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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 19, 2008 17:00:45 GMT 3
I will not mince words
Its obvious the PNU guys wont do the right thing. I think they have reasoned along the lines, 'we have come this far why stop?'
I think they have concluded that as per their perspective, the issue of the IDP resettlement is now a lost cause they have no cause to talk.
R was despondent about the outcome of the talks as per the NYT report I posted here yesterday. He sees PNU strategy of 'riding out the storm' as a recipe for disaster.
And with the shady going ons in the Police force, NYS, and Army its obvious they, PNU want to use brute strength to supress dissent.
I think it will take external Armed intervention to uproot the ursuper in chief gen kegs. Meanwhile the situation is getting ripe for an armed insurgency.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 19, 2008 17:14:37 GMT 3
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23228197/U.S. strikes within Pakistan — without notice! Obama said he would if Al queda hid there, now GWB has done it! Perhaps they will strike kwetu pia! They have warned the sloth gen kegs share power or else! Order will imposed from outside!
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Post by enigma on Feb 19, 2008 18:46:01 GMT 3
Hapless alarmist Maniac at it again. You think insurgency is an easy affair? Both sides agree about the need for an amicable solution and are working at it. I suspect that you don't know the tail end of an insurgency from its head and that is why you keep screaming war. If war starts, there will be no power to fight for, so its best to get the best possible deal from the country as we have it now. Otherwise why dont the fighting tribes all just move to Somalia to cut to the chase. Thats what a war ravaged country looks like, now try and share power there.
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Post by mimimzalendo on Feb 19, 2008 19:11:25 GMT 3
i agree PM. it does feel like the lull before the storm. i sense some anguish and frustration from civil society. and them militias seem to be readying themselves. its just so so sad that we have hardliners who cant see beyond their noses.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 19, 2008 19:43:48 GMT 3
PM
I would never like to see American soldiers or airstrikes anywhere near my country and under the circumstances they will never do it. There are no Al queda folks or suspects for them to mess with and kill people as colaterals. The Americans are bad news and even if Obama was the one in charge they will do exactly the same thing they are doing now. Obama by the way is a very mainstream American, otherwise he would not even be having a shot.
I think Condoleezza Rice did a good job, the rest now is up to Kenyans. As I have said elsewhere Kibaki is going to offer Raila and ODM the crumbs. If that is what the ODM thinks Kenyans have been fighting for they will accept it, if they think otherwise the will reject it and this merry go a round will be over by Friday. That is good for everybody. False hopes is bad for the country. We are all desperate for an amicable solution, but what Kibaki wants seems to be for the ODM to support them, help them get legitimacy and then they will give the ODM the ministry of Social Services etc. That is just pure crap.
Also the PNU machismo types seem to be digging for a war so may be it might be a good idea to give them that opportunity and when they see the full configuration may be they will change their minds. The trouble with these talks is you kill them, you just don't get them back.
Kenya was actually very lucky. We had the whole world at our doorsteps talking peace even before the first shot was fired so to speak and I think it has spoilt our politicians. They think the world will be at our gates everyday with solutions. In many countries it is not until the body count get into the millions that the international community actually shows. Look at the DRC.
War is bad and terrible. I would never wish it on any country. Kenyans are scared to death about it but you cannot avert by simply wishing it never comes. When you are sick and you refuse to see a doctor, your chances of recovery are not that bright.
In Kenya I know one thing. Kibaki cannot govern by force without inciting a national resistance which will inevitably involve arms. The conditions have never been this ripe for insurgency, anarchy and warlordism. The people who will pay the price are the citizens and our families of course but we have no say on that now, or do we?
The only silver lining in the event of an armed "solution" is that the super rich with hundreds of acres of land will only keep a few plots. Also after that when folks sit down for talks everybody will pay attention. Let's still hope that somebody will be able to convince Kibaki to deal with the talks as his last serious chance to actually leave the office peacefully. Once hell breaks loose forget, Kibaki, Raila and all those guys, the warlords will run the show and the army of unemployed youth will have a field day. They have nothing to lose as it is.
adongo
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 19, 2008 20:05:53 GMT 3
That exactly what I mean AO, its anarchy time. The PNU have dug in it seems. All the reports I am getting is one of despondency, fear of the unknown, reports of movement of soldiers and paramilitary forces into Western.
As for external forces even R called for 'peacekepers'. i dont know what he meant by that. But can you envisage a situation where by the riots post Jan 30 are upped a notch or two and there is no External intervention?
I am convinced that if sanity does not prevail in the PNU camp we al loose, perhaps thats their mission.
The bottm line is this election was stolen.
There must be consequences, the impasse cant last sine die.
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Post by dmutai on Feb 26, 2008 19:19:48 GMT 3
Real life stories:There will be blood in Kenya
By Nicholas D. Kristof
Syndicated columnist,NEW YORK TIMES
KISUMU, Kenya — Until he was circumcised with a machete in front of a jeering mob and then dragged off to be beheaded, Robert Ochieng had been a symbol of modern, post-tribal harmony in Kenya.
A member of the Luo ethnic group, Robert, 16, had played and studied with members of another ethnic group, the Kikuyu. They were friends. And then Kenya erupted in rioting after a rigged election, and suddenly Luos were chasing and killing Kikuyus, and a mob of Kikuyus was running down Robert.
He claimed that he was Kikuyu as well, but the suspicious mob stripped him naked and noted that he was not circumcised, meaning that he could not be Kikuyu. That's when his attackers held him down — smashing his arm when he tried to protect himself — and performed the grotesque surgery in the street to loud cheers.
The crowd shouted war cries and was preparing to decapitate Robert with a machete when the police rescued him. Doctors did some repair work and say he will recover physically, but as he sat in a church shelter for the displaced here in Kisumu in Western Kenya, he seethed with hostility that may never heal.
"When I see Kikuyu shops that have been burned down," he told me, "I feel good inside."
Never again will Robert be friendly with Kikuyu or have anything to do with them; he is now a symbol of the primeval tribal tensions that threaten Kenya's future.
The prime villain is President Mwai Kibaki, who would have been hailed as a hero if he had obeyed the will of the people in the December election. Instead, he — and a cast of thugs around him — appear to have stolen the election, starting a spiral of tribal violence that has killed more than 1,000 people and displaced 300,000. Kibaki's intransigence risks the collapse of his country, possibly even civil war.
The man who probably had the election stolen from him, Raila Odinga, is a Luo, as was Barack Obama's Kenyan father. Many Kenyans grimly note that a Luo may become president of the United States before being permitted to become president of Kenya.
Many Kenyans also say that the United States has been a part of the problem. In our desire for stability, we acquiesced in election irregularities in such countries as Ethiopia and Nigeria, inadvertently signaling that Kibaki could get away with stealing re-election.
The United States cozied up to Kibaki and initially congratulated him on his "victory."
Since then, the United States has come around and played a helpful role in nudging Kibaki to make concessions, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's visit to Kenya on Monday usefully added pressure.
More broadly, the United States has pursued policies in Africa that are akin to our policies in Pakistan, and Kibaki is one of our African Musharrafs. In the interest of short-term stability, we acquiesce in despotic behavior that eventually creates instability. Granted, these are tough balances to strike. But look at Kenya or Pakistan today, and it's clear that we got the balance wrong.
Flying over northern Kenya to Eldoret, you see smoke still rising from some of the countless Kikuyu farms that have been burned to the ground. And here in Kisumu, the arriving Luo tell horrific stories.
"My wife was burned to death with our two children, aged 5 and 1 ½," said a dazed Nicholas Ochieng. "Now I have no wife, no children, no house, no job. I have nothing."
Mary Odhiambo, an aid worker tending to the new arrivals, said one shellshocked woman arrived on a bus still clutching her husband's head, wrapped in newspapers, after a mob had hacked it off and mockingly presented it to her.
"We have people coming in from Kikuyu areas, and they swear that before they die, they have to kill a Kikuyu," Odhiambo said.
If Kibaki does not back down, Kenya will completely blow up. Kofi Annan is working heroically to broker a compromise, and a power-sharing agreement is possible in which Kibaki remains president for a couple of years and Odinga serves as prime minister.
But so far, Kibaki hasn't been willing to make necessary concessions.
"If the talks collapse, there will be an explosion countrywide," Odinga said, adding: "It will be bloodier than before."
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 26, 2008 21:13:48 GMT 3
Ni Kubaya! Its like we are watching a movie......unbelievable Rice demands action to end Kenya crisis Tue 26 Feb 2008, 14:12 GMT [-] Text [+] (Updates with Condoleezza Rice statement) By Duncan Miriri and Giles Elgood NAIROBI, Feb 26 (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice criticised Kenyan leaders on Tuesday for failing to end their political stand-off and said Washington would take "necessary steps" if a solution was not reached. Government and opposition negotiators were meeting in Nairobi with no clear sign of a breakthrough on a power-sharing deal, while the opposition has threatened to resume nationwide protests. The talks being mediated by former U.N. chief Kofi Annan had come to a standstill on Monday with both sides saying President Mwai Kibaki and opposition leader Raila Odinga needed to step in to overcome the deadlock. Rice, who is on a trip to China, said that while there had been some progress, "I am disappointed by the failure of leadership necessary to resolve all the remaining issues." She added: "I want to emphasise that the future of our relationship with both sides and their legitimacy hinges on their cooperation to achieve this political solution. "In that regard, we are exploring a wide range of possible actions. We will draw our own conclusions about who is responsible for lack of progress and take necessary steps." She did not elaborate. Rice, who visited Kenya earlier this month to urge progress, said the United States would also "exercise leadership" to press for a political solution through the United Nations, the African Union and the European Union. Both Kenyan leaders have come under international and domestic pressure to compromise over Kibaki's disputed re-election in a Dec. 27 vote, an event that triggered ethnic violence in which 1,000 people have been killed and 300,000 forced to flee their homes. "SOME AGREEMENT" Annan met Kibaki and Odinga separately on Monday night but negotiators could not say whether the two men were any closer to a deal. "I think there is some agreement on some (issues) and not on others but we are still talking," Kenyan Foreign Minister Moses Wetangula said after the two sides broke for lunch. Tanzanian President Jakaya Kikwete was due to arrive on Wednesday in his capacity as African Union chairman to talk with Odinga, Annan and Kibaki. Mediator Annan, the former U.N. secretary-general, is ready to leave Kenya if there is no progress soon, according to a source close to the talks. The opposition has said it will stage nationwide protests beginning on Thursday if there is no deal. Police had no comment on whether they would permit the demonstrations. A top official of Kibaki's party said the protest call was not in the interests of the Kenyan people. "When you say mass action the message that people hear is war. There has been enough suffering," said Danson Mungatana, Secretary General of the Party of National Unity. Earlier protests descended into riots and looting that were met with a deadly police response, while simultaneous rounds of ethnic killings and revenge attacks took place in different parts of the east African country. The bloodshed damaged Kenya's reputation as a prosperous trade and tourism hub and a haven of stability in a volatile region. Against this background of violence, the government has agreed in principle to create a prime minister's seat demanded by the opposition. But the parties are split on the premier's powers, the sharing of ministries and the possibility of a new election if the coalition collapses. Police on Monday arrested at least 200 youths said to be undergoing military training at a farm owned by a former legislator, near the Mt. Elgon area, local media reported. A police spokesman gave no immediate comment. (For in depth coverage on Reuters Africa Web site: africa.reuters.com/elections/kenya/ ) (Editing by Daniel Wallis and Ralph Boulton) |
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Post by JAHAATWACH on Feb 26, 2008 23:20:49 GMT 3
PM,
I have decided to take the optimistic view. Kenya, I say, will prevail.
In as much as i agree with you that power is not given but taken(by force), i think ODM still has the upper-hand in the ongoing battle of nerves and wits. Let it avoid those battle cries and hold its horses for now.
I think its time to step back and let that greatest arbiter, time, and its fury, take care obstacles holding Kenya back from it's destiny.
Something to ponder
When the cowardly President Milton Obote impulsively stepped out of the Commonwealth Heads of State Conference hall in Malasyia to dispatch a telegram to his security officers, ordering the arrest of Idi Amin, little did he know that Amin Dada had an affair with Obote's secretary.She handed the telegram to Amin instead.The rest is history.
Moral of this? jijazie mwenyewe!
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 27, 2008 0:38:35 GMT 3
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swaka
New Member
Posts: 10
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Post by swaka on Feb 27, 2008 1:50:59 GMT 3
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Post by JAHAATWACH on Feb 27, 2008 14:46:10 GMT 3
PM,I have decided to take the optimistic view. Kenya, I say, will prevail.
In as much as i agree with you that power is not given but taken(by force), i think ODM still has the upper-hand in the ongoing battle of nerves and wits. Let it avoid those battle cries and hold its horses for now.
I think its time to step back and let that greatest arbiter, time, and its fury, take care of human obstacles holding Kenya back from it's destiny. Kenya's opposition leader Raila Odinga has called off Thursday's mass protests after meeting ex-UN head Kofi Annan. " We... are committed to the talks. We have postponed until further notice any actions planned for tomorrow," Mr Odinga told reporters in the capital, Nairobi, after meeting Mr Annan, Reuters news agency reports. " news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7266399.stm |
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 27, 2008 16:44:46 GMT 3
R is going the extra mile
Any fallout wont be blamed on him.
PNU will HAVE to accede to the demands of ODM.
They are faced with very unpalatable choices, but they have to pick one, either war, chaos and death if they hang onto power, or peace if they give up some of it.
Poor them
They are acting out perfectly, the part of a stubborn thief, caught in the act, red handed, but denying the act.
Kenyans have tambuaad them!
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 29, 2008 0:02:30 GMT 3
Well finally it seems as if PNU decided to "take one for the masses". They sipped the chalice and gave up POWER!
In the face of massive internal strife and who knows what type of external pressure that would have been applied, they caved in. It was a loose loose scenario and they did the right thing, scarificed their ill begotten dues for the good of the Kenyan masses.
Now tujenge nchi!
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