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Post by topnotch on Mar 24, 2012 14:07:33 GMT 3
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Post by kasuku on Mar 24, 2012 14:54:00 GMT 3
Off Topic!
But I have a question to all here Internet Experts;
Is there a way of Identifying Jukwaa members by linking them to another website where from they probably could be identify through their IPS numbers?
Am asking because some links like above, allegedly having copies of top secret docs seem unreal
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Post by roughrider on Mar 24, 2012 14:54:32 GMT 3
Very interesting and if accurate, revealing. It would appear that people are already eating... and, clearly, leaking documents is not a preserve of Mr. Itumbi. If correct - these offer insight into planning, thinking and financing systems. I am curious to observe; if those who felt that the alleged UK document was genuine will now see this one as forged. It will say something about human nature. |
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Post by roughrider on Mar 24, 2012 15:02:55 GMT 3
Off Topic! But I have a question to all here Internet Experts; Is there a way of Identifying Jukwaa members by linking them to another website where from they probably could be identify through their IPS numbers? Am asking because some links like above, allegedly having copies of top secret docs seem unreal You can get people's IP numbers. But it does not tell you who they are. It might tell you what city they are in. In my view, the real danger is if there is a program (or virus) attached to the website that harvests your details (username, passwords e.t.c). The only other way is for the internet service provider to give these details. |
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Post by amadain on Mar 24, 2012 15:05:40 GMT 3
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Post by roughrider on Mar 24, 2012 15:12:36 GMT 3
Thanks Amadain;In one of those documents, Mutahi Ngunyi is being paid for some work done. It would be helpful if some of these so called 'political analysts' declared their interests. Now we can understand his colourful 'analyses' on TV.
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Post by topnotch on Mar 24, 2012 15:21:58 GMT 3
In the First document, 27/1/2012, Kiambu county UK peace Rally ( MPs allowances) KShs.5,825,000/-
So it's true UK pays MPs to attend peace/prayer rallies.
From these docs, we get a glimpse of the power of the fabled Kenyatta wealth, and how media, politicians and TV political analysts are bought.
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Post by topnotch on Mar 24, 2012 15:46:31 GMT 3
Thanks Amadain;In one of those documents, Mutahi Ngunyi is being paid for some work done. It would be helpful if some of these so called 'political analysts' declared their interests. Now we can understand his colourful 'analyses' on TV. Mutahi Ngunyi got KShs.440,000/- while Itumbi got KShs. 20,000/- on the same day. |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 24, 2012 16:22:00 GMT 3
Parallels....oh parallels!!!
The British papers were a bunch of fakes and we have it on authority that spelling mistakes is a key element of a forgery.
Now the Uhuru dossier leaked should be deemed a fake as it has just too many spelling and 'grammatical' errors to be genuine ;D
Just how do you let through things like "Perdiem for 5 staffs" or "2 tracks with sound system" when it should have been "2 Trucks..." or even something we know is not correct - "Porta Loose". There is not even the shrubbing, i.e. mixing up of R and L in the papers as was the case in the British Dossier?
The know it alls of what is fake should easily rank these documents alongside the UK 'fake' dossier!
Seriuosly though, there is nothing spectacular about these papers and are probably genuine notwithstanding the glaring errors I point out above. It is nothing different to the UK dossier as institutions (including political ones) have all sorts of concept papers floating about and there is nothing wrong with ideas and budgets being put on paper. The legal arguments in fact are quite interesting.....all I can say!
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Post by topnotch on Mar 24, 2012 16:28:38 GMT 3
Parallels....oh parallels!!! The British papers were a bunch of fakes and we have it on authority that spelling mistakes is a key element of a forgery. Now the Uhuru dossier leaked should be deemed a fake as it has just too many spelling and 'grammatical' errors to be genuine ;D Just how do you let through things like "Perdiem for 5 staffs" or "2 tracks with sound system" when it should have been "2 Trucks..." or even something we know is not correct - "Porta Loose". There is not even the shrubbing, i.e. mixing up of R and L in the papers as was the case in the British Dossier? The know it alls of what is fake should easily rank these documents alongside the UK 'fake' dossier! Seriuosly though, there is nothing spectacular about these papers and are probably genuine notwithstanding the glaring errors I point out above. It is nothing different to the UK dossier as institutions (including political ones) have all sorts of concept papers floating about and there is nothing wrong with ideas and budgets being put on paper. The legal arguments in fact are quite interesting.....all I can say! Kamale Are you saying the British papers were fakes? Yes or No. |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 24, 2012 16:50:32 GMT 3
Parallels....oh parallels!!! The British papers were a bunch of fakes and we have it on authority that spelling mistakes is a key element of a forgery. Now the Uhuru dossier leaked should be deemed a fake as it has just too many spelling and 'grammatical' errors to be genuine ;D Just how do you let through things like "Perdiem for 5 staffs" or "2 tracks with sound system" when it should have been "2 Trucks..." or even something we know is not correct - "Porta Loose". There is not even the shrubbing, i.e. mixing up of R and L in the papers as was the case in the British Dossier? The know it alls of what is fake should easily rank these documents alongside the UK 'fake' dossier! Seriuosly though, there is nothing spectacular about these papers and are probably genuine notwithstanding the glaring errors I point out above. It is nothing different to the UK dossier as institutions (including political ones) have all sorts of concept papers floating about and there is nothing wrong with ideas and budgets being put on paper. The legal arguments in fact are quite interesting.....all I can say! Kamale Are you saying the British papers were fakes? Yes or No. Topnotch Do you know how to read? Yes or No |
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 24, 2012 17:01:07 GMT 3
Parallels....oh parallels!!! The British papers were a bunch of fakes and we have it on authority that spelling mistakes is a key element of a forgery. Now the Uhuru dossier leaked should be deemed a fake as it has just too many spelling and 'grammatical' errors to be genuine ;D Just how do you let through things like "Perdiem for 5 staffs" or "2 tracks with sound system" when it should have been "2 Trucks..." or even something we know is not correct - "Porta Loose". There is not even the shrubbing, i.e. mixing up of R and L in the papers as was the case in the British Dossier? The know it alls of what is fake should easily rank these documents alongside the UK 'fake' dossier! Seriuosly though, there is nothing spectacular about these papers and are probably genuine notwithstanding the glaring errors I point out above. It is nothing different to the UK dossier as institutions (including political ones) have all sorts of concept papers floating about and there is nothing wrong with ideas and budgets being put on paper. The legal arguments in fact are quite interesting.....all I can say! Ndugu Kamalet: A white British diplomant, born and raised in England, with a whole bunch of people to check letters before they are released, is unlikley to write "in right of" instead of "in light of". On the other hand, a person buying MPs and sodas and mandazis for crowds in Kenya is likely to do so. I am astonished that you seem to think errors or spelling and grammar have the same weight regardless of their source. |
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 24, 2012 19:19:49 GMT 3
Parallels....oh parallels!!! The British papers were a bunch of fakes and we have it on authority that spelling mistakes is a key element of a forgery. Now the Uhuru dossier leaked should be deemed a fake as it has just too many spelling and 'grammatical' errors to be genuine ;D Just how do you let through things like "Perdiem for 5 staffs" or "2 tracks with sound system" when it should have been "2 Trucks..." or even something we know is not correct - "Porta Loose". There is not even the shrubbing, i.e. mixing up of R and L in the papers as was the case in the British Dossier? The know it alls of what is fake should easily rank these documents alongside the UK 'fake' dossier! Seriuosly though, there is nothing spectacular about these papers and are probably genuine notwithstanding the glaring errors I point out above. It is nothing different to the UK dossier as institutions (including political ones) have all sorts of concept papers floating about and there is nothing wrong with ideas and budgets being put on paper. The legal arguments in fact are quite interesting.....all I can say! Ndugu Kamalet: A white British diplomant, born and raised in England, with a whole bunch of people to check letters before they are released, is unlikley to write "in right of" instead of "in light of". On the other hand, a person buying MPs and sodas and mandazis for crowds in Kenya is likely to do so. I am astonished that you seem to think errors or spelling and grammar have the same weight regardless of their source. Couldn't have said it better! you nailed it.. |
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Post by nereah on Mar 24, 2012 19:58:49 GMT 3
as much as this is good read and exposes the ngunyis and itumbis not forgetting the corrupt media, i fear that these leaks, if indeed factual,portend a dangerous precedence that must not be encouraged.
i don't mind this leaks being consumed by the respective war rooms of competing political forces but mind greatly if they are shared with the public.
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Post by senoir on Mar 24, 2012 20:00:24 GMT 3
It is very hard to identify individuals using their ips. if you get their ip address your old be able to identify the city,you will need to go the the internet service provider in that local area who can link the ip address to the business or home address that was using the ip address at that time. Ips are dynamic and expire after a certain time if idle. It gets a little tricky if it is a mobile device as this goes though different cells. The ISP can match the ip address to the Mac address of the device used and from here try to link it to the person who bought the device if they can access this information. Not an easy task but can be done and is usually done on a daily basis .
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Post by nereah on Mar 25, 2012 10:28:22 GMT 3
contrary to what some of my respectable colleagues in jukwaa are stating here, internet and online does no longer guarantee the anonymity.
having been a victim of cyber criminals, i have taken great interest in this complex world and can confidently say that you are fooling yourself if you think you wont/cant be busted with anonymous moniker or phony ip address.
remind me of that fool who nicked my gadget in a subway station but stupid enough to continue thrusting his finger prints on the pad.the rest is history.
food for thought: did you know that such is the advancement in the cyber technology that you can now hire experts to clean it of anything negative posted online about you?..... be it pictorial,graphics or textual especially those retrievable by search engine?
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Post by deyiengs on Mar 25, 2012 12:10:48 GMT 3
Kamale Are you saying the British papers were fakes? Yes or No. Do you really expect a YES or NO answer from Kamale? There are certain things that are left alone. Your guess is as good as mine |
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 25, 2012 15:21:59 GMT 3
Thanks Amadain;In one of those documents, Mutahi Ngunyi is being paid for some work done. It would be helpful if some of these so called 'political analysts' declared their interests. Now we can understand his colourful 'analyses' on TV.[/ Oh Mutahi Ngunyi, where did it all go wrong! Tell me this is a bad dream I will wake up from, O Roughrider!------------ I was checking Ngunyi on the bench with Jeff, and wondering why he had promoted himself to the rank of prophesy, an oracle spewing truths which can be exchanged for hard cash or mortages! The idea is, in social science outside the mathematics of the laboratories and their controlled conditions, predictions must be caveated. So when a social scientists starts his 'you can take that to the bank' proclamations, then you know he is into theatrics, a comedian playing to a gallery; a clown in his element. My question was, and I have since discussed this privately with others who are in the business of consultations: why has Mutahi Ngunyi decided to make a public fool of himself to his contemporaries [--the delicacies of caveats are of course lost to non-insiders of the trade]. My suspicions was, knowing how hard Mutahi worked at his reputation for years, that he must have been offered the deal of a life-time. To throw away that reputation with such nonchalance, and put up his consultation house up to ridicule, such that external organizations who were wont to use his services will now think twice, and his group likely suffer massive financial decline, the man had to have ALL his bases covered. This was the hypothesis I was trying to discuss. Mutahi Ngunyi knows that one of the reasons states became secular, was because the clergy who communicated directly with God in heaven and told futures, were found out to be conmen. Just like the old shamans of Africa. Armies that trusted on their divine pronouncements, were wiped out in the battlefield. So when a man of Mutahi's intelligence and purpoted lucidity in thinking becomes a High Priest, you want to think about it some more about this regression. --The sudden re-appearance of a long lost trait is also called atavism. Now, and I still reckon these leaks could be fakes, I will be bold enough to think it is UK's money which has turned Mutahi into a comedian. It is not us, viewers and listeners, who can take his musings to the bank, No, it is Mutahi himself who has taken them to the bank as collaterals, and gotten handsome cash. Enough to compensate for his ruined reputation for the rest of his life! Many people here will remember the story of Mburu Waweru, once of citizen radio. Mburu became the superstar of commentary in his re-invention of the old 'hivyo ndivyo ilivyo', and was a listening must for the whole country. Then something happened [which since then has been revealed], and the public discovered outright he had become fake. His voice died, though of course he tried to come back after purgatory. And that too, was the story of Hillary N'gweno whe he did his deal with Moi. It will be difficult to believe, but when you make reputation on independence of mind, then you can not loose that independence and still have the public treat you the same respectful way. And yes, folks, there is a huge market out there for independent analysis and opinion, even if it works out to be wrong. But yes, it does not pay as well as being a professional intellectual prostitute. I still hope Mutahi is not on the take. Because otherwise, every time he opens his mouth to oraculize, then the public know he has first sucked the contents of Uhuru Kenyattas colon, and is regurgating them in public. Kamalet or Njugunahjohn, let me ask you a honest question. On this retirement of Martha Karua, have you heard a rumour in gikuyu that, elsewhere, **** used a gikuyu sentence which can be translated as: That one is an old prostitute, and you know one cannot market those ones when fresh things are around! She will soon retire.. (May be my gikuyu correspondents are lying to me --they just want to discredit him some more!)  |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 25, 2012 21:13:15 GMT 3
Parallels....oh parallels!!! The British papers were a bunch of fakes and we have it on authority that spelling mistakes is a key element of a forgery. Now the Uhuru dossier leaked should be deemed a fake as it has just too many spelling and 'grammatical' errors to be genuine ;D Just how do you let through things like "Perdiem for 5 staffs" or "2 tracks with sound system" when it should have been "2 Trucks..." or even something we know is not correct - "Porta Loose". There is not even the shrubbing, i.e. mixing up of R and L in the papers as was the case in the British Dossier? The know it alls of what is fake should easily rank these documents alongside the UK 'fake' dossier! Seriuosly though, there is nothing spectacular about these papers and are probably genuine notwithstanding the glaring errors I point out above. It is nothing different to the UK dossier as institutions (including political ones) have all sorts of concept papers floating about and there is nothing wrong with ideas and budgets being put on paper. The legal arguments in fact are quite interesting.....all I can say! Ndugu Kamalet: A white British diplomant, born and raised in England, with a whole bunch of people to check letters before they are released, is unlikley to write "in right of" instead of "in light of". On the other hand, a person buying MPs and sodas and mandazis for crowds in Kenya is likely to do so. I am astonished that you seem to think errors or spelling and grammar have the same weight regardless of their source. Sadly that is what I call an inferiority complex...... |
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Post by amadain on Mar 26, 2012 7:25:04 GMT 3
Ndugu Kamalet: A white British diplomant, born and raised in England, with a whole bunch of people to check letters before they are released, is unlikley to write "in right of" instead of "in light of". etc. etc. etc. Sadly that is what I call an inferiority complex...... He does not have an inferiority complex - it is a logical assumption. What if a white MI6 agent uttered the same sentence? Would you accuse that white British man of having an inferiority complex? In this context, the L and the R being mixed up is a sure sign of Kenyan authorship. English is my first and only language and I can tell you that I have never encountered this mixup until I visited Kenya and Uganda. I found it to be an interesting quirky language fact - the same as Germans not being able to pronounce the word squirrel (a great test to weed out Nazi infiltrators during WWII as the story goes!)
It's also not even possible for it to be a typo since the L and R buttons are located far from each other on the keyboard. |
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Post by roughrider on Mar 26, 2012 10:21:10 GMT 3
Thanks Amadain;In one of those documents, Mutahi Ngunyi is being paid for some work done. It would be helpful if some of these so called 'political analysts' declared their interests. Now we can understand his colourful 'analyses' on TV.[/ Oh Mutahi Ngunyi, where did it all go wrong! Tell me this is a bad dream I will wake up from, O Roughrider!------------ I was checking Ngunyi on the bench with Jeff, and wondering why he had promoted himself to the rank of prophesy, an oracle spewing truths which can be exchanged for hard cash or mortages! The idea is, in social science outside the mathematics of the laboratories and their controlled conditions, predictions must be caveated. So when a social scientists starts his 'you can take that to the bank' proclamations, then you know he is into theatrics, a comedian playing to a gallery; a clown in his element...... Jakaswanga; Ngunyi, I am told, is available for hire to whoever can pay more. This is ok except gullible news media should insist on full disclosure so that the public can interpret his views accordingly. This type of propaganda is insidious. You parade an 'authority' and people want to be persuaded because an expert has has spoken. But alas the expert is a fake deep in the pockets of politicians. But it is easy to see through Ngunyi. Whenever he was not being 'oiled', he engaged in veiled attacks at the 'Kikuyu establishment', liberally talking about how the sons of the mau mau were screwed. Then he would be called aside and the tirades would stop. You may recall that Mr. Ngunyi had a significant problem - in fact a fraud case - in which he and others were accused of fraudulently obtaining funds from the Ford Foundation. Ngunyi joins a long list including Kwendo Opanga who lost his mojo after it was shown that he was on Kanu payroll, while posing as an independent analyst. Lately he has resurfaced as a columnist for the Sunday Nation. |
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Post by roughrider on Mar 26, 2012 10:29:14 GMT 3
It's also not even possible for it to be a typo since the L and R buttons are located far from each other on the keyboard. Precisely, L is 5 keys to the right of R and one row below in a QWERTY keyboard. The real inferiority complex lies in the need to defend perceived tribal interests at all costs. Kamale has no interest in then truth of this matter. His concern is simply that Uhuru Kenyatta, who is defending charges of mass murder, comes from Kiambu and is the current King of his tribe. Anything to save him. You must understand this motivation even as you expend energy trying to convince him with reason. |
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 26, 2012 12:35:48 GMT 3
This is fake and the same can be manufactured for Railas team . If only we could question the presidential hopefuls on issues and not manufacturing fake documents to try and discredit them .
How I hope we would have presidential debates like the ones in the U.S. and have Ruto , Uhuru Mudavadi ,Karua and Raila debate face to face and use the venue to sell their vision and Manifesto . I remember Raila had requested one against Kibaki in 2007 towards the general elections . One this year would be helpful for the country to get to see how the future Kenyan President would be able handle issues.
The Kutupiana maneno na majina in rallies is not helping and a debate forum would be of aid as debaters would be able to answer and clear things out if brought forward.
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Mar 26, 2012 14:40:59 GMT 3
I found these documents intriguing. Some of the people mentioned are well known civil society figures here in Nairobi.
Interesting...
Onyango Oloo
Nairobi, Kenya
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 26, 2012 14:48:41 GMT 3
Ndugu Kamalet: A white British diplomant, born and raised in England, with a whole bunch of people to check letters before they are released, is unlikley to write "in right of" instead of "in light of". etc. etc. etc. Sadly that is what I call an inferiority complex...... He does not have an inferiority complex - it is a logical assumption. What if a white MI6 agent uttered the same sentence? Would you accuse that white British man of having an inferiority complex? In this context, the L and the R being mixed up is a sure sign of Kenyan authorship. English is my first and only language and I can tell you that I have never encountered this mixup until I visited Kenya and Uganda. I found it to be an interesting quirky language fact - the same as Germans not being able to pronounce the word squirrel (a great test to weed out Nazi infiltrators during WWII as the story goes!)
It's also not even possible for it to be a typo since the L and R buttons are located far from each other on the keyboard. A "better" explanation that kamalet's has already been provided. There was this opinion piece in our leading daily : "When the British Government dismisses the highly sensitive secret reports leaked and tabled in Kenya’s Parliament as fakes for the simple reason that they have grammatical and spelling errors, they are being too smart by half. All scanned documents acquire such errors, depending on the quality of the scanning"www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Foreign+powers+are+preparing+Kenya+for+a+war+economy/-/440808/1366348/-/i5prhg/-/index.htmlIn addition to the errors already mention, some of the phrases were very interesting and of the type that flourish in the Kenyan media but are very unlikely elsewhere---e.g. "ascending to State House". |
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