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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 26, 2012 23:44:59 GMT 3
mzee, www.the-star.co.ke/national/national/81891-ncic-probes-3-kikuyu-musiciansThe star story you have posted tells us how powerful the blogging world has become. The capacity of blogs to influence mainstream media and bring attention to issues that are important is quite incredible. That is why it is critical to keep these websites sane with sensible discussions. Many websites are themselves hateful, tribal cesspools that just turns reasonable people off. They have a few characters who spend their entire living time peddling hatred and stupidity and they take great pride in their "body of work". Jukwaa is a cut above many of those even though we have our own issues to deal with. At least you don't have to hide in the washroom to read Jukwaa afraid that your sanity may be questioned like may be the case if you are caught perusing some of those websites. I was however taken aback when I read the star story to see the first post in the response section simply took a post we made here earlier about the tiresome moral equivalency argument xeroxed it and then added some other comments. Well as long as people get the message we are fine.
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Post by mzee on Jun 27, 2012 0:52:21 GMT 3
Adongo, You are right, logs will soon put the mainstream media out of work. By the way, the first sentence in the first post in the response section is actually taken from my response to you in this very thread. Its all fine and I wont complain.
By the way Uhuru has not condemned these musicians.
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Post by Fahari on Jun 27, 2012 2:07:57 GMT 3
Fahari, if you can't beat the omerta, Google it. Here's a link to a translation found online with a swift Google search followed by the "full"translation as seen on the link. May the Tractor plough on ;-) : www.africambiance.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8372&sid=508d0c66b60044f5636a3bbb394ecae1&view=printAuthor: Wuod Kwatch [ Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:03 pm ] Post subject: Re: The Song That Landed Him in The Slammer tutulu Here is the translation - finally oh yes At this time that I am speaking to you Please listen to me People of the lake Now, I am speaking to all of you,, the wild game in the wilderness , to the family of birds , those of the fish family in the water, and to the creatures which crawl on their bellies. I want to tell you this Anything man has built using his hands, be it a ship, an airplane, a house, a motor bike, in the end it will cease to function and break down. That’s its destiny. And what Jehovah God has created, be it man, wild game, a flying creature, a creature in the water, a human being, in the end it will die. There is a type of wild animal created to resemble man, but arent human at all. One of them is the baboon, and then we have others like the chimpanzee, monkeys that look like amazingly like human beings. But they are not human beings at all. Now let me address baboons Baboons are baboons They may be be domesticated baboons, they may be wild baboons, but it doesn’t matter, they still retain their inbred ape-like heritage. You may cook for 'him', you may give 'him' ripe bananas and papaya fuit, but when you are serving the food or fruits, the baboon will try to snatch it by force, and claim it. And as you are feeding it, the baboon looks you straight in the eye, so it can take more food, some for later. And when the baboon sees that you want to share the food with another being, it will instantly want to kill you. So a baboon is a baboon. And with the baboons, there is never a time when the well being and personal wealth/belongings of another being makes 'him' content with his. But some of these baboons we have helped , were in the house of monitor lizard and yet others were in the place of healing (visiting with healers) - ……………….note how DO Misiani takes the rather long pause at 2.51min mark as he deeplyi contemplates his message about these ungrateful baboon ingrates. DO Misiani continues…… And then the baboon left his habitat, and came to live with us, amidst midst of our dogs and sheep. and it messed us up. We had helped the monkeys when the baboons were busy killing them, You now hear the monkey calling calling his wife 'Akelo, Akelo, pick up the basket' and the wife demures and replies 'no I wont'. One day I was strolling in the wild bushes I met a baboon who had been mercilessly beaten up by the monkeys. He had fractured neck and limbs. He was left for dead, and like a good samaritan I took him to hospital and then to my place and nursed him to health and gave him place to stay. In return I asked the baboon to look after my homestead. The baboon was like a baby who could not even clean up after themselves for personal hygiene purposes. But after a while the baboon summoned his 'people' (fellow baboons, i.e) who lived in the wild, who were voiceless and powerless, and they now run roughshod over my in my homestead! They are eating up my bananas and other fruits recklessly. And when the baboons see me its war. They shout to each other - ooh ohh ohh. Baboons are baboons!!!. They have now taken over the land. Its like they have got independence and freedom they never had. They can now talk and say anything they want (talk smack he he he). Man, those past years, when we were running around, looking for these fruits, where were these baboons? Where were they? As I am talking to you now, I am a 'small' man who cant help much, and i dont have the ability to do much. I am not respected that much. I thought I was helping out the people and the land when I helped out the baboon, but I ended up spoiling for people. But let me tell you, fish spawn only fish, and animal is an animal and gives birth to the same animal. I never heard of a cow cross breeding with donkey, or a goat with a sheep, or a dog with a pig or a buffalo with rhino. A baboon is a baboon. Baboons do not give birth to a monkey. (He then gives examples of different animals and birds and fish that only spawns the same breed) DO Misiani then concludes by saying that although he is not respected nor wanted and does not matter in the big scheme of things, he will continue talking to us. He says he talks a lot and sings a lot of songs without meaning. He says you may disrespect his message, but he is the one who helps the land, and the Tractor still ploughs the land. So we are O.K he says. Then he goes into the 'sha sha sha' tail end of the song. This video is a masterpiece, extremely well done. It shows the various animals he is referring to as he sings/talks, it captures his nuanced emotion as he narrates this master piece. The animals obviously are a metaphor for the greedy land grabbers who are still in power today in Kenya. How is it that the son of the first president and his family owns land the size of the province where I come from, in which 4-5 MILLION HUMAN BEINGS, and wild life find sustenance? How can one family of less than 100 people own that much land? Unfathomable greed indeed. But as DO Misiani says, all that is man made will perish! The tractor reference in the last portion of the song is obvious to any Kenyan with two brain cells wired together. Misiani says that the land - our country, is O.K because the tractor still ploughs. What a song. I attended many live concerts by DO Misiani. I never recognized his genius till I left the country and started parsing his lyrics. He is a master story teller, a satirist with searing wit, and he speaks in unfathomable parables and metaphors in a lot of cases. There are some animals he mentioned in luo that I am unable to 'translate' into English Soko mutwe? Mr B6K Where have you been? Thanks a million I owe you a bottle of your favourite drink!! That omerta was driving me crazy since I had gotten a translation way back when it was fashionable to castigate "the house that mumbi built" but now that its deemed prudent to "woo the house" we pretend we never heard the song nor understood it meaning. Did you notice the deathly silence after you published the translation? No condemnation, some justification, but mainly mute. This reminds of a time in school years ago when we were trying to wrap our young minds around a new word/ concept:, bigotry. The act of obstinately or intolerantly being devoted to opinions and prejudices; especially with regards to treating the members of a race or ethnic group, with hatred and intolerance. Our class assignment was to identify bigots and justify our choices, we really had a hard time coming up with a list then, today, it would have been a piece of cake drawing from this particular thread.
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 27, 2012 2:47:30 GMT 3
Fahari: There is no "deathly silence". Some of us are simply tired of people playing word-games when they know exactly what the issue is, what is going on, and how serious the matter is.
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Post by Fahari on Jun 27, 2012 2:49:10 GMT 3
The hypocrisy on jukwaa knows no bounds apparently its perfectly alright to suggest that kikuyus are baboons as was done on the "bim en bim" number and strangely not a word of condemnation has come from those who were pouring fire and brimstone on the kikuyu musicians. I have the feeling that they wish Jakswanga would take a long vacation and we never get a full translation and unfortunately my lakeside friends have taken a vow of omerta on this one tsk tsk The bottom line is that there are no innocents in kenya!! Fahari,The omerta may only be restricted to the lake people outside the homeland. It is a diaspora affliction, where Nairobi too counts as diaspora. In Luoland Nyanza, those of us who are benga and ahangla literati, and connoisseurs of the poetic cannons in dholuo, discuss every facet of these cultural productions without no go areas. Just as you would write a paper on the image of the german in18th century russian literature: the case of Tolstoy's war and peace, and defend your conclusions it in a academic seminar; so too in Nyanza Okello Jamach Pieretindo would do the image of gikuyus in Luo popular music, the case of bim en bim by maestro Owino Misiani. And defend his conclusions before a panel of manambas, other literati, fishermen, and market women. Even the possibilities of covert hate he would handle. No holes barred. (My own works were adults only as you would guess: (eg) the sianda madongo fetishism in luo-benga: a study of the lyrics of Okatch Biggy. Okello concluded [1] Owino in this song, taking the kenyan setting, is puritanical in consciousness. {can elaborate on request}. To the Tanzanian Luo however, unencumbered by the pre-occupations of the Kenyan Luo, this song has other connotations. So when Owino was being harassed our side of the border, they asked: so you Kenyans think you have the MONOPOLY of interpretations whenever the word Lake-people is mentioned in any song? [2]This is the benga equivalent of Animal Farm by george orwell, you silly Kenyans, a masterpiece in allegory and oral story telling with popular musical accompaniment. Kenyan politics is merely one prism. Tanzanian politics another. Local luo politics another. And then, that it is an allegory concerning contradictions only within Luo society itself as a whole, is beyond the scope of this condemnation! Suddenly what had looked a clear case of ethnic slur against kikuyus, bim en bim, appeared so multi-faceted that, to be high brow about it, the limited comprador consciousness which thinks the only interpretation is that of their class, revealed its complete unpreparedness to engage in a bit of thought out dialogue. Owino, to be fair said: kawe kaka wiyi iwuon lokoni godo. An bende awere kaka chunya okelona godo. An en an, to in in in! Interpret it according to your own mind. I sang it according to how my heart brought it. I is me, you are you! I thought the song had an obvious anti-gikuyu undertone, but I still argued for its place in the classics of witty benga. And I forced my luo students to write papers on it and discuss with the non luos. An eye-opener. Mr JakaswangaI agree with you, there are no innocents in kenya, that's a reality we have to accept. I don't have a problem with insulting lyrics every group of people have their share of prejudices, what I have a problem with is the willful blindness to our own faults while loudly pontificating about our neighbours faults. However, I cannot help but note that you too were "omertized" to a certain extent. If it wasn't for B6k's link which blew it wide open, the secret would have been permanently sealed .........but you can redeem yourself by providing a translation to the second song. OK,I will hand it to you though, you provided the footage so you are partially redeemed. Thank you !
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 27, 2012 3:15:37 GMT 3
Fahari: This thread is only 2 days old. The fact that not everything you would like to read has been posted here within 2 days need not lead to the conclusion that there is a code of silence.
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Post by einstein on Jun 27, 2012 4:34:07 GMT 3
Jeeeez, can't people get to be serious for once?! No wonder we will keep killing each other till no Kenyan Nation will be left standing!!
That the so called Kenyan intellectuals can adamantly choose to remain blind to what ails the Kenyan Nation is unfathomable!! People cannot be giving excuses for present mistakes for past mistakes to justify their own in-built and inherent chauvinism! This is not acceptable, at least not to me!!
Some posts here have got nothing to do with democracy viz-a-viz art but rather a tit for tat mentality about past and already punished crimes. It is simply sickening and I mean it!!
No one is going to solve hate-speech through the double jeopardy law or some theoretical class lectures on some 'artistic' folklore presented to students who cannot even relate the issues to any existing reality in life at the time of the presentation of such a folklore!
Either we are going to have a board that is above board, or we simply want to be like them all boards all over www, discussing everything about everything but with no solutions aka talk shop!
That is not the Jukwaa I am a member of. Jukwaa cannot just be debating for the sake of killing time. No way, Most Jukwaaists have better things to do daily than just hang around the Jukwaa board.
OO, please help!!
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Post by mank on Jun 27, 2012 7:59:51 GMT 3
Well said! I could not master the language fast enough but had the same observation pressing me. mank,
I think the answer to jakaswanga's dilemma of what to do with "kill" and "ask god to forgive them" message is rather simple. Just kill the offending rascals then ask god to forgive them so they can go to heaven. Case closed. What is more fair than that. You send them to heaven instead of sending them to hell which is where they would go since they are not even circumcised in the first place. They should be happy with that. They are going to heaven not to hell. They should be thrilled. Why NOT?
So if UHURU could only pray also for his victims then the 7 kids roasted alive in their house in Naivasha would be safely in heaven and we wouldn't be having this discussion and others who are having moral dilemma as to whether to condemn the hate mongers or not would be at peace with themselves. Easy solution, isn't it?That's your own extention Adongo. Its not implied by the song.
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Post by b6k on Jun 27, 2012 9:16:30 GMT 3
Be that as it may, Jakaswanga, the fact remains it is a work of hate as witty as it may seem. Back in my university days I did take an English course in which we did nothing but watch movies & then write about them. Usually the old black & white classics (Casablanca et al.). We would then analyze them as the course was rightfully called, Motion Picrture as Literature. So let's analyze your classic benga tune. Like Animal Farm you have to analyze it with the time in history when it was written in mind. As the Luo nation was reeling from the effects of Kibaki's trashing of the MOU when it was released in 2003, it's target is crystal clear. The monkeys who were busy killing off baboons before they were ushered into power with the assistance of the ploughing tractor are equally knowable if the historical context is kept in mind. Dehumanizing the "enemy" is a common phenomena in times of conflict. That's why you get the "bad guys" in different wars being referred to as the Jerry's (or the Huns), Gooks, Ragheads, etc. So when Misiani refers to outsiders as baboons or monkeys, it's clear to the IN group that they, being human, are above the sub-human OUT group (even though they happen to be ruled by them). The main criticism of the UK songs is that they do not even attempt to hide whom they are talking about behind poetry or allegory, & even go as far as using some of UK's quotes within the song. Your breaking down of the one tune going from seeking vengeance & blood to settling for forgiveness seems valid although you must keep in mind not all who listen to tales heed the moral of the story. Unlike Lincoln, I still maintain if Misiani could've been arrested for his song, then the latter day Kikuyu minstrels also deserve some time behind bars. Same government....same crime.... Anyway as the Tractor still ploughs on, let us hope it will bring hope to the land someday ;D b6k,Habari za maziku I say? umepotea sana mpaka nikafikiri wa-al-shabab walipoteya na wewe. [Or you were the one Oloo was saying was having 3 spare handles ;D) This course of viewing images and studying content was a very good one you took. I was trying to do the same with my students using benga content [after being banned from identifying the misogynist content in classical european christian religious paintings.] But you know the school which says when dealing with art, good art, the content of hate itself does not devalue her artistic prowess. This is why Lehni Riefenstahl films glorifying Hitler at times contain rabid and demented anti-jewish hate, but nobody in cinematography doubts their artistic prowess, and technical divinity. [Especially triumph of the will]. And I am sure you are aware of the controversial Robinson Crusoe and his man Friday. A colonial allegory with the vision of the dark native as being a simple soul, that would be lost to civilization without the guiding hand of the benefactor white man. That it is well written and an artistic match is not in doubt. But the content is downright racist. It is a nuance, condemning the content whilst appreciating the technique. That Kenyans have not time for nuance is no reason to throw out the baby with the bathtub. But I get you pretty well. Much so, on the 'dehumanization' as an escalation. One needs a mental block to kill another without motive if one is no psychopath --so they have to be insects --sudan, roaches -rwanda, rodents --nazi germany, baboons -kenya. Before the work! Jakaswanga, alas judging from the places al Shabaab has allegedly hit so far, they will have a tough time getting to me. Indeed your class mirrored that course I took way back in the day. Triumph of the Will? We also analyzed that but in a different class. The Nazis were big on symbolism & imagery. Something Hollywood has caught up to.....but that's a tale for another day. I'm not saying Misiani's song inspired attacks mind you, but the fact that it dehumanizes the other side, & in essence becomes part of the group folklore, it can lay the groundwork for future action....
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Post by b6k on Jun 27, 2012 9:38:24 GMT 3
Fahari, if you can't beat the omerta, Google it. Here's a link to a translation found online with a swift Google search followed by the "full"translation as seen on the link. May the Tractor plough on ;-) : www.africambiance.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8372&sid=508d0c66b60044f5636a3bbb394ecae1&view=printAuthor: Wuod Kwatch [ Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:03 pm ] Post subject: Re: The Song That Landed Him in The Slammer tutulu Here is the translation - finally oh yes At this time that I am speaking to you Please listen to me People of the lake Now, I am speaking to all of you,, the wild game in the wilderness , to the family of birds , those of the fish family in the water, and to the creatures which crawl on their bellies. I want to tell you this Anything man has built using his hands, be it a ship, an airplane, a house, a motor bike, in the end it will cease to function and break down. That’s its destiny. And what Jehovah God has created, be it man, wild game, a flying creature, a creature in the water, a human being, in the end it will die. There is a type of wild animal created to resemble man, but arent human at all. One of them is the baboon, and then we have others like the chimpanzee, monkeys that look like amazingly like human beings. But they are not human beings at all. Now let me address baboons Baboons are baboons They may be be domesticated baboons, they may be wild baboons, but it doesn’t matter, they still retain their inbred ape-like heritage. You may cook for 'him', you may give 'him' ripe bananas and papaya fuit, but when you are serving the food or fruits, the baboon will try to snatch it by force, and claim it. And as you are feeding it, the baboon looks you straight in the eye, so it can take more food, some for later. And when the baboon sees that you want to share the food with another being, it will instantly want to kill you. So a baboon is a baboon. And with the baboons, there is never a time when the well being and personal wealth/belongings of another being makes 'him' content with his. But some of these baboons we have helped , were in the house of monitor lizard and yet others were in the place of healing (visiting with healers) - ……………….note how DO Misiani takes the rather long pause at 2.51min mark as he deeplyi contemplates his message about these ungrateful baboon ingrates. DO Misiani continues…… And then the baboon left his habitat, and came to live with us, amidst midst of our dogs and sheep. and it messed us up. We had helped the monkeys when the baboons were busy killing them, You now hear the monkey calling calling his wife 'Akelo, Akelo, pick up the basket' and the wife demures and replies 'no I wont'. One day I was strolling in the wild bushes I met a baboon who had been mercilessly beaten up by the monkeys. He had fractured neck and limbs. He was left for dead, and like a good samaritan I took him to hospital and then to my place and nursed him to health and gave him place to stay. In return I asked the baboon to look after my homestead. The baboon was like a baby who could not even clean up after themselves for personal hygiene purposes. But after a while the baboon summoned his 'people' (fellow baboons, i.e) who lived in the wild, who were voiceless and powerless, and they now run roughshod over my in my homestead! They are eating up my bananas and other fruits recklessly. And when the baboons see me its war. They shout to each other - ooh ohh ohh. Baboons are baboons!!!. They have now taken over the land. Its like they have got independence and freedom they never had. They can now talk and say anything they want (talk smack he he he). Man, those past years, when we were running around, looking for these fruits, where were these baboons? Where were they? As I am talking to you now, I am a 'small' man who cant help much, and i dont have the ability to do much. I am not respected that much. I thought I was helping out the people and the land when I helped out the baboon, but I ended up spoiling for people. But let me tell you, fish spawn only fish, and animal is an animal and gives birth to the same animal. I never heard of a cow cross breeding with donkey, or a goat with a sheep, or a dog with a pig or a buffalo with rhino. A baboon is a baboon. Baboons do not give birth to a monkey. (He then gives examples of different animals and birds and fish that only spawns the same breed) DO Misiani then concludes by saying that although he is not respected nor wanted and does not matter in the big scheme of things, he will continue talking to us. He says he talks a lot and sings a lot of songs without meaning. He says you may disrespect his message, but he is the one who helps the land, and the Tractor still ploughs the land. So we are O.K he says. Then he goes into the 'sha sha sha' tail end of the song. This video is a masterpiece, extremely well done. It shows the various animals he is referring to as he sings/talks, it captures his nuanced emotion as he narrates this master piece. The animals obviously are a metaphor for the greedy land grabbers who are still in power today in Kenya. How is it that the son of the first president and his family owns land the size of the province where I come from, in which 4-5 MILLION HUMAN BEINGS, and wild life find sustenance? How can one family of less than 100 people own that much land? Unfathomable greed indeed. But as DO Misiani says, all that is man made will perish! The tractor reference in the last portion of the song is obvious to any Kenyan with two brain cells wired together. Misiani says that the land - our country, is O.K because the tractor still ploughs. What a song. I attended many live concerts by DO Misiani. I never recognized his genius till I left the country and started parsing his lyrics. He is a master story teller, a satirist with searing wit, and he speaks in unfathomable parables and metaphors in a lot of cases. There are some animals he mentioned in luo that I am unable to 'translate' into English Soko mutwe? Mr B6K Where have you been? Thanks a million I owe you a bottle of your favourite drink!! That omerta was driving me crazy since I had gotten a translation way back when it was fashionable to castigate "the house that mumbi built" but now that its deemed prudent to "woo the house" we pretend we never heard the song nor understood it meaning. Did you notice the deathly silence after you published the translation? No condemnation, some justification, but mainly mute. This reminds of a time in school years ago when we were trying to wrap our young minds around a new word/ concept:, bigotry. The act of obstinately or intolerantly being devoted to opinions and prejudices; especially with regards to treating the members of a race or ethnic group, with hatred and intolerance. Our class assignment was to identify bigots and justify our choices, we really had a hard time coming up with a list then, today, it would have been a piece of cake drawing from this particular thread. Fahari, LOL! I wonder how you will arrange that favourite drink to land in my inbox. I have been very much around right here on Jukwaa. I just consciously decided to become a "lurker" rather than a contributor for a while. I noted the "deathly silence" which is pretty much the norm on Jukwaa. There is a group here who believe ALL wrongs only emanate from one side on some sort of one way street. Equally, all solutions or reforms can only come from their side of the political spectrum. Nothing could be further from the truth. To borrow from Misiani's symbolism but applying it to these folks, a baboon does not see it's own backside but heartily laughs at it's neighbors. Someone put it very well on another thread. As long as we rely on the current crop of politicians be prepared for nothing but disappointment & heartache. They will continue to play the same old monkey games in a different forest. Just look at how the new constitution is being decimated piece by piece. Let the Tractor sputter along.... If we are ever going to break the cycle of hate we all need to admit we all have short comings & prejudices that naturally come out in our respective works of art & song. Unless we can call them out for what they are, the cycle will only repeat itself when conditions allow. Jakaswanga, I forgot to address you on one point. I did have another handle on Jukwaa. My original handle, Bobby6killer, which for some reason never went active & by now has been swept off the board following OO's spring cleaning. So if you don't hear from b6k, assume I am lurking ;D
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Post by kamalet on Jun 27, 2012 13:24:16 GMT 3
Yes they sing about Uhuru...that is not a verbatim quote from Uhuru? And if the hating is on Raila, is tht wrong considering that even Raila has been public about alleged things that Uhuru does? If the hating on the songs is against a community then we would be on the same page, but the Raila is not equal to a community! kamaletRaila is the foremost politician in the Luo community. He is also the country's Prime Minister. He is not just one individual in the Luo Nation. The songs target not just him but anyone vying for office who comes from that community. Oh we can't be led by people who [luckily still] have their damn foreskins. Please. Stop being a smart alec justifying and therefore promoting these kinds of songs. You aren't convincing anyone except those who see the Kikuyu Nation as the bosses of everyone else. How about you forget about that silly dream. So if we call Kiraitu and Imanyara miraa eating idiots that is equal to an insult on the meru community just because someone thinks they are the foremost politicians in Meru-land? That is how daft your idea of Raila being this or that sounds.
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Post by genius on Jun 27, 2012 14:12:54 GMT 3
kamaletRaila is the foremost politician in the Luo community. He is also the country's Prime Minister. He is not just one individual in the Luo Nation. The songs target not just him but anyone vying for office who comes from that community. Oh we can't be led by people who [luckily still] have their damn foreskins. Please. Stop being a smart alec justifying and therefore promoting these kinds of songs. You aren't convincing anyone except those who see the Kikuyu Nation as the bosses of everyone else. How about you forget about that silly dream. So if we call Kiraitu and Imanyara miraa eating idiots that is equal to an insult on the meru community just because someone thinks they are the foremost politicians in Meru-land? That is how daft your idea of Raila being this or that sounds. Kamale, Yes. Calling Imanyara or Kiraitu miraa-eating idiots is an insult on the Meru communitity because it is an insult based on where they come from. The assumption you are making is that all people from Meru eat miraa. the other generalisation is that all miraa eaters come from Meru (i don't even think that many Merus eat miraa). You're also insinuating that all miraa eaters are idiots. For your own good, I suggest you refrain from such ethnical generalisations and hate-motivated spiteful talk.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 27, 2012 14:19:00 GMT 3
Jeeeez, can't people get to be serious for once?! No wonder we will keep killing each other till no Kenyan Nation will be left standing!! That the so called Kenyan intellectuals can adamantly choose to remain blind to what ails the Kenyan Nation is unfathomable!! People cannot be giving excuses for present mistakes for past mistakes to justify their own in-built and inherent chauvinism! This is not acceptable, at least not to me!! Some posts here have got nothing to do with democracy viz-a-viz art but rather a tit for tat mentality about past and already punished crimes. It is simply sickening and I mean it!! No one is going to solve hate-speech through the double jeopardy law or some theoretical class lectures on some 'artistic' folklore presented to students who cannot even relate the issues to any existing reality in life at the time of the presentation of such a folklore! Either we are going to have a board that is above board, or we simply want to be like them all boards all over www, discussing everything about everything but with no solutions aka talk shop! That is not the Jukwaa I am a member of. Jukwaa cannot just be debating for the sake of killing time. No way, Most Jukwaaists have better things to do daily than just hang around the Jukwaa board. OO, please help!! einstein,The great news is that we have wrestled the hate mongers to the ground. This battle has been won decisively. The little god of the hate mongers was forced to back off from those who mimic his thinking into songs. He was forced to denounce them. The hate mongers are now on everybody's radar. Even the hateful so called prayer meetings are kind of dead. They took their authors nowhere. It is heartening that what was started by a humble blogger, moderateKenyan, has gone viral in almost every website that Kenyans engage in and the condemnation has been universal except for the usual vicious hate mongers in the internet and those quibling with petty moral equivalency excuses for outright hatred with direct links to the still ongoing issues of PEV. Kenyans just don't want to put up with hate mongers any more. They have been put on notice. The political benefits of this kind of foolishness doesn't seem to be very promising. That is progress and we will take it. Let others quible with their little pet obsessions. The nation is moving in the right direction. Very good.
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Post by kamalet on Jun 27, 2012 14:25:10 GMT 3
...and the news if that following the songs by the Muranga artists, violence has started no where and only intellectuals are arguing with themselves. That is how hateful this things it that the ones intended to be influenced by the songs are still milking their cows and picking their tea and coffee when the so called clever ones are killing one another with silly arguments!
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Post by kamalet on Jun 27, 2012 14:41:50 GMT 3
So if we call Kiraitu and Imanyara miraa eating idiots that is equal to an insult on the meru community just because someone thinks they are the foremost politicians in Meru-land? That is how daft your idea of Raila being this or that sounds. Kamale, Yes. Calling Imanyara or Kiraitu miraa-eating idiots is an insult on the Meru communitity because it is an insult based on where they come from. The assumption you are making is that all people from Meru eat miraa. the other generalisation is that all miraa eaters come from Meru (i don't even think that many Merus eat miraa). You're also insinuating that all miraa eaters are idiots. For your own good, I suggest you refrain from such ethnical generalisations and hate-motivated spiteful talk. ...and calling Uhuru a snuff taking mlevi is also an insult to the gikuyu...he being the foremost political leader and candidate for president and suspect at the Hague? very clever!
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Post by genius on Jun 27, 2012 14:50:05 GMT 3
Kamale, Yes. Calling Imanyara or Kiraitu miraa-eating idiots is an insult on the Meru communitity because it is an insult based on where they come from. The assumption you are making is that all people from Meru eat miraa. the other generalisation is that all miraa eaters come from Meru (i don't even think that many Merus eat miraa). You're also insinuating that all miraa eaters are idiots. For your own good, I suggest you refrain from such ethnical generalisations and hate-motivated spiteful talk. ...and calling Uhuru a snuff taking mlevi is also an insult to the gikuyu...he being the foremost political leader and candidate for president and suspect at the Hague? very clever! Calling him a snuff-taking person is an insult to Kikuyus because there exists a misguided stereotype by some people of Kikuyus because of the Mungiki activities. The insinuation here being that Uhuru, by virtue of being a Kikuyu is a member of Mungiki hence a snuff-taker (very wrong because I doubt Mungiki are even that many as to be considered representative of a typical Kikuyu. However, calling him a mlevi is not an insult to Kikuyus because alcohol taking is a problem all over the world. all regions of Kenya apart from North Eastern have pockets where alcohol addiction and illicit brewing are major problems.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 27, 2012 15:12:06 GMT 3
...and the news if that following the songs by the Muranga artists, violence has started no where and only intellectuals are arguing with themselves. That is how hateful this things it that the ones intended to be influenced by the songs are still milking their cows and picking their tea and coffee when the so called clever ones are killing one another with silly arguments! Kamale,You must be the only one who is not aware that Uhuru Kenyatta and Francis Muthaura are shitting bricks because they have been charged and indicted by the ICC for mass murder and rape of Kenyans because of their ethnic origin. Exactly what the songs are promoting, right? I don't think those gentlemen will be picking coffee and milking cows at The Hague. I don't think those who barricaded 7 kids and their parents in their home in Naivasha were doing so because those kids were stopping them from picking their coffee and milking their cows. Those despicable crimes were committed because of the ethnic origin of the victims. So you try being "clever", my friend but the reality is staring you in the face. You can't run away from it. Those folks milking their cows and picking their coffee in Murang'a probably have relatives and friends who were barricaded in churches and burnt alive as well as many others hacked to death and their property seized by marauding gangs simply because they are Kikuyus. Those ones left their cows and coffee behind, seized by others. These are realities we can't just wish away. That is why Kenyans are declaring zero tolerance for tribal hate mongers. They (tribal hate mongers and practitioners) may need to get another career whether they are politicians or musicians. That is the good news.
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Post by mzee on Jun 27, 2012 15:15:49 GMT 3
I'm yet to hear Mt. Kibunja issuing a statement about the tribalist musicians composing hateful song for and on behalf of the Hague bound Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta.
This is one person who should have been sacked ages ago were he not well connected with power barons. Here is a person who loves telling imaginary and fake stories about tension between the Kisii and Luo in Kisumu while ignoring real issues.
Once upon a time heard him warning Raila against telling off leaders who smoke and drink all day long instead of delivering services. But when it comes to Muthamaki and gang of hateful musicians, he is mute. What a useless guy. Bure kabisa.
And yes professional hatemongers have been put on notice and the people of kenya will deal with then wether Kibunja likes it or not.
The graves of kenyans buried during the Kibaki instigated post election violence are still fresh and no amount of hate will make us forget that.
Uhuru is at the Hague on accusation of promoting violence namely murder, rape and deportation. These are serious charges that no songs will erase. To gang up with musicians to sing about others mmm is to say the least dumb.
I will not be surprised if Anya (the victims lawyer) produces some of these songs as evidence in Uhurus trial. These songs in some instances quote Uhuru speeches at hate rallies word for word. When will the man stop digging his own grave? I dont know if he has has the capacity to. The train has left the station what next?
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Post by kamalet on Jun 27, 2012 16:28:49 GMT 3
...and the news if that following the songs by the Muranga artists, violence has started no where and only intellectuals are arguing with themselves. That is how hateful this things it that the ones intended to be influenced by the songs are still milking their cows and picking their tea and coffee when the so called clever ones are killing one another with silly arguments! Kamale,You must be the only one who is not aware that Uhuru Kenyatta and Francis Muthaura are shitting bricks because they have been charged and indicted by the ICC for mass murder and rape of Kenyans because of their ethnic origin. Exactly what the songs are promoting, right? I don't think those gentlemen will be picking coffee and milking cows at The Hague. I don't think those who barricaded 7 kids and their parents in their home in Naivasha were doing so because those kids were stopping them from picking their coffee and milking their cows. Those despicable crimes were committed because of the ethnic origin of the victims. So you try being "clever", my friend but the reality is staring you in the face. You can't run away from it. Those folks milking their cows and picking their coffee in Murang'a probably have relatives and friends who were barricaded in churches and burnt alive as well as many others hacked to death and their property seized by marauding gangs simply because they are Kikuyus. Those ones left their cows and coffee behind, seized by others. These are realities we can't just wish away. That is why Kenyans are declaring zero tolerance for tribal hate mongers. They (tribal hate mongers and practitioners) may need to get another career whether they are politicians or musicians. That is the good news. the harsh reality only become so after mentioning uncut mmmes and Raila...! So quit seeing hate when none exists....and if you wish to know, it is not the songs that killed the 7 in Naivasha or the many in Kiambaa...it is irresponsible utterances by Raila and company!
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 27, 2012 16:51:22 GMT 3
Kamale,You must be the only one who is not aware that Uhuru Kenyatta and Francis Muthaura are shitting bricks because they have been charged and indicted by the ICC for mass murder and rape of Kenyans because of their ethnic origin. Exactly what the songs are promoting, right? I don't think those gentlemen will be picking coffee and milking cows at The Hague. I don't think those who barricaded 7 kids and their parents in their home in Naivasha were doing so because those kids were stopping them from picking their coffee and milking their cows. Those despicable crimes were committed because of the ethnic origin of the victims. So you try being "clever", my friend but the reality is staring you in the face. You can't run away from it. Those folks milking their cows and picking their coffee in Murang'a probably have relatives and friends who were barricaded in churches and burnt alive as well as many others hacked to death and their property seized by marauding gangs simply because they are Kikuyus. Those ones left their cows and coffee behind, seized by others. These are realities we can't just wish away. That is why Kenyans are declaring zero tolerance for tribal hate mongers. They (tribal hate mongers and practitioners) may need to get another career whether they are politicians or musicians. That is the good news. the harsh reality only become so after mentioning uncut mmmes and Raila...! So quit seeing hate when none exists....and if you wish to know, it is not the songs that killed the 7 in Naivasha or the many in Kiambaa...it is irresponsible utterances by Raila and company! Kamale,I think you are getting too pathetic and hanging on to Raila's mmm is not going to take you very far, but you are free to do that. You obvioulsy cannot grasp the issues at stake here. Let's move to other issues. We have done what we intended to do with those knuckle heads and their demi god who of course can go sing all the songs he wants at The Hague. Please make sure he carries enough of those songs and ask him to give some to Charles Taylor and Lubanga. They can start their own band too. Good luck folks. We are moving on.
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 27, 2012 17:13:47 GMT 3
Sang's indictment:
355. Turning to the facts, the Chamber considers that the evidence available provides substantial grounds to believe that Mr. Sang, by virtue of his position within Kass FM as a key broadcaster, intentionally contributed to the commission of the crimes against humanity referred to above by: (i) placing his show Lee Nee Emet at the disposal of the organisation; (ii) advertising the meetings of the organisation; (iii) fanning the violence through the spread of hate messages explicitly revealing desire to expel the Kikuyus; (iv) broadcasting false news regarding alleged murders of Kalenjin people in order to inflame the atmosphere in the days preceding the elections; and (v) broadcasting instructions during the attacks in order to direct the physical perpetrators to the areas designated as targets.
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Post by mank on Jun 27, 2012 17:15:44 GMT 3
the harsh reality only become so after mentioning uncut mmmes and Raila...! So quit seeing hate when none exists....and if you wish to know, it is not the songs that killed the 7 in Naivasha or the many in Kiambaa...it is irresponsible utterances by Raila and company! Kamale,
I think you are getting too pathetic and hanging on to Raila's mmm is not going to take you very far, but you are free to do that. You obvioulsy cannot grasp the issues at stake here. Let's move to other issues. We have done what we intended to do with those knuckle heads and their demi god who of course can go sing all the songs he wants at The Hague. Please make sure he carries enough of those songs and ask him to give some to Charles Taylor and Lubanga. They can start their own band too. Good luck folks. We are moving on.If you guys are honestly speaking against ethnic hate, you will be wise to reflect on your handling the issue of circumcision. Let the damage done by the music be, if any, but dont add to it. Here I note that Kamale condemns the haste with which comments on circumcision leaped to explicit comments about people's private parts along with mentioning Raila's name. Then quickly Adongo pushes it a step further, claiming that Kamale just commented about Raila's private parts. Adongo, I believe this is a self serving leap on your part, which is fine, but I must suggest to you that it is a lot more damaging than the songs you condemn.
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Post by mzee on Jun 27, 2012 17:23:08 GMT 3
Adongo, Your friend Kamale is so intoxicated today. Railas mmm is making him crazy yet he is a man, I suppose but I could be wrong. He now claims that its Railas words that forced Uhuru to murder rape and deport people in Naivasha. If that were the case why is Raila not shitting bricks and other smelly stuff because of Hague? Why was he not in the so called �envelope�? Perhaps the cut/non cut saved him, who knows. Let�s get busy.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 27, 2012 17:26:42 GMT 3
Kamale,
I think you are getting too pathetic and hanging on to Raila's mmm is not going to take you very far, but you are free to do that. You obvioulsy cannot grasp the issues at stake here. Let's move to other issues. We have done what we intended to do with those knuckle heads and their demi god who of course can go sing all the songs he wants at The Hague. Please make sure he carries enough of those songs and ask him to give some to Charles Taylor and Lubanga. They can start their own band too. Good luck folks. We are moving on. If you guys are honestly speaking against ethnic hate, you will be wise to reflect on your handling the issue of circumcision. Let the damage done by the music be, if any, but dont add to it. Here I note that Kamale condemns the haste with which comments on circumcision leaped to explicit comments about people's private parts along with mentioning Raila's name. Then quickly Adongo pushes it a step further, claiming that Kamale just commented about Raila's private parts. Adongo, I believe this is a self serving leap on your part, which is fine, but I must suggest to you that it is a lot more damaging than the songs you condemn. mank,If you have time check the many pages of discussion on the issue. It is not just in jukwaa. Actually the discussion on the Star site is very informative. It is not just about one song. There are three of them. It is just a few people fixated on a few things who want to twist things to suit their pet obsessions. I would care less about Kamale's issues with Raila's mmm. That is his problem. I think the discussion has pretty much been exhausted and that is why I said it is time to move to other issues that may be of interest to some of us. That is exactly what I am going to do unless someone wants to knock heads with me. That is another story.
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Post by morimax on Jun 27, 2012 17:50:03 GMT 3
...and the news if that following the songs by the Muranga artists, violence has started no where and only intellectuals are arguing with themselves. That is how hateful this things it that the ones intended to be influenced by the songs are still milking their cows and picking their tea and coffee when the so called clever ones are killing one another with silly arguments! Kamaletquite incoherent . Hard to understand what you are trying to put across. Try again.
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