Obama Invitation to Raila - PNU anxiety

[umoja]

National News

Obama invitation row
Updated on: Saturday, May 09, 2009
Story by: Kipngeno Cheruiyot
....................................................................................................................................................................................

US President Barack Obama has invited Raila Odinga to the White House, sparking off anxiety that pundits say is already stoking the strains within the Grand Coalition government. According to impeccable sources, the visit which is scheduled for between 20th May has set alarm bells off within the ranks of Party of National Unity (PNU). The latest development comes hot in the heels of a similar invitation by the South African government to the PM to attend Jacob Zuma’s inauguration as President later today.

Raila did not travel to South Africa when it become obvious that it could complicate diplomatic etiquette since President Kibaki was also going for the inauguration and that the PM could only travel as a member of presidential entourage. The anticipated visit also comes after the US gave the coalition government through several letters since its formation slightly over a year ago, conditions it must meet if it is to continue enjoying bilateral relations with the Washington. A source told Kenya Times that the revelation of Raila’s invitation to White House sent jitters among PNU officials who are reported to be wondering why the invitation was not to President Kibaki as the Head of State.

An influential PNU legislator who did not wish to be named termed the invitation as “irresponsible” noting that the fact that President Kibaki was kept in the dark over the invitation smacked of ill-intent and expressed reservation about the attention the ODM leader appear to be getting internationally. “There is protocol in the way things are done. Inviting the Prime Minister and leaving out President Kibaki means that either the US does not recognize Mr Kibaki as the Head of State or the invitation can be termed blatantly discriminatory,” said the MP. However, the MP conceded that PNU would have no problem if it turns out that the invitation to Raila was a pre-arranged informal meeting between the two political figures.

Following the revelation, another senior PNU operative who is not a Member of Parliament but sits on the party’s National Governing Council meetings said the issue had been brought to their attention. Said he: “The issue could come up during the PNU retreat where the party will be discussing the discontent and voices of difference of opinion within the coalition,” he told us. PNU leaders under the chairmanship of chairman Prof George Saitoti are converging at the Lake Nakuru Leisure Lodge for a two -day retreat where it will discuss the latest development in the Grand Coalition government especially the row over the leader of House Business Committee and the implications of House Speaker Ken Marende’s ruling that he would chair the agenda setting House organ.

An aide who sought anonymity confirmed the invitation to the prime minister scheduled for May 20, less than a fortnight from today. The aide said Raila will be hosted by President Obama and First Lady Michelle. However, it was not immediately clear how long the visit would last. It was not also clear who among the high ranking government officials, including Cabinet ministers would accompany the PM to the trip. The aide however, concede that the invitation had generated considerable interest and that several ministers and assistant ministers had booked appointments with the PM to discuss the matter.

Efforts to get details on the invitation from Director of Communication in the PM’s office Dennis Onyango were fruitless as he did not get back to us as earlier promised. If the invitation is honoured, Raila will be the first African leader to be hosted by President Obama, a son of Kenyan father whose administration is about 100 days old. Another source told us that Raila’s earlier statement that he would not attend Zuma’s inauguration as a result of other engagements was not factual, adding that the PM had in fact confirmed attendance with air tickets to and from South Africa being set. The hotel where he would have been booked in had also been confirmed.

The source further reported that Raila had been slotted in the programme during the inauguration event and was supposed to have held a meeting with Kenyans in South Africa last evening at an address in Johannesburg. Later today, after the inauguration of Zuma, the PM was to have given a lecture at Pretoria University. It is often a requirement that any government official making a trip abroad is cleared by the Office of the President. It is said that officials at OP did not make the necessary facilitation for the PM to travel, resulting in his cancellation of the South African trip.

It is said that it was after this cancellation that they were informed of the Obama invitation. During his last term in office, former US President George Bush extended a similar invitation to President Kibaki at the White House making him one among the few African leaders ever to receive such an honour. Obama is also reported to hold President Kibaki favourably, arising from the fact that Kibaki as Finance minister in most of the 1980s was Obama Senior’s boss, having gone out of his way to ensure Obama had a job. Mr Obama late last month warned the two principals that political feuds that the coalition had suffered in the previous months put the country in serious jeopardy of renewed violence if the underlying causes were not sorted out.

Through the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Obama wrote to President Kibaki and Prime Minister Raila Odinga urging them to hasten the reform process. Said Obama in the letter: “Kenya and the United States share a long history of corporation and mutual support.” “It is that spirit that I am writing to urge you to intensify your efforts to advance the reforms and accountability agenda agreed by all parties last year,” added the letter in part.

It at the same time decried the slow pace of the reform process, saying underlying causes of the 2007 post-election violence posed instability to the detriment of close to 40 million Kenyans as well as shared interests of the two countries. Obama in the letter was firm that the Government must also hold those responsible for perpetrating corruption as well as suspects in post-poll chaos. Corrupt elements he noted should be weeded out while a special tribunal to try perpetrators of violence is set up. “The United Sates deeply values its relations with Kenya. We stand ready to support your efforts to accelerate the reform and lay the ground work for a peaceful future,” added Mrs Clinton in the letter.

Given Kenya’s geo-strategic importance and as the regional economic hub, the international community has maintained interest in the coalition government that was brokered by former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan. The latest stalemate over HBC which remains unresolved has been fuelled by differences over who should hold sway in determining crucial government business. At the heart of the conflict is the House Business Committee (HBC) - the House organ that sets the agenda for parliamentary debate. The deadlock in Parliament was a culmination of weeks of suspicion between the two principals and their brigades. Early last month, PNU and ODM leaders congregated at the Kilaguni Lodge, to explore ways of managing the coalition but the two parties could not agree on the agenda and the talks collapsed.

[gulavi]

Well. Im not Surprised. A lot is going on in the background. more to come. Sit back and watch the movie or movies.

Ongalo Makokha

[gulavi]

Wajinga Should by now realize that all Inteligence informations iko kwa mkono ya nani Does a thief really really need explanations as to why He actuaaaallllyyy Stole. This is new, very very new, even to foolish me.

Ongalo Makokha

[umoja]

Gulavi,

I think you are right on your first statement above that a lot is going on in the background.

On the White House invitation, I am almost sure that Bwana Wetangula has already asked for a clarification from the US Embassy, on the nature of the Obama\Raila meeting. It will be interesting to see a press release from the White House in Washington or some statement from the US ambassador in Nairobi.

But more interesting for me will be the reaction from PNU if such a statement from the US was issued. What will happen for sure is we will be treated to a"good cop\bad cop" show from PNU if the Obama\Raila meeting is real. One part of PNU will be fuming publicly while implying all manner of ill intent. The second part - most likely through the VP or Foreign Minister will take the higher moral ground afterwards. Saying something like ..
Kenya has a good relationship with the US and it is perfectly OK for the PM to visit the White House...or something along those lines.

One thing PNU can not afford to do is to be seen collectively rubbing the US White House the wrong way. I think Raila and ODM's response will be to do what President Kibaki does so well. Say nothing !

So let's wait and see what happens.

Umoja.

[man]

All those who still doubt that Kibaki's presidency is not recognized around the world (except of course in parts of Uganda) now have their answer loud and clear. And mark you Raila has had a smilar visit with the British PM. PNU's reaction or lact thereof will be very interesting to watch/read/hear.

[adongo23456]

So why did they block the PM from going to South Africa? Just because the old frog was not invited? It seems the PM had to do the diplomatic thing and give some fake story. I think Raila made a good move on that. The last thing we want is a situation we drag Kenya's internal problems to other countries. Teh world knows Kibaki is a political thief and nobody wants to get mixed up with him. But if they get as desperate as they are right now, it is going to be very hard for other countries to deal with us. The world of diplomacy is a quagmire. Even President Obama as much as he knows what is going on would not to be directly dragged into the internal politics of Kenya.

These PNU idiots are getting too much. At some point they may get exactly what they are asking for. They are following a politically dead leader and they want the country to follow that path with them. Now they have Mr. Error running the finance ministry. This bull.shit has to stop.

[man]

Doesn't Kibaki feel ashamed attending a very colourful inauguration ceremony in S. Africa which is done in full view of the world and attended by dignitaries from all over, yet his was the direct opposite???

[umoja]

Man,
If you look at it from the point of view of Kibaki's handlers, attending these types of functions are very important. They legitimize in the eyes of the world President Kibaki's legitimacy as the duly elected President of Kenya. That is why his supporters like Uhuru never miss a chance to tell ODM to forget "stolen presidency and elections". This need to reinforce the President's legitimacy may partially answer Adongo's question of why they stopped Raila from going to Zuma's inauguration.
Umoja

[job]

On the SA issue - it is simple. All Foreign Affairs bureaucrats organizing the Zuma inauguration in SA are still Mbeki people. Mbeki has issues with Raila - precisely for having been close to Zuma and having criticised him over his role (or lack thereof) in the Zimbabwe crisis.

Mbeki ensured the two election thieves Kibaki and Mugabe are feted at the exclusion of Raila and Tzvangirai. That was his prerogative and he did as he pleased.

There is no big deal, now that Zuma is president, he can invite Raila in his own official capacity whenever he wishes by giving instructions to his juniors at the SA Foreign affairs Ministry to facilitate the trip, period. Kibaki has no control over who invites Raila to their countries.

When Gordon Brown invited Raila for a state visit, he did so in his own capacity as British premier. If Obama wishes to do so, he will invite him as well. There should be no big deal.

As a matter of fact, if I was Kibaki I shouldn't mind any invitation for the premier by other leaders perceived to be close to him for the sake of the country's benefit. As it stands, he is currently being seen as selfishly blocking Kenya's possible gains all at the alter of egoism.

[kamalet]

If Obama wishes to invite Raila to see him, this would not be a problem and actually there is nothing wrong with this.

However, Obama is simply too wise to know the problems of ignoring protocal and if this invitation is indeed true, then you can be sure that the State Department, Kenyan Foreign Affairs ministries and the embassies in Washington and Nairobi are involved in the planning of the trip.

Raila is a senior minister in the Kenya government and a meeting with the president of the USA cannot be equated to the shoddy arrangements done for the PM where he struggled with nusu kapeti and without a loo!

As for the SA trip, Mbeki had no say in the invitation and if you want to blame anyone for the alleged cockup in the alleged invitation of the PM to Zuma's inauguration, then look at Zuma's ex-wife and Wetangula!

If truth be told however, Raila's invitation was through some powerful and senior pro-ANC businessmen rather than a government invitation. The protocals of two senior Kenyan government representatives was the sticking point that led to Raila not doing the trip.

[man]

Kamalet,
Please enlighten me on something here. On the PM's invite to SA, What is the connection between Zuma's ex-wife and Wetangula in the whole saga. Sorry but I have an appetite for juicy story today.

[politicalmaniac]

Zuma is a polygamist? 3 wives? that's what I thought..ex-wives? Wetangula?

[umoja]

Man,
I am not sure whether your comments on Zuma's ex-wife is a "tounge in cheek" question.
In any case, the former foreign affairs minister ,Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, is Zuma's ex-wife. Wetangula then was her counterpart in her previous portfolio.
Umoja.

[omundu]

Zuma actually has more than three wives. Its the first wife who accompanied him to the innauguration. But thats besides the point.
Kamale. Railas invitation was not by some top ANC business man. Raila was invited as a guest of the ANC. read Government. The "top businessman" you mention is a member of the top decision making organ of the ANC (NEC). He cannot, out of his whims just invite someone to a state function. He will be reprimanded by the NEC ( ANC does not reason like PNU bana)
Now to my point; Both Leaders of the coalition in Zimbabwe were invited and they attended without any mishap in regard to protocal issues. They even walked and sat together and presented a united front.
That is a country that formed their coalition way after kenya and it seemed/seems to work in regard to protocal. What makes us different. Why should we create issues to prevent the other partner in the coalition to attend?
RAO is an equal partner with kibaki in the coalition and there is no single head of state but two and if Obama invites Raila instead of Kibaki there should be no qualms because RAO as an equal partner also represents Kenyans.
As Ongalo Makokha would say " chisoni chingali"

[umoja]

SUNDAY NATION,
Raila tour of US puts Kenya in the spotlight
By KEVIN KELLEY and KENNETH OGOSIA,Posted Saturday, May 16 2009 at 19:33
www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/598962/-/item/0/-/qki7i5z/-/index.html

Prime Minister Raila Odinga leaves the country on Monday for a three-week tour of the United States.

It will be the first time that Mr Odinga is visiting the US after the election of President Obama, whose father was Kenyan.

It was, however, not clear whether Mr Odinga will travel to Washington D.C., the seat of government or meet US President Barack Obama.

The White House could not confirm whether Mr Odinga would meet President Obama or any of his senior advisers during the visit.

Kenya’s ambassador to the US, Mr Peter Ogego, said the prime minister was not expected in Washington.

“Raila isn’t coming to Washington at all,” Mr Ogego said.

But both the ambassador and Prime Minister’s Press Service director Dennis Onyango confirmed the PM will be in Chicago to speak at a business meeting and at the State University of New York at Buffalo to give a lecture.

“It is true the PM will be going to the US on Monday,” Mr Onyango told the Sunday Nation by phone.

Mr Odinga will speak at the Global Business Coalition meeting in Chicago on Wednesday, May 20, and later on Saturday at a graduation ceremony at the State University of New York at Buffalo.

Kenyan professor Makau Mutua is dean of faculty of law at the university. Mr Odinga will deliver a lecture entitled, Governance and Democratic Transition in Africa.

“Hosting Prime Minister Odinga and conferring honorary degrees to Irene Khan, a leader of the international human rights movement, and Mason Davis, a champion of civil rights in America, is a testament to the UB Law School’s strong tradition of teaching and scholarship in human rights law,” said Prof Mutua

Mr Odinga’s visit comes at a time when Kenya is being watched keenly by Washington over the implementation of the National Accord that ended the 2007 post-election violence.

Mr Johnnie Carson, the US assistant secretary of state for African affairs, was in Kenya last week and met President Kibaki and Mr Odinga.

Mr Carson, a former US ambassador in Nairobi, said there were “enormous concerns” in Washington that the grand coalition government appeared lethargic, and that the Accord was not being implemented fully.

“Washington’s fear is that failure to implement the Accord could undermine Kenya’s political stability,” Mr Carson said.

Washington is also concerned by the spate of extrajudicial killings and impunity, he said. He asked the government to implement critical reforms to ensure the country did not experience violence again.

“You know how strongly people feel about Kenya. If there is another crisis here, it would be enormously devastating. If the country does not make economic progress, there could be more violence in the next elections,” he said. “To have economic progress, you must have political stability and punish impunity.”

Mr Carson observed that Mr Odinga had a long history of fighting for democracy, including serving jail terms for his beliefs, and asked him (Mr Odinga) to stand up for Kenyans.

“This cannot be the democracy you fought for when people are being killed by the State. It cannot be what you went to detention for...” Mr Carson told Mr Odinga.

[politicalmaniac]

R will meet Pres Obama when the time is right.

[kamalet]

May 19, 2009 20:00:47 GMT 3 politicalmaniac said:

R will meet Pres Obama when the time is right.

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

We had some excited souls here in Jukwaa and when I pointed out that it is simply not possible for the PM to meet with Obama without proper protocal some fellows thought I am one of the PNU fellows miffed at the possibility of such a meeting. Well it is not happening and that is even a worse loss for Kenya when the third highest ranking Kenyan visits the US and still cannot get to see the powers that be in the US.

Finally and on a separate note, I am glad that Obama is not visiting Kenya. A visit to Kenya by any US president would always be an important milestone in the relationship between the two countries. But I have had the misfortune of being in an African country when a US president visited. If Obama were to come to Kenya, then I would not be anywhere within 150 kilometres of wherever he would be visiting. The disruption to ordinary people's lives is unnerving.

In Uganda when Bill Clinton visited, the US Secret Service had all those beautiful trees that lined the Kampala to Entebbe road cut down so that no one (monkeys with stones and grenades) could hide in those trees. Then Clinton arrived in Entebbe and took a helicopter ride to Kampala. Mobile phone service died and no go zones created! I just did not enjoy my stay in Kampala those few days!

In Tanzania a story is told of how the secret service had sniffer dogs run through Mkapa's presidential car!

Well you can imagine the chaos Kenya would be in on account of such a visit!

[genius]

I don't even see what the big deal is about Obama visiting Kenya. He is just another human being with normal biological functions.

If visiting Kenya is not in his plans soon, he should just say so. Stop giving us that tired line about use needing to get our act together before he visits. He is not God. Plus he is visiting Egypt for whatever it's worth. I may have missed watching Al Jazeera the week past but I do not think Egypt suddenly developed better democratic credentials than Kenya in that one week. They still have that dictator Hosni Mubarak who is grooming his son to inherit his 'throne'. Yet Obama will meet Mubarak.

And the Kenyan media should stop getting over-excited over nothing. Just because Obama is not coming to Kenya, they baptise it a snub. Has he snubbed South Africa too, and Botswana and Namibia? We need better journalists and editors in Kenya.

The US government needs to stop taking us for fools. Fine, we love Obama and all, but we shall not take disrespect and hypocrisy from his administration.

[deyiengs]

May 20, 2009 11:00:15 GMT 3 kamalet said:

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

We had some excited souls here in Jukwaa and when I pointed out that it is simply not possible for the PM to meet with Obama without proper protocal some fellows thought I am one of the PNU fellows miffed at the possibility of such a meeting. Well it is not happening and that is even a worse loss for Kenya when the third highest ranking Kenyan visits the US and still cannot get to see the powers that be in the US.

Finally and on a separate note, I am glad that Obama is not visiting Kenya. A visit to Kenya by any US president would always be an important milestone in the relationship between the two countries. But I have had the misfortune of being in an African country when a US president visited. If Obama were to come to Kenya, then I would not be anywhere within 150 kilometres of wherever he would be visiting. The disruption to ordinary people's lives is unnerving.

In Uganda when Bill Clinton visited, the US Secret Service had all those beautiful trees that lined the Kampala to Entebbe road cut down so that no one (monkeys with stones and grenades) could hide in those trees. Then Clinton arrived in Entebbe and took a helicopter ride to Kampala. Mobile phone service died and no go zones created! I just did not enjoy my stay in Kampala those few days!

In Tanzania a story is told of how the secret service had sniffer dogs run through Mkapa's presidential car!

Well you can imagine the chaos Kenya would be in on account of such a visit!

Who is the 1st and the 2nd? ;D ;D ;D

I hope you're not ranking the "duly" erected prezzo and the kaaloser as the 1st and 2nd respectively

Typical MKM talk! (Yes nimesema)

When will you folks learn surely?

[kamalet]

May 21, 2009 7:51:49 GMT 3 deyiengs said:

May 20, 2009 11:00:15 GMT 3 kamalet said:

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

We had some excited souls here in Jukwaa and when I pointed out that it is simply not possible for the PM to meet with Obama without proper protocal some fellows thought I am one of the PNU fellows miffed at the possibility of such a meeting. Well it is not happening and that is even a worse loss for Kenya when the third highest ranking Kenyan visits the US and still cannot get to see the powers that be in the US.

Finally and on a separate note, I am glad that Obama is not visiting Kenya. A visit to Kenya by any US president would always be an important milestone in the relationship between the two countries. But I have had the misfortune of being in an African country when a US president visited. If Obama were to come to Kenya, then I would not be anywhere within 150 kilometres of wherever he would be visiting. The disruption to ordinary people's lives is unnerving.

In Uganda when Bill Clinton visited, the US Secret Service had all those beautiful trees that lined the Kampala to Entebbe road cut down so that no one (monkeys with stones and grenades) could hide in those trees. Then Clinton arrived in Entebbe and took a helicopter ride to Kampala. Mobile phone service died and no go zones created! I just did not enjoy my stay in Kampala those few days!

In Tanzania a story is told of how the secret service had sniffer dogs run through Mkapa's presidential car!

Well you can imagine the chaos Kenya would be in on account of such a visit!

Who is the 1st and the 2nd? ;D ;D ;D

I hope you're not ranking the "duly" erected prezzo and the kaaloser as the 1st and 2nd respectively

Typical MKM talk! (Yes nimesema)

When will you folks learn surely?

Here is what Section 17 of the Constitution of Kenya says:

17. (1) There shall be a Cabinet consisting of the President, the Vice-President, Prime Minister, two Deputy Prime Ministers and the other Ministers.

Who is ranked number three in the pecking order? Kamale did not say it...the law just did!

[deyiengs]

May 21, 2009 8:47:15 GMT 3 kamalet said:

17. (1) There shall be a Cabinet consisting of the President, the Vice-President, Prime Minister, two Deputy Prime Ministers and the other Ministers.

Who is ranked number three in the pecking order? Kamale did not say it...the law just did!

What? Is that it?

Is that Section 17 being interpreted as: prezzo is rank one, Vice-prezzo is rank 2 and prime minister is rank 3? I don't have a lawyer-ish brain, so i cant interpret it vizuri, but please help.
That might be the reason why kalonzo is always trying to take his "rightful" position. I seriously ignored this part.
If that's the case then kumbe you are telling the truth.

but something tells me that this is so childish and petty.
And i think i can also say that whoever wrote that Section 17 simply wanted to group like terms together,
eg. 2x + 3y + 4x + 4y is the same as 4x + 2x + 4y + 3y, (commutative law) hence 17. (1) There shall be a Cabinet consisting of the Prime Minister, the Vice-President, two Deputy Prime Ministers, President and the other Ministers. is just the same as what's there now, ama?
but just like i said, I didn't go to a law school. So could you convince me that my interpretation is screwed.

Do you remember those days when VOK news, both radio and TV, had mtukufu Rais, Daniel Toroitich arap Moi, baba wa taifa, as the first item, always. On Sunday nights i could turn off the volume of the TV and say EXACTLY what the news reader said: "Mtukufu Rais, Daniel Toroitich arap Moi, leo alijiunga na waumini katika kanisa la AIC la shule ya upili ya Moi high School Kabarak...." Me and my sisters used to sing in unison at times, each one trying to out-do the other, wow!
There was talk that if any news readers does anything other than read baba wa taifa's news first, he would not only be fired, but would see the wrath of GK. That was ONE of the things that made Moi feel like he is first rank. I'm told Hayati Kenyatta did the same. Must you be reading from the same script?

[kamalet]

May 21, 2009 10:01:19 GMT 3 deyiengs said:

May 21, 2009 8:47:15 GMT 3 kamalet said:

17. (1) There shall be a Cabinet consisting of the President, the Vice-President, Prime Minister, two Deputy Prime Ministers and the other Ministers.

Who is ranked number three in the pecking order? Kamale did not say it...the law just did!

What? Is that it?

Is that Section 17 being interpreted as: prezzo is rank one, Vice-prezzo is rank 2 and prime minister is rank 3? I don't have a lawyer-ish brain, so i cant interpret it vizuri, but please help.
That might be the reason why kalonzo is always trying to take his "rightful" position. I seriously ignored this part.
If that's the case then kumbe you are telling the truth.

but something tells me that this is so childish and petty.
And i think i can also say that whoever wrote that Section 17 simply wanted to group like terms together,
eg. 2x + 3y + 4x + 4y is the same as 4x + 2x + 4y + 3y, (commutative law) hence 17. (1) There shall be a Cabinet consisting of the Prime Minister, the Vice-President, two Deputy Prime Ministers, President and the other Ministers. is just the same as what's there now, ama?
but just like i said, I didn't go to a law school. So could you convince me that my interpretation is screwed.

Do you remember those days when VOK news, both radio and TV, had mtukufu Rais, Daniel Toroitich arap Moi, baba wa taifa, as the first item, always. On Sunday nights i could turn off the volume of the TV and say EXACTLY what the news reader said: "Mtukufu Rais, Daniel Toroitich arap Moi, leo alijiunga na waumini katika kanisa la AIC la shule ya upili ya Moi high School Kabarak...." Me and my sisters used to sing in unison at times, each one trying to out-do the other, wow!
There was talk that if any news readers does anything other than read baba wa taifa's news first, he would not only be fired, but would see the wrath of GK. That was ONE of the things that made Moi feel like he is first rank. I'm told Hayati Kenyatta did the same. Must you be reading from the same script?

I thought the constitution was written in simple english? There must have been a reason for placing them in that order.

[genius]

May 21, 2009 11:15:20 GMT 3 kamalet said:

I thought the constitution was written in simple english? There must have been a reason for placing them in that order.

That's very stupid and shallow reasoning. I guess you are going to use the same logic to proclaim that letter A is more important than letter G because A appears first in the alphabet.

If you feel like a High School debate, take a trip to Wakulima Secondary School in the CBD.

[kamalet]

May 21, 2009 12:02:09 GMT 3 genius said:

May 21, 2009 11:15:20 GMT 3 kamalet said:

I thought the constitution was written in simple english? There must have been a reason for placing them in that order.

That's very stupid and shallow reasoning. I guess you are going to use the same logic to proclaim that letter A is more important than letter G because A appears first in the alphabet.

If you feel like a High School debate, take a trip to Wakulima Secondary School in the CBD.

Now I see you are a judge of reasoning!!!! Do you even know why it is called the alphabet in the first instance and why it is in that order?

But since you cannot seem to understand, the letter Z is ranked 26th in the alphabet...does that ranking make it less powerful and just what would be the measure of power?

That is why this country is so poort...people like you and your friend pmaniac have your heads so deeply stuck in your behinds you cannot engage anyone without insults, but as you by now know, you are always ignored!

[genius]

May 21, 2009 12:24:02 GMT 3 kamalet said:

May 21, 2009 12:02:09 GMT 3 genius said:

That's very stupid and shallow reasoning. I guess you are going to use the same logic to proclaim that letter A is more important than letter G because A appears first in the alphabet.

If you feel like a High School debate, take a trip to Wakulima Secondary School in the CBD.

Now I see you are a judge of reasoning!!!! Do you even know why it is called the alphabet in the first instance and why it is in that order?

But since you cannot seem to understand, the letter Z is ranked 26th in the alphabet...does that ranking make it less powerful and just what would be the measure of power?

That is why this country is so poort...people like you and your friend pmaniac have your heads so deeply stuck in your behinds you cannot engage anyone without insults, but as you by now know, you are always ignored!

I am not seeking attention from empty-headed folks like you, pea-brain. There is not such thing as ranking in the alphabet, just a listing of letters. The letter A is listed before letter Z but it does not make letter A rank higher than letter Z.

The real trouble with our country is clowns like you with their greasy heads stuck deep inside kibaki's behinds, always seeking to engage more intelligent folks in petty arguments, ati something is listed ahead of another thing so it ranks higher... Pure BS.