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Post by wanjeeqoo on Feb 8, 2008 13:14:10 GMT 3
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Post by wakwitu on Feb 8, 2008 19:03:36 GMT 3
This made my day!! All of them are losers. Remeber those arrogant statements Maanzo was making that he was the first MP and Julia is worthless politically, as for Judas - well I will not even go there.
By the way, what if Maanzo bolts with the license again, does that mean he is partyless?
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2008 19:55:27 GMT 3
This is funny. Maanzo and Julia forgot the old adage that there is no honour among thieves. They can raid a bank and rob tons of money with great risks to all of them then they go back to their hideout and there is a shootout to share the spoils. Now Maanzo realizes stealing the certificate for Kalonzo was the easy part. Getting his cut is not happening. In fact he has been cut off.
The only silver lining for them is that Kalonzo may very well get the exact same treatment from Kibaki once he passes his use by date. The PNU political thieves may soon have little use for Kalonzo who helped them carry the heist home. We warned him to stay neutral and demand a stake for his party and his supporters at the negotiation table not in shady deals with Kibaki. He never listened. Now he is in the US trying to prop up Kibaki and the dude is making deals at home which don't seem to include him.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2008 20:10:55 GMT 3
By the way I think the ODM should adopt a Kalonzo friendly attitude. Let bygones be bygones. The two ODM's could make a formidable body in Bunge.
After the dust settles with whatever deals they make the final Katiba battle where majimbo will be of the sticking points, ODM and ODM Kenya will need to work together for the most part. They both supported some form of majimbo. Kofi Annan's deal will leave it to the Kenyan parliament and public to decide that. They may set up a raodmap towards that but these things will be fought out in Bunge and outside.
That is why I think the ODM should adopt a Kalonzo friendly approach and even set up formal networks with them. The battle a head is not a joke. The rattle snakes may coil back to their nest in the face of danger but they will come out again when the horizon looks safer. The nation has to be ready with a big stick to whack it back to the nest so we can complete this phase of the battle safely.
adongo
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Post by wakwitu on Feb 8, 2008 20:21:22 GMT 3
AO:
WHAT? Did you just not call him a thief and assorted other not so pleasant names? I know you do not have political analyst's split personality - you are always lucid and steadfast.
My answer = NO WAY!!
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Post by gakungu on Feb 8, 2008 20:26:52 GMT 3
AO,
I concur with Wakwitu.
No way. Judas escariot must be avoided like plague. I have no apologies by saying this.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2008 21:16:08 GMT 3
AO, I concur with Wakwitu. No way. Judas escariot must be avoided like plague. I have no apologies by saying this. I have no patience with Kalonzo trust me. In fact we would not be in this mess as a country if Kalonzo did not mess the party that Kenyans had built together and go fo his solo run. But in parliament there are going to be interesting developments. Kofi Annan will make the political deals mainly for short and medium term solutions. That is the best he can do. The Kofi Annan team cannot determine for Kenyans what the ultimate constitution which could take up to a year to get will look like. What the Kofi Annan Committee will do is to set the roadmap for that process and get a commitment from both sides that they will make it a reality. So in terms a new constitution which we all agree will be along the Bomas Draft, it might help the ODM to win the support of ODM K. In reality some key leaders in ODM K were very prominent in defending the Bomas Draft. In fact Mutula Kilonzo was one of the ideologues of the Bomas Draft where he worked very closely with Ruto. Musila was there too. Also we know ODM K was part of the anti-Wako Draft. So my take here is that on an issue like the constitution there is no need to antogonize ODM K. Kibaki is going to be under obligation to move the process forward, but he can still frustrate the process with delays and obstructions in parliament. Political allignment with ODM K is another matter. There I agree with you both. But ODM has to be able to approach things issue by issue and we may end up solving things very fast. Anyway we will see what Annan come with next week. adongo |
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 8, 2008 21:59:12 GMT 3
Overtures to judas KM by ODM is a tough call, but I guess it has to be made. For the constitution to be altered MPs but set the ball rolling by altering the document then take the document to the public for ratification.
The events of the last 4-5 weeks have clearly illustrated the need of a constitutional overhaul and I just wonder who will be against the Bomas draft after the mayhem and death occasioned by the stolen election.
I guess the issue of the Bomas draft must be one that they are adressing with Kofi Annan, after dealing with the short term issue of the election and its disastrous aftermath.
What the PNU negotiation team make up tells me is that KM has little input and is a peripheral player despite Kilonzo being there. He projects such an aura of a clueless subservient pawn in the larger scheme of things. That realization may push him to adopt a very hawkish pro PNU obstructionist posture, both to shore up his relevancy and endear himself to the Gema masses thus ending up diluting the Bomas draft as per PNU wishes.
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Post by wakwitu on Feb 8, 2008 22:12:42 GMT 3
AO, Question: What's in it for ODM-K? We have a golden chance to break from the obtuse politics of “horse trading”, why would we want to go back to the dark days that contributed to the bloodshed? If it means using people power to bring about BOMAS constitutional changes so be it, but no compromising and cajoling those who have betrayed the people wishes.
Also ODM-k has not shown that they would oppose a constitutional reform, so why seduce them now?
We are at a point in Kenya where we have a chance to bring about radical changes to the body politic or be forever mirred in politics of status quo. ODM can not therefore afford to make short term political marriages at the expense of creating a true democratic culture for the future.
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Post by wakwitu on Feb 8, 2008 22:18:15 GMT 3
PM:
I am writing without the benefit of seeing the deal being brokered, I would think that once the deal is taken to parliament, the govt. side including ODM-K has to go by the agreement or else they will face the international music, so why are we talking about making overtures to Judas, for what I am sure would be part of the deal?
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Post by merkeju on Feb 8, 2008 22:26:02 GMT 3
the biggest mistake ODM will do is to go into the government with the same constitution and kibaki as the president,he will still have all the powes to appoint and sack however he wants after annan has left and by that time he would consolidate his power in military and police with his tribesmen.
we should learn from history,Moi became worse after 1982 attempted coup and the rest is well known.let do amendments to the old constitution and allow part of bomas draft which deals with executive to be implemented first before ODM forms any kind of government with kibaki.
lets not talk of kalonzo and ODM kenya,they are irrelevant in any deal.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2008 22:51:08 GMT 3
AO, Question: What's in it for ODM-K? We have a golden chance to break from the obtuse politics of “horse trading”, why would we want to go back to the dark days that contributed to the bloodshed? If it means using people power to bring about BOMAS constitutional changes so be it, but no compromising and cajoling those who have betrayed the people wishes. Also ODM-k has not shown that they would oppose a constitutional reform, so why seduce them now? We are at a point in Kenya where we have a chance to bring about radical changes to the body politic or be forever mirred in politics of status quo. ODM can not therefore afford to make short term political marriages at the expense of creating a true democratic culture for the future. wakwitu What is in it for ODM K? Political relevance. There is nothing that scares the crap out of politicians like being irrelevant. Also ODM K has people like Mutula Kilonzo who is a devious political turncoat but ask anybody who was at Bomas particularly at the Executive Committee they will tell you there was nobody more dedicated from the LDP/Kanu team than Mr. Kilonzo. He had to face off with Kiraitu who gate crushed there even though he was not a member of that group. They had Muite in there and Njoki Ndugu with Saitoti. Even Koigi gate crashed there and was very aggresive. I laughed my head off one day when some kawaida delegates ordered Saitoti to sit down with shouts of "Kaa chini profesa". The professor couldn't believe that some ordinary Kenyan woman from Bungoma would order him to shit down and shut up because he had already spoken. Anyhow the Bomas required thinking on your feet and making amendments to motions on the run. The LDP/Kanu had Kilonzo, Kajwang as lawyers and one had to build support on the floor. Most delegates wer every open minded and had be convinced with solid arguments while they should support this or that motion. My point here is that yes, ODM K already said they support the Katiba and I also suspect the PNU are going to make a clear commitment that they will not sabotage the process. I suspect that is what Annan meant by saying that finding a lasting solution will be within a year. Also I agree with you that Kenyans need to take this opportunity to get away from the parochial politics of deals and negotiations done in darkness to straight forward open and transparent actions for the good of the country. The trouble though is that politics is a game of numbers. Everywhere in the world that is just what it is. Even though all sides are going to agree on a new constitution with vague worlds like devolution, disbursing power away from one office and all that, the problem usually comes when they draft it. Even if the Bomas Draft is passed over to a Parliamentary Committee, they are going to redo it. At every stage of the process it is going to be a battle. What we need is a large body of non partisan M.P's who will come to Kenyans and say we are ready to do what is good for this country and forget the political parties in this effort. If that were to happen I would be the first to celebrate but I know it is going to take a solid body of M.P's fully supportuve of a good new katiba to neutralize the sabotuers. They will not give up the war against the Bomas Draft Constitution. It is even a bigger issue to some than the presidential elections. That is why I am saying a more accomodating approach from the ODM which is the force behind Bomas may win the some friends when they need them in Bunge. I think an ODM/ODM K consitutional change block that can attract more of the independent small party types will help build a solid base to complete the constitutional reforms in record. The Kibaki hawks in parliament have to be isolated for this process to move smoothly. Ultimately what will save our country is the new constitution all these other temporary arrangements are only good to the extent that the help bring that new katiba asap. Also remember the bigger task for ODM on the Katiba front is to build an alliance with all the democratic and civil society groups to energize a groundswell of support for the Bomas Draft. Luckily there is a higher level of awareness and concern for a new constitution in the country more than at any other time. Unfortunately the thing has to pass through our crazy Bunge before it goes to the referendum. adongo PS Yes the deal may make it an obligation for each party to go along but the way they do these things is for example saying "We will facilitate a new constitution with devolved powers to the regions" How those powers are devolved will remain for Kenyans to decide. Same way Kibaki said the Wako Draft devolves powers and ODM said only the Bomas Draft devolves powers. That is where parliament comes in. Anyway I think we all too eager and may be should wait and see what comes up. |
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2008 23:01:11 GMT 3
the biggest mistake ODM will do is to go into the government with the same constitution and kibaki as the president,he will still have all the powes to appoint and sack however he wants after annan has left and by that time he would consolidate his power in military and police with his tribesmen. we should learn from history,Moi became worse after 1982 attempted coup and the rest is well known.let do amendments to the old constitution and allow part of bomas draft which deals with executive to be implemented first before ODM forms any kind of government with kibaki. lets not talk of kalonzo and ODM kenya,they are irrelevant in any deal. Agreed. I think that is what we may see next week. They will have some laws passed to provide some executive authority to ODM but I suspect they will do it in such away that once a new constitution is enacted the arrangement is dead too. Which is normal because the new constitution will be in place and it will provide for the transition system as well The bigger battle is what that new constitution will be. adongo |
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Post by wakwitu on Feb 8, 2008 23:08:54 GMT 3
Truce....tungojee tuone, we are ahead of ourselves here, although there is nothing wrong with anticipatory thinking.
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Post by job on Feb 8, 2008 23:32:08 GMT 3
Maanzo and Ojiambo got exacty what they purchased.
Let Maanzo take back his certificate, Kalonzo is now "safe" in PNU's house.
As for Ojiambo, it must be hard being rejected by your electorate,...then being rejected by a "trusted" ally that nominated you as a running mate. Let her also take her party (LPK) back and keep one lesson, all Kalonzo cares about is his own upward poitical mobility and no one else,.....even if he is climbing the walls of a fire pit.
Maanzo & Julia need to appreciate the art of use and dump.
Kalonzo Musyoka has entered the same history books which teach us that those bought as sycophants-in-chiefs by Kibaki,...as part of his dirty divide-and-rule schemes,........like Kombo, Awori, Nyachae, Mukhisa Kituyi & Kipruto Kirwa......all eventually end up in political dustbins.
Like the once affable and liked Moody Awori, who compromised any principles he purported to stand for, when he gleefully (but obliviously) entered Kibaki's house of deceit (as Vice President) ......... and was eventually decimated, loosing national credibility and not surprisingly, even local grassroots support at his own Funyula constituency. He rests in political siberia today,.....used and dumped.
Kalonzo awaits the same treatment,.......and when it comes,.......no sympathy will come from the same constituents he now betrays in his short-sighted appetite. Kalonzo has reached his political terrminal. A VP in an illegitimate and discredited outfit.
I strongly differ with Adongo's preposition that ODM needs to woo Kalonzo and ODM-K to work on the Bomas constitution agenda.
With all due respect AO, for Kalonzo to remain useful to Kibaki, he must play the sycophancy and apologist role EFFECTIVELY.
That you have seen him attempt to do at all cost. Trooping to foreign capitals, suffering humiliation....and eroding his own profile .....all in the name of trying to defend the indefensible Kibaki.
Kalonzo's sidekicks,....Mutula Kilonzo and Johnstone Muthama have all shown indications they have no contradictions or apologies to make about happily joining Kibaki. They will faithfully and loyally advance Kibaki's agenda which is at cross-purpose with majority citizens concerns, especialy with regard to the constitution.
Kibaki's agenda is to consolidate power. Kalonzo and company are there to help him do exactly that. The Bomas draft that Kalonzo & ODM-K once supported, does the very opposite of that Kibaki-agenda.
The Bomas draft in fact transfers significant executive power to the Prime Minister's office. It infact proposes a parliamentary system of governance, where the party commanding majority seats (read ODM) assumes power.
To assume that Kalonzo & ODM-K will support the Bomas draft now, as the illegitimate Veep of Kibaki and water down the powers of the Presidency is actually far fetched.
To assume that Kalonzo will uphold certain principles and stick to his referendum NO stand, is asking for too much, knowing his history of spinelessness.
To expect that Kalonzo (& ODM-K) will cooperate with ODM in a constitutional reform cause would thus be an act of political naivety. ODM must not enter into traps promising false hopes. ODM need not waste its time, burning energy in missions destined into cul-de-sacs.
Kalonzo naively assumes he will inherit a political constituency from Kibaki. He may not even SEE the folks in PNU on who's toes he is already stepping.
When Kenya needed Kalonzo to stand for the truth, however bitter it was,...he betrayed them,.....and opted to join the deceitful house of Kibaki. The same Kenyans will never forget that.
Constitution change we will get,.....but not through wooing Kalonzo and ODM-K.
Job.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 9, 2008 0:33:11 GMT 3
I think reality will sink in and MPs will have little choice but to really overhaul the constitution in preparation for ratification.
The MPs know, after the post electoral violence that saw even kipkorios's house burnt down, that Kenyans want change, real change and not peicemeal changes.
Wenye nchi now now have a dry run, of how to achieve political results via civil disobedience and violence if need be. They know they have the upper hand in moving their agenda and recalcitrant and retrogressive politicians will be offloaded chap chap as we march along.
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Post by JAHAATWACH on Feb 9, 2008 0:34:21 GMT 3
Wanjeeqo, please permit me to say the following:
I have learnt never to under rate Kalonzo his foibles not withstanding.
Indeed I am strongly persuaded that he is the man to watch. We laughed him off with his "Kibaki aki simama upande huu na Raila Upande huu, mimi Kalonzo nitapita Kati kati ..."
His supporters may point out rightly or wrongly that the fact that he found his way into the Vice-Presidency while Raila is technically the Official Leader of Opposition and Kibaki is the President is in itself a vindication of his weird prophecy while back.
Now that he is in the Kati kati, I wont be surprised if this conniving,wily and stubbornly ambitious man "miraculously" conspires with Kenya's destiny and pitias between Raila and Kibaki to become the fourth president of Kenya.
He has disgusted his swelling rank of critics before and is seemingly determined to disapprove my type who have no time for him
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Post by JAHAATWACH on Feb 9, 2008 1:07:23 GMT 3
"...Vice-President Kalonzo Musyoka told US officials that a power-sharing arrangement “is not a panacea” for Kenya’s crisis. Mr Musyoka told the Nation on Thursday that he conveyed that message in meetings with John Negroponte, the State Department’s second-highest ranking official, and with Ms Frazer." www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?category_id=1&newsid=116451In other words, kalonzo is opposed to Kibaki-Raila sharing power. His arguement? That it will be a setback to multy party democracy? |
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Post by job on Feb 9, 2008 2:47:22 GMT 3
First of all let's make this clear, Kalonzo went back home without securing OFFICIAL meetings with senior State Department Officials to discuss the Kenyan crisis.....who made it clear that they wouldn't wish to hold parrallel negotiations in Washington as Kofi Annan mediates the real stalemate in Nairobi.
Something about Negroponte.......Kalonzo needs to know....the former is predominantly preoccupied by counter-terrorism intelligence and security aspects of the State Department and will be a good passive listener who will not interfere with portfolios of colleagues within the same Department.
As for Frazer,....the State Department spokesman Mr. McCormack could'nt hide his own frustrations with the lady.
Incompetence comes in many shades, ....after realizing she was duped by the Kibaki folks in a skewed PR game which challenged her credibility....and brought forth another argument chiding cronysm rife in the Bush administration (Condoleeza was her provost at Stanford, they are both senior blacks in the department),...... she is too cautious to take sides now.
Kalonzo has shown his knack for being economical in truths. After Amb. Rannenberger
told him off for falsely suggesting that he was going to the UK and US to " officially brief" their capitals on the situation in Nairobi,.....(State Dept. clarified that they did not invite Kalonzo, ...and were fully supporting Kofi Annan).
Kalonzo is now again, budgeting truths in his high falutin' wisdom about ...."meeting" with senior Sate Dept officials and TELLING THEM that "power sharing is not panacea to Kenya's crisis"...... the very kinds of statements which Kofi Annan warned could jeopardize progress on the talks.
Making phone calls and bumping into folks in casual gatherings is not synonymous with MEETINGS. Worse, using their names in public media to advance shallow agendas is something Kalonzo will indeed regret. He woud be better sticking to generalities like,..."I met US officials etc etc".
These US officials may have to brief local and international press next week, clarifying issues about reports regarding MEETINGS outside Kofi Annan's platform that seem to introduce extraneous contentions that ultimately undercut Kofi's efforts....orchestrated right in the corridors of State department, Washington DC. Watch this space.
Using either gullible or complicit Kenyan media, Kalonzo is trying to falsely turn this PRIVATE visit (at tax payers expense) to arm-twist and advance his own personal and selfish interests right at the center of Kofi's negotiation table.
In a nutshell, Kalonzo fully endorses the stealing of elections in Kibaki's favour and wishes things stay that way........as if that gives him any political edge towards a future presidency.....as if he will somehow inherit Kibaki's political constituency......as we speak today, Kalonzo has lost any remnant & little political support in at least six provinces in Kenya.
In informal discussions with Frazer,.....and a very brief introduction to Negroponte, Kalonzo made it clear his sole mission in Washington was to infact scuttle the Kofi Annan talks,....to throw spanners into the works so to speak.
All his moves will be countered at the very corridors of the State Department,...and he may infact hear from the State Department soon.
Cognisant of the fact that Kalonzo's biggest spanner sits at the very Kofi Annan's negotiation table in Mutula Kilonzo,.....you get to appreciate the various disparate forces working against the Kofi Annan talks.
If there is to be any official whose travel visa to the West needs to be cancelled, for sabotaging Kofi Annan's talks,....then Kalonzo Musyoka and Mutula Kilonzo precisely fit the bill....with documentary evidence publicly available.
As one of the folks who have made numerous trips into the halls and offices of the State Department,...........I can tell you without contradiction that the whole idea of "power sharing" emanated from the same corridors of that very State Department even before being pronounced first by the British & EU.
While I don't principally agree with their argument tying peace and stability to power sharing,.....they are adamant in their propositions,.....for reasons that largely work towards their own interests....I'll not bother to delve into that......
The peope they had in mind in that power sharing arrangement are Kibaki and Raila. They appreciate that constitutional reforms are needed to usher such deals. That's why State Department has insisted on constitution reforms to back the Kofi talks.
To debunk Kalonzo's silly arguments,...... If governments of national unity (sharing power) are setbacks to multiparty democracy, what is Kalonzo and ODM-K doing in Kibaki's illegitimate "unity" government?
Job
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 9, 2008 2:50:19 GMT 3
So he knows what does not or may not be a panacea. Does he have a suggestion to make?
this guy is one empty suit, with an mind to match.
I am still waiting for his dossier on R, the one promised to the public while in kisii campaigning, outlining how R stole this and that.
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Post by wakwitu on Feb 9, 2008 4:37:20 GMT 3
Job:
First of all I have to pay homage to your vigilance and the work you have done about the issue.
I could not agree more about Kalonzo's visit. When the word got out that he was coming - the embassy rescheduled his itinerary and then put out false info. that he was cutting his trip short. Anyhow, we were prepared for him and made sure the word got around. The result has been a pathetic attempt at being relevant, he has not talked to any one of significance. The most important happenings in the US capitol this week on Kenya were the 2 hearings.
And thank God for two people, one Congressman Payne - he minced no words and questioned the US rush to recognize Kibaki. The second person who made me feel proud about being Kenyan was Kiai. Here is someone who has gone against the grain from the start and called it as he sees it. So by the time Kalonzo was appearing on the scene - the tone of the discourse had been set.
I can not believe I actually supported this character. I feel seriously betrayed. It is only a matter of time before he is shoved aside like Awori.
As for Maanzo -I can not stop laughing!! What sweet justice!
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Post by wanjeeqoo on Feb 9, 2008 20:49:09 GMT 3
www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?category_id=2&newsid=116445www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?category_id=24&newsid=116439I think somebody ought to remind Maanzo that he was actually used to steal ODM-K. It was actually not his party. We still remember how one Lawyer Ms. Janet Ongera on behalf of ODM leaders approached the three i.e Daniel Maanzo and her two employees Chepkonga and Lilian Alunga to lend their names and signatures to be used in the application for registration. It is public knowledge that the founding members of ODM-Kenya were the founders of a political constellation known under the ODM banner. Maanzo needs to grow up and realize that while he may have been the registered chairman of ODM-K, he can not claim ownership of the party in toto. Kenyans and their leaders actually trooped to Sheria house in September 2006 and literally forced an otherwise regisrar to register ODM-K. www.eastandard.net/archives/cl/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143957842&date=6/09/2006www.google.co.ke/search?hl=en&q=Sheria+House+ODM-K+registration&btnG=Google+SearchBut he Maanzo later teamed up with Janet Ongera's driver Chepkonga and Lilian Alunga to rob the party from Kenyans and hand it over to Judas Isacriot (J.I.) aka "Stevo". Kenyans will never forget this selfish action by Maanzo who by then was a very promising young leader. To agree to be used by J.I to usurp the prople's party was a miscalculation on his part. And as for Julia, her political future was very promising as the Leader of LPK untill she ditched the mainsream party for "Stevo". It still beats me what language Stevo used to woo Julia to his side. You can only imagine where Julia could be today if she had stuck with the mainstream ODM. Now she has only herself to blame and I dont even think the courts will help them on this one. Me thinks the people of Funyula wouldlike this woman should join Moody Awori in retirement and leave her daughter Josephine Ojiambo to wade the murky waters that is Kenyan politics. Otherwise by teaming up with Maanzo to sue Kalonzo over party nominations, Julia is exposing herself to public ridicule because very few kenyans will simpathyse with those two on this case no matter how deserving and justified they may be. What makes her think parliament is in dire need of people like her. In fact most people discussing this latest development have been shedding tears of laughter rather than sympathy. And as for Maanzo, I wish you luck in your ourt case, but remember the saying "asiyefunzwa na mamamye hufunzwa na ulimwengu"
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Post by enigma on Feb 11, 2008 17:04:25 GMT 3
AO, I concur with Wakwitu. No way. Judas escariot must be avoided like plague. I have no apologies by saying this. I have no patience with Kalonzo trust me. In fact we would not be in this mess as a country if Kalonzo did not mess the party that Kenyans had built together and go fo his solo run. But in parliament there are going to be interesting developments. Kofi Annan will make the political deals mainly for short and medium term solutions. That is the best he can do. The Kofi Annan team cannot determine for Kenyans what the ultimate constitution which could take up to a year to get will look like. What the Kofi Annan Committee will do is to set the roadmap for that process and get a commitment from both sides that they will make it a reality. So in terms a new constitution which we all agree will be along the Bomas Draft, it might help the ODM to win the support of ODM K. In reality some key leaders in ODM K were very prominent in defending the Bomas Draft. In fact Mutula Kilonzo was one of the ideologues of the Bomas Draft where he worked very closely with Ruto. Musila was there too. Also we know ODM K was part of the anti-Wako Draft. So my take here is that on an issue like the constitution there is no need to antogonize ODM K. Kibaki is going to be under obligation to move the process forward, but he can still frustrate the process with delays and obstructions in parliament. Political allignment with ODM K is another matter. There I agree with you both. But ODM has to be able to approach things issue by issue and we may end up solving things very fast. Anyway we will see what Annan come with next week. adongo Adongo is this not the attitude adopted by Raila in the earlier days? Questions were raised about Ruto's past but Raila's consorts said that Ruto was needed to rope the RV vote both referendum and elections and then his fate would be known later. Now he is indispensable; his baggage (YK92 and other scandals including corruption and the recent ethnic cleansing) notwithstanding. |
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 11, 2008 21:50:26 GMT 3
wakwitu and gakunguI have no patience with Kalonzo trust me. In fact we would not be in this mess as a country if Kalonzo did not mess the party that Kenyans had built together and go for his solo run. But in parliament there are going to be interesting developments. Kofi Annan will make the political deals mainly for short and medium term solutions. That is the best he can do. The Kofi Annan team cannot determine for Kenyans what the ultimate constitution which could take up to a year to get will look like. What the Kofi Annan Committee will do is to set the roadmap for that process and get a commitment from both sides that they will make it a reality. So in terms a new constitution which we all agree will be along the Bomas Draft, it might help the ODM to win the support of ODM K. In reality some key leaders in ODM K were very prominent in defending the Bomas Draft. In fact Mutula Kilonzo was one of the ideologues of the Bomas Draft where he worked very closely with Ruto. Musila was there too. Also we know ODM K was part of the anti-Wako Draft. So my take here is that on an issue like the constitution there is no need to antagonize ODM K. Kibaki is going to be under obligation to move the process forward, but he can still frustrate the process with delays and obstructions in parliament. Political alignment with ODM K is another matter. There I agree with you both. But ODM has to be able to approach things issue by issue and we may end up solving things very fast. Anyway we will see what Annan come with next week. adongo Adongo is this not the attitude adopted by Raila in the earlier days? Questions were raised about Ruto's past but Raila's consorts said that Ruto was needed to rope the RV vote both referendum and elections and then his fate would be known later. Now he is indispensable; his baggage (YK92 and other scandals including corruption and the recent ethnic cleansing) notwithstanding. I don't understand what you are talking about. You say "questions were raised about Ruto's past". Who raised the questions and when? Any evidence of these big questions being raised would be welcome. Then you say "Raila's consorts said that Ruto was needed to rope the RV vote both referendum". When did this happen? Is Ruto not a Kenyan like anybody else? Didn't even Moi and Kalonzo including Uhuru oppose Kibaki's failed constitutional coup and join the NO campaign? Why the emphasis on Ruto? Is Ruto "indispensable"? In my mind nobody in Kenyan politics is indispensable, not even Kibaki as you can readily see. adongo |
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 11, 2008 22:50:19 GMT 3
What PNUists never want is a strong, incorruptible leader from other communities, like R or Ruto. Leaders who stand on principle and are brave enough to call out the PNU BullSh!t.
They love the pliant butt crack licking 'leaders' like tuju or my hommie the discombobulated one kombo. Those types they adore.
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