|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 3, 2006 22:28:17 GMT 3
A Discordant Digital Intervention byOnyango Oloo in the Kenyan CapitalFIRST DRAFT-UNEDITED [/i] Yash Tandon, World famous Ugandan Activist Scholar SOURCE: www.transcend.org/t_database/articles.php?ida=453[/quote] 1.0. Contemplating the Rabid Mobs Aching to Skin Oloo AliveAs I compose these lines, I am wearing dark sunglasses in the middle of the day, complete with a bowler hat and false beard, disguised as a Jesuit monk in a deep blue cassock, entrenched in clandestinity, moving from safe house to safe house using an assumed Buddhist name in a manner of speaking, keeping one step ahead of the enraged lynch mobs- consisting chiefly of my political fellow travelers- itching to dispatch me to the nearest mortuary because of my temerity in expressing an opinion, albeit an unexpected and thoroughly controversial viewpoint. You see, the other day I opened my mouth on a forum called JUKWAA and stated that this was exactly the right time to defend the Kibaki regime and added in good measure that those who were cheerily ululating as the government was mired in even more muck deserved castigation. What I did was the equivalent of a hapless football fan from the 1970s going to the Abaluhya FC section of the City Stadium on Nairobi’s Jogoo Road and yelping happily: “Gor Biro! Yawne Yo!”For the non- Kenyans ogling this: To find a “progressive” Kenyan expressing any kind of “support” for the Mwai regime at this point in time is equivalent to an American in post 911 USA suggesting that Osama bin Laden is one of the world’s most misunderstood democrats. I have not been offended by the cacophony of cat calls blared my way- merely amused by the mob justice mentality of my compatriots. If they had bothered to actually READ what I said, they would have discovered that nowhere do I give succour to the kleptomaniacs in the Kibaki cabinet nor do I endorse any of their thieving proclivities- on the contrary, I have been among the most consistent advocates excoriating the Kibaki-NAK cabal for its penchant for vice and graft-long before it became fashionable among its former apologists and current grave diggers. Whatever the case, I did promise my readers a longer treatise of my original succinct dissenting comment. For some, the following will perhaps be a much needed “explanation” which will restore their confidence in me; for others, it will be conclusive evidence that I have at long last gone absolutely and completely bonkers. For me, it will be just the latest affirmation of my long held political views. CONTINUED...
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 3, 2006 22:32:10 GMT 3
2.0. Another Take on Mwiraria’s Exit and Awori’s Reluctance to Follow Suit...
People have been falling over themselves praising Daudi Mwiraria for doing the honourable thing by stepping aside as the country’s finance minister in order to allow investigations into the Anglo-Leasing Scandal to continue.
What a waste of human empathy.
For those Kenyans whose political analysis is entirely anchored by what they see in the news headlines, it is understandable perhaps for them to be so gullible.
Ati Mwiraria “resigned”.
Says Who?
Yes we know the bespectacled, formerly respected and for weeks bedraggled pint sized Kibaki point man did read out a statement saying he had resigned yada yada yada.
But did he leave out of his own accord?
Was he pushed?
Actually he was dragged kicking and screaming from Treasury House- in effect.
Let me pause so that you can recover fully from yet another gasping and blinking epidemic.
Why should you believe me?
Take a look at this:
The People Daily, Thursday, February 2, 2006, pp 1-2.
I am pretty sure there will be some diehards and blowhards in denial at the overt imperialist machinations in forcing Mwiraria out.
How about Moody Awori’s avuncular refusal to buckle under the pressure of the media created storm?
Well, first of all he is the deputy CEO in an outfit that has perfected the art of acting with complete impunity. He has no moral qualms whatsoever, even though it is hardly a mystery about his role in the Anglo Fleecing scandal.
More importantly he was telling his adversaries that he knew the game they were playing. In singling out Maina Kiai, the Vice President was reminding the activist lawyer with the well-known distaste for the “political class” to apply the same hallowed human rights tenets about natural justice, due process and so on that had made him a name at the KHRC and the international human rights circuit. A second subliminal dart was being hurled in the direction of the jackal named Musikari Kombo basically reminding the FORD-Kenya leader that perhaps the vacancy for the VP slot was perhaps not yet open.
CONTINUED>>>
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 3, 2006 22:34:36 GMT 3
3.0. Kamale’s Bullet Points
The Nairobi-based netter called "Kamale" is notable for a few striking qualities, two of which have earned him a section in this digital essay:
He is probably the staunchest defender of the Kibaki-NAK regime in cyberspace;
He and Onyango Oloo differ on almost each and every topic under the sun.
Here is the kicker:
Right now he is probably the only person on the universe who is defending and affirming Oloo’s discordant notes on the latest chapter of the long running Anglo Fleecing soap opera.
Now this could be for one of two possible reasons:
Onyango Oloo has followed in the foot steps of his former Butere MP and sneaked into State House for a sumptuous meal of political ugali;
Or
Onyango Oloo and Kamale happen to be RIGHT in their assessment.
As hordes of online co-discussants scramble to commission a Kenyan Sherlock Holmes to unearth evidence of Oloo selling out his principles, let me regurgitate Kamale’s bullet points:
I for one, would be interested in seeing a thorough debunking of the above six points.
CONTINUED>>>>>>
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 3, 2006 22:37:25 GMT 3
4.0. The Why Now ConundrumJohn Githongo has been living in a secure cave in Oxford possibly sustained by a steady diet of canned beans and mineral water and other survivalist paraphernalia. He probably became a Trappist Monk in the process judging by the ostensible vow of SILENCE which punctuated the period between his exit and his uproarious chatter box transmigrifaction over the last few weeks. I mean here is a high profile Kenyan who left Kenya fearing for his life according to very credible and impeccable independent sources. He goes to a country that is literally an overseas province of Kenya in terms of the number of Kenyans and ex-Kenyans domiciled there. In his wisdom, he shuns not only this community of fellow compatriots- he remains hermetically sealed from his former scribes in arms, uttering nary a word about the infamous Anglo Leasing scandal that almost cost him his life. Maybe the man they call the Big Man likes economizing on words, savouring them for a special occasion. Whatever. The fact is that this son of Kenya only re-opens his trap in a setting framed by our neo-colonial masters. He does not appear to consult with any of the Bob Awours, Abdul Motes, Shiraz Durranis and other long time, politically active Kenyan residents of the UK. Oh no. His conduit is the rarefied circles of the British academic and media establishments and he lowers himself to communicate to his fellow Kenyans via a fax machine. His devastating critique is soon followed by incendiary op-eds by the one and only Sir Edward Clay and soon echoed by the blood stained Bush Administration hawk and current World Bank supremo, Paul Wolfowitz. Githongo’s lawyer and POLITICAL adviser? Guess what? The good American based professor Makau wa Mutua- former apologist of the NAK gang turned implacable critic. Who are his local designated hitters and pinch runners? Future Presidential candidate Maina Kiai and newly crowned Transparency Kenya ED Mwalimu Mati. His preferred local media outlet? The Kibaki supporting NAKTION. What stopped John Githongo from sharing his knowledge with literally hundreds of Kenyan anti-graft campaigners inside and outside Kenya almost two years ago when the information was still very hot? I remember some of us were trying our best to get to the bottom of that cesspool as you can see from this 2004 blog entry: demokrasia-kenya.blogspot.com/2004/07/expose-these-gagulas-nab-matapeli.htmlAnd Oloo was one of many, many Kenyans who would have appreciated Githongo’s efforts more had they been made earlier. In fact, I am going to argue that by the mere fact that he sat on this information for this long allowing the Anglo Leasing hoodlums to wipe out their thieving tracks and perhaps destroy crucial evidence, John Githongo himself is guilty of participating in the cover up that he is now allegedly exposing. He may or may not have been a conscious instrument of British foreign policy but he is certainly serving those interests very effectively right now. More than that, his lone ranger information hoarding has effectively undermined the very structures and networks of Kenya’s anti-corruption contingent who had to wait for the royal assent from Monsieur Githongo on some of the crucial morsels of information that he has, to borrow Michela Wrong’s words, been ’’drip feeding’’ famished Kenyans hungry for the latest leaked paragraph from his secret diary. One would have expected that John Githongo, a by-product of Kenya’s mass democratic struggles of the 1980s and 1990s and a scion of our country’s sometimes feisty and fearless civil society would have chanelled his campaign through mass democratic channels. And being a well-respected journalist, what prevented him from leaking the contents of his diary to his former Kenyan colleagues soon after his arrival in the United Kingdom? CONTINUED>>>>
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 3, 2006 22:39:19 GMT 3
5.0. The Kibaki Regime Should Be Brought Down By...
The people who brought it up. If the British had their way, Uhuru Kenyatta would be the current President of Kenya. And the same angry Brits who rightfully banished the obnoxious Murungaru from stepping on their soil spent two and half decades either condoning or turning a blind eye to Daniel arap Moi’s political banks, Goldenberg, politically motivated clashes and what have you. These are the same Brits who are embroiled in a cabinet level corruption scandal almost every other year.
Today they are the conquistadors of Kenyan vice unleashing the bazookas against Kibaki’s administration.
Not that the Kibaki regime has any right to anyone’s sympathies. Onyango Oloo has consistently called for Kenyans to remove the cabal from power from as far back as 2003 and as recently as last week. This is a regime that has refused to listen to the people who voted it to power and the tax payers who sustain it.
No machozi ya mamba from Oloo for this outfit.
|
|
|
Post by miguna on Feb 3, 2006 22:39:45 GMT 3
This is hogwash Oloo.
Go back and debate Kenyans on the proper thread.
-Miguna-
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 3, 2006 22:43:04 GMT 3
6.0. If Regime Change Was Wrong in Iraq, It is Wrong in Kenya TooHere is the skinny on the concept of regime change for newbie political junkies: SOURCE: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regime_changeNow some wags and pundits may aver that Kenya is facing no imminent Anglo-American military invasion. Which is completely besides the point. Which imperialist needs an army to topple a paper weight clique such as Kibaki’s? All one needs apparently is just a fax machine. The other thing is that regime change can be partial, it can be gradual or it can be deferred. The question that I think would be more relevant is why on earth would any imperialist want to overthrow a friendly pro-Western regime such as Kibaki’s? Well, for starters, it is beginning to windowshop elsewhere, in easterly directions if you may. More importantly, the geo-political regional centrality of Kenya in East and Central Africa may be causing jitters to folks in Whitehall, the White House and elsewhere. Look: peace and stability is slowly returning to resource rich Sudan and potentially oily Somalia. Kenya itself has struck pay dirt when it comes to the same black gold. The apprehension about a resurgence of Wahabbi driven Islamic militancy in Eastern Africa may be causing some disquiet to Western Islamophobes pacing the corridors of imperialist power, wondering if the regime in Nairobi could contain any uprisinng or protest movement in Kenya which has been tagged as a possible hub for anti-Western religious militants. Besides, who are these other guys waiting in the wings? Are they totally aligned to the West? For me those would be the motivating factors to engineer regime change in Nairobi- if the donor community became convinced that the Kibaki administration no longer has a social/political base or enough spine to protect their long term interests. It certainly would not be driven by a new zealotry against corruption. Having lived in North America for sometime, I am not convinced that the Enron bankrolled and Haliburton endowed Bush administration is falling over itself to become a global anti-vice superstar. When some of us sound warning bells against possible regime change, we are greeted by cat calls and jeers. That is OK- I have yet to meet an individual who was struck dead by verbal abuse. What perhaps some of our detractors should heed is this small point: Once you release the Djinni from the Chupa, you will not be able to stuff him back. When you invite outsiders to come and resolve your domestic problems, be aware of the precedent you are setting. CONTINUED>>>>>
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 3, 2006 22:44:50 GMT 3
7.0. So How Should Kenyans Wrestle the Anglo-Leasing Octopus?
By first of all seeing it as a POLITICAL and DEMOCRATIC question, rather than simply a criminal or moral act.
Anglo-Leasing happened BECAUSE Kibaki and his thugs REFUSED to ratify a new democratic constitutition that would have put in place legal mechanism against state engineered graft. This is NOT the place to rehash how this could have been done.
Anglo-Leasing also happened because the Kenyan people allowed themselves to be demobilized after the frenzy of the Unbwogable Campaign against Moi and KANU.What we need in Kenya is permanent, wananchi based DEMOCRATIC VIGILANCE- which will not ALLOW a John Githongo to sit on vital information for two years.
Anglo-Leasing also happened because of the neo-liberal policies we have been following as a country. The diktats of the IMF and the World Bank to privatize and gut the public sector has encouraged a new breed of savvy, politically connected bandits who know where the new opportunities for plunder lie.
We can wring our hands from here to eternity, but unless we resolve the historical problems of national independence and national democratic institutions; unless we de-anchor ourselves from the Bretton Woods toxic panaceas, we will continue to not only wallow in poverty, wracked by annual famine scares, bedevilled by ministerial faux pas after ministerial faux pas and revisited by Anglo Leasing scandal after Anglo Leasing scandal as the new elites in power try to outdo their predecessors, just like the Kibaki gang tried to top Daniel arap Moi’s Goldenberg.
As for now, it is up to the wananchi to retake the initiative and place the campaign against corruption within the wider context of the fight for a new Kenya.
By the way, I had wanted to list the names of at least ten Kenyans some forces in the West are grooming for future leadershipin this country and talk about their alleged ”handler” plus the KShs. 500,000,000 that they have sunk into the project.
At least three of those names have been frequently mentioned in the media over the last two weeks.
But judging from the way my fellow Kenyans treat alternative information, I am just saying what the heck, why bother for now. Onyango Oloo Nairobi, Kenya.
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 3, 2006 23:16:48 GMT 3
I wonder why you had to call my essay "hogwash" before you had finished reading it.
Have some tolerance for opinions other than your own.
You can hardly force me to "debate" you know.
Onyango Oloo Nairobi, Kenya
|
|
|
Post by maina on Feb 4, 2006 1:21:54 GMT 3
Oloo, some questions on certain issues that you have raised herein are legitimate. For instance, you're bewildered and inquisitve as to why Githongo took a good two years and some days to distinctly speak up. But doesn't he give his reasons on the first page of his report though?
Oloo, let's be subjective bwana! You and I know who the West's largest trading partners are........the East! .....the Chinas, Indias, and the "arab world". In fact, Western countries have a maddening craze for "eatern" products. One needs to only recall the 2004 Kerry-For-President campaign here in the US to confirm that. Remember slogans and rebel-yells against exporting jobs, the China-Walmart syndrome, the huge budget deficit, et cetera? Why are you then blunderingly implying here that Kenya is supposedly inferior and cannot and should not trade with the likes of say China or even Sudan? Isn't China today the world's biggest economy? Or is China way too for big Kenya to tradewith independently? Ala!
Oloo, how then do you dauntlessly asseverate that the controlling cause of your indictment against the these "imperialists" is due to the fact that Kenya has chosen to "windowshop elsewhere, in easterly directions if you may"?
Oloo, let's also be subjective about Anglo Leasing. If I had the time saa hii, you have no idea how many parables and cliffhangers I would tell you right here about the Goldenberg dynamite! I'm serious.....I can't even count them.
Oloo, I'll tell you this; two and two always made four - it never made seven (except for mathematicians when they abridge calculations). Therefore, Anglo Leasing and Goldenberg are not problematic! These scandals are not puzzling and meandering any more than they are thorny and ticklish - we know who needs to hang!
If yours was a call for justice for the wickedness of the condemned diablos and deamons in the Kibaki administration, I'd sincerely consider it. It's not....so let's keep it simple - KIBAKI MUST GO!
Maina.
-unedited-
|
|
|
Post by job on Feb 4, 2006 1:44:17 GMT 3
Oloo,
I noted that for some reason, you chose to discard the original thread Title, " The time to DEFEND the Kibaki regime is now",...........in favour of "Another look at the Anglo Brouhaha" ,....which incidentally retains some contemptuous tinge,.....................Has this magnanimous Anglo-Fleecing business degenerated into just some Brouhaha or noise by naive Kenyans or what?
We need a break from all these diversions being crummed into our heads right now,.........We must deal with issues step by step,.........the issue right now is Anglo-Leasing,......These diversionary politics of Goldenberg,....Imperialism,....etc can come later,.......We acknowledge their importance, but this may not be a strategically good time to handle all.
Anyway, back to the last portion of your essay,........(that was a long read),.........
To Quote you again,.....
Anglo-Leasing happened BECAUSE Kibaki and his thugs REFUSED to ratify a new democratic constitutition that would have put in place legal mechanism against state engineered graft........
Anglo-Leasing also happened because the Kenyan people allowed themselves to be demobilized after the frenzy of the Unbwogable Campaign against Moi and KANU.What we need in Kenya is permanent, wananchi based DEMOCRATIC VIGILANCE- which will not ALLOW a John Githongo to sit on vital information for two years.
Anglo-Leasing also happened because of the neo-liberal policies we have been following as a country. The diktats of the IMF and the World Bank to privatize and gut the public sector has encouraged a new breed of savvy, politically connected bandits who know where the new opportunities for plunder lie.
Now, these are your reasons as to why Kenyans were robbed by the Kibaki cabal of looters,.........in summary Kenyans were Anlgo-Fleeced by the Kibakis due to factors made possible partly by Kenyans themselves and the Imperialists,........
But is that the point here & at this time?
You continue, I'll quote,
unless we de-anchor ourselves from the Bretton Woods toxic panaceas, we will continue to not only wallow in poverty, wracked by annual famine scares, bedevilled by ministerial faux pas after ministerial faux pas and revisited by Anglo Leasing scandal after Anglo Leasing scandal as the new elites in power try to outdo their predecessors, just like the Kibaki gang tried to top Daniel arap Moi’s Goldenberg.
Oloo, every journey begins with a step,..........where do we begin this journey of de-anchoring ourselves from the Imperialists? Don't you think you are jumping way way ahead of a gradual process?........... We are just in class one and you are already asking us to write our Masters Thesis. Let's prioritize our goals and objectives, lest we miss the whole point.
You continue, As for now, it is up to the wananchi to retake the initiative and place the campaign against corruption within the wider context of the fight for a new Kenya.
Oloo, Are you not cautioning Kenyans who initiated this anti-corruption chants,.....not to do just that,........you are telling them to pause for a moment and instead DEFEND Kibaki's regime,.........lest Imperialist forces succeed in their regime-change plot,.....which we should all dread !
This is not only confusing but contradictory.
Lastly, could this quote below, from you,....... be the basis under which you are imploring Kenyans to watch out for the West and DEFEND Kibaki,............
"By the way, I had wanted to list the names of at least ten Kenyans some forces in the West are grooming for future leadership in this country and talk about their alleged ”handler” plus the KShs. 500,000,000 that they have sunk into the project.
At least three of those names have been frequently mentioned in the media over the last two weeks.
But judging from the way my fellow Kenyans treat alternative information, I am just saying what the heck, why bother for now."
My buddy, why don't we concentrate our efforts in bringing about the first step of change,......which is removing a corrupt regime from power,.......then concentrate fully on those fears, institutions and Katiba issues you discussed.
Is it also possible that you maybe attempting to fast-track a WHOLE nation into Ideological leaps,...........that still lie too far ahead?
Educating the masses on the need to do that is OK,.....but as for now,......our battle is focused on Kibaki and his Anglo-Fleecing team,.......to be honest,........I would not even try to rush into the Goldenberg report right now,....since this is just another government diversionary tactic......
unedited.
job
|
|
|
Post by miguna on Feb 4, 2006 6:01:52 GMT 3
I wonder why you had to call my essay "hogwash" before you had finished reading it. Have some tolerance for opinions other than your own. You can hardly force me to "debate" you know. Onyango Oloo Nairobi, KenyaOloo, First of all, no one is forcing you to debate me; you already did that on the other thread, before running off to start a new one. Secondly, you chose to post your uncompleted piece. You left it hanging for people like me to respond to; which I happily did, with absolutely no regrets. Third, I believe that you are grasping on straws.There is nothing new, profound or convincing you have expounded on here. Tolerance has nothing to do with it and you know it. And fourth, rather than engage in a debate where you started it, you find it convenient to jump here and there - all over the place. Discipline is necessary. That, my friend, is my opinion. [unedited] -Miguna-
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 4, 2006 12:05:55 GMT 3
i did not "abandon" or "run away" from anything.
i had indicated earlier that i was working on a longer piece and one person even scornfully indicated that they were in fact "waiting" for that piece. as soon as said piece appears, it is twisted out of context.
i am stating my opinion- by no means do i see myself engaged in a proselytizing mission to win new converts. i am aware that my view is a minority one- but it should be respected by people who hold contrary ones if we are serious about adhering to democratic principles.
as you all know, it is not today or last week that some of us stated denouncing the kibaki regime for its corruption, so please review your comments implying that i am trying to dissuade anyone from blasting the kenyan government.
must we always agree with each other?
i hope not.
Onyango Oloo Nairobi
|
|
|
Post by abdulmote on Feb 4, 2006 16:53:26 GMT 3
Onyango my friend, don't just get agitated by what we exchange in here. As far as I am concerned, only honesty to the people should be the motivating factor in what we state here. Nothing personal.
But I think I should also point out to you that you committed your biggest blunder by 'calling' on your readers that "The time to DEFEND Kibaki regime is NOW!" That is where you sold it all! Flushed! Down the sewers, dissappointingly with the rest of it all!
Perhaps acknowledging your error of judgement on the specific issue concerned will suffice! We are all human you know.
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 5, 2006 16:49:21 GMT 3
Abdul Mote: I did say that the time to defend the kibaki regime was now. this seems to have agitated not oloo, but you and many people who are disappointed and consider this my biggest blunder. well, you have a right to be "disappointed"- even though i never signed a contract with anybody on this forum to please them you see. i am not worried or agitated because some people insist on taking my words out of context to make whatever points they want to make. i stand by sentiments- notwithstanding the sea change in attitudes that i may encounter from some of my present online pals. i actually think i am right- and the crowd of people castigating me do not necessarily rebut of rebuff anything i say merely by spitting at me. i live by this credo of lillian helman: Onyango Oloo Nairobi, Kenya
|
|
|
Post by kamalet on Feb 6, 2006 9:38:08 GMT 3
Oloo,
I still think people with a fixation of wanting Kibaki out consistently miss the point you were making! Thankfully you do acknowledge our point of agreement on this one detail!!
In 2002, Kenyans went to the polls wanting to get rid of a regime that had run down their country for 24 years and replaced it with one where they had high hopes for change etc. The choice they made was a popular one and I would like to believe that it was of their own volition. I applauded what we did in December 2002, and I am convinced that the experiences of the last 3 years have perhaps transformed our country in a manner we cannot imagine. Perhaps one of the best things we have achieved is the space we now have. The fact that we can now call our leaders to account is in my mind the greatest seed to have been planted. Our future leaders will have to be more transparent than they ever thought they could.
But the fact that Kibaki has disappointed many (and that does include me - though I perhaps accommodate him more than others!!) does not mean that Kenyans should get rid of him at the behest of others. To get rid of him, must and should be by Kenyans and not other persons or organisations. The fact that the Brits or the Americans also want him out should not be something to cheer about since their motivation may not be exactly the same as that of Kenyans. Kenyans want accountable leaders - but is that what these 'foreigners' want?
Oloo has asked what these "comrades in the struggle" from America or Europe did when Moi's children claimed export compensation for exporting pangas to the UK, or even the money that was being transitted through their own capitals. Their countries were part of the supply chain that took the money back, but now when they pontificate about graft in this country, we welcome them as part of the change struggle. How sure are we that whomsoever they want to prop up will not be a child of corruption etc? We should always be careful about these darlings of the west.
As I said above, only Kenyans should be involved in any move to a regime change - it is them being shafted.
Perhaps I am being presumptious Oloo, but do forgive me on this. From your new location in Kenya I think you interact with a lot more people who give you information that you can verify for credibility hence people, especially those that live beyond our borders, should give you a more reasoned hearing than they are doing. As you can see, you either have been on some drug or have 'joined the enemy'
Kamale
|
|
|
Post by aeichener on Feb 6, 2006 10:37:24 GMT 3
You are quite misled, Kamalet.
A.
|
|
|
Post by abdulmote on Feb 6, 2006 10:43:44 GMT 3
Kamale,
Tha fact that some "Imperialist forces" may "also" desire to remove Kibaki should not in itself be sufficient a ground "to DEFEND Kibaki", especially at this stage and after all that! I can see that sometimes you guys have really misplaced your audacity by "underestimating our intelligence"!
But just note this; I have already accepted to swallow another one of my latest "dissappointment". Kweli human beings are such weak creatures. It is easy for one to try and hide behind "the freedom of speech", "the right to personal opinion" or whatever the "conscience" one can imagine, but by the end of the day, Kenyans are intelligent enough to see through your "brouhahas"!
Now chill out! Enough of this and lets carry on.
|
|
|
Post by ndauosa on Feb 6, 2006 11:38:59 GMT 3
Whichever way we chose to divert the topic and run from the previous topic, The solution and drive at this moment is Kibaki must go. It's an emergency and as long as Kenyans have decided it does not matter who helps them, as long as it's not attached to a string which cannot be beneficial to the mwananchi. who says strings, will always exist. The djembe, strings and heat alafu the beat continues.
|
|
|
Post by aeichener on Feb 6, 2006 12:42:36 GMT 3
It would, of course, be worth to paddle against the current, and to examine where and in which respects Oloo has been *right* in his admonitions.
For it's pretty obvious where he is wrong, so no use in further joining the Attic chorus; let me rather examine where he is right, and what sensible lessons and warnings can be extracted from his article. I should probably do that in the first thread, not in this one.
But one hint: the source indications which OO properly gave above, are there for a reason. I invite everybody to follow the hyperlink(s), and to read Yash Tandon's original article diligently and carefully. It is a very good article; good and useful even where Tandon errs.
Alexander
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 6, 2006 17:28:54 GMT 3
Mambogani _ Politics _ Another Look at the Anglo Brouhaha... Posted by: Onyango Oloo Feb 3 2006, 02:54 PM jukwaa.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1138994897Posted by: kip Yesterday, 07:27 AM OO Something is wrong here? you can be forgiven for taking Chavez-like attitude towards the west after attending the socialist thing in West Africa. It amazes me-I cant follow this thread well you know !, nono.gif Is this not the same OO who lived in the west for quite # of years advocating regime changes and even predicting the death of kibaki or his regime, I wonder did the new conservative party in canada murungar'd OO visa ? thus the heat on the west , or did you get tips from shikuku on ugali eating? If you are right; Should we defend the stinking Kibaki regime and be blind to the horrors of his misrule? I wonder even if Githongo is part of M16 or M17 of future kenya's puppet regime, Who poses greater harm to Kenya, is it the west or Mr. Kifaki, Uhuru and co.? coffee-n-news_3.gif doh.gif Posted by: Onyango Oloo Yesterday, 09:04 AM QUOTE(kip @ Feb 5 2006, 07:27 AM) * OO Something is wrong here? you can be forgiven for taking Chavez-like attitude towards the west after attending the socialist thing in West Africa. It amazes me-I cant follow this thread well you know !, nono.gif Is this not the same OO who lived in the west for quite # of years advocating regime changes and even predicting the death of kibaki or his regime, I wonder did the new conservative party in canada murungar'd OO visa ? thus the heat on the west , or did you get tips from shikuku on ugali eating? If you are right; Should we defend the stinking Kibaki regime and be blind to the horrors of his misrule? I wonder even if Githongo is part of M16 or M17 of future kenya's puppet regime, Who poses greater harm to Kenya, is it the west or Mr. Kifaki, Uhuru and co.? coffee-n-news_3.gif doh.gif kip for your information i became a socialist twenty five years BEFORE i boarded a bamako bound plane to attend the 2006 Polycentric. I have never advocated "regime change"; i espouse revolutionary change, perhaps the distinction escapes you. secondly living in the west does not necessarily make you pro-west and if you had been an honest critic you would have acknowledged that it would be a stretch to call oloo "pro-west". If you bothered to READ my essay you would answer your own question because nowhere do i advocate "defending" the kibaki regime in the way you impute. i am opposed to external regime changes powered by nefarious imperialist motives; i remain dedicated to confronting internal issues with all the vigour they deserve. someone who asks who is the greater to kenya is someone who needs to revist their undersanding of contemporary imperialism. oo nbi Posted by: orash Today, 01:31 AM QUOTE(Onyango Oloo @ Feb 5 2006, 02:04 PM) * QUOTE(kip @ Feb 5 2006, 07:27 AM) * OO Something is wrong here? you can be forgiven for taking Chavez-like attitude towards the west after attending the socialist thing in West Africa. It amazes me-I cant follow this thread well you know !, nono.gif Is this not the same OO who lived in the west for quite # of years advocating regime changes and even predicting the death of kibaki or his regime, I wonder did the new conservative party in canada murungar'd OO visa ? thus the heat on the west , or did you get tips from shikuku on ugali eating? If you are right; Should we defend the stinking Kibaki regime and be blind to the horrors of his misrule? I wonder even if Githongo is part of M16 or M17 of future kenya's puppet regime, Who poses greater harm to Kenya, is it the west or Mr. Kifaki, Uhuru and co.? coffee-n-news_3.gif doh.gif kip for your information i became a socialist twenty five years BEFORE i boarded a bamako bound plane to attend the 2006 Polycentric. I have never advocated "regime change"; i espouse revolutionary change, perhaps the distinction escapes you. secondly living in the west does not necessarily make you pro-west and if you had been an honest critic you would have acknowledged that it would be a stretch to call oloo "pro-west". If you bothered to READ my essay you would answer your own question because nowhere do i advocate "defending" the kibaki regime in the way you impute. i am opposed to external regime changes powered by nefarious imperialist motives; i remain dedicated to confronting internal issues with all the vigour they deserve. someone who asks who is the greater to kenya is someone who needs to revist their undersanding of contemporary imperialism. oo nbi Oloo I am do not think all these throwing/ vomitting accuses/ words at you ever went through your article. I do not also think they have ever seen your previous articles. Orash nbi Posted by: kip Today, 03:13 AM I posted my comments after reading the first sections of your essay before you added section, 4... , I might be wrong for indicating you advocate regime change, but I don’t doubt your strong socialist foundation or care why you had to me in Mntl, however my response here was rhetorical. I neither agree nor disagree - I think there is less meat in your digital. Orash- I try to read through most of OO articles- at least those that get posted at mambogani or at his blogs, the latest article shifts suddenly from most of the other articles-, as you know he is legend in his own right. We will perhaps understand better as we feed on the gossip and trash Anglo-gold scandals.
|
|
|
Post by adongo12345 on Feb 6, 2006 20:26:53 GMT 3
Kamale and othersI was trying to avoid saying the same things I already said in another thread on the same topic, until I read the following comments from you. "In 2002, Kenyans went to the polls wanting to get rid of a regime that had run down their country for 24 years and replaced it with one where they had high hopes for change etc. The choice they made was a popular one and I would like to believe that it was of their own volition. I applauded what we did in December 2002, and I am convinced that the experiences of the last 3 years have perhaps transformed our country in a manner we cannot imagine. Perhaps one of the best things we have achieved is the space we now have. The fact that we can now call our leaders to account is in my mind the greatest seed to have been planted. Our future leaders will have to be more transparent than they ever thought they could.
But the fact that Kibaki has disappointed many (and that does include me - though I perhaps accommodate him more than others!!) does not mean that Kenyans should get rid of him at the behest of others. To get rid of him, must and should be by Kenyans and not other persons or organisations. The fact that the Brits or the Americans also want him out should not be something to cheer about since their motivation may not be exactly the same as that of Kenyans. Kenyans want accountable leaders - but is that what these 'foreigners' want?The thing that gets me puzzled is the notion the Brits and the Americans want to remove the "popularly elected" Kibaki from government and that somehow, we Kenyans out of patriotism should be defending the Kibaki regime. From what I can see, the Americans are pretty o.k with Kibaki. In fact even when they refused to accommodate Mwiraria they obviously had no problem with another Kibaki appointee in the name of Obwocha. The IMF and World Bank have been pouring money on Kibaki like they have never done in the last 15 years. Even now, they are almost on their knees begging Kibaki to clean up the stink around him so they can continue choking us with the loans, billions of which are to ati fight corruption. There is no doubt in my mind that the Americans would love to deal with Kibaki, if only he could get his act together. Where is the evidence that the Americans are trying to overthrow Kibaki? Why would the Americans want to replace Kibaki, a neocolonial technocrat and politician with very good connections with the power barons in Kenya? Who are they going to replace him with? Githongo? Makau Mutua? The Americans are not dump. They know these sleek operators although good on paper have no chance of rolling in the "mud of politics" to be at the top of the heap? These are long shots 10 to 15 years from now. Like in professional sports, these guys are being recruited to be taken to the junior league to be prepared for a future role. Do they want Uhuru? Moi wanted the same. And what do the Brits want? My sense is that both the Brits and the American power makers would be very happy with a Kibaki regime that is seen to be clean and has the support of Kenyans. The key word here is the "support" of Kenyans. The only reason any of these key partners in the Kenyan neocolonial project would be worried about Kibaki is if he was seen as losing the support of Kenyans. What I am saying is that, it is precisely because Kenyans, the same ones who elected Kibaki in 2002, are turning against him as reflected in the colossal referendum flop, opinion polls and the nitty gritty reality on the ground, that the Brits and the Americans are seen to be rubbing Kibaki the wrong way. It is not the other way round as some people are suggesting. Then there is the issue of Kibaki being popularly elected and therefore deserving to be in power until Kenyans say otherwise preferably at the next General Elections(if folks like Kamale would have their wish). I don't think it is a secret that the Narc we elected with Kibaki as its leader ceased to exist almost soon after the elections. Who elected Nyachae and Karume to be the key leaders in the new government? Kenyans precisely voted against those same elements. It is fraudulent for Kibaki and his supporters like Kamale to tell us we elected the regime and should stick with it till 2007 and to protect it against imaginary enemies. Nobody elected the regime in power today and it a mark of the great patience of Kenyans that we have not taken to the streets to remove the fraudsters in power. Personally I think we are engaged in the wrong debate, but such are the benefits of freedom of thought and expression. Kenyans will soon remove Kibaki from his misery and it wouldn't be because the Americans and Brits asked them to do so. They didn't ask us to remove Moi. We are going to send Kibaki to Othaya because he is one of the worst political failures in the history of independent Kenya. With the opportunities history gave this man, it is astonishing really how he managed to reduce himself to such a pathetic mascot for all that is wrong with our country. The real issue here and I suspect that is part of what OO is trying to raise is that just replacing the Kibaki regime with say an LDP, Kanu or ODM regime is NOT going to do much good to the Kenyan people and that progressive and revolutionary forces are nowhere on the ground to engage Kenyans at another level that could lead to revolutionary changes in our land. I agree with that, but it is hardly the Americans or Brits fault. May be it is to some extent. The reality is that these forces are terribly weak on the ground leaving the battlefield to the regular opportunists. This brings me back to the Bolivia experience and lessons to learn from there. In 2005 when the Americans realized their guy in power was going nowhere they set up to replace him in another election barely four years after the previous election in 2001. Guess what, MAS (the Movement Towards Socialism) under the leadership of Evo Morales were ready for them and this time the Americans with all their money and connections didn't have a chance and the rest is history. If we had the right forces on the ground, and we will, these things take time, instability in the Kibaki regime would be none of our business. In the meantime we have to do with what we have and for now it is the ODM as confused and confusing as they are. And one last thing. The democratic space Kenyans are enjoying today did not come to us in the last three years of Kibaki misrule, certainly not as some kind of gift from the Kibaki regime. Kenyans have fought and died for it for decades. It is precisely because of that democratic space that we were able to remove Moi from power. If Kibaki had his way Kenya will be right back in the dark era. I don't have to remind you of the mass killings of protestors in Kisumu and Mombasa. www.timesnews.co.ke/07feb06/nwsstory/opinion2.htmlI agree with Jerry Okungu that if Kibaki does what the Brits and Americans and of course millions of Kenyans are still pleading with him to do, he might just become the most popular man in the country. So much for the conspiracy theories. Adongo
|
|
|
Post by miguna on Feb 6, 2006 22:17:21 GMT 3
Adongo,
I thank you for this posting.
This was precisely my argument on the first thread where Oloo loudly called for the "Defence of the Kibaki regime Now". That was his primary message.
You have reiterated something I tried stating to Oloo repeatedly, obviously unsuccessfully. I believe that Job (and others) had done a commendable job by explaining it, too. The problem with the caution was exactly as you have stated it.
Had Oloo simply written a caution without getting himself tangled up with the "Kibaki Defence" regiment, I, for one, would have supported it unreservedly. But to have confused or mixed up the necessary caution with the "Defence of the Kibaki Regime is Now" message, in my view, was an inexcusable mistake, especially when he refused to listen to our own "cautions" against our perception of his "error".
He is/was obviously free to refuse, which he did, openly. That's OK.
But to have insinuated that those criticizing him or pointing out the confusion, were twisting facts, out to score cheap political or personal "grades", proseletizing, exhibiting intolerance or disrespect of him, was, to say the least, disappointing.
I have always said, and will say it one more time, that those who consider themselves progressive should try to conduct themselves in a "diciplined manner." We have to carefully weigh our utterences, especially when those seem to be inconsistent with our primary goal(s). That does not mean that we have to sign a "contract" with each other and "agree" on everything, as Oloo pointed out. However, if we can't even distinguish what our key objectives are and muddle ourselves in the process of explaining our message, then we have to question not just our commitments but our understanding of the most effective strategies as well.
We can not lose our focus because of the activities of one or more Nairobi based Western diplomats. Whether some of the names being peddled are actually being supported by these Westerners is something that is not important for our purposes. To suggest that the illegtimate, looting and oppressive Kibaki regime should or must be defended because of some "fear" (which I personally believe is misplaced) that some of these people "are being imposed on Kenyans," is to me an insult of the intelligence of Kenyans (as Abdulmote and Job previously argued.)
Ordinary Kenyans are not stupid. They will never simply allow any Johny Come Lately to power - not at this point, at least. However, if any Johny Come Lately manages to demonstrate his or her credentials to the people and the people support him or her, well, unfortunately, that is the price we have to pay for freedom. That is why I strongly believe that the West must accept the election of Hamas in Palestine. One cannot have it both ways.
The cynical suggestion by Kamau that one's views becomes "clearer" merely because of one's geographic position or location cannot be taken seriously, otherwise, we would not have foreign representatives (i.e diplomats) purporting to act in our country's best interests. This observation ligically undermines the thrust of the argument that Western diplomats are trying to impose leaders on us at the behest of imperialists. If our views are discounted on the basis of where we reside, then why can't the expressed views of the Western diplomats be discounted by their governments or people on that very basis?
You see, the beautiful thing with logic is that it clears the fog out from some of these confusions quite neatly.
Let us keep our eyes on the prize. As Maina says, "Kibaki must go!"
[unedited] -Miguna-
PS: I also take issue with his starting three threads on the same topic, with different headings, thereby forcing contributors to be jumping from one thread to the other. This has unnecessarily disjointed contributions and shown lack of focus. It's not helpful, in my view. MM
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 12, 2006 10:40:46 GMT 3
Eons later, the Standard catches up with The People Daily:
Saturday February 11, 2006
Mwiraria quit to evade US visa ban --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Sunday Standard Reporter
Former Finance Minister resigned because the US had threatened to deny him a visa to Washington, DC, for a meeting with the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, The Sunday Standard reports.
The 2006 Spring Meetings of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank Group are due on April 22-23 in Washington.
The Sunday Standard established that about a week before Mwiraria quit, the US informed President Kibaki that, unless Mwiraria was sacked or resigned, he would not get a visa to the World Bank meeting.
The letter to Kibaki said to have been delivered to State House on January 30, was also copied to Mwiraria.
The following day, the World Bank also weighed in with a stand that it would withhold funding and would not deal with Mwiraria.
That evening, as the President met Mwiraria and other key ministers in State House where they discussed whether the former minister should quit to avoid the embarrassment.
The meeting reached no agreement and the group convened again on Wednesday where they discussed the possibility of a mini-Cabinet reshuffle, which was also dismissed as a poor strategy.
The President’s men invited a political scientist who had developed a plan on how to deal with the John Githongo’s Anglo Leasing dossier.
At that meeting the President’s team agreed to borrow from former President Moi on how he dealt with Mr Nicholas Biwott, following allegations that the former regime’s pillar might have known something about the killing of Dr Robert Ouko in 1990.
The consultant told the President team’s to sacrifice Mwiraria the way Moi did with Biwott, arguing that he could be reinstated after the pressure eased.
The leaders at the State House meeting agreed to ask the DP to call a Press conference and demand Mwiraria’s exist.
Diplomatic sources say Mwiraria was scheduled to attend consultative meetings with donors in France and Washington.
Sources say that the Finance minister may have taken pre-emptive action before the US plan became public.
The political scientist counselled that Mwiraria steps aside briefly, to deflect public attention. Mwiraria would then get back his post after being ‘cleared’.
Last month, Mwiraria instructed his staff to direct travel matters to Mr Henry Obwocha, Planning and National Development minister. Mwiraria asked Obwocha to represent him at the Africa Capacity Building Forum in Paris. But the trips that the Finance minister was scheduled to make to Washington were proving tricky.
He was expected to meet World Bank officials on financing deals with Kenya.
Officials from the International Monetary Fund are also expected in Kenya this month to assess progress in governance.
Yesterday, US Embassy officials declined to comment on the matter. But sources based in Washington say that the US was polite and informed the President and Mwiraria before making the information public.
Last year, the British Government banned Dr Chris Murungaru from visiting the country, and circulated the alert airlines.
It is not clear whether Mwiraria or the President had officially received information from the US about the travel ban. But sources say that they were aware.
The Minister of Finance plays an important role in negotiations for financing deals for the Government. No other official is allowed to sign financing deals. With the office still vacant, the Government might not enter into any loan agreement.
Murungaru became the first Kenyan minister to get a travel ban from the US and Britain. He has sued the British Government.
The US Government has in recent years taken tough measures against public officials linked to corruption in developing countries.
President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe and a number of top ministers and officials in his government have been banned from travelling to the US.
The Government is said to be borrowing heavily from a document that advised against the sacking of ministers involved in Anglo Leasing.
"Githongo has arrogated himself a high moral ground. He is telling the world that ‘you are bad and he is good’. You need to deflate him. You need to cast him as an over enthusiastic officer with good intentions but completely naive. But more fundamentally, you must criminalise what he is doing," the document says.
The dossier warns that in the court of public opinion, the Government is ‘guilty as charged’.
"The President is implicated directly or otherwise as per the Githongo dossier. This is why we must interpret public anger as an assault on the President … we must not attempt to resolve this scam, not before the 2007 elections."
The document also advised the Government to release the Goldenberg report in a "mirror image tactic" that will "infuriate and confuse" and recommends that the Government must not fire or suspend implicated politicians.
"They form a ring around the President. To remove them is to expose Kibaki. They must therefore remain in place and take the blame while inside. If you remove them, the public will inevitably go for the President demanding his resignation as well," the consultant advised.
After the historic visa ban on Murungaru in July last year diplomatic sources revealed that five other ministers were also on the list.
Though it was not clear who was in the list, speculation was rife that the ministers adversely mentioned in the Anglo Leasing deals were the target.
|
|