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Post by kamalet on Jan 1, 2008 18:57:44 GMT 3
After the cold blooded murder of the people who had taken refuge in a church that was burnt in Eldoret, I am no longer convinced that the violence is anymore linked to the elections. This I would like to believe is a response to a call for ethnic cleansing by political leaders in the region to target communities.
My view is that unless the local leadership takes charge and dissuades their followers including the thousands being reported as moving into Burnt Forest, then the governmnet MUST immediately use all the power they have under the LAW to stop these killings. Frankly as of now, I do not care if this included the derogation of constitutional freedoms of the murderers and the invocation of the Preservation of Public Security Act.
The next thing you are going to hear is the targetting of these same communities in central and Nairobi, and we all know the end result of this mayhem.
These killings MUST stop.
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Post by kingpin on Jan 1, 2008 19:16:02 GMT 3
Kamalet,
I believe there is no one in Jukwaa who dont share the grief and travails of these killings in Kisumu,Nairobi,Mombasa,Eldoret etcs.
Lets face it,would this bloodshed happened had Kibaki heeded Prof.Wangari Maathai's advice? Imagine how things would have been had Kibaki insisted on transparency at KICC? Imagine how Kenya would be different had Kibaki insisted on ECK announcing results verified by joint PNU/ODM audit team?
Kamalet, we all know where the bucks stops and it is not too late.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jan 1, 2008 19:16:21 GMT 3
After the cold blooded murder of the people who had taken refuge in a church that was burnt in Eldoret, I am no longer convinced that the violence is anymore linked to the elections. This I would like to believe is a response to a call for ethnic cleansing by political leaders in the region to target communities. My view is that unless the local leadership takes charge and dissuades their followers including the thousands being reported as moving into Burnt Forest, then the governmnet MUST immediately use all the power they have under the LAW to stop these killings. Frankly as of now, I do not care if this included the derogation of constitutional freedoms of the murderers and the invocation of the Preservation of Public Security Act. The next thing you are going to hear is the targetting of these same communities in central and Nairobi, and we all know the end result of this mayhem. These killings MUST stop. Kibaki need to ask himself one question. How come nobody is scared of him and his goons. That really is the issue. They killed hundreds in Kisumu yesterday and today even more people are ready to fight. Why didn't we hear about the Kisumu genocide from you? If you guys think that force is the answer, force is what you will get in abundance. And it will be more than Kibaki can handle. Very soon the armed forces are going to question their role as they are ordered to kill Kenyans. Let me put it this way. Nobody is going to back off and endorse Kibaki's illegitimate government. What Kibaki wants is what he will get. That is what Kenyans are telling him. With inbuilt tribal problems in the national pyche this could be an absolute catastrophe. The Kibaki "celebrations" have to be put on hold. That is my thinking anyways. We have a political problem in the country. No amount of force will solve it in the name of "LAW". Kibaki will go in flames or in peace. It is all up to him. Right now it doesn't look very good. Those thousands marching to Burnt Forest have to be stopped. If they get there forget it. Raila, Ruto and the entire Pentagon have to go to Rift Valley and talk to the citizens before this thing gets completely out of control. I think the war can still be averted. But not with this stupid law and order crap. It is the politics, stupid. That is what we have to deal with. Right NOW. Kibaki cannot threaten anybody. One more false step could be fatal for the country. We are talking days now before this thing explodes. That is my two cents. adongo |
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Post by aeichener on Jan 1, 2008 19:27:08 GMT 3
We know where the buck stops. It stops with those who alraedy before the elections had outright declared that they would never accept any other result than their own victory. It stops with those who had incessantly hammered (sic) with instigations of tribal hatred already months before the elections, because they hoped to benefit from such mood. It backfired.
Of course it is true, that such gruesome murders as in Eldoret are no longer directly election-related, but are grown on an already existing ground of tribal violence, a ground only recently ploughed however, and had been instigated mostly by local politicians long before.
Insofar, they are not germane to any specific party.
Alexander
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Post by wakwitu on Jan 1, 2008 19:47:24 GMT 3
What happened in Eldoret is nothing short of genocide. I choked up when I read it.
I can not believe you my fellow Kenyans, you are still debating who said what to whom?
People are being massacred and someone is calling for more state led violence in the name of peace and order. NO! NO! What is needed is for ODM and the government to go to these areas and talk to the people. As Adongo said in another thread, this is the time for ODM in particular, to lead from the front. The government should allow them to go their areas of influence and calm down the people.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jan 1, 2008 20:34:50 GMT 3
What happened in Eldoret is nothing short of genocide. I choked up when I read it. I can not believe you my fellow Kenyans, you are still debating who said what to whom? People are being massacred and someone is calling for more state led violence in the name of peace and order. NO! NO! What is needed is for ODM and the government to go to these areas and talk to the people. As Adongo said in another thread, this is the time for ODM in particular, to lead from the front. The government should allow them to go their areas of influence and calm down the people. Yes. ODM has to take leadership in the frontline. Just go there and talk to people. They will listen. Kibaki is a pitiful despot with no control of the country. The ODM should stop playing games with him. I don't care about the Thursday rally. It is useless if this violence continues. Have the rally yes, it will be worldwide, but show the country you are in control of things. The ODM is indeed the government. They have to talk to the citizenry directly and calm things down. We know they are in a tight spot with possible arrests pending. That is ok. Who said freedom is cheap. Certainly not Kibaki. I just want the ODM pentagon to go to Rift Valley today and stay there until they cool down the situation. Kisumu was bad yesterday and so was Nairobi and Kibaki will answer for that. But only the ODM can save the country now. They have to. My message to ODM is simple. Stop looking to Kibaki for leadership. Take control of the situation. We cannot afford to lose the country. It is the only thing we got. Take control and let Kibaki do what he wants. Kenyans will answer him. Yes, they will. adongo |
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Post by mimimzalendo on Jan 1, 2008 20:51:21 GMT 3
KAMALET,
NOW YOU SPEAK OF GENOCIDE. WERE THE NGONG KILLINGS BY POLICE & MICHUKI GENOCIDE?
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Post by kipsang on Jan 1, 2008 21:42:16 GMT 3
Kamale..
Nonsense, when a Kikuyu dies thats when you talk of a genocide. Where was your voice when Mt. Elgon was burning. What do you say about the one sided shooting by the police. I hate to say this- Mlijitafutia wenyewe.
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Post by job on Jan 1, 2008 22:10:56 GMT 3
Violence is a terrible and painful thing but when Kamale only sees it from a tribal angle then he sounds ridiculous.
Kamale now says he thinks the violence was not election related. Yaani folks just got up and decided to go and hack the Kikuyu for New year.
Yaani the police are also not cracking down killing Kales and other tribes protesting against a stolen election. What does he say about the killings at Kuresoi, Mt Elgon or Likia that have continued for most of Kibaki's tenure? Nothing.
All death is painful, whether it is refugees killed in church, or 10 protesters shot dead by cops in Kericho, or fleeing children shot dead by police, or innocent civilians hacked to death by Mungiki, or civilians hacking each other in Mt Elgon. All these we are witnessing right infront of our eyes despite your kibaki apologism.
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Post by kipsang on Jan 2, 2008 7:52:47 GMT 3
It was the Mungiki who set the church on fire and failed to evacuate the old and the children. If those that were guarding the church were over powered as reported in the media then why were their lives spared?
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Post by odmcalifornia on Jan 2, 2008 9:24:28 GMT 3
Kipsang i agree, i wonder where everyone was when Mt. Elgon has been going through a Genocide for the past 2 years! What happend in Eldoret is wrong, but the blame squarely lies with the Government. Sending armed GSU units to kill innocent un-armed civilians based on their ethnicity will not improve the situation. YOu hear arrogant ministers from Central Kenya keep on preaching use all force necessary, these people do not realize we do not live in the era of Jomo Kenyatta! This is a true reality of why alot of young Kenyans are ready to fight for justice! www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e9b82f4a-b884-11dc-893b-0000779fd2ac.html |
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Post by aeichener on Jan 2, 2008 12:25:02 GMT 3
After the cold blooded murder of the people who had taken refuge in a church that was burnt in Eldoret, I am no longer convinced that the violence is anymore linked to the elections. This I would like to believe is a response to a call for ethnic cleansing by political leaders in the region to target communities. My view is that unless the local leadership takes charge and dissuades their followers including the thousands being reported as moving into Burnt Forest, then the governmnet MUST immediately use all the power they have under the LAW to stop these killings. Frankly as of now, I do not care if this included the derogation of constitutional freedoms of the murderers and the invocation of the Preservation of Public Security Act. I do care though, and am weary and wary. The present laws do offer enough leeway to restore some order even without emergency powers, in my opinion. But police must act and not stand aside. While it must be taken into account that police are both under- and over-armed in Kenya (outdated CN teargas, miitary automatic rifles unsuitable for riot control, but not enough water cannons), they may not simpely stand aside while the mob loots and burns (as in Kisumu and Mombasa !). The old Rift Valley violence erupts again. This is not new. The last time, it were (local and national) politicians who planned and fanned the violence, like e.g. Ntimama. They have never been made responsible for their acts, and some - like the aforementioned criminal - have even been re-elected now. Alexander |
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Post by kamalet on Jan 2, 2008 23:26:23 GMT 3
Kipsang,
I cannot imagine that it is okay for women and children to be murdered today since Kamale did not raise a finger when people were killing each other in Mt. Elgon. Two wrongs do not make a right. At the moment, I have never imagined more primitive people than those who killed those women and children.
When like a complete utter idiot you now allege that it was the Mungiki that did this, I no longer think you should be in the midst of any civilised person, for I think people like you belong where monkeys and apes belong - killing each for food.
For those like Adongo that see a political linkage to this atrocity, all I can say is that they surprise me very little. They have no problem with anyone dying in Kisumu, Kuria, Kibera or even the genocide of Eldoret unless it ends up with a rabid Raila as president. I do not think so. Raila will still be what he is today, and Kenya will get over this nonesense. But I can assure you that some people that were at the top of these deaths will pay for it. I am not sure what Kibaki's role is in these deaths.
50 women and children, and especially childred who did not even vote for Kibaki and whose only crime was that they were Kikuyus is nothing to do with Raila and Kibaki fighting for a seat to presidency. I am even MORE CONVINCED that a Raila win would still have led to such genocide in Eldoret. Raila and Ruto whipped up sufficient tribal emotion that all this was inevitable. Perhaps Kenyan thought that we were all a civilised lot, but then we have learnt today.
My hope and prayer is that no other Kenyan will die out of this nonesense. Kenyan are starving in Kibera and other slum areas for the simple reason they leave in fear and also that no food is coming from the agricultural areas into Nairobi. The last few days have been a revelation for Kenya.
As for those economic refugees in the US and Canada who spend all their time postulating on what is good for us and how Raila will save us from Kibaki, my word to you is you either shut up or bring you black asses over to Kenya and we shall show you what it means to be marooned in your house for 3 days waiting for peace to look for food. If you cannot do this, then please leave us alone in our own primitive ways to kill ourselves as we wish.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2008 23:34:54 GMT 3
Are they still celebrating in Meru Kamalet? You still didn't give me the details on how I can join the party. Remember though, that I'd be bringing my Kalenjin and Luo friends and family!!!  |
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Post by kamalet on Jan 2, 2008 23:43:15 GMT 3
Are they still celebrating in Meru Kamalet? You still didn't give me the details on how I can join the party. Remember though, that I'd be bringing my Kalenjin and Luo friends and family!!! I thought you still think of me as a piece of genitalia you did not like, notwithstanding your known preferences? It might just be easier to keep with your Luo and Kalenjin "friends" and family - you then would not have to encounter me. That might be the safe way to keep it. Look and learn madam. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2008 23:49:40 GMT 3
Okay afande why are you here. a site started by a very luo luo? So what are my preferences sweetie? My luo and kalenjin friends are my compatriots and I love them as I do every other Kenyan. How about you Mr. GEMA? And what are your preferences? Be nice and share.  |
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Post by JAHAATWACH on Jan 2, 2008 23:51:34 GMT 3
Oloo, has Jukwaa sank this low? THIS....... Kipsang, ........my word to you is you either shut up or bring you black asses over to Kenya........ AND THEN THIS...... I thought you still think of me as a piece of genitalia you did not like, notwithstanding your known preferences?.
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Post by pippyza on Jan 3, 2008 0:25:12 GMT 3
My condolences to the agrieved families.
Kibaki ordered GSU and other forces to shoot to kill the Kisumu residents. In one day alone, a mortuary reported 45 fresh bodies with gun shots. That is an act of genocide..Other cities/towns including Eldoret is a replicate.
Kenyans are demanding for their rights. More than fifty percent of those who voted feel they were cheated.
Authorities should stop inciting their forces to killing civilians. This way, Kikuyus will also be spared from retaliations.
N/B: Kibaki should resign forthwith for talks to continue
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Post by kipsang on Jan 3, 2008 6:29:40 GMT 3
jahatwach!
Kamale wrote that?
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Post by mzee on Jan 3, 2008 12:28:49 GMT 3
After days of total block out in terms of internet and other forms of communication, I have finally managed to get access to internet. After the election rigging, there has been mayhem all over the place. One particular community has been hit hard and it hurts. I hope that Kibaki has the sense of seeing that this will not lead him anywhere and he therefore needs to take charge. Not by letting the police shoot people randomly as witnessed in kisumu but by calling for dialogue. I did witness horribles scenes in kisumu. My friends brother gunned down by GSU, not because he was demonstrating but because he stood on the balcony watching the GSU passing by. The Kisumu MP elect , shabiir said that he was at the morgue and counted at least 200 bodies with bullet wounds.
I was at the airport yesterday trying to catch a flight to Nairobi from Kisumu. I was so shocked to see hundreds of people camping as refugees there. I could not even get e flight because only certain group of people were being transported as they were target of hate. I dont know when I will return to Europe because there are no flight from ksm at the same time one cannot travel by road.
Lets re-tally to save the situation. Re-tally the presidential vote for violence is gaining a life of its own. Ones it gathers momentum kenya will be up in flames. Let people liek Karua and Awori desist from talking nonsense which inflame people, its the wrong time to incite.
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Post by okhunyanye on Jan 3, 2008 17:08:15 GMT 3
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=TPXZRBII01CO1QFIQMGSFFWAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2008/01/03/wkenya503.xml Can you call the killings in Kenya genocide?By David Blair Last Updated: 9:43am GMT 03/01/2008 President Mwai Kibaki and his challenger, Raila Odinga, have traded accusations of 'genocide'. Are these claims credible?No. International law defines genocide as any action committed "with intent to destroy" an ethnic or religious group. There is no evidence that any Kenyan tribe intends to eliminate another. While the killing is horrendous, it does not remotely reach genocidal proportions. What about the accusations of ethnic cleansing?These are more credible given that tens of thousands of people have been forced to flee their homes. But they will probably try to return when the violence stops. There is no sign of any group systematically carving out an ethnically pure homeland. Because all the tribes are jumbled together, particularly in Kenya's cities, this would probably be impossible anyway. Is there any comparison with the Rwandan genocide of 1994?Only in the sense that ethnic killings are spreading terror across the country. Beyond that, there is no real comparison. About 800,000 people died in Rwanda. The death toll in Kenya is probably about 300.
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Post by japuonjni on Jan 4, 2008 21:05:29 GMT 3
Kamalet,
Do you agree with me that the blood of 300 plus dead Kenyans is in Kibaki's hands because first and foremost he is the C-in-C of Armed Forces and secondly because he took an oath of office to protect lives and property?
Kamalet, don't you find it curious that despite existence of a well-funded NSIS,Kibaki's administration could not pre-empt the genocides?Kamale where was Michuki's kacheros and sub-chief when men,women and children were being burnt in Eldoret church?
Kamale how would one defend the use of live bullets on protesters?Kamale,what would you say to those drawing a link between pre-election's mass purchase of pangas with this evidence
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Post by pippyza on Jan 5, 2008 3:43:47 GMT 3
That´s a good proposal for peace. Kibaki has killed enough of Kenyans now.. What happened in Eldoret is nothing short of genocide. I choked up when I read it. I can not believe you my fellow Kenyans, you are still debating who said what to whom? People are being massacred and someone is calling for more state led violence in the name of peace and order. NO! NO! What is needed is for ODM and the government to go to these areas and talk to the people. As Adongo said in another thread, this is the time for ODM in particular, to lead from the front. The government should allow them to go their areas of influence and calm down the people. With the spilt blood, I would call upon the President to own up and resign for the sake of peace and a re-run of Presidential elections presided by an interim government. |
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Post by wakwitu on Jan 5, 2008 8:21:53 GMT 3
What has happened in Kenya is going to take generations to change, particularly in the rural areas. If I was a Kikuyu parent and my std. 8 student had chosen Maseno there is no way I would even think of him going to that school. Will the GEMA Moi university students report back and if they do will they able to walk around town without being targeted? If was a Kalenjin teacher and I was posted to Murang'a - I would rather sell mitumba than go. People, we have changed dramatically the ethnic compositions of regions and the freedom of movements patterns in a just one week!! If you are Luo travelling thorigh Karatina - you better shut up and it better be in good company. What of people who intermarried - wher do they choose to live? What assurances are there for safety?
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We have messed up our country, thanks to Kibaki and our own ethnic baggage. It really saddens me. Life in the city might go on but life in the rural areas has changed dramatically especilly for our fellow GEMA brothers and sisters who tend to live and do business
among other communites...and that is the ugly truth.
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The other issue no one is addressing: WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO RESETTLE ALL OUR FELLOW KENYANS? I know it sounds crass but the reality is that the most uprooted community has been Kikuyus - what does the government do with them? As we talk, those who were victimss of Moi's ethnic cleansing are still in camps or homeless. Central Province is out of question because the land distribtuion is so uneven with few individuals owning huge tracts of land.
Many who settled in RV have no immediate roots in Central Province [Read Tabitha Kanogo]
So I ask again, what are they going to do with 75,000 homeless Kikuyu brothers & sisters?
Today on KTN the government started dumping them at Nakuru showground
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