|
Post by kamalet on Jan 16, 2012 13:55:47 GMT 3
sadik & all, i am firmly on nancy baraza's corner and glad that she has settled for some of the finest legal minds in kenya. i have warned those baying for nancy's blood to hold their horses as the good fight has not even started. the media trial of nancy and where her enemies chose to selectively plan some disturbing stories of her alleged/perceived past indiscretions and worse still leak to the media the judicial service commission dossier on her,tells all. those who have the energy to lift the big moral brush and with glee broadly painting her character fails me somewhat by not subjecting all if not some and especially the chair of the judicial service commission to the same test. i have in mind( and this i say with tremendous respect) the likes of clergyman samuel kobia whose integrity was faulted by the phd degree scandal at the world council of churches and which local media recently reminded us of. i could go on and on.. by using invoking nancy's past indulgence( for instance the pro-government lawyer posture) where her boss and some members of judiciary were affected, tells me of desperation by some quarters to fix if not get rid of her. i welcome the tribunal and look forward to its establishment. Nereah Are you not doing exactly what you would rather others do not? Digging up dirt on Kobia only serves to cloud the issue. The simple point is that Kobia was nominated by religious bodies to the JSC and his past was never an issue so his investigation of Baraza need not be seen in any other light but someone doing his job!
|
|
|
Post by nereah on Jan 16, 2012 14:13:26 GMT 3
kamale ;D i hear you but i have only cited samuel's case because it was recently revived by a local newspaper(cover story by the way) and he happens to be the one who chaired(correct me if i am wrong) the team that believe nancy should go judging by their verdict.
my quarrel and basis for my suspicion of hidden agenda is this:why did the committee dig up nancy's past according to a judicial service committee verdict leaked to the daily nation and whose purpose i argue was meant to embarrass nancy.
i read( and kobia's team have not refuted the story) that nancy's decision to team up with pro-gvt lawyers against then anti-gvt lawyers who included her boss mutunga and lawyer paul muite was used against her by kobia's led committee.
then there is this one that i consider frivolous: ati complain by some obviously malicious member of the judiciary about nancy's manners while on a trip to usa.
if we choose to subject nancy to scrutiny then lets not be selective.i am disappointed that mutunga has not found it fit to shield the jsc from perception that it is being used to fix his deputy.
nancy is still mutunga's substantive deputy and vice president of supreme court for heaven sake. it is therefore my expectation...nay, demand that mutunga publicly assure nancy and those who believe in her like nereah that he means well. how? ...by instituting an internal inquiry on how the confidential report ended on the daily newspaper and the motive of who did it.
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Jan 16, 2012 15:27:10 GMT 3
kamale ;D i hear you but i have only cited samuel's case because it was recently revived by a local newspaper(cover story by the way) and he happens to be the one who chaired(correct me if i am wrong) the team that believe nancy should go judging by their verdict.
my quarrel and basis for my suspicion of hidden agenda is this:why did the committee dig up nancy's past according to a judicial service committee verdict leaked to the daily nation and whose purpose i argue was meant to embarrass nancy.
i read( and kobia's team have not refuted the story) that nancy's decision to team up with pro-gvt lawyers against then anti-gvt lawyers who included her boss mutunga and lawyer paul muite was used against her by kobia's led committee.
then there is this one that i consider frivolous: ati complain by some obviously malicious member of the judiciary about nancy's manners while on a trip to usa.
if we choose to subject nancy to scrutiny then lets not be selective.i am disappointed that mutunga has not found it fit to shield the jsc from perception that it is being used to fix his deputy.
nancy is still mutunga's substantive deputy and vice president of supreme court for heaven sake. it is therefore my expectation...nay, demand that mutunga publicly assure nancy and those who believe in her like nereah that he means well. how? ...by instituting an internal inquiry on how the confidential report ended on the daily newspaper and the motive of who did it.
Nereah I still differ with you! Mutunga perhaps dealt with the situation best (actually contrary to my original thinking!) and the fact that they decided to send a petition to Kibaki rather than appear to sweep the matter under the carpet is a lot better and helps remove any ideas of a witch hunt. If there are other matters brought to the JSC - like the US trip - then perhaps this shows that there have been complaints about her behaviour previuosly and the recent incident may have forced the action on the JSC! Frankly, I am still surprised that she did not find it fit to resign and now prefers to go through a public humiliation. She probably has the best lawyers...but all they will do is argue law and perhaps have her acquitted - but is that really the point? I doubt it!
|
|
|
Post by tactician on Jan 16, 2012 16:09:24 GMT 3
kamale ;D i hear you but i have only cited samuel's case because it was recently revived by a local newspaper(cover story by the way) and he happens to be the one who chaired(correct me if i am wrong) the team that believe nancy should go judging by their verdict.
my quarrel and basis for my suspicion of hidden agenda is this:why did the committee dig up nancy's past according to a judicial service committee verdict leaked to the daily nation and whose purpose i argue was meant to embarrass nancy.
i read( and kobia's team have not refuted the story) that nancy's decision to team up with pro-gvt lawyers against then anti-gvt lawyers who included her boss mutunga and lawyer paul muite was used against her by kobia's led committee.
then there is this one that i consider frivolous: ati complain by some obviously malicious member of the judiciary about nancy's manners while on a trip to usa.
if we choose to subject nancy to scrutiny then lets not be selective.i am disappointed that mutunga has not found it fit to shield the jsc from perception that it is being used to fix his deputy.
nancy is still mutunga's substantive deputy and vice president of supreme court for heaven sake. it is therefore my expectation...nay, demand that mutunga publicly assure nancy and those who believe in her like nereah that he means well. how? ...by instituting an internal inquiry on how the confidential report ended on the daily newspaper and the motive of who did it.
Nereah I still differ with you! Mutunga perhaps dealt with the situation best (actually contrary to my original thinking!) and the fact that they decided to send a petition to Kibaki rather than appear to sweep the matter under the carpet is a lot better and helps remove any ideas of a witch hunt. If there are other matters brought to the JSC - like the US trip - then perhaps this shows that there have been complaints about her behaviour previuosly and the recent incident may have forced the action on the JSC! Frankly, I am still surprised that she did not find it fit to resign and now prefers to go through a public humiliation. She probably has the best lawyers...but all they will do is argue law and perhaps have her acquitted - but is that really the point? I doubt it! There is no acquittal/conviction in the tribunal - this implies criminality which requires the standard of ''beyond reasonable doubt'' The tribunal is to judge whether Nancy's conduct constitutes gross misconduct. FYI, we now know that Nancy made a statement with the police in which she admitted that she assaulted Kerubo with a gun. We also know that the AG Tobiko has said that the statement is not enough and has called for further investigations. Unfortunately, people are mistakenly assumung that since Nancy's statement was not enough for the AG to prosecute, then the statement cannot be enough at the Tribunal It is. Here's why: The statement that Nancy made at the police station was effectively a confession. And confessions in Kenya cannot stand unless they are made in front of a judge/magistrate. Thus Nancy's statement cannot be used for prosecution since it was made to the cops rather than to a judge/magistrate. The statement is however admissible before the JSC and the tribunal as they are not criminal trials. This is what will sink her. Not to mention that the cops who took the statement will be asked to come to the tribunal - just as they did at the JSC where they testified that she gave the statement without duress. Add the statements made by Kerubo's co-workers and Nancy is fried. In summary, Nancy must ask herself this question: - If her colleagues & peers (CJ, one high court judge, one court of appeal judge, one magistrate, one practising lawyer) found her conduct suspect behind closed doors, what are the chances that a tribunal of other individuals (unrelated to her) will find her innocent in public?
|
|
|
Post by merlin on Jan 16, 2012 16:21:13 GMT 3
sadik & all, i am firmly in nancy baraza's corner and glad that she has settled for some of the finest legal minds in kenya. i have warned those baying for nancy's blood to hold their horses as the good fight has not even started. nereah,We all love our children and of course they never do anything wrong. If they do they were led by faulty others and it will never be their fault. We – the parents – do not like to be embarrassed or our hope for immaculate children be chattered by bad incidents. Dealing with our children in this way will never teach them responsibility and integrity. We – the progressive community – had high hopes and expectations of Nancy Baraza though we are confronted by a nasty incident. If we really want a better society of higher internal values such as responsibility and integrity; we should face the incident with an open honest mind and not look for the faulty others. It is Nancy Baraza’s “own doing” we are discussing and if she is not up to standard to recognise, acknowledge and accept her behaviour and come to the logical conclusion, then the Judiciary should do this for her. I have waited to comment as it takes time for factual information to trickle down though I support fully the initiatives taken by the CJ and consider this as a big step forward towards a better society. I am not in Nancy Baraza’s corner or in any other personalised corner. I would like to see a new responsible society of high integrity which we all part of.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Defence on Jan 16, 2012 16:55:02 GMT 3
|
|
|
Post by tactician on Jan 16, 2012 17:01:37 GMT 3
Yap. Straight to the point
|
|
|
Post by adongo23456 on Jan 16, 2012 17:39:59 GMT 3
Mutoko is on the money. Once you get yourself in this Tribunal situation with all sorts of allegations you are in a hole and the sooner you stop digging the better. That is exactly what we have been telling Mr. Kiplagat to stop making a fool of himself and resign from the TJRC and preserve the little integrity he has left instead of fighting the Tribunal. The old fool has never listened and today looks like a clown trying to impose himself on the TJRC with very little success. If Nancy Baraza doesn't watch it she is going to look uglier than Bathuel Kiplagat with his circus at the TJRC. Count your loses and run and please take Kiplagat with you.
|
|
|
Post by Daktari wa makazi on Jan 17, 2012 15:19:51 GMT 3
I have posted something different from the views expressed here under Kamalet's thread on Baraza tribunal.
|
|
|
Post by b6k on Jan 17, 2012 20:47:00 GMT 3
As to the ITEM, what was it? How did your friend know? please disclose, or cue wild speculation. bottle of ...? roll of ... ? Pack of ...? blue or other pills? ... ;D Afrigun:ONE of the ABOVE for sure. But since Jukwaa is ≠ the Weekly Citizen, ∴ MY LIPS areOnyango Oloo Nairobi, KenyaFolks, if a picture speaks a thousand words, what do 6 pics from OO say? Given the one of 3 options presented by Afrgun, one of which is confirmed, Baraza is doing herself a disservice by fighting this. Some battles are best left lost...
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Jan 18, 2012 8:23:10 GMT 3
Is Chapter 6 sufficient to have Baraza thrown out?
75. (1) A State officer shall behave, whether in public and official life, in private life, or in association with other persons, in a mannerthat avoids— (a) any conflict between personal interests and public or official duties; (b) compromising any public or official interest in favour of a personal interest; or (c) demeaning the office the officer holds. (2) A person who contravenes clause (1), or Article 76, 77 or 78 (2)— (a) shall be subject to the applicable disciplinary procedure for the relevant office; and Oath of office of State officers. Conduct of State officers.
(b) may, in accordance with the disciplinary procedure referred to in paragraph (a), be dismissed or otherwise removed from office. (3) A person who has been dismissed or otherwise removed from office for a contravention of the provisions mentioned in clause (2) is disqualified from holding any other State office.
|
|
|
Post by jakaswanga on Jan 19, 2012 20:46:07 GMT 3
Is Chapter 6 sufficient to have Baraza thrown out? 75. (1) A State officer shall behave, whether in public and official life, in private life, or in association with other persons, in a mannerthat avoids— (a) any conflict between personal interests and public or official duties; (b) compromising any public or official interest in favour of a personal interest; or (c) demeaning the office the officer holds. (2) A person who contravenes clause (1), or Article 76, 77 or 78 (2)— (a) shall be subject to the applicable disciplinary procedure for the relevant office; and Oath of office of State officers. Conduct of State officers.
(b) may, in accordance with the disciplinary procedure referred to in paragraph (a), be dismissed or otherwise removed from office. (3) A person who has been dismissed or otherwise removed from office for a contravention of the provisions mentioned in clause (2) is disqualified from holding any other State office.Kamalet, This is more than adequate [to get rid of that lunatic Baraza]. And, here is the green grass under the snake [Gen. Mulili] if the defination State Officer includes posts like those held by Ambassador Muthaura and the rest of the O-6 in office, then as soon as the charges against them are confirmed by Trendifilova & co, their being state officers becomes untenable, referencing these very same clauses.
|
|
|
Post by afrigun on Jan 24, 2012 13:35:54 GMT 3
Baraza to be suspended this week President Kibaki is this week expected to suspend Deputy Chief Justice Nancy Baraza, the Star has reliably established. Multiple sources at the Office of the President in Harambee house say that the President received a petition by the Judicial Service Commission on Friday and immediately asked the relevant senior government officials to shortlist the names of individuals who will sit on a tribunal to investigate Baraza. "The suspension letter was written on Friday and only awaits the President's signature. Once that is done, it will be dispatched immediately to relevant people. The President will also set up a tribunal immediately because he does not want this matter to slow down the reform momentum at the Judiciary," said a senior officer in the Officer of the President. www.the-star.co.ke/national/national/59192-kibaki-to-suspend-baraza
|
|
|
Post by afrigun on Jan 24, 2012 13:40:30 GMT 3
This is coming at a very interesting time in view of the ICC indictments and the call for the ICC accused to be removed form office.
Lets see how the president and the AG will justify suspending Baraza and at the same time retaining Uhuru and Muthaura in their offices.
|
|
|
Post by nereah on Jan 24, 2012 21:16:27 GMT 3
This is coming at a very interesting time in view of the ICC indictments and the call for the ICC accused to be removed form office. Lets see how the president and the AG will justify suspending Baraza and at the same time retaining Uhuru and Muthaura in their offices. afrigun, ;D we want the tribunal on nancy like yesterday.
|
|
|
Post by b6k on Jan 24, 2012 21:58:33 GMT 3
Watch the buggers retain her!
|
|
|
Post by afrigun on Jan 26, 2012 18:38:23 GMT 3
|
|
|
Post by Titchaz on Jan 27, 2012 1:58:09 GMT 3
Kathure:.... ;D ;D ;D ...na hii pia ni maedereo. Hebu now please say "You need to know people" to yourself....Katiba mpya inanasa!!!
|
|
|
Post by mwalimumkuu on Jan 27, 2012 6:51:28 GMT 3
That Baraza is going to have to face the tribunal and her accusers is no longer in doubt.
This, however, creates another grey area to think about. To the best of my understanding, Baraza will not participate in deliberations of the supreme court untill she is either cleared or summarily dismissed.
Could someone (Sadik, Tactician) on what happens in case an issue is brought before the court that requires the entire five judge bench (if at all there is such a requirement)?
|
|
|
Post by tactician on Jan 27, 2012 8:54:46 GMT 3
That Baraza is going to have to face the tribunal and her accusers is no longer in doubt. This, however, creates another grey area to think about. To the best of my understanding, Baraza will not participate in deliberations of the supreme court untill she is either cleared or summarily dismissed. Could someone (Sadik, Tactician) on what happens in case an issue is brought before the court that requires the entire five judge bench (if at all there is such a requirement)? The Supreme Court has seven judges on it. The katiba, see below, says that a quorum of the court is five judges: Article 162 (2) The Supreme Court shall be properly constituted for the purposes of its proceedings if it is composed of five judges.Since the SC now has 6 working judges, the CJ will have to constitute a bench of 5 to handle specific cases - since you cannot have a bench of even numbers for obvious reasons. The practice, as it should be, is that a random based way of deciding which judges sit on which cases is implemented - rather than the CJ actually deciding judge a sits on case a etc as it can introduce claims of bias. In short - the SC is still in place and can handle all cases - including an presidential election petition just the way it is. Of course Nancy is not helping herself.
|
|
|
Post by mwalimumkuu on Jan 29, 2012 7:52:16 GMT 3
That Baraza is going to have to face the tribunal and her accusers is no longer in doubt. This, however, creates another grey area to think about. To the best of my understanding, Baraza will not participate in deliberations of the supreme court untill she is either cleared or summarily dismissed. Could someone (Sadik, Tactician) on what happens in case an issue is brought before the court that requires the entire five judge bench (if at all there is such a requirement)? The Supreme Court has seven judges on it. The katiba, see below, says that a quorum of the court is five judges: Article 162 (2) The Supreme Court shall be properly constituted for the purposes of its proceedings if it is composed of five judges.Since the SC now has 6 working judges, the CJ will have to constitute a bench of 5 to handle specific cases - since you cannot have a bench of even numbers for obvious reasons. The practice, as it should be, is that a random based way of deciding which judges sit on which cases is implemented - rather than the CJ actually deciding judge a sits on case a etc as it can introduce claims of bias. In short - the SC is still in place and can handle all cases - including an presidential election petition just the way it is. Of course Nancy is not helping herself. Thanks Tactician, I do not know where I got this impression that the SC has five judges. I agree with you that Baraza has not helped her course very much.
|
|
|
Post by jakaswanga on Jan 29, 2012 13:32:05 GMT 3
tactician, I missed this story. But I am being informed Lawyer Khaminwa wa Khaminwa, acting for Baraza, reduced the whole altercation incident to Kerubo's nose being rubbed effectionately by the Judge, and and the askari misconstrueing this to mean perhaps a pass was being made at her! Thereby reacting violently! I do not believe this version, but of late I have seen high profile Kenyan lawyers reason in ways which would not pass kinderrgarten. So ask if you have heard a more adult version from Khaminwa!
|
|
|
Post by tnk on Jan 30, 2012 20:26:57 GMT 3
|
|
|
Post by nereah on Jan 31, 2012 14:06:07 GMT 3
i warned that this route is going to be costly and i was dismissed with a wave of hand.trust me, by the time nancy is through with her tormentors, careers will be in tatters, working relationship beyond repair and the much hyped judicial wind of change would be a source of frustration. let the mayhem begin
|
|
|
Post by mzee on Jan 31, 2012 17:22:30 GMT 3
If I were Nancy, and I was convinced I had done nothing wrong, I would not turn this issue into a kiplagat like circus. But that's where we are heading I'm afraid. So nereah wa amadi is right
|
|