|
Post by roughrider on Mar 14, 2012 12:51:32 GMT 3
Team Uhuru has yet to find an answer to these two statements. The normally vocal William Ruto has also taken a back seat and is unable to substantiate his claims that Raila Odinga was the chief benefitiary of the Post Elections Violence especially since RAS actually clarified that the Prime Minister was the biggest loser There is no need to substantiate the obvious (with apologies to Seroney). The Prime Minister was the biggest beneficiary of the violence. Without it, he would not now be in office; and nor would his office possess the powers it now does. No one else carved out such an important office for themselves on the back of the violence.Poor Seroney. I too have used his statement when I had neither evidence nor time to make a case. As it is this remains your view or analysis shared by several others. There are other views including those of Justice Johann Kriegler that I find interesting. My view is that Mwai Kibaki was the biggest beneficiary - he lost the elections and still remained President. William Ruto benefited from IDP land but I think that was pyrrhic since he now faces difficult cases.
|
|
|
Post by danieldotwaweru on Mar 14, 2012 13:21:33 GMT 3
Poor Seroney. I too have used his statement when I had neither evidence nor time to make a case. As it is this remains your view or analysis shared by several others. There are other views including those of Justice Johann Kriegler that I find interesting. My view is that Mwai Kibaki was the biggest beneficiary - he lost the elections and still remained President. William Ruto benefited from IDP land but I think that was pyrrhic since he now faces difficult cases.
In general, it's a mistake to attempt to argue for everything, for whence the requirement to argue for everything? It cannot itself be argued for, on pain of begging the question. More generally, some things which are self-evident; their denial a sign of irrationality or other indisposition. ODM partisans and the like will deny that Raila was the biggest beneficiary of the violence, but that is a denial of the obvious, and therefore diagnostic of irrationality or a want of good sense.
I notice you employ the undergraduate-relativist trick of asserting that such and such is a personal view; the implication invited is that it is not true. Well, in this case, as in others, the personal opinion happens also to be true.
Would you be willing to point to the part of the Kriegler report you have in mind? Relatedly, Jorgen Elklit, Kriegler's polling expert, has been notably and directly uncomplimentary in regard of ODM's claim of victory.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 13:40:32 GMT 3
Team Uhuru has yet to find an answer to these two statements. The normally vocal William Ruto has also taken a back seat and is unable to substantiate his claims that Raila Odinga was the chief benefitiary of the Post Elections Violence especially since RAS actually clarified that the Prime Minister was the biggest loser There is no need to substantiate the obvious (with apologies to Seroney). The Prime Minister was the biggest beneficiary of the violence. Without it, he would not now be in office; and nor would his office possess the powers it now does. No one else carved out such an important office for themselves on the back of the violence.That's a straight up lie DWKibaki becomes president precisly because he and those around him orchestrated a violent civilan coup. That is how Kenyans ended up with 4 more years of a very sleepy President. Raila was the rightfully elected president. Everyone the world over knows this except people like you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 13:56:33 GMT 3
Prime Minister of Kenya, Raila Amolo Odinga speaks during a press conference on March 8, 2012 at the EU Headquarters in Brussels. EU Council President Herman Van Rompuy (R) welcomes Kenyan Prime Minister Raila Odinga (L) on March 7, 2012 before a working session at the EU Headquarters in Brussels. EU Council president Herman Van Rompuy (R) and Prime minister of Kenya Raila Odinga (L) give a joint press conference after their working session on March 7, 2012 at the EU Headquarters in Brussels. European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso (R) and Prime Minister of Kenya, Raila Amolo Odinga (L) give a joint press conference after their working session on March 8, 2012 at the EU Headquarters in Brussels. Prime Minister Raila Odinga and President of European Council Mr Herman Van Rompuy after a joint press briefing at the Justus Lipsius Building in Brussels, Belgium on March 7, 2012. There are currently three imperial capitals. DC, Brussels and Beijin. In the shadows is a fuming Moscow and a plotting Delhi [Dilli], but these two have a limited global reach. For the moment in any case. It is customary in every epoch, that top pretenders to governorships and prefectorates of some remote provinces of the empire, come to the capital to interviewed and to pledge their loyalty in search of the commission. [That is an old word for a high ranking political post.] There are interests to safegaurd, and empires like continuity. This does not always go according to plan though. On the extreme side of pretenders from hell is Patrice Lumumba. Visiting DC, he was articulate and indomitable. The congolese people wanted an independence with content, where they could exploit their natural resources for their own prosperity. He did not want to be anybody's puppet, neither did he want the Congo to be some vassal state of some external power. This was a declaration of independece far at variance with imperial codes and dictates. A will that had to be crushed. And it was the cream of Havard ---men like Obama-- of that generation that authored Lumumba's murder; of course in concert with their local allies. It was this same Havard cream that did Allende of Chile, Diem of South Vietnam and a host of other third world leaders in, in the so called CIA blackop files. Fidel Castro seems to be the solitary cat with many lives. Imperial capitals then, have a robust if invicible hand of imposing their will if met with resistance. On the ones from heaven, at least from the perspective of imperial power, Anwar Sadat [Egypt] and Boigny [Ivory Coast] may be the leading candidates form the Africa of yester years. It is with this background in mind that I view Raila's last trip to Brussels. It was a job interview. Of course he is not the only candidate, and the imperial bareaucrats at the foreign and colonial office will be interviewing all of them in various disguises, if only to have a careful impression of the thinking of the elite of that distant and far flung provice called Kenya. That a nice playground where royalties may ask their girls for their hand. Chaps like Karua and Kenneth will sure have their day at ther grill before officials from one or all three capitals. For some reason, the propaganda department of the PM botched up the spin, letting the state visit be subsumed by the furore over the response of a forged letter about the ICC indictees. Raila's visit to Brussels has thus been reduced to a private lobbying affair to fix Uhuruto ahead of the elections! courtesy of his bumbling PR machine. ----------- Herman van Rompuy is an unassuming bareaucrat. His nodescript figure is a perfect decoy for one of the EU's deadliest operators. A mean machine. The president of Europe. [Europe has many 'presidents', if you recall Donal Rumsfeld's irritation in the run to the Iraq war: hell, what is the number you call when you want to speak to the person who speaks for Europe!] Well, currently between Barroso, van Rompuy and whichever head of whatever state that occupies the rotating presidency, van Rompuy has emerged during the financial crisis as the guy on top of the game. Merkozy went on holiday leaving the stable door open, Barroso was witless and confused, but van Rompuy, who had gotten the job because he was a rat of no consequence in the eyes of the tribal chieftains of Germany and France, had the best presence of mind to bolt the stable doors and contain the crisis. He holds the job which Tony Blair was tipped to have, and it is a great story for another day [how Blair lost to him]. This wily fox sized up Raila. And I am still waiting for Dennis Onyango's version. The following account is based on titibits in the corridors, since nobody will be quoted in public, even if the stuff does not fall under the official secrets act! Not surprisingly [it is a usual trait in Kenyan politicians. Remember the new Finance minister's first meeting with the IMF last month] Raila was not well briefed on the tenacity of the fellow he was going to face. The Belgian, who never repeats his questions, giving his guests the opportunity to reveal they have no answer to them by pretending they have not heard him, inquired if all was going well with the implemetation of the new constitution, and the preparation for the elections. Yap, replied the Kenyan. And then his buttocks started to cook. [That is continental for being in a hot seat that increasingly heats up.] 2. Has the election date been agreed then? And the electoral commission, they have everything in place, foolproof? Is the head of that body in your delegation, that he can brief us more... see how rigging can be prevented in advance, such that we do not have a repeat of... PEV 2007... 3. That loan with the IMF negotiated by the last finance minister. Is the new finance minister okay with it? ... He kind of fixed the value of the shilling to the dollar without reserves.. was that a cabinet decision.... Christine Lagard's office says... your govet are barely solvent.. 4. Western oil companies are monopolising Libyan oil in the new Libya. Can we count on you if there is a surge in african nationalism in the AU, led by South Africa, against european cannibalism? 5.If the war against Iran comes... is there a problem Kenyan airspace being NATO airspace? and so too Kenyan waters... 6. You are a major oil importer, facing expensive elections. Iran is under severe sanctions and looking. If they gave you the deal of your life, would you resist? 7. You support Sachs for the World Bank! And you do not know the EU position, and you are asking Holland on behalf of your farmers to re-legalise Kat? ... not very discreet don't you think! 8. That Lamu deep port. The financing chinese want a clause that restricts millitary ships calling, to theirs only. So near the oil shipping lane, NATO finds Lamu must be a free port! we welcome a frank exchange of views! 9. The idea of a United Somali nation dies. What do you think? If we recognize Somaliland independence... Kibaki in London had no idea where.... 10. In your opinion, can the ICC indictees run for the presidency with their cases on, given your your parliament passes a law okaying it? Now, that last, the Belgian forced or smoked Agwambo out a bit. Not sure if he asked for a public indication of one way or another. Triggering the chemical exchange of the last days. ------------- I wish our politicians would learn the need to publicly account for their numerous state visits abroad. They keep the contents secret from Kenyans, while in those countries the contents are not that classified. NB: In London on the sides of the Somali conference, Kibaki could not keep his appointments, and when he did, he was incoherent and his concentration wanting. If you ask me, that is a walking corpse as the excellency your president. jakaswangathanks for highlighting the imperialist issues that Kenyans must grapple with even as we take care of our very own home grown oppressors!
|
|
|
Post by nowayhaha on Mar 14, 2012 14:04:01 GMT 3
There is no need to substantiate the obvious (with apologies to Seroney). The Prime Minister was the biggest beneficiary of the violence. Without it, he would not now be in office; and nor would his office possess the powers it now does. No one else carved out such an important office for themselves on the back of the violence.That's a straight up lie DWKibaki becomes president precisly because he and those around him ocastrated a violent civilan coup. That is how Kenyans ended up with 4 more years of a very sleepy President. Raila was the rightfully elected president. Everyone the world over knows this except people like you. KK , Its such type of statements/remarks especially from Raila and his followers which led to the violence witnessed in 2008, do you have any evidence that Raila or Kibaki orchestrated a violent coup, a matter of fact who amongst the 2 came to power due to a violent coup remember No Raila No Peace call by the lieutenants ? Everyone in the world knows this .....who is everyone in the world ? Ruto , Balala and now Mudavadi........ or is it Midiwo , Orengo amd the likes of kajwang -ODM is Raila's party Honestly its such type of attitudes which led to the P.E.V. If Raila doesnt become the president then Kenya is finished . Raila should sell his policies on how how he will make Kenya a better place or in that matter improve Kenya from it social , political , economical position e.t.c. and his supporters should use this opportunity to sell his policies and convince the unbelievers into accepting a Raila presidency due to its benefits. Else we find ourselves in 2012 5 years latter in the same scenario as 2007 ...Kibaki betrayed Raila on M.O.U - Kibaki " stole elections from Raila in 2012 - Kenya should burn .
|
|
|
Post by danieldotwaweru on Mar 14, 2012 14:22:19 GMT 3
There is no need to substantiate the obvious (with apologies to Seroney). The Prime Minister was the biggest beneficiary of the violence. Without it, he would not now be in office; and nor would his office possess the powers it now does. No one else carved out such an important office for themselves on the back of the violence.That's a straight up lie DWKibaki becomes president precisly because he and those around him ocastrated a violent civilan coup. That is how Kenyans ended up with 4 more years of a very sleepy President. Raila was the rightfully elected president. Everyone the world over knows this except people like you.
The Waki report has nice examples of ODMers in the Rift Valley voting six or seven times. Virtually all of the constituencies in Nyanza had turnouts above 85%more than any other province. Those two facts aloneeven setting aside the murders of properly-empowered police officers on polling dayare sufficient to put paid to the claim that Raila was the rightfully elected President. You might want to settle for the less obviously false claim that Raila won a majority of valid votes cast, and 25% in five provinces.
For an example of someone who does not know that Raila was the rightfully elected President, you might want to see Kriegler.
|
|
|
Post by roughrider on Mar 14, 2012 15:19:39 GMT 3
That's a straight up lie DWKibaki becomes president precisly because he and those around him ocastrated a violent civilan coup. That is how Kenyans ended up with 4 more years of a very sleepy President. Raila was the rightfully elected president. Everyone the world over knows this except people like you. Of course he lies KK. People even called for a re-run Kibaki rejected this, knowing he had lost and would lose again.
|
|
|
Post by ebarasi on Mar 14, 2012 15:50:15 GMT 3
That's a straight up lie DWKibaki becomes president precisly because he and those around him ocastrated a violent civilan coup. That is how Kenyans ended up with 4 more years of a very sleepy President. Raila was the rightfully elected president. Everyone the world over knows this except people like you. KK , Its such type of statements/remarks especially from Raila and his followers which led to the violence witnessed in 2008, do you have any evidence that Raila or Kibaki orchestrated a violent coup, a matter of fact who amongst the 2 came to power due to a violent coup remember No Raila No Peace call by the lieutenants ? Everyone in the world knows this .....who is everyone in the world ? Ruto , Balala and now Mudavadi........ or is it Midiwo , Orengo amd the likes of kajwang -ODM is Raila's party Honestly its such type of attitudes which led to the P.E.V. If Raila doesnt become the president then Kenya is finished . Raila should sell his policies on how how he will make Kenya a better place or in that matter improve Kenya from it social , political , economical position e.t.c. and his supporters should use this opportunity to sell his policies and convince the unbelievers into accepting a Raila presidency due to its benefits. Else we find ourselves in 2012 5 years latter in the same scenario as 2007 ...Kibaki betrayed Raila on M.O.U - Kibaki " stole elections from Raila in 2012 - Kenya should burn . Nowayhaha, You can lie yourself to sleep and that's fine but you will not take us all with you. Kibaki was fully in charge of the the defunct ECK after arbitrarily appointing ECK commissioners. Why do you think he made those unilateral appointments? He was fully in charge of the security apparatus. Who whisked away Kivuitu to secretly announce the cooked electoral results? When Justice Kriegler says that electoral irregularities messed up so much that it was difficult to conclude who won, who do you think benefitted on that score? Do you need more evidence of how the civilian coup was engineered? Kibaki had the constitutional mandate to act like a statesman/leader and he fell short. It is on his watch that broken promises and deals led to the kind of mistrust and wanton destruction that took place. Like it or not that is his report card for the first 5 years of his presidency. The ratcheting up of political temperatures by his erstwhile supporters has also gone on under his watch. How has he tried to reign them in? By allowing Ruto to ride on the presidential land rover? Play with fire at your own risk. Freedom and dignity are so valuable that throughout human history anyone who tried to limit them eventually got crushed by their might.
|
|
|
Post by nalinali on Mar 14, 2012 17:08:27 GMT 3
Team Uhuru has yet to find an answer to these two statements. The normally vocal William Ruto has also taken a back seat and is unable to substantiate his claims that Raila Odinga was the chief benefitiary of the Post Elections Violence especially since RAS actually clarified that the Prime Minister was the biggest loser There is no need to substantiate the obvious (with apologies to Seroney). The Prime Minister was the biggest beneficiary of the violence. Without it, he would not now be in office; and nor would his office possess the powers it now does. No one else carved out such an important office for themselves on the back of the violence.Idiot
|
|
|
Post by mangai on Mar 14, 2012 17:48:40 GMT 3
I didn't know Pheroze Nowrojee could be this humorous! www.the-star.co.ke/opinions/pheroze-norwojee/66825-open-letter-to-the-uk-from-yahoo-mpOpen Letter To The UK From Yahoo MP WEDNESDAY, 14 MARCH 2012 00:13 BY PHEROZE NOWROJEE Thank you for your letter which your friend in the British High Commission passed on to me in confidence. It is these simple friendly gestures that have kept the UK-Kenya special relationship going all these ears. When I showed your letter to my two Presidential Asprinant friends they were full of praze. They admired your command of Kwin’s English. But some of our useless political opponents here keep complaining about spellig mistakes. They say there were too many of these. But I told them this was perfectly normal. Even I wrote like this in school. And look at me now. I am an M.P. The boy who used to sit next to me and got all his dictation correct is only a nano-neuro-surjun at M.I.T., and no one knows even what that is. These cycofants of Ryela also keep talking about something called ‘gramma’? What is the this? I told them it was not for them to determine whether or not my letters have typos. What about them! They cannot even spell Kisoomoo correctly. And ‘Thinga’?! What sort of Jaluo name is that?! Anyway, one of these ears, when my two Presidential Asprinant friends become influencial again, they will fix a Roads Scholarship for me and I will spend a few weeks at Auxford to sort out these miner things. But to be on the safe side, this letter has gone through at least 20 of my friends before being sent to you, to make sure I do not make any spellig mistakes like you did. It is impossible that any document from me could contain such alimentary errurs. Also, I think that instead of me answering these very rude persons, it should be the UK government that should respond to the questions on the contents of your letter. I think you should grant them an opportunity to question the Kwin. I am going to unlish more documents even if some people say that I manufacture them. So send me more letters. Tell Peter Tibb I got his note of salaams. He could not get his name right : he wrote ‘Tibber’. See how normal it is to get spelligs wrong. Greetings also to Edward Outlett. I didn’t know he had left his desk. They are now saying your letter is a forgery. What a libel! I think you should sue. I know a good lawyer. He tells me S.23(g) of the National Assembly (Powers & Privileges) Act, Cap.6, Laws of Kenya, says : “Any person who presents to the Assembly or a Committee any false, untrue, fabricated or falsified document with intent to deceive the Assembly or Committee, shall be guilty of an offence and be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years.” The lawyer says this might apply to me! But what does he know about Parlament and politricks. As long as we got the headlines on last Friday, what does ‘correction’ matter? I had photocopies made of the newspapers of Friday and have been distributing them at night to our followers. This advoket said that if the lie had been told under oath, then I would have also committed perjury under the Penal Code. The advoket also says that any M.P. can seek leave from the Speaker to raise the false document tabled by me as an issue of parliamentary privilege. “Privilege issues take precedence over all other parliamentary business. So, if Mr.Speaker agreed, the matter could be debated as first business the next day.” (D’Arcy) He said that as an M.P., I am a State Officer and have to abide by the national values in Art.10 of the new Constitution. I am liable to be disqualified to stand in the future if I am found in law to have “in any way contravened Chapter Six” (Art.99(2)) on Leadership and Integrity. My friends and I don’t take these provisions very seriously. So I had been advised by the advisers of my two Presidential Asprinant friends that what I say in the House is privileged. Thus, I could say and table anything. Yet this lawyer friend now tells me that it is contempt of Parlament to lie to the House or to any of its committees. The Speaker could take action, he warns. I don’t know whom to believe, but I know my two friends would get me out somehow, because I am doing all this for their benefit. Your friend, Charles Swillonzo, Yahoo MP.
|
|
|
Post by mwalimumkuu on Mar 14, 2012 17:58:45 GMT 3
There is no need to substantiate the obvious (with apologies to Seroney). The Prime Minister was the biggest beneficiary of the violence. Without it, he would not now be in office; and nor would his office possess the powers it now does. No one else carved out such an important office for themselves on the back of the violence.Idiot Nalinali, You will need to style-up my friend. If you have nothing to say, don't say it here.
|
|
|
Post by gemagema on Mar 14, 2012 20:01:16 GMT 3
While it is thunderously true that Kibaki sits on a stolen presidency and his theft is what led to the PEV, we must bury the past. Actually, sometimes I really sympathize with Ruto, because, had the election not been stolen by Kibaki, Uhuru and crew, this guy would not be having to face the criminal charges at the Hague. Only the Boss aka Uhuru, deserves being locked up in the Hague. Anyways come 2012, we shall finally have "Mtukufu Rais Raila Amollo Odinga". Kenya itaenda mbele as Ruto and Uhuru enjoy several cheese breakfasts of the dutch.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 20:13:18 GMT 3
While it is thunderously true that Kibaki sits on a stolen presidency and his theft is what led to the PEV, we must bury the past. Actually, sometimes I really sympathize with Ruto, because, had the election not been stolen by Kibaki, Uhuru and crew, this guy would not be having to face the criminal charges at the Hague. Only the Boss aka Uhuru, deserves being locked up in the Hague. Anyways come 2012, we shall finally have "Mtukufu Rais Raila Amollo Odinga". Kenya itaenda mbele as Ruto and Uhuru enjoy several cheese breakfasts of the dutch. Uhuru and crew got Ruto into this mess and Ruto's rage towards Raila is misdirected. He should be raging at Uhuru who has brought his political career to a screeching halt.
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Mar 14, 2012 21:57:29 GMT 3
While it is thunderously true that Kibaki sits on a stolen presidency and his theft is what led to the PEV, we must bury the past. Actually, sometimes I really sympathize with Ruto, because, had the election not been stolen by Kibaki, Uhuru and crew, this guy would not be having to face the criminal charges at the Hague. Only the Boss aka Uhuru, deserves being locked up in the Hague. Anyways come 2012, we shall finally have "Mtukufu Rais Raila Amollo Odinga". Kenya itaenda mbele as Ruto and Uhuru enjoy several cheese breakfasts of the dutch. Uhuru and crew got Ruto into this mess and Ruto's rage towards Raila is misdirected. He should be raging at Uhuru who has brought his political career to a screeching halt. Confusion or revision(ism)? Reason why Kenyans are like warthogs, they have a very poor memory that KK can even get away with this!!!
|
|
|
Post by danieldotwaweru on Mar 14, 2012 22:16:56 GMT 3
That's a straight up lie DWKibaki becomes president precisly because he and those around him ocastrated a violent civilan coup. That is how Kenyans ended up with 4 more years of a very sleepy President. Raila was the rightfully elected president. Everyone the world over knows this except people like you. Of course he lies KK. People even called for a re-run Kibaki rejected this, knowing he had lost and would lose again. There was no chance of a rerun. We were in the middle of post-independence Kenya's most extensive bout of ethnic cleansing. No election held under those circumstances would have been free and fair. Any election risked making a bad situation significantly worse. Even if the government had been willing to do it, it was never going to get the necessary support from donors. In any case, Annan decided against fresh elections even before he came to Kenya (cf. p. 4 of Prisoner of Peace.)
|
|
|
Post by abdulmote on Mar 15, 2012 0:02:24 GMT 3
You don�t have to start the PEV blame game all over again.
Whilst it may true that Raila may have been the biggest beneficiary of the PEV, the O4 suspects did not have to deliberately and consciously organise the resultant and targeted massacres upon the innocent victims. Raila did not! Or at least there is no suggestion and or evidence which may support such allegations. The difference is distinctively and definitely clear.
As for Raila calling on the �prayerful� duo, I think the man is sometimes too naive and slow of action for his own good! Just look at what Miguna did to him and now Mudamba! I just wonder what or who is going to be next poisonous kin if he is to survive all this.
|
|
|
Post by job on Mar 15, 2012 4:22:52 GMT 3
Remember Uhuru Kenyatta's promise to issue a comprehensive statement in rebuttal to the charge from the PM's Secretariat (alluding to possible absconding & non-cooperation with ICC from Uhuru/Ruto et al)? Well, Uhuru just blinked. He can't dare say (from his own mouth) that the UK dossier is genuine. After the NSIS declared the document tabled in Parliament a fraud, Uhuru has changed tact...instead sending surrogates to do the talking... oops.. lying...lest ICC takes note of his propensity to lie (in public) without blinking. www.the-star.co.ke/national/national/66749-uhuru-raila-war-of-words-intensifies
However the Uhuru side has continued to insist that the document is genuine. “We are working on bigger ideas of uniting this country and we cannot respond to the Prime Minister’s attacks,” said Uhuru's spokesman Munyori Buku yesterday. “We don’t wish to respond to the statements because he (Raila) has been caught in the middle of this conspiracy,” he said. As to why Uhuru failed to show up for the National Cohesion Conference being hosted by Mzalendo Kibunja... which was attended by among others the PM and VP www.the-star.co.ke/national/national/66767-kalonzo-calls-for-truce-among-political-leadersHere's Uhuru's response: But Uhuru had no kind words for the Chairman of the National Cohesion and Integration Commission Dr Mzalendo Kibunjia, whom he accused of working with Raila to embarrass him. Uhuru had been scheduled to speak on Monday soon after Raila at the NCIC conference but did not show up.
According to Uhuru, the NCIC conference was a trap. “I have seen a story saying the DPM Uhuru Kenyatta was to speak at the ongoing cohesion conference but did not turn up. Let me put the record straight. On Sunday afternoon, several hours before the conference, NCIC chairman Mzalendo Kibunjia was frantically trying to invite Mr Kenyatta and scheduling him for 2.30pm the following day. Surely this conference must have been planned for months. Did the Commission plan to invite him? Of course not,” Buku said.
He wondered why Kibunjia waited until the last minute to invite him to address the meeting, adding that there was an ill motive behind the request. “After the PM’s incitement in the Sunday papers, the chairman was of the view that the conference needed some window dressing. The DPM was to be that window dressing. How did Mr Kibunjia programme Mr Kenyatta for 2.30pm yesterday yet Mr Kenyatta had not accepted the invitation.
Surely, the DPM is not idle to be ambushed like that. Wonder of wonders, the commission is still looking for DPM today,” Buku said yesterday. [/b] www.the-star.co.ke/national/national/66749-uhuru-raila-war-of-words-intensifies [/blockquote]
|
|
|
Post by topnotch on Mar 15, 2012 16:22:18 GMT 3
|
|
|
Post by mintos on Mar 15, 2012 17:13:20 GMT 3
“We are working on bigger ideas of uniting this country and we cannot respond to the Prime Minister’s attacks,” said Uhuru's spokesman Munyori Buku yesterday
Anyone who heard Kameme FM Wednesday night where a whole session was dedicated to discussing the PM with callers calling in to disparage Raila saying how he is destroying kikuyus, and that session also had Uhuru himself call in and was allocated some time to do the same on air?
So that was one of the "big ideas of re-uniting the country" that he is working on?
|
|
|
Post by tnk on Mar 15, 2012 19:17:43 GMT 3
;D ;D they probably had such scanners at min of finance when a certain DPM was running the show maajabu kweli
|
|
|
Post by job on Mar 15, 2012 19:52:09 GMT 3
“We are working on bigger ideas of uniting this country and we cannot respond to the Prime Minister’s attacks,” said Uhuru's spokesman Munyori Buku yesterday Anyone who heard Kameme FM Wednesday night where a whole session was dedicated to discussing the PM with callers calling in to disparage Raila saying how he is destroying kikuyus, and that session also had Uhuru himself call in and was allocated some time to do the same on air? So that was one of the "big ideas of re-uniting the country" that he is working on? I have slowly observed something in Uhuru Kenyatta's character -- a trait his opponents will likely capitalize on politically. This fella has a real thin skin easily proved by little tests. You only need to provoke Uhuru a bit and watch the ensuing discombobulation of his fortitude. Tables will be banged frantically, angry press conferences will be assembled, expletive slurs will be verbally unleashed (ethnic matusis); hate rallies will be hurriedly convened; and priviledged calls made to vernacular radio waves (to dish raw incitement). The passion with which the hate is carried is scary. Entrusting leadership to unstable characters with such temperament can be very dangerous in my view. The nation has intermittently watched Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta's true character swing from passive urbane into a village-level and aggressive browbeat (whenever faced with heat). Right before our eyes, we saw his meltdown when Raila insinuated in a teaser, about the former's over-indulgence in pombe na bangi. Next, he was tested when Raila rejected his preferred nominations into the Judiciary. Right before TV cameras, Uhuru's fist almost burst open (through) a tabletop...and boom Kimundu was baptised. The silver lining is that advance exposure of such temperament is useful in decoding mind dilemmas by folks who couldn't even fathom Uhuru masterminding ethnic atrocities described by the OTP at the ICC. Seeing and hearing deep-seated anger and ethnic cacooning from Uhuru helps explains certain claims by Ocampo. The unveiling of this hitherto unknown side of Uhuru is good during his current interview to be Kenya's fourth President ...after Jomo Kenyatta, his father. Now (if minto's account of Uhuru's vernacular tribal incitement is true) -- then Uhuru's own standard for conduct of national leaders is broken by himself. His would qualify for archaic and brazen tribal incitement which has nothing to do with national unity. In a researched (scholarly) paper, Prof. Peter Kagwanja exposed Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta as a double-faced character who can denounce Mungiki by the day yet meet them secretly at night. The Kameme FM call-in seems to fall in line with this modus operandi. Now that Raila's Secretariat has decided to issue rapid press rebutals of the numerous lies, distortions, and misrepresentations spewed by the ICC-accused, expect more of the same response. Conspicuous silence at the national stage; incitement and matusis at Kameme FM and prayer rallies! Uhuru will balk at the national stage, retreat into his tribal enclave, and likely engage in more slurs and incitement of anarchy & violence. Someone looks like they ain't ready to go down alone. There's need to tightly wrap himself with the blanket of tribal sympathy. It appears the best way to solicit that sympathy is to invoke more anti-Kimundu hate rhetoric...best luck to him. Let him feed his audience with that constant diet...24-7-365. In the end, this is all about escapism. These antics won't change discomforting facts confronting him --- charges of mass murder; and prospects of convincing majority of the nation (in an election) that it was actually justified to target particular communities (in 2007/8) for atrocious crimes against humanity. It is quite difficult to masquearade as a symbol of unity ready to unify the country when: you're busy spewing hate at Kameme FM; forging documents to create friction between Kenya and foreign countries; and worse, when the OTP unveil raw evidence of your participation in mass murder of fellow citizens (of different ethnicities). Some people talk hate; others go ahead and kill in the name of hate. The nation can see the difference.
|
|
|
Post by adongo23456 on Mar 15, 2012 20:03:22 GMT 3
The scanner thing just cracked me up. Eti- the scanner changes spellings and grammar! Where do they get these people from? Whatever they are drinking is not good for them. And then the mau mau talk. Apparently Kibaki lost relatives in the mau mau battles with wakoloni and Kibaki unbanned mau mau. What does this have to do with forging documents and messing up spellings in the forgeries?
|
|
|
Post by mank on Mar 15, 2012 21:13:18 GMT 3
You don�t have to start the PEV blame game all over again.
Whilst it may true that Raila may have been the biggest beneficiary of the PEV, the O4 suspects did not have to deliberately and consciously organise the resultant and targeted massacres upon the innocent victims. Raila did not! Or at least there is no suggestion and or evidence which may support such allegations. The difference is distinctively and definitely clear.
As for Raila calling on the �prayerful� duo, I think the man is sometimes too naive and slow of action for his own good! Just look at what Miguna did to him and now Mudamba! I just wonder what or who is going to be next poisonous kin if he is to survive all this. The real question is whether the O4 did "deliberately and consciously organise the resultant and targeted massacres upon the innocent victims." As I recall, many who so enthusiastically condemn the violence now were even more enthusiastically routing for the violence while it was afoot! Their complaints then were not that there was violence, rather that anybody was calling for an end to violence! And at that time there was absolutely no mention of any of the Ocampo 4, or even any of the Ocampo 6 set. I am not making this up ... it is somewhere on this Jukwaa! So something has changed. If we want truth we have to start from the beginning and track the process all through. What changed, when, why, who was involved and how? These are not questions people want asked when they have a made-up end in their mind that they want to see perfected in reality. But some of us want to know the truth, and we do not care who is found villain in the process of unfolding the truth. So I man say, lets start from the beginning and not shy from any of it.
|
|
emali
Full Member
Posts: 219
|
Post by emali on Mar 16, 2012 12:13:00 GMT 3
You don�t have to start the PEV blame game all over again.
Whilst it may true that Raila may have been the biggest beneficiary of the PEV, the O4 suspects did not have to deliberately and consciously organise the resultant and targeted massacres upon the innocent victims. Raila did not! Or at least there is no suggestion and or evidence which may support such allegations. The difference is distinctively and definitely clear.
As for Raila calling on the �prayerful� duo, I think the man is sometimes too naive and slow of action for his own good! Just look at what Miguna did to him and now Mudamba! I just wonder what or who is going to be next poisonous kin if he is to survive all this. The real question is whether the O4 did "deliberately and consciously organise the resultant and targeted massacres upon the innocent victims." As I recall, many who so enthusiastically condemn the violence now were even more enthusiastically routing for the violence while it was afoot! Their complaints then were not that there was violence, rather that anybody was calling for an end to violence! And at that time there was absolutely no mention of any of the Ocampo 4, or even any of the Ocampo 6 set. I am not making this up ... it is somewhere on this Jukwaa! So something has changed. If we want truth we have to start from the beginning and track the process all through. What changed, when, why, who was involved and how? These are not questions people want asked when they have a made-up end in their mind that they want to see perfected in reality. But some of us want to know the truth, and we do not care who is found villain in the process of unfolding the truth. So I man say, lets start from the beginning and not shy from any of it. As regards your first question I think they did…why? 1. Ruto/Sang…Is it a coincidence clashes in the RV began at the same time as the clamour for multipartysm? I don’t think so...Moi knew how to manipulate state resources for political gain. As we can see today Ruto learnt from the ‘best’… Ocampo’s claim that the network was as organized as he portrayed it may seem over speculative but I cannot dismiss it after all the mysterious deaths associated with the Ouko saga & the tendency to underestimate Moi’s intellect, organization & ruthlessness .Sangs role as the conduit for hate speech & code disseminator is plausible as well…AbdulMotes thread title & its contributors show the influence of the vernacular stations. 2. Uhuru/Muthaura…Their link to Mungiki at this point (especially Uhuru) looks obvious…the Mungiki going to the RV (As well as Nairobi slums) to stop the violence against their kinsmen and escalate the conflict seems rather obvious as well…at least in social cirles.Its not outrageous to imagine what Ocampo alleges actually took place especially when the government seems to be doing everything to discredit the ICC/Ocampo. Your second point is in the Jukwaa archives and there for all to see…what changed? In one answer POLITICS…The reality is our politics has deteriorated to the point where the culpability is not only on the O4 but to virtually all of us…the PEV was triggered by Kibaki’s civilian coup but arguments can be made that the Mungiki or whoever could not just sit back & watch their cousins slaughtered, however macabre it’s the reality. The truth will come out & hopefully the entire trial will be seen for what it is a referendum on our politics…hopefully we will have learnt very valuable lessons….
|
|
|
Post by nowayhaha on Mar 17, 2012 9:22:43 GMT 3
KK , Its such type of statements/remarks especially from Raila and his followers which led to the violence witnessed in 2008, do you have any evidence that Raila or Kibaki orchestrated a violent coup, a matter of fact who amongst the 2 came to power due to a violent coup remember No Raila No Peace call by the lieutenants ? Everyone in the world knows this .....who is everyone in the world ? Ruto , Balala and now Mudavadi........ or is it Midiwo , Orengo amd the likes of kajwang -ODM is Raila's party Honestly its such type of attitudes which led to the P.E.V. If Raila doesnt become the president then Kenya is finished . Raila should sell his policies on how how he will make Kenya a better place or in that matter improve Kenya from it social , political , economical position e.t.c. and his supporters should use this opportunity to sell his policies and convince the unbelievers into accepting a Raila presidency due to its benefits. Else we find ourselves in 2012 5 years latter in the same scenario as 2007 ...Kibaki betrayed Raila on M.O.U - Kibaki " stole elections from Raila in 2012 - Kenya should burn . Nowayhaha, You can lie yourself to sleep and that's fine but you will not take us all with you. Kibaki was fully in charge of the the defunct ECK after arbitrarily appointing ECK commissioners. Why do you think he made those unilateral appointments? He was fully in charge of the security apparatus. Who whisked away Kivuitu to secretly announce the cooked electoral results? When Justice Kriegler says that electoral irregularities messed up so much that it was difficult to conclude who won, who do you think benefitted on that score? Do you need more evidence of how the civilian coup was engineered? Kibaki had the constitutional mandate to act like a statesman/leader and he fell short. It is on his watch that broken promises and deals led to the kind of mistrust and wanton destruction that took place. Like it or not that is his report card for the first 5 years of his presidency. The ratcheting up of political temperatures by his erstwhile supporters has also gone on under his watch. How has he tried to reign them in? By allowing Ruto to ride on the presidential land rover? Play with fire at your own risk. Freedom and dignity are so valuable that throughout human history anyone who tried to limit them eventually got crushed by their might. Ebarasi, Here is a member of the former Pentagon and former deputy leader of ODM saying as it is.The truth is as also noted by some members is Raila became the premier largely to the P.E.V. and if there was no P.E.V. Raila would have come the official Opposition leader “Raila does not believe in anything that does not favour him as he rides on rigged polls and unconstitutional means to leadership,” he said. “It is the violence that rocked the country that transformed Raila from a presidential election loser to a Prime Minister and a co-principal.” www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Why+Raila+lost+his+cool+in+Hague+debate+/-/1064/1367960/-/item/2/-/lhin62z/-/index.html
|
|