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Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 21, 2006 0:13:54 GMT 3
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Post by aeichener on Feb 21, 2006 0:49:54 GMT 3
That is a very good article indeed, OO - thank you for linking us to it!
I just hope that not just us, but also important foreign decision-makers suchas Walter Lindner will read it when he now assumes his new post in Kenya.
Alexander
PS: I will modify my statement. The article is not very good; it is brilliant (as long as Onyango-Obbo limits himself to what he really knows, Kenya and Africa; the overseas comparisons badly failed).
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Post by miguna on Feb 21, 2006 1:35:26 GMT 3
The same (Obbo's) piece had also appeared in both the Sunday Nation & East African (last month). Obbo is a good and polished writer. But he is better at describing events rather than providing insightful reflections. He is, however, usually a third-rate analyst. And he has done it again here, no doubt.
Whereas I tend to agree with his general analysis [how he traces the background of the ODM win to the 1980's democratic movements], I believe that Obbo is way off on how history may judge Kibaki.
Neither Obbo nor yours truly are capable of foretelling history. Nonetheless, Kibaki's history is being written right now - by commentators, analysts and ordinary Kenyans. And that history is pretty bleak. It is a history of betrayals, unfulfilled promises and expections, of frustrated dreams and of massive lootings.
To me, that is not a "kind" treatment by history. I'm not sure whom Obbo thinks will write a different history for Kibaki. But then again, Obbo writes for the Nation Media Group. I'm not at all surprised.
[unedited]
-Miguna-
PS: On reflection, I think Obbo was also off on when the democratic movements that propelled ODM to victory started. I think they had their gestations in the 1966 [Limuru Kanu Conference]! --MM-
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Post by mossad on Feb 21, 2006 1:43:50 GMT 3
I found that article by Onyango Obbo to be informative and quite right. I also wish he could have pointed out that unlike other africans who find it fit to take arms aganist their govts, Kenyans were patient and persistent in their wait for change and progress which took time to come around but now seem to be progressing. I believe, just like Mr. Obbo, kibaki will be judged favorably by future historians for his style of leadership and especially in advancing democracy and freedoms.
Mossad.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 21, 2006 7:20:56 GMT 3
Kibaki's performance is pathetic and no varnish will camoflage his ineptness. We are where we are INSPITE of him.
I mean are we to give plaudits for quote, increasing the democratic space, unquote? isnt this what was and is expected of him?
We as a nation are expected to forge fowards, and no amount of sugar coating will change the legacy of this pathetic president!
As Miguna stated above history is being recorded now and surely based on these records historians will judge the fella. Unless you live in eskimo land its almost unanimous that his performance has been wanting!
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 21, 2006 10:11:21 GMT 3
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Post by kamalet on Feb 21, 2006 13:25:44 GMT 3
Is it not strange that Charles Onyango Obbo who writes his opinions in definitive 1st class media publications is described as a third-rate analyst whilst the person actually branding him so claims to be a "first-rate" analyst writing for third-rate media publications?
Charles' article was an objective piece of journalism!
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Post by aeichener on Feb 21, 2006 14:22:55 GMT 3
Strange? Not really. Telling and insightful, maybe, as concerns the person who claimed it.
Alexander
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Post by roughrider on Feb 21, 2006 19:25:05 GMT 3
Onyango Obbo says:
“My own sense is that when the history of Kenya is written in the years to come, Mwai Kibaki will probably be judged more favorably than current events suggest. Whether through his proverbial laidback style, poor judgment, non-combative approach, or subtle calculation, he enabled Kenyan democracy to make its unpredictable erratic march forward.”
Onyango Obbo is wrong.
History cannot credit Mwai Kibaki for moving democracy in Kenyan forward. In fact, history will lament lost opportunities in entrenching a culture of political alliances and coalition building. Opportunities Mr Kibaki had, but trashed. Mr. Kibaki’s trashing of the MOU, ineptitude in managing the constitutional review process and mis-firing the whole anti-corruption crusade will earn him harsh judgments in history.
If we were to use Mr. Obbo’s rather weak analysis then we should say that Moi will be judged more favorably because he made a wrong call in supporting Uhuru Kenyatta? We all know that is a ridiculous proposition. But essentially that is what Mr. Obbo says. Historians will tell you this; history is first and foremost about winners and conquerors, then losers and the vanquished are mentioned in that context.
The democratic gains we gained, have little to do with Mwai Kibaki: rather they are the direct result of the implosion and defeat of Kanu of KANU in 2002 which made the people realize just how much power they had.
As it is often remarked ‘Kama yule aliyejiita ndume tulimngoa, nana atatushinda?’
However, if history will be generous enough to credit any single person with opening up democracy, then that person, in my view, is Raila Odinga. The parties and the battles the Obbo talks about as having vanquished Kanu and the banana are clearly Mr. Odinga’s parties and battles.
I don’t think history will congratulate Kibaki for being weak enough to allow democracy. Rather it will thank Raila for being strong enough (whatever his intentions) to fight battles that allowed democracy.
RR
Postscript: I rather prefer to judge writers on an article by article basis. I also make distinction between writing well and good analysis. Obbo almost invariably writes well, sometimes with brilliant analysis, often what he writes requires no analysis at all, and on occasions such as this one Mr. Obbo has combined good writing with sloppy analysis.
More importantly for a journalist, one should try to avoid revisionism especially when the part of history that is being discussed is still in the making!
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Post by adongo12345 on Feb 21, 2006 19:27:46 GMT 3
Kamale:What exactly do you mean by "third rate publication"? What is the criteria? Is it the volume of the readership? The circulation? The quality of paper used? The graphics? The ads? The pay for the writers or the size of the office for the publication? I don't suppose you ever had the opportunity to read a publication like Sechaba published for decades by the ANC in the height of the war against apartheid? Did you? How about the "African Communist" published by the South African Communist Party during the same time? Have you ever gotten a glance of that one. Or my all time favourite "Umsebenzi" also by the SACP.www.sacp.org.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=14&id=68&Itemid=77There is no chance you actually show my beloved paper "Sauti Ya Kamkunji" which I had the pleasure to edit during my campus days. What is my point? That some of the very finest publications in our continent, in terms of content, sense of history, quality of writers and the vision they debated and struggled with actually have been small almost unheard off and sometimes clandestine publications. If truth be said most mass circulation publications in Kenya and elsewhere are pretty mundane, timid filled with very unimaginative stuff. Here in Toronto, one of the largest Daily Publications with very fine "objective" writers is actually pure crap. I have no problems with Onyango Obbo, but please spare us the condescending attitude about who writes for "First Class" publications and who doesn't. Personally I doubt you could offer me any competent advice on what publication is First or second on my list. Obviously I have no interest in providing any such advice to you. Adongo
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Post by miguna on Feb 21, 2006 19:48:35 GMT 3
Kamau,
The "official" rags in Kenya today are the Nation Media Group's publications.
The best known rag is the Daily Nation and its sister publication, The Sunday Nation.
The Nation Media Group also owns the Daily Mirror in Uganda and the East African. Hence, Onyango-Obbo writes exclusively for the Nation Media Group.
More importantly - and this is the clincher - a writer's analytical skills are judged, not by the type of publications he os she writes for or in[i.e. the prominence, wealth or fame], but by the content of his or her analysis.
Fadists like to quote (and wear) things or people (or images of things) they consider prominent (or "cool") and believe that citing these as the basis of their presentations (or opinions) will be a substitute for analysis. But mere recitations (even of well known "authority") have never been considered substitutes for careful and detailed examinations [i.e. analysis].
I restricted my comments to Onyango Obbo's piece in question. I also made a general comment on his record. I do not recall making any comments on my own analytical abilities. Consequently, I can only view your sarcastic response as malicious.
In Onyango-Obbo's case, there is no doubt that he can write clearly. Describing events and circumstances are his strengths. The problem raised by me and others was on his analytical abilities. Writing clearly is "mechanical"; however, being able to examine in detail (i.e. analysis] is qualitively different.
Kamau, one does not have to be published - even by "rags like the Kenya Times" - to be considered a good analyst. There are millions of unpublished analytical genuises in Kenya and other parts of the world.
For instance, the late Professor Owuor Anyumba of the Literature Department of the University of Nairobi was reputed to be a rank higher than most of our most celebrated writers, yet he never actually published anything. The problem was that he was a perfectionist who could not stand seeing anything published if it was not perfect. His memographs - partricularly on Orature - are still available at the Universitry of Nairobi for those interested.
I hope that there is no confusion here.
[unedited]
-Miguna-
PS: Adongo, what a wonderful reminder! Like you, I was closely associated with SAUTI YA KAMUKUNJI, where I was the Managing Editor (1986-87). I have just noticed that one of my budding writers at the "Sauti" is imbedded right here in Jukwaa. That "rag" was for sure something else... [-MM]
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Post by pharlap on Feb 22, 2006 1:20:02 GMT 3
I havent reada all the responses, but i must mention that obbo introduces a new pattern of thought that is rational and not affected by the current corruption scandal hype that has gripped the whole country. While Kibaki may have his short-comings, he has done a lot to give kenyans the democratic space they need to express themselves. That is worth noting and hongera Bwana Kibaki. Now for some purging.
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Post by mossad on Feb 22, 2006 1:41:34 GMT 3
I don’t think history will congratulate Kibaki for being weak enough to allow democracy. Rather it will thank Raila for being strong enough (whatever his intentions) to fight battles that allowed democracy.
RR
Now RR, thats far from the trueth. Then if what you claim is something for us to go by, then what were the efforts of pple like Matiba, Rubia, Orengo and the likes who kept moi on his toes all that time. Please, keep of the facts straight.Note that Raila is among the many who suffered for democracy to progress in kenya.
Mossad.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2006 8:00:50 GMT 3
Hey "politicalmaniac"
You know "Eskimos" are very cleaver people particularly because they live in "Eskimo Land". You have to be smart to survive in the harsh environment that they have for thousands of years.
They certainly do not epitomise ignorance.
The origins of the term Eskimo is rooted in white racist conquest. They are the Inuit. This is the term that the the Inuit of Canadian prefer.
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Post by roughrider on Feb 22, 2006 8:20:15 GMT 3
Now RR, thats far from the trueth. Then if what you claim is something for us to go by, then what were the efforts of pple like Matiba, Rubia, Orengo and the likes who kept moi on his toes all that time. Please, keep of the facts straight.Note that Raila is among the many who suffered for democracy to progress in kenya. Mossad. But Mossad, did you not see how I began my line of thought? "However, if history will be generous enough to credit any single person with opening up democracy..." The word IF there is critical.
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Post by kamalet on Feb 22, 2006 10:56:56 GMT 3
Miguna,
You wrote:
"Obbo is a good and polished writer. But he is better at describing events rather than providing insightful reflections. He is, however, usually a third-rate analyst. And he has done it again here, no doubt."
You are the one that said the man is usually a third rate analyst...so surely it cannot just be this one piece as you now suggest. Do treat us with some honesty.
Note that I did not question your abilities either...only the publications that "publish" you which I am still convinced are third-rate!!! So you can sit in comfort knowing that I have not passed any judgement on your abilities as a writer not any other abilities as an analyst.
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Post by miguna on Feb 22, 2006 18:27:08 GMT 3
Kamau: So where did I say this, which you incorrectly attrributed to me? [see the underlined portions] Is it not strange that Charles Onyango Obbo who writes his opinions in definitive 1st class media publications is described as a third-rate analyst whilst the person actually branding him so claims to be a "first-rate analyst ? As for the use of the word "usually," I meant exactly what I said, and therefore stand by my as*sertion. We have carefully noted how adept you are at diverting attention, creating red herrings and ensuring that our focus on Kickback1 is sidetracked. Don't worry, we don't need your help to remove and consign him to permanent political oblivion. [unedited] -Miguna-
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 23, 2006 8:15:13 GMT 3
Now to summarize, Obbo's contention was that history may have a favorable view of the legacy of the current president.
This is a President who has pretty little postives/accomplishments to show for the last 3yrs in office. He will be remembered more for his MONUMENTAL failures. He has killed the spirit of the nation, lorded over the resurection of virulent tribalism, slept while coffers were looted, laid more emphasis in the well being of politicians rather than the common man.
He has pretty much destroyed our post 2002 vision.
So history will be kind to him? may history that MKM and their progeny will write!
Please, lets keep off this mantra that he "opened up"democratic space! Did he have an alternative?
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