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Post by 50cents on Aug 16, 2007 13:55:49 GMT 3
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Aug 16, 2007 17:27:22 GMT 3
the very existence of this site where some rabid anti-communists find a platform to attack the kenyan left is one manifestation of their existence.
i would urge you, like i did exhort the person who posted the article you have linked here to consult and re-examine kenya's contemporary history.
it always amazes me how some kenyans online have this pass time of stalking the kenyan left- even as they follow them everywhere to drink in their leftist, revolutionary views.
Onyango Oloo
Nairobi, Kenya
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Post by miguna on Aug 16, 2007 17:42:54 GMT 3
Nd. Oloo,
They want attention. Just ignore them.
Best prescription my mama gave me yeons ago. Works like magic.
MM
===========================================
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Post by aeichener on Aug 16, 2007 19:22:59 GMT 3
Answering the initial questioner - and ignoring our panting wannabe-mheshimiwa -, I would say that the Kenyan Left certainly do exist, and always did (Pio Gama Pinto e.g., as one of best-known names), but that a Kenyan Left does not exist. Yet.
Alexander
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Post by 50cents on Aug 16, 2007 19:36:12 GMT 3
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Post by japuonjni on Aug 16, 2007 19:41:41 GMT 3
MM & OO
There is a creepy crawly here in Jukwaa;stalking selected posts and threads,leaving behind smelly droppings.
With no self restraint and quality control, the bar may be lowered to the chagrin of the rest of us who are interested in enriching intellectual debates.
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Post by 50cents on Aug 16, 2007 20:04:16 GMT 3
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Post by aeichener on Aug 16, 2007 22:23:34 GMT 3
i would urge you, like i did exhort the person who posted the article you have linked here, to consult and re-examine kenya's contemporary history. Indeed Oloo, indeed. For Kenya's contemporary history since not-quite-uhuru is a single continuous story in many chapters, about how "the" Kenyan left, or rather the Kenyan leftists, have been disempowered, sidelined, even murdered. So, may I invite *you* to consult and examine Kenya's contemporary history. Such a study may, to pre-empt its result, show indeed that never before the historical surge of 2002/03, the time for a creation and consolidation of a possible Kenyan left movement (incorporating trade unions, wananchi, many well-educated jobless Kenyans intellectuals, some very [!] few diasporeans) was more favourable. A movement that has nothing to do with ODM-K, and nothing anymore with NARC. If - and that is the important "if" - if it were not for Kenyans themselves. Tribalists especially when abroad, unable to discuss political issues instead of persons, trapped in the quicksand of bigmanism and feudal loyalties or personalized hostilities: we indeed see political immaturity on a very deep and disconcerting level. At least here in Jukwaa. But once you go to shags or into the estates, you'll find people who are poor, uneducated, disempowered, are devoid of empty pseudo-academic titles which Kenyan so hold in awe, but who indeed have political judgement and a sense of what really counts. These are not "majestic", of course - but they are the people, and it is them who give an activist like you, Kathure, me or Osirisisgod a sense of purpose, rather than carpetbaggers like Miguna or hypocrites like Adongo. Alexander |
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Post by adongo12345 on Aug 16, 2007 23:09:18 GMT 3
i would urge you, like i did exhort the person who posted the article you have linked here, to consult and re-examine kenya's contemporary history. Indeed Oloo, indeed. For Kenya's contemporary history since not-quite-uhuru is a single continuous story in many chapters, about how "the" Kenyan left, or rather the Kenyan leftists, have been disempowered, sidelined, even murdered. So, may I invite *you* to consult and examine Kenya's contemporary history. Such a study may, to pre-empt its result, show indeed that never before the historical surge of 2002/03, the time for a creation and consolidation of a possible Kenyan left movement (incorporating trade unions, wananchi, many well-educated jobless Kenyans intellectuals, some very [!] few diasporeans) was more favourable. A movement that has nothing to do with ODM-K, and nothing anymore with NARC. If - and that is the important "if" - if it were not for Kenyans themselves. Tribalists especially when abroad, unable to discuss political issues instead of persons, trapped in the quicksand of bigmanism and feudal loyalties or personalized hostilities: we indeed see political immaturity on a very deep and disconcerting level. At least here in Jukwaa. But once you go to shags or into the estates, you'll find people who are poor, uneducated, disempowered, are devoid of empty pseudo-academic titles which Kenyan so hold in awe, but who indeed have political judgement and a sense of what really counts. These are not "majestic", of course - but they are the people, and it is them who give an activist like you, Kathure, me or Osirisisgod a sense of purpose, rather than carpetbaggers like Miguna or hypocrites like Adongo. Alexander I knew it wasn't going to take long before you dragged me into your increasingly creepy mud slinging business. Unfortunately I probably do not have much interest in discussing "the Kenyan Left" whatever that is, with you. One thing I see which is typical petty bourgeois thinking is the notion that being poor, disempowered or uneducated has anything to do with having socialist leanings. The other misguided heckling is the idea that leftists and I hope we are not talking about anarchists and troskyites have to work in "pure" organizations away from the "corrupt tribal" leaders. Usually what that means is that you have a handful of friends engaged in discussion groups and occasional demos. It is good work but it is not enough. My little knowledge of Marxism tells me our people are progressing towards a national democratic state. In that battle progressives have to jump in the mud with all and sundry to achieve basic democratic rights for the people and with the people. Fighting for the rights to freedom of assembly, freedom to organize, freedom of speech and other basic rights like the rights to a job and to food for the masses of the nation may not sound that socialist to the arm chair warriors who have never seen a cave they won't hide in in times of battle, but those are the birth pains we need to endure to even start talking about socialism. Nobody ever gave birth to a child who comes out blazing into the one hundred metres truck field and winning the race! Until the workers can freely organize and protect their interests, until the students can participate in national discourse indeed until the whole population is free to engage and dialogue for political and democratic progress nothing else is achievable. That has been our battle todate and it goes back to the 1930's as OO says. At this stage all patriots rich and poor have a common battlefield. They all bring different things to the table. Some are great at mobilizing the masses into action, others are brilliant organizers behind the scenes, some are engaging the enemy with publications, information gathering and distribution while others offer resources including money - the vanguard has always been the more militant and well organized groups including at time armed resistance. That is how our history has evolved in the real world and it is very well documented so there is no excuse for the kind of ignorance some are ambushing us with. At every stage in those battles for those with a minimum grasp of the history of the nation Kenyan leftists have been in the thick of battle long before the era discussion fora like Jukwaa, Kenyaimagine etc where every one with access to a computer and a few handles is an instant militant fighter or better still socialists! In my era we found the rich tradition of Marxist thinking and organizing techniques deeply grounded in student mobilizing work. There was always the right wing reactionaries, just like here in Jukwaa and elsewhere and there were always the progressives. It was sometimes almost even when we could battle to a draw in student representation and in putting the voices of the students in national struggles. Later we found them in groups like December Twelve Movement (DTM) and later Mwakenya (with all its problems) and even much later groups like Mketalili etc. My point here is that socialism and the work to achieve some of its ideals cannot just be confined to debates and brilliant papers presented in fora and workshops. It entails real work on the ground and I challenge our famous Marxist Alex to may be point to us which terrain has been working at and with what results. To come to the present; we are engaged in a battle to democratize all intuitions of state and governance in Kenya. We moved close with Narc in 2002 even though the group could not have been led by a more reactionary element than Kibaki. But we made progress all the same and I can count quite a number of progressive Kenyans that some might define as leftists who were major participants and even architects of a lot of good things. The trouble with national democratic revolution is that it moves in waves - a few steps forward and some backward. We knew that coming in and we know very well what to expect in the next phase. For those who want to stand with their hands a kimbo waiting to join the socialist march, you are welcome to sit on the roadside, but chances are you may not notice when the train passes. Good luck. Adongo |
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Post by aeichener on Aug 16, 2007 23:59:01 GMT 3
Unfortunately I probably do not have much interest in discussing "the Kenyan Left" whatever that is, with you. Why not? I would be interested to hear a former leftist's perspective, mind you. So apparently, you took a good look in the mirror and spotted such thinking. Indeed, the populace is hardly ever "socialist" - it was not in the French Revolution, and it was not in Russia either -, and one must take due care not to confound a volonté générale with the volonte de tous. But of course, that is elementary. No. There are historical alliances and historical compromises, and history educates us about the dangers of entering those, as well as about of dangers of refusing those. However, a historiocal alliance or an interim compromise - such as Oloo has outlined and espoused in his earlier essaya - is by no means the same as trying to ride on the coattails of corrupt criminals and carpetbaggers. We saw a historical surge a few years ago, and we now see a regression. NARC in the meantime stands for this disappointment and regression, and so does ODM-K. That is true. What is necessary now is to revitalize this popular force, to rekindle the fire. I believe the impulse is still there, whereas contrarily the old crooks and new carpetbaggers in ODM-K hope that they can simply shove away the Kibaki clique from the feeding troughs and then have their time at filling their bellies. Alexander |
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Post by adongo12345 on Aug 17, 2007 0:10:22 GMT 3
Unfortunately I probably do not have much interest in discussing "the Kenyan Left" whatever that is, with you. Why not? I would be interested to hear a former leftist's perspective, mind you. So apparently, you took a good look in the mirror and spotted such thinking. Indeed, the populace is hardly ever "socialist" - it was not in the French Revolution, and it was not in Russia either -, and one must take due care not to confound a volonté générale with the volonte de tous. But of course, that is elementary. No. There are historical alliances and historical compromises, and history educates us about the dangers of entering those, as well as about of dangers of refusing those. However, a historiocal alliance or an interim compromise - such as Oloo has outlined and espoused in his earlier essaya - is by no means the same as trying to ride on the coattails of corrupt criminals and carpetbaggers. We saw a historical surge a few years ago, and we now see a regression. NARC in the meantime stands for this disappointment and regression, and so does ODM-K. That is true. What is necessary now is to revitalize this popular force, to rekindle the fire. I believe the impulse is still there, whereas contrarily the old crooks and new carpetbaggers in ODM-K hope that they can simply shove away the Kibaki clique from the feeding troughs and then have their time at filling their bellies. Alexander Alex You forgot to brief us on your great battles for socialism. Experience is the best teacher. I specifically asked for that. When is that coming? Adongo |
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Post by miguna on Aug 17, 2007 0:11:32 GMT 3
AlexI knew it wasn't going to take long before you dragged me into your increasingly creepy mud slinging business. Unfortunately I probably do not have much interest in discussing "the Kenyan Left" whatever that is, with you. One thing I see which is typical petty bourgeois thinking is the notion that being poor, disempowered or uneducated has anything to do with having socialist leanings. The other misguided heckling is the idea that leftists and I hope we are not talking about anarchists and troskyites have to work in "pure" organizations away from the "corrupt tribal" leaders. Usually what that means is that you have a handful of friends engaged in discussion groups and occasional demos. It is good work but it is not enough. My little knowledge of Marxism tells me our people are progressing towards a national democratic state. In that battle progressives have to jump in the mud with all and sundry to achieve basic democratic rights for the people and with the people. Fighting for the rights to freedom of assembly, freedom to organize, freedom of speech and other basic rights like the rights to a job and to food for the masses of the nation may not sound that socialist to the arm chair warriors who have never seen a cave they won't hide in in times of battle, but those are the birth pains we need to endure to even start talking about socialism. Nobody ever gave birth to a child who comes out blazing into the one hundred metres truck field and winning the race! Until the workers can freely organize and protect their interests, until the students can participate in national discourse indeed until the whole population is free to engage and dialogue for political and democratic progress nothing else is achievable. That has been our battle todate and it goes back to the 1930's as OO says. At this stage all patriots rich and poor have a common battlefield. They all bring different things to the table. Some are great at mobilizing the masses into action, others are brilliant organizers behind the scenes, some are engaging the enemy with publications, information gathering and distribution while others offer resources including money - the vanguard has always been the more militant and well organized groups including at time armed resistance. That is how our history has evolved in the real world and it is very well documented so there is no excuse for the kind of ignorance some are ambushing us with. At every stage in those battles for those with a minimum grasp of the history of the nation Kenyan leftists have been in the thick of battle long before the era discussion fora like Jukwaa, Kenyaimagine etc where every one with access to a computer and a few handles is an instant militant fighter or better still socialists! In my era we found the rich tradition of Marxist thinking and organizing techniques deeply grounded in student mobilizing work. There was always the right wing reactionaries, just like here in Jukwaa and elsewhere and there were always the progressives. It was sometimes almost even when we could battle to a draw in student representation and in putting the voices of the students in national struggles. Later we found them in groups like December Twelve Movement (DTM) and later Mwakenya (with all its problems) and even much later groups like Mketalili etc. My point here is that socialism and the work to achieve some of its ideals cannot just be confined to debates and brilliant papers presented in fora and workshops. It entails real work on the ground and I challenge our famous Marxist Alex to may be point to us which terrain has been working at and with what results. To come to the present; we are engaged in a battle to democratize all intuitions of state and governance in Kenya. We moved close with Narc in 2002 even though the group could not have been led by a more reactionary element than Kibaki. But we made progress all the same and I can count quite a number of progressive Kenyans that some might define as leftists who were major participants and even architects of a lot of good things. The trouble with national democratic revolution is that it moves in waves - a few steps forward and some backward. We knew that coming in and we know very well what to expect in the next phase. For those who want to stand with their hands a kimbo waiting to join the socialist march, you are welcome to sit on the roadside, but chances are you may not notice when the train passes. Good luck. Adongo Adongo, I thought I was patient, but you beat me hands down. Why you bother with the kind of drivel that gets thrown our way as we work with the Majestic People of Kenya amazes me. I may not be the only person who will seriously miss you in our next parliament. You touched on something that I wanted to comment on briefly. Any of those so-called Marxists, or whatever that confused soul wants to call himself, are suspicious. Self-imposed titles are at best delusional. The mere fact that one finds it necessary to give himself titles such as those in itself raises questions about that person's credibility. Those are just name-droppers. There is absolutely no substance to those empty names or titles. The same goes for the insults. I take them as a badge of approval that I am effective at what I do. If I wasn't, the high-sounding emptiness would not be thrown in my direction. I am a proud and unapologetic Raila supporter who is also strongly pro-change and has been in the thick of things with the MPK for more than 20 years! To me, that is what matters. Lastly, anyone claiming to be ideologically pure knows nothing about ideology and does not deserve a response. ;D As for "carpetbagging", I wish I knew what that was. But since it sounds like work and I am a workaholic, I will proudly place that title after my name once I reach parliament in December. You would be surprised at the number of negative epithets we have domesticated since we joined the struggle for the true liberation of Kenya in our teens. Miguna ----------------------------------------------------------- P/S: Yesterday, I was going through some documents in the SONU files (Yes, I took away the SONU files after our release and after SONU had been banned); I came accross many letters, petitions and comminques penned by On'gwen, Mwandawiro, PLO, Adungosi, and Adongo Ogony, among others. Just by looking at the letters, one is able to tell the fake "comrades" from the "real" ones...I appreciate much more of what the Majestic People of Kenya (including the heroic students) have achieved in the past 45 years!....Hmmm. I wonder what some of our puke-throwing netters were doing then...I wonder! [unedited] ============================================= |
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Post by miguna on Aug 17, 2007 0:17:59 GMT 3
At the Sixth Pan African Congress held on June 19-27, 1974, the Jamaican intellectual leftist Horace Campbell delivered a paper titled: "Pan-Africanism: The Struggle Against Imperialism and Neo-Colonialism."
On Kenya, Prof. Campbell had this to say:
"The clear lessons of Kenya should always be uppermost in the minds of Pan-Africanists. There a struggle by peasants was hijacked by one of the most bootlicking set of all black men, led by the greedy Jomo Kenyatta, a key figure at the Manchester Conference..."
We must be vigilant and watch out for the acrobatic hijackers of our struggles; they come in all colours, shades and manners. Amen.
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Post by aeichener on Aug 17, 2007 0:23:43 GMT 3
as we work with the Majestic People of Kenya 1. Against, not with. 2. I am glad you apparently received a campaign donation of 18 additional letters from the alphabet, and thus buried that despicable acronym. I am sorry, but the one self-identified Marxist here - Onyango Oloo - to me appears neither suspicious in the veracity of his ideology, nor lacking in credibility. Since such continuously has been oozing from your posting, there is no need to throw additional manure unto the heap. The dictionary could become your ally, if you treated it nicely. Miguna Miguna Miguna Esquire is an excellent illustration for this historical term. Alexander |
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Post by miguna on Aug 17, 2007 0:35:37 GMT 3
I am pure manure!Alexander NEXT? |
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Post by nereah on Apr 29, 2012 11:31:58 GMT 3
 the ideologue pictured above speaks for me as the sunday standard political writer juma kwayera reawakens us to the reality that jukwaa's very own 50 cents  raised almost five years ago. the kenyan social left and what became of them is a debate that must be done justice to with the urgency and sobriety that modern reality demands. for purposes of this discourse, here are excerpt of kwayera's reportage and please note the clarity,forthrightness and the profound manner with which kihoro is speaking of the kenyan left. ![]() t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcShB5DdM_ DTSygs 7FZRkYSOJOz3EvKY5JOacGNyrk9K8JQhn-JhoBtXeFRnDA[/img] "Eight former political detainees met the Prime Minister and noted that the reform process risks being hijacked by the same people we fought against. For the past eight months, the social left has been lacking the reform agenda. The groups and individuals the PM has tried to work with were amorphous and were only interested in serving time," says Kihoro, a lawyer and a fierce critic of founding President Jomo Kenyatta and former President Moi regimes.  Former detainees Kihoro says Raila has been consulting former political detainee – former Runjenjes MP Njeru Kathangu, former Subukia MP Koigi Wamwere, former Wundanyi MP Mwandawiro Mghanga, former detainee Otieno Mak’Onyango, Imenti Central MP Gitobu Imanyara, and Lands Minister James Orengo, among others.  Kihoro terms as ‘vain electoral militancy’ the brand of reforms championed by Energy Minister Kiraitu Murungi, Water Minister Charity Ngilu, Orengo and Karua, saying their intention was to serve time, not advancing any notable agenda for social justice.
"The disintegration of the Pentagon has proved to Raila that it is difficult to keep bad boys together. They take to their feet at the most decisive moment. Some of the ministers, and MPs who cast themselves as reformists, are chameleons that are generous with colours.
Once the reform agenda was dispensed and found themselves in Government, they began behaving like the people they fought out of power," says Kihoro, a former political detainee. details: www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000057240&cid=4¤tPage=1 |
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Post by nereah on Mar 17, 2013 15:07:49 GMT 3
the electoral defeat of ndugu oyugi akongo,arguably the father of kenya's second liberation struggle and wanyiri kinyoro for migori and nairobi gubernatorial was a blow that i have accepted and taking on my stride.
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Post by nereah on Apr 6, 2013 14:50:32 GMT 3
media maverick mutuma mathewseeks the attention of the kenyan left with this searing attack. "The Left in Kenya no longer opposes the neo-colonial state, it is part of the neo-colonial state; the Kenyan Left does not fight imperialism and exploitation of poor nations, it is part of the comprador and works to facilitate that exploitation; the Kenyan Left no longer questions neo-liberalism and what traditional Leftists would regard as the instruments of international subjugation" -media maverick mutuma mathewsthen the kicker: "The Left has learnt all the bad manners of the old establishment: Primitive accumulation, electoral dishonesty, nepotism and moral ambivalence, intellectual debauchery and brutality. The Left didn’t just lose an election; it lost its reason to exist." tovuti: tinyurl.com/c4kr8jtmay be we can go back and redefine the kenyan left its variants.have they lost the cause and what cause? let us have a have a hard look at mutuma's targets as per the names below and still counting...... otieno kajwang,
jim orengo,
mtumishi njeru kathangu,
agwambo,
edward akongo oyugi,
wafula buke,
oduor ongwen,
mwandawiro mghanga,
kibisu kabatesi,
ogingo rateng ogego,
josiah omoto,
miguna miguna,
plo lumumba,
waweru kariuki,
njunguna mutonga,
paddy onyango,
joseph hongo,
onyango c. a.,
francis kinyua,
onyango oloo,
thomas mutuse,
johnstone simiyu,
jeff mwangi,
ongeleopala,
muga korlale,
wahinya bore, and the list goes on....... here is our very own onyango oloo:and this |
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Apr 7, 2013 4:16:47 GMT 3
My Sister Nereah:
Greetings.
I intend to respond to Mutuma.
Some of the names you list above, were NEVER, remotely connected to Left politics. For instance, Francis Kinyua who was arrested together with us in 1982 and spent years at Kamiti together with us was just an innocent undergraduate who was swept by the repressive state crackdown that followed the abortive coup. It would be crude and impolite if I were to detail how he behaved in prison. Besides those of us who spent time with him in the coolers have NOT HEARD FROM HIM OR SEEN HIM SINCE HE FINISHED HIS TERM IN THE MID EIGHTIES! Some of us are unsure whether he is still even alive.
My small point is this:
Just because you were expelled from the university or interrogated by the Special Branch or even jailed, does NOT qualify you as a "Leftist".
Onyango Oloo
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Post by mank on Apr 7, 2013 5:11:12 GMT 3
My Sister Nereah:
Greetings.
I intend to respond to Mutuma.
Some of the names you list above, were NEVER, remotely connected to Left politics. For instance, Francis Kinyua who was arrested together with us in 1982 and spent years at Kamiti together with us was just an innocent undergraduate who was swept by the repressive state crackdown that followed the abortive coup. It would be crude and impolite if I were to detail how he behaved in prison. Besides those of who spent time with him in the coolers have NOT HEARD FROM HIM OR SEEN HIM SINCE HE FINISHED HIS TERM IN THE MID EIGHTIES! Some of us are unsure whether he is still even alive.
My small point is this:
Just because you were expelled from the university or interrogated by the Special Branch or even jailed, does NOT qualify you as a "Leftist".
Onyango Oloo I am burning a few things as I jot this, and I have not really checked with the vendors since your last complaint to find whether shambas have been mixed without notice. All I want to say ..."I agree with you in totallilty!" Your small point is big! I have to read Mutuma's though. He and I have some history. Much respect to the man ... the Kenyan. ... the journalist! And I have red it. Perhaps I am naive. So I should not judge, but ask ... what's the left's key stand today? What do they perceive to be their call to Kenya's current situation? There were times I would call myself a leftist ... but that category, just like "Learned Friends", sounds too packaged for man as dynamic as I. All I look for are the ideas ... I can care less the label. What do the Leftists of Kenya today stand for? They might be for what I stand for, yet here is I, no knowing! |
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Post by nereah on May 12, 2013 15:20:02 GMT 3
My Sister Nereah:Greetings. My small point is this: Just because you were expelled from the university or interrogated by the Special Branch or even jailed, does NOT qualify you as a "Leftist". Onyango Oloo thanks woud gem for the interjection. somehow you are right, somehow you are wrong. wrong on the premise of exclusion of those kenyan adults who fate bound us with in the struggle purely because of their past orientation or proclivity. just as we had turncoats in struggles so do we have those who never believed but suffered. take the case of otieno makonyango whose moving story was published in the saturday nation of last week.he was mistaken for another otieno but became radicalized by his acquaintances with the likes of agwambo and by large his detention. i was in some discussion where with the benefit of hindsight, it was agreed that even reactionaries like p eter oloo aringo, kariuki chotaras,okiki amayos,robert ouko,charles njonjo,daniel moi,mwai kibaki were instrumental in accelerating the systematic collapse of one party dictatorship as were the cooks,househelps,drivers,physicians,foot soldiers,spouses and i dare add heartthrobs of the akongo oyugis,oyangi mbajas,njeru kathangus,agwambos and koigi wamweres, anyang' nyongos et al the kenyan left could therefore have many variants especially if we want to determine if the leftist politics was a preserve of the kenyan intelligentsia or transcended to the grassroots where the gilbert kagias,koigi wamweres,pio gama pintos and martin shikukus were rooted. indeed this led me into reading this critical assessment by wafula buke jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/3716 |
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raised almost five years ago.