Oduor Ongwen: What he saw in Kisumu

[adongo12345]

Must people in Nyanza die for Tuju to ‘set the Luo free’?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------(Wednesday Nov. 2 2005 Standard
Commentaries)

By Oduor Ongwen

The outpouring of outrage and grief over what happened in Kisumu last weekend is not only understandable but one million times justified. I was an eyewitness to this pre-meditated mass murder. I had feared the fatalities would be more. You would have been excused to think this country had been attacked by a foreign power and our soldiers had been mobilised to repulse the enemy.

Before I share what I saw, I take this opportunity to condole with the families of the four innocent souls that were brutally and senselessly cut short. Their innocent blood will forever blot the life of Minister Raphael Tuju and those who ordered such inhuman operations.

I particularly feel for Police Inspector Kennedy Omutere, who was probably busy mobilising the police troops, as his son, 13, was gunned down in spite of the fact that he donned full school uniform and was carrying a schoolbag. Their spirits, like the spirits of those who were equally brutally murdered in October 1969, will continue crying for justice. For those who were injured and are recuperating in various health facilities, I wish them quick recovery.

Back to the events of last Saturday. I arrived in Kisumu, from Siaya, at about 10.30 am. I had forgotten that Tuju had a rally in the in town. I didn’t need a reminder. As I approached the railway crossing, I came face to face with terror – two lorry loads of General Service Unit (GSU) personnel menacingly wielding sub machine guns and led by two police cars, their sirens blaring. They pushed every motorist out of the road. The only time I had witnessed that kind of scene was in 1984 when, using public transport from Busia to Kampala, we met the late President Milton Obote’s convoy.

Barely five metres ahead, there was a roadblock manned by policemen in full riot gear. I summoned the courage to inquire from the "peace keeper" who was being escorted under such tight security. One of them told me the contingent was going to the airport to meet ministers coming to the Banana rally. Then I recalled that it was indeed 29th and Tuju had promised to hold a rally come rain or high waters. I was waved on without my car being inspected.

I stopped at a hardware store along Obote Road, to transact some business. Tension was already in the air. Merchants along the road already had their shops half-closed. My business in that street over, I proceeded to Oginga Odinga Road. Here, the policemen were in a riotous mood. They were beating and dispersing any group of three or more people found walking, sitting or standing. Never mind that this is the busiest street in Kisumu. Never mind, too, that the street is almost 5 km away from Moi Stadium, the venue of the Banana rally. One had to drive very carefully as women, children, young people and old people were running in all directions for their dear lives. I could not conduct any business there and so quickly left to take Nairobi highway to pick up something from Nakumatt City Mega. As I drove past Jomo Kenyatta Highway, I could see police brutality in its raw form as the cops clobbered everyone on site – hawkers, vegetable vendors and even street preachers.

Past Argwings Kodhek flats, I was stopped by a group of youthful men. They were no doubt in uncompromising mood. Some of them recognised me and said: Jatelo, nenore ni jogi obiro negowa. Gigoyo ji kayiem. Koro wadwaro kedo kodgi (these people [policemen] seem to be here on a killing mission. They are beating innocent people. We now want to retaliate). They advised me turn back if I wanted to save my skin and car. I complied and drove out of town to Usonga to attend a relative’s burial.

It was now about 1.30 pm and the police were still rioting. When I read in the print media the following day how they were pulling students out of examination rooms, houses, bathrooms and offices to beat or shoot them, I was not surprised

Did these innocent people have to die and so many maimed to satisfy Tuju’s ego? Does it have to take the mowing down of multitudes for Tuju to "liberate" the Luos? And where did he get this idea that Luos – and not the rest of Kenya – are looking for a saviour? Those, like Tuju, for whom physical survival and wellbeing are the vision are driven to stay alive and will do anything to preserve self. Those of us for whom the quality and state of life is a vision are driven to maintain or attain that state and quality, and will die to do so. In human history, the latter is more common.

The notion that the basic human drive is that of animal survival is, to say the least, myopic and the Tujus of this world had better know this. It is a manifestation of the legacy of perverse, death-dealing dogmas and theologies that have perpetuated the status of most human existence at base, subhuman levels throughout history. The implications of individual autonomy and vision, expressed collectively, are so resounding and threatening to those whose vision is immersed in the status quo that no tolerance can be allowed for creative free expression of self and collective. But humans, everywhere, continue to maintain and express self and class, clan, creed or other collective interest. We do author autonomous, individual and collective actions. This is our potential, our disposition, and our will. No police or military brutality will stop us.

May I remind Tuju and his principals that life is only equal to life. The life of a Luo, a Borana, an El Molo or a Mukhayo is life. Let life be respected.

* The writer is a development expert

[miguna]

On'gwen was an eye witness; an observer who was there when the madness was unfolding. i wonder anyone can read his piece and still blame the victims of this carnage. A time will come for all perpetrators of state sanctioned violence to account for their misdeeds...

[kamalet]

4 kenyans die in Kisumu, and we have people we all think are educated calling this MASS MURDER of LUOS!! If only there was similar condemnation for the "other murderers" of the Luo community such as AIDS, Malaria etc., since these kill more Luos in a day than the unwarranted mass murder by the Kenyan police whilst totally preventable!

Hopefully after Gen. Ali's confirmation that he was misled and the ordering the arrest of the CO of the Kisumu operation for misleading information is a good start. Secondly the police inquiry might be able to shed light of the cause and reason for all the stupid mayhem we saw last weekend.

[roughrider]

How many residents of Kisumu should be shot dead and maimed with bullets for Kamale to be moved a trifle?

We are still mourning the senseless killings in Kisumu and the soil has NOT settled on young Limera’s coffin yet Kamale CANNOT not resist wild tribal guffaws.

Yes, he the incurable hypocrite who continues to champion narrow minded Gikuyu ethnic nationalism across online forums is NOW busy justifying and celebrating the mass murder in Kisumu.

How does he justify it?

He is saying that AIDS and Malaria are killing many Luo’s anyway so why should we cry over a mere 4 deaths at the hands of state sponsored terrorists.

According to Kamale's warped reasoning, they would have died of AIDS or Malaria anyway. No sweat!

AIDS and Malaria are not planned and premeditated. AIDS and malaria are not sent out on a mission to identify suspected orange supporters in Kisumu and snuff out young lives remorseless. Yes, we do have problems with AIDS and Malaria and yes we are burying many people all over the world who have died of AIDS and Malaria. But that does not give the police any right to come and kill people like chicken nor does it accord kamale and like-minded sadists the green light to laugh and cheer.

Pray, how do people - 5 Kms away - look like they are about to disrupt a rally and must therefore be killed?

Kamale knows a lot about the murders in kisumu. To quote him, the 'police were hell-bent' on making a point in Kisumu. I know he might protest my labelling him a tribalist but Jukwaa readers will recall deciphering this tribal logic:

Premise 1: Luo's are Fools
Premise 2: Kikuyu's are Thieves
Premise 3: Thieves are better than Fools
Happy conclusion: Kikuyu's are better than Luo's

he does not need to say it quite like this but basic analysis of the thought process and writings expose it all.

Kamale also supports the police committee to investigate itself. The commissioner lied about people attacking a police station and has lost crediblity to investigate the matter. We demand an independent judicial commission of inquiry to unravel the responsibility, the lies and cover-ups in the Kisumu murder. Kamale is urging us to move on and stop creating a fuss over nothing.

This is the second time in the recent past I am responding to something that kamale has written about ‘luos in Kisumu’. Clearly, he has not got it into his head that Kisumu is cosmopolitan. There are all communities in Kenya there.

Oduor Ongwen’s article on what he saw in Kisumu does not claim that Kisumu is for Luo’s. Nobody has claimed that... with the possible exception of Raphael Tuju who began this ill-advised move to 'liberate the Luos' by holding a banana rally in Kisumu.

Why is Kamale hell bent on fabricating and disseminating tribally inspired messages? Did the government send lethal police to Kisumu in the false belief that it is only worthless Luo who reside there? Or is this a reflection of the desperation in the YES camp over an increasingly apparent loss awaiting them on 21st November? Democrats must allow the rendezvous with the ballot box.

Meanwhile we must be allowed to express our outrage at the mass murder in Kisumu. We must be allowed to mourn and bury the dead in peace, without the constant jeering and mocking from kamale and his ilk.

Any murder is one too many and kamale must be told that in no uncertain terms.

[aeichener]

You may not agree with Kamale's political opinions (neither do I), but that he has remained calm and cold, contrary to your hot feelings, does not warrant such a wildly emotional attack as you now bring forth. He has argued against rhetoric hyperbole, but I see nowhere any ill-advised justification of the killings in his recent lines.

In most countries of the world, it is police and prosecution who investigate police wrongdoings, either special "internal affairs" cops or CID staff from outside departments. Who else could do it? Maybe the Bureau of Standards - or city council sanitation inspectors? And the Kenyan commission mania (an important part of the national political character, by the way) has not achieved much - except for spending fortunes in transport and session allowances.

The rest of your attack (beginning with "This is the second time") hits Miguna Miguna squarely in the belly - not Kamalet. As such, it's well-warranted and deserved :-).

Alexander

[miguna]

The mad man of jukwaaa (aechener):

If you only knew what your "handle" means" in Luo.

The only question I want to ask is: how did roughrider's comments hit me below the belly? You had to drag my name into your parochial madness, isn't it? Are you now happy and satisfied with your achievement? Will you now return to the mirror that our in-house pyschiatrist had prescribed for you? Please look carefully; you might just see the boogey man...

I honestly do not want to engage you in any kind of debate because it is obvious that your strengths lie elsewhere.

[roughrider]

Alex

I certainly do not agree with people killing innocent Kenyans or those who tolerate such acts. If that is ‘hot feelings’ or ‘emotional’ then so be it.

I first read the lines, then between the lines (and I suggest you adopt the habit) and obviously when someone suggests that Malaria and AIDS would kill luos anyway, he is in a roundabout way trying to justify murder. There is a context and an interpretation here. You obviously did not notice how Kamale wants to make the minor point that only four people died in Kisumu and therefore it is not a mass murder? What kind of person argues about such things?

On who should investigate this matter: I am obviously not a lawyer so I can’t pretend to know all the intricacies of who should investigate what. But natural justice demands that one cannot be an investigator, a judge or jury in a case where he stands accused.

I agree that the historical experience in Kenya with commissions (not necessarily judicial) is not flattering. Nevertheless this cannot a general indictment on their efficacy in dealing with this matter. Incidentally, the invitation of independent investigators (e.g. Scotland Yard) is another attractive option. But if we allow the police to continue investigating a matter where prima facie they are culpable, then justice will neither be done nor be seen to be done.

Miguna – lucky chap – has not once crossed my gun sights. However, as you clearly have him on your crosshairs; make sure you actually have bullets and the gun is co.cked.

[aeichener]

roughrider said:

You obviously did not notice how Kamale wants to make the minor point that only four people died in Kisumu and therefore it is not a mass murder?

I obviously did notice it. That's why I engaged you - because this is indeed the main point. If any tribal enemy of yours bashes your head with a rungu, it would be murder or at least manslaughter (and the police shooting seem to have been at least in part intentional murder, and not just "stray bullets", even which latter would hardly be justifiable either).
But a dead roughrider or aeichener does not equate "mass murder"; not even if kamalet and miguna would lie at our sides (making that four).

See the point?

But natural justice demands that one cannot be an investigator, a judge or jury in a case where he stands accused.

Right. That's why police (CID) without any personal or administrative connections to the Kisumu units should investigate the case, and why the DPP should (IMHO) personally oversee the investigations.

Incidentally, the invitation of independent investigators (e.g. Scotland Yard) is another attractive option.

Yes, I agree; a good proposal.

And it's indispensable wherever ballistic expertise is needed, Kenya having no proper means to conduct own state-of-the-art investigations in forensic ballistics, and her forensic medical service is more pitiful than laughable (just described in the Nation, you may have read it); this sad situation after all gave birth to the whole "Anglo Leasing" scam.

Alexander

[roughrider]

aeichener said:

But a dead roughrider or aeichener does not equate "mass murder"; not even if kamalet and miguna would lie at our sides (making that four).

See the point?

I see your point and disagree. It is based on a misunderstanding of what 'mass murder' is.

I guess the question that remains is this: How many murders constitute a mass murder?

A subsidiary quetion: considering that more than 30 people were nursing bullet wounds from the Kisumu affair and possibly hundreds of bullets were fired would you agree that (if you disagree with the term ‘mass murder’) there was ‘attempted mass murder’?

A mass murder (massacre) is described by Wikipedia (for example) as an act of murdering of a large number of people all at the same time. Mass murders may be attributed to organizations or to individuals.

The key phrase here is ‘large number’ and large is defined as ‘greater than average’ – FYI the average victim count for murder in Kenya is one.

So relatively, based on our definition, 4 (more accurately 5) would be mass murder.

Quoting wikipedia again: 'Unlike the term "murder", the term "mass murder" does not have a legal definition, i.e., it is a moral term of negative connotation. Therefore its usage and applicability depends on the historical context and moral paradigm, which may lead to controversies when describing particular events'

Does the murder of 4 people generate moral outrage in kenya? Is it - historically - speaking a shocking carnage?

Further according to Wikipedia ‘outside of a political context, the term "mass murder" refers to the killing of several people at the same time’. Now several means ‘Being of a number more than two or three but not many’

The murder of many would be genocide.

Conclusion: was the murder of FIVE (kamale's figure of 4 is deliberate and yes I noticed) people in Kisumu mass murder? It all depends on your morality.

[adongo12345]

Kamale/eaichener

You are embarrassing yourselves badly. For Kamale to compare police brutality and murder of citizens who pay them for protection with HIV/AIDS is straight up stupidity and reeks of a fascist mentality.

Why do you think Kenyans who condemn police murders in Kisumu should condemn death from HIV/AIDS? Do you know what those same Kenyans and others are doing to promote the war against HIV/AIDS infections? Do we need to report those details to you, so that you can allow us to condemn murder by cops?

And then the nonsense about the numbers. When police open fire on fleeing people and kill at random like they did in Kisumu it is called mass murder. At least in an execution you have specific number(s) to terminate, for whatever reason. And that too was one of the crimes our police/GSU committed in Kisumu, at least according to published reports.

The bottom line is when you fire indiscriminately into a crowd, you could kill one or kill a hundred. It is a miracle police in Kisumu did not kill more people. The folks they left with bullet holes in their chests, stomachs, legs etc(more than 50 according to reports) may be alive, but they are probably more unfortunate than the dead. They are going to live with horrible pain and will be unable to feed themselves and support their families till they day they go to their grave. Of course we are going to fight to hold Kibaki and Michuki accountable to these people and to pay them compensation. You remember the truth and justice commission, it is getting much bigger by the day.

I find nothing about all these murders and brutality to be funny for people like you, whatever tribalistic agendas you may have to sneer about.

If you bothered to read the eye witness account by Ongwen, you could have found out that what he saw was an entire city under siege. People were being brutalized merely for being in Kisumu, a place most of them call home. Any group of two or more walking or doing their business were being attacked and chased out of town. I don't know if you(kamale) were there yourself to dispute what Ongwen says, but it seems the 3,000 army of thugs that Tuju brought to Kisumu were on a mission to teach the residents of Kisumu a lesson not to provide for law and order.

By the way the strategy of turning this into a Raila planned mayhem backfired a long time ago. We had mayhem in Kisumu alright, but it was a police and government orchestrated mayhem.

About the Ali investigation. Police investigating police is OK, as long as they are only dealing with their own internal disciplinary issues. If for example the police disobeyed direct orders from Ali not to use live ammunition, Ali can sort that out and deal with the culprits. If the police lied about a fake attack on a police station and made Ali look stupid telling Kenyans that is what happened, Ali can sort that out. In fact a police investigation may lead to police officers being charged with murder, attempted murder na kadhalika. After all it is the job of police to investigate murders regardless of who commits them.

There are many issues that a Police Inquiry cannot handle and that is why we need and will continue demanding a public Inquiry long after the referendum is over. Let me tell you two issues the police cannot competently handle.

1. Suppose a political decision was made to invade Kisumu and escort that Tuju moron to Kisumu and discipline the residents. This is a more important issue for public safety but is beyond Ali to deal with because such an order would only come from his boss Michuki and Kibaki. Why were 3,000 strong army of security agents sent to Kisumu? Who authorized it and why? What was the protocol of action by the police?

2. Was there a political agenda in relation to the Kisumu murders which has nothing to do with Law and Order? For example how about if there was a plot to create massive violence in Kisumu by shooting the residents and provoking them to retaliate and possibly even kill police officers. Couldn't that be a very lucrative political investment, in human blood of course, by those who are going nuts about Raila to actually launch "Raila the violent thug" campaign and hopefully redeem their lost constitutional agenda?

To get to these matters we need people to talk to a body carrying out the inquiry which is not part of the police force.

In fact even in gathering other info, wananchi are more likely to talk to folks who are not police agents. This is just common sense, isn't it? In fact we need police officers themselves to come out and say what they know. You think they are going to rush to their boss and say things that could harm their careers?

Adongo Ogony

[aeichener]

AO: Hyperbole and chest-thumping, fuelled by heated morality.
Kenya, evidently.

Adongo, a hot heart needs a cool head. Better heed it.

Alexander

[aeichener]

adongo12345 said:

There are many issues that a Police Inquiry cannot handle and that is why we need and will continue demanding a public Inquiry long after the referendum is over.

True.
But these are two inquiries of a very different nature. One is a judicial inquiry, to be held by police and prosecution.
The other is an electoral law or political inquiry, to be held by ECK or by the press, or possibly even by a parliamentary commission.
None ought to replace the other.

See also:
Mr Mukele agreed with Mr Mwangi that his disciplinary committee would not undermine investigations by a team appointed by the police commissioner, Maj Gen Ali.
"Our inquiry is coming in the middle of the on-going referendum campaigns when issues are very hot. We are only interested in issues dealing with violence and violation of the electoral code of conduct," Mr Mukele said.
From the Nation:
www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?category_id=1&newsid=61029

Alexander

[adongo12345]

aeichener said:

AO: Hyperbole and chest-thumping, fuelled by heated morality.
Kenya, evidently.

Adongo, a hot heart needs a cool head. Better heed it.

Alexander

eaichener:

If you are interested in responding to the issues I have raised, well and good. That is what the forum is about.

Otherwise I am sure both of us have better things to do with our time.

If I were you I would not pay any attention to the joke called the ECK "inquiry". Orengo appropraitely called it "just another ordinary baraza". It is probably much worse than that. At least in a village baraza they may be able to solve the problem between a goat thief and the grieved owner. In the ECK joke the goat thief and the owner are both guilty.

[miguna]

You are misleading people without battng an eye-lid. Judicial inquiry is not a "police" inquiry. Judicial inquiry must be chaired by a sitting judge or retired judge; not a police officer. In a case like the one of the Kisumu Massacre, the police force will appear as witnesses and interested parties. There is no role for "prosecution" as no one will be prosecuted. What we have is a Commission Counsel or Counsels, assisting the Commission, headed by a judge, in adducing the evidence before the Commission. The parents or relatives of the dead, residents of Kisumu and any other partry affected by the Massacre will apply and if their applications are granted, participate in the inquiry.

The role of the police is to investigate and also enforce the law. In this case, they cannot objectively investigate something that they are accused to have perpetrated. There is a clear presumption of bias or a reasonable apprehension of bias. Moreover, as the "accused" in this case, they would be in a conflict of interest situation, since one would assume that going by the exuberant declarations of one Gen Ali, their main interest would be to clear their members.

It is appalling to see one who claims to be a lawyer confuse a "judicial" inquiry with a "public" one. Unlike a judicial inquiry that must be chaired by a jurist, a public inquiry can be chaired by anyone of repute. However, both are mostly chaired by jurists. The reason this is done is for most people in society to have comnfidence that some semblance of justice will be done; that the inquiry will be an objective, "impartial" or a "neutral" forum where all relevant evidence will be adduced, all leads pursued and conclusions only deduced from the evidence adduced. Neither require the involvement of the police, unless, of course, they are interested parties to the inquiry.

One does not have to be a lawyer to know all these.

Your desperate attempts to argue for a police whitwash will not deter us...[unedited]

[aeichener]

adongo12345 said:

If I were you I would not pay any attention to the joke called the ECK "inquiry". Orengo appropriately called it "just another ordinary baraza". It is probably much worse than that.

Hm. You may well have a point here. That is why I do not put too much faith into such a non-judicial inquiry.

Incidentally, Miguna (as usual) has his legal terms wrong; not bewildering with a man who did not even know what the English word "referendum" denotes.

A police inquiry after a crime is supposed to have been committed (as opposed to preventive policing, which also may involves inquisitive activities) is the first part of the judicial proceeding. When this inquiry has ended, and the prosecution decides to press charges, the second stage (court trial) begins. Both stages however are judicial in nature, for they are governed by criminal procedure law.

Alexander

[miguna]

I will not allow you to wriggle out of this one today.

I am beginning to really doubt that you ever attended any legitimate law school. If you are actually a lawyer, I need your full legal names, the Law School you attended and when, when you were called to the Bar and in which jurisdiction so that I can confirm for myself that you exist. Otherwise, I will never ever respond to any of your useless quips, which have become embarassing.

For the first time, you are telling us that the police need to "conduct inquiries" before charges are laid. Since when? Every Akinyi and Moraa knows that all the police need to prefer charges is something called "a resasonable and probable cause" or "a reasonable belief that a crime has been committed."

I will not even get to prosecution or trials yet, because we need to get these very slowly, at your rate.

Now tell me, when a pathologist, Dr. David Olima said the following about the victims and how they were massacred, did you see "reasonable and probable cause" or you only saw mirrors?

(a) "Three of the victims killed during the recent violence in Kisumu were shot while FLEEING;"

(b) "Vincent Otieno aged 15 was shot on the back with high calibre bullets;"

(c) George Ogada, was shot at point blank range on the shoulder. The bullet created a hols in the humerous bone, tore his left lung and raptured the spine. The bullet was retrieved from the stomach and handed over to the police for ballistic examination;"

(d) "Hillary Ochieng', a rehabilitated street boy, was shot twice in the leg in close range. His bones were broken to pieces and [he] bled to death;" and

(e) None of those shot by rubber bullets has died."

Gen. Ali himself has stated publicly that the initial reports he was given by his officers, alleging that these innocent citizens of Kenya were butchered as they attempted to nstorm the Kondele Police Station in Kisumu in order to try to release their "arested colleagues" was misleading to say the least, and plainly fraudulent, at best.

There are hundreds of eye witnesses that could have been interviewed within hours of these massacres. The individual officers that fired those shots presumably used their officially issued weapons, that must have been signed out for. All ammunition must be accounted for and any officers that cannot fully account for ammution should be investigated and possibly charged. As well, the bullets that have been recovered from the victims can be examined and cross-checked against the issued ammunition.

This, our mad man, is not even close to nuclea physics. Are you still with me or you have already dozed off?

These are the issues; not some sick concoctions from Germany. Or maybe Germany is the problem. After all, it is not a "common Law" jurisdiction, and you may genuinely be confused....

No matter how long it takes us, this one will never be slipped under the carpet. I say: Bring it on.
[unedited]

[adongo12345]

To Everybody:

Does anybody know when the KCHR Investigation Report on the Kisumu murders is going to be released. Ndungu Kiai promised some days ago that they are due to release their report. The nation waits.

Adongo Ogony

[kamalet]

Looks like I stirred a hornet's nest!!

Unfortunately, people blinded by parochial tribal feelings are coming out in their true colours. I maintain that there was no mass murder as alleged and the 'mass' tag is only intended to achieve political appeal! Even from a statistical point of view without going into Wikipedia for a definition, the greatest mass murderer of Luos is not the Kenya Police - it is preventable disease, and that is what we must condemn. As far as I am concerned, the deaths in Kisumu were preventable as much as HIV/AIDs is preventable. Wear a condom when having sex, and do not go to rallies for people you do not agree with, and the police will not clobber you or disobey orders and shoot your a$$ off! It surely cannot be any simpler!

As I said in another thread, the mayhem in Kisumu was regrettable as was unfortunate. The killing (notice I do not suggest this as murder!) was wrong, and I am still hopeful that the culprits who ordered the use of live bullets will be punished.

Roughrider - I still insist on the number of 4 killed, not sure where you get the 5th on from unless a magical 5 will make this qualify to be 'MASS'!

As for Adongo and his moralist approach, I disagree that Tuju should not have been given 3000 policemen to help him address 25 people at Kenyatta Stadium. That is the price we must pay for democracy. We must protect free speech at whatever cost, including deploying that many policemen. In fact, Kamotho had several truckloads of policemen to accompany him on a tour of Murang's where a local councillor addressing a Yes rally asked the people to give way to the Kamoth police convoy - and not a single stone was thrown until Kamotho reached his constituency!

If you condemn the use of police to guard the moron Tuju's rally, then perhaps you might want to condemn them for giving Kamotho the same security.

It is becoming irritating for people who scream about being democrats showing how two-faced they can be - when it is convinient, a person has a right to freedom of speech and association, but in another, that right is not automatic - other people matter! Do give our intelligence a chance!

[miguna]

Yes, I am back. This time, I would only want to address three issues.

1. First, the strategy adopted by Kamau and our mad man of trying to defelect attention from the real issues will not work this time. On'gwen's article was an eye-witness account of what actually occured in Kisumu. It was not about democracy or the referendum, even though these are secondary issues to the wider discussion. What would be very interesting is a detailed presentation by Kamau and the mad man of a "counter" statement from an eye witness that seriously disputes or pokes holes on what On'gwen presented. Based only on reports I have received directly from my own friends and relatives from Kisumu as well as the newspaper articles we have all seen, On'gwen's version is far more credible and accurate than useless quips from Germany. If one is serious about refuting On'gwen's version, it is better if it is done through HARD FACTS, not nonsensical yodels.

2. Second, "MURDER" is defined by Black's Law Dictionary (the definitive reference law book), as "The unlawful killing of a human being by another with malice aforethought, either express or implied."

- Criminal homicide constitutes murder when (i) it is committed purposely or knowingly; or (ii) it is committed recklessly under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life. Such recklessness and indifference are presumed if the actor is engaged or is an accomplice in the commission of, or an attempt to commit, or flight after committing..."

- Obstructing justice is defined as "impeding or obstructing those who seek justice in a court, or those who have duties or powers of administratering justice therein. The act by which one or more persons attempt to prevent, or do prevent, the execution of lawful process.."

Clearly, even if our impervious critics do not want to call the Kisumu Massacres "murder" in the first instance (that is "committed knowingly"), they would have an impossible task of explaining how the shootings as described the the pathologist would not constitute "recklessness" or "reckless disregard to human life."

Moreover, Gen. Ali himself has confessed to being obstructed by some of his officers. This,in and by itself, is a criminal offense and would be more than sufficient to support a charge of obstruction of justice against those that mislead, lied, concealed, abetted or attempted to abet the crimes committed in Kisumu.

I hope that Kamau and the mad man are not suggesting that the innocent dead victims of this atrocity were themselves "criminals" that should be charged posthomously. I would want to see the evidence on which such a reckless statetement is being made.

It is no use to argue about Tuju. This may have been the strategy of those who planned and executed this tragic massacre. No matter how much they try, the people of Kenya will not, and have already registered their overwhelming rejection, of this mass murder, as some indictment on the Orange Team or Raila Odinga.

Call us all sorts of names...fools, idjit, whatever, but we shall never ever again permit you to delude yourselves that you are capable of coceiving, defining and implementing corrosive and destructive ideas without resistance. We shall resist consistently and vigorously.

(3) Third, let me also underline something important here: The Police Force, as an agent or arm of government, is only authorized to preserve public order, maintain peace and safety bof everyone and enforce laws. In doing so, they can investigate (track or search), arrest, charge and facilitate in the prosecution of those charged with offences. BUT THEY ARE NOT PART OF THE JUDICIARY. They can assist the judicial syatem by securing courts, prison cells, prisoners in court, maintaining order, providing security - but they are not trained or legally authorized to constitute themselves into Boards of Inquiry or Courts. What the SCOTLAND YARD normally does is conduct a professional "investigation" or "probe", but certainly not a "judicial inquiry." The word JUDICIAL cannot attach to any work legally permitted to be done by any police force. So, Orengo and others are correct in stating that whsat Gen. Ali has purported to do is unlawful and illegal.

Moreover, in this tragic case, and as I and others have said before, one cannot investigate oneself when faced with serious allegations of murder. There is no impartiality, objectivity and one's investigation of self cannot be credible. The Kenyan police are not an exception to this rule.

Nd. Adongo: I have not seen the promised KCHR "report". Maybe they are still "investigating" the same way they have been "investigating the midsuse of "public resources" in the refredndum campaings, yet curiously they do not seem to notice Lucy Kibaki and Narc Activits Wambui, flying in police and military helicopters, attempting to bribe voters with goodies from State House, etc. One wonders where Lucy and Wambui have suddenly gotten all the wealth! But I diegress. Forgive me, will you, my friend Kamau?

[unedited]

[aeichener]

adongo12345 said:

If I were you I would not pay any attention to the joke called the ECK "inquiry". Orengo appropraitely called it "just another ordinary baraza". It is probably much worse than that. At least in a village baraza they may be able to solve the problem between a goat thief and the grieved owner. In the ECK joke the goat thief and the owner are both guilty.

I would wait a bit until they actually tell the "joke"; we can still comment then:

The fate of the Yes and the No campaign teams over the Kisumu Town killings and violence in Kakamega will be known today.
The Electoral Commission of Kenya (ECK) will pass its verdict and make public the masterminds and the perpetrators of the violence on October 29, in which four people died at the lakeside.
(...)
Yesterday, the ECK deputy vice-chairman, Mr Gabriel Mukele, said they had concluded their inquiry after receiving evidence from Mr Tuju and Dr Khalwale among others. Said Mr Mukele: "We have heard a lot of evidence so far. We will withdraw and deliver a verdict on Wednesday (today) at 2.30pm."

Source:
www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?category_id=2&newsid=61109

Alexander

[kamalet]

miguna said:

1. First, the strategy adopted by Kamau and our mad man of trying to defelect attention from the real issues will not work this time. On'gwen's article was an eye-witness account of what actually occured in Kisumu. It was not about democracy or the referendum, even though these are secondary issues to the wider discussion. What would be very interesting is a detailed presentation by Kamau and the mad man of a "counter" statement from an eye witness that seriously disputes or pokes holes on what On'gwen presented. Based only on reports I have received directly from my own friends and relatives from Kisumu as well as the newspaper articles we have all seen, On'gwen's version is far more credible and accurate than useless quips from Germany. If one is serious about refuting On'gwen's version, it is better if it is done through HARD FACTS, not nonsensical yodels.

[unedited]

If you have bothered to read (and you seem to have that problem on actually reading before responding), you would have noticed that I did not at any time dispute what Oduor wrote - he was there I was not!! My problem was with those that suggested that 4 jamaas being killed is equal to mass murder, and then of course the addition of other killers around there....

You will notice that the 'mad man' and I have not at anyone time contested the matter of death and injury - but I have questioned the wisdom of the victims.

Finally Miguna, is it possible to give your responses a more mature feel? I think you are degenerating into juvenile rants with your not to funny jibes. Hopefully you will not fall too low as some characters I saw in Mashada and RCBowen.

[aeichener]

Kamalet: maybe we will know more by this afternoon. However, what testimony we *now* have, does indeed strongly suggest that some of the killings may have been willful murder, and not just stray bullets. I would be wary to blame the victims, since the initial police justifications now seem very much in doubt.

Alexander

[abdulmote]

I find kamale's comparissons of AIDS victims against the murdering of unarmed civilians by the riot Police to be completely and grossly distasteful to say the least! Being a victim of AIDS the disease is not "to be murdered" by the same as Kamale seems to suggest and that it cannot be! On the other hand, being shot at to death using such a lethal weapon as used by the riot police is to be "murdered", especially so considering the now known circumstances and the victims.

And again, how grossly insulting can one be to the intelligence of well thinking Kenyans when one suggests that it is the victims of those Police bullets who should be to blame for not keeping away?!! Ati "fools"!

OK, perhaps the idea here is to convince the masses to sheepishly accept being led into the 'Police State' as intended and shown through the brutality displayed! According to Kamale then, it is the wise who would keep away and therefore remain safe, so naively suggested without any obvious and harshest of criticisms that should accompany such advice if there was any sign of honesty and goodwill inherent therein! Did I say that I find such a suggestion offensive to my intelligense and enough a reason to grind my teeth in anger?

But then, why should I be surprised when any sensible observer cannot fail to notice the clear bias of thought, which is deliberately contaminated with an overdose of exploitive and manipulative tendencies such suggestions may seem to enjoy and as offered above?

[kamalet]

abdulmote said:

I find kamale's comparissons of AIDS victims against the murdering of unarmed civilians by the riot Police to be completely and grossly distasteful to say the least! Being a victim of AIDS the disease is not "to be murdered" by the same as Kamale seems to suggest and that it cannot be! On the other hand, being shot at to death using such a lethal weapon as used by the riot police is to be "murdered", especially so considering the now known circumstances and the victims.

Is the scourge of AIDs preventable? Yes if you wear a condom.

Is the scourge of Malaria preventable? Yes if you use treated nets.

Is the political violence we see preventable? Yes if we respect other people's democratic space.

Could the deaths in Kisumu have been preventable? Yes if the police had followed orders on how to quell the crowd trouble.

Could the injuries sustained been avoided? Yes if these FOOLS could have allowed Tuju's 25 people to attend the rally!

Abdulmote - is this so difficult to comprehend?

What you are asking me is to feel sorry for an idiot who goes to have unprotected sex and contracts AIDS - huu si ugonjwa wa ng'ombe - ni wa binadamu!

[aeichener]

adongo12345 said:

If I were you I would not pay any attention to the joke called the ECK "inquiry". Orengo appropraitely called it "just another ordinary baraza". It is probably much worse than that. At least in a village baraza they may be able to solve the problem between a goat thief and the grieved owner. In the ECK joke the goat thief and the owner are both guilty.

I am afraid that you have been proven fully right in your negative prediction. Sad.
:-(

www.timesnews.co.ke/10nov05/nwsstory/news2.html

Alexander