mrembo
Full Member
Jaber
Posts: 136
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Post by mrembo on Jan 20, 2010 14:41:48 GMT 3
Sorry to ask but who exactly is Miguna Miguna and why is his name all over Jukwaa? Who is he?
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Jan 20, 2010 15:02:25 GMT 3
Sorry to ask but who exactly is Miguna Miguna and why is his name all over Jukwaa? Who is he? MremboI know you are a newbie who has joined Jukwaa. In regards to your innocent- or not so innocent question, I suggest that you make friends with Google. Onyango Oloo Nairobi
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Jan 20, 2010 15:08:05 GMT 3
Wana Jukwaa:
Just to report. Been in touch with Miguna who has stressed that he will not bring himself to attack his comrade Buke in public.
Also called up Wafula Buke who called me back and we had a coffee together somewhere downtown around mid day today.
I had printed out this ENTIRE THREAD which I gave him and he read it there and then.
I expanded on what I had expounded in my own intervention.
Since he is not a member of Jukwaa, he has pledged to send me his contribution to this thread so that I can post it here.
Both comrades have separately told me that they have been dialoguing on Buke's piece since last evening and I have been privy to that correspondence- which I will obviously NOT reproduce here because it is private.
Onyango Oloo Nairobi
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Post by mzee on Jan 20, 2010 15:53:03 GMT 3
Wana Jukwaa:Just to report. Been in touch with Miguna who has stressed that he will not bring himself to attack his comrade Buke in public. Also called up Wafula Buke who called me back and we had a coffee together somewhere downtown around mid day today. I had printed out this ENTIRE THREAD which I gave him and he read it there and then. I expanded on what I had expounded in my own intervention. Since he is not a member of Jukwaa, he has pledged to send me his contribution to this thread so that I can post it here. Both comrades have separately told me that they have been dialoguing on Buke's piece since last evening and I have been privy to that correspondence- which I will obviously NOT reproduce here because it is private. Onyango Oloo Nairobi OO, I have never known you as a mediator but you are doing a very good job by bringing the two comrades together. Miguna and Buke have no reason attacking each other in public. I know that Buke was RAOs supporter in 2007 and I hope he still is. Miguna is also a great supporter of the PM. Even though they have been fighting for the liberation of Kenya in different ways, their main goal has always been the same ie the liberation of our beloved country from the reigns of bad governance. OO, I hope that you will be able to broker peace between the two.
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Post by mank on Jan 20, 2010 16:52:59 GMT 3
Wafula's attempt to cast Miguna as unworthy of contemporary heroism, as one who "... needs to be told that while he was away, the nation did not wait for him. New challenges emerged and with them new strategies, new alliances, new forms of sacrifice and new heroes ..." pained me like a thorn through the flesh.
I first heard of Wafula Buke when he was taken in as a "Libya spy". It took a while (about 2 years, I think), to realize that we had been duped. I do not know the man in person, and find that a good thing. Good, because in that sense he remains part personification of the force of many that have walked the path of despotic humiliation. So for him to dress down someone else who would be held on equal status, is like dressing down himself.
It would be easier if I would see Wafula's words to Miguna just as that. Instead I hear them ringing as if they are addressed even to the oldest generation of Kenya's liberators, the Mau Mau, for whom liberation struggled ended with Uhuru on Dec 12 1963. Their is not exactly the hiatus of Miguna (whether fact or fiction) which Wafula was addressing, but still it seems to me that disdain upon one, because his credentials are old (fact or fiction), would be disdain upon all with old credentials. It should never have been done by someone of Wafula's background. He should understand its hurt. It is worse to imagine that his was, to any degree, motivated by the crack that has occurred between Ruto and Raila. In that case his own heroism would be tainted - you can't be a freedom fighter who silences other's freedom for your convenience.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jan 20, 2010 16:55:10 GMT 3
Oloo,
That was a good initiative. These people are in sensitive spots and things get blown to the moon sometimes. If people talk some of those things can be avoided. I was just wondering. This is a joke. Kibisu Kabateesi is Mudavadi's strategist, Wafula Buke is Ruto's PA, David Murathe is Uhuru's main guy, Miguna is with Raila. And you know where we are. So why don't we just call a meeting of the comrades and sort things out. Certainly the skills and credibility of these guys are not in question. Let's have a convention and get his matter over with. On a more serous note I think we need to talk with these friends of ours. Of course circumstances change, but a broad dialogue is not a bad idea.
adongo
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Post by tnk on Jan 20, 2010 19:52:48 GMT 3
bw oloo
good initiative
i think also that we need to look at buke's article from a different perspective
== By Wafula Buke
...bring into sharp focus, not just the quality of his political analysis, but also the authenticity of the moral ground on which he claims to draw inspiration.
It is apparent that he generously overrates his patriotic credentials and contribution to political change.
... as far as the struggle he lionises himself ...
Let ... and the rest of the later day and recent returnees from Western capitals as refugees learn from the first lesson of released long serving prisoners from their wives or fiancés.
They are summons titled “While You Were Away.” They are stories too painful to be penned in most biographies of the freed. ....
... all your friends abandoned her and that it is only enemy so and so who paid school fees for the children.... ..the job she has was given to her by a stranger. In short new relationships emerged to address new contradictions.
... New challenges emerged and with them new strategies, new alliances, new forms of sacrifice and new heroes.
... new forms of sacrifice emerged, namely; business, jobs, friends, money, history, time etc. ==
i dont view this as an attack on Miguna the person but a philosophical qtn on the imbalances and injustices of life and how the tables turn. it also addresses the trauma of survivors and impact on families and close ones. this in my view is a much needed piece that knits or ties together the different re-integration paths into society for liberators
you can replace miguna, buke in the text with homeguards, mau mau, or the other locals with such as kaggia, ngugi etc in fact you can choose any permutation between exiles, self exiles, martyrs etc and still get the same result. in fact if we rewind the time dial to say 1963, you would not be mistaken if you thought that story was about kenyatta
this takes the pattern of the often quoted stories of those pushed aside after the independence struggle, and now we have those pushed aside after the 2nd liberation. soon we will have those pushed aside after the 3rd and so on
i think buke's piece speaks for the many who emerge from the trenches late only to find all the plum jobs taken, their families shattered and surprise surprise, their comrades wining and dining with the enemy and the country forging ahead.
i do however agree, a little more tact would have helped the argument move forward and not provide much needed scent/stench for the gadflies.
my view is that we need to hear these expressions so that society finds a way to help re-integrate all these players. the US and UK for example have veteran programs, here in kenya we simply raise a statue of one notable leader downtown and thats it.
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Post by job on Jan 20, 2010 20:28:23 GMT 3
Oloo,
Thanks for letting us know that Wafula Buke is now William Ruto's Personal Assistant.
Who would have known a day would come when Wafula Buke would turn into a court jester for a KANU YK-92 hawk.
That has explained a lot of my befuddlement - in essence this was Ruto's own rebuttal to Miguna. He who pays the piper calls the tunes.
This also gives a big clue about Buke's own moral philosophy. I can now place it more accurately.
When Buke calls Miguna an opportunist as he eats from Ruto's pockets, the issue of hypocricy also arises.
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man
Junior Member
Posts: 99
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Post by man on Jan 20, 2010 21:11:31 GMT 3
With all due respect, my fellow country men/women, Mr. Buke has told it exactly as it is. It may have sounded as whinning on his part but truth be told, Mr. Miguna is reaping where he did not sow.
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Post by mank on Jan 20, 2010 22:14:18 GMT 3
bw oloo good initiative i think also that we need to look at buke's article from a different perspective == By Wafula Buke ...bring into sharp focus, not just the quality of his political analysis, but also the authenticity of the moral ground on which he claims to draw inspiration. It is apparent that he generously overrates his patriotic credentials and contribution to political change. ... as far as the struggle he lionises himself ... Let ... and the rest of the later day and recent returnees from Western capitals as refugees learn from the first lesson of released long serving prisoners from their wives or fiancés. They are summons titled “While You Were Away.” They are stories too painful to be penned in most biographies of the freed. .... ... all your friends abandoned her and that it is only enemy so and so who paid school fees for the children.... ..the job she has was given to her by a stranger. In short new relationships emerged to address new contradictions. ... New challenges emerged and with them new strategies, new alliances, new forms of sacrifice and new heroes. ... new forms of sacrifice emerged, namely; business, jobs, friends, money, history, time etc. == i dont view this as an attack on Miguna the person but a philosophical qtn on the imbalances and injustices of life and how the tables turn. it also addresses the trauma of survivors and impact on families and close ones. this in my view is a much needed piece that knits or ties together the different re-integration paths into society for liberators you can replace miguna, buke in the text with homeguards, mau mau, or the other locals with such as kaggia, ngugi etc in fact you can choose any permutation between exiles, self exiles, martyrs etc and still get the same result. this takes the pattern of the often quoted stories of those pushed aside after the independence struggle, and now we have those pushed aside after the 2nd liberation. soon we will have those pushed aside after the 3rd and so on i think buke's piece speaks for the many who emerge from the trenches late only to find all the plum jobs taken, their families shattered and surprise surprise, their comrades wining and dining with the enemy and the country forging ahead. i do however agree, a little more tact would have helped the argument move forward and not provide much needed scent/stench for the gadflies. my view is that we need to hear these expressions so that society finds a way to help re-integrate all these players. the US and UK for example have veteran programs, here in kenya we simply raise a statue of one notable leader downtown and thats it. TNK, seems you and I are getting the same sense or at least closely related sense of this. But there is a distinction to be made about the groups of fighters we perceive here ... mine is not to preach on the accomplishments of Miguna Miguna, with which I am not very conversant. However, going by what read from other Jukwaa people, who would know better on the subject, Miguna would not be equalled to those who took plum jobs while the real fighters were shoved aside to rot. Buke would not fit the latter group either. Those who came from the sides of the oppressor to take plum jobs people like Eliud Mahihu, who would scout forests in an helicopter, loundspeaker in hand, asking Mau Mau fighters to surrender because it was the smart thing to do ... because it was foolish to fight Britain with all her artillary ... He would go on to assure them that they would not be bothered by the imperial government if they surrendered on that note. Then those who took him by his word would find Mahihu's copatriots waiting, and from there they would experience a life quite contrary to what the man in the copter had promised them. Mahihu went on to become PC after the war. The fighters on the other hand got shunned, jailed, killed, and humiliated in all ways imaginable. Neither Buke nor Miguna can be paralleled to Mahihu, the boot licker who ends up fattening on the blood of those he molested during the war. Neither of them can be equalled to the Mau Mau veterans either, who either fell into the snares of the Mahihus, or who waited in vain for their recognation after a sustained and successful noble assault against the imperialist. Strangely I sense that those retired soldiers are being insulted in Buke's attempt to insult Miguna.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2010 0:55:55 GMT 3
IS THIS HUMILITY? just wonder ...As well, legend has it that my nimble tongue and potent brain have conspired to produce a legion of successes, many of which like with all success, is rarely spoken about, mentioned or discussed. That is the nature of life and I have humbly accepted its verdict. History, however, will record my contributions more accurately, and hopefully, favourably... jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=612
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Post by tnk on Jan 21, 2010 8:25:04 GMT 3
TNK, seems you and I are getting the same sense or at least closely related sense of this. But there is a distinction to be made about the groups of fighters we perceive here ... Those who came from the sides of the oppressor to take plum jobs people like Eliud Mahihu.... Then those who took him by his word would find Mahihu's copatriots waiting, and from there they would experience a life quite contrary to what the man in the copter had promised them. Mahihu went on to become PC after the war. The fighters on the other hand got shunned, jailed, killed, and humiliated in all ways imaginable. Neither Buke nor Miguna can be paralleled to Mahihu, the boot licker who ends up fattening on the blood of those he molested during the war... agreed mank. the thrust of my argument is that the spoils of war are generally speaking unfairly distributed and typically those most militant get the least. kibaki is seated on a chair through a process/revolution that he scoffed at as cutting a mugumo tree with a razor blade. most of those that were fed a daily diet of tear-gas and whips are currently scrounging for bread crumbs -- side note on that mahihu fellow, i recall sometime in the mid 80's or 90's my memory fails me a little but there was this humongous rally by moi to raise funds for the handicapped. some significantly large amount was raised of which mahihu was in charge. then there was a long period of silence where no one knew where the funds were placed. at about that time a certain building popped up near milimani claimed to be owned by the mahihu. many do not remember this but that was the first large scale/high profile building to collapse and bury quite a number of workers. it was horrific. many claimed it was karma kicking back due to pocketing or misuse of funds for the disadvantaged. i recall this building had an unusual approach, at the time. most multi-storeyed buildings of the time would basically add complete floor by floor going up. this building they laid or stacked up all the floor slabs up to the 4th or 3rd floor with basically no built up external or internal walls. the slabs collapsed neatly on top of each other like layers of pancake burying i cannot recall how many workers i think it was 80 there was no attempt at rescue that i recall, there was simply no chance at the time pple wondered why moi never went for the man's jugular thats when the previously hush hush whispers of how mahihu was instrumental in moi's ascension to power turned to common talk. to be honest the real details of some of these events are too fuzzy for me so i can only recall snatches of this or that cant even remember whether it was rumor or fact ( i mean the talk of funds misuse, etc, the building however is fact ) anyhow after about 8-9 months after the hubbub quieted down the building resumed and later to change its name from whatever it had been called to i think what its now called liaison house. it was to remain vacant for quite a while due to the double stigma (funds misuse, plus dead workers in total disregard of safety. also rumored at the time they were "state workers" dont recall if it was prisoners or MoW)
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Post by politicalmaniac on Jan 21, 2010 21:01:50 GMT 3
Well well well,
Wafula certainly knows which side of his bread is buttered, and this piece he allegedly wrote, stinks as if it was actually written by those two clowns who author pieces for Judas KM. They reek of shoddiness kabisa.
AO, this sentence below, that you wrote, summarizes what OO has buttressed in his contributions. And BTW make sure you jot down your memories, even in an haphazard sequence, it will be easier to sort and write them down in an Auto Bio.
...."Wafula Buke has been through a lot of state repression. He was locked up at Naivasha Maximum for a while and terribly tortured. He stood his ground and later sued the state and was compensated with peanuts. He is a great Kenyan patriot but I doubt he needs to justify his efforts by diminishing Miguna's. ...."
As seen in the responses in this thread, its crystal clear where clear minded folks lie on the issue.
Wafula is clearly wrong.
The only lonely voice backing Wafula's shameful attacks here has "personal issues" with a MM. Its not clear what issues these are, he just happens to hate and villify, a man who has hasnt met, doesnt know, haja kula mbuzi yake, but the dude carries in his heart, gobs of green peer envy.
As one jukwaaist put it above, where are Wafula's opinions on the pressing issues of the land? Where does he stand on mau? Katiba? IDPs etcetera? What effort has he made to be part of the solutuion and not an obstructionist force?
After all, he is in the inner sanctums of power, just like MM!
Why is he spending so much effort on ad hominem attacks on MM? If MM is lionizing himself why is this so very frustrating to Wafula to the extent that he 'writes' that op-ed disparaging MM? Who exactly is STOPPING WAFULA FROM LIONIZING HIMSELF and playing up his street cred? Why doesnt he - Wafula, just take issue with the facts MM has brought up time and again, and challenge them on merit and then let us, the readers decide, instead of engaging in personality attacks? hiyo ina saidia nani?
Its so transparent what is going on here and I am amazed that no one has picked up on this. In order to cut down MM to size attack his strengths! This is classic Rovian strategy! And who best to initiate this shameful swiftboating but a fellow comrade in arms like Wafula? ruto cant do it - he was in bed with the torturers. So was Judas KM. And a host of other mafians now in power. The best weapon to use is a man who suffered terribly under that regime, and Wafula fits the bill best!
Shame on him!
Kwa nini asi kule bila bitterness to MM, who is doing such a swell job? No one is stopping Wafula from making his contributions to the present struggle, no one at all. And if this is the best he can do, disparage MM, rather than solve actual problems, then I must review my standing of him.
And BTW, Wafula I am told, is not the actual PA to ruto running his calender etc, but just one of them, a glorified hanger on, an errand guy of sorts, who has some access, but he is now a tool, a pawn, in the ruto wars.
Disgusting!
Wafula will go through the meat grinder that atomizes political tools working for corrupt cabals, but when he gets his moral compass right he will do the right thing. And he will deserve some compassion and forgiveness.
But right now his silly personal attacks have to be fought off, with all the aggression, that needs to mustered. He cant be allowed to gather moss and start the annihilation of R by proxy - chop the feet and hope to get to the head - who is R.
No freaking way!
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Jan 22, 2010 10:07:55 GMT 3
Mr Buke
I have followed with admiration your fight against the tyranny of Moi to which your paid dearly, however, I know history will be kind to you. When you were a leader of SONU, I was High School student and when I joined UoN, albeit for a short time, you were no longer there. In my view, you have earned your voice in the liberation and can say what you will and take whatever stand you admire in the political discourse unveiling in Kenya today. I am in no position to judge you. What I admire about you, is that you decided to work with someone not from your tribe unlike your 'comrades' who ended up working for their 'tribal' leaders. As for your views about one, Miguna, I am in no state to comment. As for the negative comments I read here in Jukwaa about you, all I hope for is that you remain true to yourself and your dreams, for many out there will stifle you in the hope of reaching their land of Canaan. As a postscript, to me Jukwaa is synonymous with jaluo.com with a good dose of nyatiti. God bless, wishing you well.
Sadik
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Post by nereah on Jan 22, 2010 11:50:30 GMT 3
As a postscript, to me Jukwaa is synonymous with jaluo.com with a good dose of nyatiti. sadik? hujambo kaka?sorry for nitpicking but is jukwaa really synonymous with jaluo.com? is it?
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Post by omundu on Jan 22, 2010 16:50:40 GMT 3
So sadik. Are you implying that people who frequent and comment on this here Jukwaa are of a certain ethnic group? what a laugh. And if so, does that include you.
Are you trying to say that whenever people think or ration in a certain way, they have to have come from a specific ethnic grouping? Help me out Sadiq. I am struggling to understand you.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jan 22, 2010 19:06:55 GMT 3
omundu
Sadik's tribal comments have become part of his main offerings in jukwaa. I have no idea where he thinks he is going with that. Nobody has stopped him from setting his own forum and to the best of my knowledge nobody puts a gun on his head to come to jukwaa.
Personally I don't need Sadik to tell me who Buke is and I doubt Buke needs Sadik to tell him who some of us are. I have been with Buke in all sorts of situations and I don't recall seeing Sadik there so he can keep his lame lectures to himself.
I think Oloo approached the issue with a lot of maturity and actually talked with both Buke and Miguna and the matter was resolved in a very sensible manner as opposed to tribal flame throwers who add no value at all to the discussion and who think tribal mischief is some form of mature politics. It is not.
This idea that someone working with another of a different tribe is somehow the measure of their patriotism sounds silly to me. Opiyo a luo was the chief torturer at Nyayo House. He was working with Moi a Kalenjin. So what does that make Opiyo?
Buke as I said is Kenyan patriot and he is free to work with anybody he so chooses. That in itself means nothing. And Buke of all people knows that very well. Buke probably knows Ruto more than anybody else. So if he can tell us the great things Ruto is doing I will be prepared to listen very keenly and certainly not because he is from a different tribe from Ruto's. That is nonsense to me.
But we welcome everybody in Jukwaa, particularly the Sadiks, otherwise Jukwaa would be very boring. It is the diversity of opinion that makes Jukwaa interesting. But that doesn't mean we don't tell each other off. I know I am pretty guilty of that. But that is me. Take it or leave it.
adongo
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Jan 22, 2010 20:20:13 GMT 3
Adongo
I say it as it is, like it or not. When your kith and kin were pouring insults on Wafula Buke, you were stomp, yet here you are yapping about comradeship. Hypocrite!
I said I do not know the man, neither did I claim he was my cham, but that does not stop me from calling hypocrites like you to task.
You seem to make a habit of accusing me of tribalism simply to draw attention away from yourself and in the process attract your hounds to try and tear me apart but your mission have failed miserably. When put under spotlight, you jump with accusation of tribalism. When it became clear your support for the inclusion of both the president and prime minister in the constitution was mainly in order for your Raila to sail easily to the presidency without staunch competition who you hoped will be distracted towards the premiership, you drew the tribalist card.
Rest assured I say what I want to say without fear and will never be cowed. Feel free to call your dogs, anytime. I will never support anything because Adongo the famous political prisoner says so. Live with it, I worship no one.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jan 22, 2010 20:50:47 GMT 3
Sadik
I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you if that is what you want. All I said was that there is no evidence that you know Buke better than anybody here and I don't see why I should take any lectures from you about yes, my good comrade Wafuka Buke. I know Buke more than I know you, if I know you at all. What have you done with him (Buke) or you think cheer leading counts? What makes you more qualified to tell me about Buke? You joined the campus after Buke, what did you do there to support the things Buke went to jail for? Obviously you were an adult then.
I was among the first to actually respond to Buke's piece on this very thread where I expressed the fact that this was unnecessary public exchange between two comrades who know each other very well. You can read it again and see what I said and keep the sanctimonious nonsense to yourself before you jump around as the sole defender of Wafula Buke.
Read my posts on this thread. I have made it very clear that Buke's patriotism and sacrifices for the nation are unquestionable. So what new thing are you telling me apart from trying to attack jukwaa where nobody forces you to come? And you think we should just let that slide by? I don't think so. Nobody here has attacked Buke's tribe, even if some attacks were misguided in my opinion. So where did this tribe thing come from? And this is not the first time you are posting these tribal stuff. Last time you tried the same we told what we thought about your views on that topic. You can be sure the next time we will do the same.
This whole discussion had taken a fairly positive angle after Oloo's timely intervention until you jumped in with your tribal stuff and now you want to drag the thread back into unnecessary tribal flames to satisfy whatever interests you are serving. Buke himself read the views expressed here when Oloo gave them to him. He promised to give his response to Oloo which Oloo promised to make available to Jukwaa. I am going to take that more seriously than whatever you cover up in the tribal angle you brought here today.
This is the last harsh words I am going to exchange with you today. I am trying to be in a good mood. I will be taking my boy to his soccer match and usually when I am in a good mood they win. So I will keep it that way.
But you can say anything you want I will respond tomorrow. Good luck.
adongo
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Post by politicalmaniac on Jan 22, 2010 22:19:37 GMT 3
AO Reality based discussion is a difficult proposition with folks like the wakili from Rift valley above, who are blatant intellectual liars. They stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the intellectual dissonance in their cerebral circuits.
Wafula is a fellow you know very well, and your measured response to his bizarre anti MM diatribe, coupled with OOs on the ground report speaks volumes of how with good faith, and honesty, both you have approached this sad subject, in an attempt to defuse it. Its obvious Wafula's benefactors are up to this attempt to create a chasm within the progressive movement.
Unlike you, I know Wafula in a peripheral manner, I met him briefly during his hey days in campo, and his kins folks in the aftermath of his imprisonment, and release when I was on my way to a trip in TZ and then UG. We share friends, some alive some gone, including the young man who was probably the youngest cabinet minister ever, this, while still in campo. Though Wafula was anti the kipkorios regime, they were still friends with this guy and thats how I met him actually, but briefly.
You pointed out a very interesting fact which the Wakili sadly cannot rebut. The Wakili is now currently making hay with ruto, a man who was as pro kipkorios as anyone. The same kipkorios jailed and tortured Wafula, and tortured you too. Was this wakili tortured? NO, but now suddenly he wants to cannonize Wafula, while tearing down MM who suffered under kipkorios. This makes little sense - but not to THEM! They dont care about facts and the truth!
You and Wafula were comrades. But the Wakili was no where to be seen during those tough times. Yet they want to diminish MMs contribution to the liberation wars and battles. Kwani yeye amefanya nini? What did he do to stem kipkorios's assault on our liberties other than drink milk and yell hallelujah?
Its only recently, that with Wafula joining ruto, and the wakili already in that camp, that now he, the wakili, comes out of the wood shed, to throw jabs at you. Why? simply because you may have differed with some of what Wafula wrote about MM. MM has helped erased the celestial halo around ruto's head, but with ruto being the Wakili's benefactor,ruto's perceived political enemies are the Wakili's too. Project ruto feeds the guy, and the Wakili has hedged his bets that ruto will feed him even more scraps from the National cake should ruto seize power. Therein lies the problem !!.
But again, they lack ammunition to hit back at MM. There is no one who wields the pen with such aplomb, such clarity, and is so devastating with the truth like MM, in the ruto or Judas KM camp.
They have no one with such a powerful mind, who has lived through the history of Kanu oppression, who has the intellectual stamina to crystallize the story in historical and current context, like MM. They have NO ONE!.
So the best they can do is co opt a comrade to MM, a comrade with enough or equivalent moral heft, to throw barbs at MM. No one else in their camp can do that. Not ruto, he of the then YK infamy, not the Wakili who was most probably still climbing the Mt of Knowledge courtesy of kipkorios 'reforms' and and not Judas KM the namba kipkorios apologist.
Its frustrating to attempt to shed light to these dishonest nattering nabobs of negativity.
But the battle continues.
The truth always wins out - just ask ruto about his former benefactor kipkorios, who stole land and is now confronted with the uncomfortable truth, leaking out moja kwa moja, pole pole.
What I would again counsel MM is this. Keep cool. Be safe, stay alert, hawa majambazi have no conscience. And please MM, dont go into the mud bath that ruto, and his protégés the wakili and Wafula are busy swimming in.
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Jan 23, 2010 0:01:21 GMT 3
AO Reality based discussion is a difficult proposition with folks like the wakili from Rift valley above, who are blatant intellectual liars. They stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the intellectual dissonance in their cerebral circuits. Wafula is a fellow you know very well, and your measured response to his bizarre anti MM diatribe, coupled with OOs on the ground report speaks volumes of how with good faith, and honesty, both you have approached this sad subject, in an attempt to defuse it. Its obvious Wafula's benefactors are up to this attempt to create a chasm within the progressive movement. Unlike you, I know Wafula in a peripheral manner, I met him briefly during his hey days in campo, and his kins folks in the aftermath of his imprisonment, and release when I was on my way to a trip in TZ and then UG. We share friends, some alive some gone, including the young man who was probably the youngest cabinet minister ever, this, while still in campo. Though Wafula was anti the kipkorios regime, they were still friends with this guy and thats how I met him actually, but briefly. You pointed out a very interesting fact which the Wakili sadly cannot rebut. The Wakili is now currently making hay with ruto, a man who was as pro kipkorios as anyone. The same kipkorios jailed and tortured Wafula, and tortured you too. Was this wakili tortured? NO, but now suddenly he wants to cannonize Wafula, while tearing down MM who suffered under kipkorios. This makes little sense - but not to THEM! They dont care about facts and the truth! You and Wafula were comrades. But the Wakili was no where to be seen during those tough times. Yet they want to diminish MMs contribution to the liberation wars and battles. Kwani yeye amefanya nini? What did he do to stem kipkorios's assault on our liberties other than drink milk and yell hallelujah? Its only recently, that with Wafula joining ruto, and the wakili already in that camp, that now he, the wakili, comes out of the wood shed, to throw jabs at you. Why? simply because you may have differed with some of what Wafula wrote about MM. MM has helped erased the celestial halo around ruto's head, but with ruto being the Wakili's benefactor,ruto's perceived political enemies are the Wakili's too. Project ruto feeds the guy, and the Wakili has hedged his bets that ruto will feed him even more scraps from the National cake should ruto seize power. Therein lies the problem !!. But again, they lack ammunition to hit back at MM. There is no one who wields the pen with such aplomb, such clarity, and is so devastating with the truth like MM, in the ruto or Judas KM camp. They have no one with such a powerful mind, who has lived through the history of Kanu oppression, who has the intellectual stamina to crystallize the story in historical and current context, like MM. They have NO ONE!. So the best they can do is co opt a comrade to MM, a comrade with enough or equivalent moral heft, to throw barbs at MM. No one else in their camp can do that. Not ruto, he of the then YK infamy, not the Wakili who was most probably still climbing the Mt of Knowledge courtesy of kipkorios 'reforms' and and not Judas KM the namba kipkorios apologist. Its frustrating to attempt to shed light to these dishonest nattering nabobs of negativity. But the battle continues. The truth always wins out - just ask ruto about his former benefactor kipkorios, who stole land and is now confronted with the uncomfortable truth, leaking out moja kwa moja, pole pole. What I would again counsel MM is this. Keep cool. Be safe, stay alert, hawa majambazi have no conscience. And please MM, dont go into the mud bath that ruto, and his protégés the wakili and Wafula are busy swimming in. politcalmanic Kweli nduguye kizungu ilikuja Kenya na meli. Tafadhali sana naomba ukinijibu jaribu kutumia kiswahili au kiluhya kwani kizungu yako kaka haieleweki.
asante
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Post by einstein on Jan 23, 2010 2:00:38 GMT 3
AO Reality based discussion is a difficult proposition with folks like the wakili from Rift valley above, who are blatant intellectual liars. They stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the intellectual dissonance in their cerebral circuits. Wafula is a fellow you know very well, and your measured response to his bizarre anti MM diatribe, coupled with OOs on the ground report speaks volumes of how with good faith, and honesty, both you have approached this sad subject, in an attempt to defuse it. Its obvious Wafula's benefactors are up to this attempt to create a chasm within the progressive movement. Unlike you, I know Wafula in a peripheral manner, I met him briefly during his hey days in campo, and his kins folks in the aftermath of his imprisonment, and release when I was on my way to a trip in TZ and then UG. We share friends, some alive some gone, including the young man who was probably the youngest cabinet minister ever, this, while still in campo. Though Wafula was anti the kipkorios regime, they were still friends with this guy and thats how I met him actually, but briefly. You pointed out a very interesting fact which the Wakili sadly cannot rebut. The Wakili is now currently making hay with ruto, a man who was as pro kipkorios as anyone. The same kipkorios jailed and tortured Wafula, and tortured you too. Was this wakili tortured? NO, but now suddenly he wants to cannonize Wafula, while tearing down MM who suffered under kipkorios. This makes little sense - but not to THEM! They dont care about facts and the truth! You and Wafula were comrades. But the Wakili was no where to be seen during those tough times. Yet they want to diminish MMs contribution to the liberation wars and battles. Kwani yeye amefanya nini? What did he do to stem kipkorios's assault on our liberties other than drink milk and yell hallelujah? Its only recently, that with Wafula joining ruto, and the wakili already in that camp, that now he, the wakili, comes out of the wood shed, to throw jabs at you. Why? simply because you may have differed with some of what Wafula wrote about MM. MM has helped erased the celestial halo around ruto's head, but with ruto being the Wakili's benefactor,ruto's perceived political enemies are the Wakili's too. Project ruto feeds the guy, and the Wakili has hedged his bets that ruto will feed him even more scraps from the National cake should ruto seize power. Therein lies the problem !!. But again, they lack ammunition to hit back at MM. There is no one who wields the pen with such aplomb, such clarity, and is so devastating with the truth like MM, in the ruto or Judas KM camp. They have no one with such a powerful mind, who has lived through the history of Kanu oppression, who has the intellectual stamina to crystallize the story in historical and current context, like MM. They have NO ONE!. So the best they can do is co opt a comrade to MM, a comrade with enough or equivalent moral heft, to throw barbs at MM. No one else in their camp can do that. Not ruto, he of the then YK infamy, not the Wakili who was most probably still climbing the Mt of Knowledge courtesy of kipkorios 'reforms' and and not Judas KM the namba kipkorios apologist. Its frustrating to attempt to shed light to these dishonest nattering nabobs of negativity. But the battle continues. The truth always wins out - just ask ruto about his former benefactor kipkorios, who stole land and is now confronted with the uncomfortable truth, leaking out moja kwa moja, pole pole. What I would again counsel MM is this. Keep cool. Be safe, stay alert, hawa majambazi have no conscience. And please MM, dont go into the mud bath that ruto, and his protégés the wakili and Wafula are busy swimming in. politcalmanic Kweli nduguye kizungu ilikuja Kenya na meli. Tafadhali sana naomba ukinijibu jaribu kutumia kiswahili au kiluhya kwani kizungu yako kaka haieleweki.
asanteWhat the fuack is this about Sadik lecturing people on the use of the Queen's language? Sadik, please re-read your own posts right here on the platform and it might just occur to you how horrible your English grammar is!! Jesus and that when you live and work in the UK!! Please stop crapping all over the place!
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Post by omundu on Jan 23, 2010 4:01:39 GMT 3
The headline of this post was about miguna and his contribution, or not, to the civil service. I feel that it has divulged from its basic tenet and has been dragged into a tribal and lingual discussion. ( not my forte)
That said, Sadiq, i personally, would hold my hand up and state that i happen to have a surname that is shared with the talked about Wafula. But that doesnt mean that i will blindly say "aye" to whatever he or she states and take it as biblical truth. I have my own opinions to the communique he penned on Miguna and i still believe that such emotional rants were unwarrabted irregardless of his tribal or clan closeness to me. ( same applies to Wakoli, Wetangula, Wamalwa e.t.c)
We are just trying to have rational discussions here Sadique, without judging the basis of ones rationale to his tribal grouping... I have a lot more to say, but i digress, lest i drag this discussion into a direction i not intend.
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Post by kenyamoja on Jan 23, 2010 7:00:12 GMT 3
It seems to me that Miguna Miguna has become the 3rd rail of Jukwaa politics (after Raila and Obama). It amazes me that in most Jukwaaites' eyes these guys can say no wrong, do no wrong and their wisdom is unquestionable. That MM's defenders in Jukwaa have chalked Buke's opinion to envy and jealousy is laughable. There are many Kenyans (including right here in Jukwaa) with impeccable human rights record and an intellectual capacity to match who see no need to publicize said record and/or academic credentials. MM's problem has always been his bloated ego (witness this gem "I forgive them for they know not what they are doing" - what?). As far as Sadik's views on Jukwaa are concerned, I will not go that far but it is becoming clear that Jukwaa is a pro-ODM/Raila forum (Jukwaa ina wenyewe?). Any dissenting view is largely treated with disdain (if you are not with us, you are against us?) as if people cannot be pro-Raila/ODM but with differing opinions. Lastly, as a Kenyan and I do not care for Kibaki or Raila, PNU or ODM, as long as change is effected in Kenya that will uplift and benefit Kenyans (it does not necessarily have to be an ODM-driven kind of change).
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Post by tiskie on Jan 23, 2010 7:15:46 GMT 3
AO Reality based discussion is a difficult proposition with folks like the wakili from Rift valley above, who are blatant intellectual liars. They stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the intellectual dissonance in their cerebral circuits. Wafula is a fellow you know very well, and your measured response to his bizarre anti MM diatribe, coupled with OOs on the ground report speaks volumes of how with good faith, and honesty, both you have approached this sad subject, in an attempt to defuse it. Its obvious Wafula's benefactors are up to this attempt to create a chasm within the progressive movement. Unlike you, I know Wafula in a peripheral manner, I met him briefly during his hey days in campo, and his kins folks in the aftermath of his imprisonment, and release when I was on my way to a trip in TZ and then UG. We share friends, some alive some gone, including the young man who was probably the youngest cabinet minister ever, this, while still in campo. Though Wafula was anti the kipkorios regime, they were still friends with this guy and thats how I met him actually, but briefly. You pointed out a very interesting fact which the Wakili sadly cannot rebut. The Wakili is now currently making hay with ruto, a man who was as pro kipkorios as anyone. The same kipkorios jailed and tortured Wafula, and tortured you too. Was this wakili tortured? NO, but now suddenly he wants to cannonize Wafula, while tearing down MM who suffered under kipkorios. This makes little sense - but not to THEM! They dont care about facts and the truth! You and Wafula were comrades. But the Wakili was no where to be seen during those tough times. Yet they want to diminish MMs contribution to the liberation wars and battles. Kwani yeye amefanya nini? What did he do to stem kipkorios's assault on our liberties other than drink milk and yell hallelujah? Its only recently, that with Wafula joining ruto, and the wakili already in that camp, that now he, the wakili, comes out of the wood shed, to throw jabs at you. Why? simply because you may have differed with some of what Wafula wrote about MM. MM has helped erased the celestial halo around ruto's head, but with ruto being the Wakili's benefactor,ruto's perceived political enemies are the Wakili's too. Project ruto feeds the guy, and the Wakili has hedged his bets that ruto will feed him even more scraps from the National cake should ruto seize power. Therein lies the problem !!. But again, they lack ammunition to hit back at MM. There is no one who wields the pen with such aplomb, such clarity, and is so devastating with the truth like MM, in the ruto or Judas KM camp. They have no one with such a powerful mind, who has lived through the history of Kanu oppression, who has the intellectual stamina to crystallize the story in historical and current context, like MM. They have NO ONE!. So the best they can do is co opt a comrade to MM, a comrade with enough or equivalent moral heft, to throw barbs at MM. No one else in their camp can do that. Not ruto, he of the then YK infamy, not the Wakili who was most probably still climbing the Mt of Knowledge courtesy of kipkorios 'reforms' and and not Judas KM the namba kipkorios apologist. Its frustrating to attempt to shed light to these dishonest nattering nabobs of negativity. But the battle continues. The truth always wins out - just ask ruto about his former benefactor kipkorios, who stole land and is now confronted with the uncomfortable truth, leaking out moja kwa moja, pole pole. What I would again counsel MM is this. Keep cool. Be safe, stay alert, hawa majambazi have no conscience. And please MM, dont go into the mud bath that ruto, and his protégés the wakili and Wafula are busy swimming in. politcalmanic Kweli nduguye kizungu ilikuja Kenya na meli. Tafadhali sana naomba ukinijibu jaribu kutumia kiswahili au kiluhya kwani kizungu yako kaka haieleweki.
asanteSadik Shame on you ati trying to bring your arrogance here.. if you are such a refined and intelligent guy the way you seem to imply here !! then what you have said to Politcalmanic is so sleazy! and unacceptable read between the lines... ati write in Kiluyha or kiswahili.. are you for real or just being dumb? Don't bring your nonsense from mashada and kumekucha here.. tribal slurs and abuses.. on Jukwaa members respect each other, the administrator should block you from posting here if all post is abuses "matusi's" on other members! ala!!! Kwani Jukwaa set rule that all members must write in the queens language? bure Kabisa !!!if you are not able to read what is posted here by Jukwaa members then take yourself elsewhere!
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