The Deal: or is it a really a Deal?

[kamalet]

I am sitting at the Dubai airport BC lounge and watching CNN about the supposed deal between Kibaki and Raila. Arriving here after an overnight flight, I was not aware of this deal until early this morning when I read the internet editions of the papers screaming about the deal.

I have read and re-read the agreement between Kibaki and Raila and am more than convinced that it is a deal amongst them to share power rather than to improve on democracy in Kenya. Until we see the wording of the Reconciliation Act, I think it is still too early to call it a deal.

Some of the inherent problems of this arrangements is that whilst the Bill may be good, being an Act of parliament means that it is subject to adulteration in parliament whilst even the proposed entrenchement may be even a bigger hurdle especially with non-ODM MPs who owe Kibaki no allegiance unless it suits them. So what happens if the deal is not passed by parliament? Would you call that exercise of democracy and observance of the rule of law - and would the international community impose sanctions on an institution such as parliament?

The other problem I see with this deal is the wording that the coalition can die if one of the parties pulls out. Since Kibaki is president, if his PNU pulls out of the coalition, what would Raila and his ODM do?

Finally now that all parties are in some coalitions apart from those that do not agree with either PNU and ODM, what happens to opposition in parliament? Who checks the government's excesses? Why do Kenyans think that merely because there is an agreement on paper a government of Kibaki and Raila will succeed?

Perhaps we need to live a lie and just hope that we can cover this facade of peace in media shows, until it explodes on our faces after another 5 years.

[dubois]

I cannot say that I am overly surprised by yesterday's turn of events. I always thought that both sides were playing hard ball but when it came to the crunch they would give in. Kamale, I actually think that this deal will go through. I always disagreed with the likes of Adongo who kept predicting doom and gloom because at the end of the day our leaders are extremely selfish. The likes of Kibaki, Raila, Uhuru and so on have a lot at stake if Kenya becomes a failed state. Despite all the talk these leeches are not willing to lose their multi-billion companies or radically upset the status quo. Now who is talking about a people's revolution???

Dubois

[job]

These are basically unique transitional issues which are not expected to take any premeditated conventional norms, thus it's really subjective to argue for or against a supposed "good" or "bad" deal. Let them make it work. A good starting point is through meticulous and careful wording of the Reconciliation Act and any necessary constitutional amendment(s).

I think that any attempts to dilute or adulterate the spirit of the agreement IN PARLIAMENT (aka RENEGING ON A CLEARLY SIGNED & IMPORTANT AGREEMENT) while drafting the Reconciliation Act 2008 will be a disaster.......have in mind - this STEP is a precursor to many reconciliation, resettlement and reconstruction efforts expected shortly after.

We still have displaced children sleeping out in the cold and the international community may be unenthusiastic to shoulder extra humanitarian burdens.

Parliament has little choice except to pass the necessary bill & amendment(s)- mark these words....every MP may have to account for their vote which is being scrutinized by the entire globe.....and any saboteurs may end up the losers ( whether they are beholden to Kibaki or not, or even Raila in ODM,....many of these MPs and their immediate families may not wish to jeopardize their foreign travel or access to foreign education for their kids, healthcare for families and high-yielding loot safely stashed abroad.) Sanctions WILL TARGET individual MPs and not Parliament.....every individual accounts for their commission or ommission.

On promoting democracy....The office of the PM alongside the Presidency offers one big advantage to the system,....an internal thermostat that self-checks excesses and abuses of executive authority through institutionalised accountability to parliament on a day to day basis - via the office of the PM.

On possibility of one partner pulling out,.....that may just facilitate an early election.....but the likelihood of eitherpartner pulling out under these transition arrangements is limited. They may infact hang together despite their differences for longer than they initially anticipated.

As for the opposition and who checks the government's excesses,.....the Coalition provides several innate self-checking mechanisms......first, the two protagonists check each other from within. It's not about comfort here, but the winner should be the common mwananchi.
The PM and the Presidency check each other,....the PM's regular presence in parliament, accounting on government functions ensures that the legislature checks the executive.

On your last statement, ....we'll we'd rather live what you call a facade than endure more violence and suffering. Let real reforms begin.

Job

[adongo23456]

dubois said:

I cannot say that I am overly surprised by yesterday's turn of events. I always thought that both sides were playing hard ball but when it came to the crunch they would give in. Kamale, I actually think that this deal will go through. I always disagreed with the likes of Adongo who kept predicting doom and gloom because at the end of the day our leaders are extremely selfish. The likes of Kibaki, Raila, Uhuru and so on have a lot at stake if Kenya becomes a failed state. Despite all the talk these leeches are not willing to lose their multi-billion companies or radically upset the status quo. Now who is talking about a people's revolution???

Dubois

Dubois,

Welcome back. I don't know which Adongo you are talking about. May it is my cousin. I a going to have a chat with him. But if you follow my participation in the debate you probably know I have looked at all possibilities at all different turns and in fact I think we have been pretty accurate indicating that the big guns could not risk loosing their land in all out war which essentially would have been over land and nothing to do with democracy.

While some of you folks kept promising us that Annan was coming for tea and Raila would never be this or that we kept reminding everyone that the status quo was not workable. History has vindicated our position. But this is not the time to rehearse old differences. I feel positive about the country today for the first time since Dec 27, 07 when political thieves invaded the land with abandon.

For those still hoping or may be even praying that somehow parliament will scuttle the bill, you are living in lalaland. Parliament and specifically PNU contingent are going to try to dilute the deal but they can never scuttle it. The masses support the deal. The IDPs are now hopeful that their situation will be addressed. All communities even those who may not like the deal 100% are eager to go on with their lives and businesses. M.P's do not live in outer space. They are going to endorse the deal but there are going to be a lot fight in bunge as expected.

The deal is great for democracy in Kenya. This is not about Raila and Kibaki. For the first time the activities af all ministries are going to be open to public scrutiny through parliament. Kenyans will no longer have to rely on cagey and often misleading info from cabinet ministers. They can through their M.P's directly engage the office of the PM to demand answers on the activities in each and every ministry. That is great for the country. In the past ministers did crazy things and as long as they were friends to the president they didn't give a shit what Kenyans said or wanted to know. The president himself only appeared in parliament to open the sessions. Now we are going to have a PM that has to account for cabinet actions and inactions in our bunge. That is fantastic.

The big deal here is that this is only one item in the total package. There are three other items and I am convinced when all is said and done our country will be in a great position to advance into the 21st century with confidence. I think the forces of darkness who have hijacked the country for sometime now have been stopped in their tracks. I hope they are going to give the country a break and let the nation move forward.

There is a lot of work and fights still ahead. Completing the new constitution will be a titanic battle. We will be ready.

adongo

[JAHAATWACH]

Its time to drive this nation foward but with our eyes fixated on the rear view mirror.

[mank]

kamalet said:

.....

I have read and re-read the agreement between Kibaki and Raila and am more than convinced that it is a deal amongst them to share power rather than to improve on democracy in Kenya. Until we see the wording of the Reconciliation Act, I think it is still too early to call it a deal.

.....
The other problem I see with this deal is the wording that the coalition can die if one of the parties pulls out. Since Kibaki is president, if his PNU pulls out of the coalition, what would Raila and his ODM do?

Finally now that all parties are in some coalitions apart from those that do not agree with either PNU and ODM, what happens to opposition in parliament? Who checks the government's excesses? Why do Kenyans think that merely because there is an agreement on paper a government of Kibaki and Raila will succeed?

Perhaps we need to live a lie and just hope that we can cover this facade of peace in media shows, until it explodes on our faces after another 5 years.

I ECHO KAMALET ON EVERY POINT HERE. LET KENYA NOT CELEBRATE A SKIN DEEP VICTORY, IF THIS CAN BE CALLED VICTORY. Kenyans should now demand on the coalition to deliver the constitutional reform they have promised. When that reform is in, then, basi, shangwe na vigelegele kabambe; kabla ya hayo mabandiliko, sherehe nyingi maana yake siyaoni.

The deal leaves gates wide open, for PNU to break out at any time that the party might consider opportune. I am not sure whether ODM is this shortsighted, or if we are missing key details. I hope it is the latter.

Anyway, I am eager to see the main topic becoming the CONSTITUTION. .... and speed is necessary here, or the potentially productive distrust among PNU and ODM will be replaced by the political love that grows when politicians share ugali.

[einstein]

Oh my God, the PNU adherents never stop to amaze! When Kibaki was sworn in at night like a THIEF, and according to me he is a THIEF, they took acres upon acres of space in Jukwaa to justify the THIEF's legitimacy in office!! Now that the whole world and Kenyans have shown them, they are not going to accept the brazen night THEFT lying low, they (PNU choir masters) creep back to Jukwaa and try to paint a grim picture of the signed deal!! Just to let you know, most Kenyans welcomed the deal and if PNU tries to sabotage the deal in ANY way, Kenyans of good will, will be back on the streets!! So please DO NOT even contemplate going there!!!

[mank]

Einstein, look at what Annan, and even Raila have said, since my post, and you will see they are of the same thought as I. Most others (even on this forum) are of the same thought: that the signature is only a means, not an end. Celebrate the means and give up an end, for if you think we have attained what we ought to, then you will not play your part which in itself is part of the means. einstein, einstein, its a brandname ... man, change label.

[einstein]

mank said:

Einstein, look at what Annan, and even Raila have said, since my post, and you will see they are of the same thought as I. Most others (even on this forum) are of the same thought: that the signature is only a means, not an end. Celebrate the means and give up an end, for if you think we have attained what we ought to, then you will not play your part which in itself is part of the means. einstein, einstein, its a brandname ... man, change label.

ALWAYS LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE OF LIFE...... goes a famous song!

Mank,

Now you even get intimidated by my handle, wow!! Get a chill pill mate, it is just a handle! It has got nothing to do with my intellectual prowess if I at all happen to possess any! I'm NOT the real EINSTEIN, so I'm NOT going to stand up. My handle is just what it is, a HANDLE!!! Why do you think I should change it? The last time I checked, the name EINSTEIN was neither patented nor was it some kind of a brand name or trademark if you wish!

Just let us interact, that is what this forum is there for!!!

[mank]

Hi einstein,

You surprised me with a dose of humility on this one. I wont say what I would have said, if you had remained the same einstein you have been all along.

[einstein]

mank said:

Hi einstein,

You surprised me with a dose of humility on this one. I wont say what I would have said, if you had remained the same einstein you have been all along.

Hi Mank,

Why did you get surprised with my humility?! Rest assured, Einstein is a very humble person in both the real world and the virtual one. I did not know that I have been such a thorn in your ass!

If I am a pain in anybody's behinds, it is because the way some Jukwaa members put their arguments across makes me hit the roof every time. Some people here perennially post some half-baked arguments and expect the Jukwaa community to just swallow them as gospel truth! In such cases, I'm left with no option but to tell them that they are a waste of time!!

But in all fairness, I never become personal in my rebuffs and that is why I will always leave Mank with some breathing space even in the height of a heated debate.

May be you want to share your beef with Einstein!?