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Post by kamalet on Jan 5, 2015 19:25:58 GMT 3
[ It is only in capital offences that an accused is entitled to legal representation provided by the state and for such offenses, a plea of guilty will not be accepted by a judge until the accused is explained the consequences of the guilty plea and confirms such understanding. Kamale: I am always amused by the way in which you routinely just make up whatever you think is helpful to your argument and then tear away. And you never let the real (and readily available) facts get in your way! The Kenyan constitution states that: 50( 2) Every accused person has the right to a fair trial, which includes the right—
(h) to have an advocate assigned to the accused person by the State and at State expense, if substantial injustice would otherwise result, and to be informed of this right promptly;Please take your time and read that carefully. Then read it again. Does it say anything about capital offenses? Would wrongful imprisonment for two years be considered a "substantial injustice"? Otishotish Believing that you have the ability to understand these things, when does a matter go to trial? If an accused concedes to the crime he is accused of, what would the be the need for a trial? If the fellow had pleaded not guilty and the case went to trial, then he had the opportunity to invoke that right and ask the magistrate for such assistance. You are wasting your time making arguments for a guilty convict on his own plea! And for your information the guy was jailed for ONE year on each of the charges and there is no mention of the sentence running consecutively......The longest the guy will be in jail is 12 months and probably in 8 with good behaviour!
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Post by OtishOtish on Jan 5, 2015 19:31:28 GMT 3
Otishotish Believing that you have the ability to understand these things, when does a matter go to trial? If an accused concedes to the crime he is accused of, what would the be the need for a trial? If the fellow had pleaded not guilty and the case went to trial, then he had the opportunity to invoke that right and ask the magistrate for such assistance. You are wasting your time making arguments for a guilty convict on his own plea! And for your information the guy was jailed for ONE year on each of the charges and there is no mention of the sentence running consecutively......The longest the guy will be in jail is 12 months and probably in 8 with good behaviour! Kamale: Believing that you have the ability to understand these things, I will call you Joe Kadenge, a football player who could "dodge" like nobody's business. Go back and read what you wrote, then read what I wrote, then read it all again. Carefully. Focus on the red.
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Post by abdulmote on Jan 5, 2015 22:35:11 GMT 3
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Post by OtishOtish on Jan 5, 2015 23:37:26 GMT 3
Kamale:
By way of a "P.S.", are you now able to tell us more on this of yours?
You seem to know a great deal on this one, and more information would help the rest us get a better understanding of what went on. I did ask earlier, but you were probably too busy. We'd all be grateful to know more ... whenever you can spare the time, of course.
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Post by podp on Jan 6, 2015 11:53:07 GMT 3
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Post by kamalet on Jan 6, 2015 13:40:43 GMT 3
Kamale: By way of a "P.S.", are you now able to tell us more on this of yours? You seem to know a great deal on this one, and more information would help the rest us get a better understanding of what went on. I did ask earlier, but you were probably too busy. We'd all be grateful to know more ... whenever you can spare the time, of course. Am sure if you search the net you will find it
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Post by bkichwa on Jan 6, 2015 13:45:59 GMT 3
I think the beauty of today is that we have public record (via his facebook account) of exactly what this man Wadi wrote to earn the jail term he has been given. So the issue of "confessions" resulting from "terrible tortures" can be quickly thrown out of the window, and we can look at this issue objectively for what it is...a case of hateful vile being recklessly and irresponsibly spewed by an individual. Let us not ethnicize and politicize everything. What Wadi wrote was despicable - I actually would like to see anyone argue in the contrary. Let there be accountability for actions, and let's exercise our freedoms responsibly. And yes, I know there are other Wadis out there who might have missed out on getting caught...so no need bringing up that rebuttal to this post. Let's stick to the main point i.e. the man has received due punishment for his actions.
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Post by Horth on Jan 6, 2015 16:26:44 GMT 3
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Post by kamalet on Jan 14, 2015 10:15:57 GMT 3
The Wadi case has been fought by some bigots as a fight for freedom of speech and expression. Claims have been made on the constitutional rights Wadi is entitled to without any reference to the limitations the constitution places on him and all of us. The killing of journalists at a Paris Magazine has evoked similar arguments about the freedom of the media and freedom of speech. The local media has been making as much noise as the foreign media and leadership about the extremism of those that killed and blaming religion extremism has been easy. The article by Mehdi Hassan perhaps argues the hypocisy of those making these arguments of free speech and free media. He makes sensible arguments on the limits and responsibilities that come with these freedoms well. This should make very good reading for those blind Wadi and Media freedom activists! A sword cuts both ways.......
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Post by b6k on Jan 15, 2015 10:07:45 GMT 3
So did Moses Kuria make good on his promise to provide Wadi with counsel or was he blowing hot air?
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Post by Horth on Jan 15, 2015 11:55:11 GMT 3
So did Moses Kuria make good on his promise to provide Wadi with counsel or was he blowing hot air? B6K, Even before the ink dried on his so-called apology, he was at it again, spreading hate using twitter. Check out his posting of 11th Jan.: Source: Is Moses Kuria using Bible to spread hate?
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Post by kamalet on Jan 15, 2015 14:06:01 GMT 3
So did Moses Kuria make good on his promise to provide Wadi with counsel or was he blowing hot air? B6K, Even before the ink dried on his so-called apology, he was at it again, spreading hate using twitter. Check out his posting of 11th Jan.: Source: Is Moses Kuria using Bible to spread hate?I have a problem with what we describe as hate speech. Does it become hate speech when a particular community or person becomes overly sensitive or is it when it incites people to crime? For example this Genesis one now being branded as hate. Is it only one community in Kenya that does not circumcise its people? I believe there is more than one community that does not circumcise its men so why would this be hate? If just makes reference to uncut phallus without asking that people chop of the foreskins of such people, just what hate has be spread? I see people making reference to people with brown teeth and this is supposed to be in reference to the gikuyu. As far as I am concerned, only a few people in Muranga and Kiambu actually have the brown teeth and this is due to the water they take rather than an element of their community! Merely because the gikuyu people could not be bothered about the reference to brown teeth, does that stop it being hate speech along the lines of mention of foreskins?
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Post by Horth on Jan 15, 2015 16:52:44 GMT 3
I have a problem with what we describe as hate speech. Does it become hate speech when a particular community or person becomes overly sensitive or is it when it incites people to crime? For example this Genesis one now being branded as hate. Is it only one community in Kenya that does not circumcise its people? I believe there is more than one community that does not circumcise its men so why would this be hate? If just makes reference to uncut phallus without asking that people chop of the foreskins of such people, just what hate has be spread? I see people making reference to people with brown teeth and this is supposed to be in reference to the gikuyu. As far as I am concerned, only a few people in Muranga and Kiambu actually have the brown teeth and this is due to the water they take rather than an element of their community! Merely because the gikuyu people could not be bothered about the reference to brown teeth, does that stop it being hate speech along the lines of mention of foreskins? Oh come on, Kamale, does one really have to be a rocket scientist to figure out which community Kuria was referring to? Maybe (most likely) suing Kuria in court would never work but really, just what in the world did you think he meant? Maybe he found religion with an “unfortunate” start? Really? Think about this: Toa goggles, tafadahli. You (I seriously hope so) and I both know what he meant. Kuria is an unrepentant tribalist who should have been locked up, just like the unfortunate Wadi who has no connections. End of story!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jan 15, 2015 19:44:25 GMT 3
So did Moses Kuria make good on his promise to provide Wadi with counsel or was he blowing hot air? B6K, Even before the ink dried on his so-called apology, he was at it again, spreading hate using twitter. Check out his posting of 11th Jan.: Source: Is Moses Kuria using Bible to spread hate? Horth! Sir, are you aiming to derail this thread by planting such a hot potato here? I will comb the Internet for more Bible references later. But from the top of my head I know this: This issue of circumcision nearly broke the young Church. The young Christian church, then Headquartered at Antioch. Originally as the Mosaic law sedimented, that circumcision was the covenant between the Jews and their God. Of course in this belief there was and is only one God, so the rest, and these were many, were mere idols worshipped by ''barbarians'' -gentiles. In deed if you were not circumcised, you were outside God's wings and grace in this belief system. However, the Big wide world consisted of lots of folks, gentiles etc, who had other practices than circumcision to ''covenant'' them with their God or gods, idols or not. Meanwhile, circumcision became a cult of national superiority and spiritual invincibility for the Jews who practised it; an emblem of divinity, making them all the more, in their opinion, God's chosen people separated from the rest of the heathen lot who knew not the cut. On the other side, Gentiles thought of their Jewish neighbours as a rather eccentric lot, and viewed them as a curiosity, replete with even more eccentric laws of food and Sabbath. But the world was big, and as Jews sought not to convert others to Jewery, it was a live and let live situation. And peace existed. More or less. (Ridicules, jokes, mockery abounded both ways! goodnatured like between us Luos and our washemeji, the Luhya who practice the cut!) NB: I tell you the moment Omundu has one too much he begins to sing at me thus: Mwanambere O yaye! mwanambere O yaye? Jakaswanga omukwasi omusinde!And instead of accusing him of hate-speech, what do I do? I accept his invitation we go to Mulembe night! Anyway to continue! Now the first Christian disciples were Jews, and the first converts too, and, even if Christian, they were steeped in the laws of Moses and did obey the cut. Then some, the Judaizers as they are known, insisted this exclusive Mosaic law, circumcision, was also binding to Christians. The problem was, Christianity, unlike Judaism, was evangelistic and missionaric. It was aggressive and out to spread and conquer. The word of God was too good to be hoarded by a select, exclusive group. Now, so long the first conquests/converts were Jews who practised circumcision, this issue was no controversy. But when a threshold was reached, and the majority of Christians were no longer Jews, but mostly gentiles, things came to a head. This majority did not wish to obey Mosaic law, which they now termed Judaistic tribal myth! -we are Christians not Jews! even if our Lord Jesus was himself a Jew! New Gentile Christian theorists were effectively declaring The new Faith the superior of the older faith. Acts 15: THE COUNCIL OF JERUSALEMThis circumcision quagmire was obviously an issue worth a civil war! was a doctrinal dispute on a fundamental tenet. But Christianity with its teachings of forgiveness and easy redemption (a very welcoming Holy Spirit) and a benign God, was a winner and was spreading like wild-fire, incorporating more and more ''barbarians who performed not the cut'', nor had they the intention of joining the alien ''cut-covenant'' doctrine. There could be no civil war, the Judaizers, hopelessly outnumbered, and theoretically not coherent, would loose big. And Judaism retreated further into exclusivity. For the Young Church, things came to a head in Antioch, and a committee of wise men was formed to mediate and author a binding position on the cut and Christianity. --Paul, Barnabas, Simon Peter, and James amongst other pundits, shone. The council then wrote a famous letter to the Gentile believers! And the issue was settled. Paul went on his way to Rome, and Christianity became the religion of empire within a few centuries Acts 15: Jerusalem conference: Now, guys, does anybody think barbarian Luos like Jakaswanga who practice not the cut, would have converted to a religion which, by doctrine, already declared them outside God's grace? Yawa! You fwakas! We eat fish men! And no God who insists on the cut is gonna be taken seriously in Luoland. Moses Kuria, and Kamalet you know as well as I do that Kuria is an anti-Luo xenophobe, is, intellectually speaking, stunted in the Old Testament pre the Jerusalem Conference, and the famous -ideological breakthrough-- letter which opened the way for the ''uncuts'' to join the [communion of] grace of God.The God who whose heart remains closed to the uncut, is no Christian God! and if it exists, basi shetani ashindwe huyo! Moses Kuria is first and foremost ignorant of the teachings of Christianity. Very good for him, because may be his audience is equally ignorant, and, perhaps, equally stupid. Now, anything else?
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Post by kamalet on Jan 16, 2015 9:34:02 GMT 3
Jakaswanga
On the basis that I am not a known Luo-xenophobe do I then qualify to talk about circumcision?
First and foremost, there is nothing religious about circumcision for I know the gikuyu community cut their men and women long before the crusaders and missionaries came to this part of Africa. Just like the Jews, they circumcised their men perhaps the only difference being the reason and timing of the rite!
I notice no one wants to talk about the people with brown teeth as I tried to draw a parallel! Luckily we now know that jiggers know no boundary so it is not a problem of the gikuyu alone hence cannot be used as an "insult" to the community (note NOT HATE).
I still would like to know what is so hateful of talking about uncircumcised Luos. It is their tradition that they have kept for years and I am yet to find one that regrets not being cut! The Luo have their own rites of passage and being cut is not one of them. I tale is told that the alternative was knocking off six lower teeth, but even if this were true as there must have been a good reason for it, would it be hateful to pass judgement on the Kamba for not knocking off their teeth?
So yes, Kuria is revolting character that is no different to very many bloggers some of whom have been ejected from this forum by Onyango Oloo. I sometimes think we should not confuse chauvinism for hate! So in parting here is a gem from old@
A gikuyu hymn goes like this: "...nyumba cia nduriri ciothe nicikamemendwo na ihiga...." This is picked from the bible where the homes of the philistines would be crushed leaving the homes of the Jews intact. Nothing innocuous about such a hymn until a chauvinist picked on the word "nduriri" which in gikuyu means 'other tribes' and you can see what the chauvinist was aiming at! The gikuyu were the annointed tribe in Kenya! But who wants to swallow such tripe apart from just working on the humour of it!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jan 16, 2015 19:25:17 GMT 3
Jakaswanga
On the basis that I am not a known Luo-xenophobe do I then qualify to talk about circumcision?
First and foremost, there is nothing religious about circumcision for I know the gikuyu community cut their men and women long before the crusaders and missionaries came to this part of Africa. Just like the Jews, they circumcised their men perhaps the only difference being the reason and timing of the rite!
I notice no one wants to talk about the people with brown teeth as I tried to draw a parallel! Luckily we now know that jiggers know no boundary so it is not a problem of the gikuyu alone hence cannot be used as an "insult" to the community (note NOT HATE).
I still would like to know what is so hateful of talking about uncircumcised Luos. It is their tradition that they have kept for years and I am yet to find one that regrets not being cut! The Luo have their own rites of passage and being cut is not one of them. I tale is told that the alternative was knocking off six lower teeth, but even if this were true as there must have been a good reason for it, would it be hateful to pass judgement on the Kamba for not knocking off their teeth?
So yes, Kuria is revolting character that is no different to very many bloggers some of whom have been ejected from this forum by Onyango Oloo. I sometimes think we should not confuse chauvinism for hate! So in parting here is a gem from old@
A gikuyu hymn goes like this: "...nyumba cia nduriri ciothe nicikamemendwo na ihiga...." This is picked from the bible where the homes of the philistines would be crushed leaving the homes of the Jews intact. Nothing innocuous about such a hymn until a chauvinist picked on the word "nduriri" which in gikuyu means 'other tribes' and you can see what the chauvinist was aiming at! The gikuyu were the annointed tribe in Kenya! But who wants to swallow such tripe apart from just working on the humour of it! You always qualify to talk about circumcision, or any other sticky subject for that matter! No one has the right to cut off your tongue from talking about cuts. -By the way, and that is why I was alluding to the mashemeji joke with Omundu. At the same time I and my friends from Mount Kenya always tease each other with these prejudices! Indeed there is a long way of everyday things and feelings expressable before hate is reached! ( confusing chauvinism for hate as you warn. Thin lines, but that is what we are humans for!) You are right circumcision predated the Christian religion in Africa, but I am told within Gikuyu mythology, the cut is still a covenant --with Ngai! When Ngai rewarded the 9 daughters of Mumbi with ready-made husbands each to her heart's desires, there arose a problem. They were uncircumcised (gentiles ) as opposed to the patriarch Gikuyu himself who was cut and valued the cut as identity. Old Man Gikuyu complained to Ngai about this, and Ngai, having other things to do than argue with his bothersome creations, agreed to have Gikuyu circumcise these 9 spouses and, further, all their offspring too. This arrangement too can be termed a covenant. A covenant between Gikuyu -the ancestor man, and his God, Ngai. This of course is an interesting story, no less great than God moulding Eve out of Adam's rib! Nevertheless those who study history must know how to read these stories. Methinks the Amazone daughters of Mumbi having killed off their (in-family) would-be husbands TO INSTITUTE THE INCEST TABOO, had to find new husbands from far-off. Apparently the available ones were UNCUT! But to be acceptable they had to be ''indigenised'' or ''Kikuyunised'' or ''custom-designed''. -By circumcision: that is pass through a rite of ASSIMILATION! Now you see how much money I won in a Gikuyu bar when I told them I could prove Gikuyus and Luos come from the same pool? - The only UNCUT people the 9 original daughters of Mumbi could have come across were of course Jaluos! And that Kamalet, is why there is such a love-hate relationship between us! We are family ! NB: There is nothing hateful in talking about uncircumcised Luos. Certainly not. The problem is, there is a way in which cultural practices can be construed/constructed deliberately as conferring superiority or inferiority. A community where all men are circumcised, can build an institutionalised disdain for the non-circumcised, calling such ''boys'' even if grown men. And this denotation ''boy'' can be further developed into a deliberate [immature] inferior category, to be excluded from ''adult business'' --like running a state for instance! An old man can also tell off his daughter bringing an uncut love home: get a man! What do you want to marry a boy for!? When there is fierce competition between the opposing cultures, wayward ideologues, bankrupt politicians, and their xenophobic activists will of course seek to whip up negative emotions against the outsider. In this they invariably use cultural symbols that already exclude, denigrate, inferiorise the other. You know, the way white settlers underwrote their racism and colonialism! Why do I say bankrupt politicians? Because an older generation has inculcated in me stories of JM Kariuki and Tom Mboya. I am told these men transcended their ethnicity and terrified everybody else. From Mombasa to Busia, Voi to Loikitoktok, everywhere they were received like Homeboys. All Kenyan boys. That they could not be defeated other than by murder, tells the story of our land. No Kenyans, just tribesmen!
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Post by foresight on Jan 16, 2015 19:30:17 GMT 3
"Moses Kuria is first and foremost ignorant of the teachings of Christianity. Very good for him, because may be his audience is equally ignorant, and, perhaps, equally stupid"
Jakaswanga..This is so true!
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Post by omundu on Jan 18, 2015 11:13:00 GMT 3
Horth! Sir, are you aiming to derail this thread by planting such a hot potato here? I will comb the Internet for more Bible references later. But from the top of my head I know this: This issue of circumcision nearly broke the young Church. The young Christian church, then Headquartered at Antioch. Originally as the Mosaic law sedimented, that circumcision was the covenant between the Jews and their God. Of course in this belief there was and is only one God, so the rest, and these were many, were mere idols worshipped by ''barbarians'' -gentiles. In deed if you were not circumcised, you were outside God's wings and grace in this belief system. However, the Big wide world consisted of lots of folks, gentiles etc, who had other practices than circumcision to ''covenant'' them with their God or gods, idols or not. Meanwhile, circumcision becam Indeed jakaswanga. Our good old folks of yore practiced good neighbourliness. Infact, instead of using culture to look down upon others, they tended to assimilate some practices. I know for a fact that luhyas reaiding closer to the luos also removed six teeth while some from farther west removed about four. We even assimilated tattoos and body cuts on the abdomen from the luos and the kalenjins even copied the body cuts because they deemed our women very beautiful because of the tattoos and cuts. My kukhu still bares those cuts on the face. Moses kuria using the bible as justification for his arguement is the height of ignorance. religion (and not just islam. Christianity has been the worst hiatorically) has been used as justification for the worst forms of bigotry and evil to befall mankind. From the crusades to slavery, fascism, ethnic cleansing, apartheid etc. it works because quoting the bible does not require man to use his faculties to question. You are told to just believe. Have faith. Thats why the kurias of this world use it.
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Post by b6k on Jan 18, 2015 11:49:10 GMT 3
So did Moses Kuria make good on his promise to provide Wadi with counsel or was he blowing hot air? B6K, Even before the ink dried on his so-called apology, he was at it again, spreading hate using twitter. Check out his posting of 11th Jan.: Source: Is Moses Kuria using Bible to spread hate?Thankfully Moses Kuria shot himself in the foot by not appearing to be apologetic. In this PC world we live in the least he could've done was remove the reference to the contentious biblical verse & lay low. His arrogance has cost him now that the NCIC has rescinded its mediation & thrown him back to the mercy of the courts. What will the courts do now? They've shown a propensity to be easy on those who know people & rather harsh on those who don't.
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Post by Horth on Jan 18, 2015 17:18:42 GMT 3
Thankfully Moses Kuria shot himself in the foot by not appearing to be apologetic. In this PC world we live in the least he could've done was remove the reference to the contentious biblical verse & lay low. His arrogance has cost him now that the NCIC has rescinded its mediation & thrown him back to the mercy of the courts. What will the courts do now? They've shown a propensity to be easy on those who know people & rather harsh on those who don't. The following is something I never ever expected to hear of after Moi was chased away in 2002: CID release blogger Abraham Mutai arrested for belittling "big people in Govt"Extract: " Mutai who uses the Twitter account @itsmutai, was arrested at about 1pm in Mombasa before he was driven by CID officers to Nairobi. They arrived at about 11pm and was booked at Muthaiga police station." Arrested in Mombasa and then driven all the way to Muthaiga police station?
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Post by jakaswanga on Jan 18, 2015 20:42:38 GMT 3
Thankfully Moses Kuria shot himself in the foot by not appearing to be apologetic. In this PC world we live in the least he could've done was remove the reference to the contentious biblical verse & lay low. His arrogance has cost him now that the NCIC has rescinded its mediation & thrown him back to the mercy of the courts. What will the courts do now? They've shown a propensity to be easy on those who know people & rather harsh on those who don't. The following is something I never ever expected to hear of after Moi was chased away in 2002: CID release blogger Abraham Mutai arrested for belittling "big people in Govt"Extract: " Mutai who uses the Twitter account @itsmutai, was arrested at about 1pm in Mombasa before he was driven by CID officers to Nairobi. They arrived at about 11pm and was booked at Muthaiga police station." Arrested in Mombasa and then driven all the way to Muthaiga police station? Horth, personally I am a pessimist. I was looking friday at a detailed account by a europarliamentary work-group on what has transpired in Egypt ever since the restoration of democracy under the generals led by Abdel Sisi. The arrests have passed 20,000. Killed journalists and bloggers abound. So what is so special about Kenya she can handle freedom of thought? Soldiers --like Nkaisery, are used to dishing out orders. When you contradict them and show them how silly and stupid their orders are, even unconstitutional, they tend to get that look in their eyes! you know, that mentally void look which can only be filled with state force!
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Post by b6k on Jan 18, 2015 22:17:36 GMT 3
Thankfully Moses Kuria shot himself in the foot by not appearing to be apologetic. In this PC world we live in the least he could've done was remove the reference to the contentious biblical verse & lay low. His arrogance has cost him now that the NCIC has rescinded its mediation & thrown him back to the mercy of the courts. What will the courts do now? They've shown a propensity to be easy on those who know people & rather harsh on those who don't. The following is something I never ever expected to hear of after Moi was chased away in 2002: CID release blogger Abraham Mutai arrested for belittling "big people in Govt"Extract: " Mutai who uses the Twitter account @itsmutai, was arrested at about 1pm in Mombasa before he was driven by CID officers to Nairobi. They arrived at about 11pm and was booked at Muthaiga police station." Arrested in Mombasa and then driven all the way to Muthaiga police station? Horth, it looks like someone's living as if Nkaissery's proposed "traffic offenses act" is law in blogging matters as well. Here's what he had in mind: "Last Tuesday, the good General intimated that he was preparing a law or rules that would make traffic offences be tried in places remote to the scene of crime. Nkaissery gave as examples instances where a traffic offender in Mombasa could find himself or herself being arraigned in Kisumu courts while an offender in Nairobi could be tried in Mandera. This, according to the Cabinet Secretary, would instil discipline among the Kenyan motoring public, who would be dissuaded from breaking the law due to the huge financial costs involved, and productive time taken. I hope the minister was cracking a joke and was able to laugh at his own joke." www.the-star.co.ke/news/clearly-wrong-start-nkaisseryIt seems to me the cops are instinctively returning to their Police Force/Farce? ways as they shelve the Police Service wool they briefly covered themselves with back in 2010 when the Constitution was promulgated. I never expected I'd miss Kibaki & his "I hear no evil" ways when it came to taking criticism so soon into the digital era...
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Post by kamalet on Jan 19, 2015 9:56:52 GMT 3
As we continue to make holier than thou statements on freedom of speech when it affects certain people and vilify others for hate speech, we continue to sometimes ignore the rights of the victims.
Take the case of Mutai. I do not know the character and only heard about him for the first time this weekend when I saw n twitter that he had been arrested. It was claimed he was a blogger writing on corruption in Isiolo and Garissa. Many reasons were given for his arrest and the media has helped quite a bit in adding to the speculation when they allege that the man had "insulted big people".
I would start with the simple question whether insults to big people is okay and not okay for small people!
Mutai has written his articles on corruption and he is within his rights to do so especially if he has the facts to back his case. He can accuse people and name and shame them if he has the facts to prove his allegations. If one of the people that is named files a case with the police that he is being defamed by Mutai, then the police are obliged to investigate. So if Mutai wronged a big shot - and Governors are big shots in the current scheme of power - then he must account for his allegations. It cannot be Cartle Blanche for anyone to make allegations against those in authority and then hide behind 'freedom of speech'. This freedom must come with responsibility!
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Post by Horth on Jan 19, 2015 10:33:03 GMT 3
As we continue to make holier than thou statements on freedom of speech when it affects certain people and vilify others for hate speech, we continue to sometimes ignore the rights of the victims. Take the case of Mutai. I do not know the character and only heard about him for the first time this weekend when I saw n twitter that he had been arrested. It was claimed he was a blogger writing on corruption in Isiolo and Garissa. Many reasons were given for his arrest and the media has helped quite a bit in adding to the speculation when they allege that the man had "insulted big people". I would start with the simple question whether insults to big people is okay and not okay for small people! Mutai has written his articles on corruption and he is within his rights to do so especially if he has the facts to back his case. He can accuse people and name and shame them if he has the facts to prove his allegations. If one of the people that is named files a case with the police that he is being defamed by Mutai, then the police are obliged to investigate. So if Mutai wronged a big shot - and Governors are big shots in the current scheme of power - then he must account for his allegations. It cannot be Cartle Blanche for anyone to make allegations against those in authority and then hide behind 'freedom of speech'. This freedom must come with responsibility! Kamale,You’re mixing up the issues here. Like you, I’d never heard of Mutai and still have no idea what he wrote about. The point of this thread was on the (mis)application of the legal system by the government. What reasons has the government given for driving Mutai from Mombasa to book him at Muthaiga police station? Does that make sense? Gado sums it up more than adequately: I personally think Saba Saba was the tipping point and really scared the bejesus out of Uhuruto, kind of brought them down from their lofty heights with a bone jarring reality check. Like Jakaswanga mentions, Kenyan’s wrongly think we’re, ha ha pardon me, different and special. On RAO’s part, an unfortunate example of the law of unintended consequences maybe? Whatever it was, Uhuru and Ruto have given us a good hard peek at their true character and, to use a wrongly attributed Chinese quote, we’re gonna live in interesting times. Blaming puppets like Nkaisery is pointless as I always see the ventriloquist controlling them, you know, the one who gives him the cojones to say ridiculous things.
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Post by kamalet on Jan 19, 2015 12:29:59 GMT 3
Horth We accuse the government wrongly. It is not becoming any more dictatorial than it has been. The problem is that people are constantly pushing the boundaries and the consequences if not checked can be dangerous. You see how we pushed tribal clashes in 2007 after failing to deal with the problem in the 90s. The government must protect those that are afflicted by the careless blogging we do. Whether you insult a community or an individual in your quest to say what you think you can, the government has a responsibility to protect you as much as it is expected to protect the freedom of speech of every Kenya who makes a fair comment. We cannot behave as they are doing in the west following the Charles Hebdo saga claiming the right to free speech in drawing caricatures of the Prophet Mohamed but when the same paper sacks an editor for anti-semitic article we cannot raise an eyebrow. So if Mutai is entitled to say what he wants without arrest notwithstanding a complaint from those he alleges are stealing, then you must allow Moses Kuria to say what he wants in exercise of his freedom of speech! If it is dictatorial for one, it cannot be for the other...I am afraid! Perhaps you can look at this article in Mavultures.comwhich has the enticing header of a plundering and stealing mother of the nation. But if you read the whole article, apart from generalisations, there is no specific attempt at pinpointing the wrong doing by the good lady. The article was written way back in 2012 as part of the campaign strategy to vilify the Kenyatta family with Uhuru as a candidate. This in my view is unfortunate writing. If I think you have stolen, I should provide the evidence that would be used by the authorities to prosecute you!
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