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Post by mank on Sept 2, 2013 22:48:50 GMT 3
Mank: Unless there has been some cleansing, the lands records should still exist. But, as I noted above, they will show nothing illegal: Mzee was given land by GoK, or purchased it from the same. On the other hand, if you are of an historical mind, you want to look at why very early on several trouble-makers, who obviously did not understand the law, were howling about Mzee's "land grabbing". I also note comments by Daniel Waweru, to the effect that he was properly acquiring land way back when. What exactly that has to do with Mzee's post-1963 acquisitions is unclear to me. Serious inquiry? Mzee, in several speeches to the Kenyan public, made it clear that he would not tolerate what he called nyoko-nyoko or mchezo. That's what he would think of your idea of a serious inquiry. Again, if you are of an historical mind, you should be able to easily find his ideas of solutions, all of which were put into effect immediately and decisively.
(2) The relevance of Mzee's prior acquisitions arises as follows.
It is part of the ODM (and allied) narrative that Kenyatta must have stolen the land he possessed because it is impossible for anyone to acquire that amount of land legally in the c 15 years he was president. As Mank pointed out earlier, this presupposes that Kenyatta acquired all his land holdings while he was president. That presupposition is false: Kenyatta acquired land well before he was president. And one generally shouldn't believe statements with false presuppositions.
(3) Your claim that no serious inquiry into land distribution in the Kenyatta era was possible is nonsense, I'm afraid. I'll mention just two of many examples. The World Bank collected and maintained extensive data on the distribution of land in the 60s and 70s (which included information such as the ethnic background of those who settled) some of which can be found in Widner:
Disaggregated data on migration patterns, which would give some sense of the magnitude of the influx into the Rift, are unfortunately difficult to obtain. A World Bank study based on 1962 and 1969 census data found that nearly half of all out-migrants from Central Province and Western Province settled in the Rift Valley during Kenya's first years of independence.[16] These estimates suggest settlement of about 166,300 former residents of the Kikuyu districts and 100,450 residents of Western Province in the Rift during the seven-year intercensal period.[17] The shortage of acreage for increasing numbers of landless people and the agribusiness interests of Kenyan entrepreneurs also generated concern that foreigners had succeeded in obtaining acreage at the expense of Kenyans. In 1967, the government had disclosed that nearly a million acres of land had been bought by foreigners during the first four years of independence,[18] despite a ban on such transfers.
You might also be interested in Segal (1967), who found that the main beneficiaries of land re-allocation in the Kenyatta era, taking into account population sizes, were the Kisii and Kalenjin.
I am not convinced by Otish's argument that any inquiry would not amount to anything where the Kenyatta's are concerned, ati because the tracts of land received by Kenyatta the individual shortly after independence were given by GK .... the argument is that Kenyatta the individual got legit land offers from GK (which just happens to have been under Kenyatta the public servant). Scandal by any definition! Scandals can be rewound, but we would have to be determined. Njakip, twice you challenged me on whether I am of a historical mind ... I am awful! You see, when I asked you to dig into the deals by Kenyatta, it would seem like I had never heard of the scheemes to settle people on former settler lands. Actually I heard ample about it in my childhood, but at the time I don't recall anyone saying anything negative about the scheme. You see, that was the time we got baptized with corruption. Jackson Angaine was god ... people did not condemn what was going on, rather they all spoke great of the powerful.... and were ever eager get close to them. Meanwhile at home I was crumbled with the rest of the family in under 2 acres of land while my father pursued cases to claim land that was taken by relatives who connived to eliminate my grandfather during the emergency - in my neck of the woods we did not have outsiders taking our lands; it was relatives registering their kins' lands in their names. It is now that it becomes clear to me why Kenyatta did such an about turn on the people, and especially the Mau Mau generals ... he was busy sectioning out parts of the country for his own and did not need the competition. Too often I have chosen to give the man the benefit of the doubt, thinking it is that he succumbed to the wishes of those who surrounded him. I think I see it clearly now ... it was a conflict of interest. Self interest was in competition with public agenda. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 2, 2013 23:49:01 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,Just because Orengo claims something happened under his watch doesn't mean it is factual. Sorry If you read I took Orengo's word for gospel  . ---but then he is a politician, he wouldn't lie to us, would he? We can calculate how long, reasonably, it takes to clear one title deed ---and see how many man-hours have been spent, and if the figures add up, for the 20-something thousand new ones Uhuruto claims to have speeded up. The rest of course were 'lying in state' since 1964, so it was merely a case of dusting them up ---if the storage was not carelessly Kenyan! [termites, mould, moth, tropical rain rot etc etc] You know this thing called freedom of expression? And in countries emerging from totalitarianism --- of the 50 years of Kenyan flag independence, about 35 were spent in stifling authoritarianism, necessitating a second liberation--- prezzo does not tell the opposition to shut up. he says: he is of course entitled to his views, and he has the right to express them, repeatedly in public. But what a waste! seeing he is erroneous and bereft of facts! A pity some take him seriously!That is the protocol of exchange in pluralism, Dear Dineo, civilised rhetorics. And we teachers will bring our lessons into State House if the occupants challenged in that region! This protocol of linguistic restraint escapes the senses of the son of Jomo. A pity. When the president starts to shut the opposition up, it is a recidivistic tendency toward intolerance and authoritarianism. Fellows like me hold vigil there, coz we flow with the word, think free and express it free. A shut up, is coitus interruptus, highly regrettable. Odinga can take it. He is battle-hardened veteran, with wounds to show for thick skin. So I woudn't be bothered to fight his battles. If the above is true, Uhuruto better arrest him for a land swindle, than persecute him for plotting a fictitious coup! --What are they afraid of? their own land thefts which would send them to jai along with Raila? No, I have not been following the news,  though I happen to have linked Ngilu's press conference where she announced she is going to revoke title-deeds from the former government! ---you may want to bother to read what I write before you reply in future, or just do not bother! NB: And it is because of that news of revoking Orengo's titles, that I fished up an earlier same act by Orengo in the same ministry, revoking titles from the previous regime! [MARSGROUP LINK] ---In other words, giving the historical perspective of how to the ruling elite it is all a game with the peasants. ---These are just comical moves, REPEATED OVER. When a free and fair referendum is held in Pwani, and you fellas ares asked the question ni Kenya ama si Kenya, like they do in Quebec, then the issue will be decided for me.  Currently it could be ni Kenya because Adoli and his boys unleashed murderous terror and and evened the ground. The way they beat up that man! a clear warning what business meant. tHE Silence of a sea surface with deadly currents deep down. That is pwani for me! |
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dineo
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Post by dineo on Sept 3, 2013 1:30:31 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,
Please provide evidence for any acts of thievery Uhuru has committed.
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Post by nowayhaha on Sept 3, 2013 13:35:42 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,Thank you for being more positive but I am not a fatalist like you. If anything, given its penchant for blindly emulating all things Western, the Kenyan middle class will more than likely grow fat, there will be heightened instances of hypertension, heart attacks, diabetes and cancer in their midst (as is already the case in Nairobi) and they will end up dying of those diseases or of consuming the Kentucky Fried Chicken, Nandos and highly fattening croissants they seem to have fallen in love with. Either that or they will be hobbling around on walkers and electric wheelchairs since they will be too obese to stay on their feet. And also, because military personnel are generally sourced from the peasant class, I highly doubt that any Government will set the military on its own. If anything, they'll go after the rich and middle class. I have no doubt that the population growth rate might pose a problem down the line, but that would be if we were operating only under the assumption that Mother Nature is incapable of culling the herd herself. And as we all know (or should), Mother Nature has proven that she can manage that quite well. We are not apart from her. We are a part of her. I will read the links your provided at length and comment later if I find I should. And again, thank you for the rise in positivity in you last post. OtishOtish,Thank you for wishing us well. We have to be happy for each other when good things happen to us as children of the same homeland. b6k,You said: Well I don't know about Syokimau or fake titles there, but the breaking news updates I have been receiving from friends and family in Mombasa have been heartwarming, wonderful and hilarious. Yesterday, we were all laughing about a generally unreported (at least in the media) incident that was witnessed by numerous folks at the Khadija grounds that is being ruminated upon in wapwani circles. Not many people outside Mombasa know of the intense hatred between Sonko and Joho. Oddly enough, though he is Jubilee, Sonko is very much loved by many people in the Coast (he grew up there). Joho on the other hand, has proved to be an incompetent bully since his rise to power. His 'boys' (goons) go around the city harassing wananchi, pushing people off pavements etc, he has already been implicated in a scandal regarding the mysterious financial donations he received that helped purchase the new Mombasa police cars (undeclared donations, contrary to Article 76 (1) of the Constitution), he is yet to submit a revised budget to Budget Controller Agnes Odhiambo (the first submission had a huge deficit) which means that Mombasa is in danger of losing out on county funds allocated by the Commission for Revenue Allocation, and of course, his fake degree saga. Basically, he went in there thinking he and his goons were the new sheriffs in town, which automatically brought back memories of the manner in which Shariff Nassir and his horrible sons treated Coast residents in the past. Anyway, when Rais had finished his final speech at Khadija Primary and was walking away to his car after the issuance of title deeds, Sonko who was behind Rais, alimzaba Joho kibao, in full view of the President's entourage and all wananchi gathered. After the slap, Joho akamlipa na ngumi mgongoni which is when their respective crew members rushed in and stopped the incident from escalating into a fight. This incident is now the talk of the town. Uhondo wa mtaa   A governor is said to have punched a senator during the tour of the Coast region by President Uhuru last week. The two were just a few steps away from where Uhuru was standing when the incident occurred. The problem started when the senator called the governor unprintable words. The governor responded with a calculated jab that sent the senator sprawling to the ground. The situation was saved from aggravating to a full-blown fight and attracting the President’s attention when another senator dashed to save his colleague and reprimanded the governor for “behaving like a small boy. - See more at: the-star.co.ke/news/article-134317/corridors-power#sthash.RPlkkv47.dpuf |
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 3, 2013 18:43:45 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,Please provide evidence for any acts of thievery Uhuru has committed. We start closer to home, where a clan vendetta or a bout of pathological greed on the part of Kenyatta's boy and his mother Ngina--- what else could it be? led Mother$Son to disposes his late dad's brother Ngengi of some, comparatively speaking in the light of the Kenyatta estates, insignificant parcel. Quick-acting AG Muigai [a family member ever fighting UK's corner and therefore highly prejudiced in this case] rose to the occasion and filed for immunity, not innocence. So Prezzo can get away with his pick-pocketing, in this case, pure kleptomania! ---you know that mental condition when a billionaire can not resist pinching even the last dime outta a beggar's hat! Like the tax return of a smoking gun in the Al Capone case, start there and keep going, Dineo. [ for the moment forgetting duplicities of the legal system so hilariously but clearly brought to light above!] On the bigger scale of things, for those really interested, there is more than tonnes of literature detailing the corrupt schemes used by Kenyatta [Jomo] and his clique to amass, and use the state to defend it with impunity. I would pity a Kenyan politically active, unaware of the details of primitive accumulation in the past 50 years of post colonial Kenya. ---Many a Kenyan patriot died opposing it! |
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 3, 2013 18:52:27 GMT 3
On the bigger scale of things, for those really interested, there is more than tonnes of literature detailing the corrupt schemes used by Kenyatta [Jomo] and his clique to amass, and use the state to defend it with impunity. I would pity a Kenyan politically active, unaware of the details of primitive accumulation in the past 50 years of post colonial Kenya. ---Many a Kenyan patriot died opposing it! Even though my normal gig is the tribal wars of medieval Scotland, I still can give a pretty good account of myself on post-colonial Kenyan history and political economy. Why was it again Pio Gama Pinto died and JM Kariuki were murdered by the Kenyatta I regime? Have a guess Dineo!The most prominent inheritor to the estate gathered by that state terror, corruption and murder is none other than the current president, Uhuru. Handling stolen property, being part in possession of fraudulently obtained estates, enjoying the proceeds of illicitly obtained cash in parasitic fashion [this is also the charge some countries put upon pimps ---the crime of active parasitism], are the kind of charges the son of Jomo can not clear his name of! But if the chief of Justice is say Mutunga the Willy Mutunga, it would be a bit like the first young Maasai who went to Makerere college, and sought audience a colonial court, to have the Laibon Lenana 1904 Agreements declared null and void. A psychiatric case no doubt, the Scottish Judge mused.NB: On land estates and law, I know the deal  . Because I have seen and read some of the documents of ownership which both the whites of Rhodesia and Kenyan white settlers used as legal seals to their properties/land holdings. These documents were/are recognised by Queens courts, and so long the British empire held, the colonials claiming dispossession before the colonial courts, had no case, neither against the empire for 'nyakwaring', nor agaist the settler for actual occupation 'kinyume cha natural justice!'. How did the above legal arrangement or order come to an end? ---The nicest I know, is the independent African governments had to compensate the white settlers and empire at market rates for both land and 'economic upgrade investment over time', plus projected retirement benefits. Because the independent governments did not have that money, the colonial mother country advanced them the cash in terms of a performing loans, which some of them, 50 years on, would still be paying interest on! Pretty neat! A closer look at Lancaster papers, if one is an emotive patriot, is a gut-wrenching experience. Otherwise it is just one of the greatest inter-state financial swindles of history in peace-time. The worst ending? ---that is for another day! Most history are bad endings! |
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dineo
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Post by dineo on Sept 3, 2013 19:36:21 GMT 3
Stop obfuscating Jakaswanga.
So basically, Uhuru's name was struck off the case because he was not a party to the alleged moving of the beacons by his father.
Find a crime Uhuru committed.
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 3, 2013 19:59:26 GMT 3
Stop obfuscating Jakaswanga. So basically, Uhuru's name was struck off the case because he was not a party to the alleged moving of the beacons by his father. Find a crime Uhuru committed. Oh yea, you would have it he is clean, or dirty but can not be proven? Parasitism. |
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dineo
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Post by dineo on Sept 3, 2013 20:32:57 GMT 3
Daniel Waweru,Thank you for the illuminative posts and info (links) contained in them. And by the way, if you're the Daniel Waweru who writes at The Guardian, I have enjoyed your pieces (and debates) there over the years. This has nothing to do with the topic at hand but reading your posts in this thread reminded me of the great disconnect millions of Kenyans have regarding how people (usually of other tribes/ethnicities) acquired the land or properties they own in Kenya (or elsewhere), or of why certain people appear to be "richer" than others. It is very common to hear that someone "stole" the land/property they own, when in reality, they more than likely began investing while very young, at a time when their peers weren't investing or where no one was investing. Basically, they seized opportunities that others didn't see. This is not to say that our politicians who appear to make up the richest in our midst generally (or rather, for the most part) aren't crooked. Many years ago, when George Saitoti was a mathematics lecturer at the University of Nairobi, he used to drive a beat up little Volkswagen Beatle. In a handful of years he was a multi-millionaire - through politics alone. When I was at the Main Campus, I had a dear friend whose mother was a widow and mid-level civil servant at the Ministry of Education. This friend invited me to her home in Meru and at the time, I found that her mother owned a three acre farm. Years later - actually last year - I met this friend again in Nairobi and we went to visit her mum. Well, this widow with two kids was now the owner of a 'shopping mall' and had bought the adjoining farm that is over 150 acres - from a neighbor who had become an alcoholic in the 90's and sold it to her for next to nothing because he wanted money to drink. The woman has houses all over Meru and Embu towns that she rents out and is developing even more properties in other parts of those locales. Now, someone looking at her would say this is a GEMA woman who stole blah, blah, blah. But I know her history. I am also aware of similar cases in Mombasa, of locals who have worked very hard, invested wisely in the 60's and 70's, and certainly aren't a part of the "downtrodden" Coastal masses. But when in discussion with locals about this wealth, they will always say they 'bought jinis', or 'stole', or 'that woman slept with so-and-so politician to get that wealth', etcetera, etcetera. I don't know where this disconnect comes from, but it is very toxic and tiresome. Given Jomo Kenyatta's education, exposure and general acumen, I have no reason to believe the man was a pauper when he attained the presidency. I have read a lot about his life prior to his being president and know that he, Harry Thuku etc were geniuses. Did he go on to buy property in an irregular manner, of course - as you yourself have shown evidence. But to sit here and tell us that the man gained everything he had from theft alone would be disingenuous. As for the Coastal strip, I am very aware that there are many people owning property there today who are outright thieves. Like Shariff Nassir's family, Sajjad, Bawazir etc, etc.
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dineo
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Post by dineo on Sept 3, 2013 22:00:16 GMT 3
jakaswangaOn the contrary, I know very little about Uhuru's financial dealings, other than that he has managed to quadruple what his father left behind, through seemingly wise investments. I know nothing about him, just as I knew nothing about Raila's financial dealings when I was a die-hard supporter of his... until Miguna Miguna's highly detailed revelations. I am in no doubt that Ruto (or for that matter Ngilu) has unclean hands. But if you're going to call a man a murderer, then it behooves you to produce the murder weapon. Or, as we say in my home area, usilolijua usilizungumzie. Don't confuse my request for evidence with maniacal support. I don't maniacally support politicians, unlike many of my countrymen and women do. I'm asking for concrete evidence so that I can be informed, that's all.
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Post by ebarasi on Sept 4, 2013 0:22:35 GMT 3
For those singing and dancing themselves lame on this issuance of title deeds, I say pole. As long as there is no clear and stated land policy, a road-map of the same, and input from the National Land Commission, you have been had, played and bamboozled by the illusionist/magician. This is just plain and cheap politics. We have been there before and it is only a fool who willingly shackles him/herself to shackles of slavery. Or is it shackles of doom?
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Post by OtishOtish on Sept 4, 2013 4:59:29 GMT 3
(3) Your claim that no serious inquiry into land distribution in the Kenyatta era was possible is nonsense, I'm afraid. I'll mention just two of many examples. The World Bank collected and maintained extensive data on the distribution of land in the 60s and 70s (which included information such as the ethnic background of those who settled) some of which can be found in Widner: You need to turn around and go about 1000 miles in the other direction; there, you will find what I meant by what I wrote. Read my words more slowly and in the appropriate context. There is serious, and then there is serious. I have no doubt that that land distribution information was collected by this and that person and that it would have shown this and that. I mainly made two points: (a) that Jomo's post-1963 were acquisitions were legal, according to Kenyan law, in that the land was either given to him by GoK or that he bought it from same. (b) when people like Odinga started shouting about land grabbing, we all know what followed. (Hard historical facts there, and those are unlikely to be in the World Bank or whatever records.) The serious inquiry that the people in (b) would have liked was not merely the who-owns-what and where they came from---the sort of thing that can be found in the type of reports you mention---but how they came to own the land. That is what bothers some people and which has bothered plenty of people since 1963. (Yes, I know, they legally got it from GoK, right?) Actually it the real issue has little to do with ODM. All this was well before ODM. The Odinga that I mentioned in (b) is the father, and the howlings from he and others so-inclined were in the 1960s and early 1970s. Did Mzee have land before independence? I'd be surprised if he did not. But I still fail to see what any of that has to do with his post-1963 acquisitions and the manner in which they were made. That also goes for his family (except perhaps for the brother he shafted), his relatives, and cronies. Land in Kenya is a very emotive issue. In places like the Rift Valley it is always dynamite waiting for a lit match, and there people know who grabbed what. People here can engage in all sorts of clever arguments about how X from Y got land in Z, but I do hope, for the sake of nation's future, that Kenyans will at some point deal with the ugly past. Perhaps a serious inquiry. Until the, kazi iendelee. Large-scale theft from public coffers, untamed corruption in every aspect of life, tribalism of the worst sort, the most outrageous abuses of government power, etc.. I hope that at some point Kenyans will reflect on those little bits of Mzee's firmly-founded legacy that bedevil Kenya to this very day. Otherwise, he was great man---Freedom Fighter, Father of The Nation, Devoted Father to Uhuru & Husband to Ngina, etc. etc. etc. My last word on that one. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 7, 2013 14:46:21 GMT 3
I am game Dineo. I have that tendency! I found this an intriguing statement. You need your eyes thoroughly opened. And that, can only be a process! the only Luo I know who works miracles is His Holiness Dr. Prophet Owuor! O the infallible one! On how the Kenyan elite quadruples their wealth, a study of the Kroll report and Githong'o/Wong's It is our turn to eat, should be good starting points. Studies of Uhuru's tenure as finance minister will also be instructive: Playing the 'benchmark' interest rate with the 'market interest rate' was one of the genial ideas of the young economist Kibaki when he first went to finance, and what endeared him to Kenyatta senior -- FOOTNOTE LATER ####] This was lONG BEFORE the ANGLO-lEASINGS AND GOLDENBERGS of Saitoti, Mudavadi and Moi that frisked a reported 25% GDP! That is a serious fortune in 5 years, even if divided 5 ways!] Ón another note: POSITIONING UHURU KENYATTA IN THE POST-COLONIAL GREAT ROBBERY OF KENYA. Uhuru was destined to be the good princeling. Protected from the kitchen where wealth is cooked. Old Jomo wanted him to enjoy the cream without knowing the price. Alas, Moi broke him in, but, if I recount my Gikuyu history correctly, it was indeed John Michuki who decided Uhuru needed a taste of reality, 'eyeballed him', because that American sojourn had alienated him from Kenyan reality. --- They call you Muthamaki, O ye the Chosen One! Stand forth and protect our people from this peril from the West while the Old Bull Kibaki sips but whisky! And that is how the son of Jomo rose to his fate as the Lord Protector of the House of Mumbi, and set the stage for an embrace with Bensouda in advance. Fatou, the lady from Gambia who suspiciously is the mirror image of our First Lady in build and torso! But that is another story. THE GOOD PRINCELING KNOWS NOT OF THE KITCHEN: historical perspectives. The most illustrative case of a Good Princeling is Nzanga Mobutu. Nzanga is the studious, urbane, posh-educated manager of the formidable Mobutu fortune. Asked on national TV --he was Kabila Junior's PM at one time in what some musicians referred to as the 'OUR DEAD RETURN CABINET!'-- about the origins of the fortune, he insisted his father had been a hard worker, that is all: where is the evidence he stole? [he escaped an assassination attempt after that revelation of daddy's work ethic, but that is another story! Daddy had worked hard at breaking the bones of a lot of other peoples' daddies apparently!] Correct he was, our Nzanga: his father had protected him from the kitchen. Whether anybody believed him is a different story. But there had been other brothers, most famous of whom was the notorious Kongolo Mobutu, the soldier boy. Kongolo was the guy in the kitchen. -- He organised diamond smuggling with UNITA, --smuggled Gold, took cuts in every business venture, -- run arms on behalf of the CIA, and had an annual business turn-over in the range of 10% Zairean GDP. And of course he murdered the opponents of his father and Kept the republic in the familiy. Meanwhile, Abroad, the enterprising Nzanga could get to the business of diversifying investments, and Lo, Behold! amaze himself at his money quadrupling mien! That it was Kongolo doing the 'work' back at home is pure fiction! and when Kongolo visited him, hundreds of beautiful women in tow  , 'NM' would ooze with contempt at his lowly lazy brother. A mere pimp! The money coming from Zaire which he found in select bank accounts, was partly the proceeds of daddy's honest sweat, but mostly his, Nzanga's, enterprise. And that is a good enough story for some! Uhuru reminds me of Nzanga: he heard no evil; knew no evil; saw no evil; did no evil. And he could theatrically ask on TV, show me the crime I committed? --that of being my father's son? And that is a good enough defence for some. THE GAME: THE BANDIT BOURGEOISIE AS A HISTORICAL PHENOMENON. Kenyatta Snr. belongs to a well-studied group of men who only discovered their business acumen and genius, once they had reached the appex of state power. Think of amongst others of the deceased first generation: ---The peacock-throned Shah of Iran, Reza the Pahlavi. - --Ferdinand Marcos [Philipines]; Suharto [Indonesia]; Hosni Mubarak [Egypt]; Obiang' Nguema [Equtorial Guinea]; Omar Bongo of Gabon (the one they once called the owner of Paris.) ---Also A crop of Nigerian military presidents like Obasanjo, BabaNgida, Buhari, Abatcha, and their Arab counterparts in Tunisia, Libya and Algeria. ---Anastazio Somoza [Nicaragua], Papa Doc [Haiti], and, to round it off by coming back to Afrika, the legendary Sese Seko, Mobutu the Cock of wide-spanning wings whereunder a multitude of chicks and hens find sanctuary!So notorious did this group become, that a new vocabulary was developed to cater for them: kleptocrats, tropical state gangsters, and bandit as opposed to the classical comprador bourgeoisie! In the Philipines they were additionally a PIMPOCRACY, because that country specialised in breeding and exporting brothel meat as their mainstay. [Ex przzo candidate, the comical Mwalimu Dida who owns an office exporting Kenyans [females?] to the Gulf, is an aspiring pimpocrat in this story!] But, back to the state bandits... As their individual and crony fortunes galloped upwards, the poverty levels of the mass of their people inversely galloped. www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2004/03/how_did_suharto_steal_35_billion.html And the capo Pater Familias had an enforcing son known as 'Tommy the Sultan Suharto HOW THE TOP KENYANS MADE THEIR MONEY.kenyaentrepreneur.hubpages.com/hub/The-Richest-People-In-Kenya And here is the top ten of Kenyan super wealthy --- all a political class in a country which has always been in the top twenty of the most corrupt countries on earth!If this political class asked me to PROVE THEIR WEALTH IS ILL-GOTTEN, I will take a leaf from the way I heard Paul Kagame give an answer: --' You misunderstood the question sir. I did not read you your Miranda! The days of joking and fooling Rwandans are gone!' [so I wouldn't be bothered going through all the studies I have read detailing the cash flows. There are enough clerks and forensic financial sleuths one can hire to detail that like Kroll on an all Guilotine day with an impartial Judge. Like this case of OIL TRADE with Gulf Oil States, where Raila, Kibaki and Uhuru really made a killing. Kenya would get oil at a batter rate, 30% lower than world-market price. These three gentlemen took control of the oil, sold it to Kenya at market price and pocketed the steep difference! When those at Kenya-Pipeline realised the deal, they followed suit, and it became the vile den of rot we saw in parliament during the inquiry recently. [Ouru and Raila were of course building a campaign kitty, preparing for the duel which they knew would come]. Well, this is Kenya and those days are here to stay! Now that we are going to be an oil producer ourselves! NB: I do not outrule, that Arap Moi, the richest Kenyan, authored a product hotter than Microsoft's softwares, like Mpesa you know! We bought it all, and that is how his son, Gideon, too made his keep! And that goes for Uhuru Kenyatta and Raila too! FOOTNOTE####: SOME HIDDEN BANKING SCANDALS, AND THE WHYS. As finance minister, the son of Jomo, having Michuki and Kinyua as mentors, showed some business genius. [Of course a Kibaki origina l, but the youth can be excused for thinking they discovered the wheel]. The forune wheel of a type that quadruples fortunes in double time . As a major player in finance insurance and banking, he offered himself and acolytes a benchmark rate of 0%, which is also a bail-out rate or free money. The selected financial houses could them make a killing at the sky-high interest rates at which they re-loaned the money to the Kenya Government, and others. You would have heard of stories that the Kenya government has a BIGGER DOMESTIC DEBT PORTFOLIO than the foreign? That is, in plane language, the Kenyan government owes Uhuru Kenyatta money bigger than the Ugandan economy! -----Where did Ouru get the money to loan the Kenya government? the naive amongs us will ask? He got it from the same government, via CBK, at a zero bench mark rate to his banks and lending constructs! That is the Central Bank is merely the privatised institute of a certain group for negotiating FOREIGN LOANS! It is only the debt which is nationalised, ie, left for Wanjiku to pick up. [That scheme is an example of a 'construction'] That is how you quadruple fortunes in primitive accumulation. Otherwise you will have to show some product you sold: ---like Samsung, like Facebook, like I-phone. You know how long it took some dairy companies, selling 100 million 1/2 liter packets per day to double their fortunes? Generations! ---See the history of Nestle Switzerland! Uhuru's business genius, is theft-based. But there are ways of being sophisticated about it, like we see in the Nigerian oil industry! But then theft is the core business of any ruling bandit bourgeoisie. Like the anopheles will always be the malaria vector! Keep the questions coming! I will be back! |
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Post by danielwaweru on Sept 8, 2013 13:01:08 GMT 3
Daniel Waweru,Thank you for the illuminative posts and info (links) contained in them. And by the way, if you're the Daniel Waweru who writes at The Guardian, I have enjoyed your pieces (and debates) there over the years. This has nothing to do with the topic at hand but reading your posts in this thread reminded me of the great disconnect millions of Kenyans have regarding how people (usually of other tribes/ethnicities) acquired the land or properties they own in Kenya (or elsewhere), or of why certain people appear to be "richer" than others. It is very common to hear that someone "stole" the land/property they own, when in reality, they more than likely began investing while very young, at a time when their peers weren't investing or where no one was investing. Basically, they seized opportunities that others didn't see. This is not to say that our politicians who appear to make up the richest in our midst generally (or rather, for the most part) aren't crooked. Many years ago, when George Saitoti was a mathematics lecturer at the University of Nairobi, he used to drive a beat up little Volkswagen Beatle. In a handful of years he was a multi-millionaire - through politics alone. When I was at the Main Campus, I had a dear friend whose mother was a widow and mid-level civil servant at the Ministry of Education. This friend invited me to her home in Meru and at the time, I found that her mother owned a three acre farm. Years later - actually last year - I met this friend again in Nairobi and we went to visit her mum. Well, this widow with two kids was now the owner of a 'shopping mall' and had bought the adjoining farm that is over 150 acres - from a neighbor who had become an alcoholic in the 90's and sold it to her for next to nothing because he wanted money to drink. The woman has houses all over Meru and Embu towns that she rents out and is developing even more properties in other parts of those locales. Now, someone looking at her would say this is a GEMA woman who stole blah, blah, blah. But I know her history. I am also aware of similar cases in Mombasa, of locals who have worked very hard, invested wisely in the 60's and 70's, and certainly aren't a part of the "downtrodden" Coastal masses. But when in discussion with locals about this wealth, they will always say they 'bought jinis', or 'stole', or 'that woman slept with so-and-so politician to get that wealth', etcetera, etcetera. I don't know where this disconnect comes from, but it is very toxic and tiresome. Given Jomo Kenyatta's education, exposure and general acumen, I have no reason to believe the man was a pauper when he attained the presidency. I have read a lot about his life prior to his being president and know that he, Harry Thuku etc were geniuses. Did he go on to buy property in an irregular manner, of course - as you yourself have shown evidence. But to sit here and tell us that the man gained everything he had from theft alone would be disingenuous. As for the Coastal strip, I am very aware that there are many people owning property there today who are outright thieves. Like Shariff Nassir's family, Sajjad, Bawazir etc, etc.
Asante sana for the very warm words --- I'm not sure I deserve them... (And thanks, also, for the examples you mention.)
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Sept 8, 2013 20:22:33 GMT 3
Daniel I usually treat writings of white people about Kenya and its history which scepticism. So, you would guess when I read your quotation of Wildner and Segal several time in Jukwaa. Most of the time those authors appear in your writing when you are excusing the 'land theft' of Kenyatta. Especially on the current posting, your quotation, it seems to me, is selective. A quick scan reveals, here, Wildner, p81, that contrary to your position, the Kikiyus owned over 50% of cultivatable land in the Rift Valley, I take it the remaining less that 50% accounts for the resident 'whites' who decided to stay. Kenyatta made a point to go to Nakuru and convince them to stay, and of course, the non-cultivatible land - e.g national parks, water bodies, escarpment/volcanoes. Your assertion that Luhyas and Gussi also took up land in Rift Valley, quote your friends Widner/Segall, is a stretch. The Gussii and Luhya mainly came to Rift Valley to work, as they were not displaced from their lands. I cannot see them being given land at the expense of the Kikuyus many of whom were in settlement schemes and/or native reserves. It nonsense to say that Simeon Nyachae who was the the most senior Gussi leader as the chief secretary would single handedly dish out land in Rift Valley to his people in droves. Kenyatta's principal reason of giving land to the Kikuyus was the fact their land in the central provinces was taken away by the whites, and then by Kenyatta and his cohorts. Of course, it the case that the people who actually desrved land, for examples the Mau Mau veterans were given nothing, as many were left to perish in poverty. Your friend Wildner gives the who is who in Kenyatta's govt t at page 81. The point that Kenyatta owned land before he become the President does not hold any water! if indeed he did, then the land he is said to own were not his but his wives. Kenyatta was born a pauper to parents who died early on his young life. He was brought up by relatives some of who were Maasais in Narok. He studied in a missionary school in Thogoto later to convert to Christianity. I think he married five times, two of his wives were daughters of colonial chiefs, Chief Koinange's and Chief Muhoho's ( wife - Ngina). He did manual work, and also worked as a carpenter and clerk. He later joined politics and become the KCA's general secretary. He used KCA to travel to London where he stayed for 15 years and married a white woman, much older than him to survive. He gained a bachelor in anthropology at UCL and later wrote Facing Mt. Kenya. After his sojourn in London, he came back and dominated the struggle for independence, was jailed and released to leadership. During that period, most Kikuyus lived in native reserve land in the edges of white settlers in the Central. But, all the land he owned, as listed in the wikileaks are posh arable which were ones owned by white settlers. What that tells you is that he actually did not own any land before he took over as the leader of KANU. It is with KANU and the negotiations he had with whites paving way for their departure and including the loans he signed with the British to compensate the white for their land which made Kenyatta a very rich man. He later cemented his riches under his presidency by putting his own people to steal with him. Yes, his wives from the Koinange and Muhoho were rich as their respective fathers colluded with the whites to rob Kikuyu lands, but that was not Kenyatta's wealth. To date, Mama Ngina owns her own land in considerable property wealth which stemmed from her father Chief Muhoho. If Kenyatta did not become the president when he did, he probably would have been a poor man. Kenyatta was a land thief who not only stole from his own people but also from others kenyans across the land. This is a man who gained his presidency on the back of Mau Mau yet kept that organisation prohibited all through his presidency! jukwaa.proboards.com/post/125606/quote/8656?page=2www.nation.co.ke/news/-/1056/685750/-/4chhdoz/-/index.htmlwww.nation.co.ke/news/-/1056/685756/-/4chhdiz/-/index.html |
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Post by mank on Sept 9, 2013 1:28:34 GMT 3
.... This is a man who gained his presidency on the back of Mau Mau yet kept that organisation prohibited all through his presidency!... Forget prohibition of the organisation for a moment. As he was assuring the whites that Kenya was their's as it was for the natives, he was humiliating Mau Mau veterans in every way ... verbally and actively. He (or his administration) had the fighters incarcerated or killed. |
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Post by danielwaweru on Sept 10, 2013 0:02:51 GMT 3
Especially on the current posting, your quotation, it seems to me, is selective. A quick scan reveals, here, Wildner, p81, that contrary to your position, the Kikiyus owned over 50% of cultivatable land in the Rift Valley, I take it the remaining less that 50% accounts for the resident 'whites' who decided to stay. Kenyatta made a point to go to Nakuru and convince them to stay, and of course, the non-cultivatible land - e.g national parks, water bodies, escarpment/volcanoes. Your assertion that Luhyas and Gussi also took up land in Rift Valley, quote your friends Widner/Segall, is a stretch.
I would also suggest that you make up your mind. Are White writers about Kenya useless? Then you ought to ignore Widner as well as Segal. Are White writers about Kenya any use? Then, when you quote Widner and accept her views, you might also accept Segal's view that Gusii and Kalenjin were the main beneficiaries of Kenyatta-era land reallocation.
During that period, most Kikuyus lived in native reserve land in the edges of white settlers in the Central. But, all the land he owned, as listed in the wikileaks are posh arable which were ones owned by white settlers. What that tells you is that he actually did not own any land before he took over as the leader of KANU.
(1) First, it is not true that the Wikileaks piece claims that all the Kenyatta land is in posh areas owned by White settlers. The Wikileaks piece claims that:
200 acres in Dagoretti. A 1,000-acre farm in Dagoretti is owned by Kenyatta’s first wife Wahu
Dagoretti is not a posh or arable area, and much of it was owned by Gikuyu throughout the past century. So, even if we assume that the Wikileaks report is sound, your claim that all the Kenyatta land is in posh arable areas --- owned by Whites --- would still be false.
(2) But the basic problem is that the Wikileaks report is false. At the time Job Obonyo wrote it, claiming that Grace Wahu was the owner of 1,000 acres of land in Dagoretti, Grace Wahu had long since died. She died in April 2007 (look up her date of death on Wikipedia), and Job wrote the piece in the aftermath of the election in December 2007. Her death was well reported in the papers, so it was obvious, at least to me, that Job was simply lying. Further, the piece of land (about 5 acres in Dagoretti) on which she lived for more than fifty years was very well known --- it is just opposite the Ngong racecourse. When she died, the land was given to a Catholic congregation of nuns. This stuff is not secret --- you can see the religious sisters at the place. No one has shown that she had a huge farm elsewhere in Dagoretti --- even the plaintiff in the land dispute in which her family was involved after she died did not make that claim. So, again, it was obvious, at least to me, that Job was lying when he wrote, in 2008, that Grace Wahu Kenyatta owned 1,000 acres of land in Dagoretti. This was simply not true.
(3) Lonsdale's claim is that Kenyatta was granted land when he married Grace Wanjiku (Koinange's daughter). Now, he married her in 1946, and KANU was founded in 1960. It follows that he was perfectly capable of owning substantial land well before the foundation of KANU. Your claim that he could not have owned land before the foundation of KANU is false.
(4) Let me repeat. The claim is unsound because it relies on Wikileaks, and the Wikileaks relies on Job Obonyo's post. But Job Obonyo's post has no evidence behind it: it relies on scuttlebutt and hearsay (for example, in its estimate of the Kenyatta and other major Kenyan landholdings, it relies on a Standard piece which has never been independently verified) --- and at least some of its claims are obviously false if you have read Kenyan newspapers in the last decade. So it is no use as a piece of evidence for the extent of the Kenyatta landholdings.
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Post by b6k on Sept 10, 2013 8:46:07 GMT 3
Especially on the current posting, your quotation, it seems to me, is selective. A quick scan reveals, here, Wildner, p81, that contrary to your position, the Kikiyus owned over 50% of cultivatable land in the Rift Valley, I take it the remaining less that 50% accounts for the resident 'whites' who decided to stay. Kenyatta made a point to go to Nakuru and convince them to stay, and of course, the non-cultivatible land - e.g national parks, water bodies, escarpment/volcanoes. Your assertion that Luhyas and Gussi also took up land in Rift Valley, quote your friends Widner/Segall, is a stretch.
I would also suggest that you make up your mind. Are White writers about Kenya useless? Then you ought to ignore Widner as well as Segal. Are White writers about Kenya any use? Then, when you quote Widner and accept her views, you might also accept Segal's view that Gusii and Kalenjin were the main beneficiaries of Kenyatta-era land reallocation.
During that period, most Kikuyus lived in native reserve land in the edges of white settlers in the Central. But, all the land he owned, as listed in the wikileaks are posh arable which were ones owned by white settlers. What that tells you is that he actually did not own any land before he took over as the leader of KANU.
(1) First, it is not true that the Wikileaks piece claims that all the Kenyatta land is in posh areas owned by White settlers. The Wikileaks piece claims that:
200 acres in Dagoretti. A 1,000-acre farm in Dagoretti is owned by Kenyatta’s first wife Wahu
(2) But the basic problem is that the Wikileaks report is false. At the time Job Obonyo wrote it, claiming that Grace Wahu was the owner of 1,000 acres of land in Dagoretti, Grace Wahu had long since died. She died in April 2007 (look up her date of death on Wikipedia), and Job wrote the piece in the aftermath of the election in December 2007. Her death was well reported in the papers, so it was obvious, at least to me, that Job was simply lying. Further, the piece of land (about 5 acres in Dagoretti) on which she lived for more than fifty years was very well known --- it is just opposite the Ngong racecourse. When she died, the land was given to a Catholic congregation of nuns. This stuff is not secret --- you can see the religious sisters at the place. No one has shown that she had a huge farm elsewhere in Dagoretti --- even the plaintiff in the land dispute in which her family was involved after she died did not make that claim. So, again, it was obvious, at least to me, that Job was lying when he wrote, in 2008, that Grace Wahu Kenyatta owned 1,000 acres of land in Dagoretti. This was simply not true.
(3) Lonsdale's claim is that Kenyatta was granted land when he married Grace Wanjiku (Koinange's daughter). Now, he married her in 1946, and KANU was founded in 1960. It follows that he was perfectly capable of owning substantial land well before the foundation of KANU. Your claim that he could not have owned land before the foundation of KANU is false.
(4) Let me repeat. The claim is unsound because it relies on Wikileaks, and the Wikileaks relies on Job Obonyo's post. But Job Obonyo's post has no evidence behind it: it relies on scuttlebutt and hearsay (for example, in its estimate of the Kenyatta and other major Kenyan landholdings, it relies on a Standard piece which has never been independently verified) --- and at least some of its claims are obviously false if you have read Kenyan newspapers in the last decade. So it is no use as a piece of evidence for the extent of the Kenyatta landholdings.
, are you claiming Job wa Jukwaa was an ODM propagandist? |
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Sept 10, 2013 9:57:42 GMT 3
Daniel
It is beside the point who wrote what - one needs to pass what is writing through 'litmus test' to see if it holds any water. In my view most white writers of Kenyan history have only placed empahsis on material given to them by their local contacts, thus my sceptism. Kenyan writers, on the hand, tend to dirty their hands to go and get the stuff on the ground. I would take for example Bethwell Ogot historical perspective over any white person any day.
So you assertion that because it is Job Obonyo who wrote about Kenyatta's landholdings, we must ignore that piece of information is simply to me hogwash. I don't know Job from you, and I don't hold any brief for him. All I know he is someone with special interest in these matters, like you. His views therefore msut hold some value. I also know he works for the World Bank, probably the reason his writing got into the USA Embassy cables in form of wikileaks. You, in the other hand, are a Kenyatta apologist, who benefited greatly from his legacy - which educated you to gain graduate qualification from Oxford. I guess that is why you are angry when I call your mentor a simple land thief. But, in an intellectual execrice, both your views must be read, indeed people read them, and hopeful they make their own judgements, as I do. However, you must acknowledge everyone is entitled to their own conclusions.
I stand by my allegations, which I note you have not refuted. Kenyatta was a pauper who owned nothing before ascending the Presidency. It is his wives, daughetrs of colonial chiefs, who owned property in land through their respective fathers. On Dagoretti, I think you are wrong. There are parts of Dagoretti today which are very posh and plum - a piece of land there will cost you an arm and a leg!
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 10, 2013 21:31:26 GMT 3
Now here is some point of footnote, which those to their liking can do some homework on. F INANCE MINISTER UHURU KENYATTA AND BUDGET ERRORS IN THE BILLIONS..... whether those errors were deliberate and by design, and therefor were a scheme at which the GCG dons Raila and KIbaki, Uhuru and Mudavadi, ripped off Wanjiku, their rape midwifed by moghuls at the treasury's wheels like Joseph Kinyua and prof. Ndung'u at CBK. Or whether the errors were genuine, in which case the crack-teams led by Harvard-trained wizards like current fin-sec Rotich, then a technocrat in the thick of things, are simply fakes who were totally clueless on the arithmatics of government expenditure and budgetary accounting. Therefore they aggravated error after error until the cumulative computer error was astronomical! --Billions! The Mars group proved to have better accountants than the national treasury which failed to discover the errors itself!  I for my own mental ease just went to ask other experts who study even more complex state budgets, what other scientific explanations could suffice for Kenya. Thereafter I reached the conclusion I have to get the considered opinion of an internal expert first. So of course i need the Harvard-ivy take of fin-sec Henry Rotich. I will ask him in his thread ---why is he absent from the eye of the storm! The budgetary errors during Uhuru Kenyatta's stewardship at the department of Finance: same computer firm that supplied the IEBC software? that one which went rogue and invented a multiplier factor of 8 and channeled some results through it? jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/3235 |
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dineo
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Post by dineo on Sept 12, 2013 19:32:33 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,
Thanks for your submissions on Mobutu's sons, Jomo Kenyatta, Moi, Kagame, Dida, Samoza, diamonds in Angola, Nestle, Mubarak, Papa Doc etc.
But like I said, the murder weapon would suffice - not sideshows, insinuations, rumor, unproven allegations etc.
Anyway, once again, congratulations to the Coastal Kenyans who received their title deeds. Tulisukume gurudumu mbele na lisiwe na pancha!
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 15, 2013 8:50:36 GMT 3
THE FEUDAL HELL HOLE AND FIX. NB: some of these peasants getting title deeds will soon sell them to marry third wives  . Or mortage them for small loans on which they will default, leaving their offspring as landless as ever. -----[A STUDY FROM AN AREA IN INDIA WHERE PEASANTS HAVE BEEN COMMITING SUICIDE EN MASSE, IN ADDITION TO THE RE-EMERGENCE OF [CASTE] BONDING OF CHILDREN TO A LANDLORD IS ILLUMINATING. Some smatter peasants will consolidate their plots into large holdings where fleecers in management, like Kazungu Kambi of old if you remember his case, will use them to get loans, commandeer the loans, declare themselves bankrupt, and let the banks confiscate the holding for default, leaving the peasants landless again ----[this is how the other swindling racket has been operating]. THE VICIOUS CYCLE.  Without an infrastructure to 'collectivise' or 'pool' the small plots into commercially viable estates, nor holdings which maintain a share in the subsequent industrial/commericial use which the estate is to be put to by its exploiters, this advise by Mwamburi Assumpta, is the one of asking teenagers not to get prematurely pregnant, while at the same time one is not talking sex education, nor availing contraceptions. The result is guaranteed rampant teen-age pregnancies and school drop-outs. There will be an 'epidemic' selling of land as 'hot' peasants cash in, and soon precipitated, a new crisis of landlessness. Instinctively [rather than scientifically] some people feel it, and thus the 'official' rush to ban the selling of land by those who received deeds only yesterday. But aint it a willing buyer willing seller in an open market? Or why this 'patronising ban'? BUT DO WE SAY? We all know it isn't a normal market. The peasants are the disadvantaged. They are operating in a 'rigged market'! They are a meal to the sharks that are speculators, the smooth operators tuned to make a killing. This breed is aware of the investment money coming ---for instance from China when the Asian giant moves to build its naval deep water base somewhere in the neighbourhood. And so this opportunity is so great tha the papers report they have camped in the areas with trucks of cash money! ---It is like the Oil-Company frontmen camping at ranches in Texas [to buy them out] when oil was discovered there, over a century ago! POLITICAL ECONOMY. Having raised the VAT on basics as a further squeeze, heightening the existent economic desperateness of the peasants; having thus increased the motivation of the peasants to cash-in on any valuables coming their way, a harsh nudge, the ruling class [true to their political-economic profile] distributed title-deeds to the "prepared' poor peasants who knelt down in gratitude. A few weeks later, the same class that confiscated and held those same title-deeds incommunicado for half a century without apologies nor compensation, have sent their agents to go and 'buy back' the land: This is the inevitable class game in the background of a parasitic comprador regime. MAN EAT MAN THEY USED TO SAY LONG AGO. These days: a gold-mine business opportunity, in a free market [even though we are ordering the sellers to stop!] NB: In the real world, it must be possible to muse, that those ordering the peasants not to sell now, belong to the wing of the comprador who have been found unprepared, that is that they have no cash at hand to make a killing, and, as they wait for their loans to be processed, are afraid they will miss the purchases at throw-away prices. So their shout of wait, is motivated by other interests other than the peansants's.Of course when the leading land-owner and expanding super investor and financier, the President Ouru wa Kamau, with his sophisticated business group, was dishing out the titles and earning political mileage in the process, he knew what everybody [except the coastals] know. --------With the planned massive LAPPSSET and other infra-structural upgrades in the offing, that land at the coast can not be owned by peasants. And the peasants have neither a collective [technically financially competent] organisation nor the individual know-how to situate the true value of the land. Their title-deeds are therefor a 'dead ownership'! They are a meal waiting to be picked. And must be picked. That is evolution, a la commerce and economics. NB: [And on estate formation anyway, the peasants are aware, was how fellas like Kazungu Kambi fleeced them. So once bitten, twice shy --chuth ber, acham athogo! The peasantry are doomed in this scenario to be a worthy meal for land speculators; and being led by clerical [religious ideologues] who work in tandem with their tormentors, the peasants are starved of an alternative mature and conscious narrative to their predicament. Rats, in a cage, vultures on the rampage. A feeding frenzy]Thus the crisis, enters a new phase with advent of the title deeds (and the sale of the plots in the same one motion). But the speed with which it has happened, historically speaking, is TURBO. That is a volatility which is an omen for nothing good. It is a wake-up call to land reform. Meanwhile: It is a temporary boom-time once the sales are completed, wine dance and babes for many, then their offspring will be back to landlessness, and some of them, within this lifetime of their willing buyer willing seller parents. This is not a UNIQUE situation. Can be arrested. www.nation.co.ke/news/A+week+later++villagers+in+Coast+sell+their+land/-/1056/1991914/-/13ej9sq/-/index.html Instead of preparing for planting. With the price of food that high, hmmm, how long before, by law, either you grow food to capacity, or loose land rights on agricultural land?! And in which sustainable economic ventures have the residents selling their land gotten into? here is a bit of background read from LAMU on LAMU and its land quagmire. www.savelamu.org/issues/land/ |
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Post by podp on Sept 16, 2013 10:33:02 GMT 3
at least no one is pretending that there is reconciliation after the many PEVs we have witnessed in 1991/2; 1997 and 2007/8. we all were cheering, except the CORD crowd that called the PORK and Deputy PORK clerk and messenger respectively with the lady Cabinet Secretary the chief cook when they dished out 60,000 title deeds in Coast and promised more. but does it not look a happy coincidence that thereafter the lady Cabinet Secretary incharge of Devolution among others said and it came to pass with the PORK and Deputy PORK dishing out Kshs. 400,000 to IDPs in Rift Valley to go forth and but land elsewhere where they can be accommodated...if real reconciliation was present PORK and Deputy PORK would have led those IDPs to their lands as not all can do a Muteshi i.e. get Deputy PORK compelled by High Court to return grabbed land. is it possible some if not most of the IDPs are headed to El Dorado aka Coast? Only at Coast can one obtain land at Kshs 10,000 an acre! www.nation.co.ke/counties/IDPs+want+more+cash+to+buy+fertile+land+/-/1107872/1993810/-/415pq9z/-/index.htmlAn acre is going for between Sh700,000 and Sh850,000 in most parts of Uasin Gishu and Trans-Nzoia counties. The government recently allocated Sh400,000 to each of the 2008 post-election violence victims as it closes IDP camps. Resettlement of IDPs was part of the pre-election pledge by the Jubilee government. “Since we were displaced, the cost of land has gone up, so the government should increase the money,” another victim, Ms Mercy Wanjiru, said. In Nakuru, 976 squatters from Rongai District, who filed a case at the High Court to challenge the resettlement of more than 3,000 Mau evictees and IDPs, have now opted for an out-of-court settlement to pave the way for negotiations with the government. |
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Post by mwamburi on Sept 16, 2013 16:50:33 GMT 3
My grand father couldn't sleep overnight as he waited for Mr. President to do some clerical work and issue him with the elusive document.Taita Taveta was the place and as you can remember Uhuru skipped the county during the last general election. Questions are arising now whether solving the historical land injustices would be solved by issuing titles which for a very long time gathered dust at the lands offices. One would ask whether 30,000 acres owned by the Kenyatta family, God knows how the family acquired should not be a priority in addressing the land problem in the region. From my conversation with many who received titles to them the duo was simply playing politics with a very sensitive and dangerous issue. Some have gone further to question the coincidence between resettlement of IDP'S and the issuance of titles. Two weeks later reports are emerging massive land transactions.
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 16, 2013 19:07:37 GMT 3
My grand father couldn't sleep overnight as he waited for Mr. President to do some clerical work and issue him with the elusive document.Taita Taveta was the place and as you can remember Uhuru skipped the county during the last general election. Questions are arising now whether solving the historical land injustices would be solved by issuing titles which for a very long time gathered dust at the lands offices. One would ask whether 30,000 acres owned by the Kenyatta family, God knows how the family acquired should not be a priority in addressing the land problem in the region. From my conversation with many who received titles to them the duo was simply playing politics with a very sensitive and dangerous issue. Some have gone further to question the coincidence between resettlement of IDP'S and the issuance of titles. Two weeks later reports are emerging massive land transactions. Mildly put, Mwamburi! GOOD INTENTIONS, COMPLEX PROBLEM, HURRIED EXECUTIONS, QUAGMIRE CONTINUES: A QUIXOTIC AFFAIR of Presidential proportions! as COASTAL TITLE DEEDS ISSUANCE RUNS INTO MORE THAN POLITICS. In the beginning there was this: ONCE AND FOR ALL! Pure mood music to me when I heard that! Then this shocker, if we are to go by a Kenyan newspaper! www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000093565&story_title=coast-governors-stop-uhuru-title-deeds Raila said the president should not go around performing clerical duties, nor those of a cook if he has never been in a kitchen. Now He has to go back and sort it out after all he left behind appears to be a burning controversy! So let Uhuru Kenyatta be the full clerk which he proudly said he ould be for Kenyans if that is what it took! ---Solve the land issue once and for all WITHOUT INVOLVING THE NATIONAL LAND'S COMMISSION! Of course we know the land issue, not just in Coast, is beyond clerical duties, however dedicated the clerk. Uhuru was doing this on the advice of a Public-Relations think-tank. Now it explodes in his face, though I am surprised at the speed of the boomerang. I was thinking it would take some time, and be subsumed with by his visit to the Hague! Well now the Prezzo appears to have been a fraudulent clerk distributing documents whose validity in law and veracity in registry files are highy questionable.That, thy clerical son of Jomo, is not what it takes! That is just another local swindler like there are so many in any local land office. ---Do not do it again! otherwise the Kibaki-patented word Kumbafu will be applicable to you. There is need for a comprehensive programme of national scale to deal with this land thing forever! Political gimmicks wont work. Once the land commission was sidelined, there was always an air of fishiness about it all. The Land Commission is the office of the details! DETAILS, historical records. Ngilu ignoring this office was nearly a confession of a corrupt exercise. sold sold sold! www.nation.co.ke/oped/Editorial/Coast+land+owners+selling+their+birth+right/-/440804/1993766/-/6wj69t/-/index.html here is the the coastal parliamentary group CPG, and they do not seem to be singing from the same hym book as the governors and local activists. www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Coast+leaders+back+title+deeds+plan+for+region/-/1064/1990518/-/4bkbvj/-/index.html |
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. ---but then he is a politician, he wouldn't lie to us, would he?
though I happen to have linked Ngilu's press conference where she announced she is going to revoke title-deeds from the former government! ---you may want to bother to read what I write before you reply in future, or just do not bother!
. Because I have seen and read some of the documents of ownership which both the whites of Rhodesia and Kenyan white settlers used as legal seals to their properties/land holdings. These documents were/are recognised by Queens courts, and so long the British empire held, the colonials claiming dispossession before the colonial courts, had no case, neither against the empire for 'nyakwaring', nor agaist the settler for actual occupation 'kinyume cha natural justice!'.
, 'NM' would ooze with contempt at his lowly lazy brother. A mere pimp! The money coming from Zaire which he found in select bank accounts, was partly the proceeds of daddy's honest sweat, but mostly his, Nzanga's, enterprise. And that is a good enough story for some!
. Or mortage them for small loans on which they will default, leaving their offspring as landless as ever. -----[A STUDY FROM AN AREA IN INDIA WHERE PEASANTS HAVE BEEN COMMITING SUICIDE EN MASSE, IN ADDITION TO THE RE-EMERGENCE OF [CASTE] BONDING OF CHILDREN TO A LANDLORD IS ILLUMINATING. Some smatter peasants will consolidate their plots into large holdings where fleecers in management, like Kazungu Kambi of old if you remember his case, will use them to get loans, commandeer the loans, declare themselves bankrupt, and let the banks confiscate the holding for default, leaving the peasants landless again ----[this is how the other swindling racket has been operating]. THE VICIOUS CYCLE.