assembly included in its final report language requested by the Kenyan government “affirming” the non-retroactive use of an ICC rule amended by the ASP in 2012 to allow the use of pre-recorded witness testimony in its proceedings. An appeal against the retroactive use of Rule 68 by the ICC prosecutor in the ongoing trial of Deputy Kenyan President William Ruto and broadcaster Joshua Sang is currently pending before the ICC Appeals Chamber. It remains for ICC appeals judges to decide on the application of Rule 68.
PLENARY SESSION
Rule 68 reference included in Assembly report
States parties approved to insert Kenya’s requested language on the non-retroactive use of amended Rule 68 on using pre-recorded witnesses testimony in the Assembly’s final report.
States did not include the language in the catch-all “omnibus resolution” on strengthening the ICC and ASP. The insertion of the requested Kenyan language in the final report holds no obligations for states or the ICC.
Kenya had requested that the Assembly “affirm” that the rule cannot be applied retroactively to ICC investigations begun before the 12th session of the ASP (when the rule came into force)
This retroactive use of rule 68 is currently before the ICC Appeals Chamber after the prosecutor used this new rule to introduce pre-recorded witness testimony in the ongoing trial of Kenyan Deputy President William Ruto and broadcaster Joshua Sang for allegedly orchestrating crimes against humanity during Kenya’s 2010-11 post-election violence.
It remains for ICC appeals judges to decide on the application of Rule 68.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Nov 28, 2015 6:26:46 GMT 3
Kolonel Brisk
I am not sure whether what you have up there is your own thoughts or a cut and paste from somewhere else. Whatever the case, the narrative seems to be pushing an angle which I have come to associate with the cievil society in the wake of what went down in the Hague at the #ASP14. In my view, a defeatist and defensive angle, meant to confuse us and probably allow them and the court to continue playing hanky-panky as they have done thus far.
Kenya went to the #ASP14 with only two issues on the cards: 1. That the assembly reaffirms that rule 68 as discussed and passed at #ASP12 was not meant to be applied retroactively, more specifically to the cases active before the ICC prior to October 2013. 2. That an oversight mechanism be put in place for purposes of reviewing or audit procedures through which witnesses were obtained by the OTP.
After painstaking negotiations that ran literally the entire period of the meeting, both requests by Kenya were granted and adopted by the assembly. Now the civil society has tried to push a narrative that since, Kenya's text was only included in a report and not in the omnibus, it is not legally binding and therefore has no effect on the manner in which judges will canvas the appeal and that the judges will and can choose to interpret the rule as they wish. There are two fallacies in this argument:
1. ASP's resolutions are passed either through the omnibus or reports of working group of the bureau. Indeed the changes to #Rule68 at #ASP12 were adopted by the plenary as a report. As you are aware, the judges of the trial chamber have already used this rule in Ruto and Sang case and argued that as written, the rule did not give any time frame. They further observed that ASP could and can rectify the situation as they have done in many other situations.
2. Whereas it is true that only the judge can deal with this matter, it is not entirely correct to argue that the judges are at liberty to decide whatever they wish, partly for reasons that I have already cited in 1 above; that the judges in allowing OTP to use recanted evidence observed that there was no time frame to the rule. This situation has now been dealt with at the just concluded ASP by making it clear that the law was never meant to be applied retroactively affecting cases that were already active before the amendment. Remember EU's protest at the beginning of the proceedings were that it was not correct for the assembly to take over the role of the court, a concern to which Kenya successfully explained itself; that they never intended the assembly to make a ruling, but to confirm that the rule was never meant to be applied as it has in the Kenyan case.
You can therefore see very clearly that Kenya knew from the beginning that, only the AC judges can make a determination on this matter. They however wanted the judge guided accordingly, which they have achieved. From where I sit therefore, the judges of the AC can only have one determination; the evidence is erroneously before the court and should be discarded. Any other ruling will be taking the ICC to the dogs and a confirmation that the cases' outcome have all along been predetermined.
My reading of the cievil society's effort and narrative is, they want to cloud the issue and cause confusion in the minds of Kenyans, thus clearing the way for the AC judges to agree with the misguided view of the trial chamber in furtherance of their ill motive. But as Ambassador Amina promised the assembly, we are now more vigilant than ever before. We now know for sure that we are dealing with very connish characters and will not stop at anything to call them out.
~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Nov 28, 2015 7:12:33 GMT 3
Meanwhile Hon. Pkosing's motion on audit of process of securing witnesses by OTP in the Kenyan case was admitted by the #ASP14 assembly. It will be remembered that OTP has been claiming that her witnesses were interfered with and that is why they have recanted their initial evidence, but have failed to provide any tangible evidence to this. The closest they have come is to harass a poor fellow called Baraza. Kenya through this motion is therefore calling OTP's bluff. Very interesting times ahead. Here is Hon. Pkising in his own words. www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000183798/statement-of-mp-david-pkosing-petitioner-at-assembly-of-state-parties~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by OtishOtish on Nov 28, 2015 16:48:43 GMT 3
Kenya went to the #ASP14 with only two issues on the cards: Yes, GoK had two requests, and it: (a) specifically asked that they the passed in resolutions, and (b) submitted drafts for the two resolutions. www.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/asp_docs/ASP14/ICC-ASP-14-35-Add2-ENG.pdf The ASP "reaffirmed its understanding" on non-retroactvity of the use of the amended Rule 68; but that "re-affirmation" is neither what some think it is, nor will it have the effect people think it will have. The part about a specific reference to cases started before Nov 2013 (not Oct) was not mentioned by the ASP. GOK's specific request was that the ASP: (Read that carefully. Then read it again.) This request was completely totally rejected. What then happened is that some clever chap in the Bureau then came up with a recommendation for the ASP: the ASP is to issue a statement to the effect that the ASP has already approved---this happened a couple of years ago---an "Independent Oversight Mechanism (IOM)" and the ASP "emphasizes" to the Bureau (the producers of the statement!) the "urgent" need to make it fully operational. APPROVED! The GoK delegation went wild with delight. WE WON! Hmmm. The "response" to GoK's request was that the Bureau got the ASP to remind the Bureau, in language drafted by the Bureau, of the need, which the Bureau was already fully aware of, to make the IOM fully operational. Amusing Diplomatic fuzz. It requires an all-neurons-turned-off state to even start to imagine an interpretation of all that as even approaching a real response to the funny GoK request. Pure fantasy. See the above. You people sometimes make up the strangest stuff. Resolutions are passed through resolutions, which is why they are called resolutions. That is Itumbi's line, and both of you have failed on basic homework: the changes were adopted via resolution number ICC-ASP/12/Res.7. (The reports of working groups are just that: reports on the work the groups have done, sometimes accompanied with some recommendations.)
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