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Post by roughrider on Feb 9, 2006 15:01:56 GMT 3
A public complaint from a fed-up skeptic
I have nowhere to hide. Everywhere I turn people are talking about Valentines this or Valentines that. The ladies especially – with all respect – have gone gaga. My mail box is full of ‘Valentines offers’. Feature writers are falling over themselves trying to write on the origins of Valentines and the meaning of love.
Even His Eminence Pope Benedict the Sixteenth, Vicar of Christ, (formerly known as Joseph Ratzinger, enforcer of the faith) has dedicated his first Papal Encyclical to modern love – Agape and Eros! To be fair, thank God and the Holy Father, he is attacking modern obsession with the 'commodity' of sex.
Yesterday I was enjoying one of my favorite TV programs, ArtScene on KTN when they suddenly brought on Nini Wacera to give ‘expert opinion’ about Valentines, Love etc…
I was furious. Apart from the fact that this woman has a certain seedy reputation that is totally incompatible with the whole question of love, I couldn’t see what love had to do with art. Maybe it does but I just can’t see it.
Another lady on the same TV program – again with all possible respect – was molding chocolate into flowers and writing love messages with vanilla paste as millions are starving. Isn’t there some cruel irony somewhere?
This is the season of madness. Why do otherwise reasonable adults have to wait until now to disturb the peace with embarrassing public declarations of love? Am I a prude?
Can’t a young Kenyan have peace any more?
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Post by maina on Feb 9, 2006 22:48:40 GMT 3
Roughrider, ………..no need to kick yourself or weep over it. I am in a compendiary trip in the western US and I am distressed to report that I have been witnessing the most kooky, spooky and outlandish drollness. Take for instance the monomaniacal male-dominated trend of prudently plucking flowers from trees in the public parks or along the streets and roadways because of the imminent scarcity of flowers attributable to the unavoidable convergence of Valentine’s Day. It is as though the flowers are their life support! I’d hate to imagine that flowers be the only tantalizing and ambrosial way to a woman’s heart these days……… You see the place looks like it’s fall (read autumn) again; absolutely lacking in efflorescence. This creativity is implausible, pointless and brainless, if you ask me! What’s even worse is the discernible and eye-catching “holy-wars” from these post modernist deviating feminists who think that the male-flower-giving-culture to the female during the Valentine spell is sub-rosa, negligent and unwarrantably backward and actually hinders “their” feministic progression. Can you imagine that? These same types are “cordially” referred to as “newfangled feminists” in the eastern US, and they are emblematically “anti-skivvy” (read bra)!  Skivvies are supposedly their enemy-number-one because they (the skivvies) make them (these types) somehow feel “enclosed” so they abhor and purely contemn them.  Their concepts are actually fazing and mystifying, if not ridiculous. So you see the drama here is pretty much similar to yours only in a different contextual relevance. I however never imagined that the Valentine enthusiasm has become so artless in Kenya. I think it’s due to the internationalism craze. Anyway, good consolation though!  “Humbly” befuddled, Maina. -unedited- |
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Post by roughrider on Feb 10, 2006 17:23:45 GMT 3
Feministic progression? That’s a hard nut to crack.
I was a tickled the other day when a patron of Jukwaa (moderator please tell us, is it Jukwaaist, Jukwaaite or Jukwaan??) Kathure Kebaara questioned people who just addressed everybody as ‘gentlemen’, when posting stuff on Jukwaa.
“kindly include us in your use of language” she pleaded.
Of course she was right and they were wrong. Nobody comes to Jukwaa announcing their sex and we must therefore assume that some could be female. What I have doubts about are her methods and the kind of inconsequential battles she chooses to fight.
Goes to show just how complicated the world has become.
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Post by abdulmote on Feb 11, 2006 15:29:26 GMT 3
"Of course she was right and they were wrong. Nobody comes to Jukwaa announcing their sex and we must therefore assume that some could be female."
Hey RR!
You shouldn't be let to get away with this so easily. Yes, you are right, "Nobody comes to Jukwaa announcing their sex"! But no, YOU are wrong! Announcement aside, by now we have engaged with quite a few for so long, that we happen to know what "sex" the others are without any feelings of doubt! Ama do you want to say that that is not the case?
But my only sadness is that "we" hardly to get to engage deeply with the likes of akina "Kathure" that they can rarely be felt! I just keep on hoping that someday they will be coming in and participate actively in abundance!
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Post by pharlap on Feb 12, 2006 3:09:35 GMT 3
Its another ploy to make sure you spend. You see, they are aware that christmas and the entire festive season fleeced you and so with a break from january and a bit of february, you have probably recovered enough to engage in another spending spree. I will probably join the bandwagon of the so called *lovers* and buy some girl a bunch of flowers and a box of chocolates out of a good heart and probably to get rid of her because she has been singing the valentines song for a while now. But then thats life for the younger folks out there.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2006 6:22:17 GMT 3
Men have got to develop some heart and some sound analysis to realize that when sisters get passionate about themselves and their direction, it does not mean they're readying up to kick men's ass. They're readying up for honesty. And women have got to developer some heart and sound analysis so they can resist the temptation of buying peace with their man with self-sacrifice and posturing.
Bambara, Toni Cade. 1970 "On the Issue of Roles" The Black Woman: An Anthology. 101-110
Gees, its taken you guys a long time. I was expecting this anti-woman commentary ages ago!
When "roughrider" put up the first posting I thought it was good to critique some of the ways in which the erotic and love have been hijacked and commercialized.
Didn't know then that he was just readying himself for an attack on feminism and women like Kathure.
Valetines day means very little for women like Kathure. We don't need any man's flowers, chocolates or wine for one day in a year. Women would much rather have men in their lives who are their equals in the home and public sphere. Opening a door for me means nothing if you can't change your baby's diaper or think only of yourself and your dick when engaged in sex.
"maina" of "she bang" fame said
... I'd hate to imagine that flowers be the only tantalizing and ambrosial way to a woman's heart these days...
Must I spell out the ways to a woman's heart for all you men who think like this, and there are too many of you - yak!
You all just need to use a little commonsense. Do your share of domestic chores and child rearing. Be a good listener and please (for me anyways) have some sound political analysis of the world in your head. This includes not feeling threatened any time a woman speaks out about the specific oppression of women and girls, and the ways that this oppression privileges men and boys. If you don't understand this just ask your mama or grandma for that matter, maybe your sister or perhaps your lover or lovers.
"Maina" again
What's even worse is the discernible and eye-catching "holy-wars" from these post modernist deviating feminists who think that the male-flower-giving-culture to the female during the Valentine spell is sub-rosa, negligent and unwarrantably backward and actually hinders "their" feministic progression. Can you imagine that?
Oh yes I can "Maina" too bad you don't get it.
You're upset when women want flowers and critical of those women who aren't interested in pretentious niceties.
How is it that people like you comment on serious political matters that affect our country but are so oblivious to all matters woman? Ask the women that want flowers on valentines day if flowers from a man is all that they desire. Unless you lie, they will all give you very commonsense examples of what men can do to act more equitable in the world in relation to women. Perhaps these women yearn for authenticity in their love lives rather than some shoddy display of affection on valentines day.
Maina, people should be able to pick and chose how they dress. If some women don't want to wear bras how is this a problem for you. You can put one on if you want.
Then there is the "roughrider"
When people are polite and cordial macho types see this as a weakness. That is why you claim that I was "pleading" when I asked that folks use inclusive language on this blog.
And that silly comment about whether women posting and reading here are "Jukwaaist, Jukwaaite, or Jukwaan makes me think of White people. Are you "roughrider" Black, a black person or negro. Which one is politically correct?
"roughrider" again
... What I have doubts about are her methods and the kind of inconsequential battles she chooses to fight.
Could you break this down for me? What methods and inconsequential battles do you speak of?
"roughrider" again
... Goes to show just how complicated the world has become.
Come now, sure you can handle a little heat, you are the MAN!
Any time women draw attention to men's unbridled sense of entitlement men like you start wishing for the "good old days. But, times they are a changing and you had better get used to the program guy.
And thanks to "abdulmote" for the solidarity!
"pharlap" Do you normally break up with "girls" by giving them flowers? If so, you sure know how to say *f* off in style man!
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Post by aeichener on Feb 13, 2006 4:49:59 GMT 3
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Post by roughrider on Feb 13, 2006 12:20:22 GMT 3
Roughrider pleads innocent
Dear Ms. Kathure Kebaara:
I admire your valor and passion in standing up for what you believe in. Instinctively, I find that in many ways we are standing on the same side. Please allow me to quickly sketch out my view of gender relations and try to answer some of the pertinent matters you raise.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am an extremely gender sensitive person. I respect women and their rights. Women’s rights are also human rights. I am even on record as saying that I am much more gender sensitive than most women. You have clearly misjudged my comments and in a clearly unfair way cast them as an attack against women.
I believe in gender equity, but I don’t believe in gender equality. Men are not equal to women; that is a biological, physical and social impossibility. It will be intellectual dishonesty for me or anyone else to claim otherwise. In fact in many ways women are superior to men just as in other ways men are superior to women. None is in toto inferior. The gender differences; the strengths and weaknesses are complementary. We need to appreciate them and they imply roles. This view, Ms. Kebaara, is – if you like - a formal statement of African philosophy on gender.
Being an African, who does not swallow hook, line and sinker the Western-inspired concepts of feminism that are in vogue nowadays, does not render me a sexist. For instance I do not agree that only tall and skinny is necessarily beautiful – and that must make me look rather old fashioned. I urge that we question the things that come from Europe and America more closely before imposing them on our people.
Feminism has been described as ‘a metaphysical revolt against the characteristics of women. Men seem to have all the advantages, and so feminists try to become caricatures of men’
I sometimes rely on Simone de Bouvier’s book, The Second Sex, to get into the minds of feminists.
Some years ago Maria Nzomo used to penalize students at the University of Nairobi for saying ‘he’ or ‘his’ rather than ‘him and her’ or ‘his and hers’; for saying ‘men’ instead of saying ‘both men and women’…. in her mind she felt she was doing women a service. Unfortunately for her she exposed the whole quest for gender equity to ridicule with her pettiness. Smart students would first type essays and then use the ‘Find and Replace’ function in word processors to make them gender-sensitive and thus satisfy Nzomo’s vanity.
This is the battle that you chose to fight here. While it is important to inculcate in men and women a culture of balanced language, it is in my view, neither the most pressing problem nor the most effective means to fight for women rights or equal opportunity. Many of the men you are speaking to will probably make an effort to clean their language merely to avoid run-ins with you or because it is politically correct to do so. But will it ever come naturally? More effective would be if you started a thread with incisive analysis of how we can ensure equal opportunity for women. I will be a happy and honest contributor. Equal opportunity will mean women begin to take their rightful place in society and the subsequent effects on language will come naturally.
Finally, the ‘Jukwaaite, Jukwaan or Jukwaaist’ query has nothing to do with gender (or its discrimination). A person from Kenya is called a Kenyan. A subscriber to the doctrines of Karl Marx is a Marxist. So how would one refer to a patron of Jukwaa? It will simply help us with economy of words, and ma’am, I can’t help if you think that is silly.
Without prejudice, yours truly,
Roughrider
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Post by roughrider on Feb 13, 2006 12:30:35 GMT 3
Announcement aside, by now we have engaged with quite a few for so long, that we happen to know what "sex" the others are without any feelings of doubt! Ama do you want to say that that is not the case? But my only sadness is that "we" hardly to get to engage deeply with the likes of akina "Kathure" that they can rarely be felt! I just keep on hoping that someday they will be coming in and participate actively in abundance! I have to accept you have a point. But one needs to be careful - there are various varieties of 'shemales' lurking in these sites. If one wanted to play with words a little, one could choose to interpret your 'engagement to know the sex' of some Jukwaa members without possibility doubt and your sadness that you 'hardly engage deeply' with the likes of kina Kathure as a cheeky sexual statement.... But RR is not doing that. Cheers, Abdulmote. |
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Post by roughrider on Feb 13, 2006 12:38:19 GMT 3
I will probably join the bandwagon of the so called *lovers* and buy some girl a bunch of flowers and a box of chocolates out of a good heart and probably to get rid of her because she has been singing the valentines song for a while now. 'Some girl'? Pharlap I see where you are coming from but be careful there now... that language will land you a mighty mess. I can't reconcile 'buying someone something out of a good heart' and 'getting rid of her'. Good hearts don't get rid of people with flowers and chocolates. |
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Post by pharlap on Feb 17, 2006 22:33:34 GMT 3
@rr, that is why i have been quiet all these time. i knew those comments had the potential to offend and i will definately be more sensitive next time.
@kathurekebaara41: I usually don't do that. This was just a once off where a lucky lady happens to be nagging a guy with a soft heart for some valentine goodies. But i think it is a good idea, could work great.
I was once in a discusssion with some of my fellow kenyans away from home. I left the country for college after high school and did not get to socialize with the kenyan youth; except for the occasional few weeks a i spent in nairobi with my family.
Being predominantly college boys, the discussion revolved around girls and one point that was raised was that a kenyan guy can get any girl they want in any part of the world. The reason being that Kenyan girls are so hard to charm, so that our skills are quite developed to a high level by the time we get to our 20's. Having not spent those crucial years back home, i was left wondering why many Kenyan men have not become gay.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2006 8:23:22 GMT 3
Hey "pharlap"
So Kenyan men have developed excellent charming skills by the start of their 20s ati because Kenyan "girls" are so hard to charm?
I have never found that Kenyan men have better "charming" skills than any other men. They are mostly just as sexist as the next dude. In any case, what is your definition of charming?
Heterosexual Kenyan men will not become gay ati because Kenyan "girls" won't be charmed by them.
Just as gay men will not become heterosexual just because a heterosexist world has tried just about anything to "cure" them. Coercion, violence including murder, legal sanctions, social sanctions have all not errased the fact that there is a whole other world out there outside of the heterosexual box.
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Post by maina on Feb 27, 2006 1:28:12 GMT 3
Kathure,
It’s been quite a long time. Habari gani?
Your comments here are colourful and evidently side-splitting!
It also appears as though you misunderstood me. Actually, I was thinking that I might have misunderstood you upon reading your strictures, but I highly doubt it because my lovely wife seems to acquiesce in my judgment that you indeed accurately misunderstood me. So as a means to conclusively resolve and kick out any more bemusement, disquietude or fracas, I will genially and responsively straighten out and tidy a few things. You see by doing just that, I painfully trust that we will both excellently and advantageously be of the same mind. Categorically, that also means that I solidly buttress and champion gender equity and also fully praise Resolution 1325.
So................;
1. Shebang = “almost any matter of present concern; thing; business;................", so when I used the word “shebang” with reference to Oloo’s commentary/Oloo’s shebang, I meant it in this context.
I winnowed that definition from the Oxford English Dictionary. As you can see, it does not in any way connote or depict "language that serves to exclude" as you beautifully lambasted its locution here (and particularly in the "An Imperialist-led NGO Coup in Kenya" thread.
2. Since I am the ultimate autodidact, you can rest assured that I am a man of common sense! Also, I can egomaniacally and bombastically asseverate that I am not in any way "threatened" (your remarks in this very thread) by a woman or women. Believe me, I love me sum women! In fact, I’m so spoony at heart that I reckon that women are equitable, supreme and perfect.
3. I tolerantly will not roast any woman who facilely does not wear a bra or alternatively bum rap any man who wears one or chooses to. As much as I powerfully cannot dream up an authentic man in a bra, or even fathom his cry or preoccupation to wanna wear a bra, I am correspondingly sedately befogged and psyched out by a woman who does not wear one because she feels "enclosed", and then somehow finds it only too natural to demur through resistance movements! That to me is plainly heteroclite, if not downright hocus-pocus and abracadabra. Actually, that brain wave is strikingly fathomable under classical utopia. Because these types (these anti-skivvies) are veritably against the bra, then we can comfortably estimate that they are simply and plainly mentally disarranged. So in consequence, they should not be polluting my gorgeous and splendiferous space because they’re entitled to 1st Amendment Rights!
Ugh!
Now, do you see what I am talking about? Do you see how insane their whole creedal statement and doctrine is? Do you then resultantly see why I am allergic to them and making all this noise?
In any case, you and I (again, my cogitation as per your remarks herein) seem to surely appreciate the power and business of the bra. The bra has consummately nothing to do with making a genuine woman, women or feminist(s) for that matter feel betwixt, hedged or even sealed up and shut in! Furthermore, a real woman or feminist is cognizant and acquainted with the health implications of not wearing the bra – the bra is just simply downright worthy!
Kathure, and with all due respect, I surely do not intend to get caught up discussing the benediction and judiciousness of the bra. Nah, that’s a little too elementary for me. That’s why I’d rather yearn about the hot air and mockery that these escapists (the newfangled feminists) are preaching with regards to the beloved and cherished skivvies. I hope you can now see how righteously screwy the fruitcakes are!
Maina.
-unedited-
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Post by maina on Feb 27, 2006 1:35:35 GMT 3
Pharlap,
If I were you, I’d be very careful lest you get blasted..............you’re treading in the direction of the field with dangerous mines!
Maina.
-unedited-
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Post by aeichener on Feb 27, 2006 1:51:36 GMT 3
A bad case of adverbitis.
Cold wraps, and a diet of nouns and verbs are prescribed.
Alexander
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