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Post by denno on Feb 8, 2008 16:56:06 GMT 3
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080208/ap_on_re_af/kenya_election_violence;_ylt=Aoxrb_G0GRuucshLv0Mb3Zus0NUENAIROBI, Kenya - Kenya's ruling party and opposition have agreed to form a joint government in an effort to end the bloodshed that has engulfed the country since the disputed Dec. 27 presidential election, an opposition lawmaker said Friday. ADVERTISEMENT The two sides were still discussing who would lead the government and what roles each party would play. "We have finally agreed there is a problem in the country and neither side can proceed on its own," said William Rutto, a lawmaker from the opposition Orange Democractic Movement. "We have agreed to form a joint government. Details of that government, its time and how to share it are under discussions." There was no immediate comment from the government or President Mwai Kibaki's Party of National Unity. But former U.N. chief Kofi Annan, who is heading talks aimed at resolving the crisis, was expected to make a statement later Friday. Word of the power-sharing government came hours after Kibaki said he was "committed" to the negotiations. Speaking at a prayer meeting in Nairobi, Kibaki said he was "encouraged" by progress in talks and reiterated "my personal support and that of my entire government to this process." More than 1,000 people have been killed and 300,000 driven from their homes in fighting that has often pitted many of the East African country's myriad ethnic groups against one another. International and domestic observers have heavily criticized the vote tallying process and the head of the electoral commission has publicly said he does not know who won the election
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2008 17:18:16 GMT 3
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Post by JAHAATWACH on Feb 8, 2008 17:24:27 GMT 3
Denno,
Take this to the bank.
This boardroom deal will go with the wind especially if there is no cast iron guarantee of enactment of a new constitution(read Bomas Draft) that Kibaki has upto now not talked about.
I am sceptical.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 8, 2008 17:27:04 GMT 3
Before seeing this post I was going to ask wether you guys/gals were having this feeling that the gen kegs illegal Govt was riding out the crises?
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Post by denno on Feb 8, 2008 17:27:11 GMT 3
My only hope is that no matter what arrangement they have it has to (I) bring forth a new constitution and (II) allow for a new presidential election before 2012.
Whoever heads the Government has to have the goodwill of the Kenyan people. Fraudulent leadership can not be justified by boardroom deals.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2008 17:42:35 GMT 3
There is no alternative to constitutional reforms. Even an interim government is not provided for in our constitution. So the first order of business would be to enact the deal into the constitution of Kenya. I suspect parliament will be called back ASAP. The ODM will not agree to boardroom deals with no constitutional guarantees.
The main piece to me would be comprehensive constitutional reform package. I suspect we will start from the Bomas Draft with amendments that as usual will bring the swords out. But Kibaki already had a shot at the Katiba with the Wako BS which Kenyans rejected. I suspect that the ODM would want to have a clear deal that the constitutional reforms will be based on the Bomas Draft but they have to allow for amendments as agreed upon by Kenyans.
At the end of the day many Kenyans have now realized we would have avoided a lot of problems if we went with the Bomas Katiba that was thoroughly discussed and agreed on by delegates.
It took many deaths and close to 1 million displaced Kenyan and of course bombing out the economy to get there but I am confident that is where this thing is going.
But we will wait for the details. I am sure the whole country is. Some Kibaki diehards must be pissing on themselves with rage, but everybody will have to calm down. Both sides are conceding ground. That is a good thing.
This is still going to be a tough battle to get a final deal. These people know once you sign the deal you cannot undo it. So we should expect a flurry of attempts by the status quo types to swing this thing their way. The ODM has to hold fort or come for reenforcements from the masses if need be. One way or the other we need a solution pronto.
adongo
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 8, 2008 18:20:08 GMT 3
ODM must have a few NON negotiable points of discussion amongst them, a new Katiba, reconstituted ECK, and new elections IN DUE COURSE.
I wonder what judas KM is thinking, as he seems to be out of the loop
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Post by dola121945 on Feb 8, 2008 18:23:50 GMT 3
It has just been reported that there was no deal, I thought that we were getting somewhere but I guess we will have to wait just a little bit before something gives, it is actually happening so it won't be that long I hope.ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gBIDeJIBMBB-NnsbjcRMrkftV-awNo peace deal in Kenya, says Annan 11 minutes ago Former UN chief Kofi Annan, who is mediating talks between Kenya's political rivals, has said that reports of a power-sharing agreement aimed at ending weeks of bloodshed are premature. "I sincerely hope we will complete our work by early next week," Mr Annan said. But a statement by an opposition MP that a deal had been reached "was jumping the gun", he said. Earlier, William Rutto, from the opposition Orange Democratic Movement said: "We have finally agreed there is a problem in the country and neither side can proceed on its own." He added: "We have agreed to form a joint government (with President Mwai Kibaki). Details of that government, its time and how to share it are under discussions." Opposition leader Raila Odinga has retreated from earlier calls for Mr Kibaki to step down over the disputed presidential election in December. "We are saying that we are willing to give and take. Initially our stand was that we won the elections, and Mr Kibaki lost the elections, he should resign, and we should be sworn in, but we have said that we are not static on that point," Mr Odinga said. Speaking at a prayer meeting in Nairobi before the power sharing agreement was revealed, Mr Kibaki said he was "encouraged" by progress in talks and reiterated "my personal support and that of my entire government to this process." He added that "those who mastermind or engage in acts of violence will pay for their criminal activities." The violence that erupted in the wake of the election that the opposition accuses Mr Kibaki of stealing has already displaced around 300,000 people and claimed over 1,000 lives. Around 5,000 people fled a makeshift camp for those displaced by the violence in the western town of Kericho, fearing trouble ahead of the funeral for an opposition MP killed last week. Only about 1,000 people were left in the camp, said Red Cross official Susan Onyango. Then again if you read what was reported earlier there seems to have been a change somewhere, if these earlier reports are anything to go by...this is causing some confusion to say the least!english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/40824002-25B1-4CDB-8BAB-19D18437827C.htm'Breakthrough' in Kenyan talks Mwai Kibaki, the Kenyan President and Raila Odinga, the opposition leader have achieved a "breakthrough" in their dispute over the December 27 election, local media and a source close to the talks said on Friday. The political crisis led to riots and ethnic attacks that killed more than one thousand people and displaced hundreds of thousands. "Yes, it's a big one. Kofi Annan will come out soon and tell you all about it," the source said. Seperately, Mutula Kilonzo, a member of the government's negotiating team said on Friday that a solution was imminent. "It is not complete yet, but the progress is excellent", Kilonzo said. "I am 1,000 percent confident we are going to bring the country a solution to the present situation," he added. Kofi Annan, the former United Nations chief, who is leading the mediation between Kibaki and Odinga told BBC radio he was not ready to contemplate failure. "I'm not ready to give up now…We cannot afford to fail," he said. Noting signs of compromise he said, "They will have to shift. They will shift." Negotiators for Kibaki and Odinga have quickly agreed on principles to end the violence and help refugees, but they have yet to agree on the issue of who won the election and what should happen next. Both sides have accused each other of rigging the December vote. Humanitarian crisis Meanwhile, Doctors Without Borders (MSF) said on Friday that Kenya could face face food shortages and a breakdown of health services in the coming months. Filipe Ribeiro, MSF's emergency aid coordinator for Kenya, told news agencies that the displacement of Kenyan’s will have an impact on both urban and rural areas. "The fact that people are pouring into slums where the population already is struggling to cope will cause a big problem for food security in urban areas," Ribeiro said. "We will be closely watching the food situation in the months to come," he said. He noted that no work is being done in the fields of Western Kenya during planting season. He recalled that during similar upheaval in 1992, it took three years to "bring to an end displacements, camps and resettlements" across the country. He noted that during the 1992 upheval in Kenya it took three years to bring an end to displacement, camps and resettlements across the country. But reading this and the reports that came out earlier, I really wonder it there was actually a breakthrough and then someone changed their minds???
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Post by eosir on Feb 8, 2008 18:34:35 GMT 3
NAIROBI, Kenya - "Former U.N. chief Kofi Annan, who is mediating talks between Kenya's political rivals, said Friday that claims of a power-sharing agreement aimed at ending weeks of postelection bloodshed were premature".
Translation: "NO DEAL YET!!"
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2008 18:37:23 GMT 3
ODM must have a few NON negotiable points of discussion amongst them, a new Katiba, reconstituted ECK, and new elections IN DUE COURSE. I wonder what judas KM is thinking, as he seems to be out of the loop He is in the US urging the US government to force the ODM to seek redress in court. I think he has not received the memo yet. Kalonzo knows a deal between ODM and Kibaki makes him politically irrelevant. If ODM and PNU M.P's are willing to push through bills in parliament that are good for the country and will abandon their partisan interests to resolve the political crisis then Kalonzo's 15 M.P's mean nothing to anybody and will go along with the rest. As for the deal I think the consultations are going to be furious over the weekend within each side defining their basic minimums. Th good news is that both sides seem to be resigned to the fact that it is going to be a real give and take, not the usual "give I take" philosophy of Kibaki. I suspect they have pretty much drawn out some basic arrangements but putting all that into legally binding deal is going to be the challenge. I think we are going to get a sensible deal, but that will just be the beginning. The real work starts after that and it will take years, but it is better than taking years fighting it out. The key pieces, power sharing, integrity of the Kenyan electoral process, resettlement of IDPs, addressing the land issue, majimbo and all those big items on the national agenda are tied to one thing - namely a new democratic constitution for the country. There is no escaping that. On the whole Kofi Annan has been very impressive he is not mesmerized with power. He managed to push out the Mathauras and other vultures who were up to no good. But they are still busy cooking at State House. adongo |
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2008 18:44:20 GMT 3
Dola and Jakojwaya
Thanks for the update. These guys are confusing us. I still think it is going to be an interesting weekend. Annan is an experienced negotiator and I it looks like Ruto was pushing him to make announcements he is not ready to make yet.
All in all I don't see anybody walking out of the talks. They have given Kenyans an appetizer. Kenyans should use the weekend to put even more pressure for a just settlement.
adongo
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 8, 2008 18:59:52 GMT 3
Kenya parties see progress, no deal Opposition, ruling party leaders in talks to end election-related bloodshed Reuters updated 9:37 a.m. CT, Fri., Feb. 8, 2008 NAIROBI, Kenya - Negotiators for Kenyan President Mwai Kibaki and opposition leader Raila Odinga said on Friday talks to resolve their dispute over President Mwai Kibaki’s re-election had moved forward but not reached a final deal. “I don’t think it’s really going to be a breakthrough, but rather an agreement of principles,” a senior government official told Reuters.An opposition leader, William Ruto, said: “There is positive news, but no final solution yet.”Ruto denied earlier media speculation the two sides had agreed to share power in a government of national unity, saying: “I don’t think so. That is not the case.” Sources on both sides said they would not divulge details of the talks’ progress, but that mediator and former U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan would announce more at a news conference. Riots and ethnic attacks have killed more than 1,000 people and uprooted 300,000 since the December 27 polls, shattering Kenya’s image as a stable business, tourism and transport hub. Rigging December vote Both sides have accused each other of rigging the December vote -- allegations that triggered unrest laying bare deep divisions over land, wealth and power that date from colonial rule and have since been stoked by politicians. Negotiators had agreed on principles to end violence and help refugees, but had been wrestling with the issue of who won the election and what should happen next. Annan, who is leading the attempts to bring the country’s feuding parties together, said earlier the negotiations could not afford to fail. Mutula Kilonzo, a member of the government’s negotiating team, agreed. “We cannot afford our people using bows and arrows, people being pulled out of buses to be asked ’which language do you speak?’ and then being chopped,” Kilonzo said. In addition to hundreds of deaths, the turmoil in Kenya has uprooted 300,000 people, many living in squalid conditions and fearful of returning home. To assess the situation, the U.N. Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator, John Holmes, flew in on Friday for a three-day trip and was due on Saturday to visit Rift Valley towns hit by tribal clashes. Foreign ministers from the regional IGAD bloc threw their weight behind Annan on Friday, rejecting opposition charges they were visiting Kenya to launch separate talks to undermine him. Speaking on behalf of his colleagues, Ethiopian Foreign Minister Seyoum Mesfin said Annan had been called in by the African Union, and the whole continent recognized its authority. “Proliferation of initiatives have not helped anywhere,” he said. Kenya holds IGAD’s rotating chairmanship and has built up goodwill in the bloc for its regional peace efforts. Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. URL: www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23067473/ |
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Post by wakwitu on Feb 8, 2008 19:00:36 GMT 3
Wananchi:
Whichever way you look at it, there is movement. It is only a question of when and what? Ruto could not have spoken from ignorance - he is one of the insiders, he might have caught Annan by surprise. After all, one of te agreements was that nothing dicussed in the room was to go out.
Anyhow, there can be no way forward without a new constitution. It is time to revisit BOMAS and separate the judiciary, the legislature, and the executive. That is the only type of constituion we will settle for and also it MUST devolve the political and adminstrative structure of Kenya - yaani - MAJIMBO!!
I have always been optimistic and I am still optimistic that such an illegal government can not withstand a united people's movement., Life has not been kind to the MP of Othaya's group. , especially after this week of pressure from UN to Congress to EU.
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Post by mank on Feb 8, 2008 19:04:15 GMT 3
Mr. Annan will have to find a remote control over Mr. Ruto's big mouth. It is not clear what Mr. Ruto means to achieve by running to the media with premature announcements of a deal.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2008 19:14:07 GMT 3
Mr. Annan will have to find a remote control over Mr. Ruto's big mouth. It is not clear what Mr. Ruto means to achieve by running to the media with premature announcements of a deal. Actually Annan has pretty much confirmed what Ruto said. He just made it clear that no final deal has been reached yet. As a diplomat that is the way he would want things handled. Remember when he developed a "flu" as soon as he had kina Michuki rubbishing his intended negotiations. Annan is promising a deal by early next week. Parliament has actually been recalled to convene on Tuesday which makes a lot of sense. The ODM will not accept a deal that is not enacted into law by parliament even if Kibaki promises to mobilize his PNU M.P's to support such bills. The ODM will want to see the constitutional provisions tabled and passed in parliament. No more MoUs with Kibaki unless you are a fool. In general things are moving the right direction. Six weeks after the stolen elections it is time to get solutions and get to work to put the country together. adongo |
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Post by wakwitu on Feb 8, 2008 19:55:40 GMT 3
Mank:
I feel your despair...this was not how it was to be. you thought your boys and Karua would steal it and Kenyans would take it lying low.
As AO says now it is just a matter of protocol of how to go about enacting it into law
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Post by wakwitu on Feb 8, 2008 20:10:26 GMT 3
FEB. 8th. [Friday] 1PM KTN NEWS
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 8, 2008 23:06:19 GMT 3
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Post by kmurungi on Feb 9, 2008 2:20:16 GMT 3
Mr. Annan will have to find a remote control over Mr. Ruto's big mouth. OO, I know you are noting down the kind of language mank is using. let us respect Jukwaa for its dignity it has earned. |
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Post by kamalet on Feb 9, 2008 4:20:33 GMT 3
Mr. Annan will have to find a remote control over Mr. Ruto's big mouth. It is not clear what Mr. Ruto means to achieve by running to the media with premature announcements of a deal. Actually Annan has pretty much confirmed what Ruto said. He just made it clear that no final deal has been reached yet. As a diplomat that is the way he would want things handled. Remember when he developed a "flu" as soon as he had kina Michuki rubbishing his intended negotiations. Annan is promising a deal by early next week. Parliament has actually been recalled to convene on Tuesday which makes a lot of sense. The ODM will not accept a deal that is not enacted into law by parliament even if Kibaki promises to mobilize his PNU M.P's to support such bills. The ODM will want to see the constitutional provisions tabled and passed in parliament. No more MoUs with Kibaki unless you are a fool. In general things are moving the right direction. Six weeks after the stolen elections it is time to get solutions and get to work to put the country together. adongo The meeting on tuesday is an MPs Kamukunji rather than a convening of parliament. Whilst the two politicians may curve out sweetheart deals, are we sure this is what Kenyans really want? Adongo says only a deal cut via parliament should hold. I presume he is looking for legal and constitutional changes to accomodate his man. Have we considered that there may be Kenyans who may not like the deal and specifically tell their MPs not to support such a deal if it does not address their own issues? For instance, I hope that the deal includes the resettlement and security of thos Kenyans evicted in North Rift and elsewhere from land that they owned and this should include those evicted since 1990. Personally I will be writing to my Dagoretti MP to specifically veto any power sharing deal that does not take care of those evicted. She must also ask whether we shall change our constitution every five years to address a disgruntled election loser like Raila who causes mayhem to get his way into government. |
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Post by mank on Feb 9, 2008 6:35:12 GMT 3
Mank: I feel your despair...this was not how it was to be. you thought your boys and Karua would steal it and Kenyans would take it lying low. As AO says now it is just a matter of protocol of how to go about enacting it into law Wakwitu, What are you talking about? Who are my boys? |
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Post by enigma on Feb 9, 2008 7:54:50 GMT 3
Well politicians want to be ''immortalized'' so Ruto wants to be the one who made the great announcement.
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Post by eosir on Feb 9, 2008 12:28:09 GMT 3
The so called DEAL (and the 'devil must be in the details') is really between PNU and ODM leaders (Kibaki and Raila et al). However, are there any deals between the parties and their respective supporters? ODM leaders cannot assume that they can simply cut boardromom deals and their supporters will be happy and compliant.
Does power sharing among all parliamentary represent an a step forward in Kenya's democracy? Would this not be going back to the dark days when Kenya was a de facto one-party state? If indeed this deal goes through then Kibaki will probably die of laughter. First, he stole the poll, then tricked both ODM and western powers into recognition and finally ended up with a one party parliament. For him, Christmas will have come very early indeed!
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Post by mank on Feb 9, 2008 18:12:08 GMT 3
Mr. Annan will have to find a remote control over Mr. Ruto's big mouth. OO, I know you are noting down the kind of language mank is using. let us respect Jukwaa for its dignity it has earned. kmurungi, its not really the language you are opposed to. Its the direction I seem to be throwing my stones with the last post. Even as Annan impressed that indeed some kind of deal was on the table, he repremanded Ruto for breaking an agreement they had made to not take to the public matters that were in discussion. Actually Annan has pretty much confirmed what Ruto said. He just made it clear that no final deal has been reached yet. As a diplomat that is the way he would want things handled. Remember when he developed a "flu" as soon as he had kina Michuki rubbishing his intended negotiations. Annan is promising a deal by early next week. Parliament has actually been recalled to convene on Tuesday which makes a lot of sense. The ODM will not accept a deal that is not enacted into law by parliament even if Kibaki promises to mobilize his PNU M.P's to support such bills. The ODM will want to see the constitutional provisions tabled and passed in parliament. No more MoUs with Kibaki unless you are a fool. In general things are moving the right direction. Six weeks after the stolen elections it is time to get solutions and get to work to put the country together. Adongo, actually convening parliament is Annan's idea. It is Annan that made it clear deals will not be finalized at mediation table, and expressed the need for parliament to be called for briefing. |
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 9, 2008 18:43:21 GMT 3
Mank
They are holding what is usually called a Kamkunji. That means it is a meeting of M.P's convened and chaired by the Speaker of the House.
We had frequent such kamkunjis in the run up to the Wako Draft. Basically M.P's are briefed on what is going on and the Speaker will then get a sense whether there is support for some of the proposals or not.
Of course the little coward on the hill has shut down parliament at the most critical time in the country's history. That alone tells you Kibaki is living in conditions where the country is simply ungovernable for him. That can't last forever even he knows that.
My thinking is that parliament will be officially convened very soon even before the end of the week unless the talks collapse.
The political deal cannot be completed without parliamentary endorsements. So look for Bunge to open next week. My sense is that there will be a deal next week.
In the unlikely event that the talks collapse, parliament may not open for a long time and I suspect the ODM would go a head and declare their government and let the chips fall wherever they may. I also think Kibaki's plan B if the talks fail would be to endorse a military coup and let Kenyans kanyaga themselves for a few years. I think the visa thing has made a mess of that option. A lot of the big shots will have to run to TZ and UG and not board planes to New York City. That is the sucker punch if you will that is pushing the talks to something positive.
That is my 2cents.
adongo
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