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Post by jakaswanga on Jan 31, 2012 20:46:32 GMT 3
i warned that this route is going to be costly and i was dismissed with a wave of hand.trust me, by the time nancy is through with her tormentors, careers will be in tatters, working relationship beyond repair and the much hyped judicial wind of change would be a source of frustration. let the mayhem begin These antics of people clinging to their portfolios like parasitic monsters with uncountable suckers, must lead to a rethink of sacking procedures. A chap like me is very meticulous about workers rights --we are barely through discussing Miguna's case, but when I see these shameful brigands, I am ready to tolerate much more flexible contracts. Anybody who has sat in a negotiation table where employers face labour will know that is the phrase which covers summary dismissal!It took 200 years of political struggle to institutionalise the 'labour contract'! so my heart is heavy when I call for the summary dismissal of Baraza, Kiplagat and Uhuru Kenyatta!
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Post by nereah on Feb 3, 2012 15:52:18 GMT 3
its obvious kerubo & co have upped their game and in effect taken the battle to the next level.can someone please pass the popcorn! alturl.com/jt2dp
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Post by job on Mar 15, 2012 4:29:29 GMT 3
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Post by nereah on Aug 20, 2012 13:53:14 GMT 3
i warned in january that nancy is going for the long haul and that her case bear the complexity of the time we lived in. it had attracted and still retain vested interests, from those using her for benchmarking their performance and as a pawn in the complex kibaki succession matrix to the clueless..err excuse miguna! chattering class that were falling for the media manipulation.
here was a narrative where all and by this i mean, nancy and kerubo victims, but months before the verdict was out, nancy had already been tried, convicted and sentenced.
the annoying bit is that this was selective national umbrage obviously driven by the powerful media owned and or controlled by the ruling class.
i reject the verdict on nancy on the basis that it smack of a well hatched plot by the forces of impunity, now watering the integrity bill, to take over judiciary.
in my small mind there are three distinct forces at play that a discerning mind can conflate over this nancy persecution. those who want the status quo; those who are out to settle scores and the overzealous who are being set up but wrongly believe they are affirming their revolutionary credentials.
of course you don't have to believe this 'crap' from nereah but wait until the chicken start coming home to roost.
the dear and lovely sister is going all the way which means more mayhem. wily the mutunga will have to step aside and so is smokin wanjala over the nancy case. that will be the beginning of a new twist in this long drawn battle.
more skeletons,worse than those of baraza would be unleashed to the media against judicial heads that are now antagonizing a restive political class and the wenye nchi like moi.
for us who are firmly in nacy's corner, we believe this would be a moment for tabula rasa, a clean start, the renewal!
let me go for more popcorns and let no one say i dint warn against persecuting nancy makhoka baraza for that is what this is all about.
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Post by b6k on Aug 20, 2012 14:39:39 GMT 3
i warned in january that nancy is going for the long haul and that her case bear the complexity of the time we lived in. it had attracted and still retain vested interests, from those using her for benchmarking their performance and as a pawn in the complex kibaki succession matrix to the clueless..err excuse miguna! chattering class that were falling for the media manipulation. here was a narrative where all and by this i mean, nancy and kerubo victims, but months before the verdict was out, nancy had already been tried, convicted and sentenced. the annoying bit is that this was selective national umbrage obviously driven by the powerful media owned and or controlled by the ruling class. i reject the verdict on nancy on the basis that it smack of a well hatched plot by the forces of impunity, now watering the integrity bill, to take over judiciary. in my small mind there are three distinct forces at play that a discerning mind can conflate over this nancy persecution. those who want the status quo; those who are out to settle scores and the overzealous who are being set up but wrongly believe they are affirming their revolutionary credentials. of course you don't have to believe this 'crap' from nereah but wait until the chicken start coming home to roost. the dear and lovely sister is going all the way which means more mayhem. wily the mutunga will have to step aside and so is smokin wanjala over the nancy case. that will be the beginning of a new twist in this long drawn battle. more skeletons,worse than those of baraza would be unleashed to the media against judicial heads that are now antagonizing a restive political class and the wenye nchi like moi. for us who are firmly in nacy's corner, we believe this would be a moment for tabula rasa, a clean start, the renewal! let me go for more popcorns and let no one say i dint warn against persecuting nancy makhoka baraza for that is what this is all about. Nereah, I beg to differ. Baraza was sent packing solely due to questionable actions by herself that she, as a Deputy CJ & a decent human being, ought to have been in control of. It was bad enough that she disrespected Kerubo's request to conduct a search as dictated by her job. This is a situation that all Kenyans have had to live with given our on-going battles with al-Shabaab, but when she went further &: (1) pulled her nose & (b) stormed off to her car to get a gun to threaten Kerubo with, she crossed the line into what can be characterized as physical assault & criminal behaviour. Have the "forces of impunity" benefited from her ouster? Possibly, but time will tell as eventually it depends on who takes up the post after her. The fact that she has lost it is not necessarily a victory for the forces of impunity unless they later succeed in getting one of their own to take over Nancy's post. It is ironic that you cannot see her acts, which smack of the highest order of impunity for what they were. The nose pulling & gun toting actions were all committed by her & to be frank she only has herself, her temper, & her arrogance ("you should know people!") to blame.
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Post by nereah on Aug 20, 2012 15:26:46 GMT 3
It is ironic that you cannot see her acts, which smack of the highest order of impunity for what they were. The nose pulling & gun toting actions were all committed by her & to be frank she only has herself, her temper, & her arrogance ("you should know people!") to blame. b6k, i am up for debate on this. in a kenya where moi's son is still scot-free after court orders his arrest, where kibaki is defying judiciary on county commissioners, yada yada.. nancy's case betrays selective persecution and hypocrisy at its best.
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Post by podp on Aug 20, 2012 15:51:55 GMT 3
b6k, i am up for debate on this. in a kenya where moi's son is still scot-free after court orders his arrest, where kibaki is defying judiciary on county commissioners, yada yada.. nancy's case betrays selective persecution and hypocrisy at its best. animal farm re-visited. on Nancy B we had to start somewhere and best outcome is future state and public officers will be less brazen aka kenyatta, moi and kibaki style. She needs to do a Maina Njenga gig and she may come up again even the dynasties of kenyatta, moi and kibaki may not survive second and third generation when the fathers are off stage, hence the spirited fight Uhuru is putting up to skip ICC or be PORK against all odds. All we need do is keep the firewood coming to burn their attempts to prop up impunity
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Post by b6k on Aug 20, 2012 17:52:22 GMT 3
It is ironic that you cannot see her acts, which smack of the highest order of impunity for what they were. The nose pulling & gun toting actions were all committed by her & to be frank she only has herself, her temper, & her arrogance ("you should know people!") to blame. b6k, i am up for debate on this. in a kenya where moi's son is still scot-free after court orders his arrest, where kibaki is defying judiciary on county commissioners, yada yada.. nancy's case betrays selective persecution and hypocrisy at its best. Nereah, you're wrong again. Comparing different cases that are at different stages in the course of prosecution doesn't really help. Philip Moi's case is a divorce matter. These can be drawn out for a very long time. The bottle-neck we see in this case with the the "mboys" in blue not pursuing the perp. The court is actually pursuing the matter pretty well. When you consider Kibaki's defying the courts in the county commissioners appointments, once again the court has done its job. The executive is the one who is the stumbling block by defying a court ruling. Keep in mind the new look judiciary is still at a fledgling state. It may take a while until the CJ can be in a position to lash out at the executive, which I guess is what you want to see. Baraza's unfortunate incident also meant the judiciary has had to take time out & investigate the actions of one of their own rather than tackle an executive who is being selective when it comes to adhering to court rulings. Finally coming to Nancy Baraza's case. Let's not forget that she had been in office only about a month or so when she decided to go beserk on a lowly watch(wo)man. The CJ, through the JSC, did the right thing & determined she had an integrity case to answer to. The executive did the right thing & appointed a tribunal. Eight months or so down the road, the tribunal has done the right thing & recommended her removal from the Supreme Court. To say this is a case of "selective persecution" isn't quite accurate. The Supreme Court forms the foundation of the new judiciary & the reforms Kenyans expect to see coming from it. Harbouring a criminal like Baraza as Deputy CJ would've forestalled ALL future improvements within the judiciary. This would in the long run even affect the disposal of the two other cases you mention. The fact that it may have been fast-tracked (which I suppose is what you are hinting at) is therefore not surprising if you look at it in that light. They needed to get rid of the speck in their eye before they tackle the logs in KE generally. So all in all, the courts in all the above cases are actually doing their job quite well. Other institutions are letting them down, but I suppose that may change with time.
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Post by nereah on Aug 20, 2012 18:16:02 GMT 3
b6k,
yes it is selective. the judiciary, parliament and executive makes the government of the republic of kenya whose president is mwai kibaki.the
take this to the bank, if nancy was politically correct, she would not be suffering the humiliation and torment. the amount of tax payers money spent on tackling her indiscretion and much more set to be spent,is ridiculous if we compare to other pressing judicial concerns like those i have mentioned above.
i reject the verdict because it was not what its primacy was not to serve the cold justice to kerubo but in my view which i am entitled to, serve some vested interests.
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Post by OtishOtish on Aug 20, 2012 18:52:28 GMT 3
The Judiciary is the only branch of our government that seems to be on track to becoming what Kenyans want. For that, we owe a great deal to Willy Mutunga.
There was a time when what Baraza did would be considered small; indeed, it was expected that people would know people. Such is no longer acceptable, as the vetting of judges, which Kenyans are very happy with, has shown.
It is unfortunate that Baraza's career should come to such an untidy end. But the lady asked for it, and she got it. Case closed, jury is dismissed with the thanks of the Public Court.
NEXT!
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Post by b6k on Aug 20, 2012 18:57:49 GMT 3
b6k, yes it is selective. the judiciary, parliament and executive makes the government of the republic of kenya whose president is mwai kibaki.the take this to the bank, if nancy was politically correct, she would not be suffering the humiliation and torment. the amount of tax payers money spent on tackling her indiscretion and much more set to be spent,is ridiculous if we compare to other pressing judicial concerns like those i have mentioned above. i reject the verdict because it was not what its primacy was not to serve the cold justice to kerubo but in my view which i am entitled to, serve some vested interests. Nereah, the findings of the tribunal were not made in order "to serve cold justice" for Kerubo but to determine whether Baraza's actions brought disrepute to the Supreme Court & if so, whether she could continue serving within it. Kerubo will be free to pursue an ordinary civil or criminal case against the (self-induced) humiliated Deputy CJ if she wishes to do so. Where are the politically correct Visram, Kilokumi, et al today if we are to believe your take on events? Nancy broke the law & she paid the price...period. Luckily for us, her knowing people was overtaken by the on-going changes so she couldn't cling on as would've been the case not too long ago in KE. With time even Kibaki himself will find out he is not above the law.
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Post by b6k on Aug 20, 2012 19:01:20 GMT 3
The Judiciary is the only branch of our government that seems to be on track to becoming what Kenyans want. For that, we owe a great deal to Willy Mutunga. There was a time when what Baraza did would be considered small; indeed, it was expected that people would know people. Such is no longer acceptable, as the vetting of judges, which Kenyans are very happy with, has shown. It is unfortunate that Baraza's career should come to such an untidy end. But the lady asked for it, and she got it. Case closed, jury is dismissed with the thanks of the Public Court. Let's move on. Absolutely. All the other branches of government & institutions will eventually move along with the changes or be dragged along kicking & screaming by the judiciary. I for one wish CJ Mutunga & his team well.
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Post by nereah on Sept 13, 2012 19:49:26 GMT 3
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Post by kamalet on Sept 14, 2012 9:39:14 GMT 3
wa Amadi Me thinks that Baraza should stop embarrassing women any further. She goofed big time in a very exalted position in the republic of Kenya and for that one reason, she needs to be beacon for most Kenyans that one can take responsibility for their actions which hopefully our men can follow! She has lost a lot of goodwill....she need not soil herself further!
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Post by OtishOtish on Sept 14, 2012 15:19:17 GMT 3
Everyone, including Sister Nancy, knows that she will get nowhere. But as long as she is still being paid big bucks, so I can see her point in dragging this out for as long as possible. Not that I support such picking of the taxpayers' pocket.
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 14, 2012 18:01:49 GMT 3
Everyone, including Sister Nancy, knows that she will get nowhere. But as long as she is still being paid big bucks, so I can see her point in dragging this out for as long as possible. Not that I support such picking of the taxpayers' pocket. The lady is a leech! I wonder what respectable term the sisters who support her flatter her with. Proved that she brandished a gun, waved it and threatened another body with it, while she is not licensed to carry one, which could indicate she is not familiar, competent, in the use of guns, she essentially should be in jail for endangering the life of Kerubo. One assumes Baraza would have the sense to know guns handled by amateurs can go off accidentally, and kill. That she ignored this common sense, would indicate she was outraged beyond reason in which case she can plead madness, otherwise, if she was normal, then this reaction betrays a judgment caliber just too dim for any profession --let alone those who may be called upon to deliberate matters of life and death. The true character of this leech is coming out. A picture in deed!
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Post by nereah on Sept 15, 2012 9:56:00 GMT 3
wanajukwaa we must decide what we believe in. either we believe in constitutionalism and the rule of law which dear sister nancy is stridently adhering to or not. to condemn nancy on the basis of hearsay and media driven drivel that was her public trial is against the rule of natural justice.
none of us is perfect and if we choose to cast aspersion on characters based on perceived indiscretion then lets do so indiscriminately. spare me that righteous indignation and the she versus the rest mantra.of course, its nancy on trial but why are some people fearful of her pursuit of justice as prescribed within her constitutional rights? why are they keen on her dropping the case?
i urge for patience and tolerance and let time be the arbiter. if we choose to be obtrusive and use the media reports to lynch her then be prepared to do so indiscriminately and subject her colleagues including those( my emphasis) who are bringing dishonour to this wonderful lady on the same moral pedestal.
it is height of hypocrisy and depth of malice and bad faith to insist on selective "public trial" when we all know that nancy and her senior colleague wily mutunga were cleared by competent authority to do the job that they are doing. we have failed to interrogate the motive and motivation of the accuser however much legitimate,lawful and moral her cause is.
i am saying that let nancy go all the way and if you choose to intimidate her then be prepared for the shocker.
sawa,now lets go to the dance floor.i can hear luo benga song aptly titled osiepe(friends) in which this talented singer celebrate genuine friends.shall we ;D
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Post by OtishOtish on Sept 15, 2012 17:00:14 GMT 3
wanajukwaa we must decide what we believe in. either we believe in constitutionalism and the rule of law which dear sister nancy is stridently adhering to or not. to condemn nancy on the basis of hearsay and media driven drivel that was her public trial is against the rule of natural justice. none of us is perfect and if we choose to cast aspersion on characters based on perceived indiscretion then lets do so indiscriminately. spare me that righteous indignation and the she versus the rest mantra.of course, its nancy on trial but why are some people fearful of her pursuit of justice as prescribed within her constitutional rights? why are they keen on her dropping the case? i urge for patience and tolerance and let time be the arbiter. if we choose to be obtrusive and use the media reports to lynch her then be prepared to do so indiscriminately and subject her colleagues including those( my emphasis) who are bringing dishonour to this wonderful lady on the same moral pedestal. it is height of hypocrisy and depth of malice and bad faith to insist on selective "public trial" when we all know that nancy and her senior colleague wily mutunga were cleared by competent authority to do the job that they are doing. we have failed to interrogate the motive and motivation of the accuser however much legitimate,lawful and moral her cause is. i am saying that let nancy go all the way and if you choose to intimidate her then be prepared for the shocker. sawa,now lets go to the dance floor.i can hear luo benga song aptly titled osiepe(friends) in which this talented singer celebrate genuine friends.shall we ;D Dada Nereah: Sister Nancy was suspended then kicked out (sort of) on the basis of pinching a nose and telling some lady to know people. On the face of it, that's not such a terrible thing. People beat up other people or say worse things to them every day, but they don't get fired. Sister Nancy was shown the door because of perceptions---the public considers that this sort of behaviour is not appropriate for such a position, and so far even her colleagues in the judiciary agree. She will not go through a trial, with people yelling "beyond reasonable doubt!". No, it will all be decided on the basis of perceptions. That, by the way, is also how the vetting of judges has gone: no judge fired has been tried and found guilty of anything; some did appear to be lazy or made bad judgments, but others were simply arrogant etc. We members of the public are simply adding to our perceptions on the matter. Sister Nancy may have been cleared before, but that did not amount to a license to thereafter do as she pleases. I don't see the need to "interrogate the motive and motivation of the accuser". Baraza did what she did. That is why people are on her case, and her accuser's motivations are not relevant. There is no "hypocrisy and depth of malice and bad faith"; the public is simply saying that it doesn't want a person in such a position behaving in that manner, and the public, as her employer, has every right to do that. As for "why are some people fearful of her pursuit of justice as prescribed within her constitutional rights?", I don't know who these fearful people are. But I do know that there are those of us who think she's wasting time and, more importantly, our money. Sister Nancy case so far has not been decided "on the basis of hearsay and media driven drivel". It has been decided after careful deliberation, by serious people including none other than her colleage and friend, Chief Justice Mutunga. That makes it very insulting that you should accuse people of being "obtrusive" and using "media reports to lynch". The end-result of this process is very clear for the the clear-eyed. Let's save the remaining tears and additional wailing for another, hopefully more worthy, case.
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Post by nereah on Sept 15, 2012 17:35:24 GMT 3
otishotish,
nice seeing you.i just want to be sure that i get you right:
1.could you by any chance be demanding that this wonderful lady, the learned sister,resign from office ipso facto ?
2.could you by any chance be advocating for non-judicial mechanism of defeating nancy's cause and quest?
3.are you by any chance convinced that nancy's fate is sealed and therefore seeking a judicial review of her doubtful condemnation by the tanzanian led team is a waste of time and money?
4.have you determined the basis of her appeal and could you by any chance know what would become of her quest if she proceeds as those of us who want this reasonable doubts dealt with are demanding?
5.just curious: what if the judicial inquest found her guilty and the accuser appealed, would it be a waste of time and taxpayers money? same to if the accuser had first gone to the court of law?
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Post by OtishOtish on Sept 15, 2012 18:19:04 GMT 3
otishotish, nice seeing you.i just want to be sure that i get you right: 1.could you by any chance be demanding that this wonderful lady, the learned sister,resign from office ipso facto ? 2.could you by any chance be advocating for non-judicial mechanism of defeating nancy's cause and quest? 3.are you by any chance convinced that nancy's fate is sealed and therefore seeking a judicial review of her doubtful condemnation by the tanzanian led team is a waste of time and money? 4.have you determined the basis of her appeal and could you by any chance know what would become of her quest if she proceeds as those of us who want this reasonable doubts dealt with are demanding? 5.just curious: what if the judicial inquest found her guilty and the accuser appealed, would it be a waste of time and taxpayers money? same to if the accuser had first gone to the court of law? Dada Nereah: Let me cut to the chase: Baraza will not be back as Deputy CJ. We can wail, gnash our teeth, tear out our hair, shed tears by the gallon, ... but the fact remains that she is out. So let's wait for that inevitable outcome of a judicial process and then resume our discussion about value or whatever of the appeal.
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Post by nereah on Sept 16, 2012 17:26:43 GMT 3
Dada Nereah: Let me cut to the chase: Baraza will not be back as Deputy CJ. We can wail, gnash our teeth, tear out our hair, shed tears by the gallon, ... but the fact remains that she is out. So let's wait for that inevitable outcome of a judicial process and then resume our discussion about value or whatever of the appeal. i am game,brother otishotish
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Post by b6k on Sept 16, 2012 19:03:35 GMT 3
wanajukwaa we must decide what we believe in. either we believe in constitutionalism and the rule of law which dear sister nancy is stridently adhering to or not. to condemn nancy on the basis of hearsay and media driven drivel that was her public trial is against the rule of natural justice. none of us is perfect and if we choose to cast aspersion on characters based on perceived indiscretion then lets do so indiscriminately. spare me that righteous indignation and the she versus the rest mantra.of course, its nancy on trial but why are some people fearful of her pursuit of justice as prescribed within her constitutional rights? why are they keen on her dropping the case? i urge for patience and tolerance and let time be the arbiter. if we choose to be obtrusive and use the media reports to lynch her then be prepared to do so indiscriminately and subject her colleagues including those( my emphasis) who are bringing dishonour to this wonderful lady on the same moral pedestal. it is height of hypocrisy and depth of malice and bad faith to insist on selective "public trial" when we all know that nancy and her senior colleague wily mutunga were cleared by competent authority to do the job that they are doing. we have failed to interrogate the motive and motivation of the accuser however much legitimate,lawful and moral her cause is. i am saying that let nancy go all the way and if you choose to intimidate her then be prepared for the shocker. sawa,now lets go to the dance floor.i can hear luo benga song aptly titled osiepe(friends) in which this talented singer celebrate genuine friends.shall we ;D Nereah, we went beyond "hearsay and media driven drivel" when an independent tribunal led by a former justice from TZ was held; a tribunal Nancy Baraza could have easily avoided had she taken the golden handshake route offered to her if she had resigned. At least she would've had some money to show for her troubles. The DCJ is toast! How ironic that she went down when engaged in the act of insulting a fellow woman. Life can be wickedly cruel at times....
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Post by OtishOtish on Sept 16, 2012 19:11:14 GMT 3
How ironic that she went down when engaged in the act of insulting a fellow woman. Life can be wickedly cruel at times.... That needs to be reported to Kathure. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2012 19:53:39 GMT 3
How ironic that she went down when engaged in the act of insulting a fellow woman. Life can be wickedly cruel at times.... That needs to be reported to Kathure. ;D b6kmen insult other men every day. I don't see any expectations that they take special caution in their dealings with each other. a double standard for women is what you're advocating for here. as for you otishotish, you're on a mission to provoke me. funny that! so that you could turn around and dismiss what i say under the pretext that my emotionality has gotten in the way and such. You've shown me exactly who you are. A consciously misogynist man. See, many men are unconsciously so. not you. You wear it like a badge of honor. Also there's the angle of you wanting to stick it to me as moderator. Like a wee kid you're into the "what will you do about that eh?". Keep it coming. We'll see where it ends!
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Post by OtishOtish on Sept 16, 2012 20:03:51 GMT 3
. as for you otishotish, you're on a mission to provoke me. funny that! so that you could turn around and dismiss what i say under the pretext that my emotionality has gotten in the way and such. You've shown me exactly who you are. A consciously misogynist man. See, many men are unconsciously so. not you. You wear it like a badge of honor. Also there's the angle of you wanting to stick it to me as moderator. Like a wee kid you're into the "what will you do about that eh?". Keep it coming. We'll see where it ends! Dada, I have no desire to provoke you. What's more, I have no doubt that once you cut back on the rabid misandry ("unconscious"?) , we'll get along very well. Please think about it. I rarely think of your status as moderator except in "unsual" circumstances, such as when you chose to publicly trade filthy, pesonal insults with roughrider; I found that a bit odd for a moderator.
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